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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-02-24

---Logopened Sat Feb 24 00:00:20 2018
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01:51<TrueBrain>yes, LordAro, sometimes people work and need sleep and that childish stuff :P
01:52<TrueBrain>the Rust bot is funny; it is a nice way to solve that master should always compile (and succeed in tests)
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05:48<Samu>how many times can I edit a topic?
05:49<TrueBrain>12 times
05:49<Samu>nah, can't be, it's already at 27
05:49<TrueBrain>file a bug report; should be 12
05:50<Samu>there was a forum, i think that had a limit :(
05:50<TrueBrain>in some existance, somewhere on the world wide web, it must hold true, that there was a forum, which had a limit
05:51<Samu> I'm updating this topic from time to time. Today was that time, I was only wondering if there's a limit
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05:54<Samu>wormnest, your ai finished
05:55<Samu>still need to uplaod screenshots
05:56<Wormnest>Thanks Samu, looks like it´s doing pretty good
05:57<Samu>after screenshots,i still have ships, aircraft and trains to test :( kinda boring to set everything up
05:57<Samu>i know ships will take forever :(
05:58<Wormnest>Oh well, it keeps you off the streets :p
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06:17<Samu>there are still players who don't know how to loan :(
06:24<Samu>i can see that the screenshot section is gonna be hard to navigate
06:24<Samu>if i keep adding
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07:27<TrueBrain>morning frosch123
07:27<TrueBrain>any comments will go
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07:29<LordAro>TrueBrain: gitlab isn't necessarily self-hosted
07:29<TrueBrain>I am aware
07:29<LordAro>also o/
07:30<Flygon>LordAro forever lives in my mind.
07:30<Flygon>It's that damned xkcd connection.
07:31<Flygon>Yeah I just realized I sounded creepy af sorry
07:41<TrueBrain>LordAro: I cannot imagine that is all you have to comment on it, so what gives? :)
07:42<LordAro>sorry, KSPing
07:42<LordAro>i'll take another look
07:43<TrueBrain>you were complaining it was not going quick enough here :P
07:46<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, the last point "server itself requires maintenace". You mean the HV, or what does it refer to?
07:47<TrueBrain>the physical server
07:47<@planetmaker>just curious: do we require more server power there, or what does need maintenance there?
07:47<TrueBrain>OS upgrade
07:48<@planetmaker>ok... yeah, HV upgrade
07:48<TrueBrain>we might want to move to other hardware soon-ish
07:48<TrueBrain>(it is .. 5 years old now?)
07:48<@planetmaker>dunno... about yeah
07:48<TrueBrain>and maybe worth considering, cloud
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07:48<TrueBrain>maybe not for the CF, but possibly for things like website, BaNaNaS, etc
07:48<TrueBrain>just so it becomes serverless
07:49<@planetmaker>cloud... isn't it just a fancy name for "a VM somewhere else"?
07:49<TrueBrain>serverless, is mainly the part of cloud I would be interested in
07:49<TrueBrain>just: here is some Python, you run it now
07:49<TrueBrain>here are some HTML files, you run it now
07:52<@planetmaker>you still need all the access we have now, don't you?
07:52<@planetmaker>Just curious... not sure I get how that is supposed to work :)
07:52<TrueBrain>what do you mean, 'access'?
07:52<TrueBrain>say you have a website, HTML, Javascript, and CSS
07:52<@planetmaker>to the management of the services
07:52<TrueBrain>do you care on what server it runs? What OS?
