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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-11

---Logopened Wed Apr 11 00:00:25 2018
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02:35<andythenorth>lo bird
03:02<Pikka>notepad++ just ate my entire nfo file
03:06<andythenorth>sometimes my computer just loses entire files
03:06<andythenorth>it's awesome
03:07<Pikka>I have a week-old backup, hooray
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03:07<Pikka>so I didn't lose everything. Just a lot.
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03:09<peter1138>TrueBrain, I'm using a locally hosted gitea (private business git repo) with jenkins, and this page is my issue:
03:10<peter1138>TrueBrain, I really love the documentation link on there as well.
03:11<andythenorth>pikka VCS :(
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05:13<andythenorth>18 vehicles complete
05:13<andythenorth>just 174 left to go
05:14<andythenorth>Pikka: I copied your approach to box cars
05:14<andythenorth>no cargo
05:16<andythenorth>maybe it's time to figure out a style for narrow gauge
05:16<andythenorth>height, width
05:16<andythenorth>chassis colours
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's tricky, because some narrow gauge railways had very small cars, and other times, it carried regular cars on new wheels
05:19<andythenorth>as long as it looks 'smaller' it's ok
05:23<Pikka>when does narrow gauge meet freight trams coming the other way?
05:24<andythenorth>then NRT adds industrial tiny trains (like small ones in HEQS)
05:25<andythenorth>brit Horse narrow gauge is pretty sparse
05:25<andythenorth>it was more interesting in the africa roster I had
05:25<andythenorth>capacity-per-unit-length is lower, so very very long trains
05:25<andythenorth>makes a different play style
05:26<andythenorth>(narrow gauge was main type in africa roster)
05:26<Pikka>very QLD also
05:27<andythenorth>I might pineapple
05:27<andythenorth>one day
05:27<andythenorth>I was going to australia economy, but I'm not sure it's a good gameplay choice
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>well, what i was trying to say: carrying regular wagons would make it technically a tiny bit larger, due to the extra wheels
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05:33<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that would go better if we allowed loading vehicles in vehicles
05:33<andythenorth>peter1138 has a patch for that ;)
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>why wouldn't he
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05:47<peter1138>Probably, What?
05:47<peter1138>No I don't.
05:47<peter1138>I never got as far as that.
05:48<peter1138>I think I'd like to revamp multiple docks again.
05:49<peter1138>Seems that was actually on my dead drive ;(
05:49<LordAro>take a look at whichever patchpack implements it?
05:49<peter1138>I did that once, I didn't like it :p
05:50<peter1138>Damn it, my scales didn't upload this morning :(
05:51<peter1138>And it was 1lb down.
05:54<andythenorth>I haven't tried the multi-docks patch
05:56<andythenorth>not sure which patch is most current
05:59<peter1138>Yeah... these random patches in random threads...
06:00<peter1138>This is why the move to github is good.
06:01<andythenorth>multi docks, flat docks, one tile docks, newgrf docks :P
06:01<peter1138>I hadn't logged into tt-forums for so longer that I hadn't twigged my username had been changed back. A year ago.
06:02<peter1138>I'll ignore the formerly known as bit as I am now ;p
06:20<andythenorth>"lost in music"
06:26<peter1138>I don't remember what my signature referenced
06:32<andythenorth>me neither
06:32<andythenorth>might change my location
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06:36<Eddi|zuHause>i need to change my email in a hundred locations, because my old university one finally got deactivated
06:39-!-Netsplit <-> quits: yorick_, berndj, @orudge, TheIJ, KouDy, UncleCJ, OsteHovel, jonty-comp, @Rubidium, Sacro, (+12 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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06:47<andythenorth>time to switch to Slack? o-O
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07:52<Eddi|zuHause>i thought discord?
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08:08<andythenorth> did it win yet?
08:08<andythenorth>current horse race seems to be Slack, Discord and Whatsapp
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>whatsapp is for phones only?
08:12<andythenorth>I haven't gone exploring
08:12<andythenorth>it's mostly a non-problem
08:12<andythenorth>I have irc, SMS, phone
08:15-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.8.0 | | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy
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08:24<SpComb>gotta keep the barrier for entry high enough
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10:25<Pikka>well well well
10:27<andythenorth>will I have horse done before Trump and Putin get into a shooting war?
10:30<Pikka>almost certainly
10:31<Pikka>andythenorth, what carriage variations?
10:32<andythenorth>in Horse?
10:33<andythenorth>coach, restaurant car, brake coach, brake coach turned around the other way
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10:49<peter1138>Strange, I've got an old stash that "git show stash xxx" shows lots of lines added/removed
10:50<peter1138>Oh well, deleted it now.
10:52<LordAro>probably not important
10:57<andythenorth>comments can never break a compile, right? o_O
10:59<+glx>they can
11:00<+glx>if you don't close a block comment
11:01<andythenorth>they can
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11:01<andythenorth>I should compile before pushing :P
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11:03<@Alberth>sounds like a good advice :)
11:03<andythenorth>26 vehicles done, 166 not done
11:03<andythenorth>@calc 26 / (166+26)
11:03<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.135416666667
11:08<@Alberth>better not compute such numbers, it's depressing
11:13<supermop_work>can someone modify dorpsgek to refuse to do such math>
11:15<andythenorth>the next 21 are pretty easy
11:17<andythenorth>@calc 57 / (166 + 26)
11:17<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.296875
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11:22<supermop_work>Pikka: the two legged train networks feel a bit odd to me
11:23<supermop_work>if only the drop off terminal is shared, does it need to be a signalled network, instead of just two lines of single engine in steam?
