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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-02

---Logopened Mon Apr 02 00:00:12 2018
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02:35<andythenorth>huzzah
02:35<andythenorth>Pikka: solved it all? o_O
02:36<Pikka>mostly
02:38<Pikka>road hogs are really expensive. :P the poor ai struggles.
02:52<andythenorth>really?
02:52<andythenorth>I thought I made it too cheap
02:53<andythenorth>I have costs on 'medium' eh
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03:07<Wolf01>Moin
03:24<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
03:26<andythenorth>Pikka: expensive to run, or expensive to buy?
03:31<Pikka>to buy, mostly. but it's being conservative about money reserves, I can loosen it up a bit
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03:43<andythenorth>yeah ok
03:43<andythenorth>compared to Horse, Hog is expensive to buy
03:44<andythenorth>train will repay within 1-2 years on a good route
03:44<andythenorth>trucks are 5-10 years
03:55<andythenorth>livery remap for alcohol tankers? o_O http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OHEMfVLFX3o/TpyRa9anzqI/AAAAAAAAExo/x9RvTH9OcNk/s1600/Heineken+truck.jpg
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04:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: only if you get payment from the respective brand
05:27<andythenorth>8 year old wants ship tunnels
05:28<andythenorth>he has made an extensive pitch
05:29<Pikka>aircraft tunnels, doesn't it
05:31<andythenorth>through mountains though
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06:01<andythenorth>quak
06:01<andythenorth>etc
06:02<frosch123>hoin
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06:18<TrueBrain>hmm ... how do I get a graphics set via the command line for regression check ...
06:21<TrueBrain>the GUI can, but you can't via command line?
06:21<TrueBrain>what is this bullshit? :P
06:21<LordAro> wget?
06:21<TrueBrain>that means that I also have to figure out both the URL and the place to wget it to
06:21<TrueBrain>not ideal for a Docker regression-checker :)
06:22<LordAro>mm, maybe
06:22<TrueBrain>and installing the openttd-opengfx via Debian is not sufficient ... lol
06:23<TrueBrain>where does it expect this to be ..
06:24<TrueBrain>baseset is now in /usr/share/games/openttd
06:24<TrueBrain>but .. hmmmmmm
06:24<TrueBrain>haha, local
06:24<TrueBrain>ugh
06:27<TrueBrain>I always found it weird that the game depends on gfx files in order to run
06:27<TrueBrain>I know why etc etc
06:27<TrueBrain>still weird :P
06:29<frosch123>the win installer has some openttd.org address for download
06:29<frosch123>https://www.openttd.org/en/download-opengfx
06:30<frosch123>but i remember that something also used to wget nogfx
06:31<frosch123>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/798/nogfx-nogfx.tar
06:31<frosch123>^^ only 270kB
06:31<TrueBrain>why is that tar not something official? :)
06:31<TrueBrain>but I was also puzzled where I should put that file
06:31<TrueBrain>nothing really helped me in any indication wher eI could put it ..
06:32<TrueBrain>been a while since I knew :P
06:32<frosch123>readme 4.2 :p
06:32<TrueBrain>yes .. didnt help
06:32<TrueBrain>as it says: /usr/share
06:32<TrueBrain>but by default, prefix is /usr/local
06:32<TrueBrain>so .. yeah ....
06:32<frosch123>blame lordaro
06:33<TrueBrain>I would think that for dedicated servers, you could also have a command-line option that auto-downloads a gfx
06:33<TrueBrain>just like the GUI
06:33<frosch123>i would rather get rid of the stupid gfx requirement :)
06:33<TrueBrain>works for me as well :)
06:34<TrueBrain>either way, I now just installed openttd-opengfx from debian-stretch
06:34<TrueBrain>and set the prefix-dir to /usr
06:34<TrueBrain>now regression works
06:36<TrueBrain>easiest way to get rid of it might be to include that above tar in the repo :P
06:37<TrueBrain>btw, frosch123, something for another day, but after OpenTTD moves to github, we also have to move stuff like grfcodec, etc etc (the extra folder)
06:37<TrueBrain>that is not in scope for me atm
06:37<TrueBrain>(not sure if I already said that :P)
06:39<TrueBrain>okay, all linux dockers seem to work; later today I hope to tackle OSX dockers ..
06:43<LordAro>frosch123: rude
06:45<andythenorth>nice TrueBrain :)
06:45<TrueBrain>I also replaced zesty with something with an a
06:45<TrueBrain>(17.04 -> 17.10)
06:46<LordAro>if you wait a few days, you'll be able to use 18.04 LTS
06:46<TrueBrain>yeah ... we just add that when it gets there :)
06:46<TrueBrain>its as easy as adding an entry to Makefile :)
06:47<TrueBrain>LINUX_RELEASE_TARGETS += ubuntu-<whatever>-amd64 ubuntu-<whatever>-i386
06:47<TrueBrain>:P
06:47<LordAro>:)
06:47<TrueBrain>owh, and for autobuilds, you need to add the tag in the docker hub account ..
