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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-02-28

---Logopened Wed Feb 28 00:00:26 2018
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03:39<Samu>hi
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05:41<@peter1138>Is it lunch time yet?
05:51<__ln__>shirley it is
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07:03<andythenorth>o/
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07:47<andythenorth>judging the relative size of ships remains hard :P
07:47<andythenorth>https://www.flickr.com/photos/g-m-d/28295455849/in/pool-workboatsntugboats/
07:48<andythenorth>https://www.flickr.com/photos/56155704@N02/40045462581/in/pool-workboatsntugboats/
07:49<andythenorth>even counting windows on the house isn't reliable, this ship has a lot, but is very small https://www.flickr.com/photos/zak355/40013752532/in/pool-workboatsntugboats/
07:51<Yotson>https://www.binnenschifferforum.de/showthread.php?7625-Maritiem-GMS-02206367 Some specs for one of those.
07:52<Yotson>A lot of info about ships is out there. :)
07:52<andythenorth>I use shippspotting a lot
07:52<Yotson>There you go.
07:52<andythenorth>or the one that tracks the current vessel position
07:52<andythenorth>http://www.marinetraffic.com/
07:53<andythenorth>the map is addictive :)
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08:39<andythenorth>they used ottd purple as company colour :P https://www.flickr.com/photos/79942028@N06/39823057392/in/pool-workboatsntugboats/
08:39<andythenorth>rare
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09:34<supermop_work>looks like they are loading that bow first andythenorth
09:35<andythenorth>yo supermop_work
09:35<andythenorth>it does eh
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09:46<supermop_work>so what do we need for roads
09:46<supermop_work>all good?
09:46<andythenorth>stuffs
09:47<andythenorth>not sure :)
09:48<supermop_work>i think its ok?
09:48<andythenorth>bugs I think
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10:46<andythenorth>sizing again :P https://www.flickr.com/photos/willieguildea/27833960799/in/pool-workboatsntugboats/
11:03<andythenorth>supermop_work: 'large bulk carrier' or 'large bulk barge'? :P
11:04<andythenorth>an LBC is huge IRL
11:04<andythenorth>but they might not always be barges in the grf :(
11:04<supermop_work>if it's a barge, a barge
11:04<supermop_work>just call it barge, not large barge
11:04<supermop_work>and call the small one small
11:05<supermop_work>is it random between ship or barge?
11:05<andythenorth>no
11:05<supermop_work>is it expected to change?
11:05<andythenorth>in other rosters
11:05<andythenorth>'barge' is a fairly flexible term :P
11:06<andythenorth>and it will always need to look like a water-borne dump truck
11:06<andythenorth>you might be right about the sizes in the names, dunno
11:07<andythenorth>they're used in new Horse too, and make sense there
11:11<supermop_work>i think it is fair though to describe size relative to the ships in the grf rather than real ships
11:11<andythenorth>'larger'
11:11<andythenorth>'smaller'
11:11<andythenorth>:P
11:11<supermop_work>every ship in game is on a rnge of 'tiny' to 'pretty small' compared to modern real ships
11:12<supermop_work>also different rosters can have different strings
11:12<supermop_work>if you are going to have different boats per roster, may as well change strings
11:13<supermop_work>no one would expect american locomotives in horse to have same names as british
11:13<andythenorth>also that
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12:39<andythenorth>well
12:39<andythenorth>where is Alberth? o_O
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12:58<supermop_work>hi Wolf01
12:58<Wolf01>Moin
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13:05<andythenorth>so is the NRT visual effect bug caching, or not triggering the cb?
