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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-04

---Logopened Wed Apr 04 00:00:15 2018
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02:16<andythenorth>is it?
02:19<andythenorth>Pikka: such sprites? o_O
02:19<andythenorth>yesterday I stopped drawing 8 angles for symmetrical vehicles :P
02:20<andythenorth>negative amount of sprites created
02:20<andythenorth>I see BROS has found a new way to stop progress
02:21<andythenorth>it's remarkable, they walk into every bear trap
02:21<Pikka>he pm'd me, I gave him all the UKRS2 sprites, while also telling him that drawing sprites even smaller than TTD was a silly idea
02:21<andythenorth>it was
02:21<andythenorth>I have to rescale them all for Horse :P
02:24<andythenorth>what cargo sprites for ENSP / FMSP? o_O
02:25<andythenorth>currently I have two colours of tarp
02:34<Pikka>tarps are good
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02:45<supermop>ok im off to bed for 5 hours
02:49<Pikka>goodnight for 5 hours
02:51*andythenorth will have drawn *everything* within next 5 hours
02:51<andythenorth>only 75 things to draw
03:10<andythenorth>I've drawn one
03:11<andythenorth>oops, it was 175, not 75
03:11<andythenorth>just 174 to go then
03:11<andythenorth>@calc 174 * 0.5
03:11<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 87
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03:11<andythenorth>'bout 4 days then
03:11<andythenorth>continuous drawing
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03:16<Pikka>good luck
03:17<Pikka>I've gotten nearly-two sprites done today... fiddling with AI was a bit of a distraction
03:19<andythenorth>nearly-two is good
03:19<andythenorth>I've got nearly-three entire grfs
03:20<andythenorth>I just work on them all at once, finishing none of them
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03:30<andythenorth>what does your AI do with Sam?
03:40<Pikka>it used to do just buses and planes, now it does mail and goods trucks too. Soon it will do short-haul railways to factories.
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03:51<andythenorth>Captain Salty
03:51<andythenorth>Ship AI
03:51*andythenorth has not AI-ed
04:06<Pikka>it's great fun
04:07<Pikka>it's like playing OTTD from six months in the past with your eyes shut
04:07<Pikka>but then once it's running you get to sit and watch it run around
04:09<Pikka>a ship AI might work well with FIRS, since you have so many lakeside and on-water industries
04:10<andythenorth>also cats
04:10<andythenorth>cats / boats /s
04:11<Pikka>sure was a lot of shipbuilding going on in 1870
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04:39<Pikka> spriteses... I was supposed to have a couple of locos done by now.
04:40<Pikka>but it's dinnertime so bbs
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05:08<andythenorth>such chopper
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05:37<andythenorth>that's a lot of eddi's
05:38<andythenorth>1 is enough
05:38<andythenorth>more or fewer are not needed
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05:47<andythenorth>Pikka: restaurant cars? o_O
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06:38<peter1138>Me o'clock BST.
06:41<andythenorth>pikka doesn't have clock changes
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06:55<Pikka>restaurant cars?
06:55<Pikka>I don't know, as a graphical variant, why not?
06:55<Pikka>as long as it's not confusing to players or you can't be bothered drawing it
06:56<andythenorth>it's not a thing to build in buy menu though eh? o_O
06:58<Pikka>I wouldn't have thought so
06:59<andythenorth>one per train?
06:59*andythenorth thinks so
06:59<andythenorth>not sure how to do that but eh
07:00<Pikka>I'd tend towards standard consists
07:00<andythenorth>? o_O
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07:00<Pikka>eg, 3rd car of a set of five or more
07:00<andythenorth>yes ok
07:02<Pikka>NARS, I think, tried to test the distance to next order to pick whether or not it should have sleepers
07:02<Pikka>not sure that ever worked properly
07:02<andythenorth>lol :)
07:02<andythenorth>Horse currently only has one or two bad features
07:02<andythenorth>I need a few more
07:03<andythenorth>next q
07:03<andythenorth>freight wagons randomise 1CC / 2CC, it looks good
07:03<andythenorth>should pax carriages do same?