11:23<supermop_work>i get that holding an ai to the standard or 'does it make pretty rails' is tough
11:24<Pikka>I thought it was kind of neat. plus they get to share the depot. And the PBS blocking means they squish far fewer RVs. ;)
11:24<Pikka>but sure, once you realise that the AI always builds exactly the same thing... it's a bit of a one-trick pony. :P
11:24<andythenorth>a two-leg pony
11:25*andythenorth tempted to AI
11:25<andythenorth>but no
11:26<supermop_work>i just mean that for a few of them, the track runs close to parallel for the last 20-ish tiles
11:27<supermop_work>and an earlier junction might make for easier squeezing the tracks among other stuff
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11:27<Pikka>it would, but it be a lot of work, and need reconfiguring a lot of what it currently does
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11:29<Pikka>with a more complex track network it would be harder to avoid jams, and harder to cleam up partially abandoned tracks
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11:30<supermop_work>now i am interested in making an ai
11:30<Pikka>it's fun
11:30<Pikka>you should
11:30<supermop_work>nfc where to start
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11:33<Pikka> <- there, roughly
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11:53<supermop_work>also last night noticed a supply depot with the north corner of the road loop touching the inter-town road network,
11:53<supermop_work>it was full-loading trucks for 3 towns there but the ones loading had no cargo being allocated
11:54<supermop_work>the tailback then stretched onto the road all the way into the next city, blocking other buses and trucks
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12:49<TrueBrain>nice patch LordAro :D Happy the CI is now reporting less stuff :)
12:58<LordAro>there's still a couple of warnings with newer compilers, but not with these versions it would seem :)
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13:00<Wolf01>Holy steam, why do you do this to me?
13:00<@Alberth>it's holy?
13:00<Wolf01>Ok, that now the money pump started to work again, but heh
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13:01<Wolf01>But I have some lego to purchase... *wallet ducks*
13:03<@Alberth>I got a complaint from your cabinet, it doesn't like all these boxes
13:04<Wolf01>Then you got a complaint from my bedroom, my cabinet holds food, papers and brooms :P
13:04<@Alberth>hmm, wrong note then :p
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13:38<supermop_work>Wolf01: at the lego store yesterday they had a little set of a minifig with a shelf of tiny mini fig scale mini figs
13:38<Wolf01>Got it :P
13:38<supermop_work>well bigger than that, but about 7mm tall
13:40<Wolf01> you mean this?
13:56<peter1138>Oh nice.
13:59<TrueBrain>wow, fast reviews @ OpenTTD ... patches being approved before the CI finishes :o
14:00<frosch123>i need to adjust the commit hooks
14:00<frosch123>it rejects my stuff :p
14:00<frosch123>apparently the '#' comments in the commit message are also checked and considered invalid
14:01<frosch123>also and Makefile contain some tabs to separate fields
14:01<frosch123>i now replaced them with \t, but i am not sure how much of that is bashism
14:02<peter1138>I got my Jenkinsfile stuff going.
14:03<andythenorth>do I need to write any kind of announcements then?
14:03<andythenorth>this is as far as I got
14:03<peter1138>No, it's too late now ;p
14:03<andythenorth>forums seem to have covered it
14:03<peter1138>But yeah, might as well.
14:05<TrueBrain>andythenorth: seems worth it!
14:05<TrueBrain>I left you a comment on it yesterday
14:05<andythenorth>I saw :)
14:06<TrueBrain>and I would prioritize the benefit of GitHub over things like infrastructure and maintaince of it
14:07<TrueBrain>you know the type :)
14:07<@Rubidium>yup... it's me!
14:07<TrueBrain>yes, it was Rubidium I was refering to. He has absolutely no clue what so ever :P
14:08<@Rubidium>although my server has at least 6 unique visitors a month
14:08<andythenorth>I had a server once
14:08<andythenorth>actually I didn't
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14:09<TrueBrain>and we reach 20k unique visitors ... and 0.5 milion hits a month .. but that is excluding ingame content :P
14:09<TrueBrain>ingame content pushes as much requests per WEEK as de rest does per MONTH
14:10<andythenorth>ok, infra is trying to sell a negative, github is trying to sell a positive
14:11<andythenorth>I just don't want fifty million patch review requests, and then whining :)
14:11<andythenorth>this is *not* the reason daylength isn't in trunk
14:11<andythenorth>daylength is not in trunk because daylength is utterly flawed concept
14:12<andythenorth>I still get the bullshit FIRS support posts that turn out to be daylength related
14:12<TrueBrain>frosch123: why not a 'git describe', instead of almost git-describe, without the 'commits since last tag'? :)
14:12<TrueBrain>so <commitdate>-`git describe`?
14:13<TrueBrain>owh, and we have no tag in master it seems :D
14:13<TrueBrain>(tags are in the release branches :)
14:14<peter1138>TrueBrain, I was trying to counteract the "Github is a single point of failure" point. I guess I didn't :p
14:14<frosch123>TrueBrain: what is use use of git describe? i can make use of a date and of a (short) hash
14:14<andythenorth>dvcs innit
14:14<peter1138>And now I'm buggering off up to the woods on my bicycle
14:15<TrueBrain>frosch123: more like others? But I was mainly asking if you were aware you were very close to git describe there :)
14:15<supermop_work>Wolf01: yes
14:17<frosch123>OpenTTD-Deprecated-New-17-g8e4d9f199f <- 17 revisions after new repo :p
14:17<frosch123>(OpenTTD-Deprecated-New is my tag on new revision matching the last old revision)
14:17<LANJesus>why the hell did you guys do this to the old repo again?
14:18<frosch123>LANJesus: check the log from 3 week ago
14:18<LANJesus>to quote my three year old "i can't!"
14:18<LANJesus>was i here three weeks ago?
14:18<LANJesus>also i don't log.
14:19<TrueBrain>frosch123: owh, I see now, the tag is not there if it isn't on the release branch .. gotcha
14:19<TrueBrain>its the branch .. not the tag :D
14:19<TrueBrain>*learns to read*
14:20<TrueBrain>I wonder how this will go with the first release, but we will find that out when it gets there :D
14:21<frosch123>luckily we do not have a fixed date next time :p
14:22<@Alberth>LANJesus: @logs
14:23<frosch123>TrueBrain: it's nice that dorpsgek fills in while translators are not committing :)
14:24<TrueBrain>sorry about the single reviews ... I keep thinking: I wont have any more comments
14:24<TrueBrain>I shouldnt do that :P
14:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: from a git perspective, it is very weird that a single commit contains 2 commits
14:25<TrueBrain>especially as the second line in a commit message won't ever really be shown
14:25<TrueBrain>so I would expect it like: remove REVISION from newgrf in 1 commit, then the next commit the rest of your stuff
14:27<LANJesus>ah neat
14:32<TrueBrain>new goal of the year: learn NML
14:32<debdog>Never Mind Language?
