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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-03-11

---Logopened Sun Mar 11 00:00:39 2018
---Daychanged Sun Mar 11 2018
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03:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27975 trunk/src/company_manager_face.h (2018-03-11 08:16:58 +0100 )
03:17<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r8969) [FS#6642]: Missing one hair style.
03:17<andythenorth>o/
03:17<andythenorth>more hair styles
03:17<andythenorth>Commit by peter1138 :: merge NRT ? o_O
03:17<peter1138>Aw, forgot to credit m3henry :S
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03:24<peter1138>Is NRT complete ?
03:26<peter1138>https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/issues/20 eh?
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04:04<@Alberth>moin
04:24<andythenorth>lo
04:27<nielsm>well I have the title song looping perfectly now, when using the ms software midi synth, but still some issues with it when sending to an external synth (via oldschool serial midi)
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05:17<andythenorth>blah blah pax ships
05:24<@Alberth>make a freight ship set :)
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05:25<@Alberth>or make a livestock ship refittable :p
05:25<nielsm>alright this seems to work well enough now! http://0x0.st/smh7.webm http://0x0.st/smhh.webm
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05:30<LordAro>nielsm: nice
05:31<andythenorth>some sort of pax ship http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8891/pax_such_ship.png
05:34<@Alberth>seems ok
05:34<@Alberth>at least it has holes at the side :)
05:35<nielsm>patch (with all my collected music fixes): https://gist.github.com/anonymous/bd4e402012e9afd32303c62638ef3261
05:40<andythenorth>hmm
05:40<andythenorth>not sure where 'high speed' fits in Sam
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05:43<@Alberth>that would be only passengers and mail?
05:43<@Alberth>high speed coal bulk transport :)
05:44<@Alberth>just make smaller pax ships faster
05:44<nielsm>how about a small single-person jet boat carrying a few bags of valuables
05:44<@Alberth>not quite unsinkable, I think :)
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05:46<LordAro>nielsm: a few tips about getting patch reviewed: 1) nag devs insessantly 2) be very sure you're following code style 3) split patch into smaller logical changes (refactors first, new features second) 4) nag devs insessantly
05:48<nielsm>yeah I'll interactive-rebase my git branch some time to make it look nicer and have individual changes make more sense
05:48<nielsm>then split it into several patches
05:53<andythenorth>not loving the large pax liner http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8892/pax_sam_blah_blah.png
05:53<andythenorth>:P
05:53<andythenorth>it's very blah blah blah
05:54<nielsm>make the upper decks slightly smaller than the lower, rounded at the ends
05:55<nielsm>and maybe add an outdoor pool!
05:56<andythenorth>it just needs to be...better :P
05:56<andythenorth>need some RL inspiration
05:56<andythenorth>this is right size + type, but is boring http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2769525
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05:59<andythenorth>this is quite nice https://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/07/08/pointer_alaska_aground_wideweb__470x311,0.jpg
05:59<@Alberth>remove front and back upper holes
06:00<axoi>Hello! Is it posibble to have a game where diffrent player companies share one transport network?
06:00<@Alberth>I like the green deck :)
06:00<@Alberth>hi
06:01<@Alberth>axoi: you can play a coop game, where everybody is in the same company
06:01<@Alberth>there is also a shared infrastructure patch, but no idea what its current state is
06:02<axoi>Alberth: I know, but I want to recreate transport situation from my country - we have a lot companies and one network. :D
06:02<@Alberth>if you want the latter, and are looking for a ready-made program, I think your best bet is the JGR patchpack in the development forum, but really no idea if it is included in there
06:04<@Alberth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42254 the actual patch, seems old-ish
06:04<axoi>Alberth: I can build game with this patch, no need to out-of-box solution. I'll check if it works later. :)
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06:05<@Alberth>check what the last update is, could be years
06:05<@Alberth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73469&hilit=shared+infrastructure jgr patch does seem to have it too
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06:06<@Alberth>and that is definitely up-to-date
06:06<@Alberth>you can either build the thing yourself (it's at github somewhere), or download a version from that thread
06:07<@Alberth>github url is likely mentioned in the thread as well
06:08<andythenorth>infra is weird
06:08<andythenorth>I had real trouble understanding it
06:08<andythenorth>even connecting tracks is very hard
06:09<@Alberth>never played it
06:09<axoi>Thank you for your help. :) I'll test this later, and I may make server if it works as I want.
