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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-03-19

---Logopened Mon Mar 19 00:00:53 2018
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06:42<Eddi|zuHause>how is it that when a game comes with an OST, the one song i'm interested in is not part of that OST?
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>... spent half the night trying to find a .hpk unpacker that runs on linux, ended up installing freepascal and commenting out lines from a windows command line tool written in delphi, until it compiled
06:51<Sacro>is there no fuckit for delphi?
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>what's a fuckit?
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>delphi isn't an interpreted language
06:52<Sacro>Bascally just hotpatches the code to ignore any errors
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>but last time i programmed delphi was like 15 years ago
06:54<Sacro>println and such
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, the errors were mostly of the kind of missing referenced libraries that i figured i don't actually need for this particular case
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>like zlib
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>or some file called "unit1.pas" that wasn't included in the source
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>or "Windows"
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>and then all lines that failed on undeclared identifiers from those...
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and find the -Mdelphi switch for freepascal
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: everything on that page screams "OMG is this horrible!" to me
07:13<_dp_>lol, I just went from reading mypy docs to fuckit ones
07:13<SpComb>which one is the better choice
07:14<_dp_>I'll stick with mypy for now
07:14<Sacro>Yeah it's horrible :P
07:15<_dp_>fuckit doesn't seem to be a wise choice for financial code :p
07:15<Sacro>It's for your frontend too
07:17<_dp_>js is shitty enough even without it :p
07:18<Sacro>I'm a JS dev and I resemble that remakr
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: fuckit doesn't seem to be a wise choice for any code that you intend to run more than once
07:19<Sacro>But for that once when you *really* want to plough through regardless
07:20<Sacro>Like the "Pass signal at red" button in TTD
07:20<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, ... even once
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, even pressing that button once can result in a fireball
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: i still much rather plough through the code and consider what the code was meant to do before commenting it out
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07:34<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: and I'd rather automate that :)
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07:39<peter1138>Why is it not lunch time yet.
07:40<peter1138>Also, damn, I just missed me o'clock.
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>i actually did notice you o'clock about an hour ago
07:46<__ln__>about two hours ago
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08:11<peter1138>UTC is the only one that matters.
08:13<__ln__>then you should be called peter1138utc
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08:22<peter1138>Anyway, nearly food time.
08:22<peter1138>I'm ravenous.
08:27<__ln__>anyway, what language will we choose as the preferred channel language after brexit?
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12:50<@Alberth>newconomy eh?
12:50<andythenorth>haven't tested yet
12:50<andythenorth>but interesting
12:50<@Alberth>me neither, but nice that it appears like this
12:51<andythenorth>a lot of FIRS 3 was unseen rewriting of code to pure python, no C pre-processor
12:51<andythenorth>which makes it easier for people to hack FIRS
12:52<andythenorth>I'm encouraging forks
12:52<@Alberth>it works, apparently
12:52<andythenorth>as long as they're hands-free, i.e. no support :P
12:53<@Alberth>that seems to work here too :)
12:53<andythenorth>so anyone here done any fuzz testing / chaos monkey ever?
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13:33<Sacro>andythenorth: I click a lot of things
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13:41<andythenorth>are you repeatable? :P
13:41<andythenorth>do you log all your actions? o_O
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13:48<Wolf01>Back from the lego weekend
13:49<Wolf01>andythenorth: I've some pictures of model ships which are really cool
13:52<Wolf01>6000m2 of lego exposition, 2 days to take pictures of everything S_S
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14:00<@Alberth>@calc 3000 / (8*60*60)
14:00<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 0.104166666667
14:00<@Alberth>@calc 3000 / (8*60)
14:00<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 6.25
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14:01<@Alberth>6m^2 / minute? "o
14:01<Wolf01>Could be
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if that is a helpful figure :p
14:01<@Alberth>probably not, but it's fun :p
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14:38<Wolf01> they changed city road settings mid-game?