07:04<andythenorth>I am thinking 'no', dog's dinner
07:04<Pikka>yeah, probably not
07:05<Pikka>of course you could always code both and make it a parameter ;)
07:05<andythenorth>just set pax 2cc same as 1cc
07:05<andythenorth>in the silly livery menu
07:05<andythenorth>but eh no, it's fugly
07:06<andythenorth>eh we didn't do these ever
07:10<andythenorth>one for supermop
07:10<andythenorth>Pikka: drawn any mail cars yet?
07:11<andythenorth>haz picture?
07:12<Pikka>nothing super prototypical, one that's effectively a full-length mk1 brake and one that's a 7/8 GUV
07:13<andythenorth>dunno what livery to paint
07:14<andythenorth>match pax carriages in pax train?
07:14<andythenorth>otherwise solid 1CC?
07:14<Pikka> either
07:15<andythenorth>yeah same here
07:15<andythenorth>not sure I like it :P
07:15<Pikka>matching looks better for MUs, full CC looks better when you randomly use it for goods trains
07:16<andythenorth>I can check cargo in consist
07:16<Pikka>repainting for cargo type is badfeatures... station refits ;)
07:16<andythenorth>watch my tankers change colour if you do that
07:16<andythenorth>is fine
07:17<Pikka>about the only thing I'd do it for is colouring locos for freight trains, because passenger cars tend not to be refittable
07:18<andythenorth>hmm loco liveries eh? o_O
07:18<andythenorth>hadn't thought of that
07:18<Pikka>freight steam in black, mostly
07:19<andythenorth>but I just paint the freight engines black in the spritesheet :P
07:19<andythenorth>hmm I could do full railfreight sector madness
07:20<andythenorth>maybe it would make BORTS unnecessary
07:20<Pikka>this sounds worryingly like UKRS2... I sent captain borts the nfo along with the sprites and had a read of it first, it's ridiculous
07:21<Pikka>all the real-world repaints
07:21<andythenorth>we have a train set in the loft
07:21<andythenorth>so eh, no need to put that in the game
07:22<Pikka>UK on the other loop?
07:22<andythenorth>one NARS and one UKRS
07:22<andythenorth>also Thomas on both
07:22<andythenorth>didn't answer my mail car question though eh :P
07:23*andythenorth must chores
07:23<Pikka>I thought the answer was both?
07:28<__ln__>such british. let me guess there is no radiator under the window? (if there is a window)
07:28<andythenorth>it's a loft
07:28<andythenorth>it has velux
07:29<__ln__>i see
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08:10<andythenorth>show cargo loading in box cars? Or just open doors?
08:10<andythenorth>^ old Horse
08:10<andythenorth>the cargo is just crates, not accurate in any way to actual cargo in vehicle
08:17<andythenorth>such a bikeshed
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09:10<supermop_work>so the plan to sleep 5 hours failed
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09:21<andythenorth>lo Alberth
09:21<@Alberth>hi hi
09:32*andythenorth should lunch, and shop
09:32<andythenorth>and stuff
09:37*Pikka should bedward
09:37<Pikka>I got the diagonals done on the 20, just the | views to do in the morning, and they're simples
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10:44<supermop_work>so instead of 5 i got 2.5 hours
10:44<andythenorth>much coffee
10:45<supermop_work>aeropress at 8 and cortado just now
10:47<supermop_work>large logo 66 is 100 emoji
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10:53<andythenorth>supermop_work: you should do a BR large logo set :P
10:53<andythenorth>UK sets are in vogue today
10:53<andythenorth>Horse, Pikka's new thing
10:53<andythenorth>and now...BROS version 9000 apparently
10:54<supermop_work>it'll be all 47s
10:54<andythenorth>I should not have deleted the random livery options from Horse :P
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12:44<andythenorth>supermop_work: what is wrong with this? o_O
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13:07<supermop_work>andythenorth: are people driving trains in gta?
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13:09<Wolf01>We really removed train signals? \o/
13:10<Wolf01>(Yes, I've read only now the announce for 1.8.0)
13:11<andythenorth>supermop_work: also the logo? o_O
13:12<andythenorth>supermop_work: also, had enough coffee yet?
13:12<andythenorth>I have questions
13:13<andythenorth>freight box cars in passenger trains, should they get the pax carriage livery?