07:52<@planetmaker>no, I don't
07:52<TrueBrain>you just want something to host those files, so others can access it
07:52<TrueBrain>that is called serverless, in a nutshell
07:53<TrueBrain>so the "cloud" takes care of that shit for you
07:53<TrueBrain>including upgrades, maintaince, etc
07:53<TrueBrain>you just want high availability
07:53<TrueBrain>same goes for Python applications
07:53<@planetmaker>so... something like light-weight containers where several run parallel on the same machine - we just don't care about the machine
07:53<TrueBrain>I just want something to execute this Python 3.6 application
07:53<@planetmaker>just a separate login for us
07:53<TrueBrain>I dont care if it is 1 machine, or 100 machines
07:53<TrueBrain>I dont want to login to the machine
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07:54<TrueBrain>I just want it to be :)
07:54<@planetmaker>well, you need to modify your own website ;)
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07:54<TrueBrain>then you upload new files :)
07:54<TrueBrain>for example, AWS
07:54<TrueBrain>there you upload your files to S3
07:54<TrueBrain>you tell some fancy thing: if something hits this URL, serve this file
07:54<TrueBrain>if I want to update my file, I do so
07:54<TrueBrain>that is it
07:55<@planetmaker>ok, ty
07:55<@planetmaker>got it, I guess
07:55<TrueBrain>we are so used to worry about everything, from network connection, to location, to hardware, to OS, ...
07:55<TrueBrain>but nowedays, it is no longer important :)
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07:55<TrueBrain>and if AWS runs it on 10 machines, or on 1
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07:56<TrueBrain>if he runs it in France, or in USA
07:56<TrueBrain>who cares :D
07:56<TrueBrain>(in reality, it runs in many places, sort of :P)
07:58<TrueBrain>frosch123: difference between "1.7.2" and nightly are only the targets it runs for and the version it gets
07:58<TrueBrain>the path is identical :)
07:58<TrueBrain>you really want the CF to validate each PR, in general :)
07:59<TrueBrain>(the testing part)
07:59<frosch123>yes, but no publishing of binaries
08:00<@planetmaker>frosch123, compatibility also works for identical hashes iirc.
08:00<TrueBrain>frosch123: ack
08:00<TrueBrain>and we already support git for multiplayer
08:01<@planetmaker>just the version string needs to fit. And it needs to fit cross-platform. I recall there to be sometimes problems with different lengths of them at some stage - which declared them incompatible, but they were in fact built from the same source
08:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: tnx a lot for feedback :) Just a bit unsure what you mean about the FF .. do you mean: we should do FF, or: we shouldn't? I am not sure we understood each other there
08:03<frosch123>when pr are reviewed, usually you request changes. i would expect those changes to not be added on top, but to have the PR be rebased with adjusted commit contents
08:03<TrueBrain>that is exactly the choices you have :)
08:03<frosch123>so i expect PR to constantly get rebased
08:04<TrueBrain>some people make a new commit with the fixes, and squash it at the end
08:04<TrueBrain>others rebase
08:04<TrueBrain>personally I think for starters enforcing FF is a good thing for OpenTTD
08:04<TrueBrain>it is more "like SVN"
08:04<TrueBrain>but if you look at Rust, they went overboard with allowing different flows :)
08:04<TrueBrain>(and yes, I assumed all PRs are reviewed :P)
08:06<frosch123>squash-at-the-end is still a kind of rebase
08:07<TrueBrain>kinda; it mostly depends when the CI has a chance to do its validation
08:07<TrueBrain>before merge or after
08:08<TrueBrain>anyway, minor settings and stuff .. otherwise you agree with the idea?
08:09<frosch123>yes, put as much into the cloud as possible :)
08:09<@planetmaker>I guess we should do the same with the coop repos at some stage, too
08:09<TrueBrain>you also agree with my summarization of the two requests you put down? :D
08:09<frosch123>i also like the configuration of the farm (adding of jobs) via some vcs (if i got that right)
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08:10<TrueBrain>I want everything to be controlable via git, yes .. so anyone with access is in control
08:10<TrueBrain>and I would really like to be as much aspossible that you can run it on your local machine as well
08:11<frosch123>about the goals: i keep wondering about the purpose of a "single main stable branch"
08:11<TrueBrain>what else would you define as "official" OpenTTD?
08:11<frosch123>as i see it the players separate into different interest groups, which follow conflicting goals
08:11<TrueBrain>wouldnt that confuse a lot of players?
