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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-03-01

---Logopened Thu Mar 01 00:00:27 2018
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07:17<Thedarkb>When is libicu52 getting replaced with 57?
07:19<LordAro>when someone replaces it
07:19<@planetmaker>^^ Feel free to make a patch for that and submit that. Would be welcome
07:19<LordAro>it's a bit tricky because the layout engine got removed
07:20<LordAro>frosch & i were vaguely looking at using pango
07:25<@planetmaker>oh
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09:50<@Alberth>o/
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09:54<Samu>hi
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10:03<supermop_work_>yo
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10:15<@planetmaker>\o
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11:30<andythenorth>this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8859/tanker_tanker.png
11:30<andythenorth>or repeat this shape again? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8858/tanker_tanker_2.png
11:31<Samu>need english expert
11:31<@Alberth>variation is nice, but the first ship is silly
11:32<@Alberth>perhaps drop the green chimney instead?
11:32<Samu>STR_GOAL_REACHED : {WHITE}{COMPANY}{BLACK} {COMPANY_NUM} was the first company to reach a company value of {GREEN}{CURRENCY_SHORT}
11:32<@Alberth>or no blue cabin, but the white part higher
11:32<Samu>now I'm adding the days it took for that company to reach it
11:33<Samu>how do I add that information in that phrase
11:33<andythenorth>https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/SHIPS/British-Coastal-and-Short-Sea/BOWKER/i-CL9XS9L
11:33<andythenorth>https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/SHIPS/British-Coastal-and-Short-Sea/BOWKER/i-ksQt3QB
11:33<andythenorth>I think it looks odd with house in middle
11:34<andythenorth>but I think the variation is worth exploring
11:34<Samu>xxx was the first to reach, in yyy days, a company value of zzz?
11:34<@Alberth>break the cargo-hold in two then
11:34<@Alberth>ie make 2 smaller cargo holds
11:34<andythenorth>worth trying
11:34<Samu>xxx was the first to reach a company value of yyy, in zzz days?
11:34<@Alberth>after foo days, bla company made a million!!
11:35<andythenorth>if I can get it to look right, I can use the same shape for cement/powder ship
11:35<andythenorth>http://binnenvaart-fotos.nl/pages/tankers/tankers-r/rodort-9.php
11:35<Samu>After xxx days, yyy was the first company to reach a value of zzz?
11:36<andythenorth>but they really do look ugly with that configuration
11:37<@Alberth>perhaps make the blue cabin smaller in width, as you want to maximize cargo hold space
11:37<@Alberth>or change the colour to white too :)
11:37<@Alberth>but indeed, it looks weird
11:38<Samu>After xxx days from inauguration, yyy was the first company to reach a (company?) value of zzz?
11:39<@Alberth>final picture looks like a tanker
11:39<andythenorth>cement tanker
11:39<Samu>__ln__: english master, plz halp
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11:41<@Alberth>you missed a few "companies", let me help you: after xxx days of inauguration of the company, company yyy was the first company to reach a company value of zzz
11:41<Samu>heh :(
11:41<@Alberth>I think it needs even more companies
11:42<Samu>I just noticed it's repeating
11:42<@Alberth>:D
11:42<@Alberth>"from inauguration" seems a bit superfluous too, to me
11:42<Samu>of
11:42<@Alberth>I mean are there other relevant dates ?
11:43<Samu>it stores the inauguration date of a company, then the date it reaches, and computes the days that passed
11:44<Samu>it reaches goal*
11:44<@Alberth>and?
11:44<Samu>it's just for "competition" purposes
11:45<@Alberth>the script is intended for a race, right?
11:45<@Alberth>so everybody always aims for the end from day 1
11:45<Samu>yes, but not against a specific date
11:45<@Alberth>no need to make that explicit
11:46<Samu>perhaps that could be another goal mode
11:46<Samu>but not for now
11:46<@Alberth>so, can I win the competition, and yet start very late with my company?
11:46<Samu>yes
11:47<@Alberth>even after a company that started earlier has reached the end goal?
