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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-07

---Logopened Sat Apr 07 00:00:19 2018
01:13-!-Cubey [~Coobies@pool-108-45-155-209.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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01:49-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
01:50<andythenorth>o/
01:51<andythenorth>Pikka: AV 9 innit http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-43631998/airbus-builds-a-new-super-transporter
01:53<Pikka>they're in av8 iirc
01:53<Supercheese>0.o
01:54-!-Ttech [ttech@2600:3c00::17:8abf] has joined #openttd
01:54-!-Ttech is "Thomas Techinus" on #openttd @#textual #qemu @#swift #observium #oftc @#botters #help #linode #moocows #munin @#transcendence
01:56<Pikka>https://i.imgur.com/xOGvY1B.jpg
01:56<Pikka>CivilAI has choochoos
01:57<Supercheese>Chuchus
01:57<Supercheese>when they crash they give jelly
01:57<Pikka>yes
02:04<andythenorth>such hog
02:04<andythenorth>Pikka: MUs
02:05<andythenorth>how many cars before they turn into 2 MUs?
02:05<Pikka>yes?
02:05<andythenorth>%2 is easy
02:05<andythenorth>but 4 cars might look better
02:05*andythenorth has picture
02:05<Pikka>I don't... if people want two MUs, they can multi-head?
02:05<Pikka>& give them poor enough TE that > 4 cars is a struggle for one unit :P
02:07<andythenorth>oh redmine broke now :P
02:07<andythenorth>can't post pics
02:11<andythenorth>1 makes 1 https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68616&p=1204833#p1204833
02:11<andythenorth>2 makes 1
02:11<andythenorth>3 makes 2
02:11<andythenorth>etc
02:13<Pikka>I'd tend towards 3 being 1
02:14<andythenorth>oh good
02:14<andythenorth>that's what I'm about to do :)
02:14*andythenorth was drawing it
02:42<TrueBrain>oops ... migration hit the rate limit ... because I was doing too many other stuff ...
02:42<TrueBrain>it is only at #3000 .. this will take 2 hours more :D
02:43<andythenorth>pedal faster :)
02:55<andythenorth>DMUs done :P
03:02<andythenorth>16 rows per pax vehicle
03:07<andythenorth>13 pax vehicles
03:08<andythenorth>@calc 16 * 13
03:08<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 208
03:08<andythenorth>I should automate something :P
03:10<TrueBrain>automation is for the weak
03:10<TrueBrain>real men do everything manual!
03:10<andythenorth>what about manually writing the automation? o_O
03:12<TrueBrain>only if it is done bit by bit
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03:22-!-Compu is "Compu" on #/r/openttd #openttdcoop #openttdcoop.stable #openttd #help
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03:31*andythenorth doesn't like writing 0s and 1s :(
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03:48<andythenorth>Pikka: so I did 8/8 railcars
03:49<Pikka>yes
03:49<andythenorth>pls give me reasons not to do 4/8 xor 6/8
03:49<andythenorth>6/8 + 6/8 + 4/8 van = 1 tile train
03:49<andythenorth>and the forums people seem to be obsessed with pacers
03:49<andythenorth>so I could
03:49<Pikka>but who needs 1 tile trains? are station tiles in short supply?
03:49<andythenorth>well then
03:50<andythenorth>I'd draw 64 spriterows
03:50<andythenorth>and never use them in my game
03:50<andythenorth>but they'd look nice, right? :P
03:52<Pikka>mmm maybe. can you draw anything reasonable at 4/8?
03:53<Pikka>8/8 is chibi enough for me :P
04:02<andythenorth>hmm
04:02<andythenorth>4/8 looks great
04:02<andythenorth>but it's total pointless novelty
04:03<andythenorth>and I have 180 vehicles to draw already :P
04:03<Pikka>"come back" to it later
04:04<andythenorth>I have spritesheets full of — views for 'come back to it later' :D
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04:11<TrueBrain>I remember what my issue was with Jenkins ... they explain how their plugins must be configured, but not how you should use the, ... which is a minefield :(
04:13<Wolf01>Moin
04:18<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
04:27<peter1138>I never got auto-building to work yet.
04:28<peter1138>Gotta log in and kick off a build manually :p
04:34<TrueBrain>it turns out that what I want is very difficult :P I just want proper docker-in-docker support ..
04:36<andythenorth>can you run a hypervisor in docker? :P
04:37<TrueBrain>no; but you can connect to the docker tha tis running docker
04:37<andythenorth>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12420809
04:37<andythenorth>Turtles All The Way Down
04:38<TrueBrain>but so I have in Configure Tools "Docker" with "Install automatically" .. yet .. it doesnt
04:38<Wolf01>Dockerception
04:41<Wolf01>Mmmm I can't keep the windows open, it seem to live in a kennel... time to put on Sabaton to cover the noise
04:41<andythenorth>https://devops.stackexchange.com/questions/676/why-is-docker-in-docker-considered-bad/681
04:41<andythenorth>:P
04:42<andythenorth>whenever I've built an app with turtles in, it's sunk a company
04:42<andythenorth>ok, I did it once
04:42<andythenorth>dashboards that contained modules
04:42<andythenorth>and one of the modules was 'dashboard'
04:43<Wolf01>Ha!
04:43<Wolf01>So I'm not the only one with that insane idea
04:43<Wolf01>I wanted to propose it to my boss next week :P
04:44<peter1138>andythenorth, the second awswer in that link is WTF
04:45<peter1138>'How would your users like it if they entered their payment details, clicked "Purchase"'
04:45<peter1138>Do they think people are using CI to deploy to live services?!
04:46<andythenorth>hmm
04:46<andythenorth>I once proposed that as a joke at work
04:46<andythenorth>but green-light deploy is a whole thing
04:46<andythenorth>@summon supermop
04:46<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: out of chalk
04:47<Wolf01>@DorpsGek use blood
04:47<TrueBrain>that first answer is BULLSHIT :P
04:47<TrueBrain>Docker in Docker uses the Docker API
04:47<TrueBrain>there is no concurrency issue
04:47<TrueBrain>at ALL
04:48<TrueBrain>Docker in Docker doesn't mean running a dockerd in a Docker ... (as that doesnt really work)
04:48<TrueBrain>lolz
04:48<TrueBrain>annyyywaaayyyy
04:48<TrueBrain>someone is wrong on the interwebz :D
04:49<Wolf01>:P
04:49<TrueBrain>owh boy, they really wanted to run dockerd in a docker ..
04:49<TrueBrain>that is just plain stupid and senseless
04:50*andythenorth distracted TB sorry :(
04:51<TrueBrain>:P
04:52<andythenorth>don't like it when devzone is dead :(
04:52<andythenorth>if my SSD dies, I lose all my work, can't push
04:56<TrueBrain>why is devzone dead?
04:56<TrueBrain>and create a github project :P
04:56<TrueBrain>private if youhave to
04:56<andythenorth>fair idea
04:56<andythenorth>can github do mercurial?
04:57<TrueBrain>no
04:57<TrueBrain>stop doing mercurial ffs
04:57<andythenorth>can't, the compile farm requires it
04:57<TrueBrain>things to fix, I hear ..
04:57<andythenorth>I can't even do mercurial properly :P
04:58<andythenorth>I am waiting for you to win
04:58<andythenorth>then we can put grf-building-as-a-service on openttd CF :P
04:58<andythenorth>and github the grfs
04:58<TrueBrain>would be nice
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04:59<TrueBrain>create a Docker that can do that
04:59<andythenorth>provide a docker image
04:59<TrueBrain>;)
04:59<andythenorth>people can use the docker for dev as well
04:59<andythenorth>if they have stupid platforms
04:59<andythenorth>then we can stop building windows binary for nmlc
04:59-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
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04:59<TrueBrain>so make a Docker that builds grfs from nmls :)
05:00*andythenorth finds Docker docs
05:01<andythenorth>ok not today, but soon
05:01<LordAro>docker? docker docker. docker.
05:01<andythenorth>I need to learn docker for work I think
05:01<andythenorth>we should maybe be using it
05:01<andythenorth>what's it for? :P
05:01*LordAro uses lxc containers
05:02<LordAro>y'know, if you wanted an alternative
05:02<TrueBrain>you know, if you want to do the same but act like you are doing something else :P
05:02*andythenorth is confused what docker is, because I've seen some very odd claims about it on the internet
05:02<TrueBrain>chroot++
05:02<TrueBrain>jails+++
05:02<andythenorth>oh it's just jails
05:02<andythenorth>ok
05:02<TrueBrain>namespacing ftw
05:02<andythenorth>we used to use jails
05:02<andythenorth>then we dropped FreeBSD
05:02<TrueBrain>jails only seperated filesystem, and a bit processes
05:03<TrueBrain>docker namespaces nearly everything
05:03<TrueBrain>and if you add cgroups, even resources can be tuned
05:03<andythenorth>it's not immune to stupid people though?
