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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-13

---Logopened Fri Apr 13 00:00:27 2018
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01:43<andythenorth>o/
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03:54<Arveen>happy Friday the 13th everyone
04:01-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
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04:05<Pikka>o/
04:05<andythenorth>lo Pikka
04:05<Pikka>lo!
04:05<andythenorth>I closed some of your issues :)
04:05<andythenorth>you are now issue free :)
04:06<Pikka>says you
04:06<Pikka>what issues did I have?
04:06<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4799
04:07<Pikka>oh dear
04:07<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5471
04:08<Pikka>yes
04:08<andythenorth>there are also a bunch of newgrf ponies
04:08<andythenorth>from George and Michael
04:08<andythenorth>which I don't know whether to close or not
04:09<andythenorth>fact is, opening a ticket doesn't get the feature added
04:10<Pikka>true so
04:11<__ln__>speaking of inflation, does it still work the way that if i choose to start my game in e.g. 2050, all vehicles cost a billion but the the initial loan is still £10k? (and maximum loan is barely enough to buy one vehicle)
04:11<Pikka>I don't think it ever worked that way
04:12<Pikka>unless you're playing with a newgrf that makes vehicles cost a billion in 2050
04:12<__ln__>i do think it worked somewhat that way
04:12<__ln__>and obviously i didn't mean a literal billion, but "a lot" compared to how much money you can loan.
04:12<Pikka>inflation starts from the year you start the game. if you start in 2050 the initial loan won't be inflated, but neither will the vehicle costs
04:13<__ln__>gotta check how it works when i get home
04:32<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5996
04:32<andythenorth>^ I kind of agree with that, but eh, unix shell doesn't provide confirmation of changes
04:32<andythenorth>'worse is better'
04:33<andythenorth>'reload_newgrfs' -> "15 newgrfs have been reloaded"
04:33<andythenorth>seems redundant really
04:38<peter1138>Should reply with failure if not successful
04:39<peter1138>set without a parameter should be invalid
04:39<peter1138>should be get parameter for that
04:39<peter1138>mind you it's not an api is it
04:40<andythenorth>keep or close?
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04:42<@planetmaker>oh, we have all issues imported from flyspray. That's great :)
04:44<peter1138>planetmaker, yes!
04:44<peter1138>and the repo!
04:45<peter1138>welcome ;p
04:45<peter1138>Of course, andythenorth's been closing them willynilly ;)
04:45<andythenorth>Truebrain too :P
04:48<andythenorth>peter1138: enhanced bouys? o_O Or just better docks? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4792
04:48<andythenorth>docks on water :P
05:11<andythenorth>if I click 'go to depot' could a train re-evaluate its path? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3000
05:11<andythenorth>I work around that behaviour with signal placement, but it's annoying ^
05:12<andythenorth>manually reversing the train causes a path evaluation obvs.
05:12<LordAro>at what point do you just close all of them? :p
05:14<andythenorth>when they're done
05:14<andythenorth>or invalid
05:16<andythenorth>I think there are about 100 which are legit *and* somebody might actually do them
05:19<peter1138>andythenorth, just better docks. Buoys as docks is stupid.
05:19<andythenorth>I think so
05:19<peter1138>Point #3 is interesting though.
05:19<andythenorth>Yes
05:20<andythenorth>but docks also
05:20<andythenorth>1 tile docks
05:20<peter1138>Sure.
05:20<andythenorth>build on water, anywhere
05:20<andythenorth>no sprites
05:20<andythenorth>no newgrf spec needed
05:20<peter1138>Anywhere... hmm, not quite.
05:20<andythenorth>well
05:20<andythenorth>not on water that has other things on it
05:21<andythenorth>hmm
05:21<andythenorth>actually my idea is terrible
05:21<peter1138>I think a dock needs to be next to land. Enforcing that with just a single tile is tricky.
05:21<peter1138>And it needs to be visible.
05:21<andythenorth>I think it would be nice to build docks at sea, for fishing grounds and so on
05:21<andythenorth>or it might just be tedious :P
05:21<peter1138>Don't fishing grounds have built in docks?
05:21<andythenorth>they do, but they suck
05:21<andythenorth>heliport
05:22<peter1138>Heliport?
05:22<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5682
05:22<andythenorth>helicopter fishing bothers people
05:23<peter1138>So a fishing grounds can have helicopters "landing" there?
05:23<peter1138>o_O
05:23<andythenorth>yes
05:23<andythenorth>it's the spec
05:23<peter1138>Fix the spec.
05:23<andythenorth>also accepts passengers by default
05:23<andythenorth>so I can deliver pax to fishing ground
05:23<andythenorth>like in places where they kill political prisoners that way
05:24<andythenorth>charming
05:24<andythenorth>just let player build the station I think
05:24<peter1138>Do they just use the 18h tile and get the same behaviour?
05:24<andythenorth>yes
05:24<andythenorth>steel mill doesn't have built in stations eh
05:24<peter1138>I guess fixing the spec won't fix the existing newgrfs.
05:24<peter1138>Hmm
05:24<andythenorth>I like 1 tile docks, built on water
05:25<andythenorth>but then...how does newbie player get harbour graphics?
05:25<andythenorth>it's logical, but stupid also
05:26<peter1138>Fix the spec to allow fishing grounds etc to not have a helipad/passenger bullshit
05:26<peter1138>Then get the newgrfs fixed eventually.
05:27<andythenorth>there's something where having a station shared between all companies messes up cdist too
05:27<andythenorth>I'll look
05:28<peter1138>Probably.
05:28<andythenorth>can't find it :P
05:28<peter1138>That's "relatively" "simple", "just" tag cargo chains with company id in stations.
05:28<peter1138>Disallows cargo sharing then.
05:29<peter1138>Ish.
05:29<peter1138>Dunno how you'd treat cargo production.
05:29<peter1138>I guess station rating is per-station as well, not per company @ station.
05:29<peter1138>So oilrigs are broken already :D
05:30<andythenorth>somewhat
05:30<andythenorth>it's all terrible :)
05:30<andythenorth>and yet it's fun
05:31<andythenorth>__ln__: is this still? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4449
05:34<__ln__>andythenorth: unless the patch by minexew has been applied since, i assume it still is. though i haven't tried ottd in a while, especially not in fullscreen.