14:32<andythenorth>TrueBrain: like it you will not
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14:34<TrueBrain>I also wonder how difficult it is to change the configure system by cmake
14:34<LordAro>TrueBrain: funny, i was wondering about autoconf earlier :p
14:35<TrueBrain>go wash your mouth
14:35<TrueBrain>wtf is wrong with you
14:35<LordAro>cmake is nice, but its generated makefiles depend on cmake
14:35<TrueBrain>hmm .. I compile something via the Linux Subsystem on Windows
14:35<TrueBrain>with the mingw64
14:35<TrueBrain>but .. seems it doesnt provide a valid binary :D
14:36<LANJesus>why auto import from svn? was there metadata that was needed which wasn't available in the tracking repo?
14:37<LordAro>^ i know it's been said in bits before, but it'd be good to have it in a single place
14:38<LANJesus>TrueBrain: i ran the linux binary in WSL to workaround the mouse bug.. i did not have a good time : (
14:38*andythenorth considers pasting a 10MB example NML file for TB
14:38<Wolf01>I would like to change dns, anyone tried
14:38<andythenorth>but I think pastebin would crash
14:38<LANJesus>Wolf01: isn't that in asia?
14:38<LANJesus>or is it multihomed?
14:39<LANJesus>oh multihomed it is
14:39<Wolf01>It's cloudflare
14:39<TrueBrain>its an AnyCast IP
14:39<LANJesus>yup yup. all good
14:39<LANJesus>there's also right?
14:40<LANJesus>seems so.
14:40<LANJesus>same rDNS : D
14:41<TrueBrain>okay, kinda surprised that you cannot start Windows binaries from the subsystem .. but I guess it makes sense
14:42<TrueBrain>zlib: not found
14:42<TrueBrain>missing header: zlib.h
14:42<TrueBrain>.. wuth?!
14:43<TrueBrain>guess it is not common that people try to compile without :)
14:43<Wolf01>You can't use wine on wsl?
14:43<TrueBrain>inception inside inception :D
14:44<Wolf01>I installed vcxsrv so I can run UI programs too, specially OTTD :P
14:44<TrueBrain>cool, I can run a dedicated server in WSL :)
14:45<Wolf01>I tried to play in text mode, but nah... I miss buttons everytime
14:45<LANJesus>TrueBrain: you need to put .exe on the end
14:48<TrueBrain>hmm, I forgot OpenTTD still confuses host/build/target
14:48<TrueBrain>always has been a bitch to get cross-compiling anywhere near sane
14:49<TrueBrain>what is up with zlib ... I explicitly say: --without-zlib
14:49<TrueBrain>owh, png
14:49<TrueBrain>stupid png
14:53<TrueBrain>they claim running .exe files should work in WSL ......... so much claiming :D
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14:54<Wolf01>Ehm.. they do
14:55<TrueBrain>yeah ... one thing they failed to mention in their blog ..
14:55<Wolf01>./program.exe runs fine
14:55<TrueBrain>it has to be on a mount that is reachable
14:55<TrueBrain>so not in the home folder of the WSL
14:55<TrueBrain>but in /mnt/c
14:55<Wolf01>I put links to everywhere to avoid cd to long paths
14:56<Wolf01>So I don't really care :D
14:56<TrueBrain>I really dislike the permissions on the windows NTFS
14:56<TrueBrain>but symlinking .. does that work? :D
14:56<TrueBrain>awh, same error .. BOOOEEEEE
14:57<Wolf01>"drwxrwxrwx 0 root root"
14:57<LANJesus>don't try to interact with lxss/wsl paths from win32
14:57<LANJesus>you WILL have a bad time
14:57<LANJesus>compile in WSL from an NTFS location
14:57<Wolf01>That's why I made them FROM wsl
14:57<LANJesus>eg /mnt/c/your/favorite/location/trunk
14:58<LANJesus>then you can just ./openttd.exe no problem
14:58<LANJesus>also realize that WSL I/O is still crap
14:58<LANJesus>i'm not sure if it's better from the virtual filesystem or on NTFS
14:59<TrueBrain>haha, I really confused the configuration system now :D Sweet :)
14:59<TrueBrain>(linux FHS with Windows Binary :D)
15:00<+glx><TrueBrain> but symlinking .. does that work? :D <-- it's called junction, and it needs an external exe to create them
15:00<TrueBrain>glx: I really meant a symlink in WSL
15:00<TrueBrain>and it surprisingly "just worked"
15:00<TrueBrain>symlink from an NTFS volume to an ext4 volume :)
15:00<TrueBrain>not ext4 .. lxfs
15:00<TrueBrain>it worked :P
15:01<Wolf01>ln /path/to/destination/ mydest... or the other way around, I always have to see the synopsis
15:02<TrueBrain>okay .. with a bit of fiddle, it works :D
15:02<TrueBrain>mingw64 got a long way
15:04<TrueBrain>lol, even symlinked it works .. as long as it is on the /mnt/c :) Funny :)
15:06<+glx>hmm I think I have to review something
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15:08<LANJesus>TrueBrain: congrats
15:09<LANJesus>are you comparing the gcc built to the msvc build or something?
15:09<LANJesus>i can't spell, and i can't not spell consistently. whew.
15:09<TrueBrain>nope; just fiddling
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15:10<LordAro>TrueBrain: did you think any further about emailing people with flyspray reports?
15:10<TrueBrain>nobody reacted in any shape or form on it
15:10<TrueBrain>guess nobody cares enough :P
15:10<LordAro>consider this a positive reaction
15:10<TrueBrain>I am mostly wondering how far back you go :)
15:10<LordAro>at least to patches
15:10<LordAro>also that
15:11<TrueBrain>I mean .. 1 month? 1 year? All?