08:11<@planetmaker>well, players always had different interests, did they?
08:11<TrueBrain>(serious question; I do not know the answer)
08:12<frosch123>so i dream about "openttd for sandbox", "openttd for competive millenials", "openttd for wannabe economics students" :p
08:12<TrueBrain>this concept does allow that
08:12<frosch123>but i do not see a way to unify those goals into a single main branch anymore
08:12<TrueBrain>you just never promote any fork to be "the only one" :P
08:12<@planetmaker>Having a single "official" branch is good to keep the project focused. But with so few people contributing, that's become a pretty difficult thing
08:13<TrueBrain>possibly even demote the current trunk to be "official"
08:13<frosch123>TrueBrain: it depends on how people discover ottd
08:13<@planetmaker>It means to make decisions - and sticking somewhat to that one decision. Taking the lead. It's a hard and possibly harsh decision .But you never can satisfy everyone
08:13<frosch123>but as i see it, those who discover ottd via social networks already use inofficial clients
08:13<TrueBrain>that is very true
08:15<LordAro> might want to take a look at how openage guys do PRs as well
08:15<LordAro>they like to go way overboard, with style checkers, copyright checkers and everything else all at the CI level
08:16<LordAro>they made their own CI system to run it
08:16<LordAro>and they also "enforce" rebasing, which is much nicer IMO
08:16<TrueBrain>what is nice about FF, that your history is clean
08:16<LordAro>rebasing PRs*
08:16<TrueBrain>no stupid merge shit
08:16<LordAro>but equally, FF makes it clear which commits are connected to which PR/author
08:17<TrueBrain>but I am sure time will show a way :)
08:17<frosch123>LordAro: both sounds good to me :) i stopped reading some fs patches just because the diff started with 3 whitespace changes :p
08:17<LordAro>TrueBrain: e.g.
08:18<TrueBrain>it is so silly OpenTTD still uses manual reviews :P
08:18<TrueBrain>it is so old-fashioned :)
08:19<frosch123>to add to the "multiple branches" thing: at work i never have any issue to decide what is the right thing to do, because the software has a scientific correct thing to do. but in a game there are arbitrary decisions
08:20<TrueBrain>frosch123: any other active people that might have feedback on this?
08:21<TrueBrain>or shall we just start making it happen?
08:21<LordAro>might be an idea to put it on the forums?
08:21<LordAro>i have no idea what goes on there these days
08:21<@planetmaker>what would the forums contribute?
08:22<@planetmaker>what could they?
08:22<LordAro>well the people making all the "forks" that you think might have potential are there
08:23<frosch123>TrueBrain: michi_cc and peter1138 are both git fanboys
08:23<TrueBrain>LordAro: I think frosch123 should write some kind of manifesto about his ideas for OpenTTD
08:23<TrueBrain>that might be more valuable
08:23<frosch123>alberth is the only one i do not know about
08:23<TrueBrain>I just build on 2 pilars from that :)
08:23<LordAro>ah yeah, alberth hasn't been around
08:24<frosch123>LordAro: i have not read forums in half a year :)
08:24<@planetmaker>aye... Alberth should have a say, I guess, being the 2nd most active after frosch?
08:26<frosch123>TrueBrain: <- that used to be my manifesto for the stable branch. but it only works for people who know ttd from their childhood. i do not see anyone join based on that :)
08:27<TrueBrain>so extend on it? :)
08:27<TrueBrain>that can still stand ofc, but the thing following becomes more imrpotant now :)
08:35<TrueBrain>anyway, I will make some things happen on my side; mostly look into how to populate GitHub with both the right issues and the right commits/branches
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08:47-!-funnel is "funnel" on #mm #linuxfs #openttd #debian-glibc #debian-boot #smuxi #gcc #powerdns #debian-hurd #qemu #freedombox #ck #debian-ipv6 #pwmt #vcs-home #qtile #kvm #fish #ext4 #xen #sd #debian-it #gc-linux #logcheck #mci @#exvm @#cursive #antlr #acal #flect #igloo #tinc #colinux #cryptocat #davical
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08:47<Wolf01>Are we all again?
