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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-03-31

---Logopened Sat Mar 31 00:00:09 2018
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03:42<andythenorth>so how do I check the md5 of an official binary? o_O
03:42<andythenorth>md5 openttd-1.8.0-RC1-macosx-universal/
03:42<andythenorth>doesn't match the published result
03:42<andythenorth>so I'm doing it wrong?
03:43<TrueBrain>euh, yes
03:43<TrueBrain>the md5 is about the file you download
03:43<TrueBrain>not how it is after you open it
03:43<TrueBrain>the seal is on the box, not on the content
03:43<andythenorth>ok so just the zip
03:43<TrueBrain>of course
03:44<TrueBrain>np :)
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03:56<TrueBrain>right ... I was trying to figure out how to make builds from GH in a sane way .. mmm
03:56<TrueBrain>owh, yes, how to get an HTTP request out of AWS :)
04:01<LordAro>no guides on the internet where someone has done it before?
04:05<TrueBrain>NOWHERE! Its horrible! :P
04:05<TrueBrain>its more that I wanted to avoid uploading my own requests library, as I cannot imagine they dont have it already
04:05<TrueBrain>they did .. hidden in their own core :D
04:06<TrueBrain>lot of these things with AWS is not a question of: can it be done, but: how the hell do I do this?
04:07<andythenorth>when AWS is hosted in space, all will be ok
04:08<TrueBrain>pretty sure it would only be complicated to do anything ON AWS :P
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04:11<TrueBrain>hmm .. I get a Tomcat error report when I try to make a call out of AWS .. lol
04:20<TrueBrain>okay, problem is in the authorization part .. hmmm
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04:25<Wolf01>I'm still blocked on my compile farm on azure, it bitches about the certificate of the app and any help around say different things
04:25<TrueBrain>ugh ... issue is that Bamboo asks for a Captcha ..............
04:29<andythenorth>captcha is the worst thing ever
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04:38<TrueBrain>hahahahahaa ... the password is still a byte-stream
04:38<TrueBrain>in Python3 this can be a bit hiding
04:39<TrueBrain>so my password is now b'...'
04:39<TrueBrain>that is 3 chars too many :D
04:39<TrueBrain>that was a very tricky debug session (involving tcpdump and base64 decoding ..)
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04:49-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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04:51<TrueBrain>yippie, I can trigger Bamboo from GitHub now :)
04:54<andythenorth>what % load should trigger showing cargo sprites in a vehicle?
04:55<andythenorth>for some reason I show them from 1% loaded
04:57<@Alberth>empty vs non-empty is a useful distinction, imho
04:57<@Alberth>many other sets incl default evenly distribute the phases, ie 50% for one cargo sprite
04:58<andythenorth>it's easy for some cargos
04:58<@Alberth>not sure how many cargo sprites default has, I think 2
04:59<andythenorth>indivisible cargos present a challenge
04:59<@Alberth>nuts has 7 sprites iirc :)
04:59<@Alberth>very busy V :D
05:00<andythenorth>maybe indivisble cargos are just bad :P
05:00<@Alberth>it's an approximation no matter what you do
05:01<@Alberth>for a game that uses 45 degrees for turns, it's fine :)
05:02<Pikka>andythenorth, on a related note; should a train with random-coloured wagons rerandomise every time it depots?
05:02<andythenorth>Pikka: I wouldn't but you should
05:02<andythenorth>can't all do the same thing eh?
05:02<andythenorth>is it box cars?
