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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-12

---Logopened Thu Apr 12 00:00:26 2018
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02:00<peter1138>Morningness.
02:16<__ln__>good morningberg to you as well
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02:23<Wolf01|Phone>@TB: https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning
02:24<Wolf01|Phone>Bye
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02:35<andythenorth>moin
02:39<andythenorth>Pikka o/
02:39<Pikka>o/
02:39<andythenorth>is it?
02:39<andythenorth>how well does your 47 scale down? :P
02:40<andythenorth>I need a 57-ish type train
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02:45<Pikka>hmm.. not fantastically. :P
02:47<Pikka>don't you have one?
02:47<andythenorth>nah
02:47<Pikka>actually, I think I drew one for olde 10cc, let me look
02:48<andythenorth>I need a 57, 89, 68 and 88
02:48<andythenorth>or I fake them
02:49<Pikka>ack, I only did a 37, 66 and 86 :)
02:49<andythenorth>nvm
02:50<andythenorth>I redrew your 37 already :)
02:50<andythenorth>I need an APT-thing, a pendolino and a velar thing too :)
02:51<Pikka>ew, class 88
02:51<andythenorth>68 with a pantograph innit
02:52<Pikka>yes, also ew 68 :)
02:52<andythenorth>seems I need a 70 as well
02:52<Pikka>do you?
02:52<andythenorth>apparently
02:53<andythenorth>but diesels are easy to draw
02:53<andythenorth>I need some steam engines too
02:53<andythenorth>@seen danmack
02:53<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 50 weeks, 3 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
02:53<andythenorth>steam engines are the one thing I can't draw :P
02:53<andythenorth>I have failed to draw any, but Dan does 10 before lunchtime
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02:58<Pikka>:/
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05:06<andythenorth>is github too big too fail? o_O
05:18<Pikka>2big2furious
05:18*Pikka -> dins
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05:30<SpComb>but why would github fail, they have so many users!
05:38<andythenorth>I wonder how they could fail, other than (1) acquisition (2) catastrophic infra fail
05:39<SpComb>well, obviously by failing to monetize their user base
05:40<SpComb>I don't actually know if github is profitable, but investor money is not for serving the public good
05:41<andythenorth>hmm
05:42<andythenorth>I can't see projects like Bootstrap wanting to lose their 16k closed issues
05:43<andythenorth>kubernetes is there too, and ansible
05:43<SpComb>github was over 66m$ in the negative in 2016
05:43<andythenorth>let's see
05:47<andythenorth>I guess my question is really 'why are people scared about openttd code being on github'
05:49<andythenorth>the failure modes seem predictable and defensible
06:02<SpComb>relying on free services is always a bit questionable, I'm assuming openttd doesn't pay github anything
06:10<andythenorth>nope
06:19<peter1138>https://help.github.com/articles/backing-up-a-repository/
06:20<peter1138>Which people are scared?
06:25<andythenorth>$some
06:25<andythenorth>I'm more anticipating the question for writing docs
06:25<peter1138>Ah
06:25<andythenorth>repo pfff
06:25<andythenorth>repo is fine
06:26<andythenorth>it's the tickets that could just disappear
06:26<andythenorth>and PRs
06:26<andythenorth>I just would bet against that actually happening
06:26<peter1138>The link says that is possible.
06:27<peter1138>(Possible to back up)
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06:28<andythenorth>yes
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06:30<LordAro>seems reasonable to back it up, but the source itself is perfectly safe
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06:50<peter1138>Yes, far safer than SVN.
07:17<andythenorth>51 done, 123 to do
07:17<andythenorth>such numbers :P
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07:32<peter1138>How's NRT?
07:32<andythenorth>needs rebased
07:32<peter1138>Hmm.
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07:33<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/issues/22#issuecomment-379849291
07:35<andythenorth>if it gets done I'll have to make an NRT Road Hog
07:35<andythenorth>and I'm painting trains right now so eh :P
07:35<peter1138>I think I'm free tonight...
07:36<andythenorth>Hogs it is then :P
08:12<andythenorth>3 trains per hour
08:13<andythenorth>@calc 360 / 24
08:13<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 15
08:13<andythenorth>hmm 15 days non-stop
08:13<andythenorth>nope
08:13<andythenorth>silly maths
08:13<andythenorth>@calc 40 / 24
08:13<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 1.66666666667
08:13<andythenorth>better
08:13<andythenorth>Pikka: what hoppers? o-O
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08:28<peter1138>Hmm, do we need one-click crash report uploading?
08:29<andythenorth>didn't we have it once?
08:29<andythenorth>and it got removed?
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>iirc it got removed just because we didn't have the backend infrastructure for it
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>if we decide to add it back in, we also need someone who weeds through them, sorts them into duplicates, and stuff
08:35<andythenorth>AI :P
08:35<andythenorth>hmm railcars http://www.railpictures.net/photo/654544/
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: NoCrash?
08:36<andythenorth>maybe :P
08:41<andythenorth>bbl
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09:45<supermop_work>yo
09:50<peter1138>Hmm, I don't remember having that.
09:52<peter1138>Infrastructure sharing, eh?
09:52<peter1138>I remember subsidiaries too.
09:52<peter1138>Be nice to have them.
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10:50<@Alberth>o/
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11:00<andythenorth>o/
11:02<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1205143#p1205143
11:02<andythenorth>^ is that just because 1.8.0 bumped savegame version?
11:02<andythenorth>so NRT fork now looks 'older' and therefore is loaded?
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>that should usually result in "incompatible" error
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't know what you're doing
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>that depends on what you change
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>it might not be able to detect differences in map layout, and silently fail/do weird things
11:08<andythenorth>I have NFI how a fork is supposed to be able to modify the saveload code in trunk eh?
11:09<andythenorth>is there some executable code in the savegame that is run on load?
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>no, you should not worry about it
11:09<andythenorth>it seems insane
11:09<andythenorth>literally program A is supposed to modify program B somehow? o_O
11:10<@Alberth>it's not compatible, so don't try to load saves of game A into game B
11:11*andythenorth back to pixels
11:11<@Alberth>much saner :)
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>once i suggested to use "minor savegame version != 0" for patchpacks
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>but that idea was not well received
11:12<andythenorth>QoL issue?
11:12<andythenorth>do we get much failure demand from players loading patchpack saves into trunk?
11:12<@Alberth>not that I am aware of
11:13<@Alberth>people generally only play the patchpack, as it has more features
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, like i said, usually it fails directly on load, but if it seems to work, people will then stumble over undebuggable errors later on
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause>on a separate note, we might need a big red warning message for people trying to load a crash.sav file
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>i imagine something like this: on loading a crash.sav, the user is prompted with a message that this is an emergency save file, which may contain corrupted data and it is advised to play from an earlier autosave instead
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>on loading a "secondary" savegame, i.e. a manual savegame made with the "loaded crash.sav" flag active, it shows the smae message, but with an option to disable this warning, and re-enable crash dump/save generation again
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>both these are logged in the game log
11:27<Deep3D>Hello, is a Raspberry Pi OK for setting up a OpenTTD server for 2-3 users with a large map?
11:27<supermop_work>what is 'large'
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>Deep3D: OpenTTD is pretty CPU heavy, so i'd tend towards "no" for the "large" part
11:28<Deep3D>Ok, not large as 4000x4000. Maybe 1024x1024?
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>it depends heavily on your play style, number of trains, industries, whatever
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>it may work at first and then slow down over time
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>as you build more stuff and more cargo gets transported
11:30<Deep3D>I understand, then Ill prob not use pi :)
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>in any case, it's probably the safest if the slowest computer is the server
11:32<andythenorth>https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/160664-monowheel-steered-with-torque-effect/
11:32<andythenorth>no Wolf? o-O
11:32<Deep3D>tnx
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>if the server is slow, it will just make the game run slower. if one of the clients is slow, it will get kicked from the game and unable to play
11:36<andythenorth>hmm
11:36<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE: flashing rear light on trains, with sprite layer
11:36<andythenorth>should I? :P
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11:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: bonus points for getting the wheel to stand upright again after it fell over?