11:47<Samu>ah, nah, if the goal was reached before, the GS switches from goal mode to ranking mode
11:47<@Alberth>I could have fewer xxx days!
11:48<@Alberth>so "from inauguration" is a lie
11:50<Samu>it's the day the company was created
11:51<@Alberth>yes, but it's not relevant in the result, like your message claims
11:51<Samu>ah, i see what u mean
11:52<Samu>well, that's how most servers that have a company value goal work atm
11:53<Samu>but they use real world time, I use openttd's
11:53<@Alberth>that's fine, but in that case only the date of the first win is relevant
11:53<@Alberth>and not how long the company exists
11:54<@Alberth>so make your message convey that message properly
11:54<@Alberth>hmm, two "message" words there, first should be "text", I guess
11:55<Samu>there's only one winner
11:55<@Alberth>there usually is, in competitions :)
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11:56<@Alberth>my point is that by printing the number of days it took, it looks like that is relevant for winning
11:56<@Alberth>as it is not, perhaps better not print that information?
11:57<@Alberth>or you change the script such that it becomes relevant, of course
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11:59<Samu>it's merely informative, not relevant for winning, but it's nice to know this bit of information for the next time the server restart, and try to redo a better time
12:00<Samu>there is no "highscore" table feature though
12:00<Samu>would be interesting to have such a feature
12:01<Samu>or maybe, there is, but it's xhuntershunter or whatever, and I'm not using that
12:07<Samu>{COMMA} days or {NUM} days? or is there anything better for counting dates?
12:11<@Alberth>bla years and bla days, is probably the only better form
12:11<@Alberth>4 years and 4 days
12:11<@Alberth>@calc 4*365+4
12:11<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 1464
12:12<@Alberth>1464 days means so little :p
12:12<Samu>there is no {AGE} :/
12:13<@Alberth>actually it's 4*356+4
12:14<@Alberth>there are no long periods in openttd
12:14<@Alberth>or at least no long periods that are reported
12:14<Samu>356?
12:15<@Alberth>trains have nice round model years :)
12:15<Samu>366?
12:15<@Alberth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year right, 365 it is
12:16<@Alberth>could add a day once every 4 years, but I wouldn't bother
12:16<@Alberth>it makes it also simpler to compare lengths
12:18<@Alberth>ie decrease from 5 to 3 years, is that 2 years, or 2 years and 1 day?
12:24<andythenorth>Alberth: better, dunno if it's nice though http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8860/tanker_tanker_3.png
12:24<andythenorth>it's logical, but is it appealing :P
12:25<@Alberth>swap the big and the small cargo hold?
12:26<@Alberth>I'd suggest a test-drive at the forum?
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12:26<@Alberth>the yellow antenna and green chimney look weird, but that holds for more ships imho
12:27<@Alberth>paint some chimneys white as well?
12:27<@Alberth>and a darker teint of yellow/brown here and there?
12:27<@Alberth>or remove a few antennas :)
12:28<andythenorth>the antennas could go
12:29<@Alberth>or make them black, so they don't stand out so much
12:30<andythenorth>rm-ed
12:30<andythenorth>they're nice if only a few ships have them
12:30<andythenorth>otherwise just noise
12:30<@Alberth>+1
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12:33<Samu>STR_GOAL_REACHED : {BLACK}After {WHITE}{COMMA} days{BLACK} of inauguration, {WHITE}{COMPANY}{BLACK} {COMPANY_NUM} was first to reach a company value of {GREEN}{CURRENCY_SHORT}{BLACK}. {}{}Game is now paused. {}{}Press {YELLOW}Continue{BLACK} to resume game.
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12:38<@Alberth>o/
12:38<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8861/tanker_tanker_4.png
12:38<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8862/tanker_tanker_5.png
12:38<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8863/tanker_tanker_6.png
12:38<andythenorth>different positions
12:38<andythenorth>still not convinced
12:38<andythenorth>but better than http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8859/tanker_tanker.png
12:40<frosch123>hoi
12:43<andythenorth>looks bad :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8864/tanker_tanker_7.png
12:43<andythenorth>looks backwards
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>i've never seen ships where the steering cabin is in the front
12:44<andythenorth>black swan :)
12:44<andythenorth>all swans are white, no?