05:03<andythenorth>i.e. javascript developers
05:03<TrueBrain>so a VM without a separate kernel
05:03<andythenorth>how isolated is it?
05:03<TrueBrain>lot of stupid people; not much any technique solves about that :D
05:03<andythenorth>I've seen odd claims that docker containers are 'secure'
05:03<TrueBrain>in principle, anything that runs in a Docker cannot escape to the host
05:03<TrueBrain>but ... that is not completely true
05:04<TrueBrain>Docker in the end runs as 'root' process on the host system
05:04<TrueBrain>if you can influence how your docker is started, you can do anything
05:04<TrueBrain>example, you can volume mount
05:04<peter1138>Much like with kvm :p
05:04<TrueBrain>much like any host/guest system
05:04<TrueBrain>but here in a Dockerfile you define these things
05:04<TrueBrain>so it can go unnoticed
05:04<andythenorth>so Docker beat Vagrant
05:04<peter1138>I remember early Linux containers, before lxc. I shut down a guest, and it shut down the whole machine.
05:04<TrueBrain>Vagrant is dead, yes
05:05<TrueBrain>Docker won :P
05:05<andythenorth>we were supposed to switch to Vagrant for dev
05:05<andythenorth>but we hated the concept
05:05<peter1138>Much like git won over mercurial.
05:05<TrueBrain>dont use Vagrant ... it is only hurt
05:05<TrueBrain>Docker For Windows is basically Vagrant btw
05:05<andythenorth>every 2 weeks we have some painful build issue on local machines in dev
05:05<TrueBrain>as it starts VirtualBox to start Ubuntu to run Docker :D
05:05<peter1138>o_O
05:05<andythenorth>so the 'solution' was to switch everything Vagrant, and have painful issues for every line of code
05:05<andythenorth>and have to edit in emacs
05:06<TrueBrain>yes; stupid idea :D (sorry, but it is)
05:06<andythenorth>'because it would be predictable'
05:06<peter1138>I should probably read up on how to deploy my own docker stuff.
05:06<TrueBrain>if you want reproducable builds, use Docker
05:06<andythenorth>we do
05:06<peter1138>Then again, currently I use kvm for full isolation anyway.
05:06<andythenorth>but we're not sure whether we want reproducible containers, or full Cent OS images
05:07<peter1138>But to deploy a generic kvm guest and then deploy a docker inside would be useful for reproducability, indeed.
05:07<andythenorth>so how do I dev inside a docker container?
05:07<TrueBrain>what I like about Docker is how I use it for the CF now .. somewhere else the steps are defined what should happen .. and everyone running that container the same stuff will happen .. so if something breaks .. it either breaks for all, or it is a local issue :D
05:07<andythenorth>I have to switch all my tools to shell?
05:07<TrueBrain>normally, you do not
05:07<peter1138>So much faffing about configuring each kvm guest to be a specific machine.
05:07<andythenorth>emacs and stuff?
05:07<TrueBrain>you develop on your host, how ever you like
05:07<andythenorth>or we just build dockers for deploy?
05:07<TrueBrain>you use Docker to run what-ever you work on
05:07<andythenorth>it's part of pipeline?
05:08<TrueBrain>so, for example, I have used it to start Django with my website
05:08<TrueBrain>have it autoloading
05:08<TrueBrain>autoreloading
05:08<TrueBrain>so I can edit on myhost system
05:08<TrueBrain>and refresh my page
05:08<andythenorth>sounds plausible
05:08<andythenorth>is it slow?
05:08<TrueBrain>on linux, if you do 'ps aux' you see the docker processes
05:08<TrueBrain>no; for most things it is near-host-speed
05:08<TrueBrain>a few things are slow .. for example TCP port forwarding
05:08<TrueBrain>(there is a proxy in between)
05:09<TrueBrain>Docker is just a fancy shell around lxc, which is part of the kernel
05:09<andythenorth>our local machines are faster than the production VMs anyway, going slower might be more realistic :P
05:09<TrueBrain>it is nothing special tbh
05:09<TrueBrain>just organized
05:09<TrueBrain>(and popular)
05:10<andythenorth>how do docker containers interact with orchestration (Ansible, etc)?
05:10<andythenorth>are they frozen and never changed?
05:10<TrueBrain>a docker image is build via a Dockerfile
05:11<TrueBrain>and a bit depending on what you want, Dockers are not persistant
05:11<TrueBrain>you mostly mount a volume from your host system in a docker
05:11<TrueBrain>(to get files there)
05:11<andythenorth>ok
05:11<TrueBrain>or on build put those files in there already
05:11<TrueBrain>there are ways of using Ansible with Docker .. but it is a bit 2 different worlds
05:11<andythenorth>orchestration isn't needed if you have images?
05:12<TrueBrain>depends on your goal :D No generic answer for that :)
05:13<andythenorth>we use Ansible for (1) machine builds package upgrades (2) deploying / upgrading our apps (3) gathering facts our app instances in production
05:13<andythenorth>probably (1) goes away with Docker
05:14<andythenorth>maybe (2)
05:14<TrueBrain>depending on your goal etc, you can replace your whole CI/CD with Docker
05:14<TrueBrain>kubinetes (I think I spelled that correctly) is an example
05:14<TrueBrain>CoreOS (which stricly seen runs rkt, not docker .. but they are similar in idea) has a lot written about stuff like that
05:15<andythenorth>ha
05:15*andythenorth will wait for something to win there :P
05:15<andythenorth>we've adopted tech on the basis of blog posts before :P
05:15<TrueBrain>lol ... I was wondering why my Jenkins didnt do what I expected ... I configured 2 things that do the same .. I liked one .. so I removed it .. and surprised it no longer works :D
05:15<andythenorth>I now prefer to have "nothing" compared to "losing tech"
05:18<TrueBrain>ha, this now works :D LOL! :D
05:18<TrueBrain>okay .. this makes the CF a lot safer
05:19<TrueBrain>every job spins up a new Docker which is the Jenkins agent, which spins up other dockers to do what-eer I tell it to do
05:20<TrueBrain>now the next issue .. it assumes the docker host can write files it can read, Docker Pipeline in Jenkins
05:20<TrueBrain>that is unexpected :P
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05:25<TrueBrain>anyway, now first some other job to preform ...
05:26<TrueBrain>tam tam tammmmm
05:27<TrueBrain>all issues arrived on the other side
05:27<TrueBrain>guess it is time to put some other stuff in read-only
05:27<TrueBrain>or shall I wait for frosch123 to arrive ...
05:35<TrueBrain>eints is disabled
05:35<TrueBrain>well, after the restart, anyway :D
05:36<TrueBrain>how to disallow svn commit .. hmm
05:36<TrueBrain>we do that via ssh ..
05:38<andythenorth>bbl
05:38-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd []
05:40<TrueBrain>there we go, svn read-only
05:40<Wolf01>:O
05:40<TrueBrain>now final conversion ..
05:41<Wolf01>Do you have a backup?
05:41<TrueBrain>a backup of what?
05:41<Wolf01>Of the entire server
05:42<TrueBrain>why?
05:42<Wolf01>Even the hardware :P
05:42<TrueBrain>backups with no purpose are no backups worth your while
05:43<Wolf01>In every company I worked we had a lot of ability to fuck up things, badly
05:43<Wolf01>Once was my fault
05:44<TrueBrain>you always have a lot of ways to fuck things up
05:44<TrueBrain>but last I read, making things read-only only makes that window smaller :D
05:44<TrueBrain>83 MiB of git daa
05:44<TrueBrain>not bad
05:46<Wolf01>Ok, 1.5 hours of doing nothing could be enough... now I should do something
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05:53<TrueBrain>okay .. think this is all how it should be ..
05:57<TrueBrain>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD
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06:05<peter1138>Is it live yet?
06:06<peter1138>How do devs commit? :p
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06:07<TrueBrain>https://www.google.com will tell you just fine
06:08<TrueBrain>someone needs to go through the wiki and update all the links and insturctions there :)
06:08<peter1138>Not really. We had git for years, and of course committing to that was a no-no (probably not even possible.)