11:39<andythenorth>some kind of linear actuator?
11:39<andythenorth>that pushes it up?
11:39<andythenorth>or another moving mass ?
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's essentially a "reaction wheel", so with enough power and picking the right spin direction, it should be able to stand up
11:41<andythenorth>is 2 axes of rotation enough?
11:41<andythenorth>I suppose rotating one of the axes moves the other
11:41<andythenorth>so it's pretty variable
11:42*andythenorth totally doesn't understand sprite layers
11:42<andythenorth>time for nml docs
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, typically you'd have reaction wheels in a 3d-gyroscope-formation, to freely position the spin direction
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>but if the wheel is laying flat, you can assume one direction is already known
11:43<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you should build one and try it :)
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>the second direction would then be used to choose the lowest point of the wheel, to pick the angle that is easiest to overcome
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>and the 3rd direction is then used to put the force in to stand up
11:44<andythenorth>rise of the machines :P
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>there's another key component here, applying the force as close to the pivot point as possible
11:46<andythenorth>I suspect it might just slide, and not rock over
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11:46<andythenorth>if the edges of the wheel were high-friction it would likely work
11:46<andythenorth>a band of rubber
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>so that might mean you optimally have 5 degrees of freedom
11:47<andythenorth>presumably if there was a 3rd moving mass, one could lean the monowheel in curves? o_O
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>possibly 4 suffices?
11:48<supermop_work>it should have contrarotating flywheels
11:48<andythenorth>monowheel https://drivetribe.com/p/science-friction-5-vehicles-from-DGWexH1mTiGvMKoooaUOCA?iid=Pc64bDL3Rh6gu9LY6RrY6Q
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, "leaning" is how most real-world monowheels turn
11:48<supermop_work>and vary the ratio of spin to steer
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>where the movable mass is the person sitting in them
11:49<supermop_work>so that it can make faster/finer adjustments and always have wheels spinning, to prevent hamster wheeling
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12:54<Wolf01>o/
12:56<@Alberth>o/
12:56<Wolf01>TB: did you see the link I posted this morning?
12:57<Wolf01>If not, it might be of your interest: https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning <- troubleshooting docker ebook for free
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13:14<TrueBrain>Wolf01: highlighting doesnt work if you dont use my name :)
13:15<TrueBrain>and tnx :)
13:15<Wolf01>I don't want to highlight you, bad things happened (usually to Xeryus) :P
13:16<andythenorth>so I want to do something about all the issues that are wanted
13:16<andythenorth>but never happening
13:16<andythenorth>specifically a lot of them are newgrf
13:16<TrueBrain>what do you have in mind?
13:16<andythenorth>fuck knows :(
13:16<andythenorth>I have been looking how Bootstrap handles issues
13:17<andythenorth>mdo is pretty good, short but fair
13:17<andythenorth>https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/25788
13:17<andythenorth>https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/25689
13:17<andythenorth>https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/25956
13:17<andythenorth>Bootstrap's "contributing" page is also not bad https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#pull-requests
13:18<andythenorth>they only have 330 open issues
13:18<andythenorth>and they are one of the biggest Github projects
13:18<Wolf01>HA! -> "Please ask first before embarking on any significant pull request (e.g. implementing features, refactoring code, porting to a different language), otherwise you risk spending a lot of time working on something that the project's developers might not want to merge into the project."
13:19<andythenorth>they have 16k close issues
13:19<andythenorth>we have 6k
13:19<TrueBrain>all in the same idea: not on the roadmap, in what-ever wording
13:19<andythenorth>maybe we are suddenly one of the biggest Github projects :P
13:19<Wolf01>We don't even have a roadmap!
13:19<Wolf01>Also, dinner, long, BBL
13:19<andythenorth>roadmaps suck
13:19<andythenorth>http://markdotto.com/2015/09/28/bootstrap-features/
13:19<TrueBrain>Wolf01: yeah, that annoyed me; but I lacked other wording
13:19<TrueBrain>but I saw a few good examples of how other projects deal with it
13:20<TrueBrain>stuff like: we dont see this happening in the short future
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13:20<andythenorth>'contrary to goals'
13:20<TrueBrain>and: tnx for the awesome idea, but this won't be part of the core
13:20<andythenorth>'not a current priority'
13:20<TrueBrain>yup
13:20<TrueBrain>basically, keep what fits in the next milestone
13:20<andythenorth>Bootstrap did really well at insisting on being a framework
13:20<andythenorth>I am a massive fan of their work
13:21<andythenorth>most people only see the button style, and go 'meh bootstrap'
13:21<andythenorth>but they are fools
13:21<TrueBrain>PITTY THE FOOL
13:21<andythenorth>also the idea of complete docs, compiled with the project
13:21<andythenorth>and no fricking sphinx :P
13:21<andythenorth>I stole that for newgrf
13:25<andythenorth>can we delete some of the labels?
13:25<TrueBrain>randomly, sure
13:25<TrueBrain>but maybe you want to say which :D
13:25<andythenorth>NewCargos isn't winning us much
13:26<TrueBrain>all the uncoloured ones I dislike
13:26<andythenorth>it's just too many
13:26<andythenorth>too many = more labelled wrong
13:26<TrueBrain>many is not an issue if they are helpful
13:26<TrueBrain>so lets not remove them for removing them
13:26<andythenorth>it is when trying to apply them
13:26<TrueBrain>that is just creating work :D
13:26<TrueBrain>I would suggest to never apply the non-coloured ones :D
13:27<andythenorth>"Trams"
13:27<TrueBrain>but keeping up with incoming bugs is easier than getting ride of the 359 :D
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13:27<TrueBrain>none use Trams anymore
13:27<TrueBrain>so yeah, remove it if it bothers you
13:27<andythenorth>can I just break some eggs?
13:27<TrueBrain>you OCD-high-person :)
13:27<TrueBrain>depends on the eggs :)
13:28<andythenorth>we have 2 fricking pages of labels
13:28<andythenorth>one of them is "Squirrel"
13:28<TrueBrain>yes;seriously, dont worry about the labels
13:28<TrueBrain>dont create work
13:28<andythenorth>but we also have "Script"
13:28<TrueBrain>lets first deal with what is important .. 359 bug tickets
13:28<andythenorth>I have no way of clustering them though :P
13:28<TrueBrain>if you have your open tickets under control
13:28<TrueBrain>it is easier to categorize them
13:28<andythenorth>you can see I gave up with Flyspray categories as they were mostly crap :)
13:28<TrueBrain>just randomly removing labels is not really helping :)
13:29<TrueBrain>yeah ... so you added in the topic ....
13:29<TrueBrain>that really .. changed stuff?!
13:29<TrueBrain>:P
13:29<andythenorth>it was fliterable by search
13:29<TrueBrain>fair enough
13:29<TrueBrain>also what labels are good for btw :)
13:29<andythenorth>I didn't want to break the carefully applied category system
13:29<andythenorth>someone obviously designed it for a reason
13:29<TrueBrain>so for today I want to crawl through crash reports
13:29<andythenorth>ok
13:30<TrueBrain>48 when I search for crash
13:30<andythenorth>same
13:30<andythenorth>first is 6691
13:31<andythenorth>hmm this needs someone !andythenorth
13:31<andythenorth>'crash' just makes me go 'wah'
13:31<TrueBrain>ghehe
13:31<frosch123>do we care about new-line at end-of-file?
13:31<TrueBrain>so give me an hour to look them through :) You maybe can look at NewGRF stuff?
13:31<TrueBrain>frosch123: please, always do
13:31<TrueBrain>please please please
13:32<TrueBrain>any sane editor fixes it for you
13:32<TrueBrain>git yells at you
13:32<TrueBrain>github does too :)
13:32<frosch123>TrueBrain: tell glx :p
13:32<TrueBrain>frosch123: if you add a line if there is no end-of-line, you have 2 changed lines
13:32<TrueBrain>which is .... WEIRD
13:32<andythenorth>I am looking at OS X crashes
13:32<frosch123>TrueBrain: so, should commit-checker check that?