12:46<andythenorth>ugly version https://www.marinetraffic.com/hr/ais/details/ships/shipid:2058048/mmsi:244660395/vessel:FRISIAN%20HOPPER
12:46<@Alberth>5 and 6 look best to me
12:46<andythenorth>most offshore support vessels have house forward
12:46<andythenorth>but now also lots of coasters
12:47<andythenorth>https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgp5Ie_7o8iiZFD2K4hLy9gZM-BC8l9uTp0_j-As2I9akzBcSP
12:48<andythenorth>https://uglyships.wordpress.com/
12:50<@Alberth>I'd call them exotic :)
12:50<andythenorth>Alberth: 6 is ok, but I think they're all clunky
12:51<@Alberth>add a black high powered swan :p
12:52<SpComb>Transport Fever is maddeningly slow, if you start in 1850 and maximize your loan, I can't seem to get profitable enough to sustain actual gameplay
12:54<andythenorth>this is just better and simpler http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8865/tanker_tanker_8.png
12:55<andythenorth>quite repetitive with other ships, but eh :P
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13:00<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: yeah, it's pretty crazy at high difficulties
13:05<SpComb>hmm, can't remember if this was easy or normal
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13:10<andythenorth>supermop_work_: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8860/tanker_tanker_3.png or http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8865/tanker_tanker_8.png
13:10<andythenorth>??
13:10<andythenorth>there are others ;P
13:11<Samu>Alberth: https://imgur.com/nitWj21
13:12<Samu>good english, color choice?
13:12<Samu>probably not best english
13:12<@Alberth>16 days AFTER inauguration
13:13<Samu>oh, i see, my poor english skillz
13:13<@Alberth>amount doesn't seem important, but ymmv
13:16<Samu>16 days!
13:16<Samu>let me try a big number
13:18<Samu>https://imgur.com/5zI2j64
13:18<Samu>hmm, i see
13:18<Samu>seems too random
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13:20<Samu>local days_taken = GSDate.GetCurrentDate() - this.companies[c_id].inauguration_date;
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: also at least in train fever it got even worse after 1950, when passenger numbers break down due to emergence of cars
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't played transport fever that far
13:27<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: :O
13:27<SpComb>that sounds terrible :D
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>and i think income also changes at 1900 and 1950
13:28<SpComb>but hey, just as I complain and continue playing again today, suddenly I'm making 5m/yr income and I just paid off my loan in 1895
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: well, in any case, it comes with a "remove money" mod :)
13:29<SpComb>I got burned so badly in the campaigns on the fickle industry chains that I started this sandbox game with just passengers, far simpler to manage
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>managing industry chains is tricky
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13:29<Eddi|zuHause>because if any part of the route breaks down, everything breaks down
13:30<Wolf01>Moin
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>that's why in my game i used ships for most industries
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>because you get all the connectivity with few to none of the infrastructure
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>so you can cover the distance between all the industries in the chain
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13:31<SpComb>yeah, that happened in pretty much every one of the campaign games that I played
13:31<SpComb>had to just give up at the point where none of the trains are making any profit anymore and I max out my loan
13:32<SpComb>this pax game is going much much better in comparison
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>it's a quirk of the game that you can't do partial industry routes like in openttd. you have to make the route from primary to finished product
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>and balance the primary outputs
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>and get rid of some of the byproducts
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>and now talking about it i REALLY want to play it...