06:11<TrueBrain>we had git; we now have github
06:11<TrueBrain>google tells you all about how github works, and how you can work with it
06:11<TrueBrain>for any further instructions, frosch123 is your man :)
06:11<peter1138>le sigh
06:11<peter1138>So we still use svn then.
06:12<TrueBrain>svn is in read-only
06:12<peter1138>This is far more awkward than it needs to be.
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06:14<peter1138>I'm guessing the answer to my question "How do devs commit?" is actually "instead of commiting to svn you now commit to github" or something like that. But you just tell me to Google it.
06:18<TrueBrain>@op
06:18-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
06:18-!-TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.8.0 | https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy
06:18<@TrueBrain>@deop
06:18-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
06:20<TrueBrain>updated openttd.org frontpage, eints is read-only, flyspray has the correct notice, svn is read-only, http:// to vcs URLs point to github, IRC topics update .. hmm .. am I missing something ...
06:22<TrueBrain>permissions on github should be okay too ..
06:22<TrueBrain>that only leaves CI
06:25<peter1138>Are the -Codechange: -Fix: etc commit messages still enforced?
06:27<TrueBrain>hmm, pre-commit-hook .. hmm
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06:32<Pikka>how should I name AI trains?
06:33<Pikka>buses are "Townname Number", planes are "Spirit of Townname", etc... trains are little industrial shunts to factories.
06:34<Pikka>cutesy shunter names? Mercury, Sooty, etc? Hmm...
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06:38<Wolf01>Quak
06:38<TrueBrain>frosch123: it is done
06:43<frosch123>yay,work being done while i am asleep :)
06:47<frosch123>i replaced the bug tracker links in the 1.8.0 and RC1 news items
06:48<TrueBrain>good :)
06:48<frosch123>also triggered a restart of the silly redmine vm
06:48<frosch123>if you care :p
06:48<TrueBrain>I already said to andy, he should make a docker to create grfs from nmls
06:49<TrueBrain>right, lunch time; after that, more fiddling with Jenkins and Docker :)
06:50<frosch123>so, did anyone figure out whether windows git can run python commit hooks, or only perl, or do we not care about windows folks?
06:50<TrueBrain>no clue
06:50<TrueBrain>what we can do, how-ever, is add to the CI that he does pre-commit validation
06:50<TrueBrain>a bit late
06:50<TrueBrain>but more generic?
06:51<frosch123>yes, i already assumed that pre-push commit hook is fine in python
07:01<LordAro>i think the CI is probably the best way to go
07:01<LordAro>assuming you want to continue enforcing commit messages
07:01<frosch123>definitely
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07:02<frosch123>also indention and whitespace
07:03<LordAro>identation is a bit harder, although checking for tabs instead of spaces seems reasonable
07:03<frosch123>well, essentially the same as the svn hook did before
07:03<frosch123>everything for the push check
07:04<frosch123>if possible also checks for commit so people with usable dev environment get an earlier notice
07:04<LordAro>fair
07:05<frosch123>not sure whether gh issues should get a prefix or not
07:05<LordAro>shouldn't be too difficult to say "copy the contents of this folder into hooks directory"
07:05<LordAro>or however git hooks actually work
07:05<frosch123>"-Fix [gh#123]" vs "-Fix [#123]"
07:05<frosch123>LordAro: it's easy on linux
07:06<LordAro>you'll need to drop the [] if you want autolinking
07:06<frosch123>you can just assume presence of python and stuff
07:09<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> %2 is easy <-- there's no reason why you shouldn't be capable of doing %3 or %4
07:11<TrueBrain>frosch123: GH really like #123
07:11<TrueBrain>it doesnt like GH#123
07:11<TrueBrain>and if you can supply a Docker image which does pre-commit/post-commit validation, I can hook it up in the CI
07:11<TrueBrain>see https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD-CF/ how :)
07:12<frosch123>TrueBrain: looks like i have no read access to the svn hook for c&p
07:12<TrueBrain>haha, I had to disable SSH yes :D
07:14<TrueBrain>frosch123: a tar.gz in your devs home folder
07:14<frosch123>thanks :)
07:15<TrueBrain>was a bit annoying .. you cannot make a subversion read-only if people can ssh to the box :D
07:15<frosch123>chmod not enough?
07:16<TrueBrain>not while keeping read mode
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>mount -o ro?
07:16<TrueBrain>that does work
07:16<TrueBrain>:P
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07:25<Eddi|zuHause>but how does that work better than chmod a-w?
07:26<TrueBrain>subversion is .. euh .... well .. weird; every Nth commit it makes a folder where he doesnt preserve the permissions set
07:26<TrueBrain>so on regular intervals scripts run to fix permissions
07:26<TrueBrain>and hoping I get them all is .. euh ..
07:26<TrueBrain>well .. I rather disable ssh :)
07:27<TrueBrain>the other issue is that subversion wants to write to some folders to read data
07:27<TrueBrain>(lock-files, I always assumed)
07:27<TrueBrain>rather safe than sorry :)
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>which brings us back to how "ro" works then?
07:28<TrueBrain>good point
07:28<TrueBrain>it wouldnt
07:40<Wolf01>TB: why not put SVN in read only by setting the permissions in the svn config?
07:40<Wolf01>Just put "* r"
07:40<frosch123>it doesn't really matter
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07:44<TrueBrain>Wolf01: we dont use svn protocol; we use svn+ssh
07:44<TrueBrain>it ignores the authz file completely
07:44<Wolf01>Mmmh
07:44<TrueBrain>(as it reads * = r :P)
07:44<TrueBrain>and yeah, it really doesnt matter :)
07:44<TrueBrain>OpenTTD runs in many many VMs
07:44<TrueBrain>SVN is the only thing running on the VM I disabled SSH of
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07:57<TrueBrain>so badly documented, this pipeline stuff of Jenkins :( Snippets of examples .. that is it
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08:20<LANJesus>so.. poking around the admin interface i noticed the admin Poll command is supposed to send the update type as a uint8, but it sends the update type as a uint16 in the server Protocol packet
08:20<LANJesus>what's up with that guys?
08:21<peter1138>What's an admin interface?
08:24<LANJesus>src/network/network_admin.cpp that stuff
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08:25<andythenorth>Pikka: QLD set is 'Caning It' no?
08:25<LANJesus>specifically "AdminUpdateType type = (AdminUpdateType)p->Recv_uint8();"
08:25<Pikka>hopefully not, andy
08:25<andythenorth>Brisvegas Nights?
08:26<TrueBrain>LANJesus: I expect a pull request no later than tomorrow ;)
08:26*andythenorth should go back to drawing mail cars eh :P
08:26<LANJesus>TrueBrain: i can do that if you want, but it'd break things and change the admin protocol
08:26<TrueBrain>or change the documentation? :D
08:26<LANJesus>it'd break all the admin interfaces : P
08:26<LANJesus>looks like that hasn't changed since 2014
08:26<TrueBrain>documentation never broke anything! :P
08:27<LANJesus>the documentation for this is severely lacking
08:27<TrueBrain>it used to be fully documented :)
08:27<LANJesus>where?
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08:27<TrueBrain>but I am a bit lost .. you say it is wrong, but you cannot fix it :P I am missing apiece of the puzzle
08:27<LANJesus>the code might be documented but the admin protocol is uh... lolz
08:27<LANJesus>i can fix it but it'd break a bunch of things.
08:28<TrueBrain>so it isnt broken?
08:28<LANJesus>probably better to fix when the protocol needs to be changed
08:28<LANJesus>it's inconsistent.
08:28<LANJesus>eg, server gives me a tomato, then tells me to stick a tomato in its potato socket later.
08:28<TrueBrain>on the wiki, search for network protocol; that used to describe everything .. but I see it no longer does :)
08:29<andythenorth>where is supermop? :P
08:29<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you really expect us to answer that? :D
08:29<peter1138>LANJesus, fix the documentation, IK think :-)
08:29<LANJesus>i'm writing yet another admin interface ; )
08:29<peter1138>-K
08:29<andythenorth>TrueBrain: maybe
08:29<peter1138>I changed an interface the other day. I hope nothing breaks :p
08:30<andythenorth>any kittens died?
08:30<peter1138>Well the change is not live yet.
08:30<frosch123>LANJesus: the documentation is in docs/admin_network.txt
08:30<LANJesus>i found a crappy text file. https://wiki.openttd.org/Server_admin_port points me at a page that doesn't exist. i assume it means https://raw.githubusercontent.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/master/docs/admin_network.txt
08:31<peter1138>But basically the interface only worked due to a bug in the framework. Now the framework is fixed, the interface had to be updated cos it was technically invalid.