13:32<TrueBrain>basically the whole world switched to: ADD NEWLINE! (file-bytes[-1] == '\n')
13:32<TrueBrain>:D
13:32<TrueBrain>please? :D:D
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13:33<+glx>yes add the check
13:33<+glx>to be on the safe side
13:36<TrueBrain>7 year old bug ticket ... close :D
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13:36<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I agree with your OSX statement; just we also need to be sure we are compatible with n-2 in that case :D
13:37<andythenorth>I am generally n-1 because n is usually a shitshow of bugs
13:37<andythenorth>but n-2, meh
13:37<andythenorth>anyway I close that one
13:37<TrueBrain>I was about to say :P
13:38<andythenorth>probably closing https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5949
13:39<TrueBrain>go for it
13:39<TrueBrain>found a 5 year old LordAro patch :P
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13:40<TrueBrain>tnx Deep3D, everything was way too flat for me taste
13:40<andythenorth>I test https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6546#issuecomment-379455367
13:42<TrueBrain>"suggest closing it" *presses close button*
13:43<TrueBrain>I keep reading the same tickets ... going to rename the 'bug' label too, so I know which tickets still needs looking at ..
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13:45<andythenorth>yeah that was bugging me
13:46<andythenorth>I search by different label and get very overlapping results
13:47<TrueBrain>so any ticket with "from Flyspray" label of some form/kind
13:47<TrueBrain>still needs attention :)
13:51<Deep3D>TrueBrain, hehe :D
13:58<andythenorth>well https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6546#issuecomment-380892042
13:58<andythenorth>Oh I should put Mac OS version
14:00<andythenorth>no idea if that patch is insane
14:00<andythenorth>if it's just dropping lots of game logic, then yeah, it could be faster :P
14:00<TrueBrain>the patch feels a bit wonky .. but that is for someone to find out :)
14:01<TrueBrain>at least it highlight they are on the right track
14:04<@Rubidium>technically what it does not drawing all the game ticks, so yeah... obviously it's faster... but if you use -v null it's even faster
14:04<TrueBrain>ha; lol
14:04<@Rubidium>it doesn't really make the game itself faster
14:04<TrueBrain>yeah, that is not the idea of Fast Forward :D
14:04<TrueBrain>so comment that on GitHub please :)
14:04<andythenorth>more ICU? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6221
14:04<@Rubidium>so fast forwarding a pretty filled map won't get a big improvement
14:05<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I dont think so .. hence the 'triage'
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14:15<TrueBrain>lot of crashes need triage ..
14:19<TrueBrain>lot of Korean users btw
14:21<frosch123>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD-git-hooks/pull/3
14:22<frosch123>i had to install a hexeditor to create the testcase
14:22<frosch123>i did not figure out how to do it with a regualr editor :p
14:22<andythenorth>351 issues open :P
14:22<TrueBrain>lol @ frosch123 :D
14:22<TrueBrain>glx is just special :D
14:24<LordAro>frosch123: :D
14:25<LordAro>TrueBrain: ah, 5722?
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14:25<TrueBrain>dunno, sent you a poke via GitHub :P
14:26<LordAro>yup
14:26<TrueBrain>andythenorth: okay, done with everything with 'crash' in it
14:26<TrueBrain>19 triage tickets now
14:32<TrueBrain>good thing about no notifications for closing tickets to the owners ... less complaining :P
14:32<TrueBrain>350!
14:32<peter1138>be nice if that opengl blitter was working
14:32<peter1138>with almost free palette animation
14:32<TrueBrain>didnt you say that ... 10 years ago?!
14:32<peter1138>not mine
14:33<andythenorth>350 :)
14:33<TrueBrain>andythenorth: is #6661 fixable at all?
14:33<TrueBrain>or is it fixed in other grfs?
14:34<andythenorth>hmm
14:36<TrueBrain>frosch123 / LordAro: is #6649 a good idea?
14:36<TrueBrain>(and does it work on our current targets? Dunno what version it needs etc)
14:38<frosch123>TrueBrain: the goal is welcome, but it is only for after the farm is done, and also the patches do not comply to coding style
14:39<TrueBrain>yeah, so compilers need an update
14:39<TrueBrain>k k
14:40<LordAro>what frosch123 said
14:40<LordAro>although compilers don't need updating any further
14:40<LordAro>(on jenkinsfarm)
14:40<frosch123>also i would use c++11 loop style instead of replacing Length() with size()
14:40<TrueBrain>Docker farm is not done yet LordAro :)
14:41<TrueBrain>no OSX and Windows :)
14:41<LordAro>TrueBrain: i didn't say it was done ;)
14:41<TrueBrain>frosch123: maybe you could write something up on the wiki about c++11 coding style etc?
14:41<TrueBrain>LordAro: no, but you made it more confusing :)
14:42<frosch123>yes, but other stuff first :)
14:43<TrueBrain>pushed new commiter-checker to CI
14:43<LordAro>gah, i created a branch named "origin/master"
14:44<peter1138>Re #559, when are we adding SSL? ;p
14:45<TrueBrain>you mean 599?
14:45<peter1138>Yes, thanks.
14:45<TrueBrain>that issue is more an issue than I would like to admit
14:45<TrueBrain>do we md5 passwords?
14:46<TrueBrain>nope
14:46<TrueBrain>okay, this really needs attention
14:47<peter1138>There is password hashing. But it's salted MD5 which is not really very good these days.
14:47<TrueBrain>frosch123: your change works good; glx' patch is now denied :)
14:47<peter1138>Even so, without a secure transport layer, it's sniffable.
14:47<TrueBrain>I see passwords over the wire as plain text?
14:48<peter1138>Over the wire, yes.
14:48<peter1138>If you hash it client side, then you need it unhashed on the server.
14:48<TrueBrain>euh .. TLS is not a requirement to keep passwords safe
14:48<TrueBrain>there are plenty of solutions which solve that, fully secure
14:48<TrueBrain>so I doubt adding TLS is a good solution for us currently
14:48<peter1138>It pretty much is. All the digest schemes require the password to be in plaintext on the server side.
14:48<TrueBrain>huh?
14:49<TrueBrain>we control the server and client code of the network
14:49<peter1138>Yes?
14:49<LordAro>sounds like TMWFTLB to me
14:49<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you missed a line Rubidium said a bit later, which also might be relevant
14:49<TrueBrain>LordAro: which part?
14:49<TrueBrain>LordAro: bit of a random comment :D
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14:50<LordAro>those who want their ottd company passwords to be "secure" need to reevaluate their priorities
14:50<TrueBrain>like you burst in a room and yell: TMWFTLB :D
14:50<TrueBrain>LordAro: but there you are wrong; very wrong even
14:50<TrueBrain>people dont understand this part of the IT world
14:50<peter1138>We could remove the company password hashing, and then we'd be able to support secure passwords. Either or.
14:50<TrueBrain>they simply "assume they can fill in their google password"
14:50<TrueBrain>LordAro: in these modern days, you are kinda obligated to protect users from this sillyness
14:51<TrueBrain>especially as it goes over the wire
14:51<LordAro>true, i hadn't considered that
14:51<TrueBrain>it really is really bad we still do that
14:51<peter1138>Didn't we once have thoughts about implementing a centralised authentication system. User logs in to website, tokens authenticate user to server. etc.
14:51<peter1138>The thought didn't get very far because centralised.
14:52<LordAro>mm, any solution needs to work in the event all of ottd.org disappears
14:52<peter1138>Anyway, OpenSSL isn't *too* hard.
14:53<peter1138>Not that I'm volunteering of course :D
14:53<LordAro>extra dependency though
14:53<peter1138>Yes, but secure.
14:53<TrueBrain>owh, I was wrongly informed .. I should look in sources myself ffs
14:53<TrueBrain>passwords are not sent plaintext
14:53<TrueBrain>so it is a bit less terrible
14:53<TrueBrain>they are even salted, so no rainbows .. possibly unicorns
14:54<TrueBrain>adding TLS to solve this issue is bringing a gun to a pillow fight. Adding TLS might be a nice gimmic, but lets please not overdo solutions
14:55<TrueBrain>wow, there is more thought in this hash than I expeted
14:55<TrueBrain>who wrote this ..