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08:47<TrueBrain>what is funny about this channel.. even after years (read: 10+), there are still ~100 people in here
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08:48<TrueBrain>andythenorth: go read ; let me know what you think :P
08:48<Wolf01>The nice part is that of those 100, the active ones are like 10-15
08:49*andythenorth reads
08:50<Wolf01>I've never seen some of them talking, and I'm here since 2004 plus or minus a month
08:50<TrueBrain>@seen Bjarni
08:50<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 20 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
08:50<TrueBrain>wen can always use DorpsGek to find out who never said anything :P
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08:55<andythenorth>ok so for main, PR -> CI -> build
08:55<andythenorth>also -> publish
08:56<TrueBrain>build and publish is optional from PR
08:57<andythenorth>so I can make forks that include my crypto-miner? o_O
08:57<TrueBrain>you can
08:57<andythenorth>and users will think it's 'official-ish'
08:57<TrueBrain>ish, yes
08:57<andythenorth>hmm, actually they don't believe NRT is official-ish
08:57<andythenorth>I had real hard time convincing people it wasn't a hokey fork
08:58<andythenorth>probably all fine
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09:02<andythenorth>TrueBrain: all looks good to me
09:02<andythenorth>I can't answer the git unknowns
09:02<TrueBrain>cool; tnx :)
09:02<TrueBrain>nah, we will figure that out :)
09:02<andythenorth>but I would like to help with website and Bananas rebuild
09:02<andythenorth>I don't see why website isn't mostly static tbh
09:02<andythenorth>it's not doing much
09:05<andythenorth>bananas seems too hard to work on afaict
09:05<andythenorth>frosch123 made a VM to at least make dev possible
09:05<andythenorth>but it seems a clunky way to dev / deploy
09:07<TrueBrain>yeah .. I would consider making it a cloud solution
09:07<TrueBrain>guess we need to email AWS what they can do for us :)
09:09<andythenorth>the challenge in web dev is always building the app :(
09:09<andythenorth>either for dev, or in production
09:15<TrueBrain>meh; a while ago I rebuild in Angular .. just to realise it demanded you have Javascript .. which is silly for a page like
09:16<TrueBrain>never got to it looking further into that
09:16<andythenorth>it's a solved problewm
09:16<andythenorth>just have to have the argument about which framework :P
09:16<andythenorth>there are 3 or 4 perfectly good python web frameworks
09:17<TrueBrain>I just said Angular :P
09:17<TrueBrain>nothing to do with Python :)
09:17<TrueBrain>the dynamic part was trivial :)
09:21<andythenorth>I don't javascript :P
09:21<andythenorth>it's kind of a principle
09:23<TrueBrain>that is why you TypeScript these days!
09:23<TrueBrain>for BaNaNaS itself Angular would be a really solid solution
09:23<TrueBrain>with a decent API behind it
09:23<TrueBrain>rewrite musa to use the API too
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09:24<TrueBrain>but like I said .. I see a lot of benefit for writing it in the cloud, but I guess we need to investigate that ;)
09:28<LordAro>TrueBrain: boo, angular
09:29<TrueBrain>and now with any valid argument?
09:29<LordAro>i dislike javascript
09:29<LordAro>its usage should be minimised
09:29<TrueBrain>that is not an argument ;)
09:29<TrueBrain>and again, Angular is TypeScript
09:29<TrueBrain>huge difference
09:29<andythenorth>there's never an objective argument about web frameworks
09:29<TrueBrain>mostly people saying stuff like that to me, never did anything with it :) But that is just my experience :)
09:29<LordAro>JS-only sites tend to be really bad for accessibility purposes as well
09:29<andythenorth>it's just editor wars again
09:30<andythenorth>my objection is that I lost 4 days of my life to JS in 2001
09:30<LordAro>and they're usually blank when JS is turned off
09:30<LordAro>andythenorth: only 4?