06:10<@Alberth>is it useful to have infra-sharing?
06:10<andythenorth>I found it confusing
06:10<@Alberth>it's mostly just shifting some income around, isn't it?
06:10<andythenorth>it's access into stations / bits of map you'd otherwise be blocked from
06:11<andythenorth>it's a potato/potato feature
06:11<andythenorth>the game is fine without it
06:11<andythenorth>including it is neutral for gameplay, but more complex to code, explain and document
06:11<andythenorth>so I am very -1
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06:12<@Alberth>seems fair
06:16<andythenorth>I don't play multiplayer though
06:17<andythenorth>meanwhile http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8893/is_luxury_sam.png
06:17<andythenorth>better, still boring
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06:23<Wolf01>Moin
06:24<@Alberth>moin
06:25<@Alberth>we'll also get a non-luxury version?
06:25<andythenorth>yes, there's a ferry-type
06:25<andythenorth>the luxury is something like http://www.cruisemapper.com/images/ships/767-large-f6b6fa7cb2bd7cbcc313159961f3c6ee.jpg
06:25<@Alberth>I'd somewhat suggest to tear down the back half of the cabins, and make some recreation area
06:27<Wolf01>20000 Edge extesions and none for RSS :(
06:27<@Alberth>or add some 2cc decoration at the side?
06:30<Wolf01>andythenorth: could you do something for the funnels one the front side? They look like glued :P
06:31<Wolf01>If they are "complete", starting from the deck they are fine, but if they are just the top part I find them strange
06:31<andythenorth>which ship?
06:31<Wolf01>Everyone with double funnels
06:32<Wolf01>If white it's even more evident
06:32<andythenorth>they don't look attached to the hull?
06:32<Wolf01>They look like a sticker
06:32<Wolf01>Maybe it misses some shadow
06:33<andythenorth>they're just not well drawn :P
06:34<andythenorth>the shading is not right either
06:36<andythenorth>one option is to shorten pax ships relative to freight http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8894/pax_short_sam.png
06:36<andythenorth>I did same with trawlers, worked good http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8889/blue_savannah_song.png
06:37<Wolf01>Short on file names? XD
06:40<@Alberth>"sam" gets boring after a week :)
06:40<andythenorth>that
06:40<Wolf01>Ok, back to technic.. I need to finish that robotic arm :D
06:41<andythenorth>oh the unfinished Technic projects I have :P
06:41<andythenorth>and then there are always new parts coming, so I wait
06:41<@Alberth>:)
06:41<@Alberth>maybe re-use stuff of one project for another?
06:41<andythenorth>that is a nice idea
06:41<@Alberth>reduces the number and projects, and makes more progress
06:41<Wolf01>I found I'm missing a lot of parts, also parts which don't even exist
06:41<andythenorth>the best builders do that
06:42<andythenorth>build, video, destroy
06:42<andythenorth>build next thing
06:42<Wolf01>I need to bring that to the exposition next month
06:42<andythenorth>I get too attached to the results
06:42<@Alberth>if building is your thing, that works
06:44<@Alberth>building is my thing, but the approach fails with coding :(
06:44<@Alberth>parts are too easy to make
06:44<andythenorth>it works with mods
06:44<andythenorth>it doesn't work with a core application
06:44<andythenorth>people expect it to stick around and keep working
06:45<@Alberth>annoying, isn't it? :)
06:45<andythenorth>it's ok if they pay
06:45<andythenorth>or if you really enjoy it :P
06:46<@Alberth>I enjoy the puzzles in it
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06:56<Wolf01>What
06:57<@Alberth>sneak visit :)
06:58<Wolf01>Maybe he remembered he had an irc client (configured with autojoin here)
06:59<Wolf01>Meh, 67MB for just the VS installer :|
06:59<@Alberth>:)
06:59<@Alberth>insane software sizes nowadays eh
07:00<andythenorth>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6634
07:00<andythenorth>how can I explain the QA process to Wuzzy?