14:56<TrueBrain>kudos to Rubidium :)
14:56<TrueBrain>wait, no, he just moved the code
14:57<peter1138>Passwords are hashed client side.
14:57<peter1138>This means it's still snoopable, but at least it's not going to be somebody's clear text google password.
14:58<peter1138>Hmm, but there is _password_game_seed
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14:58<TrueBrain>okay, that reduces priority of that part drasticly
14:59<peter1138>Hmm, the seed is the map generation seed, so that part is fixed.
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15:00<peter1138>That means you can snoop the hashed password, and use it to join the current server + map combo.
15:00<TrueBrain>yes; that is not an issue
15:00<TrueBrain>if you want to solve that, simply add a replay-id
15:00<peter1138>Well, just map I suppose, if two servers happened to be running the same game.
15:01<+glx>just use 2FA ;)
15:01<peter1138>:p
15:01<TrueBrain>peter1138: serverids are unique
15:01<TrueBrain>well, advertised servers
15:01<TrueBrain>what is the value for LAN servers .. hmm
15:01<peter1138>Ah, network_id as well. so yes, current server + map combo.
15:01<TrueBrain>anyway, we are not protecting against replay
15:01<TrueBrain>we want to keep the password safe
15:02<frosch123>at some point we stored the default password as plaintext in openttd.cfg
15:02<frosch123>not sure whether that is still the case
15:02<TrueBrain>lol
15:02<peter1138>still, salted md5 is not very secure ;)
15:02<TrueBrain>well, 599 is about storing the passwords on save etc
15:02<peter1138>but yeah, better than md5.
15:02<TrueBrain>peter1138: currently I see no attack vector
15:03<TrueBrain>I will check at work, but ..
15:03<TrueBrain>bruteforce is the only way
15:03<peter1138>Yes.
15:03<TrueBrain>frosch123: so if we solve 599, we can also fix that, if that is still the case :D
15:03<TrueBrain>but storing passwords needs a bit more love
15:04<frosch123>anyway, is it rude to force-push to branches in PR? it seems to delete all the commented code from the PR
15:04<+glx>I like the time it takes to check a PR not touching the source code ;)
15:04<peter1138>TrueBrain, MD5 bruteforcing is easy these days, that's the thing.
15:04<TrueBrain>frosch123: that is why I like squashing! :P
15:05<+glx>and MSVC is not even in the check loop :)
15:05<peter1138>GPUs can do billions of MD5 hashes every second.
15:05<peter1138>But yeah, it's not plaintext, so not urgently a problem.
15:06<+glx>and it's just a password without any other info
15:06<peter1138>Would be nice to switch to bcrypt or something if we do start saving them.
15:07<frosch123>TrueBrain: with the requirement "must be up-to-date" that does not help either
15:08<TrueBrain>frosch123: nope
15:08<frosch123>i was wondering whether one can attach a different branch to the same pr
15:08<TrueBrain>not that I know
15:08<LordAro>frosch123: not too rude, really
15:08<LordAro>also, no
15:08<+glx>I just used the easy way for my PR, added a commit
15:08<TrueBrain>glx: it rarely is "just a password"
15:08<LordAro>"must be up to date" is a bit of a silly rule - if it won't merge, GH will tell you
15:09<TrueBrain>its not silly from a CI point-of-view
15:09<frosch123>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6702/commits/ed6757bfcbba06345ca54a10553bcd8013309df8 <- glx: i removed the first declaration of "version"
15:09<TrueBrain>this somewhat guarantees master is always correct
15:09<+glx>TrueBrain: I mean in openttd case, nothing else is stored in relation to the player
15:09<LordAro>TrueBrain: i don't follow
15:09<TrueBrain>if you let that go a bit, you don't need it; squash and rebase (both merge methods) put it on top anyway
15:09<TrueBrain>glx: it can be enough to login to someones gmail, sadly
15:10<TrueBrain>LordAro: currently, your patch needs to be on top of the branch
15:10<TrueBrain>so the CI kicks in
15:10<TrueBrain>says: this works
15:10<TrueBrain>if you merge that, master works
15:10<TrueBrain>no questions
15:10<TrueBrain>as .. that was already validated
15:10<TrueBrain>if you allow PRs that are not up-to-date, but mergable
15:10<TrueBrain>it can fail the CI
15:10<LordAro>in what situations would a branch that isn't "on top" result in broken stuff?
15:11<TrueBrain>you make a PR where you remove a global
15:11<TrueBrain>I make a PR where I make a new use of that same global
15:11<TrueBrain>you merge
15:11<TrueBrain>my PR works fine
15:11<TrueBrain>just not when merged
15:11<TrueBrain>this ia very common
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>md5 is not a cryptographically safe operation
15:11<LordAro>hmm, i guess
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>should not use anything below sha256
15:11<TrueBrain>LordAro: check projects that allow non-up-to-date
15:12<TrueBrain>every N commits master breaks
15:12<TrueBrain>and they fix it
15:12<TrueBrain>not a big issue
15:12<+glx>hmm where can I see what is wrong in the commit checker ?
15:12<TrueBrain>but it does happen more often than you would expect
15:12<TrueBrain>glx: click details
15:12<TrueBrain>then the line above what fails
15:12<TrueBrain>(so not the 'wait', but the 'log')
15:13<TrueBrain>glx: frosch123 made his scripts that it doesnt check the full result, but every commit on its own
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15:13<TrueBrain>(he assumes you will be rebasing)
15:13<TrueBrain>so in your case, your first commit still doesnt have that newline
15:13<TrueBrain>we are a bit split between methods of working with GitHub currently :D
15:13<+glx>yes but it's fixed by the next one
15:13<TrueBrain>yes; like I just said, the checker checks every commit
15:13<TrueBrain>not the collection of the commits
15:14<TrueBrain>if you assume a PR is going to be rebased, that is a proper assumption
15:14<TrueBrain>if you assume a PR is going to be squashed, it is not
15:14<TrueBrain>no way of knowing beforehand
15:14<frosch123>can we report different check states to GH? "good for rebase" and "good for squash"?
15:14<TrueBrain>or we must allow chains of which a few break master, but not the final result :)
15:15<TrueBrain>not in a fail-proof way
15:15<TrueBrain>you cannot disable one of the two methods
15:15<TrueBrain>as far as I know
15:15<TrueBrain>the status simply says: fail, error, success, pending
15:16<frosch123>jenkins uses to have "unstable" as third result
15:16<TrueBrain>we talk about GitHub here :)
15:16<+glx>anyway TV time for me
15:16<TrueBrain>I can make Jenkins do what ever the fuck I want :P
15:16<TrueBrain>it is GitHub that locks down workflows :(
15:17<TrueBrain>(it is why projects work with bots; because they want their own workflow :D)
15:17<TrueBrain>as we can make Jenkins leave behind labels
15:18<TrueBrain>so in theory we can make something like: CI kicks in, leaves label: squashable / FFable
15:18<TrueBrain>if PR is approved, bot automerges and pushes to master
15:19<TrueBrain>but I really wonder if force pushing is something that works long-term on github :(
15:20<frosch123>we reserved a gitlab account :)
15:20<TrueBrain>different name, different issues; but issues you will have :)
15:21<TrueBrain>frosch123: but for a short-term solution: why not validate the diff based on the total work
15:21<TrueBrain>and messages per commit
15:21<TrueBrain>does it matter if a few commits on master don't validate?
15:21<TrueBrain>we also don't check CI on them if they are pushed in a single push
15:21<TrueBrain>(so they might fail building)
15:21<andythenorth>can we sack this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5975
15:21<andythenorth>[see last comment]
15:22<TrueBrain>go for it
15:22<TrueBrain>in general, close tickets with more than 1 question tbfh :P
15:23<TrueBrain>frosch123: because if you let go of the check-per-commit, the up-to-date can also be let go; master will break from time to time, but we just have to fix it up then :)
15:23<TrueBrain>(no clue if it works; just suggesting :D)
15:24<supermop_work>did anyone look at that thing few weeks ago in forums about quadratic pax generation fix?