05:02<@Alberth>needs a proper paint supply
05:03<Pikka>Alberth, more like "it grabs random wagons from the depot" rather than "its wagons are repainted" :P
05:05<@Alberth>wagons should be empty then :p
05:05<Pikka> no boxcars yet
05:05<@Alberth>but not sure, some recolouring is nice, but in all directions, not so sure
05:06<@Alberth>Opengfx+ changes wagon design on purchase date
05:07<@Alberth>similarly, you could have a cyclic(?) colour update for a period of time
05:07<@Alberth>eg 5 years all wagons visiting a depot become blue
05:08<Pikka>yes, all these things and more
05:08<Pikka>everyone missed the livery updates in UKRS because they all play with breakdowns off and no depot visits :P
05:08<andythenorth>Pikka: windcutter :P
05:08<@Alberth>if you service trains, that may become boring quite quickly, as the change happens within a year
05:08<andythenorth>if it was me
05:08<andythenorth>I'd just randomise on purchase
05:09<andythenorth>but we are not all me :P
05:09<andythenorth>if we were, the grfs would get done faster
05:09<andythenorth>and I could have a day off
05:09<andythenorth>nice 16t minfits
05:09<@Alberth>slow decay of engine power, pikka? :p
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05:10<Pikka>definitely, with associated increase in smoke particles :)
05:10<@Alberth>or refuse to drive without servicing
05:10<andythenorth>if I add chains to the coils for 'loaded' they look different to 'loading'
05:10<andythenorth>CC or 2CC or grey for chains?
05:10<Pikka>grey I'd say
05:11<andythenorth>hmm grey chain on grey steel coil
05:11<@Alberth>smoke points to breakdown, so you'll get bugreports that "engine breaks down with breakdown off"
05:11<@Alberth>decay of engine power just makes it slow :p
05:12<andythenorth>original chains were black it seems
05:13<andythenorth>let's try that
05:13<Pikka> Alberth
05:15<andythenorth>I've done one of those 'press one button to update everything' tricks
05:15<Pikka>did it break>
05:15<andythenorth>it crashed openttd maybe
05:15<@Alberth>looks good pikka :)
05:16<andythenorth>all cargo sprites in all grfs are shared from one place :P
05:17<andythenorth>Pikka: I hope you'll be using the (recent-ish) effects cb to simulate that 37
05:17<andythenorth>not a waste of your time at all :P
05:17<Pikka>unfortunately I can't... no room for the 37 in the set :P
05:19<andythenorth>sad times
05:19<andythenorth>is there a diesel?
05:19<Pikka>10 locos is harder than it sounds
05:19<Pikka>there are three diesels and a DMU
05:20<Pikka>well, we need openttd to simulate wheelslip. Then I can add the thrashing :P
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05:24<andythenorth>10 locos is very hard
05:25<andythenorth>we tried 20 in Horse, and it wasn't enough for me
05:25<andythenorth>no electrics?
05:25<Pikka>three steam, three diesels, two electrics, a DMU and an EMU
05:26<andythenorth>any zellepins?
05:27<Pikka>only during the eclipse of the sun
05:31<andythenorth>Wolf01: satisfied customer :P
05:32<andythenorth>when does the NRT fork become the default choice for OpenTTD players? o_O
05:32<Wolf01>BTW, Lesarthois saves load fine on my build
05:33<Pikka>NRT goes into trunk after 1.8, right? :D
05:34<Wolf01>MAybe, or maybe we'll have multiple official builds
05:34<Pikka>"hosebag" is a funny word
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05:59<TrueBrain>Bamboo fails with a docker action with a NullPointer exception
05:59<TrueBrain>that doesnt sound good
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06:04<TrueBrain>finally, I can run Dockers on a random PR :D
06:04<TrueBrain>w00p .. almost there!
06:07<TrueBrain>now lets make a docker hub account, and publish some images with which people can build OpenTTD safely :)
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>so when people now ask in the forum "can you give us a compiled windows version of this patch" we can now say "here install this docker"?