07:00<Wolf01>And I have to install a specific platform version, which might end up in 3GB of libraries and fuck up my entire environment
07:00<Wolf01>Maybe I should just use the old VS 2015
07:00<andythenorth>I don't disagree with the ticket btw, there are 37 'crash' tickets, multiple of which are due to AI
07:02<Wolf01>Eh... put on a voting system on bananas and downvote things which don't work right
07:02<andythenorth>I don't know how to read the crashlogs properly https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=crash
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07:03<andythenorth>but afaict, common causes of crashes seem to be (1) ICU (2) AI (3) liblzma
07:03<Wolf01>Ok, good news, I don't need to download that specific target platform, it doesn't seem to exist
07:05<Wolf01>What If I just put 14393 instead of 14366 in the vcxproj? :D
07:06<Wolf01>Building started
07:06<Wolf01>Build failed
07:08<Wolf01> <AdditionalIncludeDirectories>C:\Users\gwicks\work\SDL-mirror\include; <- yes, because it's fine to use absolute paths
07:11<@Alberth>as long as stuff never moves :)
07:13<Wolf01>SDL_winrt_main_NonXAML.cpp must be compiled with /ZW, otherwise build errors due to missing .winmd files can occur. <- ok, this is different
07:18<andythenorth>I found this sprite in Squid, unused http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8895/pax_cats.png
07:19<@Alberth>+1, has cats, so sam compatible
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07:22<andythenorth>not sure about including big ferries http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kplu/files/styles/x_large/public/201407/AP934281272119.jpg
07:28<@Alberth>larger than large???
07:29<@Alberth>we don't have many ship sets, do we?
07:29<@Alberth>everybody is a bit train-oriented :p
07:30<@Alberth>although hackalittlebit codes nice stuff
07:32<@Alberth>you'd somewhat expect that a pax ship set would exist
07:33<andythenorth>there a few attempts
07:35<andythenorth>ferry looks better shorter eh? :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8896/96px_ferry.png
07:36<andythenorth>but does it look like 720 pax?
07:39<nielsm>based on number of windows etc, something like 120-200
07:40<nielsm>and the mini above looks like 40-70
07:42<nielsm>apoligies to the OpenMSG team, but a lot of it is really jarring, and the sound level is somewhat inconsistent between tracks :(
07:42*nielsm is checking his new code with it
07:42<nielsm>OpenMSX*
07:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27976 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2018-03-11 12:43:32 +0100 )
07:43<@DorpsGek>-Add [FS#6664]: Climate-specific Action5 extra airport sprites. (PaulC)
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08:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27977 /trunk (7 files in 2 dirs) (2018-03-11 13:03:17 +0100 )
08:03<@DorpsGek>-Add [FS#6664]: Replace the office building sprite on various toyland airports with a better fitting sprite. This also affects GRFs which activate the default refinery in toyland. (PaulC)
08:03<andythenorth>:)
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08:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27978 /trunk/src (saveload/saveload.cpp table/settings.ini) (2018-03-11 13:11:09 +0100 )
08:11<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6673] (r18541): Store the map variety setting in the samegame like the other mapgen settings, so restarting maps considers it. (Samu)
08:15<andythenorth>128px large ferry http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8897/128px_ferry.png
08:15<andythenorth>ach
08:15<andythenorth>dunno, looks wrong
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>a ferry larger than a cruise ship?
08:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27979 /trunk (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp) (2018-03-11 13:18:30 +0100 )
08:18<@DorpsGek>-Add: adf88 to readme
08:20<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's same length, but looks bigger
08:20<andythenorth>and has same capacity
08:20<andythenorth>not convinced
08:20<@Alberth>I like the walking area at the top floor
08:21<@Alberth>instead of just vertical steel wall
08:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27980 /trunk (62 files in 5 dirs) (2018-03-11 13:24:32 +0100 )
08:24<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Yearly increment
08:25<LordAro>frosch123: going for the old-style new year?