15:24<frosch123>TrueBrain: we also cannot check messages then
15:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: messages should always comply tbh :P
15:24<TrueBrain>a force push for that sounds reasonable
15:24<TrueBrain>and a kick in the head for not installing the pre-commit :D
15:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I closed #599 :(
15:25<andythenorth>TrueBrain: can we have a script comment on every open FS issue, linking it to github?
15:25<TrueBrain>I feel sad
15:25<andythenorth>I worry about people like Michael and George
15:25<andythenorth>who have many many issues
15:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I think I will do that this weekend for every open ticket
15:25<andythenorth>and won't know about github
15:25<andythenorth>ok cool
15:25<TrueBrain>just a link to GitHub
15:25<andythenorth>we have no decent announcement yet :P
15:26<andythenorth>and I haven't got inspired to write a proper one
15:26<TrueBrain>just ... 400 times copy/pastnig/changing
15:26<TrueBrain>not looking forward to that :P
15:26<TrueBrain>before weekends end?
15:26<andythenorth>bot? :P
15:26<supermop_work>also comment on forums "i did free work at in place of some workers who were on strike, why are the striking workers upset with me?"
15:26<TrueBrain>I might script it .. but that might be more effort :)
15:27<TrueBrain>supermop_work: because that person is a dick? :)
15:27-!-synchris [~synchris@139.138.202.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:27<supermop_work>i tried to be more diplomatic
15:27<andythenorth>supermop_work: is there some 'off-topic' section? :P
15:27<andythenorth>or is that in newgrf?
15:28<supermop_work>off topic
15:28<andythenorth>I found it
15:29<andythenorth>we have some forum posters who live in a different reality to me
15:29<andythenorth>I don't know who is neuro-non-typical
15:29<andythenorth>maybe it's me
15:30<peter1138>Who what now?
15:31<andythenorth>yes
15:31<andythenorth>frosch123: what is the official roadmap for newgrf?
15:31<andythenorth>[yes | no | list of issues]
15:32<peter1138>NRT!
15:32<andythenorth>ok
15:32<frosch123>what roadmap?
15:32<andythenorth>so 'yes'
15:32<peter1138>Well no.
15:33<andythenorth>the official roadmap is 'what?'
15:33<peter1138>Hmm, I had a patch to allow non-combining rail types.
15:33<peter1138>Somebody wanted it, so I made it, but never had a build for them to test.
15:33<supermop_work>not roadtypesmap
15:33<andythenorth>there are 24 newgrf issues, most of which can be sacked imho
15:34<TrueBrain>andythenorth: closed #5140
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>12 from george for missing variables and 11 from snail for missing variables?
15:34<andythenorth>the majority of newgrf issues are problems with the livery spec
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>and 1 random one who doesn't have any clue?
15:34<andythenorth>many things are missing or broken in the livery spec
15:35<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5588
15:35<@orudge>TrueBrain: have left a comment on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6699 - not sure exactly what the workflow we're wanting to use here is :)
15:36<andythenorth>closed 1
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd lean towards "deprecate this and reimplement it in a sane way"
15:36<TrueBrain>orudge: yeah .. I fucked thatone up :D Just had to press the button
15:36<TrueBrain>removing my merge and for ce pushing was the correct solution
15:36<TrueBrain>let me check why CI fails .. that is weird
15:37<@orudge>There are no actual code changes of course
15:37<@orudge>maybe that confuses it :D
15:37<TrueBrain>it says it cannot find the commit
15:37<andythenorth>is this a genuine quality issue? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6589
15:37<andythenorth>or "don't do that"
15:38<TrueBrain>I already marked it as bug andythenorth
15:38<@orudge>TrueBrain: it looks like it's trying to pull from OpenTTD/OpenTTD.git
15:38<@orudge>rather than orudge/OpenTTD.git
15:38<TrueBrain>(look at the labels andythenorth! :P)
15:38<TrueBrain>orudge: no, that is correct
15:38<@orudge>ah
15:38<@orudge>is it then patching them in?
15:38<TrueBrain>there is a ref in there pointing to the right code
15:38<@orudge>OK
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: every crash should be treated as "insert code to prevent this, if possible"
15:38<frosch123>andythenorth: with any api i prefer "write a spec, let it rest for a few weeks/months, straighten it, repeat until good"
15:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ok, quality issue then
15:39<TrueBrain>orudge: this really is odd now :D
15:39<frosch123>must "i need a var" requests are stupid, because authors tend to say what should be done, not what they need
15:39<frosch123>*most
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: this sounds like a "thread working on unclean data" issue
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: with 5588 i think they stated pretty clearly what they want. hide an entry from the refit list so existing vehicles can use it but no new ones
15:41<TrueBrain>orudge: GitHub reports the PR is not there .... lol .....
15:41<@orudge>TrueBrain: I guess because the commit was rebased
15:41<TrueBrain>shouldnt matter
15:41<TrueBrain>git doesnt care about these things
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: problem is the existing spec has both things combined, and due to the strings having to be consecutive is not flexible enough to be extended
15:42<andythenorth>problem is that subtypes are stupid
15:43<andythenorth>so why do any more work on them?
15:43<peter1138>Remove it completely?
15:43<andythenorth>imagine the drama
15:43<peter1138>:D
15:43<andythenorth>much as I like deleting
15:43<TrueBrain>ah, orudge, think I got it
15:43<andythenorth>"you have killed all our favourite sets"
15:43<TrueBrain>somehow GitHub didn't sync your branch
15:44<TrueBrain>I really should not have pushed that button
15:44<@orudge>Heh
15:44<TrueBrain>orudge: you did a 'git push -f' right?
15:44<@orudge>Yep
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the first thing i learned in compiler construction class: "you don't question the specs. you implement them to the letter"
15:44<TrueBrain>the PR ref still shows my merge
15:44<TrueBrain>orudge: lets close the PR and create a new one
15:44<@orudge>I can close it and create a new one if ... heh
15:44<TrueBrain>dont feel like spending too much time on this :D
15:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that assumes a spec
15:44<TrueBrain>orudge: great minds think alike :)
15:45<andythenorth>ok let's close a bunch more tickets, and see what happens
15:45<andythenorth>worst is, re-open
15:47<@orudge>TrueBrain: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6707 <-- quick, pull it before it breaks again ;)
15:47<@orudge>or squash and merge perhaps if preferred
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6562 <-- if this is for "GRFv9", then why go through the lengths of making it an extended byte, and not a word?
15:47<TrueBrain>orudge: lol .. seems the PR was not the issue
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>"extended byte" is for situations where you want to do the least disturbance possible for existing GRFs
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>but if you bump GRF-version, that seems a dismissible goal
15:49<TrueBrain>now the PR really is correct ...
15:49<TrueBrain>ah .. I was hitting GitHub caches
15:49<TrueBrain>nevermind :D
15:49<TrueBrain>lalalala
15:49<TrueBrain>nothing happened
15:49<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's also for consistency
15:49<andythenorth>railtype stuff again https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5006
15:49<andythenorth>and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4582
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15:50<frosch123>and for limiting work for updating stuff
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: maybe GRFv9 should get rid of "extended byte" and replace all of them with word?
15:50<andythenorth>peter1138: also you had a patch for that https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6155
15:51<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that sounds stupid, since the next thing would readd them :p
15:52<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #5695 LIES LIES LIES
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: well, not remove remove, but replace all existing uses?
15:52<andythenorth>TrueBrain: such lol
15:52<frosch123>still only causes noise without improving stuff
15:52<andythenorth>nearly at 340
15:53<TrueBrain>300 as goal for the end of the weekend :)
15:53<TrueBrain>or no more "from Flyspray" labels
15:53<frosch123>i think grfv8 did not change anything on a binary level, only on semantical level
15:53<frosch123>changin stuff on binary level breaks all tools
15:53<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause had a patch for this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5487
15:53<andythenorth>still want it open? o_O
15:54<andythenorth>can it be a PR?