09:30<andythenorth>trying to make something work we'd sold, that couldn't be made to work
09:30<andythenorth>I have nothing objective
09:31<Samu>testing aircraft!
09:31<TrueBrain>taking a poop!
09:31<andythenorth>infringing infosec!
09:35<Wolf01>I still prefer using PHP and a little of JS when really necessary (ajax stuff) :P
09:36<TrueBrain>these days I really like writing a solid backend, and writing a frontend totally separate from it .. via a well defined API ..
09:36<TrueBrain>also nice to write mobile apps against
09:37-!-Thedarkb1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:37<TrueBrain>also why it is very unlikely I would be using Django again for any project of mine
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09:39<Wolf01>I would go with Symfony + Angular on my projects
09:39<@planetmaker>you seem to prefer to write new and then discard maintenance as "it's a pile of cruft" :P
09:40<TrueBrain>the chances of any code base not touched for 12 years being any decent, is very very very slim in general, yes :)
09:40*planetmaker seeks cover
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09:43-!-tokai|noir is "Christian Rosentreter" on +#openttd
09:43<andythenorth>I am switching to this for website backends
09:43<andythenorth>there's a free developer edition
09:44<TrueBrain>how much did they pay you to link that?
09:44<TrueBrain>not sure if we should kick you now or not :P
09:44<LordAro>clearly should just use rails
09:44<andythenorth>I am paying them :(
09:44<TrueBrain>as everyone should use dead langauges :P (did I say that out loud? :P)
09:45<andythenorth>can I get a discount for affiliate referrals?
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09:45-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
09:46<TrueBrain>Alberth / peter1138: <- any comments?
09:47<LordAro>Alberth: there's a fair bit of scrollback for you to go through :)
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10:12<@Alberth>TrueBrain: seems fine to me
10:13<@Alberth>I ownder if we should use more github, eg markdownify the wiki
10:14<TrueBrain>you want to migrate the current wiki? Or do I misunderstand you here? :)
10:14<LordAro>something to consider afterwards, i'd say
10:14<andythenorth>frosch was quite strongly in favour of keeping a wiki format
10:14<andythenorth>and leaving documentation mostly with users
10:14<@Alberth>ok, just a thought
10:15<TrueBrain>we can move important pages :D
10:15<TrueBrain>it can in theory also host the webpage :P
10:15<andythenorth>I proposed killing the wiki, because I don't like wikis :)
10:15<andythenorth>I dislike 'untidy' :(
10:15<TrueBrain>your OCD should not keep others from enjoying it :)
10:15<andythenorth>did github kill 'pages'?
10:16<andythenorth>there was some thing where you could host static websites based on markdown or so
10:16<andythenorth>but I think it died
10:16<TrueBrain>github can host your pages :P
10:16<LordAro>static stuff only though
10:16<@Alberth>don't know what pages are, but isn't there things?
10:16<LordAro>same thing
10:17<@Alberth>multiple, more dedicated versions seems like a nice idea
10:17<andythenorth>I should move my newgrf projects to github
10:17<andythenorth>but then I have to reinvent coop infra
10:18<@Alberth>can't you push a build result to coop?
10:18<TrueBrain>Alberth: I am very curious if that is what people want; but worth the try :)
10:18<TrueBrain>and having a normal 2018-type code-review workflow would benefit the project for sure :P
10:19<@Alberth>perhaps not, both cirdan and jgr mostly do openttd+stuff
10:20<@Alberth>but one could make a version that drops all old crap :p
10:20<andythenorth>I could only push a build result to coop if I had a build farm :). But the build farm is coop
10:20<@Alberth>have a sane base set
10:21<@Alberth>gh has build stuff too
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10:21<@Alberth>travis, i think it's called
10:21<LordAro>has anyone given any thought to bringing jgr & cirdan on as devs?