15:11<LordAro>probably a year?
15:11<LordAro>maybe 2
15:14<TrueBrain>today I am just looking at bugs/patches, and marking stuff good-first-patches
15:16<+glx>pff determineversion.vbs diff is unreadable ;)
15:17<+glx>no the diff is worse (see PR6702)
15:18<+glx>I guess I'll need to run it
15:19<LordAro>mm, not great
15:19<LordAro>github does have a sidebyside diff view, from memory
15:19<TrueBrain>it also has it from disk
15:20<+glx>ha yes split mode
15:20<+glx>but doesn't help more
15:22<@Rubidium>glx: doesn't it have some feature like 'ignore spaces in diff'?
15:22<+glx>there are many indentation changes as some if were removed
15:23<@Rubidium>glx: yes, but the tools I work with at work have that function
15:23<frosch123>"?w=1" ignores indentation changes
15:24<frosch123>also no idea how to fix the commit_msg hook
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15:25<frosch123>git has like 20 methods to remove stuff from the commit message after it was edited, and the hook gets it before it does that :/
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15:28<__ln__>everyone, here's a fine example what your pull request could look like when you submit one to TrueBrain:
15:30<+glx>I would close it immediatly too
15:31<andythenorth>I would approve it :P
15:31<+glx>and that's why you don't have any rights ;)
15:32<andythenorth>so can GS (squirrel) fetch JSON into OpenTTD from a webservice?
15:32<LordAro>i hope not
15:32<+glx>I think we decided to not do that
15:33<andythenorth>probably bet
15:33<andythenorth>best *
15:33<TrueBrain>something something sandbox
15:33<TrueBrain>no, Discord
15:33<TrueBrain>the only way I can see that work, is if there is a whitelist of URLs :)
15:33*andythenorth thinking about GS industry again
15:33<andythenorth>and problem is that there is no way for GS to understand the newgrf
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15:34<andythenorth>not sure how a JSON web-service solves that :P
15:34<andythenorth>I got side-tracked by how we could teach GS about specific newgrfs
15:36<TrueBrain>I still think about currencies :D
15:39<TrueBrain>okay, NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES is weird
15:39<TrueBrain>well, debug_desync_level is weird
15:39<TrueBrain>either one :P
15:40<+glx>hmm I think my mingw setup is outdated
15:40<LordAro>someone should redo the mingw tutorial for msys2
15:41<LordAro>it's quite out of date at this point
15:41<+glx>oh or someone did weird thing in config.lib recently ;)
15:42<LordAro>it shouldn't have broken anything...
15:42<+glx>realpath is not found
15:42<LordAro>does mingw not have realpath or- oh.
15:42<TrueBrain>wuth?! :D
15:42<@Rubidium>andythenorth: as the Germans would say: jein ;) Via the admin port you can send and receive JSON
15:43<andythenorth>it's not essential, a GS could ship with data baked in about newgrfs
15:43<andythenorth>just seems a bit anti-maintenance
15:44<LordAro>glx: even a lack of a no-op thing is surprising
15:44<LordAro>ah well
15:44<TrueBrain>andythenorth: show a use-case where it is useful to do it, and we can talk about it :)
15:44<+glx>and I'm just basically trying a simple clone
15:44<+glx>with no modification
15:45<andythenorth>yair I have nothing right now
15:45<TrueBrain>andythenorth: as there might be more than one way to get where you want to go :)
15:45<andythenorth>get JSON from bananas :P
15:45<andythenorth>not even sure it's JSON that's needed
15:46<TrueBrain>you have a goal in mind
15:46<andythenorth>what was the problem again? o_O
15:46<TrueBrain>that is more important than the technical solution
15:46<LordAro>glx: replacing the config.lib line with compiler=$1 should do the trick temporarily
15:46<LordAro>i guess a proper fix needs an if
15:47<LordAro>is there a "proper" way to mention hashes in commit messages?
15:48<+glx>yes just type the hash
15:48<+glx>github will do the link
15:48<LordAro>i know the github way, but is there an openttd way? :p
15:49<+glx>somehow -Fix (hash): blah
15:50<frosch123>LordAro: glx:
15:50<frosch123>"Fix hash: blah"
15:51<frosch123>what would have been the github way? :p
15:51<+glx>hey I was close
15:52<TrueBrain>do we want the GitHub notifications in this channel?
15:52<+glx>we used to have (rXXX) and not rXXX ;)
15:52<+glx>no it's ok in .notice
15:52<TrueBrain>I keep forgetting to join that channel
15:53<TrueBrain>owh, the +n was the issue
15:53<andythenorth>is dorpsgek updated for commits o_O
15:54<+glx>hmm who removed +m in notice ?
15:54<TrueBrain>it is required for the notice to work
15:54<TrueBrain>so I did
15:54<TrueBrain>the longer I look at this, the more likely it is we need our own bot to talk to GitHub :P
15:54<TrueBrain>but that is something for a rainy day
15:54<+glx>let's hope the topic will be enough ;)
15:54<TrueBrain>banning is cheap
15:55<LordAro>TrueBrain: i'd like it in this channel, fwiw
15:56<TrueBrain>make a GitHub bot :D
15:56<LordAro>probably just merge to master notifications though (i've not looked at what it's doing currently)
15:56<LordAro>TrueBrain: make a supybot plugin!
15:56<TrueBrain>I am making amazing patches
15:56<Wolf01>Make a Bjarni bot with github support?
15:57<TrueBrain>like not running Perf constantly if you dont care about the result ..
15:57<frosch123>i made another PR for the hooks
15:58<frosch123>though updating the server is not that important this time
15:58<frosch123>it's more a client-side annoyance
16:00<frosch123>LordAro: train samu to repost everything from .notice in this channel
16:00<TrueBrain>it shows the 2 files annoyingly
16:01<LordAro>frosch123: lol
16:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: PR fine by me; minor Python knowledge-thingy, but meh :)
16:01<frosch123>i'll fix it :)
16:02<TrueBrain>ugh, YAPF is full with performance measurements that are never used
16:03<andythenorth>are you patching to remove NPF and original pathfinder?