08:31<frosch123>there are also several implemenations in java, python, ...
08:31<LANJesus>frosch123: didn't like them. i'm making my own with blackjack and hookers
08:31<peter1138>LANJesus, we literally just changed to github, so yeah, not all the links have been updated yet :-)
08:32<LANJesus>congratulations.
08:32<LANJesus>i've been working on this for about three weeks, off and on
08:32<LANJesus>also working on my network coding chops
08:32<LANJesus>and async programming. bleh
08:32<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/peugklr8z <- TrueBrain, peter1138: opinions?
08:33<LANJesus>example output: Chat Packet: {"ActionTypeCode":"Chat","DestinationTypeCode":"Broadcast","ClientId":1,"Message":"GREETINGS HUMAN","Money":0}
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08:34<TrueBrain>frosch123: I am a bit used to C these days
08:34<TrueBrain>the - doesnt add anything for me
08:34<TrueBrain>just noise
08:35<peter1138>It was just to stop "stuff" type commit messages anyway ;p
08:35<peter1138>But that guy left anyway.
08:36<TrueBrain>that is true; it was literally created for 1 person
08:36<LANJesus>are you guys familiar with squashing and rebasing?
08:36<frosch123>yes, but now i want to reject "make cb123 do what my realism bs grf need" :p
08:36<LANJesus>useful for intermediate commits on your local repo
08:36<peter1138>frosch123, yeah it is useful to have a standard.
08:36<LANJesus>when you want to merge back to the main branch
08:37<peter1138>We've been using git for years, just not as the main repo.
08:37<peter1138>Except for the strange people who settled on mercurial.
08:37<LANJesus>i'm allergic to hg
08:37<TrueBrain>oeh, it seems I have something that looks like a CI working :D
08:37<peter1138>\o/
08:37<TrueBrain>just not a lot of control .. as this plugin really does everything
08:38<LANJesus>congratulations!
08:38<LordAro>woo!
08:38<LordAro>frosch123: i think i like C best as well
08:39<LordAro>alberth & i dropped the dash for frct as well
08:39<frosch123>so "fix" in front of all issues for the closing, hashes just as it
08:39<frosch123>ah, frct, another project to eyeball for examples
08:39<LANJesus>does github support # links to issues directly?
08:40<frosch123>yes, and with certain keyword combinations it also closes them when merging to main branch
08:40<LordAro>TrueBrain: frosch123: can't remember if i told you about openage - vast amounts of (python) CI checkers
08:40<LordAro>thry go as far as checking the copyright in the files
08:40<TrueBrain>put them in a docker and make us happy? :D
08:40<frosch123>LordAro: i think openttd is the only project in the world doing tab indention
08:41<peter1138>Was there an easy way to switch to the new repo is should I just do a new clone?
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08:41<andythenorth>Pikka: splitting mail and freight liveries on mail cars is stupid?
08:42<Pikka>I wouldn't
08:42<frosch123>peter1138: i pulled both, added tags to the latest identical revisions
08:42<andythenorth>too much drawing
08:42<Pikka>and players will tend to use them for "mail-like" freight, I would think... they'd expect them to match
08:42<frosch123>and then merged them into the deprecated branch
08:42<frosch123>then i can rebase onto the deprecated head and the move over to the new branch
08:43<TrueBrain>use git rebase --onto
08:43<TrueBrain>allows you to give a total of 3 revisions
08:44<peter1138>k
08:44<peter1138>Hmm... /* $Id$ */
08:44<andythenorth>also if they have a freight livery, they're just fast boxcars eh
08:44<peter1138>Kinda pointless now.
08:44<andythenorth>k
08:44<TrueBrain>frosch123: any problem if I add Jenkinsfile to the repo? :)
08:44<LANJesus>whomp. i now have a fork of OpenTTD-Deprecated. w/e
08:44<LANJesus>i'll live.
08:44<peter1138>Heh
08:45<Wolf01>LANJesus: everyone does :P
08:46<LANJesus>J0anJosep has both
08:47<frosch123>hmm, how do i point the remote master branch to a different branch though...
08:48<TrueBrain>what do you mean?
08:48<TrueBrain>get the branch local and push it to another place?
08:48<frosch123>nah, i am converting my github fork
08:49<frosch123>https://github.com/frosch123/OpenTTD
08:49<TrueBrain>git remote rename origin deprecated
08:49<frosch123>i guess i should just fork new
08:49<TrueBrain>yup
08:49<TrueBrain>rename your current
08:49<TrueBrain>fork new
08:49<LANJesus>add new remote, merge it into existing ?
08:49<TrueBrain>make a local git with both as remote
08:49<TrueBrain>rebase onto
08:49<TrueBrain>push
08:49<LANJesus>yeah that
08:49<frosch123>i have both local
08:49<LANJesus>in the same repo?
08:50<TrueBrain>you have to fork both
08:50<frosch123>yes, and i move the local master
08:50<LANJesus>go to your fork, add the new repo as an additional remote
08:50<LANJesus>rename your old one to "old" or something, call the new one origin
08:51<LANJesus>meh, you'll figure it out. peace.
08:52<TrueBrain>I would suggest: go to GitHub, rename your fork to OpenTTD-Deprecated, fork OpenTTD/OpenTTD, checkout the new fork of OpenTTD, add a remote to your forked OpenTTD-Deprecated
08:52<TrueBrain>git rebase onto for the branches you want
08:52<TrueBrain>and push to your forked OpenTTD
08:53<TrueBrain>as I dont think GitHub otherwise will see that you changed fork-location
08:55<peter1138>Meh, I don't appear to have a repo with anything else in it, so just doing a fresh clone anyway.
08:55<peter1138>I had some stuff on my SSD which died ;(
08:56<peter1138>I think I lost the patch which finished the game.
08:57<andythenorth>oops
09:00<TrueBrain>Bamboo ran out of memory; it didnt fit next to Jenkins :D
09:00<TrueBrain>oops :D
09:00<peter1138>Bloody java.
09:00<LordAro>ha
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09:03<LordAro>TrueBrain: maybe dorpsgek should add the translators email address
09:05<TrueBrain>for the icon! :P
09:05<TrueBrain>they tell me there is a visual pipeline editor in Jenkins
09:05<TrueBrain>just all ways that MIGHT lead to it, I get errors
09:07<TrueBrain>I make a file://, and it tells me: Saving Pipelines is not supported using http/https
09:07<TrueBrain>yes .. I am using file ..
09:07<TrueBrain>ffs
09:08*peter1138 does the most important thing: updated my profile image on github :p
09:10<andythenorth>is important
09:10<LordAro>TrueBrain: exactly!
09:12<TrueBrain>ah, found a way to get the editor .. but now I cannot see the resulting Jenkinsfile
09:12<TrueBrain>FAIL
09:12<TrueBrain>so much FAIL
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09:16<TrueBrain>ANDY!
09:16<TrueBrain>HE HAS ARRIVED
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09:30<andythenorth>lo supermop
09:30<andythenorth>TrueBrain is even noisier than me
09:30<andythenorth>if he was here a lot, he would beat my channel line count
09:30<Wolf01>How do I rebase via github?
09:31<TrueBrain>Wolf01: check around 14:52 (currently 15:30)
09:31<TrueBrain>still fits on my screen
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09:35<andythenorth>bbl
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09:39<supermop>yo
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09:50<TrueBrain>just wasted 15 minutes because I shadowed a variable ... and no indication of that .. ugh
09:50<peter1138>Bah, how do I add the windows useful stuff to my project without making the project files change :p
09:52<Wolf01>So I now have ottddepr into my ottd clone, must I run "git rebase --onto mybranch --root ottddepr/mybranch"?