10:21<LordAro>Alberth: travis is one option, there are several
10:22<LordAro>could use existing bamboo stuff in the meantime
10:23<LordAro>the first step as i see it is to migrate issues to github
10:23<LordAro>that can be done even if github all falls through
10:24<@Alberth>tbh I don't know why one would bother porting the issues imho
10:24<@Alberth>just store them in a repo or a subdir, or even just forget about them
10:25<LordAro>we're pretty sure that github would autolink the stuff in the commit messages
10:25<LordAro>but eh, i guess it's a low priority thing
10:28<@Alberth>it won't link the old issues, not in the last place as git has a somewhat different revision numbering scheme
10:30<LordAro>well no, but #nnnn will get linked
10:30<LordAro>(maybe, the FS#nnnn might not)
10:30<LordAro>anyway, bikeshedding
10:49<andythenorth>we should boatshed instead
10:49*andythenorth boatshedding
10:56<@Alberth>just add boat pixels!
11:01<TrueBrain>You have to bump the issue to at least the number of FS, otherwise GitHub will falsely link issues to commits
11:01<TrueBrain>doing that is as much effort as importing them, so meh
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11:21<Samu>what are the chances of random ai rolling CluelessPlus twice in a row? out of 42 AIs? :(
11:22<LordAro>@calc 1/(42*42)
11:22<@DorpsGek>LordAro: 0.000566893424036
11:23<Samu>sometimes I wonder how random is random
11:23<andythenorth>I made it fun to draw boats
11:23<andythenorth>that was unexpected
11:23<Wolf01> nice
11:23<andythenorth>such chibi
11:24<Wolf01>They look really good
11:24<andythenorth>Wolf01: stay out of trains :P
11:24<andythenorth>it's a tarpit
11:25<Wolf01>I have some more chibi things to make, don't worry, I don't have space or time for trains now
11:27<@Alberth>andy has a tarpit right at home :p
11:27<andythenorth>ships that are 128px in – direction consistently flicker
11:27<andythenorth>this is inevitable?
11:32<supermop>make them articulated?
11:36<andythenorth>are bounding boxes real?
11:36<andythenorth>or a myth?
11:36<andythenorth>my assumption is the spritesorter needs to know the dimensions of a sprite
11:37<supermop>can you abuse sprite stacks?
11:38<supermop>for each chunk of ship to be its own sprite
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11:40<andythenorth>crashed OpenTTD....again
11:43<Wolf01>Don't report crashes by changing grfs ingame ;)
11:51<andythenorth>so what's left in NRT then?
11:51<andythenorth>is it trunk candidate yet?
11:52<andythenorth>it's not lilke trunk has never included anything unfinished, or with bugs :)
11:54<Wolf01>Imho it works
11:55<supermop>poles in the middle of the road
11:56<supermop>nml binary with town roads
11:56<andythenorth>Wolf01: GS and AI support?
11:56<andythenorth>supermop: I don't know how to make a Windows binary, sorry
11:56<Wolf01>GS and AI will need to be tweaked
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11:56<Wolf01>Also the game code might need a bit of work
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12:22<Gustavo6046>Does covering more of a city (using station joining) increase the influx of passengers?
12:29<@Alberth>why don't you simply try it?
12:38<frosch123>supermop: <- town road choice branch
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12:54<supermop>Wolf01: can you remind me how it works? what is the name of the property?
12:56<andythenorth>supermop: ^
12:56<supermop>lower is better?
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13:02<andythenorth>I would have expected higher is better
13:02<andythenorth>dunno :)
13:02<supermop>lets test
13:03<supermop>i have dirt at 8, stone at 4 and asphalt at 2
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13:11<supermop>unkown action 0 property 0x1e
13:12<supermop>disabling unspooled
13:14<supermop>is that the town weight property?
13:15<supermop>looks like it
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13:15<supermop>this is last nights NRT build...