16:03<andythenorth>deletion spree
16:03<andythenorth>also smooth economy
16:03<andythenorth>and one kind of signals
16:03<LordAro>andythenorth: keep or delete? :p
16:04<TrueBrain>YAPF is most likely very well done, but the code is near impossible to read and understand
16:04<andythenorth>it's a game not an OS, we don't have to preserve legacy APIs forever :P
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16:06<frosch123>TypeError: endswith first arg must be str or a tuple of str, not list
16:06<frosch123>let's check the docs whether tuple is needed or whether it is something else
16:06<TrueBrain>replace [] with ()
16:06<TrueBrain>I never understood why it doesn't support any iterable
16:06<TrueBrain>but what-ever
16:07<TrueBrain>and another issue closed!
16:08<TrueBrain>ssllllooowwwww going
16:09<andythenorth>@calc 377-199
16:09<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 178
16:09<andythenorth>just 178 to go :)
16:09<andythenorth>I have to draw about same number of trains for my grf eh
16:09<TrueBrain>I dont see you helping with the number :P
16:09<+glx>seems I haven't tried to run configure for a long time, it can't find zlib on my system
16:09<andythenorth>I have drawn 10 trains :P
16:10<andythenorth>ok let's look in issues
16:10<+glx>but it's ok, thanks to libpng :)
16:11<LordAro>TrueBrain: interestingly, one of your commits is by Truebrain, the other is some guy caled Patric Stout
16:11<TrueBrain>LordAro: Squash vs Rebase
16:11<andythenorth>why would boat arrival OOM? o_O
16:11<andythenorth>is this just usual OS X OOM?
16:11<LordAro>TrueBrain: looks light one is truelight, the other is truebrain (
16:11<TrueBrain>#6425 .. do we want to keep tickets like this around?
16:11<LordAro>looks like*
16:12<andythenorth>meh crash reports aren't for me :P
16:12<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro; I picked a really old CC
16:12<TrueBrain>that was weird
16:12<TrueBrain>let me force push a fix for that :D
16:13<TrueBrain>I will now push everything as "Patric Stout" <>, just to make youhappy :)
16:13<TrueBrain>back to weird tickets .. do we want to keep endless "enhancement" tickets?
16:13<andythenorth>performance issues aren't getting fixed, right?
16:13<andythenorth>TrueBrain: no
16:14<andythenorth>let's find and close 10 or so
16:14<TrueBrain>closed #6425 with the most honest comment
16:14<TrueBrain>#6677 needs looking into tbh
16:15<TrueBrain>marked it as "investigation"
16:15<andythenorth>FFWD doesn't work, hasn't for ages, on some platforms
16:15<andythenorth>fix is to turn off full animation
16:15<andythenorth>but OP can't understand what I mean
16:15<andythenorth>so eh
16:15<TrueBrain>so possibly we can detect FF is not really doing anything, and advise that?
16:16<andythenorth>or people should use older computers
16:16<andythenorth>do we want 200 feature requests?
16:17<TrueBrain>some are really sane
16:17<TrueBrain>and low effort
16:17<andythenorth>but ones like this?
16:17<TrueBrain>I was thinking we need an "approved" label or something
16:17<andythenorth>that issue is never getting closed
16:17<TrueBrain>"good idea"
16:17<TrueBrain>why is that never getting resolved?
16:17<TrueBrain>you can combine train-stations etc
16:17<andythenorth>that specific ticket will never be closed
16:17<TrueBrain>why not docks?
16:18<andythenorth>if someone does it, they'll just do it
16:18<andythenorth>not discuss it on the ticket
16:18<andythenorth>we have rule at work about closeable tickets
16:18<TrueBrain>you need some issues to give people who want to make stuff ideas
16:18<andythenorth>if it's not winnable, we invalidate
16:18<TrueBrain>it is a clear description, it is actionable
16:18<andythenorth>I'm convinced
16:18<TrueBrain>you are? Shit
16:18<andythenorth>can we have label that isn't enhancement?
16:19<andythenorth>they're not enhancements
16:19<TrueBrain>what would you call them?
16:19<andythenorth>they're requests for other people to spend a shit ton of free time on stuff
16:19<TrueBrain>isnt that an enhancement? :)
16:19<andythenorth>enhancement is what customers get to ask for
16:19<TrueBrain>I would even consider this a bug, tbh
16:19<TrueBrain>maybe a bad example :D
16:19<TrueBrain>can you glue bus stations together?
16:19<andythenorth>I picked a deliberately bad ticket to discuss :P
16:20<andythenorth>what is purpose of these tickets?
16:20<andythenorth>(1) to give devs ideas to work on?
16:20<andythenorth>(2) to stop users spamming endless same issue?
16:20<andythenorth>I think 2
16:20<LordAro> i like the little spike ^^
16:20<+glx>I forgot how slow it was to build with mingw
16:21<+glx>MSVC is so fast
16:21<TrueBrain>glx: I have it the other way around
16:21<TrueBrain>andythenorth: let me check one thing
16:22<TrueBrain>this issue I would consider a bug; you can do it with bus stations, train stations, etc
16:22<TrueBrain>and not with docks
16:22<TrueBrain>I have a hard time wrapping my head around that
16:22<+glx>file access on windows are slow, I guess MSVC doesn't use fopen but directly windows API
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16:22<andythenorth>TrueBrain: potato / potato
16:22<andythenorth>I totally want to be able to join docks
16:22<andythenorth>I just don't know if it's a bug
16:23<andythenorth>there's no spec that says docks should join
16:23<andythenorth>[there's no spec]
16:23<TrueBrain>okay, how I see issues in GitHub, is both for bugs (duh :D)
16:23<andythenorth>I am fine to leave it
16:23<TrueBrain>and with small things people can pick up
16:23<TrueBrain>(SMALL things)
16:23<andythenorth>I just worry that leaving the big tickets leads to requests for a roadmap
16:23<TrueBrain>big ideas have no place there
16:23<andythenorth>I fucking hate roadmaps
16:23<TrueBrain>what I do a lot with other projects, to just see if I can do something
16:24<TrueBrain>I fully agree that big tickets should not be in the issue tracker
16:24<andythenorth>I should make an app for ideas :P
16:24<LordAro>andythenorth: ah, but GH has roadmaps!