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15:11<LordAro>Wolf01: more like when 2 towns merge together
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15:43<nielsm>hmm I get instant crash when selecting hebrew as language
15:43<nielsm>in the ParagraphLayouter code
15:44<nielsm>oddly didn't have problems when I tried Arabic (Egypt)
15:44<frosch123>icu is completely broken on windows lately
15:44<frosch123>i have no idea whether due to new windows, new fonts, or from a compile farm update 3 years ago
15:44<nielsm>uhh... japanese sure selects a huge font size
15:45<nielsm>the game options window can't fit on my 1080p display
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16:20<nielsm>frosch123 can't be compile farm, I don't think, since this is my own compile ;)
16:21<+glx>icu is a monster anyway ;)
16:21<nielsm>although yes I do use the ICU from the dependencies package download offered
16:22<LordAro>frosch123: needs new compile farm
16:26<nielsm>so, when's that new github repos coming online? I want to make some pull requests :D
16:27<LordAro>not for at least a week, probably
16:28<nielsm>okay the hebrew crash happens inside ICU, not in OTTD code
16:28<LordAro>doesn't mean it's not OTTD's bug :p
16:29<nielsm>the call from OTTD causing the crash seems to be correct
16:30<frosch123>nielsm: there are about a dozen fs tasks about those crashes
16:30<frosch123>they started like 2 years ago
16:30<nielsm>even better: seems to be random!
16:30<nielsm>no changes and it didn't crash this time
16:31<nielsm>but then did once I clicked around some more
16:32<frosch123>that is common for invalid reads and writes
16:32<frosch123>only pure null pointer usages are reproducible
16:34<LordAro>probably worth looking through ICU release notes for the last few years, see if anything looks relevant
16:34<LordAro>alternatively, implement a pango layer for the text layout engine, and upgrade it :p
16:35<+glx>and all its dependancies ?
16:37<orudge>TrueBrain: ooh, github. I've claimed ;) If you're adding folk to the project you can add me there.
16:39<LordAro>omg, 8th contributor
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16:50<+glx>orudge: I tried something but I don't know if it worked
16:52<orudge>glx: it seems to have worked, thanks
16:54<peter1138>github smells
16:55<TrueBrain>frosch123: I am going to leave it to you who you want to add as Owner of the OpenTTD organization, and who in the Developer Team
16:55<TrueBrain>both give enough permissions to do what-ever on the OpenTTD repository
16:55<TrueBrain>Owner gives more rights ;)
16:55<TrueBrain>I am unsure it is wise to make every Developer an Owner, as hitting the wrong button is an easy mistake
16:56<+glx>wrong buttons are written in red at least ;)
16:56<TrueBrain>not all, sadly
16:57<andythenorth>is the 'add coin-mining malware' button easy to press?
16:57<frosch123>well, i will rely on people to hint at their account :)
16:57<LANJesus>wait, openttd is switching to git/github?
16:58<TrueBrain>frosch123: I was talking about owner vs developer, not adding in general :)
16:58<frosch123>TrueBrain: anyway, switch before or after 1.8.0 tag?
16:58<frosch123>mostly depends on switching the farm, so maybe after?
16:58<TrueBrain>is 1.8 on schedule?
16:58<LordAro>after is probably easier
16:58<frosch123>the branch is done, i wonder which titlegame to add
16:59<TrueBrain>if on schedule, after; that gives us another year to iron out any bugs
16:59<TrueBrain>would be a shame to delay 1.8 because of this
16:59<TrueBrain>also a good start of 1.9
17:00<frosch123>but we can more fs earlier
17:00<frosch123>so we can already redirect people there
17:01<peter1138>Hmm, I already have claimed, somehow.
17:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: indeed; well, next weekend is the earliest option, but we need people to validate the repo first. I am running a new Issue import as we speak .. tomorrow the git content will follow ..
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17:03<peter1138>What's the plan anyway? I've not seen anything written :p
17:04<+glx>the main goal is to take advantage of pull requests
17:04<peter1138>There's probably some long forgotten IRC channel that I, er, forgot about.
17:04<peter1138>Anything changing with SVN?
17:04-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
17:04<frosch123>nothing in that irc channel
17:05<frosch123>github will become main repo, svn will be readonly. git will be fast-forward merge only
17:05<frosch123>newgrf and bananas version will drop the revision number
17:06<LordAro>worked out how nightlies will be versioned?
17:06*andythenorth wonders who will do first pull request :P
17:06<andythenorth>probably needs to be something already on github, right? o_O
17:06<LANJesus>version using tags and ISO date code
17:06<frosch123>LordAro: ingame versions will display as "YYYYMMDD-gXYZ"
17:06<LordAro>andythenorth: i could probably come up with something pretty quickly
17:07<LANJesus>nightly-20180319 or so
17:07<LordAro>frosch123: only XYZ? or a longer part of the hash?
17:07<+glx>8 chars IIRC
17:07<LANJesus>don't need the hash if using tags
17:07<andythenorth>LordAro: it couldn't be this, it doesn't merge :P
17:07<+glx>same as hg
17:07<frosch123>LordAro: whatever does not look silly :)
17:07<LordAro>glx: well, 8 is default, until you have enough commits that you start getting conflicts :p
17:08<+glx>we support it already
17:08<LANJesus>what is the potential for having more than one nightly in 24hr period?