08:25<frosch123>it's precisely one year after the last new year
08:25<frosch123>maybe 4 hours earlier
08:26<frosch123>also september, october, november, december make more sense this way .) so, yes old-style new year
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>it's a tiny bit silly, actually. because the new year began in march, but ended in december. the other months were "in-between" years
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>and most times it were 2 months and occasionally 3 months
08:27<frosch123>afaik there is no definite story how this happened
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>"month" here meaning one moon cycle (new moon to new moon)
08:30<andythenorth>so
08:31<andythenorth>is 'Large' the ship length, or the capacity? :(
08:31<andythenorth>I use it in both ways
08:31<@Alberth>it's somewhat related :p
08:31<andythenorth>seemed good at first
08:31<andythenorth>capacity was derived from length
08:31<@Alberth>maybe capacity is too realistic :p
08:31<andythenorth>but some ship types look silly this way
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>so the way January 1st happened was that the romans switched from lunar to solar calender, and January 1st was whatever happened to be new moon after the winter equinox that year
08:32<@Alberth>little did they realize we would never change it :p
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>it's not equinox, what's the other name? solstice
08:33<frosch123> prejustice confirmed: patches which are indented incorrectly are also broken in other ways
08:33<andythenorth>I improved the ferry, more appropriate wheelhouse size for length http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8898/128px_ferry_2.png
08:35<@Alberth>blue cabins make it friendlier :)
08:36<andythenorth>I think it's too big relative to large luxury ship
08:36<andythenorth>both are 720 pax
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08:37<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i said...
08:39<andythenorth>so I can make it shorter, or lower
08:39<andythenorth>shorter doesn't really look right, although it's a nice sprite
08:39<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8896/96px_ferry.png
08:39<andythenorth>or maybe it does
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>that looks way better
08:40<andythenorth>hmm ok
08:40<andythenorth>I think it's a better sprite
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08:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27981 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2018-03-11 13:46:05 +0100 )
08:46<@DorpsGek>-Change [FS#6679]: Check companies for bankruptcy before subtracting reoccuring monthly costs. (Samu)
08:47<andythenorth>:)
08:48<andythenorth>sea-going passenger liners?
08:48<andythenorth>or river? o_O https://qtxasset.com/Travel%20Agent%20Central-1510765464/europe-river-cruises_homepage_content_02.jpg/europe-river-cruises_homepage_content_02.jpg?SrQj97mw1kWiVhhBixpiM175kLKO62da
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08:48<@Alberth>don't think the distinction is that relevant
08:49<andythenorth>they look quite different
08:49<andythenorth>but gameplay, there's nothing between them
08:49<nielsm>I think sea-going can usually afford to go deeper into the water
08:49<@Alberth>sure, so feel free to add a few for variation
08:49<andythenorth>OpenTTD has no weather, so all ships can go on all water :)
08:49<@Alberth>nielsm: in openttd everything is 1 tile deep :)
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>there's loads of size restrictions for river ships
08:49<@Alberth>or even, 0 tiles :p
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>bridges, locks, depths
08:50<andythenorth>I think the river ship will re-introduce problem of relative sizing :P
08:50<andythenorth>but it might look nice
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i vote no on the river ships, as long as there is no useful gameplay distinction
08:50<andythenorth>it's more just a choice of sprite
08:50<andythenorth>there are river ships for freight
08:50<@Alberth>name it sea ship, so it's the user fault if used at a river :p
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08:54<andythenorth>I should break the size rules :P
08:55<andythenorth>currently it's 128px, 96px, 64px
08:55<andythenorth>which looks good and makes offsets easy
08:55<andythenorth>but ferry is better at 104px :P
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09:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27982 trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp (2018-03-11 14:17:44 +0100 )
09:17<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Reduce invocations of GetGlobalVariable. Speedup sprite resolving by about 3 percent.
09:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27983 trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp (2018-03-11 14:18:13 +0100 )
09:18<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Reduce complexity of VA2 add-div/mod adjustments
09:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27984 /trunk/src (23 files) (2018-03-11 14:19:41 +0100 )
09:19<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Make ScopeResolver constructors/destructors inlineable. Speedup sprite resolving by about 8 percent.
09:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27985 /trunk/src (3 files) (2018-03-11 14:21:27 +0100 )
09:21<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Convert VA2 switches into ones with non-overlapping ranges, sort them and resolve them using binary search. Speedup sprite resolving by about 7 percent.
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09:22<@Alberth>:O nice!
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09:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27986 /trunk/src (tile_type.h vehicle.cpp) (2018-03-11 14:23:26 +0100 )
09:23<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Name magic constants in the vehicle position hash functions.
09:23<frosch123>the patch series is incomplete though
09:24<frosch123>there is potential for a lot more optimisation, but i did not finish that
09:24<andythenorth>:)
09:25*andythenorth pulls
09:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27987 trunk/src/tile_type.h (2018-03-11 14:25:26 +0100 )
09:25<@DorpsGek>-Change: Increase maximum allowed vehicle sprite size to reduce clipping of ships.
09:25<andythenorth>also nice
09:25<andythenorth>I don't have to post a video of my test game :)
09:25<frosch123>your ships should clipp less now, though noone complained :p
09:25<andythenorth>I complained, but I didn't file a good bug report
09:27<nielsm>hey frosch123 could you add this to .gitignore ?
09:27<nielsm>projects/.vs/
09:27<nielsm>(and maybe other .*ignore files too)
09:27<nielsm>since visual studio 2015 likes to put user settings files in that location
09:30<frosch123>ms using "." for hidden files now? :p
09:31<nielsm>yep, going hybrid
09:31<nielsm>(it still gets marked with the ntfs/fat "hidden" attributed too)
09:32<frosch123>lowercase "vs"?
09:32<nielsm>yes
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09:33<andythenorth>hmm
09:33<frosch123>oh, it was already in svn:ignore
09:34<andythenorth>my 1.7.1 savegame is broken in r27987
09:34<andythenorth>I changed newgrfs a lot in it, so eh
09:34<andythenorth>probly not valid
09:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27988 /trunk (.gitignore .hgignore) (2018-03-11 14:34:28 +0100 )
09:34<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Extent hg- and gitignore for .vs
09:35<frosch123>andythenorth: for what value of broken?
09:35<frosch123>i added a Samu patch which did savegame version stuff
09:35<andythenorth>yeah clean 1.7.1 savegame is broken loading in r27987
09:35<andythenorth>industries are showing mine sprite
09:35<nielsm>I hope my birds will let me continue cleaning up my patches... they keep coming over to occupy my hands
09:35<andythenorth>newgrf vehicles fall back to original sprites
09:35<andythenorth>no newgrf errors are reported
09:36<andythenorth>newgrf stations might be working
09:36<andythenorth>ok it's isolated to industries maybe in this save
09:36<andythenorth>properties are correct
09:37<andythenorth>oh and all industries closed after a few months
09:37<frosch123>hmm, i thought i tested these patches in january :p
09:38<Mazur>Did you check the sell-by date?
09:39<andythenorth>is it the new VA2?
09:39*andythenorth hasn't tried bisecting yet
09:39<frosch123>the VA2 one is the most critical change :)
09:40<andythenorth>in a room with 9 other people
09:40<andythenorth>somewhat loud :P
09:42<frosch123>my testgame with nuts and yeti looks fine, but i see that firs is borked
09:45<andythenorth>sorry :)
09:46<frosch123>well, it's the first time that we reorder newgrf instructions :p processor manufacturers also got trouble with that
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i see we're totally release ready :p
09:49<peter1138>Hmm
09:51<LordAro>frosch123: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/binary_search ?
09:52<frosch123>LordAro: std::lower_bound in this case, but more or less the same
09:52<LordAro>ah yes, i see it
09:53<frosch123>anyway, that part has an assertion, so the issure must be within newgrf.cpp with the recompilation
09:56<frosch123>ah, found it
09:56<frosch123>missing "break"
09:56<peter1138>now it's no longer 10% faster ;)
09:57<frosch123>the testcase is not affected :)
09:57<frosch123>hmm, still borked
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10:05<supermop>yo
10:05<andythenorth>lo supermop
10:05<supermop>here is a puzzle: currently i use lots of sprite stacks for trucks and trailers
10:06<supermop>i'd like rigid trucks to use the newer cargo and truck body sprites i've made for trailers and industrial trams
10:07<supermop>but there has to be some compromise as the rigid truck needs a cab and possibly trolley poles as part of the same stack, using up slots
10:10<supermop>currently i do: chassis/truck bed(+ cargo)/cab/trolley poles for truck facing camera, and cab/chassis/bed(+ cargo)/poles for facing away
10:10<andythenorth>what's the puzzle? :)
10:11<supermop>works fine except i need a separate sprite for every combination of cargo, load amount, and bed variant
10:11<supermop>like open truck, flat bed, different hoppers/dump trucks
10:11<andythenorth>you didn't split the cargo and body?