05:35<andythenorth>thanks
05:36<__ln__>i could look at it this weekend, and see if i could improve the two points i brought up myself
05:37<andythenorth>:)
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05:41<arahael>What are some good rail designs I should look at? I have a really, really long two-way track... And I have traffic jams. :(
05:42<arahael>I'm thinking of making four-track tracks, with the inner two bi-directional, rather than the classic two-track tracks.
05:42<andythenorth>I like one-track-per-train :D
05:42<andythenorth>works really well
05:42<andythenorth>quite a lot of space needed :P
05:42<arahael>What's the fun in that? ;)
05:43<arahael>I'm trying to make *every* coal station service the one station.
05:43<andythenorth>fair
05:44<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Main_Page
05:44<arahael>I forget how big I made it... I think it's 1024x1024, but I've only worked the one edge.
05:44<arahael>Thanks, will check that out!
05:44<andythenorth>can get lost in there :)
05:48<arahael>Yeah, I'm looking for the track designs. :)
05:50<Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there's something where having a station shared between all companies messes up cdist too <-- cdist should have no problem with shared stations. just transfer payment is broken
05:51<arahael>Only one company in this came. :)
05:51<arahael>*game
05:51<arahael>My big problem is that the simple two-line track just jams.
05:51<arahael>Frequently.
05:52<arahael>So the trains are always stopping.... Then they get to *half* their max speed before they stop again.
05:56<peter1138>Is it worth redirecting https://bugs.openttd.org/task/XXXX to https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/XXXX?
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06:00<Eddi|zuHause>might need an alternate way to read the archived flyspray then?
06:01*andythenorth biab
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06:10<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, isn't everything (in the openttd project) migrated?
06:11<peter1138>I guess it is easier to read, but.
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>dunno
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06:23*arahael wonders if a 100% rating is possible (for cargo, at a train station)
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>temporary with advertising
06:25<arahael>I ignore the towns entirely in this game.
06:25<arahael>Can I make trains unload faster?
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>no
06:26<andythenorth>you can with newgrf
06:26<andythenorth>but it's not just click a button :)
06:28<arahael>I was hoping that there was something in the game that let me. :) Like perhaps, shorter trains.
06:29<arahael>With this particular line, my absolute bottleneck is the unloading speed.
06:29<andythenorth>what's your drop off station look like? o_O
06:29<arahael>(Only one track in the station - it's a 7-track station, but I can only reserve one)
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>as long as the train is not longer than the platform, train length has no influence
06:29<arahael>andythenorth: The tracks fan out and fan in.
06:30<arahael>(For the most part)
06:30<andythenorth>is it ro-ro?
06:30<arahael>What's that?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: before you're thinking about quad-tracking your line, you should think about optimizing your station. a single track can easily fill 3 platforms
06:31<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, this close to the station I have a naive quad-tracked line. Fans out to 6 platforms.
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes even more
06:31<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Ro-Ro
06:31<arahael>Perhaps I should add more tracks to the station, I'm not in classic TTD anymore.
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>depending on how fast your trains accelerate out of the station
06:32<arahael>Ah, yes, it's a ro-ro station.
06:32<arahael>Hang on, let me make a screenshot.
06:33<arahael>https://www.dropbox.com/s/9943ingyt9zqsp9/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.32.51.png?dl=0
06:34<arahael>Sorry, let me try again, without the stupid finance. :)
06:35<arahael>https://www.dropbox.com/s/ippebk1n4nafvj2/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.34.48.png?dl=0 <-- Much better.
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>that depot and tight curves are surely a bottleneck
06:36<arahael>Which one?
06:36<arahael>I didn't realise the curves were that tight?
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>all of them
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>do you have original or realistic acceleration?
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06:37<arahael>I haven't changed it, so probably original?
06:37<arahael>I basically downloaded openttd, and got to playing. :)
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>i suggest realistic, original has this annoying habit that every tiny 1 tile climb slows down your trains massively. but with realistic you really need to look at your curve radius
06:38<arahael>Hmm, interesting.
06:39<arahael>Looks like the default setting is realistic, afterall.
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>where a "curve" is anything where your train turns more than once in the same direction
06:39<arahael>And what's a "tight" curve?
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06:39<arahael>Eg, \/ would be a tight curve, but \_/ is not?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>a "tight" curve is anything where your train slows down below its top speed
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>could be \_/, could be \___/ or even more
06:41<arahael>At what point would it start to slow down?
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>there's a table in the code that maps distance between curve pieces to speed limits
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have it memorized, and it's different for trains and maglev
06:42<arahael>I just tested that out.. Made one of those curves far bigger - it makes a big difference.
06:44<arahael>I think I'm going to play with that, focusing on getting the train the **** out of the station.
06:52<andythenorth>hmm
06:52<andythenorth>flashing rear light for trains
06:53<andythenorth>can't use the red on-off palette cycle for crossings
06:53<andythenorth>shame
06:53<andythenorth>can I detect if 'full animation' is off ?
06:53<andythenorth>looks like display_options ANIMATION
06:55<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: How's this one? https://www.dropbox.com/s/7u7idw2vmb1fxpf/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.54.02.png?dl=0
06:55<arahael>I guess I now need to optimise the loading a bit more.
06:55<arahael>But it's keeping up with demand anyway, now.
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>that looks fine, but now i would move the station away from the border and extend the other side too
06:57<arahael>How many tiles should I shift it?
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>and add more tracks while at it
06:58<arahael>It's not really the bottlenck.
06:58<arahael>The bottlenck is my network jamming.
07:00<arahael>I've connected every coal station on this side (edge, really) of the map: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lonbq0g7vum7i27/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2020.59.47.png?dl=0
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>i would definitely remove the S-curve from the entry
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>i.e move the bridges to the left, and the station to the right, until it's straight
07:02<arahael>How many tiles of the power station do I need to cover?
07:02<arahael>Just the one?