06:09<andythenorth>then I can add my crypto miner
06:09<andythenorth>it will be hidden in the gold mine industry code
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that sounds like a thing that should be done in NewGRF :p
06:10<TrueBrain>the Windows version is hilarious, I am sure most people wont be able to build that via the Docker
06:10<TrueBrain>you need Windows 10 PRO
06:10<TrueBrain>and shit like that :P
06:14<TrueBrain>lol @ docker hub .. I want to add an organization OpenTTD .. it just red borders the name
06:14<TrueBrain>it is .. taken? I cant use upper case? WHY ARE YOU RED
06:14<TrueBrain>fucking stupid failed feedback systems
06:14<@Alberth>you wouldn't want amateurs to build binaries of random transport games, now would you? :p
06:17<TrueBrain>how Docker did the Windows stuff is seriously annoying .. you need 10 Pro because it runs on Hyper-V
06:17<TrueBrain>guess Microsoft doesn't want the main public to use Docker or something
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06:22<TrueBrain>I love how I have to do network inspect on Docker Hub to see the errors :D
06:24<andythenorth>so should I fork Road Hog for NRT support then?
06:28<andythenorth>and can someone teach me hg?
06:31<TrueBrain>why ... would you ... want to ....
06:33<Pikka>hooray for hogs
06:33<andythenorth>hg is like hog
06:33<andythenorth>with an o missing
06:34<TrueBrain>this docker hub ... it is so very very unclear
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06:37<TrueBrain>full of javascript and network errors that are unhandled
06:39<andythenorth>what size T-shirt are you TB? :P
06:39<andythenorth>we spend some donation money on one :P
06:40<TrueBrain>lolz :D
06:49<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> full of javascript and network errors that are unhandled <-- surely the documented best practice for errors is "on error resume next"
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07:46<Pikka>can we get rid of livestock yet?
07:47<Pikka>it is a silly cargo
08:13<TrueBrain>yippie, Docker Hub can now build my images (instead that I have to or something :P)
08:14<andythenorth>Pikka: go vegetarian :P
08:24<TrueBrain>w00p, my PR is being compiled :D
08:24<TrueBrain>not in a CI-like matter, as it is making a deb file out of it ..
08:24<TrueBrain>but it is getting there :D
08:40<andythenorth>Pikka: in / \ views for trains
08:40<andythenorth>where do I put the wheels? :P
08:40<Pikka>underneath, usually
08:41<andythenorth>UKRS2 seems to have CC axleboxes? o_O
08:41<Pikka>on some things I think
08:43<andythenorth>maybe I should just draw one chassis
08:43<andythenorth>and comp the bodies on
08:45<andythenorth>this sort of business
08:45<TrueBrain>that is a HUGE link
08:45<andythenorth>some kind of ad-tracking scam
08:46<Pikka>yep... I mean, that's basically how I end up drawing everything. keep the underframe, redraw the body.
08:46<Pikka>can't block the cookie if it's in the url :P
08:46<andythenorth>should I bother with buffers in \ | / views? :P
08:47<andythenorth>basically I like drawing – view :P
08:47<andythenorth>the rest is marshmallow
08:48<TrueBrain>look at that :D
08:48<TrueBrain>an invalid page
08:48<Pikka>well the \ / views are the most important imo, they're the most seen in-game
08:48<Pikka>you broke it TrueBrain
08:48<TrueBrain>nah, I cannot type :)
08:48<andythenorth>nice 404
08:48<andythenorth>the best
08:48<TrueBrain>two differentproblems :P
08:48<andythenorth>you made a thing :o
08:49<TrueBrain>now I just need to create a CI docker, so tests are being run
08:49<TrueBrain>and a whitelist-system, so not everyone can just send to the right SNS a "compile this shit" command :D
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08:51<andythenorth>even more automation
08:51<andythenorth>or possibly repainting 150 wagon chassis later
08:52<andythenorth>@calc 150 * 8 * 3.5
08:52<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 4200
08:53<andythenorth>well we know how this will go :P
08:58<andythenorth>Pikka: tail light(s) on last vehicle? :P
09:01<Pikka>we can have multiple sprites in a vehicle now, right?