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>i can't comment on how finished that was
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>the comments sound like there were a bunch of open philosophy questions
15:55<andythenorth>frosch123: would BGT get L5? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5132 o_O
15:55<TrueBrain>I guess andythenorth is asking: do you want to make a PR out of it and see it through, or shall we close it? :)
15:55<andythenorth>what TrueBrain said
15:55<andythenorth>PR, or move on
15:55<andythenorth>all of us :)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>i'd have to dig a little deeper to decide that
15:56<frosch123>andythenorth: see, prime example for a crap task, "expose L5"
15:56<andythenorth>frosch123: I close it?
15:56<andythenorth>pikka won't be offended
15:56-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@78.96.209.89] has quit []
15:56<TrueBrain>andythenorth: closed issues about musicsets and blabla
15:56<frosch123>anyway, roads do not have this problem
15:57<andythenorth>ok 337 issues
15:57<frosch123>andythenorth: what is the relation betwen 5132 and 5487?
15:57<andythenorth>oops, that's because I pasted a transcript
15:58<andythenorth>GH detected the link
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe 5132 should rather be a railtype property that switches the layout?
15:58<frosch123>i see :)
15:58<andythenorth>I clean it
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>that would avoid it becoming a variable with all the performance nightmares
15:59<andythenorth>are railtypes on a roadmap?
15:59<andythenorth>'a' not 'the'
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>so you could have a list of N sprites with individual rails, or M sprites with combined junctions
15:59<TrueBrain>you keep asking for something that doesnt exist :P
15:59<andythenorth>my question is carefullly worded
15:59<andythenorth>to produce the answer 'no'
16:00<andythenorth>we don't need much more control over railtypes, it's barely seen
16:00<TrueBrain>337!
16:00<andythenorth>wrong
16:00<andythenorth>335
16:00<andythenorth>!337
16:01<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I *do* have a patch for that... http://git.fuzzle.org/openttd.git/commit/?h=railtype_nocombine&id=38a09cd7fb388cc43b47960393821c8625b50c99
16:01<peter1138>(Yeah, 5 years ago)
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause>mind you, that will only help with layering the ballast/rails properly, and not allow anything like smoother curves or stuff
16:03<TrueBrain>333!
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 333!
16:04<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>damn :p
16:04<andythenorth>I want to TMWFTLB this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6177
16:04<andythenorth>but actually I dunno
16:04<andythenorth>we allow many other kinds of fine-grained cost
16:05<andythenorth>but doesn't it require a huge mapping?
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't sound like much work
16:05<TrueBrain>it sounds really nice to have that andythenorth
16:05<andythenorth>but it needs to know all known railtypes
16:05<andythenorth>in all grfs
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>no, it must be a callback
16:05<andythenorth>what is cost of MGLV -> ELRL?
16:05<TrueBrain>accept it for now?
16:05<LordAro>what's the shortcut to crash ottd?
16:05<andythenorth>or MTRO -> ELRL
16:05<andythenorth>LordAro: reload one of my grfs :P
16:05<peter1138>alt-f4
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>that gets the new railtype as index to the RTT in var10 or something
16:06<LordAro>< andythenorth> something about grfs
16:06<TrueBrain>LordAro: CTRL+0?
16:06<TrueBrain>if that wasnt removed
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>and returns the cost
16:06<andythenorth>but it's not a cost, it's a differential
16:06<andythenorth>seems insane to me
16:06<LordAro>TrueBrain: i should probably check if it compiles first
16:06<andythenorth>as bad as the vehicle refit cost FAIL
16:07<TrueBrain>GitHub doesnt always store my label changes .. that is annoying
16:07<andythenorth>it does, but you have to wait
16:07<andythenorth>like...seconds :P
16:07<andythenorth>or so I found, YMMV
16:07<andythenorth>"change label, close tab" fails a lot
16:07<andythenorth>I love how async is used to make it 'realtime'
16:07<andythenorth>but it's not
16:07<frosch123>LordAro: killall -6 openttd
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>the callback would return the total conversion cost, replacing the default "remove and rebuild" calculation completely
16:08<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: put a spec on the issue? o_O
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>and the callback author can decide what to do with unknown railtypes
16:08<TrueBrain>LordAro: a pull request for you! :) (more issues with realpath)
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>"callback failed" will revert to the original calculation
16:09<LordAro>TrueBrain: i just saw
16:09<LordAro>apparently realpath was a real bad idea
16:09<TrueBrain>and our first non-us PR! :D
16:09<TrueBrain>I am really surprised by that tbh ..
16:09<peter1138>Ah, andythenorth already closed the one I have a patch for...
16:09<TrueBrain>but his solution is nice LordAro :)
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but i can't because i don't have a github account :p
16:09<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that is solvable
16:09<TrueBrain>peter1138: if we keep issues open you have a patch for, we never close anything :(
16:09<andythenorth>even I have one
16:09<andythenorth>and I don't even use email :P
16:09<LordAro>TrueBrain: shame it failed the check :p
16:10<andythenorth>want me to try compiling with it?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of email, how should i bother changing my email on the openttd.org account?
16:10<peter1138>https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commit/a84f45b654d5285e2e8b928629a7167aaef70821 < still applies...
16:11<peter1138>But I don't know if it works, becuase I'm not an artiste.
16:11<andythenorth>need a pikka
16:11<LordAro>TrueBrain: i'm not sure anything in config.lib has an bash specific stuff
16:11<LordAro>not sure if we want to break that...
16:12<LordAro>( ${1#./} is a bashism)
16:12<TrueBrain>ah, yes
16:12<TrueBrain>*shrug*
16:12<TrueBrain>cmake!
16:12<LordAro>blurgh
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>ok, so account.openttd.org doesn't actually allow me to change my email :p
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>"This page is currently incomplete, but it will be finished in the very near feature."
16:13<TrueBrain>andythenorth: already 72 things classified as "real" bug .. oef :P
16:13<TrueBrain>200 is going to be hard
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence has been there for what? 5 years? :p
16:14<TrueBrain>11 years
16:14<TrueBrain>I have 3 emails about it
16:14<andythenorth>oef
16:14<TrueBrain>(tells you how often people want to ...)
16:14<andythenorth>yeah the website needs work
16:14<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: email info@ with your request
16:14<peter1138>cmake smells. I dislike it.
16:14<andythenorth>but first...github :)
16:14<andythenorth>peter1138: you could make this untrue? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6517#issuecomment-380930555
16:14<TrueBrain>gratz orudge! :D
16:15<@orudge>TrueBrain: Hurrah, it worked ;)
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16:15<andythenorth>331
16:15<frosch123>TrueBrain: so how was the expeience with "update branch"?
16:15<TrueBrain>VERY BAD
16:16<TrueBrain>it creates a merge commit
16:16<TrueBrain>which commit-checker denies
16:16<TrueBrain>and things go wrong real quick from there :D
16:16<TrueBrain>I was hoping it rebased .. but no
16:16<frosch123>apparently 6702 is not auto-rebaseable :)
16:16<andythenorth>this one looks like a legit quality issue https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5534
16:16<andythenorth>BUT
16:16<andythenorth>forums can't agree on correct outcome
16:16<andythenorth>so eh
16:17<peter1138>You close a ticket then give me a link? o_O
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i'd assume to that 3 emails is added another few who tried but didn't bother mailing and just gave up
16:18<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro; nice work :)
16:18<Wolf01>andythenorth: easy, all engines play the sound
16:18<TrueBrain>andythenorth: 6 years and no consensus? Sounds like a closed issue to me :)
16:19<andythenorth>well there was a consensus for option 4
16:19<andythenorth>but then it got derailed as usual in forums
16:19<andythenorth>so I close
16:19<TrueBrain>that makes 330; good enough for today :)
16:19<TrueBrain>bit worries about the amount of real bugs :)
16:19<TrueBrain>well, 23 still in triage
16:20<TrueBrain>so it might be not that bad :)
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: mail sent
16:20<andythenorth>we can get to 329
16:20<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I hope someone will pick it up soon for you :)
16:20<TrueBrain>not sure who of the readers of info@ can
16:20<andythenorth>I'm sure this is just bolllocks :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5869
16:20<TrueBrain>I trust your opinion about GRFs :)
16:21<frosch123>hmm, i don't get it
16:21<andythenorth>TrueBrain: seriously, I wouldn't :P
16:21<frosch123>what issue does gh have with 6702?