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>use the ? tool to find out which tiles accept coal
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>you need to cover one tile that accepts coal
07:03<arahael>So just one tile in the power station? (The ? tool doesn't really seem to show anything useful?)
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>some tiles don't accept coal
07:04<arahael>Ah, I see!
07:04<arahael>The dialogue changes completely.
07:05<arahael>Most of the tiles didn't accept coal, so I assumed that was the regular dialog. :)
07:05<arahael>Looks like I can shift it by 5.
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>some industries are a bit weird that way
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's even worse for oil refineries
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>because there's only like 2 tiles in that giant industry that actually accept oil
07:14<andythenorth>can I use a remap sprite in a layer to knock out a colour?
07:15<andythenorth>e.g. one of the pinks like 226?
07:15<andythenorth>I want to use false colour to aid drawing, then remove it
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that should work
07:16<andythenorth>I can do it in PIL trivially, but eh
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, i don't know about layers, but in general, i did successfully remap a magic pink to a real colour before
07:18<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites
07:18<andythenorth>I need to pass a specific palette
07:18<andythenorth>hmm
07:18<andythenorth>I can do this in PIL in 3-4 lines
07:18<andythenorth>but then I don't learn much
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, nmlc will reject pngs with wrong palette
07:19<andythenorth>nah I mean in the switch expression
07:19<andythenorth>there's an option to remap there
07:20<andythenorth>not sure how palettes are defined
07:20<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gex9ndw8glctie/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2021.19.42.png?dl=0 It's quite a bit better, actually.
07:21<andythenorth>arahael: it's much less fun, but boats have infinite capacity :D
07:22<andythenorth>until you run out of CPU power :P
07:22<arahael>Heh, yeah: They can even overlap each other, I know - but I don't do non-fun. :)
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: alright, as next optimisation step, i would consider removing the X-crossings between parallel tracks. the game is not good with balancing choices between tracks, so they do more harm than good usually
07:24<arahael>Oh, wow.
07:24<arahael>Are there any alternatives, or just flat out remove them?
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07:25<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: if you have a quad main track, you should allow the trains to make a choice when entering the main line, but once they made this choice, they should commit to it
07:25<arahael>My bright idea was that in the event of a jam, they could switch to the free track. :(
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but like people weaving through traffic, that might look like they get through faster, but they cause ripple effects in the traffic that slows it down for everyone
07:26<arahael>*sigh*.
07:28<arahael>So how would I get them to commit to the right track to start with? Remember, this track goes all the way along the edge. (Not quad all the way out... Only the tiny bit nearest the station is quad, at the moment)
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>managing this kind of flexible traffic correctly is really hard
07:29<arahael>It just jammed again, though on the quad track, it's fairly obvious why it jams. Resolving the jam on the much longer dual-track is much harder: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8k4lpbrr5qivx85/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2021.28.28.png?dl=0
07:29<arahael>You'll see how I've got the inner tracks fully bi-directional, and the other-track strictly in their direction?
07:29<arahael>I was hoping that design might work.
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>investigating jams is tricky, because you might need to look at the last train that got through to isolate the cause of the jam
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>but like i said, X-crossings mostly do more harm than good. and bi-directional pieces of track are even worse
07:32<arahael>I'll have to remove them, then. Is there still value in doing quad tracks?
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes
07:33<arahael>Awesome - I'll get right onto that, then!
07:34<arahael>Just gotta sort out this other nearby station, the coal output has become massive.
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>the important bit about the design of a quad-track mainline is that you must make sure that trains never ever stop on the main line
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>so you need to look at things like priority signals when merging branch lines into the main line
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>and when the pickup station on a branch line is full, you need to have enough space that trains can queue up outside of the main line
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07:37<arahael>I've never really played with priority signals.
07:37<arahael>Is there a good discussion about them?
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>mind you, i would never play like this :)
07:38<arahael>Heh, naturally. :)
07:38<arahael>You're a one-track-per-train guy, yes?
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>no
07:39<arahael>What's your thing?
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>my maps look something like this http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png
07:41<arahael>The previous game I played... Was 10 years ago. :)
07:41<arahael>Your map is quite a bit smaller. :)
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is a bit unusual for me, but at that time, i needed a map size that i could fill relatively quickly
07:42<arahael>Ah, so you're more into connecting the industries.
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>that game was 90% passengers
07:42<arahael>I wanted to do that... But given the size of the map, and I was just really tired, so I was thinking: "Lets do the coal. Just the coal..."
07:43<arahael>Passengers are remarkably easy.
07:43<arahael>But you end up having to do city design.
07:43<arahael>Which is just an irritation, for me.
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07:43<Eddi|zuHause>that game was to test a variant of a cargo destinations patch
07:44<arahael>No idea what that is! :)
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>it makes cargo have an opinion of where it wants to go, instead of the player deciding where to pick it up and drop it off
07:45<arahael>Oh, that would be fun.
07:46<arahael>And realistic.
07:46<andythenorth>nice map Eddi|zuHause
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>the game now includes "cargo distribution" which does that in a sense, but it only considers connections that you actually deliver to
07:46<andythenorth>I don't have the patience for so many bus routes
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>the patch that i tested there went a step further, and considered all possible destinations on the map
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>so if there were two power stations, and you only connected one of them to your network, you would only get half the coal
07:48<arahael>I wonder which is more realistic.
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>which is a nice idea, but it caused all sorts of followup problems like industries closing because their transport rating is too low
07:49<peter1138>Hm, so.
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>and it had performance issues
07:49<peter1138>Github is evil.
07:49<peter1138>Now what?
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>is there a mercurialhub?
07:50<peter1138>I suspect it's the hub part that matters ;p
07:50*arahael is now wondering how best to do intersections at a quad track.
07:50<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: Perhaps the price you get for the cargo could be multiplied by the desirability of that destination, or osmething?
07:50<peter1138>Path signals. Tracks crossing tracks.
07:51<andythenorth>it is evil
07:51<arahael>peter1138: Yes... I figured path signals woudl be involved. :)
07:51<andythenorth>and maintaining our own poor clone of it is evil
07:51<andythenorth>and the internet, broadly, is evil
07:51<peter1138>Yeah, it took me ages to get gitea working properly, still having issues :S
07:51<arahael>peter1138: What's the issue with github, incidentially?
