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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-03-29

---Logopened Thu Mar 29 00:00:06 2018
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08:40-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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09:47<supermop_work>well transporter mostly drawn
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09:55<supermop_work_>hi Alberth
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10:09<test12345>Hm, wanted to see if there was some more discussion concerning yesterday's question :p
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10:18<test12345>^ Have you seen this?
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10:37<test12345>May I ask a serious question now -- how can I make a scenario using a heightmap?
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10:39<@Alberth>there is "load height map" in the scenario editor
10:40<test12345>I can't find it though. I see a plain terrain
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10:41<@Alberth>main menu -> scenario editor -> save icon drop down -> load height map -> enter/click filename -> load done
10:41<@Alberth>did you even check the dropdown menus?
10:43<test12345>I had checked some of them, but not the save icon
10:43<@Alberth>clearly you hadn't :)
10:44<test12345>Anyway, thank you. It works! :-)
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13:08<Wolf01>Nice, I have 42kbps of bandwidth
13:26<@Alberth>as long as you don't use it? :)
13:26<Wolf01>It's just enough to let me use irc and telegram
13:27<@Alberth>oh, real k bits :(
13:28<@Alberth>but yeah, irc works, I started using that at 2400 baud :)
13:28<Wolf01>Took 20 minutes to download 15MB of updates
13:30<Wolf01>But the worst is the lag... like 2 seconds
13:33<RafiX>I know this pain
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13:43<Wolf01>Ha! My speed test is "download test error"
13:43<Wolf01>BTW, ping is 786ms
13:44<RafiX>mine can be even slower
13:44<Wolf01>Usually I have 1.6-2.5 seconds
13:45<andythenorth>Wolf01: so I wondered about industry placement preview
13:45<andythenorth>I suspect it might be slow, as it would need to run the full industry callback chain, for all tiles
13:45<andythenorth>but it's an interesting problem
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r28000 trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt (2018-03-29 19:45:40 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>welsh: 7 changes by kazzie
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13:48<Wolf01>Ok, the provider unleashed the hamsters now, back on standard speed/ping
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13:59<Eddi|zuHause>oh i remember the days where i spent a whole day on ISDN downloading one CD
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to have misconfigured my steam somehow, it schedules uptates for totally random times, instead of downloading them right away
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>which is completely useless
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14:03<Wolf01>Nah, it's doing that for me too
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>but why would it assume that i am somehow less busy in 6 hours?
14:03<Wolf01>Some 1MB updates get scheduled for "tomorrow noon", other 4.5GB updates start immediately
14:03<Wolf01>And I don't have any prioritized game
14:07<andythenorth>I should play OpenTTD
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>that borders on blasphemy
14:07<andythenorth>I don't have an NRT grf
14:08<ST2>I see a Tanks riot on the horizon xD
14:08<andythenorth>and I have to play NRT
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>test nrt without any nrt grf
14:08<andythenorth>it's a thing
14:14<Wolf01>andythenorth: We need a selection of tiles to show where the industry may be placed, with white/red tiles, if the industry can change shape the tiles might be yellow if they meet an obstacle
14:15<Wolf01>Eh, wallyweb suggested exactly that
14:15<andythenorth>there are some in JGR for the zones things
14:16<andythenorth>like the station catchment tiles, but recoloured
14:16<Wolf01>Yes, I know
14:16<andythenorth>oh we have the red one already for station remove
14:16<andythenorth>so we have 3 colours in core ottd
14:17<Wolf01>We might give it a look together
14:18<andythenorth>I have concerns about performance, but let's not worry about that :D
14:19<Pikka>just make all industries prospecting, problem solved :P
14:20<andythenorth>I considered a 1 tile survey camp
14:20<andythenorth>industries prospect near it
14:20<andythenorth>then it closes
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14:33<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: i'd much rather have it so you can choose the layout, instead of weird colour games
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the zoning patch doesn't add colours, it's already done by recoloring in trunk. it just adds an inner highlight rectangle to complement the existing outer one
14:38<andythenorth>choosing the layout might not be as desirable as you think
14:38<andythenorth>it puts more work on you
14:39<andythenorth>I am not -1 to the idea, but I don't think it's the primary improvemewnt
14:40<andythenorth>Wolf01: it's probably two patches