17:08<LordAro>LANJesus: tag per nightly seems unnecessary
17:08<frosch123>unless you want to break the github gui :p
17:08<peter1138>LANJesus, when the clocks change ;)
17:08<nielsm>would be more reasonable to name the nightly builds after the revision?
17:09<LANJesus>revision of what?
17:09<+glx>not with git
17:09<nielsm>both date and revision
17:09<nielsm>I mean
17:09<LordAro>21:06:57 < frosch123> LordAro: ingame versions will display as "YYYYMMDD-gXYZ"
17:09<peter1138>21:06 < frosch123> LordAro: ingame versions will display as "YYYYMMDD-gXYZ"
17:09<LANJesus>the revision should be master or develop (depending on branching strategy)
17:09<LordAro>peter1138: ^5
17:09<nielsm>just to make it clear, in case someone was pushing changes just around build time
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17:10<LANJesus>nielsm: what do you mean by revision?
17:10<+glx>we usually don't commit at nightly time :)
17:10<+glx>just to be sage
17:10<LANJesus>does openttd have CI currently?
17:10<+glx>of course we have
17:11<andythenorth>bears, woods etc
17:11<LANJesus>cool. excuse my ignorance. i've not poked at the openttd official dev stuff in a decade or so
17:11<LANJesus>i've made some branches on github from OpenTTD/OpenTTD
17:11<frosch123>it already had CI 10 years ago :p
17:11<LANJesus>you're expecting me to remember 10 years ago : P
17:12<TrueBrain>it has a CI since 2004 ...
17:12<peter1138> staying?
17:12<LordAro>LANJesus: you'll need to rebase, that's the old repo with old hashes
17:12<LANJesus>the old repo is still the active repo, yes?
17:13<LordAro>currently, yes
17:13<peter1138> :-)
17:13<LANJesus>then i'll burn that bridge when i get to it ; )
17:13<peter1138>Are those poor mercurial users left out?
17:13<TrueBrain>all VCSes on will go read-only peter1138 :)
17:13<peter1138>(Was there any left?)
17:13<andythenorth>mercurial lost :)
17:13<LordAro>peter1138: Alberth & planetmaker, i think :p
17:13<peter1138>It was shit.
17:13<andythenorth>I use it for newgrfs
17:13<LANJesus>git makes it easier to shoot yourself in the foot
17:13<andythenorth>I keep spelling 'hg' as 'git' though :P
17:13<LANJesus>and unshoot yourself after a few googlings, since everyone uses it
17:14<peter1138>Hah yeah
17:14<andythenorth>hg is easy
17:14<peter1138>I need to build some CI system for work :S
17:14<andythenorth>you just delete the repo if *anything* didn't work as expected
17:14<andythenorth>and start again
17:14<peter1138>There's a gitea system.
17:14<peter1138>As raw git is slightly painful when your users don't know what ssh is.
17:14<andythenorth>it was years before I dared do a merge in hg :P
17:15<LANJesus>i frequently use sourcetree for a git frontend
17:15<LANJesus>and visual studio's git frontend is getting better. i still find it clunky though
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17:17<LANJesus>in git, any commit can turn into a merge
17:21<TrueBrain>frosch123: if this issue import round succeeds, the import scripts are all done and automated
17:21<TrueBrain>found a nice bug in the issue import script .. URLs to attachment with a space didnt work :P
17:21<TrueBrain>but that is fixed now :)
17:21<TrueBrain>PR policy on GitHub can be applied, and works fine
17:21<+glx>I saw you closed an issue manually too
17:21<TrueBrain>the thing I am not sure yet what the best approach is, either setting up a new compile farm and linking it to docker, or reusing the current
17:22<TrueBrain>glx: in the last import, yes; in the current I did not touch a thing :)
17:22<TrueBrain>(still has 3k tickets to go)
17:22<frosch123>the docker farm is more uptodate for linux and osx
17:22<TrueBrain>I am very tempted to start a new compile-farm; new Bamboo integrates a lot better with git
17:22<+glx>oh I didn't noticed the "spam" ;)
17:22<TrueBrain>yeah .. Windows is the biggest PITA there
17:22<frosch123>so if we can already switch those, that would be great
17:23<TrueBrain>if we move after release, there is more time fixing Windows after migration
17:23<TrueBrain>either way, next weekend I hope to experiment a bit with it
17:23<TrueBrain>also gives us some time to create fake PRs, and see how everything interacts
17:25<TrueBrain>but for now, good night! we will see tomorrow if the import survived :D
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17:33<peter1138>"Your bike is currently in a build queue, awaiting assembly. It joined the queue today and this process can take up to 5 days, after which it will be sent to you."