09:53<TrueBrain>sounds about right
09:53<TrueBrain>best thing about git, you cannot go wrong if you just did a fresh clone
09:53<TrueBrain>:D
09:53<TrueBrain>I didnt use --root btw
09:55<TrueBrain>git rebase --onto mybranch ottddepr/master ottddepr/mybranch
09:55<Wolf01>Right
09:55<TrueBrain>is what I think you should do; but the git manual has pretty pictures
09:55<TrueBrain>git rebase --onto master next topic
09:55<TrueBrain>master is new master, next is old master, topic is HEAD
09:56<TrueBrain>that takes the commits van old master .. HEAD
09:56<TrueBrain>and puts it on new master
09:56<TrueBrain>(you can also just cherry-pick btw)
09:56<Wolf01>Hmm, fatal: needed a single revision
09:58<Wolf01>I never understood this thing, I've done it in the past with SVN
09:58<TrueBrain>if in doubt, checkout master from new OpenTTD repo, add remote to your old repo, and cherry-pick your commits
09:58<TrueBrain>this works if the amount to cherry-pick is low
09:59<TrueBrain>rebase --onto does the same, just bulky
10:00<Wolf01>Oh, I must do it reversed, I might be a special kind of stupid
10:00<frosch123>Wolf01: you can also pull from https://github.com/frosch123/OpenTTD, then rebase on master-deprecated and then rebase on master
10:01<frosch123>(the head of master-deprecated is the merge of both old and new head)
10:01<Wolf01>Eh, I need to import my feature branches :P
10:02<Wolf01>Just 5 branches
10:02<TrueBrain>frosch123: what have you done with your repo :P I assume you didnt rebase your feature branches yet? :D
10:02<TrueBrain>behind: 27k commits, ahead: 27k commits :D
10:02<frosch123>it contains both repositories
10:02<frosch123>master is new master
10:03<frosch123>master-deprecated is merge of both
10:03<TrueBrain>how does merging help?
10:03<frosch123>most stale branches are in the old branch
10:03<frosch123>it links the chains
10:03<TrueBrain>I understand what it does; but how does it help?
10:03<frosch123>you can rebase on the old branch as normal, then switchover to the new one without any intermediate changes
10:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: you do not need to lookup the hash in the new branch
10:04<TrueBrain>for branches you dont want to rebase to HEAD?
10:05<frosch123>yes, but i first want to rebase to HEAD of old branch
10:05<TrueBrain>ofc
10:05<frosch123>that should give you most automatic support
10:05<TrueBrain>funny how git does so many shit for us :D
10:06<Wolf01>Meh, if github explodes then it's my fault
10:11<Wolf01>But must I create the branches first on the new repo?
10:12<Wolf01>I can't select the branches I want as destination
10:12<TrueBrain>I have no clue where you got stuck, so that is not really possible to answer :(
10:12<Wolf01>Or maybe I'm still thinking in reverse
10:12<TrueBrain>you made a new fork? you cloned that locally? you added the old fork as a remote?
10:12<Wolf01>YEs
10:12<TrueBrain>so then something like this:
10:12<TrueBrain>git checkout origin/master -b my-branch
10:13<TrueBrain>git rebase --onto origin/master old/master old/my-branch
10:13<TrueBrain>or what frosch123 says .. as that works too he says :D
10:15<Wolf01>Shit, I have conflicts, I should sync the old branches
10:15<TrueBrain>yes; the assumption is that all branches are up-to-date
10:18<Wolf01>Meh, now I have 22k changes and I can't pull
10:19<Wolf01>Reset doesn't seem to work
10:19<Wolf01>Fresh clone in 3...2...1
10:19<TrueBrain>exactly :)
10:19<TrueBrain>first clone your deprecated fork
10:19<frosch123>sounds like andy using hg
10:19<TrueBrain>and get that up to speed :)
10:24<Wolf01>I'll finish it tomorrow, maybe, now I must go
10:24<Wolf01>Bye
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10:27<TrueBrain>okay, CI finally triggers how I expect him to
10:34<TrueBrain>7 minutes and 34 seconds to do CI validation
10:34<TrueBrain>lol
10:34<TrueBrain>I guess I have to install a shared ccache or something
10:37<LordAro>that's not too bad really
10:37<LordAro>1 core, i guess?
10:37<TrueBrain>yeah, and 2 builds
10:37<TrueBrain>frosch123: tomorrow I will first look into eints; but I think I need a git replacement for eintssvn.py
10:38<LordAro>why 2 builds?
10:38<TrueBrain>64bit and 32bit
10:39<LordAro>ah right
10:39<LordAro>you going to bother doing a windows build at the same time?
10:39<LordAro>or just nightlies, rather than PRs?
10:40<TrueBrain>both
10:40<TrueBrain>but .. Windows via Docker is ......
10:41<LordAro>mm...
10:41<LordAro>looked at appveyor at all?
10:41<LordAro>they're the usual github windows builder
10:43<TrueBrain>I started with Bamboo ... tried Jenkins now ... Travis doesnt do Windows ..
10:43<TrueBrain>I guess I can skip on to the next fancy word :P
10:44<TrueBrain>either way, I have a Windows Docker ready which kinda worked
10:44<TrueBrain>biggest issue for Windows was our openttd-useful
10:44<TrueBrain>vspkg helped a lot
10:45<TrueBrain>but .. we are "special", so I had to fix up some stuff :P
10:45<TrueBrain>like vspkg calls it lzma.lib, we call it liblzma.lib
10:46<LordAro>sounds like the buildsystem needs tweaking :p
10:46<TrueBrain>I was more thinking OpenTTD needs tweaking
10:46<TrueBrain>maybe we should throw openttd-useful overboard, and use vspkg
10:47<LordAro>that's what i was going for
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10:47<TrueBrain>but currently I run Windows 10 Home, as that was sufficient for my needs .. but Windows Docker needs Windows 10 Pro :P
10:48<LordAro>vspkg sounds like a good idea, pkg systems are always better
10:48<TrueBrain>and the OpenTTD server is not the fastest (still runs spinning disks)
10:48<andythenorth>we have a server? :o
10:48<LordAro>or nuget or chocolatey or similar
10:48<TrueBrain>so I was hoping AWS responded, but they seem to rather ignore emails :)
10:48<andythenorth>like actual hardware? :o
10:49<TrueBrain>yes ..... since 2004 ...
10:49<andythenorth>wow
10:49<andythenorth>getting rid of physical servers was a happy day for me
10:49<TrueBrain>where else do you think stuff like the content service runs?
10:49<TrueBrain>its fully virtualized, so meh
10:49<TrueBrain>you just notice he doesnt have a lot of IOPS
10:50<TrueBrain>and the machine is getting a bit old
10:50<andythenorth>probably not worse than Rackspace public cloud
10:50<andythenorth>public cloud, the product Rackspace most obviously wish they didn't have
10:52<andythenorth>pikka how many engine liveries? o_O
10:54<Pikka>can I say one? :P Maybe a few over time... "retro", "standard", "refurbished"? or are you thinking by cargo and that sort of business?
10:55<andythenorth>I was hoping for one
10:55<Pikka>one is good
10:55<andythenorth>nice and consistent
10:55<andythenorth>I have deleted some mail car liveries
10:55<Pikka>although locos that stick around a long time might want updating, to match more modern locos that come along
10:55<andythenorth>I just replace them with 'upgraded' model on new ID
10:55<andythenorth>with black windows
10:56<andythenorth>I want a new acronym also
10:56<andythenorth>"just because we could doesn't mean we should"
10:56<andythenorth>only snappy
10:56<Pikka>tmwftlb? kiss? :P
10:56<andythenorth>YAGNI
10:56<andythenorth>Regret It Later
10:56<andythenorth>Not A Wise Idea
10:57<andythenorth>You Don't Have To Use All The Spec
10:58<Pikka>because it was there (tm)?
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11:00<andythenorth>BAD
11:00<andythenorth>Because Andy Did
11:01*andythenorth must to stop acronyms
11:09<frosch123>was BANDIT created from BAD and ANDY?
11:15<andythenorth>no
11:15<andythenorth>it's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_and_the_Bandit
11:16<andythenorth>and was reversed acronymed :P
11:16<andythenorth>I had forgotten BANDIT :P
11:16<andythenorth>@seen Wolf01
11:16<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 52 minutes and 18 seconds ago: <Wolf01> Bye
11:17<andythenorth>well who's going to redo the livery UI then? :P
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12:15<andythenorth>@calc 15*16
12:15<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 240
12:16<andythenorth>and another 10 * 16
12:16<andythenorth>not drawing 400 spriterows :P
12:16<andythenorth>automation time
12:22<Pikka>yay automaton
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12:23<Pikka>is AI automating playing the game? you can just watch it go.
12:23<andythenorth>yes
12:23<andythenorth>can it automate testing newgrf?
12:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: there is not a real way to tell people svn.openttd.org is no longer the official source, except for shutting it down, I think .. possible just move it to svn-archive.openttd.org or something
12:24<TrueBrain>the exposure is too low for anyone to pick up it changed
12:24<TrueBrain>I will see if I can insert an echo in some hook to show a banner of some kind
12:24<Pikka>it can automate testing how well it handles the newgrfs...
12:24<TrueBrain>but even that is not really visible
12:24<andythenorth>Pikka: have you automated crashing OpenTTD? o_O
12:24<TrueBrain>something to consider :)
12:25<Pikka>I haven't tried the trains with FIRS yet...