16:24<TrueBrain>I also think that tickets we leave, should be accepted as: if someone makes a patch, we accept it
16:24<LordAro>or something trello-like, anyway
16:24<LordAro>and milestones
16:24<TrueBrain>no takie-backs on: no, we dont want this after all
16:24<LordAro>someone should create a 1.9 milestone ;)
16:24<LordAro>and a 1.8 milestone, tbh
16:24<andythenorth>oh I did make an app for ideas :P
16:24<TrueBrain>so, are 2 docks for 1 station sane? :)
16:25<TrueBrain>and what label to assign it if we accept we like it, so we know which we still dont know :P
16:25<TrueBrain>how about this
16:25<TrueBrain>I renamed the current label to "enhancement-under-review"
16:26<andythenorth>'idea' saves space :D
16:26<LordAro>bit long
16:26<TrueBrain>so it is clear we still need action n that
16:26<TrueBrain>from our side
16:26<andythenorth>'idea', 'idea-rejected'
16:27<TrueBrain>and idea-under-review?
16:27<andythenorth>nah just idea
16:27<TrueBrain>I would really like to know if it is an idea that has been talked about honestly
16:27<andythenorth>it's valid until we kill it
16:27<TrueBrain>okay okay
16:27<TrueBrain>well, GitHub always calls these 'enhancements'
16:27<andythenorth>we can learn as we go
16:27<TrueBrain>maybe we should keep that
16:27<andythenorth>ok I fight that another day
16:28<andythenorth>let's achieve some closing
16:28<TrueBrain>I like doing things like others did :D
16:28<andythenorth>do we package for Ubuntu?
16:28<TrueBrain>I would like to keep the "enhancement under review" for the FlySpray imported ones :D
16:29<TrueBrain>backlogs are annoying :P
16:29<LordAro>enhancement-idea ?
16:29<andythenorth>I hate backlogs
16:29<TrueBrain>ICU ticket :)
16:29<andythenorth>is it literally just a version pin change or something?
16:29<TrueBrain>LordAro: another day :)
16:30<TrueBrain>there are also API changes
16:30<TrueBrain>not sure if they break from 52 to 55
16:30<+glx>ok make -j3 was a bad idea
16:30<TrueBrain>owh, OpenTTD doesn't produce Xenial binaries
16:30<TrueBrain>that is a bit of a shame
16:30<LordAro>TrueBrain: hence all the pango stuff
16:30<TrueBrain>as we can do that
16:31<andythenorth>can we close this? I tested the patch and it goes boom
16:32<TrueBrain>ugh @ patch; newline or whitespace issues
16:32<TrueBrain>I miss a "why"
16:32<andythenorth>I had a bonfire of old patches in 2017
16:32<andythenorth>now we should have another one
16:32<andythenorth>they're not happening, mostly
16:33<TrueBrain>its a bit silly you cannot remap space; but .. yeah
16:33<frosch123> <- updated docs
16:33<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you keep talking, I do the bookkeeping? :)
16:33<TrueBrain>frosch123: nice :D
16:34<andythenorth>I book-keeped 500 last year :D
16:34<TrueBrain>that is why I suggest I do it :)
16:34<andythenorth>3298 had a nice patch
16:34<andythenorth>bbut it might bbe a horrible implementation
16:35<andythenorth> < SDL 2 request
16:35<TrueBrain>I am still reading 6053 :D
16:36<TrueBrain>ack on 6053
16:36<TrueBrain>supporting SDL2 is really needed tbh
16:36<andythenorth> <- we can probably close, I checked with George
16:37*LordAro wonders whether "icu" should be a milestone, rather than an issue label
16:37<TrueBrain>LordAro: only if you actively work on it :)
16:37<TrueBrain>and it is more a Project, tb
16:37<andythenorth>it all gets a bit project-managed eh
16:37<frosch123>"you have received 14 new messages" :p
16:37<andythenorth>it's not work work
16:37<TrueBrain>so close 6004? (too much blabla for me)
16:38<LordAro>TrueBrain: careful now, i might actually do it
16:38<andythenorth>this one is total pony request
16:38<TrueBrain>LordAro: so you keep saying ...... ;)
16:39<TrueBrain>closed 5689
16:39<TrueBrain>that is a typical: too large to keep around
16:40<TrueBrain>andythenorth: 6686 .. why cant you build signals (dragging) from a crossing?
16:40<TrueBrain>sounds really weird?
16:40<andythenorth>can't have signals on a crossing eh
16:40<TrueBrain>but if you dragggggggg
16:40<andythenorth>same as bridge
16:40<andythenorth>not a valid starting tile for signals
16:40<TrueBrain>ack; better message it is
16:41<andythenorth>signals are already more awesome than they need to be :P
16:41<andythenorth>no more enhancements
16:41<andythenorth>I think this is vague and not going to get solved
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16:43<TrueBrain>I am very good at: not part of roadmap, byebye
16:43<andythenorth>this is just not needed
16:44<supermop_work>i've had that problem
16:44<andythenorth>this can be closed
16:44<andythenorth>find vehicles, mass-sell
16:45<andythenorth>not happening
16:45<TrueBrain>closed #5573; seems a lot of UI stuff for a very limited usecase
16:46<andythenorth>did we get 10 yet?