13:13<supermop_work>coworkers didnt stop at cafe on way back from lunch
13:13<supermop_work>guess i could drink office coffee
13:13<andythenorth>I do
13:13<supermop_work>i assume as its your office, it is coffee that you like
13:14<andythenorth>oddly not
13:14<andythenorth>I spend more time than I want on getting the right coffee
13:14<andythenorth>recently we discovered it was accidentally all decaf
13:14<andythenorth>which is....only just a first world problem
13:14<supermop_work>psycho somatic?
13:15<andythenorth>when you have a physical caffeine addiction
13:15<andythenorth>and you think you're feeding it
13:15<andythenorth>and you're not :(
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: logo adapted to drive-on-right?
13:16<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: technically, yes
13:16<andythenorth>anyway, I'm stuck on liveries for mail and express vans
13:16<andythenorth>I want to do some BAD FEATURE with it
13:16<andythenorth>but not sure what
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>you mean worse than manually refitting to livery subtypes?
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>or forcefully changing livery based on engine type?
13:18<andythenorth>approximately equivalent
13:19<supermop_work>forcefully changing logos based on drive side
13:19<andythenorth>livery based on engine type might get implemented
13:19<andythenorth>supermop_work: pikka should do that, he has more pixels
13:19<andythenorth>tell him
13:19<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I *considered* livery refits :P
13:19<andythenorth>but no
13:28<Wolf01>Mmmh, I'm tempted to buy train valley 2, I have a 30% discount as train valley owner
13:29<Wolf01>But I didn't even finish the first one
13:30<Wolf01>Is V453000 still here or already in US?
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13:32<Wolf01>Also no more bug reports in NRT, is it trunk ready?
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r28003 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2018-04-04 19:45:38 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian: 4 changes by fanioz
13:52<supermop_work>what is train valley
13:52<Wolf01>Puzzle game with trains
13:54<Wolf01>Bah, why not...
13:55<Wolf01>It costs like 6 coffees
13:55<supermop_work>and only italian coffees at that?
13:56<supermop_work>i can get only two coffees here in williamsburg for that price
13:56<supermop_work>maybe 3 at a shitty bodega
13:56<Wolf01>Eh, but our espresso is like a teaspoon
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>i was about to say
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>italian espresso is named that because it's gone quickly in one sip
13:57<Wolf01>We don't use pint sized cups like the rest of the world
13:58<supermop_work>wolf, good espresso in nyc is 3.50-4
13:59<Wolf01>I know
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14:06<supermop_work>an espresso with milk, like macciato or cortado is 4-5
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14:09<supermop_work>ofc you can get a big latte for similar price, but whats the point
14:10<supermop_work>its the same amount of coffee, and there is so much milk that it no longer has intresting texure
14:10<andythenorth>peter1138: want to commit it? :P
14:11<Wolf01>I would never understand macchiato, latte, cappuccino outside of Italy :P
14:14<supermop_work>at 90+% of places in the US i wouldn't bother ordering
14:14<andythenorth>supermop_work: I'm not convinced by pax-coloured mailcars
14:15<andythenorth>I know it's UK realism but I like the solid colour
14:15<supermop_work>solid is probably fine
14:16<andythenorth>if the pax livery was 2CC not white
14:16<andythenorth>then player could choose solid or two-tone
14:18<andythenorth>the livery menu :(
14:18<andythenorth>mail cars are pax for that menu
14:18<andythenorth>unless they're carrying freight
14:18<andythenorth>then they're freight
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14:46<andythenorth>are engine-specific liveries dumb?
14:47<supermop_work>you mean red pax behind steam?
14:47<andythenorth>thinking about solid colour coaches with small engines, 2-tone with big engines
14:49<andythenorth>also not sure what to do when coaches are attached to railcars
14:49<andythenorth>there is only one bad feature in Horse right, more are needed
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15:04<Wolf01><andythenorth> are engine-specific liveries dumb? <- I would like it
15:05<andythenorth>canset and NARS do those kind of tricks
15:05<andythenorth>I like it
15:05<andythenorth>otherwise pax trains are just always same
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15:28<andythenorth>need a 3rd company colour :P
15:29<andythenorth>supermop_work: o_O
15:29<andythenorth>just company colours
15:29<supermop_work>such swallow / executive
15:29<supermop_work>andythenorth: +1 to 3cc
15:30<supermop_work>what about the yellow stripe at the top on buffet car?