12:25<andythenorth>I crash it a lot, it's work I could automate
12:25<frosch123>TrueBrain: sounds like low priority :p
12:25<Pikka>only with "default zoom screenshot"
12:25<andythenorth>seems to hate the newgrf being changed under it :P
12:25<frosch123>andythenorth: white an ai that tests whether newgrf do unexpected capacity changes when attaching wagons or refitting :p
12:25<TrueBrain>frosch123: depending on your perspective, but ack :)
12:26<andythenorth>frosch123: I would but I have to learn docker :(
12:26<andythenorth>so I can stop using devzone bundles
12:26<andythenorth>:(
12:27<TrueBrain>or tell LordAro to do that for you andythenorth :)
12:27<andythenorth>we need more contributors :D
12:27<andythenorth>they're all playing minecraft or something
12:27<frosch123>TrueBrain: how do you invoke the CI? for every commit, for every push? are there some envvars to figure out hashes before/after?
12:27<TrueBrain>frosch123: atm, I have it on every PR that is being created
12:27<TrueBrain>and on every PR accepted
12:28<TrueBrain>atm a Docker starts with a shallow git checkout of that code
12:28<TrueBrain>what are you looking for exactly here?
12:29<frosch123>currently i have an "update" hook which gets the revision-range from a push and checks all commits for style
12:29<frosch123>not sure how to do the same via the docker-ci
12:29<frosch123>like, how to get the revision range
12:29<TrueBrain>good question honestly
12:29<TrueBrain>it is information that GitHub API sends out
12:29<TrueBrain>but not information the Jenkins plugin returns
12:30<TrueBrain>but if we assume all PRs are rebases
12:30<TrueBrain>and we can just reject any PR that is not
12:30<TrueBrain>it is easy
12:31<frosch123>should i take master..HEAD then?
12:31<TrueBrain>I guess we can make a small CI that checks: is master in tree of HEAD
12:31<TrueBrain>and abort the whole CI if it isnt
12:31<TrueBrain>after that, master..HEAD is indeed the correct way
12:32<TrueBrain>I guess that is fair too .. checking a PR that is not mergable is useless
12:33<TrueBrain>so yeah, lets say that origin/master is available, and HEAD is what-ever we want to validate
12:33<TrueBrain>and origin/master..HEAD is at least available
12:33<TrueBrain>(older history might be missing)
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12:35<TrueBrain>now time for some dinner :)
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12:40<supermop>quite bored now that i gave up on car transporter
12:40<supermop>maybe i should make some trains
12:41<frosch123>train transporter?
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12:43<andythenorth>supermop: automate them :P
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13:06<LordAro>frosch123: git rev-list origin..HEAD is a list of commits
13:06<frosch123>yes
13:06<frosch123>that was not the question :)
13:07<LordAro>fine :)
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13:17<Pikka>heyyy
13:17<Pikka>my code in UKRS which disguises the last wagon of an AI train as a brakevan still works
13:17<Pikka>there's bad features for ya
13:18<andythenorth>that is quality
13:18<andythenorth>PDYS
13:18<andythenorth>Pikka Did, You Shouldn't
13:19<Pikka>yes
13:22<LordAro>and have 22245 and 22153 different commits each, respectively.
13:22<LordAro>heh.
13:24<LordAro>https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GraftPoint interesting
13:36<peter1138>Whew, that was... a ride.
13:38<supermop>pikka, add code to disguise the brakevan of a human train as a AI wagon
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13:44<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to the idea to have different liveries for each player?
13:45<supermop>hmm for some reason my browser is closing when trying to paste a copied url into a slack channel
13:48<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: there is stuff in nml to do that
13:48<supermop>i wonder who asked for it
13:49<andythenorth>what if each player could choose a colour? o_O
13:49<supermop>afaik no one has ever used it
13:49<supermop>andythenorth: what if seinfeld was modarn
13:49<LordAro>i've not got rebase --onto to work successfully yet
13:49<LordAro>it seems to just remove commits and use the new tree
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>so what's the series of commands i should run to convert my svn checkout of trunk with the official dev branch?
13:51<andythenorth>rm -r [dir]
13:51<LordAro>svn checkout? cd .. && rm -r openttd && git clone https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD
13:51<andythenorth>git clone?
13:51<LordAro>andythenorth: ^5
13:51<andythenorth>^ yair
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14:10*LordAro used a marginally manual `git cherry-pick oldfork/<branchname>~<n>..oldfork/<branchname>` instead
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure i asked that before, but what does "yair" actually mean?
14:13<LordAro>i was taking it as some form of "yeah"
14:14<TrueBrain>so many solutions :P
14:15<LordAro>TrueBrain: i looked at the jenkins, shouldn't it be doing a full build, instead of just with the latest changes?
14:16<TrueBrain>I have no clue how to answer that question
14:16<TrueBrain>do you like apples, or instead a sunny day
14:16<TrueBrain>is what I read
14:16<LordAro>let me try again
14:16<TrueBrain>please :D
14:16<LordAro>https://farm.openttd.org/jenkins/job/OpenTTD/job/OpenTTD-Playground/job/PR-6698/23/display/redirect
14:16<LordAro>doesn't appear to have actually built ottd
14:16<LordAro>not from scratch
14:17<TrueBrain>no, PRs are not from scratch atm
14:17<TrueBrain>not sure if it matters currently
14:17<TrueBrain>only the first time a PR is built, is a clean build
14:17<LordAro>mm
14:17<TrueBrain>the next push to the same PR reuses the build state
14:17<TrueBrain>but that is by far the smallest problem I am having
14:17<LordAro>i've gotten used to our work build system, which is really rather bad at incremental builds
14:18<TrueBrain>OpenTTD's CI has been doing incrementals for years now
14:18<LordAro>fair
14:18<LordAro>what are the other problems? :D
14:18<TrueBrain>this grid stuff is pretty neat
14:18<TrueBrain>but it is near impossible to configure
14:19<TrueBrain>so it is a trade of no-configuration vs doing what I want
14:19<LordAro>the blue ocean interface?
14:19<TrueBrain>no, the project
14:19<TrueBrain>the project now shows the PRs, how it checked them, etc
14:19<TrueBrain>its a special project type
14:19<TrueBrain>with a nice view
14:20<LordAro>right
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14:23<TrueBrain>the other issue I currently have that this supports 1 executor per host at best ... because I have to volume mount to the host on a fixed path
14:23<TrueBrain>which is really really bad design
14:23<TrueBrain>guess if I could volume mount to the current docker, I had less issues
14:23<TrueBrain>hmm
14:25<Pikka>well past ->
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14:31<peter1138>Come on then, who's going to be the first to commit to the new system? :p
14:31<andythenorth>NRT merge? o_O
14:31<TrueBrain>maybe a bit more realstic? :D
14:32<peter1138>Oh no! Not the R word!
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>someone properly implement pikka's request so AI can choose to build semaphore/light signal?
14:33<peter1138>!
14:33<frosch123>someone could setup .gitattributes :p
14:33<andythenorth>NRT won't merge anyway
14:34<andythenorth>it's out of sync with trunk in a non-trivial way
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>[06.04.18 20:39] <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka (who is not here): with that the AI should now always build semaphores (untested) https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzdcid9c5
14:34<LordAro>remove all the hg/svn specific stuff from the buildsystem
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>people chan pull into a hg repo from a git repo
14:34<peter1138>Yeah but hg is madness
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>so that would be really unwise
14:37<LordAro>yeah, they can
14:37<LordAro>but why would they
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>because?
14:37<LordAro>you can also make an svn checkout from a github repo, fwiw
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>if it's possible, someone will do it
14:38<peter1138>I use cvs.
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>but anyway, why would you remove something that works and needs next to no maintenance?
14:38<TrueBrain>why would you keep it with the chance of it breaking?
14:38<LordAro>because it requires some maintenance?
14:39<TrueBrain>(still shocked OSX code is in OpenTTD :P)
14:39<frosch123>we already have a findversion
14:39<LordAro>besides, i think the version numbering stuff was changing anyway?
14:39<LordAro>for nightlies, at least
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can't really have incremental build numbers anymore
14:40<TrueBrain>sure you can
14:40<TrueBrain>git describe
14:40<TrueBrain>as long as you tag incremental
14:40<TrueBrain>that value is incremental
14:40<TrueBrain>just a shitload of conflicts with custom binaries
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but is that reproduceable with separate repos?