13:16<frosch123>ask Wolf01
13:16<supermop>maybe i need a branch other than nrt nightly
13:17<supermop>nml doesn't complain
13:18<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I guess you're right with moving newgrf repos to github. We should start migrating that
13:18<@planetmaker>and the build repo can be made to interact with basically any repo. It simply needs configuring the proper source
13:18<andythenorth>planetmaker: so we could keep bundles? o_O
13:18<frosch123>planetmaker: eints cannot push to remote
13:18<supermop>andythenorth: Wolf01: is the nrt nightly compatible with town weight?
13:19<andythenorth>supermop: no
13:19<frosch123>hmm, otoh, it just needs a github account
13:19<@planetmaker>dunno, it can also push elsewhere. Jenkins itself is quite autonomous. bundles is for it "just a server"
13:19<supermop>ok well that explains the error
13:19<@planetmaker>though the server currently is kinda included as file system
13:20<andythenorth>I was just thinking to reduce maintenance burden
13:20<andythenorth>when devzone repo access breaks, it relies on frosch or spike
13:20<frosch123>currently it works :p
13:20<andythenorth>leave it until next major break?
13:21<frosch123>until after ottd is migrated?
13:21<@planetmaker>the flaky thing is the web interface... ssh is much more robust
13:21<andythenorth>no gain in looking for work
13:21<frosch123>planetmaker: i switched the cron job to just restart before the eints push :p
13:21<@planetmaker>like it
13:22<frosch123>the vm is just too small
13:22<frosch123>it runs out of memory when someone downloads a zip bundle from rhodecode or something
13:22<supermop>andythenorth: so should i send you this spool version to test?
13:22<andythenorth>supermop: you'd need a windows binary?
13:23<andythenorth>what we need is a new compile farm :)
13:23<supermop>yes, but if you want to test it in my stead could just send to you
13:23<andythenorth>that builds more branches
13:23<andythenorth>I don't actually know much about it
13:23<andythenorth>it's a Wolf01 idea :)
13:40<andythenorth>I finished 5 ships :)
13:41<andythenorth>just 24 more to go
13:46<Samu>how do I generate a nice @listfile on windows?
13:53<supermop>Wolf01: do you want to test these roads?
13:54<Samu>anyway, i'm bored and decided to compress an mp3 using the best file compressor in existance
13:54<Samu>what am I gonna expect
13:55<Samu>paq8px archiver v138 (C) 2018, Matt Mahoney et al.
13:55<Samu>the archiver now requires a @filelist
13:55<Samu>i have no idea how to generate one nicely
13:55<Samu>or @listfile
13:56<Samu>well, forget it, it's not openttd related
13:56<Cubey>Are you just talking about a list of filenames?
13:56<Samu>yes, but also pathnames
13:57<Samu>not full pathnames though
13:57<Cubey>Full pathnames wouldn't work? I guess you could remove the unneeded part of the path with a simple find and replace
13:58<Cubey>dir /s/b
13:58<Samu>also, windows filenames may contain spaces
13:58<Samu>it fails to find files with space :(
13:59<Samu>if the file is enclosed with "", like "file with spaces"
14:00<Samu>it can compress, but i dunno how to generate such filelist
14:00<Cubey>dir /s/b > listfile.txt and then find and replace away the parts of the paths with spaces
14:02<andythenorth>supermop: not feeling that sprite
14:02<andythenorth>I think the 2CC upper works doesn't work
14:03<andythenorth>variants in the spritesheet
14:03<andythenorth>needs more work though eh?
14:03<frosch123>make some of the cages blue?
14:04<frosch123>or maybe all of them
14:04<frosch123>cages blend in with the hull currently
14:04<andythenorth>they could be white, but then it's a lot of white
14:04<andythenorth>might look like a ferry :P
14:05<@planetmaker>the cages could be rusty-brown
14:05<frosch123>or add some bigs and cows walking on the roof?