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10:12<supermop>differentiating between bars or rolls of metal is impractical
10:12<supermop>with trailers, the cargo is a separate sprite layered between the bed bottom/rear and top/side
10:13<supermop>so it can easily be changed or even recolored separate from the trailer itself
10:14<supermop>give large flexibility and variety of cargo graphics and trailer variant for just a few sprites
10:15<supermop>even if i combine the chassis with the truck bed for rigid trucks, i still would need body/cargo/sides/cab/trolley poles
10:15<supermop>5 > 4
10:16<supermop>so i wonder if there is a better way to combine things to free up one more space
10:16<supermop>which seems easier than getting frosch123 to give me one more layer in the stack that is not a power of 2
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10:22<@Alberth>add the bed/sides to the cargo?
10:22<@Alberth>likely by computing the result while building the grf
10:23<supermop>adding bed and sides to cargo gives very large number of sprites,
10:23<supermop>basically situation i have now
10:23<frosch123>it should be vehicle back, cargo, vehicle front: 3 layers
10:24<frosch123>i don't quite understand where the other layers come from
10:24<supermop>trolley pole
10:24<andythenorth>compositing :P
10:24<andythenorth>in PIL
10:24<andythenorth>this is better http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8900/pax_cats_2.png
10:24<andythenorth>but not happy yet
10:24<supermop>pole needs to overlap both the front and rear halves of vehicle
10:24<andythenorth>the ships with 4 funnels are both 720 pax
10:25<supermop>luxury ship needs more luxury
10:25<supermop>like a pool or deck tennis or something
10:26<supermop>or greeble on top roof/deck
10:26<supermop>frosch123: part of the vehicle back overlaps the cargo as well
10:27<@Alberth>top ship front chimneys shade not too dark?
10:27<andythenorth>luxury is hard to see
10:27<frosch123>when i say "vehicle back" i mean "back" in screen Z orientation
10:27<frosch123>so "vehicle back" is always behind the cargo
10:27<supermop>the 'open truck' has sides which overlap the metal or whatever by a few pixels, whereas the flatbeds dont for the same cargo
10:28<andythenorth>2 decks on the luxury ship, not 3, looks sleeker http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8901/pax_luxury_2_deck.png
10:28<supermop>well i could add the 'sides' to the cab then for views where truck faces camera, and add the body to the cab for facing away
10:29<andythenorth>how about vehicles in vehicles? o_O
10:29<nielsm>greeble on cruise-ish ship: http://0x0.st/smFI.jpg
10:29<andythenorth>then we could have 4 layers of 4 layers
10:29<supermop>still looks odd without greeble andythenorth
10:29<@Alberth>much more luxury :)
10:29<supermop>like, pax can walk right around funnels
10:30<nielsm>tiny local ferry: http://0x0.st/smF0.jpg
10:32<andythenorth>supermop: I did pure blue for trawlers in end https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1203742#p1203742
10:32<andythenorth>mixed blue + CC looked weird
10:32<supermop>frosch123: combining the cabs with parts of beds is probably less of combinatorial explosion, but does mean there will need to be specific cabs for each type and generation of rigid trucks
10:32<nielsm>view down of second-highest outside deck: http://0x0.st/smFG.jpg
10:33<supermop>instead of current where there is one cab sprite (and one alternate livery) for each generation, regardless of truck type
10:34<andythenorth>supermop: give in, use PIL :)
10:34<@Alberth>+1
10:34<supermop>so a 4th gen rigid trolley truck, and 4th gen semi diesel truck use same cab
10:34<andythenorth>I use PIL + the sprite layers combined
10:34<supermop>andythenorth: if python makes me 1000s of sprites i still have to define and reference them?