14:41<TrueBrain>it is
14:41<@Rubidium>and with shallow clones?
14:41<TrueBrain>hell no
14:41<LordAro>ha
14:41<TrueBrain>I never said it was a good idea btw; but just the idea that git doesnt have incremental number is not true
14:41<TrueBrain>the problem is that it is not a globally unique incremental value
14:42<LordAro>it has an incremental number, not the incremental number
14:42<TrueBrain>okay, I can now keep the volumes inside the docker .. so I can run multiple without the chance of breaking shit
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: yes, i was not questioning the existence of an incremental number, just the practicality
14:42<TrueBrain>its even very practical for nightly builds
14:42<TrueBrain>lot of companies use it for that
14:42<TrueBrain>just you need to apoint a single truth
14:42<LordAro>like github!
14:43<LordAro>what does the D in DVCS stand for, anyway?
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>dumb
14:43<frosch123>distributed
14:43<TrueBrain>more the problem is, the only reason we have the incremental number is for network/savegame conflict resolving, and a bit of (mostly unused ) GRF stuff
14:43<frosch123>hmm, was that a question? it had no emoji
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>we need a blockchain!
14:43<TrueBrain>OMG! WHO ATE THE EMOJI?!
14:44<peter1138>When are we moving to Slack?
14:44<LordAro>😋
14:44<frosch123>people are asking weird question like what does var42 bit 24 mean all the time...
14:44*andythenorth has been wondering that
14:44<andythenorth>did Slack actually win though?
14:44<frosch123>how would i notice a rhetoric question?
14:44<andythenorth>or did it win like Trello has won?
14:44<TrueBrain>race is still going
14:44<peter1138>I dunno, I've never used slack. Never intend to.
14:44<TrueBrain>Discord is gaining a lot ...
14:44<andythenorth>I haven't tried it, but I'm supposed to
14:45<TrueBrain>HipChat is nearly dead .. stupid atlassian :(
14:45<andythenorth>we are still on irc at work
14:45<TrueBrain>and of course Skype ...... if you want to be sure your conversations are backuped up in some foreign country :P
14:45<andythenorth>and if the updates work
14:45<TrueBrain>I am happy we are no longer on IRC :D
14:45<TrueBrain>I hate missing work conversations because my computer is not on
14:45<frosch123>should we run a custom webex server?
14:46<TrueBrain>YES! CUSTOM! CUSTOM! I WANT CUSTOM STUFF!
14:46<TrueBrain>waittttttttttt
14:46<frosch123>maybe andy should twitch-stream grf making
14:46<andythenorth>TrueBrain: missing those conversations sounds ideal tbh
14:46<TrueBrain>not if they are work related .. and not the bullshit channels
14:46<LordAro>that seems like what email is for
14:46<andythenorth>the idea of FOMO about work gives me ugh
14:46<TrueBrain>the ones where people make choices :)
14:46<peter1138>Yeah, at work we use email.
14:46<andythenorth>ugh
14:46<andythenorth>if it's not on a ticket it didn't happen
14:46<LordAro>Teams is best chat
14:47<LordAro>clearly
14:47<andythenorth>unless you phoned me
14:47<TrueBrain>email ... havent used email for anything useful in months
14:47<peter1138>heh
14:47<andythenorth>email is for password resets
14:47<andythenorth>that is all
14:47<TrueBrain>yeah, and invite to parties
14:47<frosch123>sounds useful then :p
14:47<peter1138>Ooh when's the party?
14:47<frosch123>tomorrow, your house
14:47<peter1138>Ok
14:47<TrueBrain>in my pants? RIGHT NOW
14:47<TrueBrain>sorry frosch123, I took a different turn there :P
14:52<LordAro>has anyone thought about minimum compiler versions yet?
14:52<frosch123>yes
14:53<TrueBrain>12
14:53<LordAro>src/language.h:108:8: error: ‘Collator’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘UCollator’?
14:53<LordAro>well that's new
14:54-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@78.96.209.89] has quit []
14:55<frosch123>anything that supports c++14
14:57<LordAro>that appears to be gcc5, clang3.4
14:57<LordAro>and msvc... as new as you can get
14:58<LordAro>oh, and icc17 :p
14:59<TrueBrain>does OpenTTD support clang? :D
14:59<LordAro>of course
14:59<LordAro>i have to fix warnings occasionally :p
14:59<TrueBrain>hmmm .. guess that should be added to the CI too :)
14:59<TrueBrain>currently it can only do GCC
15:00<TrueBrain>maybe even different dockers .. would make it easier
15:00<TrueBrain>now it iscalled linux-amd64
15:00<TrueBrain>linux-amd64-gcc, linux-clang-gcc?
15:00<TrueBrain>I expect a patch LordAro: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD-CF
15:00<TrueBrain>make yourself useful! :P
15:00<LordAro>aah
15:00<frosch123>linux-clang-os9x-minmsvc?
15:01<LordAro>oh no
15:01<peter1138>:S
15:01<LordAro>linux-amd64-gcc<n>
15:01<TrueBrain>sounds good to me LordAro
15:02<peter1138>cyrix
15:05<andythenorth>all train roofs are ~same
15:06<andythenorth>let's draw them once, not 720 times
15:06<peter1138>When do we get VR support?
15:07<TrueBrain>once you submit that patch of yours
15:07<peter1138>:D
15:07<TrueBrain>owh, wait, it was on the SSD you lost, right? :P
15:07<peter1138>That's right.
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15:15<TrueBrain>hmm, with this new requirement OpenTTD-CF needs a bit of love :D
15:15<TrueBrain>I can also remove the docker hub autobuild script shit
15:17<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7253 <- anyone able to edit orudge's post?
15:17<frosch123>http://bugs.openttd.org -> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues
15:18<TrueBrain>done
15:18<LordAro>i'd imagine orudge can :p
15:18<peter1138>Apparently I can, when I am logged in.
15:19<frosch123>any other weird stickies?
15:19<frosch123>TrueBrain: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32194 even more :)
15:20<+glx>there's also the option to add an URL rewrite
15:20<frosch123>who even notices announcements?
15:20-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
15:20<TrueBrain>frosch123: done
15:21<TrueBrain>also: first PR!
15:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: also the thread title :)
15:21<TrueBrain>done
15:22<TrueBrain>that was quick glx :P
15:22<+glx>hehe
15:22<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=62735 <- probably just remove the stickyness
15:22<TrueBrain>this time it is for real :D
15:22<LordAro>\o/
15:22<TrueBrain>sticky removed
15:23<TrueBrain>just as a general FYI (A PSA!): in Jenkinsfile you can add which CIs it should run
15:23<TrueBrain>they run in parallel .. so dont go overboard .. maybe multiple stages are in order
15:23<TrueBrain>they have to be PUBLIC docker files .. but soon I will make OpenTTD-CF auto-compile and publish :)
15:23<LordAro>how are PRs merged?
15:24<+glx>by pushing a button
15:24<TrueBrain>:D Ty glx :D
15:24<TrueBrain>and FF only
15:24<peter1138>firefox? yay
15:27<frosch123>oi, this jenkins indeed looks way different than those i know
15:28<TrueBrain>click Blue Ocean :)
15:28<TrueBrain>ITS SO PRETTY
15:29<TrueBrain>any problem if I merge this?
15:29<frosch123>looks fine
15:29<TrueBrain>FIRST
15:29<TrueBrain>I did get the comment message right btw, not?
15:29<frosch123>yes, i checked that :)
15:30<TrueBrain>:D
15:30<frosch123>only thing i knew about
15:30<TrueBrain>okay, now I pushed it also validates that what I pushed is still valid
15:30<TrueBrain>nice
15:30<peter1138>You committed it 14 days ago, woo
15:31<TrueBrain>owh .. yeah ... :D
15:31<TrueBrain>that were a lot of ammends :D
15:31<TrueBrain>ammmmeeenndddddssss
15:31<TrueBrain>funny that it picks that date
15:32<TrueBrain>that is going to happen a lot btw
15:32<TrueBrain>especially because we are not doing merge commits
15:32<TrueBrain>(you also now dont see which PR caused this commit)
15:32<TrueBrain>owh, you do if you click it
15:33<TrueBrain>it is either this or a merge commit for every PR ..
15:35<LordAro>merge commit for every pr isn't the worst thing in the world
15:35<TrueBrain>just unneeded text :)
15:35<LordAro>commits are cheap now :p
15:35<TrueBrain>looking at other projects .. not many do merge commits
15:35<TrueBrain>but a lot also use bots to condense pushes
15:35<peter1138>No, I'm charging 50p per commit.