06:48<TrueBrain>still not sure if I want to use their autobuild .. it is nice, but another place to maintain stuff ..
06:48<andythenorth>how can I draw a neutral dock?
06:48<andythenorth>the CHIPS one is asphalt / concrete
06:48<andythenorth>and has to be used with concrete station tiles
06:48<frosch123>what makes a dock neutral?
06:48<TrueBrain>Austria owns it
06:49<frosch123>ask wolf to return venecia then
06:49<andythenorth>frosch123: looks good with all CHIPS station tiles
06:49<andythenorth>and all FIRS harbour industries
06:50<Wolf01>What?
06:50<frosch123>Wolf01: austria needs a port
06:50<Wolf01>Take Trieste
06:51<LordAro>TrueBrain: Switzerland, surely?
06:51<LordAro>TrueBrain: what does autobuild entail?
06:52<TrueBrain>LordAro: nah, that would be to political correct
06:52<TrueBrain>hub.docker can autobuild a GitHub repo into Docker images
06:52<TrueBrain>so you point it to a repo with a Dockerfile
06:53<TrueBrain>when-ever you push there
06:53<TrueBrain>he builds a new image
06:53<TrueBrain>but I guess I can just make our Bamboo do the same .. gives a bit more flexibility I guess
06:53<andythenorth>maybe time for newgrf docks?
06:53<TrueBrain>their autobuild also cannot do Windows ..
06:54<TrueBrain>*shrug* .. not sure .. lets first get the GH migration done :)
06:59<TrueBrain>Debian is cool .. they are creating 'slim' images for Docker .. removing shit you most likely won't be needing
06:59<TrueBrain>I now have images < 200 MiB that can build OpenTTD
06:59<TrueBrain>including all main dependencies
06:59<TrueBrain>(like ICU)
06:59<andythenorth>:)
07:00<TrueBrain>well, more like 300 MiB
07:00<TrueBrain>the ubuntu, in contrast, are 700 MiB
07:03<TrueBrain>that stupid Makefile requirements that it needs tabs ... it keeps screwing me over
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07:15<LordAro>TrueBrain: tabs 4 lyfe
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07:43<andythenorth>Pikka: is it wagon speed limits? or not?
07:43<Pikka>I think so
07:44<Pikka>it's "realism", and it makes the fastest express engines not the ideal choice for literally everything
07:44<andythenorth>same here
07:46<Pikka>when I get around to doing industries again, I think I'll try an experimental cargo payment setting which ignores time in transit, see if that improves the game
07:46<andythenorth>such industry
07:46<andythenorth>2x zoom?
07:47<Pikka>TTD's time/distance payment model is dumb. faster vehicles already have an advantage in that they can make more trips, they don't need to be paid more too.
07:47<Pikka>very zoom
07:47<andythenorth>lawks
07:49*andythenorth double tracks some canals
07:53<andythenorth>should I random cabeese?
07:55<andythenorth>they are all this sort of thing currently http://www.locomotionmodels.com/content/bachmann-38-551-midland-brake-van-br-grey-without-duckets~1350.jpg
07:55<frosch123>add cabbage as cargo
07:55<andythenorth>well
07:55<andythenorth>I could
07:56<andythenorth>'Veg' is missing mostly from FIRS
07:56<andythenorth>also this kind of cabeese https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/IMG_6789.jpg?preset=large
07:57<andythenorth>not sure how useful random is :P
07:58<andythenorth>ha ha also I deleted all the code for random graphical variants :D
08:00<Pikka>brakevans kind of feel like the one thing that should be fairly consistent
08:00<Pikka>unless you want to do different graphics per company, which is real BAD FEATURES
08:01<andythenorth>I have 2 to choose from anyway
08:01<andythenorth>maybe random sprites are blah
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08:36<Thedarkb-X40>I was going to build an OpenTTD package for TinyCore Linux but I couldn't get it to cooperate with Xvesa
08:37<Thedarkb-X40>My TinyCore machine has no Linux graphics drivers so sacrifices must be made.
08:55<Pikka>hmmmm
08:56<Pikka>andythenorth, your courier trucks are confusing my AI
08:56<andythenorth>oops
08:56<andythenorth>what haps?
08:56<Pikka>different capacities for different cargos :)
08:57<andythenorth>is proper no? :P
08:57<andythenorth>can I provide any hint? o_O
09:00<Pikka>hmm
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09:02<Pikka>well, I could give it a hint... maybe make it prefer vehicles which carry goods by default
09:02<Pikka>when it's looking for a big goods truck
09:06<andythenorth>if default cargo is mail? o_O
09:06<andythenorth>ignore?