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17:34<Wolf01>I purchased a new mattress instead :P
17:34<+glx>made in lego ? ;)
17:35<Wolf01>Nah, 3 types of foam :D
17:35<Wolf01>Still plastic
17:43<peter1138>So's the bike.
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17:43<LordAro>peter1138: what'd you get?
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17:45<peter1138>Wasn't particularly looking for another Cube, just this was on sale which is rare to find in XXL sizes.
17:46<peter1138>It's mostly matt actually, heh./
17:46<peter1138>I might stick some reflective crap all over it.
17:47<peter1138>I remember back in the day when you could actually just choose the colour of your bike.
17:47<peter1138>2x11 is a bit oldschool these days for MTBs but it'll do.
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18:17<andythenorth>bed innit
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18:28<supermop>love these helpful error messages: "[Knmlc ERROR: nmlc: An internal error has occurred: nmlc-version: unknown Error: (AssertionError) . Command: ['nmlc', 'moprv64.nml'] Location: File "nml\", line 166, in prepare_dword"
18:28<supermop>thanks nmlc
18:30<LordAro>supermop: i recommend not doing that
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18:30<supermop>LordAro: recommend not getting weird messages?
18:31<supermop>just added a new recoloring for new layer of a sprite stack, and i am sure i did it wrong, but that error message doesn't really indicate that
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18:36<+glx> if -0x80000000 <= value < 0: value += 0x100000000
18:36<+glx> assert value >= 0 and value <= 0xFFFFFFFF
18:36<+glx>the error is in the assert
18:38<+glx>so a value in your file is too big to be an unsigned double
18:39<supermop>that's the only thing changed since it last worked
18:40<supermop>trying to figure out how to rewrite my stack to use different recoloring per layer
18:40<+glx>I can't help more, I know nothing about nml
18:42<supermop>no problem, but nothing in the switch seems like it would have much to do with dwords
18:42<supermop>as compared to its prior wording
18:42<supermop>so i'm just going to blindly change it till it works
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18:42<+glx>getbits probably use dword
18:44<+glx>STORE_TEMP too
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18:51<supermop>nml specs state that you can set a separate recoloring for each iteration of the sprite stack
18:51<supermop>but it's not clear to me how so i am just guessing where to put that information
18:52<supermop>"When enabled, sprites are resolved multiple times while incrementing an iteration number, that can be read via getbits(extra_callback_info1, 8, 8) Currently this is limited to at most 4 sprites per articulated part. In addition you need to set register 100 as additional result: STORE_TEMP(CB_FLAG_MORE_SPRITES | recolouring, 0x100) if there are more sprites to draw. STORE_TEMP(recolouring, 0x100) if there are no more sprite
18:54<+glx>hmm maybe it doesn't like getbits() < 0
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18:56<+glx>or if this test pass it's always false
18:56<+glx>the the result is always 1
18:56<supermop>that compiles without error
18:56<supermop>lets see if works in game
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18:59<supermop>well not really
19:00<+glx>would be easier with a helpful error message ;)
19:01<supermop>so it will compile, but now i dont get the 2nd sprite stacked in game
19:02<supermop>and the first sprite is recolored orange instead of 1cc
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19:35<supermop>yeah, seems like ill need to test for that incrementing number somehow, but that just gets me back to the same error
19:39<Eddi|zuHause><supermop> love these helpful error messages: [...] <-- i think there's a flag that lets nmlc pass the actual internal error/backtrace instead of catching it and rethrowing this message
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19:42<Eddi|zuHause>ah, it's "-s"
19:44<supermop>tbh that doesn't mean much more to me but i guess it's a start
19:45<supermop>and nothing here:
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>next step would be to throw that into a
19:45<supermop>really lays out how to structure the switch in such a way that each iteration gets its own recolor
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>haven't really looked at that yet
19:48<supermop>now i dont even really understand how the stuff that i had working before worked
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19:57<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: what i would do in the situation with the assert, is run "python -i /path/to/nmlc args", and after the assert, run "import pdb" and ""
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>then you can look around the state of the program at the time the assert was thrown
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>like trying to find out what value it wanted to write, and where it came from
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>(note that "python" should be "python3" probably, and if on windows, nmlc is wrapped in some .exe file, that won't really work)
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21:53<LANJesus>aww snap. progress!
21:54<LANJesus>emoji just to make sure encodings aren't getting hosed. woop woop.
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 20 00:00:54 2018