10:34<andythenorth>well then you just generate the code :P
10:35<supermop>making the sprite in PS isn't hard
10:35<supermop>well yes that's the next step
10:35<supermop>but can i learn to do that in < 20 days
10:35<andythenorth>no :)
10:35<andythenorth>this is my cargo switches http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/templates/vehicle_with_visible_cargo.pynml
10:35<andythenorth>89 lines
10:35<supermop>as i want a functional-ish grf on bananas april 1
10:36<@Alberth>but you decide to make one change to the cabin, and you'll have 40 days
10:36<andythenorth>it's about 20 days work to set up sprite compositing
10:36<andythenorth>and that's assuming you know python and have a compile
10:36<supermop>my current thinking is i wont change rigid trucks at all before 1.0 release
10:37<supermop>as they work now, just with less fun cargo sprites than trailers
10:37<@Alberth>the profit of automating is that changing becomes feasible
10:38<supermop>andythenorth: add some boxy thing around base of funnels and some lumps for life rafts?
10:38<andythenorth>probably
10:38<andythenorth>I am -1 to greeble mostly
10:38<supermop>heh
10:39<andythenorth>it looks bad in TTD
10:39<supermop>composite of the funels to make them randomly change
10:39<supermop>hehe
10:48<nielsm>lol, I think one of the songs in OpenMSX changes the pitch bend controller range, which causes external synths to sound weird afterwards
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10:51<andythenorth>2 giant ugly funnels? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8902/fugly.png
10:53<nielsm>I think they should be in conjunction with the helm, considering how they would block space in the interior
10:54<nielsm>and maybe add a fence separating the top deck area with the funnels from the rest, so part of the deck can be open to passengers
10:57<supermop>not a fan of the fat funnels
10:57<supermop>should be 4 ocean liner style, or two modern looking ones
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11:01<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8903/is_luxury_sam_2.png
11:01<andythenorth>is not better, but shows an idea
11:01<nielsm>I like that large luxury one, and the small luxury also looks reasonably believable
11:02<nielsm>the four corners funnels of the fast-loading seems strange to me
11:03<frosch123>why did i fell into the same newgrf trap that i explained to others dozen of times :/
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11:04<andythenorth>frosch123: what trap? o_O
11:04<frosch123>the numranges=0 case returning the calculated result
11:08<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27989 /trunk/src (3 files) (2018-03-11 16:08:51 +0100 )
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Fix (r27985): VA2 optimisation failed in various special cases:
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - nvar=0 is meant to return the calculated result.
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Missing references resolve to NULL and got identified with the default result.
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Missing 'break' broke overlapping cases.
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
11:09<frosch123>andythenorth: firs better now?
11:09*andythenorth tests
11:11<andythenorth>frosch123: wfm :)
11:16<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8904/2-funnel.png
11:16<andythenorth>2 funnels
11:19<andythenorth>also luxury 2 funnel http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8905/is_luxury_sam_3.png
11:21<nielsm>2-funnel.png <- this is really good
11:23<andythenorth>less weird eh?
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11:38<nielsm>okay, finished cleaning up my music patches and put them up on bugtracker now
11:41<nielsm>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6683 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5807 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6684 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6685
11:43<andythenorth>luxury ship just doesn't look luxury :)
11:43<andythenorth>looks like a ferry
11:43<andythenorth>ok biab
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13:37<andythenorth>frosch123: ships do indeed flicker less :)
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14:00<andythenorth>so a luxury ship should look like this http://www.captainsvoyage.com/_Media/2013_04_08-serenissimacruis_med-3.jpeg
14:00<andythenorth>maybe not just standard CC?
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14:21<@Alberth>no blue/yellow cc ?
14:21<@Alberth>looks nice that colour combination :)
14:25<andythenorth>it does
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>why would the pacifists go mad just because you declared war on someone, to bring them peace and democracy?