09:06<Pikka>something like that
09:10<Pikka>there we go, Rattlebrooks away
09:16<Wolf01>andythenorth: do you how to make a hinge which allow an active axle to pass with an angle >90°?
09:20<andythenorth>Wolf01: bevel gears
09:20<Wolf01>Max 90-100°
09:22<andythenorth>I need non-electric trams in my game
09:22<andythenorth>:(
09:23<Wolf01>Draw tem without pantograph
09:23<Wolf01>*them
09:24<andythenorth>I need to hide the catenary
09:24<Wolf01>Use NRT
09:24<andythenorth>maybe I could patch to not show catenary? o_O
09:25<Wolf01>Mmmh, double elbow... I will kill myself trying to get it together, but it might work
09:27<andythenorth>still making robot arms?
09:28<Wolf01>Yes
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09:58<Wolf01>Double elbow won't work
10:08*andythenorth lunch
10:15<andythenorth>cargo loading sprites :(
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13:58<Thedarkb>I'm not as good on FIRS as I'd like to be.
14:06<andythenorth>? o_O
14:08<LordAro>people actually play with firs?
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14:13<andythenorth>at least one
14:14<Thedarkb>What's wrong with FIRS
14:14<Thedarkb>I used to love Heart of Darkness.
14:19<Thedarkb>LordAro, What industry replacement do you recommend?
14:36<LordAro>firs, probably
14:36<LordAro>i haven't played in ages
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15:39<Wolf01>So, andythenorth: I think I've finished the robotic arm. Even without motors everywhere (there's only one motor at the base) and trying to keep it light as possible it weights a lot and doesn't work really well :(
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15:42<andythenorth>:P
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16:14<supermop_work>yo
16:15<andythenorth>lo mop
16:19<Thedarkb>Why do previously profitable routes become unprofitable?
16:20<andythenorth>inflation?
16:20<andythenorth>if inflation is on, turn it off
16:20<andythenorth>it's broken
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16:51<Pikka>Chris Sawyer, master of BAD FEATURES
16:54<LANJesus>lol.
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17:19<Wolf01>'nihgt
17:19<Wolf01>'night also
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17:54<Thedarkb-X40>Yeah I'll turn off inflation
17:56<supermop_work_>still think it would be worth 'fixing' inflation somehow, or making it controllable by GS or new grf
17:57<supermop_work_>even if revenue and costs scale 1:1, it would at least reduce the real value of giant cash piles
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18:17<Thedarkb-X40>Will my server re-read the openttd.cfg when it restarts in 2100?
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>what i always found odd was that the bank loan interest is so low
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>in games like railroad tycoon you can easily go bankrupt from maxing out your loan
18:45<Thedarkb-X40>What's inflation called in the .cfg
18:45<Thedarkb-X40>nvm
18:45<Thedarkb-X40>found it
18:46<Thedarkb-X40>Had a typo in my search
18:49<Thedarkb-X40>Oh yeah, how do I turn up the connection timeout time?
18:49<Thedarkb-X40>I have a slow PC
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>the timeout is a server setting
19:00<Thedarkb>I know, I own the server.
19:00<Thedarkb-X40>Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.40GHz (1.30GHz) • Memory: Physical: 1.2 GiB Total (727.5 MiB Free) Swap: 945.3 MiB Total (888.2 MiB Free) • Storage: 12.3 GB / 31.8 GB (19.5 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device @ Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Contr
19:00<Thedarkb-X40>oller • Uptime: 2d 23h 58m 9s
19:00<Thedarkb-X40>She's not exactly a spring chicken.
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19:10<Thedarkb-X40>Would it be possible to put interest and inflation under the control of a NewGRF?
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>no
19:15<Supercheese>Too bad, that's an... interesting idea.
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19:36<rocky1138>congrats on the 1.8.0 release
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19:40<Thedarkb-X40>Shit, it released?
19:42<Pikka>mmmm, "expression expected" at EOF
19:43<Pikka>silly curly brackets
19:43<Pikka>the release is always april 1, Thedarkb-X40 :)
19:44<Supercheese>An ancient tradition
19:44<Pikka>EOF errors or OTTD releases, Supercheese? :P
19:44<Supercheese>Yes.
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20:06<HeyCitizen>how do i enable 'refit at station' for trains ?
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>for americans, everything that happened more than twice is an ancient tradition
20:14<Supercheese>There are also many instances of, "The First Annual Event/Show/Festival"
20:14<Supercheese>which always strikes me as odd
20:14<Supercheese>how can it be annual... if this is only the first time?
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20:26<Cubey>Does annual have to mean every year? Can't it also just mean once per year?