16:21<TrueBrain>it is not up-to-date
16:21<andythenorth>I am too close to my own grfs
16:21<TrueBrain>there is a new commit on master
16:21<@Rubidium>regarding saving the password in the config; if you want seeds to change between servers, then you can't store it hashed. You could store it encrypted, but then you need to store the (decrypt) key as well... or derive the decrypt key from a password the user has to enter (which defeats the purpose of saving)
16:21<andythenorth>to judge what other people want
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>now different question... i have a cheap-o-free email provider, who apparently limits the amount of recipients of outgoing mail. anyone have a clue how i can set my mail client to split the mail locally and then send multiple?
16:22<frosch123>TrueBrain: why is the button named "rebase" then?
16:22<TrueBrain>frosch123: in case you do allow non-up-to-date
16:22<TrueBrain>I have been trying to tell you the ups and downs of that earlier :)
16:22<LordAro>frosch123: https://i.imgur.com/1BDOEUQ.png how does that look? (Not including s/pending/recent/)
16:22<andythenorth>329
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16:23<frosch123>LordAro: are those all, or the most recent n?
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>i'm assuming that's how long the news history is?
16:23<LordAro>TrueBrain: re jenkins output, can you specify a little message about why it failed? "This commit cannot be built" is not all that helpful when it's just the commit message it's failed on
16:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: the current plugin cannot do that
16:24<LordAro>frosch123: it's just listing everything in _oldest_news
16:24<TrueBrain>I would really wish I could let it report on each step
16:24<LordAro>:/
16:24<TrueBrain>feel free to make a patch for it :)
16:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: I suggest we let go of the up-to-date requirement on merging; the requirement is still there if CI is runniing anyway
16:24<andythenorth>we can get to 300
16:24<TrueBrain>so when the PR is created, it has to be up-to-date
16:25<TrueBrain>when merging ... it just needs to be clean
16:25<TrueBrain>(master might fail from time to time, but .. we fix that then :P)
16:25<frosch123>TrueBrain: yep, wanted to suggest the same :)
16:25<TrueBrain>we have to fiddle with this a bit :)
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: did you consider that the PR might have been sitting there for a year (or 5, or 20)?
16:25<TrueBrain>frosch123: there you go
16:26<frosch123>LordAro: i wondered whether the crashlog would be thousands of lines long, but i guess there is nothing wrong with it being long
16:26<LordAro>i foresee a need for a CONTRIBUTING file in the repo
16:26<TrueBrain>LordAro: yes
16:26<TrueBrain>can you make a start with that?
16:26<andythenorth>that would be good
16:26<andythenorth>the Bootstrap one I posted is not bad IMHO
16:27<andythenorth>https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#pull-requests
16:27<TrueBrain>frosch123: looking good
16:27<LordAro>frosch123: there is RemoveOldNewsItems which i think prunes the list
16:27<frosch123>what?
16:28<LordAro>no idea how often though
16:28<LordAro>ah, every month
16:28<TrueBrain>and frosch123 bursts into the room and yells: WHAT? to noone in particular :D
16:29<TrueBrain>frosch123: fixed all branches to follow the same requirement
16:29<frosch123>what is looking good? me?
16:29<andythenorth>and me
16:29<andythenorth>for my age
16:29<frosch123>ah, rebase
16:29<TrueBrain>you? ALWAYS! but the merge always went good :)
16:29<andythenorth>this is weird https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6586
16:29<TrueBrain>andythenorth: not only for your age ;)
16:29<andythenorth>you flatter
16:29<andythenorth>327
16:29<TrueBrain>close 6586 already
16:30<andythenorth>peter1138: so NRT? o_O
16:30<Wolf01>How random
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: looks like it's expending the height of the line, but not the height of the underlying panel
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>expanding
16:31<andythenorth>I have no idea how to repro
16:31<andythenorth>LordAro: reminds me of your avatar http://forums.accuweather.com/uploads/post-13204-1394292647.gif
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>well with the development version of DBSet, of course :p
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: maybe you can try CETS?
16:31<andythenorth>is that distributed?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it might have vehicles similar to that
16:32<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I closed 6586
16:32<andythenorth>ok
16:32<LordAro>andythenorth: that gif is ancient :p
16:32<andythenorth>I wish I'd made it
16:32<andythenorth>I like that it goes on...and on
16:33<LordAro>glx: can you confirm (on #6708) whether mingw has readlink?
16:34<andythenorth>@seen samu
16:34<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: samu was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 7 hours, 31 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Samu> :(
16:34<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6647#issuecomment-380935829
16:34<TrueBrain>I really need to make a mingw docker I see ..
16:34<TrueBrain>I? SOMEONE!
16:34<andythenorth>seriously I should read src
16:34<LordAro>YOU IS SOMEONE
16:34<andythenorth>hth would autorenew be adding implicit orders?
16:34<andythenorth>autorenew is batshit, but not that batshit
16:35<TrueBrain>yeah, but that bug seems like really broken
16:35<TrueBrain>GitHub is weird ... the history shows I never added 'bug' label, yet it is there :D
16:36<LordAro>github's caches get confused sometimes
16:36<andythenorth>TrueBrain: it's an EBKC
16:37<TrueBrain>LordAro: I guess we can accept 6708 .. for mingw there is already special code; we can check that at a later moment?
16:38<LordAro>TrueBrain: yeah, seems reasonable
16:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: you can add: This fixes #5722 in your commit message; than it autocloses! :D
16:39<LordAro>"OpenTTD 20180412--g192770e6" Hrm
16:39<Wolf01>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6707 would it be possible to do something like this for VS?
16:39<andythenorth>I would sack this, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/994
16:39<LordAro>TrueBrain: i decided it wasn't strictly relevant to that issue, so I added it in the PR instead :p
16:39<andythenorth>just join a company ^^
16:40<TrueBrain>andythenorth: again, check labels :P
16:40<andythenorth>I did
16:40<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I do think this is a bug that needs addressing :)
16:40<andythenorth>I left my comment :)
16:40<TrueBrain>its weird to not have it
16:40<andythenorth>there's quality and there's quality :P
16:40<TrueBrain>or someone has to explain it to me :P
16:41<andythenorth>it's weird not to have world peace
16:41<TrueBrain>also sounds like 5 minutes work
16:41<andythenorth>anyway, I left it open
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16:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so, i can sorta reproduce 6586 with CETS and the vehicle "VT 11.5" (introduced ca. 1957)
16:41<andythenorth>you can? :)
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't know how uptodate my openttd is though
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>says r27604
16:41<andythenorth>got a GH log in yet? o_O
16:41<TrueBrain>tnx again LordAro :) (for 6708 :))
16:42<andythenorth>frosch123: I think this one's a tarpit https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/1423
16:42<TrueBrain>CI is a bit busy :P
16:42<andythenorth>it means converting tiles to water, on build
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think it's an issue with the window drawing order
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and there might also be an obiwan in the window offsets
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16:43<andythenorth>but what kind of water? Sea, at height level > 1?
16:43<andythenorth>or river, but some magic river
16:43<andythenorth>and then if industry closes, what?
16:44<TrueBrain>LordAro: argh, I dont think he understood me/us :)
16:44<TrueBrain>now we do need glx to approve :)
16:44<frosch123>andythenorth: i think some of that was implemented
16:44<frosch123>industries preserve the water class
16:44<frosch123>and when they draw the flat sea tile, ottd replaces it with river or canal water
16:45<frosch123>but there is likely not enough control for *all* cases
16:45<andythenorth>is the issue clear?