14:29<andythenorth>this attempt is remarkably bad :) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8906/harald_jarl_ish.png
14:29<andythenorth>supposed to be http://www.cruiseshipportal.com/fileadmin/photos/schiffe/kreuzfahrtschiffe/HaraldJarl.jpg
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>uhm wtf does it have a cargo crane for?
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>also, it should be much smaller
14:30<andythenorth>to fill the horrible gap
14:31<andythenorth>previous attempt was much more consistent http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8905/is_luxury_sam_3.png
14:31<andythenorth>but boring
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>you changed the cruise ship for this one, which is tiny, but you kept the size
14:32<andythenorth>the ship is quite large IRL compared to the RL freight shiops
14:32<andythenorth>but yeah, the appearance is off
14:32<andythenorth>ships are very hard to judge
14:35<andythenorth>the IRL pax ship is 87m, compared to about 65m for the IRL freight ships
14:36<andythenorth>I think reducing it is distorting all the proportions, makes it ugly
14:38<@Alberth>don't have a large pax ship?
14:38<andythenorth>it's an option
14:38<andythenorth>I like the challenge though
14:39<@Alberth>:)
14:39<@Alberth>in that case, carry on :)
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14:40<andythenorth>this would be a better IRL subject http://www.cruisemapper.com/images/ships/767-large-f6b6fa7cb2bd7cbcc313159961f3c6ee.jpg
14:40<andythenorth>it's the right length, and doesn't have complicated sloping shapes
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14:56<@Alberth>differences are too small to distinguish all the ships you find :)
14:59<andythenorth>I never actually draw a RL ship
14:59<andythenorth>I synthesise a lot of bits of RL ships
15:09<andythenorth>this is better, it's chunky http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8907/is_luxury_sam_4.png
15:10<frosch123>there is no pool on deck
15:10<frosch123>what else would you want when surrounded by water?
15:12<andythenorth>my water cycle doesn't work :P
15:12<andythenorth>so no pool :)
15:14<@Alberth>gap at the front-deck is weird, perhaps make the back deck larger?
15:14<@Alberth>(of the large luxury pax ship)
15:15<@Alberth>frosch: sun bathing, but not enough pixels probably
15:16<frosch123>yeah, not enough pixels for a golf course
15:16<@Alberth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffleboard is also an option :)
15:16<@Alberth>still too detailed though
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15:55<Wolf01>Wow, still arranging pixels?
15:57<andythenorth>smoothed it out http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8908/is_luxury_sam_5.png
15:57<andythenorth>but I think I preferred the one with the clunky step
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15:58<Wolf01>Meh, I won't be able to compile that game, if I fix one problem 10 more pop up
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16:03<+michi_cc>andythenorth: It's not exactly a luxury vessel :), but if you want passengers with cranes: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RMV_Scillonian_III_docked_at_St_Mary%27s_harbour.jpg
16:04<andythenorth>michi_cc: that's pretty much the small one :)
16:04<andythenorth>I haven't drawn the mail ships yet ;)
16:05<andythenorth>https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/a9/07/1ca90737e8af7bfd8ba29b0b0b7a6ed0.jpg o_O
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16:07<frosch123>something about mail and ship is weird when combined :p
16:07<andythenorth>this is the other ship for Scilly Isles https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3736/19668208555_24ec7d7906_b.jpg
16:08<andythenorth>somewhat the small piece goods carrier http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8892/pax_sam_blah_blah.png
16:13<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8909/sam%20is.png
16:13<andythenorth>fast loading pax ship, payment bonus pax ship
16:14<andythenorth>and for comparison, livestock, trawler, beer tanker
16:28<frosch123>https://imgur.com/gallery/kQbMe <- not edible :p
16:30<andythenorth>ha ha
16:31<andythenorth>is it FIRS :)
16:31<andythenorth>nope, original industries
16:31<andythenorth>the sawmill is excellent
16:32<frosch123>clay has issues with sharp edges
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16:34<andythenorth>inherent anti-aliasing
16:35<Wolf01>I give up
16:35<frosch123>new artstyle for V?
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16:40<andythenorth>:P
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17:06<andythenorth>bue
17:06<andythenorth>bye *
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18:42<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 12 00:00:43 2018