20:27<Cubey>So like if I put on the "first annual Cubey awards" it could just mean that I am giving out an award for something people did within the last year
20:43<Pikka>HeyCitizen, by using a newgrf with that capability
20:46<nauticalnexus>Which .deb file would I download if I'm on Testing
20:47<HeyCitizen>Pikka: do you mean there is a newgrf specifically for that purpose, or is it the trainset grf that needs to support it?
20:47<Pikka>I mean the trainset needs to support it
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>nauticalnexus: if there is no .deb for exactly your distribution, download the generic one
21:28<Thedarkb-X40>How big should my server's map be?
21:28<ST2>4Kx4K
21:28<Thedarkb-X40>We've been playing on 512x512
21:28<Thedarkb-X40>It's a little cramped at times.
21:29<ST2>cramped on a 512x512 map?
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21:30<ST2>I have a server hosting 15 OpenTTD servers, a Factorio server, website and a couple more private things
21:30<ST2>and it's at ~30% usage
21:32<ST2>so Thedarkb-X40, I think you must think well on your setup, before making it live - personal advice :)
21:32<Thedarkb-X40>Also, I'm going to try YETI in the morning.
21:32<ST2>on that machine?!, forget
21:32<Thedarkb-X40>Really?
21:33<Thedarkb-X40>FIRS is fine.
21:33<HeyCitizen>i play 4096x4096 cuz to hell with slow computers
21:33<nauticalnexus>Eddi|zuHause: nvm I just build it myself lol
21:34<Thedarkb-X40>Total download size 182mib
21:34<Thedarkb-X40>Yeah no
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>Thedarkb-X40: if your upload speed is low, you should consider smaller maps
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>Thedarkb-X40: and fewer trees
21:35<Thedarkb-X40>My server's speeds are fine
21:35<Thedarkb-X40>I have shit internet.
21:35<Thedarkb-X40>I'm using a VPN
21:35<Eddi|zuHause>game size will increase on busier maps
21:35<ST2>[02:34:53] <Eddi|zuHause> Thedarkb-X40: and fewer trees <<-- or no trees at all, it helps ^^
21:35<Eddi|zuHause>with more vehicles and cargo
21:36<Thedarkb-X40>At the moment it hovers around 800k
21:38<ST2>Eddi|zuHause: I know you're ignoring me, but it's fine; had some chats with Thedarkb-X40 in another channel, and he dnt even know server specs
21:38<ST2>hard to measure vehicle limit on that
21:38<Thedarkb-X40>ST2, Stop being a cunt.
21:38<Thedarkb-X40>I told you my specs
21:38<ST2>or map size, if that matters
21:38<Thedarkb-X40>It's a VPN with 1 gigabyte of RAM
21:39<Thedarkb-X40>and I'm not interested in a vehicle limit.
21:39<ST2>[02:38:27] <Thedarkb-X40> ST2, Stop being a cunt. - [02:38:44] <Thedarkb-X40> It's a VPN with 1 gigabyte of RAM - tell me where you told that
21:39<Thedarkb-X40>in #/r/openttd
21:40<Thedarkb-X40>Well
21:40<ST2>I was expecting the line you said that
21:40<Thedarkb-X40>I said it was the cheapest DigitalOcean droplet.
21:40<Thedarkb-X40>Which implies a gig of RAM
21:41<ST2>well, you were assuming I knew that
21:41<ST2>and even are now
21:42<Thedarkb-X40>Another one for the ignore list.
21:42<Thedarkb-X40>Are you that condescending irl?
21:43<ST2>well, in real life I expect that people use brains a bit better
21:43<ST2>but here, yes, I'm a bit condescending
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22:46<supermop>eddi i think i need to give up on this idea
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22:47<supermop>ive kept the trailer in 3 parts, so i can have an independent stack of 4 sprites on each part
22:47<supermop>so far so good.
22:48<supermop>then i use a shifted sprite template based on the curv info switches to match the direction of each part to the lead part
22:48<supermop>also works
22:48<supermop>then i was going to mess with the offsets in those templates to realign the shifted sprites
22:50<supermop>but the x and y differences between each sprite in a curve varies too much, so it seems ill actually need like 144 templates at least
22:50<supermop>this is starting to become not worth it even for me
23:17<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you cannot adjust x/y offsets, so trying to have the curved vehicle in several parts is futile
23:20<Eddi|zuHause>the separation into parts only really works when the vehicle is straight
23:21<Eddi|zuHause>if all you really want is have more colour variety, you'd probably be better off making custom recolour maps
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23:21<Eddi|zuHause>that switch out more colours at the same time
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23:57<Pikka>why
23:57<Pikka>does the API say the only enumerator for rail type is RAILTYPE_INVALID?
23:57<Pikka>oh
23:58<Pikka>because newgrfs can bugger around with the railtypes
23:58<Pikka>right
23:59*Pikka chooses to believe that standard rail is railtype 0, instead of coding a proper check.
---Logclosed Tue Apr 03 00:00:13 2018