16:46<andythenorth> < I have this issue often, but it's TMWFTLB
16:47<TrueBrain>5551, closed
16:48<TrueBrain>closed #5437
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16:49<TrueBrain>andythenorth: perfect ticket (5244) for a newcommer
16:50<TrueBrain>369 :)
16:52<andythenorth>ok /me looks for more
16:53<andythenorth>there is enough spec to make fun newgrfs
16:53<TrueBrain>but it is funny :D
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16:54<TrueBrain>just way too big
16:55<TrueBrain>LordAro: I made a project for Pango :P
16:55<TrueBrain>put 5 tickets in there which hopefully are solved by moving to Pango
16:55<TrueBrain>I would love to know if that is not the case
16:55<andythenorth>just no
16:55<TrueBrain>(you can move it to "to be fixed" if you thing it is solved by Pango too :)
16:55<andythenorth>^ there are loads of tickets about using subtype refits as 'livery'
16:55<LordAro>TrueBrain: :i
16:55<andythenorth>as though livery is a supported thing
16:56<TrueBrain>I know nothing about NewGRF, so I cannot say anything sane about this
16:56<andythenorth>you could learn :D
16:56<andythenorth>but ok
16:57<TrueBrain>I want too
16:57<TrueBrain>but .. that is not happening in the next minute :D
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16:58<andythenorth>multi-screen again
16:59<TrueBrain>accepted #6651 in the meantime
17:00<TrueBrain>andythenorth: closed #4637
17:00<TrueBrain>useless to keep these requests around
17:00<TrueBrain>would be lovely to have it
17:00<TrueBrain>but ... as do many things :)
17:01<andythenorth>per 20 requests, pick 1
17:01<andythenorth>and it has a 10% chance of being shipped
17:01<andythenorth>those are the ratios I think
17:01<TrueBrain>its why you have roadmaps normally
17:01<TrueBrain>and wish-lists with upvoting
17:01<TrueBrain>I like upvoting systems
17:01<TrueBrain>but it has to be done proper
17:01<TrueBrain>but okay, GIVE ME ANOTHER TICKET :)
17:01<andythenorth>it's only good when you pay developers
17:02<andythenorth>no BOSS, no outcome from upvotes
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17:02<andythenorth>^ 'no'
17:02<andythenorth>maybe accept this one?
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17:04<TrueBrain>sorry, still at 3799
17:05<TrueBrain>the first suggestion frosch123 says only works indeed if you also show it to the human (no cheating by the AI!)
17:06<LordAro>Yexo :'(
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17:06<andythenorth>this is total no
17:06<__ln__>was it worth the trouble importing old tickets if everything can be closed?
17:06<TrueBrain>I am at 3164 now andythenorth :D
17:07<TrueBrain>owh, LordAro just has to attach his patch
17:07<TrueBrain>about time .. 10 years almost
17:07<andythenorth>^ 3977 is batshit
17:07<LordAro>__ln__: all the closed tickets were imported as well
17:07<andythenorth>just learn the fricking game
17:07<andythenorth>no history, it's not a browser
17:07<LordAro>TrueBrain: uwot
17:08<TrueBrain>LordAro: andythenorth said just that
17:08<TrueBrain>andythenorth: closed 3977
17:08<TrueBrain>missing a number
17:09<TrueBrain>15 tickets in total down
17:09<TrueBrain>167 enhancements to evaluate :)
17:09<andythenorth>it's nice but
17:09<andythenorth>it's not a big deal
17:09<andythenorth>and it's not been done in 8 years
17:09<TrueBrain>accepted it :)
17:10<TrueBrain>these kind of things ... are so small
17:10<TrueBrain>lovely to start learning the code with
17:10<TrueBrain>it is like .. 10 lines of code :)
17:10<TrueBrain>already 21 small things people can do :)
17:11<andythenorth>this is not stupid, just not needed
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17:11<andythenorth>I had an idea for UI-is-content
17:11<andythenorth>quite a lot of UI requests
17:11<LordAro>oh, that issue
17:11<andythenorth>just make it all scriptable
17:11<LordAro>think i've still got the branch somewhere..
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17:12<andythenorth>shitloads of newgrf ponies
17:12<Wolf01>Oh, TB has top down <3 avatar on github :D
17:12<andythenorth>where is pikka :)
17:13<andythenorth>^ might be outdated now?
17:13<TrueBrain>andythenorth: still at 4725
17:13<andythenorth>paddle faster ;D
17:13<TrueBrain>I like the idea of being more flexible in your loan
17:13<TrueBrain>but .. via console is bullshit
17:13<TrueBrain>and the UI suggestion is bad
17:13<TrueBrain>lets put a pin in thatone
17:14<TrueBrain>5471, no clue; not enough info
17:16<TrueBrain>accepted 5326; patch and everything .. I mean ..
17:17<TrueBrain>5078 is nice to have, and should be simple .. patch is nearly there
17:17<andythenorth>can't find more to invalidate
17:17<TrueBrain>*jumps to last page*
17:18<andythenorth>it's all valid issues or newgrf ponies
17:18<TrueBrain>#1003, going to close it
17:19<TrueBrain>so difficult .. the ideas are good, but ...
17:19<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #1423 .. useful?
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17:20<andythenorth>I would just draw my industry differently
17:20<andythenorth>but I am not george
17:20<__ln__>i think six years ago frosch has closed 5209 without consulting an expert
17:20<andythenorth>1423 hasn't been done in 11 years
17:20<andythenorth>not happening
17:21<TrueBrain>he commented on it 10 years later
17:21<andythenorth>__ln__: what was the expert's name? o_O
17:21<TrueBrain>seems he still cares
17:21<andythenorth>I asked him what I could close
17:21<andythenorth>he gave a list
17:21<andythenorth>5209 was not on it :P
17:21<andythenorth>oops 1423 / 5209 /s
17:21<TrueBrain>it really makes me wonder how to track these nice and good ideas
17:22<TrueBrain>but sure are not going to be implemented unless someone cares
17:22<TrueBrain>keeping them in the issue tracker feels odd
17:22<TrueBrain>can closed tickets be in a project ...
17:22<andythenorth>let's see
17:23<andythenorth>hmm I can't make projects
17:23<TrueBrain>okay, they can go in a project
17:23<__ln__>andythenorth: plenty of potential experts on this channel
17:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you think this "Idea" project would work?