15:35<frosch123>hmm, where does it show the pr?
15:36<frosch123>also why is that important?
15:36<TrueBrain>click the commit
15:36<TrueBrain>says master (#number)
15:36<TrueBrain>always nice to jump back to the conversation leading up to the commit
15:36<peter1138>Vaguely. It's the number, but doesn't actually say that that is a PR.
15:36<frosch123>we could ammed the commit message?
15:36-!-muffindrake2 [~muffindra@p200300864E143E007C4ED1C07BBB388C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: muffindrake2]
15:37<TrueBrain>you dont know the PR till you made the PR
15:37<frosch123>yeah, a bit chicken/egg
15:38<TrueBrain>but like I said, I only care about that number if I want to know what leads up to that commit
15:38<TrueBrain>and the information is there
15:38<peter1138>Woo, installed Blue Coean.
15:38<peter1138>And Blue Ocean.
15:38<peter1138>Separate link, weird :p
15:38<TrueBrain>I am looking at CPython .. they make a PR without the number in the commit message
15:38<TrueBrain>but when they merge, it is there
15:39<frosch123>it is on github, but not in the repository
15:42<TrueBrain>CPython does this .. but how .. hmm
15:42<TrueBrain>nowhere in the PR is the PR number
15:42<TrueBrain>but as soon as they merge
15:42<TrueBrain>it is there
15:42<frosch123>a bot adds it to all
15:42<frosch123>https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/6412/commits <- it's on every commit
15:43<TrueBrain>yes, but how .. as the author merges
15:43<TrueBrain>so when does the bot do this
15:44<frosch123>it looks like people add "CLA signed" label
15:44<frosch123>and then some bot does the merge
15:45<frosch123>https://github.com/python/bedevere
15:45<TrueBrain>yeah, was just looing in the source
15:46<TrueBrain>basically, they work around GitHub :D
15:47<TrueBrain>they switched to GH-
15:47<TrueBrain>their bot even reminds peopple about it :D
15:49<frosch123>probably because they need to distinguish from https://bugs.python.org/issue33201
15:49<TrueBrain>CLA is the permission thingy
15:51<TrueBrain>they really have a few bots :D
15:52<frosch123>so, should the ci amend all commit messages and merge after succesful CI?
15:54<TrueBrain>still havent found where it happens
15:55<TrueBrain>so many "fun" things in their code :P
15:55<TrueBrain>randomizers and everything
15:57<LordAro>frosch123: seems like a bad idea, imo
15:57<LordAro>you also get commits signed by gpg keys, i'd imagine this would break such things
15:58<TrueBrain>yet other big projects do this
16:00<TrueBrain>ah
16:00<TrueBrain>squashing
16:00<TrueBrain>ofc
16:00<TrueBrain>and when you squash, it asks for the commit message
16:01<TrueBrain>so that is just a matter of telling all devs to do that :D
16:03<frosch123>ow, i misjudged
16:03<frosch123>the "CLA signed" label is actually from a bot
16:03<TrueBrain>yes
16:04<TrueBrain>to indicate the person has signed the license agreement
16:04<TrueBrain>all their bots have a theme :P
16:04<frosch123>all by brian
16:07<TrueBrain>yes, it is part of their squashing
16:07<peter1138>contributor license agreement?
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16:07<TrueBrain>it seems that if you squash, by default it adds the (#123)
16:08<frosch123>squashing is weird to me
16:08<TrueBrain>that kinda forces small contributions :)
16:08<frosch123>why would you do that?
16:08<TrueBrain>it is really really useful tbh
16:08<TrueBrain>it is like: I make 2 commits that are one thing
16:08<TrueBrain>now I see a mistake
16:08<TrueBrain>and I make a new commit
16:08<TrueBrain>so you can see what I changed, as reviewer
16:08<TrueBrain>you give comments
16:08<TrueBrain>I make a commit to fix it
16:08<TrueBrain>etc
16:08<TrueBrain>then when we all agree it is perfect
16:08<TrueBrain>squash, and done
16:09<TrueBrain>amending is a bit evil
16:09<TrueBrain>gerrit is one of the only systems I know that can display diffs of amends
16:09<TrueBrain>(but gerrit is special :P)
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16:15<TrueBrain>frosch123: the current method requires force pushes btw, which in general is also not that awsome to use in git :)
16:15<TrueBrain>but you can just look over time what you like best
16:16<TrueBrain>well, if you want the PR number in the commit message, I currently dont have a solution for the rebase tactic
16:16<TrueBrain>as a bot cannot change the commit message in the PR, and I cannot find a hook that runs during the merge
16:19<TrueBrain>well, happy with the result so far :)
16:21<Thedarkb>How do I kick a player from the console?
16:21<TrueBrain>with a bat, I imagine
16:21<frosch123>listclients or something
16:21<frosch123>then kick with the number
16:21<TrueBrain>that doesnt hurt a physical person
16:22<andythenorth>multiplayer :
16:22<Thedarkb>I typed "rcon <password> kick <clientid>"
16:22<Thedarkb>and that won't work
16:22<andythenorth>specifically, public multiplayer :P
16:22<andythenorth>that would only seem like a good idea to people who haven't met people
16:23<Thedarkb>I'm playing in a semi public multiplayer
16:23<TrueBrain>that sounds very .. dubious ..
16:23<TrueBrain>only people who are N high?
16:23<andythenorth>my kids keep trying to play public MP games
16:23<Thedarkb>semi public = It's a server dedicated to a Discord I'm in.
16:23<TrueBrain>only people who's IP ends with a 1?
16:24<andythenorth>lots of MP casual games are predator's dream playground
16:24-!-synchris_ [~synchris@139.138.202.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24<andythenorth>no filters, no checks
16:24<andythenorth>unrestricted DMs
16:24<TrueBrain>Dungeon Masters?
16:25<andythenorth>direct messages
16:25<TrueBrain>only twitter uses those :P
16:25<andythenorth>and some casual games
16:25<TrueBrain>I like how they are not calling it "private messages"
16:25<Thedarkb>I used to play Quake when I was a kid and nobody predated on me.
16:25<TrueBrain>I mean.. makes you wonder .. why direct, and not private ..
16:25<TrueBrain>are they not .. private? *tinfoilhat*
16:25<andythenorth>omg
16:25<andythenorth>they're not private????? :o
16:25<TrueBrain>that is the suggestion I take away from that :D
16:26<andythenorth>you mean the platform might be data minging them?
16:26<TrueBrain>I am sure enough privates go over direct messaging
16:26<TrueBrain>but that is another issue
16:26<andythenorth>anyway I keep banning my kids from games
16:26<andythenorth>but it's a losing battle
16:26<TrueBrain>better teach them to understand what is going on ;)
16:27<andythenorth>that's what I figured
16:27<TrueBrain>so it is time for "THE TALK"
16:27<Thedarkb>^^^
16:27<andythenorth>talk happened multiple times
16:27<andythenorth>but then they go play games where other player nicks are 'fuck off' or 'big cock'
16:27<Thedarkb>Lol
16:27<Thedarkb>So they're playing with other kids then.
16:27<andythenorth>likely
16:28<andythenorth>I quit playing world of tanks due to the DMs
16:28*andythenorth back to drawing
16:32<peter1138>Does rcon still need extra quotes?
16:33<TrueBrain>frosch123: #123 or GH-123 ?
16:33<frosch123>#123
16:34<Thedarkb>I get "usage kick:<ip | client-id>"
16:34<frosch123>rcon <pw> "kick id"
16:36<ST2>https://www.dropbox.com/s/8m2o33cm6481ba1/Screenshot%202018-04-07%2021.36.28.png?dl=0
16:36<ST2>always look better on buttons xD
16:36<TrueBrain>frosch123: #6649 is a nice example what is very nice to have different commits for review, but squashing would be a lot better once accepted
16:47<TrueBrain>right; time for some well deserved sleep :) Good night!
16:50<andythenorth>also
16:50<andythenorth>bye
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17:01<supermop>i wonder if i can get some japanese construction worker coveralls sent here
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17:11<supermop>apparently i never had a 1.7.x version installed
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17:14<supermop>hmmm no steeltown servers
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18:29<HeyCitizen>does anyone know how I can get refit at station working with 2cc trainset?
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19:00<LordAro>ooh, i could make a pull request
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21:19<supermop>yo pikka
21:28<Pikka>yoyo supermop
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21:28<supermop>playing the game and not even testing RVs for once
21:31<Pikka>o/
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 08 00:00:20 2018