09:01<Pikka>so it doesn't mean double-sprites-for-everything like NARS had
09:01<andythenorth>it's just a layer
09:01<Pikka>then why not? ;)
09:02<Pikka>except tmwftlb and also if you want tail lights, build a brakevan? :)
09:04<andythenorth>brakevan needs lights :P
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09:14<Pikka>it does
09:15<Pikka>but bedtime or something
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10:02<andythenorth>comped wagon chassis sprites
10:02<andythenorth>1 hour work :P
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10:40<beno>I need some help setting up a dedicated server
10:43-!-beno is now known as Thedarkb
10:48<andythenorth>lo Alberth :)
10:48<TrueBrain>I need some help in general; not sure anyone can give it :P
10:50<Thedarkb>It's rare my nickname gets to the fourth option in Hexchat
10:50<Wolf01>I need help too, but I might need to see a psychiatrist... or an osteopath... or both
10:51<@Alberth>/me opens a can of fresh help for TB and Wolf
10:51<Wolf01>I just closed the jar of biscuits
10:52<@Alberth>it's empty I guess, at least mine always is :p
10:55<Wolf01>Not yet, I filled it some days ago
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10:56<Wolf01>And I have more on the closet
10:56<TrueBrain>why do you store things on the closet?
10:56<TrueBrain>seems like an odd place
10:57<@Alberth>backup storage :)
10:57<TrueBrain>for when the closet is full :D
10:59<Wolf01>Yeah, I shouldn't keep food together with brooms, shoes and document binders
10:59<TrueBrain>as long as you store them in the closet, and not on it, you will be fine :)
10:59<Wolf01>But I have a little pantry on my bedroom
11:00<LordAro>that is a bit unusual
11:00<TrueBrain>I was about to say .. on my bedroom is a roof :P
11:00<TrueBrain>why is finding a new computer monitor so difficult these days ... pfft
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11:01<LordAro>TrueBrain: ?
11:02<andythenorth>crashed ottd again
11:02<TrueBrain>stop doing that!
11:02<TrueBrain>and LordAro, that only gives more options ...
11:02<LordAro>ah, but they're more easily refined
11:03<andythenorth>buying monitors looks hard
11:03*andythenorth hopes to never do it
11:03<andythenorth>Alberth: Busy Bee, with a story book goal counter?
11:03<andythenorth>objective is to get to 100 goals?
11:04*andythenorth needs arbitrary targets :P
11:04<Wolf01>Yeah, I needed 2 24" monitors which fit in 40cm high space, the only ones I found without going to fall back to 21-22" were 2 23" TVs... and I was very lucky
11:04<@Alberth>and no timeout?
11:04<andythenorth>no timeout
11:05*andythenorth also wondering about 'take money away' goals :P
11:05<andythenorth>railroad tycoon 3 has company money, and personal tycoon money
11:05<andythenorth>and player can take money out of company to get rich :P
11:06<@Alberth>you get all 100 I guess?
11:07<@Alberth>which gives nice optimisations options for you to work out :)
11:09*andythenorth wonders about learning squirrel
11:09<andythenorth>I only have 3 unfinished newgrfs right now :P
11:09<andythenorth>I am wondering about arbitrary modular goals
11:10<V453000>hello gentlemen :)
11:10<V453000>how cats?
11:10<@Alberth>hi hi V
11:10<V453000>what new? :)
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11:14<andythenorth>lo V
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11:26<Wolf01>So have you already decided which april fool not to do tomorrow?
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11:54<andythenorth>a bug, behind 6 levels of abstraction :P
11:55<Thedarkb>How do I set an end date for games on my server?
11:55<Thedarkb>Also, how to I advertise it.
11:55<Thedarkb>I have the port open.
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12:00<@Alberth>if the server is not listed, you clearly don't have enough ports opened, or not at enough devices
12:00<@Alberth>assuming your isp doesn't block stuff
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12:17<Thedarkb>Should be alright
12:17<Thedarkb>It's a VPN with no firewall
12:17<Thedarkb>Except for ssh
12:25<Thedarkb>Nothing like waking up to your VPN under chinese control.