14:05<@planetmaker>indeed... do they need a roof? :)
14:06<frosch123>also some life buoys for them
14:07<andythenorth>in iron horse, they have more contrast
14:12<Gustavo6046> I quit
14:12<Gustavo6046>I suck at railways
14:21<Samu>is that an AI?
14:25<supermop>i think it needs to look like it has decks/levels andy
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>you suck at making png screenshots
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14:50<andythenorth>I like it more, and it references Horse a lot
14:50<andythenorth>I might need to knock out the doors in the hull
14:50<andythenorth>it shares the same base hull sprite as
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15:03<Samu>the mp3 file was compressed from 16,7 MB (17.604.608 bytes) to 14,2 MB (14.910.279 bytes)
15:10<TrueBrain>the existance of mp3s? Yes
15:14<LordAro>probably simpler to decrease the bitrate
15:15<TrueBrain>simpler is taking a piss, tbh :)
15:15<Gustavo6046>Samu, that is me
15:16<Gustavo6046>TrueBrain, OGG if you really need intense compression
15:16<andythenorth>same as last
15:16<Gustavo6046>FLAC can also be easily compressed without destroying the audio quality.
15:19<Gustavo6046>The best way to compress audio would be to divide it into chunks, do a weighted moving average on then and then interpolate them.
15:19<supermop>best way is listen to no recorded music, only live concerts
15:20<Gustavo6046>for each of these chunks, we define a finer modulation map.
15:20<Gustavo6046>supermop, I'm not talking about music
15:20<Gustavo6046>I'm talking about digital audio in general
15:20<TrueBrain>so white noise
15:20<TrueBrain>brown noise
15:20<TrueBrain>my sister crying
15:22<andythenorth>why did you make your sister cry TrueBrain ?
15:22<andythenorth>sounds mean
15:22<TrueBrain>I made her read this chat
15:22<TrueBrain>*owh snap*
15:23<+glx>it's not the worse subject in this chat :)
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>i found the reason why the website broke...
15:35<Eddi|zuHause> <-- around 1:38:30 he announces "search for openttd", and a minute later "oh... we broke it :p"
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>that was thursday evening
15:35<+glx>usual reason for the website to fall :)
15:36<TrueBrain>sorry to disapoint, that was not "the reason" :P
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's certainly plausible that when the biggest german youtuber says the name of a website in a stream which 20-40k people watch, that website might go down quickly :p
15:38<TrueBrain>honestly, we had worse over the years
15:39<TrueBrain>and both times around the time django stopped working, the traffic was not unusual
15:39<TrueBrain>all I could find, that it blocked on an IO operation ...
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>looks like you need a watchdog to kill it if blocked
16:10<TrueBrain>it happened now 3 times in 2 years ...
16:10<TrueBrain>I mean ...
16:10<TrueBrain>I rather have an upgrade to something non-django-1.2 than a watchdog :D
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue about that :p
16:11<TrueBrain> is a good start ;)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i want to have a clue :p
16:13<TrueBrain>and I guess that is part of the problem ;)
16:26<frosch123>hmm, i don't like the inserters-compress-belts change
16:27<frosch123>there was this technique to put slightly faster belts in front of inserters which do the compresing
16:28<frosch123>i considered that really smart
16:28<frosch123>actually, it still looks better than the inserter stopping movement... so i'll keep doing it :)
16:33<supermop>hmm i wonder why my highway doesn't use the bridge overlays i want it to
16:37<supermop>ok i figured it out
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16:57<supermop>is there no way to draw different road underlay or overlay for level crossings?
16:58<supermop>oh its on the to-do
16:59<frosch123>most level crossing stuff is already provided by the railtype
17:00<frosch123>so, it's more a rail thing
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17:46<supermop>frosch123: i wanted to add stripes before the crossing on some road types
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18:26<Wolf01>supermop: sorry, had a party this evening :P
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18:55<debdog>you should be too drunk to even type here then
18:56<Wolf01>I don't drink
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---Logclosed Sun Feb 25 00:00:22 2018