16:46<andythenorth>George wants to set the water bit when the industry is built
16:46<andythenorth>on any arbitrary tile
16:46<andythenorth>at any height level
16:46<frosch123>well, newlandscape stuff :)
16:46<andythenorth>I think it's nuts
16:47<andythenorth>he could just build the hotel with water tiles in it
16:47<andythenorth>which might be what you were proposing
16:47<andythenorth>then they build over the river, and provide $whatever sprites
16:49<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #6633 too me it sounds evil/annoying to fix this .. what do you think?
16:49<andythenorth>I think we have 624 issues :)
16:49<TrueBrain>ty glx! That is serious good news :)
16:50<TrueBrain>wtf GitHub ... fails again to fetch the git hash
16:50<andythenorth>6633 sounds evil, but like a proper bug :(
16:50<andythenorth>if the report is correct, cargo monitor only detects cargo going to a station, not an industry
16:51<TrueBrain>yes ... but it sounds like it is annoying if it would to an industry
16:51<TrueBrain>this gives a tiny bit more room
16:51<andythenorth>https://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.4.3/classGSCargoMonitor.html#2c9aca95cd2e90c0b5fcc62e0dba5e51
16:51<TrueBrain>but okay .. bug it is
16:51<andythenorth>spec says it's an industry :(
16:51<andythenorth>report might be EBKC
16:51<TrueBrain>okay, mister GitHub, why are you so weird ....
16:52<andythenorth>hmm, patch suggests that it's a bug
16:52<TrueBrain>the GUI shows another hash ...
16:52<TrueBrain>EBKC?
16:52<andythenorth>error between keyboard and chair
16:52<TrueBrain>PEBKAC :)
16:52<andythenorth>I shortened it
16:52<TrueBrain>.....
16:52<andythenorth>save the world by typing less
16:53<andythenorth>I totally agree with this one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4711
16:53<+glx>nice all PR are rejected ;)
16:53<andythenorth>but I have had kind of 'meh' discussing it
16:53<andythenorth>it's never going to get approved even if patched?
16:55<TrueBrain>do you expect it in the next 6 months ?
16:55<andythenorth>nope
16:55<andythenorth>2020
16:55<TrueBrain>there is your answer
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16:57<andythenorth>oops, I had a patch https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3958
16:58<TrueBrain>I do not get why GitHub fails with PRs
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>so, i don't know what these lines were meant to do https://paste.openttdcoop.org/povrpngg5
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>but they both don't work right and they cause #6586
17:01<andythenorth>does blame tells us anything?
17:01<andythenorth>I can't find the rev
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>i *think* it was meant to hide the light and dark grey panel borders to make the lines seem as one
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>but for that it must be 2 high instead of 1
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>and it must be done before the train sprites are drawn
17:02<LordAro>pretty sure findversion.sh:72 shouldn't be doing the second sed command
17:03<andythenorth>I don't understand the goal of that change
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17:05<Eddi|zuHause>well _my_ change was just to remove these broken lines
17:05<LordAro>TrueBrain: you want to give #6708 jenkins build a poke? i imagine it tried building it when it was half way through being rebased
17:05<TrueBrain>no
17:05<TrueBrain>Github is in fail
17:06<TrueBrain>the refs is not correct
17:06<andythenorth>trying to find a commit that touched them
17:06<TrueBrain>via git I cannot pull that commit
17:07<LordAro>how interesting
17:07<TrueBrain>I really dont get it
17:07<andythenorth>apparently https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/8a8bf6c53dfd4dcf0515526c5f9f4d0b7dcfa839
17:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ^
17:07<TrueBrain>can you verify you see the same? refs/pull/6708/head
17:07<TrueBrain>should show 4febcc4
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that seems right
17:08<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2923
17:08<TrueBrain>funny, refs/pull/6708/merge does return the right chain
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so anyway, i'd move the GfxFillRect to before the loop that draws the train sprites, and then fill the whole rect instead of individual lines
17:10<TrueBrain>LordAro: his commit is not on top of master; but that shouldnt be the reason ... really weird
17:12<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6586#issuecomment-380945346
17:12<andythenorth>TrueBrain: 320 issues, time to quit? o_O
17:12<TrueBrain>yeah
17:12<andythenorth>I have read some of these about 50 times in last 12 months :P
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: something along the lines of https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkenopste but with the /**/ parts replaced with the correct y values
17:12<TrueBrain>we are slowlygetting there :)
17:13<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you need to do a PR or gist :D
17:13<andythenorth>I am git-paste monkey for eddi today :)
17:13<andythenorth>copy from irc, paste to GH
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that is not ready yet
17:13<andythenorth>GH issues dislike pasted code
17:13<andythenorth>is that what gist is for?
17:13<andythenorth>snippets?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>" * @param y The y coordinate" <-- well is that the top or bottom y coordinate?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>also how does vscoll_pos work?
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause>maybe someone more knowledgeable about gui code should finish this
17:21<Wolf01>y + text_y_offset
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17:22<Eddi|zuHause>the surrounding code does some weird - operations on y
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>"y - line_height * vscroll_pos + sprite_y_offset + pitch"
17:23<Wolf01>Yes, sorry, py is y + text_y_offset, then the rest should be the same
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>so the -line_height*vscroll_pos is adjusting for hidden lines that are scrolled outside?
17:23<Wolf01>Yes
17:25<TrueBrain>okay, asked GitHub why PRs are out of date
17:26<andythenorth>316
17:27<TrueBrain>nice andythenorth :)
17:28<andythenorth>315
17:28<andythenorth>I killed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6074
17:29<TrueBrain>lol, timeout while building OpenTTD
17:29<TrueBrain>that is new :)
17:29<LordAro>it really doesn't like that PR :p
17:29<TrueBrain>I really dont like that Jenkins plugin
17:29<TrueBrain>but not for now
17:30<TrueBrain>the clang takes more IO priority over GCC
17:30<TrueBrain>so the GCC dockers can timeout :)
17:31<TrueBrain>I see andythenorth finally found a way to say: NO!
17:31<andythenorth>I said no 50 ways last year
17:31<andythenorth>I just needed a new one
17:31<andythenorth>got bored
17:31<TrueBrain>going to assign 2 more cores to that machines .. that should help
17:32<TrueBrain>owh, it hs 2 cores
17:33<Wolf01>Also, 'night, I'm sleeping on the keyboard while playing
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17:33<TrueBrain>sleep well
17:33<TrueBrain>dammit
17:33<andythenorth>can I get to 310? o_O
17:33<TrueBrain>dont do too much at once
17:33<TrueBrain>it makes you mute to certain things :)
17:36<andythenorth>there's always 're-open'
17:36<andythenorth>people want a feature, they need to make a case
17:36<andythenorth>I don't just dump in tickets and wait
17:36<andythenorth>I make a case, help with spec, help with test grf, patch nml etc
17:36<andythenorth>so I get ponies
17:37<TrueBrain>they cannot reopen andythenorth :)
17:37<andythenorth>they can ask me
17:37<TrueBrain>yup :)
17:37<TrueBrain>DorpsGek owns the issues :D
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, i hit a roadblock... i can't move the "separate sprite row" bool before drawing the sprites, because it's not known how wide the sprites are before drawing them
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>and something in me doesn't want to draw the sprites, erase them, and draw them again
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17:41<TrueBrain>wtf ... now Jenkins is acting up ...
17:41<TrueBrain>random IO issues
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i won't be able to finish this "proper" version
17:43<andythenorth>:P
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17:47<TrueBrain>I changed the commit message ... hope I am not being punished :D
17:47<TrueBrain>pfew
17:47<TrueBrain>okay, this nightmare is over; now time for some sleep
17:47<TrueBrain>I wanted to watch a movie .. I kinda failed :D
17:48<TrueBrain>311 andythenorth; not bad :D
17:48<andythenorth>this is more dumb timetable stuff https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3581
17:48<TrueBrain>and good night :)
17:48<andythenorth>timetables have so much bbad :)
17:48<andythenorth>GN TB
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17:49<andythenorth>310
17:49<andythenorth>and bed
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