07:52<peter1138>Their ToS/privacy policy upsets some people.
07:52<andythenorth>easy to track individual contributors
07:52<andythenorth>no segmented identity
07:52<arahael>peter1138: Meh, that's part and parcel of being free, I would say?
07:53<andythenorth>aggregated networks are very hostile to people who need to keep parts of their lives separate
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: price changes like that don't make a lot of sense. you're being paid for transporting. you're not buying the coal at the mine and selling it at the power station
07:54<andythenorth>but github won, so eh
07:54<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: That's a fairly good point.
07:54<arahael>andythenorth: Oh, it's aggregated now?
07:54<andythenorth>your public profile lists all projects you contributed to, afaik
07:55<arahael>Ah, yeah.
07:55<andythenorth>and you are only allowed one username
07:55<peter1138>Yeah, even if it's just a bug report.
07:55<andythenorth>so there are 10 different reasons why that might be bad for some people
07:55<arahael>I did notice that, which annoyed me at the time but I didn't have the energy to care much.
07:56<andythenorth>it's kind of limiting if any of the following apply:
07:56<andythenorth>- it's an infosec attack vector
07:56<andythenorth>- you have to keep paid work and hobby work separate
07:57<andythenorth>- you contribute to politically sensitive projects
07:57<andythenorth>- your contributions could reveal things you want to keep secret, e.g. health status, gender, sexuality, other protected characteristics
07:57<arahael>Luckily, for me, we have our *own* github for work. But I still have the organisation show up on github. :(
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>so you're actively trying to talk me out of creating a github account now?
07:57<andythenorth>- your contributions could make you a target for persistent trolls
07:58<andythenorth>it's basically fine if you're in a group with relatively more privilege, or you just don't give a fuck
07:58<andythenorth>and tech is mostly built by those with relatively more privilege
07:59<arahael>I fully agree.
07:59<andythenorth>so all is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds
07:59<andythenorth>ultimately it's a train game, we're not trying to save the world, so tradeoffs eh
07:59<arahael>I'm part of a (very small) minority, but sadly, such that it feels like I really should be more politically active, yet I don't want to worry too much about how it migh taffect work. Blegh.
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08:01<andythenorth>social networks are good at limiting political activism only to those with strong views
08:01<andythenorth>they remove any middle ground where consensus could be built
08:01<arahael>I have strong - but very contrary views. :(
08:01<andythenorth>I think social networks are a fairly toxic development
08:01<andythenorth>watching Zuck was interesting
08:01<arahael>They are, yes.
08:02<arahael>Zuck is privilaged as all heck.
08:03<arahael>Luckily, in some ways, so am I. (I have a job, a reliable income, etcetera)
08:03<arahael>Within my minority, that's unusual.
08:03<arahael>(I'm deaf, btw)
08:07*arahael imagines a pin drop.
08:08<andythenorth>born deaf or lost hearing during life?
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>luckily, you don't need hearing in IRC :p
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'm starting to think my choice of cheap-o-free mail provider was terrible
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't let me send a mail to 40+ recipients at a time
08:10<arahael>andythenorth: I was 1 year old, raised "oral", but now sign.
08:11<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: gmail? o_O
08:11<andythenorth>obvs. google get all your stuff
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>not an idea i'm too fancy of
08:12<arahael>andythenorth: Google has it anyway.
08:12<arahael>I use fastmail, but I hear protonmail's good for privacy.
08:13<arahael>So I have a tri-rail track... TWo going one way, one going the other. (Soon to be a quad-rail track). However...
08:13<arahael>Almost every train is using only one of the two incoming tracks. :(
08:13<arahael>I'd say 1 in... 7? Uses the other rail.
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>with two parallel tracks, you need to balance the pathfinder penalties
08:14<arahael>Of course, that 1/7 is fast.
08:14<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: How do I do that?
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>make sure both tracks are roughly the same length, amount of curves, crossings, etc.
08:15<arahael>Hmm, interesting.
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>if they are roughly equal, you now can optimise your merge intersections so trains distribute themselves equally, depending on where the current reservations/red signals are
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>that's where the priority signals come into play
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>so the merging train won't cut off a train on the main line, and choose the other track
08:18<arahael>https://www.dropbox.com/s/r4x64ar32murn5u/Screenshot%202018-04-13%2022.17.53.png?dl=0 :(
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>if you have long signal distance, priority signals are actually not that difficult to do
08:18<arahael>Back in two secs... Gotta go snort some water.
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>i'm having a bit of trouble identifying which side of the track your trains go on
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08:23<arahael>Left.
08:23<arahael>I'm Australian. :)
08:23<arahael>So I have two tracks going to the left, and one to the right.
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08:28<andythenorth>so a random switch seems to wipe out graphics layers
08:28<andythenorth>wondering if it clears a register somehow
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: this is a simple priority signal with roughly even choice between tracks https://ibin.co/3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png
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08:31<Eddi|zuHause>uhm...
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08:32<arahael>Just my luck - that was a netsplit.
08:32<arahael>What did I last say?
08:33<andythenorth>does FORWARD_SELF(0) thrash register 0x100?
08:33<andythenorth>o_O
08:34<arahael>In any case, Eddi|zuHause - my *miniscule* change of moving a signal closer ot the intersection right at the station fixed the weights up.
08:34<arahael>So it's all good.
08:35<arahael>Thanks so much for all your help! :) I have to get to bed about now...
08:35<andythenorth>yeah
08:35<andythenorth>type 84 thrashes register 100 :( https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2#count
08:35<andythenorth>that's...annoying
08:36<andythenorth>that means some multi-part vehicles can never have random sprites with layers
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: my last line before you quit was: this is a simple priority signal with roughly even choice between tracks https://ibin.co/3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png
08:38<arahael>I didn't catch that one.
08:38<arahael>Thanks.