15:31<andythenorth>that would be specific to buffet car yes
15:31<supermop_work>warning panels are 2cc not yellow?>
15:32<Eddi|zuHause><Wolf01> I would never understand macchiato, latte, cappuccino outside of Italy :P <-- just a quick tip: if you ever travel to a foreign country, never try a food that has your country name in it. it has probably nothing to do with food actually from your country
15:33<supermop_work>Eddi|zuHause: maybe it is more interesting than what you have back home?
15:33<supermop_work>i enjoy australian American Pale Ales
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_work: i guess the main problem is difference between expectation and result
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>if at home you order "X" and get "X", and in the foreign country you order "X" and get "Y", then you'll likely be all sorts of disappointed
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15:38<Wolf01>When you go in Rome and order a pizza... never again :D
15:39<@Rubidium>those pizzas are arguably better than the ones you find in the freezer of supermarkets over here
15:39<@Rubidium>at least that's my experience
15:41<@Rubidium>having said that, even domino's better than what you find in the supermarket over here...
15:41*andythenorth wondered what ottd livery magic would do with bi-mode engines
15:42<andythenorth>it doesn't flick between electric and diesel liveries
15:42<andythenorth>which is good
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16:06<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
16:06<Chrill>GOOD FEATURE
16:06<andythenorth>flipping vehicle in depot swaps livery
16:06<Chrill>awesome feature
16:07<Chrill>maybe not?
16:07<andythenorth>dunno. Mail cars will have 2 liveries availabble, chosen at random
16:07<andythenorth>and they're symmetrical
16:07<andythenorth>so eh
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: do bi-mode engines actually work nowadays? as in, have an articulated part with one railtype and one with another railtype
16:08<andythenorth>I just check the railtype and set power accordingly
16:09<andythenorth>that works
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>that only works if you know all the railtypes
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16:10<andythenorth>but for a limited case of 'you', I know all the railtypes :P
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16:20<andythenorth>is there a var for 'vehicle is flipped'?
16:30*andythenorth reads src
16:33<andythenorth>but that's var C8 also :o
16:34<andythenorth>so what is C8?
16:35<andythenorth>I thought C8 tracked the reversal of the entire consist at stations?
16:35<andythenorth>for push-pull nonsense
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16:36<supermop_work>Eddi|zuHause: bi-mode by articulated is interesting idea
16:37<supermop_work>andythenorth: i think there is a different var for that
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>there's two different kinds of flipped
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>one you can do manually in depot
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>and one that happens at end of line
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure there's variables for either
16:39<andythenorth>VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION is 0x48 in newgrf_engine.cpp
16:40<andythenorth>which I think is var C8?
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16:40<andythenorth>I need to read nml src now
16:40<andythenorth>ah vehicle_is_flipped
16:40<andythenorth>not documented
16:41<andythenorth>this is groundhog day, I had this identical conversation with frosch already :P
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>that's not really how groundhog day works :p
17:00<andythenorth>oh I'm banned from newgrf wiki again :(
17:00<andythenorth>I got unbanned for a bit
17:02<andythenorth>lol case sensitive username with caps
17:03<andythenorth>forums account is lower-case
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17:12<Thedarkb>When should I convert to electric with 2cc?
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18:18<andythenorth>sign it's bedtime :P
18:21<andythenorth>I have a BAD FEATURE
18:22<andythenorth>Pikka: coach liveries change depending which engine is used
18:23<andythenorth>that's not the BAD FEATURE mind
18:23<Pikka>UKRS2 did different liveries for the steam locos... western vs southern etc. So yes, if UKRS2 did it it must be terrible.