13:06<Samu>looks like bzip2 is good at compressing openttd savegames
13:06<Samu>better than lzma
13:06<Samu>must test this more
13:07<andythenorth>hmm
13:07<andythenorth>lzma is broken on macOS
13:07<andythenorth>that's relevant to nothing :P
13:08<Samu>better, i mean compresses more
13:09<Samu>must try real busy savegames, and not nearly empty maps
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13:11<supermop_work>i dont know
13:11<supermop_work>my dual mode trucks sometimes have smoke under wires, and sometimes sparks on open road
13:12<supermop_work>the cb seems to work for changig power and cost though
13:15<supermop_work>if that is what you are refering to, andythenorth
13:15<andythenorth>yes that's what I'm referring to
13:16<supermop_work>i guess i could test it more to check if the effect is stuck on the type pertaining to depot it was built in or something
13:16<supermop_work>or type it last stopped/started on
13:17<supermop_work>i haven't been able to play or code anything at home last few days though
13:22<supermop_work>but the fact that a similar cb works as desired for the other properties leads me to believe that its not the CB
13:25<Samu>bzip2 9,33 MB (9.792.414 bytes); lzma:9 9,81 MB (10.287.120 bytes)
13:25<Samu>bzip2 did better, and it's much much faster
13:25<Samu>than lzma:9
13:26<Samu>now I wonder why :(
13:28<Wolf01>Read books and learn instead ow just wondering why doing pointless tests
13:28<Samu>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bzip2 i'm reading the wikipedia
13:33<+glx>highly depends on what is compressed
13:33<+glx>like every compression algorithm
13:35-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
13:35<Rubidium>lzma sucks all round just to punish those who think higher is always better
13:36<Rubidium>especially when you have no clue what the underlying settings actually do
13:36<Samu>gonna try a 4096x4096 map with trees everywhere
13:36<Samu>that usually compresses bad, wanna compare bzip2 to lzma:9 of openttd
13:37<Rubidium>the current setting is the best you can get given the "original" constraint of not slowing the compression down a lot
13:38<Rubidium>i.e. when not compressing the game in MP would be slower than compressing on a 5-10 Mbit uplink (or downlink)
13:40<andythenorth>oops
13:40<andythenorth>crashed OpenTTD again :P
13:41<+glx>modified source I hope ;)
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27970 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2018-02-28 19:45:37 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>greek: 1 change by Jubilee
13:46<Samu>aww, bzip2 did worse
13:46<Samu>trees are bad
13:47<Samu>Unnamed, 1960-01-01 lzma9.sav 26,7 MB (28.024.660 bytes)
13:47<Samu>Unnamed, 1960-01-01.sav.bz2 28,1 MB (29.504.646 bytes)
13:48<Samu>Unnamed, 1960-01-01.sav 170 MB (179.221.816 bytes)
13:48<Samu>uncompressed
13:48<+glx>both compression ratio are ok for me
13:49<+glx>when you compare to the uncompressed size
13:49<Samu>let me compare with lzma2 which is the default
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13:50<Samu>savegame_format =
13:50<Samu>or that
13:52<Samu>Unnamed, 1960-01-01 default.sav 31,1 MB (32.659.128 bytes)
13:52<Samu>now bzip2 won
13:52<Samu>maybe not if i compare speed
13:56<Samu>plot twist... i wasn't aware bzip2 is multithreaded, no wonder it was so fast
13:56<Samu>8 cores helping :(
13:57<andythenorth>lol barges
13:57<andythenorth>symmetrical rectangles are suited to drawing :P
13:57<andythenorth>so much easier than ship-shaped ships
13:57<andythenorth>barge.grf :P
14:01<Samu>testing bzip at fast compressing methods
14:01<Samu>and woah... it's still impressive
14:03<Samu>28,7 MB (30.192.638 bytes) in 17 seconds, single-thread 100Kb dictionary, super fast method
14:03<Samu>really impressive
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14:03<Samu>lzma2 did it in 27 seconds and 31,1 MB (32.659.128 bytes)
14:03<Samu>lzma:2
14:05<Samu>so when will openttd support bzip2 savegame format:p
14:06<andythenorth>Wolf01: this is the possible caching / cb trigger issue https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1203232#p1203232
14:06<andythenorth>o_O
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14:18<Samu>hi Wormnest , there is a problem with NoNoCAB trains, something wrong happens at around year 2028
14:19<Wormnest>And what might that be Samu
14:19<Samu>i recall these same problems in NoCAB v499
14:19<Samu>well it does fine from 1950-2027~ish
14:19<Samu>always profiting, making more trains, increasing company value etc
14:20<Samu>then, at around that year, the profits started to decrease, the number of trains also
14:20<Samu>slowly...
14:20<Samu>and it's now approaching the year 2051, and only has about 40 trains, down from 1000 in 2027
14:20<Samu>it has been slowly selling them over the last 20 years
14:21<Wormnest>Maybe the tracks are expiring, can´t remember when that happens nor if nonocab considers that
14:24<Samu>let me investigate those savegames
14:25<Samu>actually, it's not around 2027, it's a bit earlier
14:26<Samu>yeah 2018, my bad
14:26<Samu>i was off by 10 years :p
14:27<Samu>there's still rail tracks
14:27<Samu>and rail engines
14:29<Samu>ok i see, it maxes out at around 2018, then there's a 4-5 year profits stagnates, and then from 2023 onwards it's only decreasing
14:30<Samu>i dunno which savegames you're interested in
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14:30<Wormnest>not sure, don´t have time to look anyway currently
14:31<Samu>https://imgur.com/4SRtWK1
14:31<Samu>the starting of its downfall
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14:32<Wolf01><andythenorth> Wolf01: this is the possible caching / cb trigger issue https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1203232#p1203232 <- probably
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14:33<Wolf01>Quak
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14:34<Wormnest>Maybe the problems is that there´s no electric rail in arctic iirc
14:34<Samu>there isn't
14:35<Samu>this is how it looks like right now https://imgur.com/ahjSNEV 3 years from reaching 2051 :(
14:39<Wormnest>Yeah I should have a look sometime that´s obvious
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15:07<andythenorth>so how often does OpenTTD reload a grf from filesystem?
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15:32<andythenorth>found you a boat Wolf01 https://www.flickr.com/photos/joostzaal/27119044149/in/pool-workboatsntugboats/
15:32<Wolf01>:D
15:32<Wolf01>Wolfportholeladder
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16:24<Wolf01>'night
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16:25<andythenorth>same
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 01 00:00:27 2018