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>before that you were saying you're australian
08:39<arahael>Ah, you lost everything I said, then! Summary: I had two tracks going to the left, one to the right: But adding *one* signal right near the station fixed the weights up completely perfectly. :(
08:40<andythenorth>so why does FORWARD_SELF(1) not trash 0x100?
08:40<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: I don't understand how that 3yF3ONBJU5Vi.png works.
08:41<arahael>I have to get to bed now, though, so perhaps I'll ask again or will do some reading later.
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: so, trains on the main line come from the bottom right and go to the top left
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: they treat the exit signal like a normal signal, nothing changes for them
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: but a train approaching the exit signal on the main line will change that combo signal on the branch line to red, so no train can come there and cut it off
08:42<andythenorth>maybe I have to wait for frosch
08:42<peter1138>andythenorth, use a different register?
08:42<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: Hmm, I think I'll have to study that and give it a play tomorrow. Thanks again for your time!
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>arahael: if both main lines are blocked by approaching or leaving trains, the combo signals both are red, and the entry signal turns red as well, so a train will wait there until one of the sides opens up
08:42<andythenorth>peter1138: spec says 0x100 https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites
08:43<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: G'night!
08:45<andythenorth>real proper spec https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites
08:46<andythenorth>I reckon I just don't set count 0 for type 84 random varact2
08:46<andythenorth>problem goes away
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08:49<andythenorth>yup
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08:58<Pikka>andy: don't you need it set to 0?
09:00<andythenorth>I do if I want to read 0x100
09:01<andythenorth>but doing that is a BAD IDEA if I want to use spritelayers
09:01<andythenorth>register collision
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2 <-- according to this, FORWARD_SELF(0) reads register 0x100
09:01<andythenorth>yes
09:01<andythenorth>that's why I can't set 0 there
09:02<andythenorth>on the plus side pikka bob, rear lights via layers
09:02<andythenorth>works
09:02<Pikka>o/
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: then what is the actual problem?
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09:03<andythenorth>the actual problem is incorrectly trying to use 0x100 in two places in the same chain
09:03<andythenorth>the actual solution is trivial, because one of the uses is accidental
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>that's ok, if you do it in the right order
09:03<Pikka>oh, right. if it's non-0 it doesn't read the register
09:04<andythenorth>it's not clear here that FORWARD_SELF(0) reads the register https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch
09:04<andythenorth>eh
09:04*andythenorth could fix, but chores
09:05<Pikka>yar, makes sense now
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: ah, so you set FORWARD_SELF(0) in the expectation that would read the current vehicle, which just happened to work because 0x100 happened to be 0 all the time
09:06<andythenorth>yes
09:06<andythenorth>docs aren't quite comprehensive enough
09:06<andythenorth>the footnote suggests all values are valid also
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'm expecting it tries to constantify them, and if that fails, stores the result in 0x100
09:08<andythenorth>...which would nicely clear 0x100
09:08<andythenorth>:)
09:12*andythenorth updated docs
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>probably not the correct way to document it
09:14<andythenorth>probably not, but eh
09:14<andythenorth>dishwasher won't unload itself, and no-one else will document it :P
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>is that clear? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch
09:20<andythenorth>yes
09:20<andythenorth>thanks
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not 100% that's what it does though
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>there's some strange "1 <= random_switch.type_count.value <= 15" test that i'm not sure what it's intended for
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>so if i read it correctly, if it's a constant and that constant is between 1 and 15, it doesn't use 0x100
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise it overwrites 0x100
09:25<andythenorth>that would make sense somewhat
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>updated
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>i think 1..15 is the range that the NFO expression can handle directly as constants
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>in any case, using a register is a side effect that better be documented correctly :)
09:28<andythenorth>yes that's clear
09:28<andythenorth>thanks
09:30<andythenorth>biab
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09:45<peter1138>Hmm
09:51<supermop_work>yo
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10:12<Pikka>yoyo
10:22<@Alberth>o/
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11:22<supermop_work>this elevator vendor i am working with is named 'rusty doom'
11:24<peter1138>Promising.
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12:53*peter1138 ponders
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12:55<peter1138>Wonder where to start on NRT.
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12:56<peter1138>andythenorth will know
12:56<andythenorth>probably
12:56<andythenorth>TrueBrain: 280
12:57<peter1138>This is messy :(
12:57<andythenorth>peter1138: TB said 'just" do this https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/issues/22#issuecomment-379849291
12:58<peter1138>Perhaps but the history is messy
12:58<andythenorth>we want cleaner commits?
12:58<andythenorth>fewer 'sync'
13:00<peter1138>Fewer unrelated commits.
13:00<peter1138>Fewer fixing of previous commits.
13:01<peter1138>What is a RoadTypeIdentifier?
13:01<frosch123>a tuple of baseroadtype and roadsubtype or so
13:02<frosch123>base being road/tram, subtype being the index in the pool
13:07<peter1138>It's very... organic.
13:08<andythenorth>you could refactor, we have grfs to test with
13:08<andythenorth>and expected behaviour
13:08<peter1138>*nod*
13:08<andythenorth>no unit tests afaik :P
13:08<peter1138>That's normal for ottd :D
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>unit tests are tricky to build for a program that was never desinged with "units" in mind
13:09<andythenorth>well we could have functional tests :P
13:09<andythenorth>I don't fancy writing them though
13:10<andythenorth>I considered if I should write tests for FIRS
13:10<andythenorth>as I am fixing a total clown shoes mistake in the last release :P
13:11<peter1138>I might just go out on the bicycle instead.
13:11<andythenorth>:P
13:13<andythenorth>hmm Jenkins is angry about FIRS
13:13<andythenorth>is my release bad? o_O
13:13<andythenorth>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/
13:13<andythenorth>oh I broke hg
13:14<peter1138>Connection refused.
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>17:07:54 [workspace] $ hg pull --rev default
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>17:07:54 abort: error: Connection refused
13:14<peter1138>Switch it to git.
13:15<andythenorth>it's tempting
13:15<frosch123>retry :)
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>who is maintaining coop servers right now anyway?