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14:40<andythenorth>1) detect whether a layout can be built, and change the colour of the cursor under the tile
14:41<andythenorth>2) show layout(s) as a tile grid
14:41<andythenorth>2 is rather hard imho
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14:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can either have random layout choosing or an exact representation of where it's going to be placed. not both
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>i think the subset of people who want to place industries manually, but want to be surprised by the layout it's going to choos is fairly small
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14:50<andythenorth>you'd have to survey for that :P
14:50<andythenorth>I can only offer my opinion, which is that choosing the layout is very boring
14:50<andythenorth>forum poll :P
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15:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see how it's different from choosing which direction of tracks your platforms should have
15:00<andythenorth>arguably you're right
15:01<andythenorth>but I think it's more work
15:01<andythenorth>currently I only have to click approximately where I want the industry
15:01<andythenorth>in the common cases
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>there's no reson to forbid that
15:01<andythenorth>choosing a specific layout means I have to understand precisely the conditions that will allow that layout to bbuild
15:02<andythenorth>which are very hard to understand, unless you are the newgrf author
15:03<andythenorth>so the UI would be 'random layout' | layouts 1-n
15:08<Wolf01> <andythenorth> 1) detect whether a layout can be built, and change the colour of the cursor under the tile <- we could do this and see if will get to trunk
15:09<+glx>show layout and required land shape ;)
15:09<+glx>for crazy stuff like tourist buildings
15:10<Wolf01>I wouldn't change the way the game works now, just show if you could place it or not before clicking, maybe with a max(x,y) tile area
15:10<andythenorth>that's just harder
15:10<andythenorth>binary yes/no is first step
15:13<andythenorth>hmm Eddi might be right
15:13<andythenorth>showing layout on random choice is ~impossible
15:14<andythenorth>it's easy for an allowed layout
15:14<andythenorth>but if there are no allowed layouts, which one should then be shown?
15:16<Wolf01>andythenorth: Wetroads and gondolas for tourists plz, max speed 4km/h, 2 people capacity, 40 to 90€ ticket :P
15:17<Pikka>Wolf01, I've always thought navigations and narrowboats would be best represented as notroads, rather than ships ;)
15:17<Wolf01>We made NRT exactyle for that
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>have you asked V?
15:19<Wolf01>V is busy :P
15:19<LordAro>nah, .16 is stable now
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if no layout is available, just show a red highlight on the current tile
15:19<LordAro>clearly V has loads of time
15:20<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that doesn't solve the 'give me a guide to placement' that has been asked for
15:20<andythenorth>but I don't think that problem can be solved
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>not really
15:20<andythenorth>unless choosing an explicit layout...
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>if you allow choosing a layout, you can highlight the mismatched tiles
15:23<Wolf01>We should change a lot of interfaces to be like the newobjects one
15:24<Wolf01>Stations are almost like that, extend it to industries
15:24<andythenorth>industries would need to be more like airports
15:25<andythenorth>airports already handle scaling the sprites, and paging through layouts
15:25<andythenorth>(try OGFX+ Airports to see the multiple orientations)
15:25<andythenorth>I bet that manual industry layout selection is not very hard
15:26<andythenorth>it's just hard to make the UI not ugly
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>do airports actually handle scaling sprites, or is it a custom preview sprite that each airport must provide?
15:29<andythenorth>good Q
15:30<Wolf01>Fuck, a new crash on NRT reported
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15:31<andythenorth>I read the crashlog, but I didn't get any insight
15:33<Wolf01>Just some grfs loaded
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15:34<Wolf01>Uhm, did he even started a game or the game crashed as soos as he launched it?
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15:35<andythenorth>there's no save eh?
15:36<Wolf01>Tick 49367: game loaded <- I bet he loaded a trunk savegame on NRT
15:37<Wolf01>But the last 4 grrfs are NRT ones
15:38<Wolf01>Ok, opening a 18MB dump on VS shows exactly the same things of the log file
15:38<Wolf01>"The thread tried to divide an integer value by an integer divisor of zero."
15:38<+glx><EddizuHause> do airports actually handle scaling sprites, or is it a custom preview sprite that each airport must provide? <-- I think it's a preview
15:41<peter1138>has TrueBrain finished his magic yet?
15:41<andythenorth>ok so they're pre-scaled
15:41<andythenorth>I am *not* doing that in newgrf industries :
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16:19<Wolf01>Connection says to go to bed
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 30 00:00:08 2018