12:26<Thedarkb>Any idea why it's not coming up?
12:28<Thedarkb>Alberth, How do I make it pause when nobodies on and reset in 2100?
12:29<@Alberth>I have no idea at all, I wasn't even aware that was possible at all
12:31<Wolf01>The pause thing is easy, there's a setting for that: min_active_clients
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12:31<Wolf01>Restart_game_date should be what you need for the other question
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13:15<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I don't recognize you.
13:16<TrueBrain>@kban goddamned_mushy_sush its easter .. use another name
13:16<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: goddamned_mushy_sush is not in #openttd.
13:16<TrueBrain>@kban goddamned_mushy_sushi its easter .. use another name
13:16-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~goddamned@] by DorpsGek
13:16-!-goddamned_mushy_sushi was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [its easter .. use another name]
13:18<Thedarkb>Wait, waht?
13:18<Thedarkb>Why did he get banned?
13:18<TrueBrain>I think the kick message was self-explaining enough
13:19<Thedarkb>He didn't do anything.
13:19<TrueBrain>that is not the kick message .........
13:19<Thedarkb>its easter .. use another name
13:28<Thedarkb>TrueBrain, Did you even warn him properly?
13:29<Thedarkb>I don't think that that was fair.
13:30<Wolf01>Chats aren't a democracy
13:30<@Alberth>and obviously he wanted a reaction :p
13:30<TrueBrain>I think this was a very proper warning :)
13:30<Thedarkb>I don't think he wanted a reaction.
13:30<TrueBrain>he is free to change his identifier, and reconnect :)
13:31<@Alberth>Thedarkb: yeah sure, you pick that name fully by accident
13:31<Thedarkb>I'm sure he intentionally picked the name but I don't think he wanted to antagonize anyone.
13:33<Thedarkb>I wouldn't think twice about a name like that.
13:58<Thedarkb>How do I change the map size?
13:58<Thedarkb>It looks a bit cramped.
13:59<Thedarkb>On a dedicated server
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14:01<Thedarkb>I also want to raise the sea level slightly.
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14:13<andythenorth>such cat
14:17<supermop>if a variable needs an argument, does that go in the expression part of the switch?
14:23<Thedarkb>I want to make the map a bit mountainous.
14:23<andythenorth>yes, it's in the expression iirc
14:24<supermop>so like witch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, carrier_low_end, other_veh_curve_info, X ){
14:24<Thedarkb>How do I tweak the terrain generator to do that?
14:24<supermop>where x is the offset to the vehicle i want to get the curve info of
14:24<supermop>switch not witch
14:28<andythenorth>you have to wrap it in something
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14:39<andythenorth>often the case
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14:59<V453000>oh yeah April fools
14:59<V453000>Another NUTS birthdday
14:59<V453000>more importantly another NUTS birthday I have no update for :D
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15:07<TrueBrain>and who's fault is THAT? :P
15:18<supermop>is there a way to get cargo_count for the whole consist?
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16:12<andythenorth>supermop: maybe, but I can't think of a pleasant way to do it
16:12<andythenorth>I'll check nfo spec
16:13<andythenorth>what are you wanting it for? o_O
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17:48<supermop>andythenorth: cars on carrier
17:48<supermop>carrier is 9/8
17:48<andythenorth>pikka more sleep :P
17:48<supermop>so it is 3 x 3/8, drawn to look like 9/8
17:49<supermop>3 cars on bottom, three on top
17:50<supermop>want the cargo graphics to load in an order that makes sense, ie all the top ones, ramp raises, then all the bottom ones
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17:51<supermop>so each 3/8 segments needs to know to shown no lower level cars until whole consist is over 50% full
17:51<Pikka>andythenorth, no sleep, only nfo
17:52<andythenorth>probably correct
17:52<andythenorth>supermop: I suggest that's regrettable :P
17:52<supermop>if cargo_count was for consist, the above should do what i want
17:58<supermop>"Query variable of n-th vehicle in chain (61) This is a special variable to get the contents of another variable of a different vehicle in the vehicle chain."