13:15<andythenorth>probably frosch123
13:15<andythenorth>I feel bad
13:15<frosch123>anyway, daily restart cron is still not enough for kallithea
13:15<frosch123>oom all day
13:15<andythenorth>but I am not to be trusted with SSH :P
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: sounds like a piece of infrastructure that should be ripped out and replaced with something different
13:16<andythenorth>github :P
13:16<andythenorth>for better or worse
13:17<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: good idea, please file a PR for https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/OpenTTD/
13:17<andythenorth>hmm Jenkins refusing my auth creds
13:17<andythenorth>the auth system hates me
13:18<andythenorth>nvm it's building
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i don't understand
13:18<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: 1. you want more tests, 2. we have a github project for testbuilds of ottd, 3. there was a project on devzone to test various build configurations
13:19<frosch123>4. if you have time for whining you also have time for that
13:19<TrueBrain>frosch123: you dont even sort on static vs non-static?
13:19<TrueBrain>*bit shocked* :D
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>the problem isn't really the amount of time i have
13:20<TrueBrain>andythenorth: tnx for the spam :D Nice work :)
13:20<andythenorth>who is writing the CONTRIBUTING.md then?
13:20<andythenorth>I have some stuff for it
13:20<frosch123>TrueBrain: the variables are grouped logically, sorting them by external/internal linkage would make the code worse imho
13:20<andythenorth>"We close issues to keep focus, too many issues is overwhelming"
13:21<TrueBrain>frosch123: I cannot believe _ means global
13:21<TrueBrain>that is ... so anti-any-other-pattern-I-know :D
13:21<andythenorth>"A closed issue can be re-opened if you make a good case"
13:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: i think the normal pattern is "never prefix stuff with _, it is reserved for OS and compiler internals"
13:22<TrueBrain>in languages like Python it means private/protected
13:22<TrueBrain>but yeah ..
13:22<TrueBrain>and sorting static vs non-static can really help .. there is normally a huge difference between your publicAPI and your internals
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>does python actually enforce that or is that just a convention?
13:22<TrueBrain>but .. yeah .. I should have checked the coding style before blabbing :D
13:22<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: convention
13:22<frosch123>TrueBrain: i think you are talking about static/non-static in class scope
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13:23<frosch123>i think "static" has 4 meanings in c++14
13:23<Wolf01>Moin
13:23<TrueBrain>frosch123: .... static in my book means: only in this scope (when outside a class etc)
13:23<TrueBrain>so no other cpp file can use it
13:23<TrueBrain>("private" to that file)
13:24<TrueBrain>ran out of other ways to describe what it does in C :D
13:24<TrueBrain>I know little about C++ ... :(
13:24<frosch123>yes, in source file scope "static" is similar to "private" in classes :)
13:25<TrueBrain>so now you have 2 local variables, 1 global, and 1 local again
13:25<TrueBrain>I would at least assume that had to be grouped
13:25<TrueBrain>so it is more clear what is kept local, and what can be picked up global
13:25<frosch123>they are grouped by meaning, not by access class
13:25<TrueBrain>okay; good to know :)
13:26<frosch123>i also do not sort variables by "int first, then pointers" :p
13:26<TrueBrain>still cannot believe _ means global :P
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember some language where "static" meant "this variable retains its value through multiple function calls"
13:26<TrueBrain>sorting rule is easy .. alphabet! Done :)
13:26<andythenorth>ok let's get to 200 now
13:26<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause: yes, php, java, c#
13:26<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: did the name of that language begin with 'C'?
13:27<TrueBrain>frosch123: I am still surprised :D But I will get over it :) Tnx!
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i'm switching between languages often enough that i cannot associate language features with language names anymore
13:27<frosch123>http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/keyword/static <- well, only 3, it felt like there was a 4th
13:28<TrueBrain>yeah, so it is what I asusmed it was, even in C++
13:29<TrueBrain>it just reads so annoying ... I really learnt to love the visual game you can do with programming languages :)
13:29<TrueBrain>owh well :) Coding style is coding style
13:29<TrueBrain>*mutters something about _ for global ... *
13:29<peter1138>We've always used _ for global.
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that one is easy to solve, remove all global variables
13:29<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: go for it
13:30<andythenorth>refactoring is easy when we have so many tests
13:30<andythenorth>oh wait :P
13:30<TrueBrain>I do remember in 2004 there was a lot of debate about anythin in the freaking coding style
13:30<Wolf01><Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that one is easy to solve, remove all global variables <- I already did it for some
13:30<TrueBrain>that was very painful
13:30<TrueBrain>especially the * placement
13:31<peter1138>Haha, I was just going to comment about that.
13:31<peter1138>One person want it the wrong way.
13:31<peter1138>+ed
13:31<TrueBrain>that person wanted a lot of things against everyone else tbfh
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>i have a name popping up in my head
13:31<frosch123>Stroustrup?
13:32<TrueBrain>but okay .. the project did get a lot better with an established coding style
13:32<TrueBrain>4 letters
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>not that one
13:32<+glx>starting with t
13:32<TrueBrain>if we talk about anything that was annoying in the old days
13:32<TrueBrain>4 letters
13:32<peter1138>Good movie.
13:32<TrueBrain>yes
13:32<peter1138>So...
13:33<peter1138>I wonder if I should look at the final NRT changes, and then split it up logically.
13:33<TrueBrain>still not over _ .. lol :D Sorry, just a bit flabbergasted
13:33<__ln__>there was one good thing about that though... we immediately got to know what is not funny, and when a discussion has ended.
13:34<peter1138>"Codechange: rogue blank line"
13:34<peter1138>So not even a code change.
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13:35<andythenorth>so only 50 'enhancements from flyspray' left TrueBrain
13:35<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/labels/enhancement%20from%20FlySpray
13:35<TrueBrain>nice work there
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>this peer dude seems active again
13:35<andythenorth>the AI and GS, I can't comment so much
13:35<andythenorth>the newgrf, it's just doing hard politics :(
13:36<+glx>I tried to fix my PR but it didn't end well
13:36<andythenorth>quite a few about hotkeys https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+hotkeys
13:37<TrueBrain>glx: I have asked GitHub what is going on, because for some reason after a force push, GitHub is not doing what it says it should be doing
13:37<andythenorth>frosch123: would this be blocked by 'station areas are nonsense' https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2683? o_O
13:37<andythenorth>or am I spreading FUD?