13:37<@Alberth>o/
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27971 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2018-03-01 19:45:36 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish (mexican): 2 changes by Absay
13:47<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8866/tanker_tanker_9.png
13:47<andythenorth>probably worth continuing
13:47<Wolf01>Yes, fine
13:52<andythenorth>less bad than before
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14:20<andythenorth>better with this hull? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8868/tanker_tanker_10.png
14:28<Wolf01>Can't decide
14:30<frosch123>i prefer 9
14:31<frosch123>9 adds more variety, 10 is very similar to the bigger ships
14:31<@peter1138>That zoom though
14:31<andythenorth>there are others like 10
14:32<@peter1138>Do them all. Whatever it is.
14:33<frosch123>9 is more like a river ship, 10 is a sea ship
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14:44<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8869/tanker_tanker_11.png
14:44<andythenorth>also
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>uhm...
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>Mar 01 20:55:27 Johannes-II smartd[1091]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], 1442 Currently unreadable (pending) sectors
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>Mar 01 20:55:27 Johannes-II smartd[1091]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], 2 Offline uncorrectable sectors (changed -12)
14:59<Wolf01>Time to change the HDD
15:02<Rubidium>rather too late to change the HDD
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15:13<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: rip
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15:20<andythenorth>hmm
15:20<andythenorth>11 is a better sprite, but boring
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15:25<Eddi|zuHause>all good things come in 12
15:28<andythenorth>I am waiting for 29
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>so i bought that HDD in sept. 2010
15:30<Wolf01>Mine are from 2007, but don't tell them
15:31<frosch123>hdd used to have negative reliability decay
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>meaning the older they get the more reliable they become?
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>i think much of that is selection bias :p
15:35<supermop_work_>andythenorth: i like the split holds for little tanker
15:35<andythenorth>I think I use that for gen 1
15:35<andythenorth>I am only drawing gen 2 ships currently, but with a steam funnel
15:35<andythenorth>I think that is nice gen 1
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16:41<Wolf01>'night
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17:17<SpComb>ok, so double-track tunnel entrances are broken
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>tunnels always were a bit weird
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17:47<Samu>english master, halp!
17:47<Samu>- In the rare case where more than one company reach the target value at the same time, the most valuable of them, or the newest, in case of a tie, is victorious.
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17:47<Samu>is this good english?
17:48<Samu>need to insert "at the time of checking" somewhere
17:48<Supercheese>"In the unlikely event that multiple companies reach the target value simultaneously, then the most valuable wins. If their values are identical, then the newest wins."
17:49<Supercheese>but that's just my take on it
17:49<Samu>looks better
17:49<Supercheese>instead of "most valuable" perhaps even "one with the highest value"
17:49<Samu>thx
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17:56<Samu>this is part of a changelog
17:56<Samu>the old behaviour was... bad
17:57<Samu>it would re-write multiple times while iterating over the winners, the last one iterated would be the winner
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17:58<Samu>since it is iterating the rankings, it would be the lowest valued winner, :(
17:58<Samu>and i have no idea what it does in case of a tie
17:58<Samu>lel
18:00<Samu>ah, the oldest company, it seems, would be winner
18:00<Samu>ok, thx
18:07<Samu>last english question
18:07<Samu>Company Value GS is a Game Script that uses the goal list to rank companies by their current company value. It can also be used to challenge companies to be the first to reach a user defined company value target as a goal as fast as they can.
18:08<Samu>good enough?
18:08<Samu>maybe a colon ther
18:08<Samu>Company Value GS is a Game Script that uses the goal list to rank companies by their current company value. It can also be used to challenge companies to be the first to reach a user defined company value target as a goal, as fast as they can.
18:09<Samu>"as fast as they can" or "in the minimum amount of time possible" or maybe something else you suggest?~
18:11<Samu>not only be the first, but also do it as fast as they can
18:11<Samu>hmm, :(
18:13<Samu>"Company Value GS is a Game Script that uses the goal list to rank companies by their current company value. It can also be used to challenge companies not only to be the first to reach a user defined company value target as a goal, but also as fast as they can."
18:14<Samu>English Master!
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18:22<Samu>well? :(
18:24<Samu>but also to do it as fast as they can.
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18:29<Samu>https://bananas.openttd.org/en/notAvailableYet
18:29<Samu>uploaded~
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