17:58<supermop>maybe this is something
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18:05<supermop>hmm maybe not
18:06<andythenorth>you could add up the cargo in the consist
18:06<andythenorth>but the switches to handle variable lengths would be insane
18:06<andythenorth>you'd need a code generator
18:07<andythenorth>it would be a showboating trick
18:07<supermop>the length isn't variable
18:07<andythenorth>the length of the consist is
18:07<supermop>its would always be cab + 3 chunks of trailer
18:08<andythenorth>oh it's a truck, not a train?
18:09<andythenorth>yeah just offset to neighbouring vehicles then
18:09<andythenorth>it's still painful
18:09<andythenorth>but will work fine
18:10<supermop>one of those
18:11<supermop>i just want the switch to be based on the total load of the truck vs its capacity
18:13<andythenorth>query property of nth vehicle
18:14<andythenorth>I am looking for old Horse code that did it
18:14<andythenorth>but can't find it :P
18:14<andythenorth>crazy 3-part Horse had cargo on first unit, and sprites on second unit
18:14<andythenorth>so it had to check neighbouring unit for correct loading/loaded sprites
18:15<andythenorth>but I deleted all that
18:15<supermop>i'd need to add the value for parts 1 2 and 3
18:15<supermop>no cargo in part 0
18:16<supermop>i wonder tho, if i use PARENT instead of SELF?
18:17<supermop>i guess i can put all the capacity on part 1, and 2 and 3 will have 0 capacity
18:17<andythenorth>something like that
18:17*andythenorth bed
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18:23<Thedarkb>Is there any sign of OpenTTD being updated to use modern packages?
18:24<Thedarkb>At the moment OpenTTD is a security risk
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of package and what kind of risk?
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18:46<Thedarkb>Eddi|zuHause, Debian and Ubuntu
18:46<Thedarkb>They both use outdated packages.
18:47<Thedarkb>libicu52 has some security issue
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>Thedarkb: we are not responsible for what the distributions do. you should talk to them
18:48<Thedarkb>I'll build it myself in future.
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19:22<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: it's not a distro thing, ottd doesn't work with newer versions of icu
19:22<LordAro>they removed the text layout engine
19:25<Thedarkb>And the version of icu it's on was removed from the repo with a big red SECURITY tag.
19:27<LordAro>ah, you mean the version of icu that's required with the prebuilt binaries from
19:28<LordAro>that's a known issue with the age of the compile farm, which should hopefully be fixed in the next few weeksish
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20:24<supermop>maybe im getting warmer:
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22:11<Pikka>if it's one vehicle carrying one cargo, I'd just put all the cargo in the head unit like you said, and read that for the cargo sprites
22:13<Pikka>mind you I think articulated road vehicles are a BAD FEATURE ;)
22:23<Pikka>except trams
22:38<supermop>Pikka: still need to figure out how i specify the other_veh offset
22:38<supermop>but yes, this whole grf is an exploration of bad features
22:38<Pikka>if you put the cargo in the head, can't you just read the parent object?
22:39<supermop>for the messed up curve info
22:40<Pikka>what fun :D
22:42<supermop>Its ANDY's fault -he put vehicles in steel town . so l feel compelled to make a truck to deliver them
22:45<Eddi|zuHause>"Path of Exile: Royale"... i think it started...
22:48<supermop>so what is in progress in Pikka land?
22:49<Pikka>brakevans at the moment... we all love brakevans
22:49<supermop>yes, the original bad feature
22:53<Eddi|zuHause>i hear people get religious about whether brake vans go on the beginning or end of the train
22:54<Pikka>why not both (tm)?
22:56<supermop>one after each wagon
23:16<Flygon>Hold up.
23:16<Flygon>I got this.
23:16*Flygon places brake van... in the middle of the train
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 01 00:00:11 2018