18:24<andythenorth>UKRS 2 is famously terrible
18:24<andythenorth>I definitely didn't use it in every game for a few years
18:24<Pikka>if they're matching the loco like an MU or a purpose-built trainset, then it's not so bad
18:26<andythenorth>wow you really did do that in UKRS 2
18:27<andythenorth>also wtf is the pannier tank doing when I add coaches :P
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>"thank god there's ukrs 2.5"... is a sentence nobody ever said
18:28<andythenorth>I never used 'real colours' so I missed the full effect :P
18:28<andythenorth>I was thinking I'd just have 2 pax coach liveries, one for small engines, and one for big engines
18:28<Pikka>about 80% of the code in UKRS2 is 'real colours', and no-one ever used it :P
18:29<andythenorth>NFO is compact though
18:29<andythenorth>so not much wasted there :)
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18:29<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE is swapping livery by flipping the vehicle
18:29<andythenorth>var C8
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18:30<Supercheese>Bad Feature is including moutain spa resorts in the game ;)
18:31<Supercheese>bad Bad joke
18:31<Pikka>terrible Supercheese
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18:31<Pikka>andy, definitely sounds like BAD FEATURES
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18:32<Pikka>not least because if you don't put a note in the extra vehicle text, no-one will ever discover it ;)
18:32<andythenorth>it will get reported as a bug :)
18:33<andythenorth>I maxed out realism, using the livery settings
18:33<Pikka>far too realisms
18:33<andythenorth>do you like my Wizzo? o_O
18:33<andythenorth>(the diesel)
18:33<Pikka>Such Wiz
18:34<andythenorth>it's like a class 35-42-52
18:34<andythenorth>realistic trains are silly
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18:34<Pikka>people seem to like them though
18:34<andythenorth>that chopper is nice, but have you considered making it something invented? o_O
18:35<Pikka>like an armoured soviet missile train?
18:35<andythenorth>Mr Bond.
18:35<Pikka>and Mr Bean
18:35<andythenorth>class 17 I was thinking
18:35<andythenorth>only chibi
18:36<andythenorth>no nvm :P
18:39<Pikka>is a chibi 17 a 14?
18:39<andythenorth>yes, but with bogies
18:39<andythenorth>so it can go 80mph
18:39<andythenorth>Little Bear in Horse 1 :P
18:40<andythenorth>or 'Dead Horse' as it's now known
18:40<andythenorth>I put a chopper in Horse 2, but it's 3,000HP
18:41<Pikka>lower power locos are nice
18:41<andythenorth>I have a class 73-74 with a pantograph
18:41<Pikka>everything just cruising along at full speed all the time is very TTO
18:41<andythenorth>on diesel
18:41<Pikka>we have a physics engine now, we may as well show it off :P
18:42<andythenorth>so I figured out coaches and mail vans
18:42<andythenorth>except when they're attached to 128s and Scooby Doo
18:42<andythenorth>or 121s
18:43<andythenorth>if I build 2 units of 121, do I get a 117, or 2 121s?
18:44<andythenorth>and if I put a coach in-between 2 121s
18:44<andythenorth>do I get a mk1, or a 117 TCL
18:44<andythenorth>probably yes again
18:45<Pikka>well, if it were me, I'd go for the standard MUs rather than the 121s. :P
18:45<andythenorth>I think I make the railcars by putting yellow ends on the coaches
18:45<andythenorth>then the problem is sovled
18:45<andythenorth>all looks about same
18:45<Pikka>yes, that is also a solution
18:45<Pikka>and what I've done so far for my 101 :P
18:46<andythenorth>any picture? :P
18:46<Pikka>I'd tend to make any combination of 121s and passenger cars look like a 117. But I'd also tend to just make it build as a standard double-ended MU in the first place.
18:47<andythenorth>I can always add it later eh :P
18:47<andythenorth>why would one add a coach to a 121 anyway? :P
18:47<andythenorth>just add another 121
18:47<Pikka> from the other day
18:48<Pikka>just coaches with fronts and exhaust pipes :P
18:48<Pikka>isn't very realisms
18:48<andythenorth>is good
18:51<andythenorth>is mail option?
18:51<Pikka>haven't drawn one yet... still wondering whether the "no livery change on cargo refit" rule applies
18:52<andythenorth>that horse bolted
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18:53<andythenorth>livery change on refit is a GOOD FEATURE
18:53<andythenorth>esp. if the livery indicates current cargo
18:53<Pikka>I guess you're not often going to autorefit a DMU between passengers and cargo :P
18:54<Pikka>but then I have your problem
18:54<andythenorth>V convinced me that vehicles should indicate cargo as often as possible 
18:54<Pikka>stripe or solid CC?
18:55<andythenorth>I've been saving this for that question
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18:56<andythenorth>such nice
18:57<andythenorth>there's always
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19:05<andythenorth>ok I match pax and mail livery to engine 'role'
19:06<andythenorth>with option for solid CC if flipped
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19:06<andythenorth>and some kind of weird magic for pure mail trains
19:07<andythenorth>then profit
19:07<andythenorth>also bed
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 05 00:00:16 2018