17:25<andythenorth>was looking for things I could put in it
17:25<TrueBrain>I am afraid it will just be a long list
17:25<TrueBrain>okay, lets not do it
17:26<andythenorth>'newgrf pony list' would be a better project :P
17:26<TrueBrain>sometimes life is hard
17:26<TrueBrain>and good ideas get lost
17:26<andythenorth>25 newgrf labelled issues
17:26<andythenorth>this one might just want reviewed
17:27<TrueBrain>marked it as such :)
17:29<TrueBrain>found the right term for some tickets: needs triage
17:30<andythenorth>I labelled all the 'timetables' tickets
17:32<TrueBrain>#6382 ..
17:32<TrueBrain>sounds really bad
17:32<TrueBrain>3 versions ago
17:33<TrueBrain>meh; still needs triage
17:33<TrueBrain>at least we need to check if it still happens
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17:37<TrueBrain>some .. take #5277 .. I love the idea (not the solution, but something similar)
17:37<TrueBrain>but it is not something easy/simple/small
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17:38<TrueBrain>closed it .. feels sad now
17:40<TrueBrain>one more
17:40<TrueBrain>(closed 6339)
17:40<andythenorth>too much OS-specific BS
17:41<TrueBrain>is true for any OS; and it is annoying
17:41<TrueBrain>but I would consider suggesting that you can double click a savegame :)
17:42<andythenorth>I like the wait cursor
17:42<andythenorth>why bother changing it?
17:42<andythenorth>all this stuff :D
17:42<andythenorth>but no multi-docks :P
17:43<TrueBrain>accepted 6253 with a twist :)
17:43<TrueBrain>andythenorth: yeah ... 5872 ... it felt like a simple patch. But it isn't ..
17:44<TrueBrain>these things are really QoL
17:44<supermop_work>i like the zzz
17:44<TrueBrain>the feedback is good; the implementation sucks :)
17:45<TrueBrain>especially if you store it on a slow medium
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17:46<TrueBrain>closed #6319
17:46<TrueBrain>enough for today :D
17:46<TrueBrain>andythenorth: this is difficult :D
17:47<andythenorth>it is :)
17:47<TrueBrain>I also dont like there are a lot of untriaged bugs
17:47<TrueBrain>I might also do something about that ..
17:48<peter1138>multi-docks eh?
17:48<LordAro>someone should make an issue
17:48<TrueBrain>also multi-airport tbfh
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17:49<peter1138>Whatever happened to that head-to-head game mode?
17:49<TrueBrain>still there
17:49<TrueBrain>still one of the coolest ways to do Multiplayer
17:49<TrueBrain>but I first really want to clean up this issue list
17:49<TrueBrain>as this is not helping anyone :D
17:49<peter1138>Probably not.
17:50<andythenorth>I couldn't clear many of the crashes
17:50<andythenorth>don't understand crash logs :P
17:51<TrueBrain>yeah .. they are a bitch :)
17:52<TrueBrain>peter1138 even goes as far as assigning himself to bugs :D
17:53<LordAro> not in same place :(
17:54<LordAro> ah
17:54<LordAro>moved since Yexo's last link
17:55<LordAro>that is a bit old
17:56<peter1138>Of course, this bug doesn't occur on my machine.
17:56<peter1138>And the crash.log has no backtrace because... OS X?
17:56<peter1138>maybe I should go try 1.7.2
17:56<TrueBrain>peter1138: the crash.log shows: out of memory
17:56<TrueBrain>32bit system
17:56<peter1138>but 32 bits
17:57<LordAro>one might question quite why it's trying to allocate 3MB
17:57<LordAro>guess it could be anything though
17:57<TrueBrain>32bpp I guess :)
17:58<LordAro>even with no newgrfs? (crashlog lists grfs, right?)
17:58<TrueBrain>guess it needs a label .. all the 32bit 32bpp issues :)
17:58<peter1138>Ok, so the thing that happened was pretty irrelevant.
17:59<peter1138>I should not have assigned myself then :p
17:59<TrueBrain>most likely :)
17:59<TrueBrain>write down the above findings at least :)
17:59<peter1138>Is there a 64 bit OS X build?
17:59<TrueBrain>there should, as far as I am aware
18:02<TrueBrain>we still need a way for people to upload crash-files .. auto-upload on crash? :D
18:02<TrueBrain>andythenorth: 359!
18:02<TrueBrain>(closed a crash-report without any files ...)
18:02<andythenorth>359 is a good place to stop
18:02<peter1138>Should I eat or go shower and then sleep?
18:03<TrueBrain>peter1138: I will see if I can email this user in question; as he wouldnt know you asked these questions :D
18:03<peter1138>I did wonder about that, but I figured it was better to respond than not to.
18:04<peter1138>"The reduced collisions (openttd-hash175.diff) don't change YAPF's performance in a significant way; YAPF is still as slow as ever."
18:04<peter1138>Hmm, yeah, that doesn't convince me to apply the patch :p
18:04<LordAro>i did see that
18:04<LordAro>i mean, i guess less collisions is good...
18:05<LordAro>but if it doesn't actually help...
18:05<LordAro>needs more perf
18:05<TrueBrain>although that has function really is silly ... yeah
18:05<peter1138>I wonder if it helps on one of the really big games.
18:05<TrueBrain>still really tempted to apply the patch
18:05<peter1138>18 ships isn't many.
18:05<LordAro>i can't see it hurting
18:05<TrueBrain>and he used a proper hash
18:05<TrueBrain>he did his research
18:06<TrueBrain>not sure I believe his comments in the patch itself
18:08<TrueBrain>either way, good night!
18:08<TrueBrain>and tnx andythenorth :)
18:08<LordAro>peter1138: i wonder about addressing the reporter directly, when it is a flyspray issue
18:08<peter1138>I think I lost my semi-fix for boat pathfinding :(
18:09<peter1138>Or! I may have posted to the bug tracker.
18:09<peter1138>I did!
18:10<peter1138>I didn't like the randomness bit though :(
18:10<peter1138>However, good idea to turn it into a fix branch
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'm a tiny bit lost on thimbleweed park right now...
18:18<andythenorth>@calc 36 / (156 + 36)
18:18<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.1875
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18:41<peter1138>Turns out I had at some point made a backup...
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>how odd
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