13:37<TrueBrain>but they havent responded yet
13:37<+glx>TrueBrain: yes because force push is the usual way to update PR as google told me
13:37<TrueBrain>yup
13:38<TrueBrain>and I think it is really a bug on their side
13:38<TrueBrain>but I use a plugin many others also use, and didnt change this part
13:38<frosch123>andythenorth: my todo list has the item "add option to make catchment area logical, default it to on and hide it in expert/arcane settings"
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's easily solved by having a switch delivery/pickup
13:38<+glx>on the web side it's correct, but I can't get the PR in github desktop
13:39<frosch123>glx: can you extend your kick script for "easy solved"?
13:39<+glx>it shows the old commits instead
13:39<TrueBrain>glx: yup; CI has the same issue
13:41<andythenorth>I assumed JGR would have station coverage, but no
13:41<andythenorth>surprised by that
13:42<frosch123>juanjo may have it
13:42<frosch123>at least i think we talked about it 5 years ago :p
13:42<TrueBrain>glx: only workaround I have found, is the create a new PR :P
13:42<TrueBrain>I really have no clue why it does this
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, mathematically speaking, area for pickup is union[each station tile](extend(tile, catchment radius)), whereas area for delivery is extend(enclosing rectangle(all station tiles), catchment radius)
13:42<andythenorth>oh JGR has some kind of zoning
13:43<andythenorth>but I tried to figure it out before
13:43<andythenorth>and couldn't
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, the zoning patch exists
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>i think it does something slightly different, though
13:44<TrueBrain>andythenorth: can we close 6607?
13:45<andythenorth>TrueBrain: these are the ones where I don't want to touch the politics tbh
13:45<andythenorth>some of Michael and George's requests seem pretty reasonable
13:45<andythenorth>but they're very out of any loop that would get them done
13:45<TrueBrain>lot of requests seem reasonable
13:45<TrueBrain>but ..... keeping them around is not helping either
13:45<andythenorth>no
13:46<TrueBrain>so, will it be implemented in the next year? :D
13:46<andythenorth>no
13:46<andythenorth>I can't do it
13:46<andythenorth>and nobody else wants to
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>we could also unify the two areas, by storing the area as rectangle in the station list, and upon move_to_station call we go through the list of stations and pick one that the house/industry is in, instead of looking in a tileloop around the house/industry
13:46<andythenorth>JGR does have station catchment shown
13:46<andythenorth>so it's done
13:46<TrueBrain>andythenorth: ugh, I see your issue, reading the ticket better
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>that will result in stations getting cargo that previously didn't
13:47<andythenorth>Michael makes requests that I think are totally reasonable
13:47<andythenorth>but he won't get them because he pissed you all off
13:47<andythenorth>so it's a dead ticket
13:48<TrueBrain>6607 seems like a trivial one for someone new to learn NewGRF, I guess
13:48<TrueBrain>*reads frosch123 commit messages* *reads the code* *puzzled* *head hurts* *Why are you doing this to me*
13:49<andythenorth>I closed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2683
13:49<TrueBrain>ah, there is another branch check lower
13:49<TrueBrain>lol
13:49<LordAro>frosch123: you could remove the trailing ; as well :p
13:50<andythenorth>this sounds really bad to me, because my judgement is off :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3003
13:50<andythenorth>I always freak out about errors :P
13:50<frosch123>hmm true
13:50<TrueBrain>lol
13:51<frosch123>hmm, repushed before jenkins was done
13:51<frosch123>i am sure this breaks stuff :p
13:51<TrueBrain>Jenkins can handle that fine :)
13:52<+glx>if you forced everything will break ;)
13:52<frosch123>i did :)
13:52<TrueBrain>you did before without issue
13:52<frosch123>but yes, could also have been a case for squasing
13:52<TrueBrain>its a bit weird
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>so when can we expect DorpsGek to announce merges here?
13:53<TrueBrain>go to #openttd.notice
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>that was not the question
13:53<LordAro>^^
13:53<TrueBrain>but an answer nevertheless
13:54<peter1138>You can go your own waaaaaaaaaaaay
13:54<+glx>DorpsGek doesn't announce things in .notice anyway
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>i was expectin that in #openttd.notice you wanted to run tests how spammy/reliable it is, and then reenable it here
13:55<TrueBrain>and frosch123's PR now also broke
13:55<TrueBrain>seriously ... what .. the .. fuck ...
13:55<LordAro>which GH plugin are you using?
13:55<+glx>it's clearly a github bug
13:55<TrueBrain>not relevant
13:55<TrueBrain>the bug is in the GitHub repo itself
13:56<LordAro>oh right
13:56<LordAro>yeah
13:56<LordAro>did you get a response from GH?
13:56<+glx>because the display on the site is correct
13:56<TrueBrain>refs/pull/<id>/head reports wrong hash
13:56<TrueBrain>no reply yet ..
13:56<TrueBrain>this is just bloody annoying
13:56<TrueBrain>but cant find anyone else complaining about it
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>i see, the transition goes smoothly :)
13:57<peter1138>It was working, right?
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13:58<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your definition of "it", "was" and "working", i suppose
13:59<+glx>indeed github desktop still shows the old version in PR
13:59<TrueBrain>even their own client is fail .. well, I hope they can find what is causing it
13:59<LordAro>TrueBrain: https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-50755 ?
13:59<LordAro>not helpful, but shows someone else having the problem
14:00<TrueBrain>indeed, not alone :)
14:00<+glx>and confirms our idea ;)
14:01<TrueBrain>it also seems to be recent
14:01<TrueBrain>it started yesterday or so
14:01<TrueBrain>as before that we did a few rebases just fine
14:01<andythenorth>now we learn about problems caused by our host :)
14:01<frosch123>move to gitlab! :p
14:02<TrueBrain>yes! Lets move for every bug we find to another!
14:02<andythenorth>host our own!
14:02<TrueBrain>in no time we will be using notepad!
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>are those the evil ones?
14:02<LordAro>pretty sure github are the evil ones
14:02<andythenorth>this is a totally valid bug, but there's no solution https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4076
14:02<andythenorth>negative has to be red
14:02<andythenorth>it's completely illegible, but it has to be red
14:03<TrueBrain>doesnt github have an issue tracker or something ?
14:03<LordAro>andythenorth: lighter grey?
14:04<andythenorth>that would require the entire UI to be refactored
14:04<LordAro>true
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: maybe something can be done with shadow colour?
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: or a setting like for the map colours?
14:04<andythenorth>I tried it a black shadow
14:05<andythenorth>it's moderately better
14:05<andythenorth>interestingly the various charts disagree about negative
14:05<andythenorth>some have black y axis -ve labels
14:05<andythenorth>some have red
14:05<andythenorth>finance window is black
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably a missing {COLOR} in some STR_WHATEVER?
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>or different string code used?
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14:07<andythenorth>adding a black shadow is the fastest solution https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4076#issuecomment-381217332
14:07<TrueBrain>okay, #6584 is very cryptic ... is the issue here that in the german version the top line below the image is missing?
14:08<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause: did the fix for yesterday work? The train depot list stuff
14:08<andythenorth>the g is truncated in last line TrueBrain
14:08<TrueBrain>ah
14:08<andythenorth>as though it's not given enough space or so
14:08<TrueBrain>but there isa also les sinformation in that window!!
14:08<andythenorth>I don't know the UI box model
14:08<TrueBrain>the cost is not there
14:08<andythenorth>but that would be overflow hidden
14:09<TrueBrain>and weight
14:10<andythenorth>it's a bug
14:10<TrueBrain>how weird!
14:10<andythenorth>but how and where, dunno :P
14:10<TrueBrain>but I like he complains about the letter at the end :D
14:11<TrueBrain>I like how for many things adf88 has a patch uploaded
14:11<andythenorth>he does
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: well, the initial "dirty" fix "worked", but the "proper" fix didn't work out
14:12<TrueBrain>andythenorth: possible we need priorty labels of some sorts .. lot of projects have that .. for example, #6582 is a bug, but .. meh; not that imprtant. Yet others are important
14:12<TrueBrain>not sure
14:13<andythenorth>I would wait a bit
14:13<andythenorth>I agree basically, but there are other ways to skin that cat
14:13<TrueBrain>minor / critical
14:13<TrueBrain>but more flavours of the same :D
14:14<TrueBrain>#6581 .. another one .. sure, it would be nice .. but .. priority-wise it is somewhere down there
14:14<TrueBrain>yet it sounds minor to fix
14:16<TrueBrain>I love your comment on #6558 andythenorth :D
14:16<TrueBrain>it is very descriptive :)
14:17<TrueBrain>(the last one)
14:17<andythenorth>is video
14:17<andythenorth>eh
14:17<TrueBrain>last one is emptytyyyyyyyy
14:17<andythenorth>lawks
14:17<andythenorth>oh I couldn't delete in FS
14:17<andythenorth>I probably fat fingered a comment, and couldn't remove it
14:17<TrueBrain>I like the movie :)
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14:19<TrueBrain>#6548 suggests there was a change upstream that made neither of the 3 work?
14:21<LordAro>andythenorth: how's that move to github announcement coming along?
14:21<TrueBrain>LordAro: how is CONTRIBUTIONS.md coming along?
14:21<TrueBrain>:D
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14:22<LordAro>curl https://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_Style > CONTRIBUTING.md
14:22<TrueBrain>not really, but a start
14:22<LordAro>:p
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>so... i just totally necro-ed a topic
14:28<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> minor / critical <-- todo/urgent?
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14:30<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we could classify them into estimates of how much work it would be? <10loc, <100loc, major refactoring, complete redesign?
14:33<Wolf01>Fucks given?
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds more like voting :p
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so the problem with https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/OpenTTD/ is that it was not reconfigured to pull from the new repo?
14:37<andythenorth>I would not bother with prio. currently
14:37<andythenorth>it's either getting done, or not
14:38<andythenorth>there's no customer
14:38<andythenorth>management don't need a report :P
14:38*frosch123 assigns 90% of human resources to pango :p
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14:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but if you had some kind of hierarchy you could avoid reading the same 200 issues over and over each time you make a review?
14:39<andythenorth>I think it's easier to just close most of them
14:39<andythenorth>but yes
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14:39<andythenorth>at work I have a redmine milestone for 'not now'
14:40<andythenorth>and anything that's valid but not urgent goes in it
14:40<LordAro>we have a milestone "Later"
14:40<andythenorth>then we ignore it
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14:40<frosch123>so, which docs should be on wiki, and which on github?
14:40<andythenorth>there's always other high prio. things to do
14:40<andythenorth>CONTRIBUTING.md
14:40<frosch123>coding style vs contributning etc?
14:40<andythenorth>code style benefits little from being in wiki
14:40<LordAro>frosch123: given we have an actual wiki, i wouldn't bother using GH wiki
14:40<andythenorth>if you have power to enforce code style, you have power to commit
14:41<frosch123>yes, but should contributing contain anything, or links to wiki?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you might want to consider doing a thing from the not-now package even though there's higher priority stuff going on, one per day
14:41<LordAro>some sort of cut down version of the wiki page, probably
14:41<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: plausible yes
14:41<LordAro>and also explaining rebasing and where issues are
14:41<andythenorth>I would link the wiki to GH
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14:41<andythenorth>rather than vice versa
14:41<andythenorth>might be taste though, I find the wiki hard to read
14:41<andythenorth>YMMV
14:42<andythenorth>I also always systematically distrust wikis
14:42<andythenorth>because wiki
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>so, i now have successfully made a local clone of openttd
14:43<andythenorth>\o/
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>in a directory called "trunk"... :p
14:45<andythenorth>not sure I understand this one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5678
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: something like "if you switch from population to name, also switch from descending to ascending"
14:49<andythenorth>oh so it specifies a sort order per field
14:49<andythenorth>ok
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>not sure, however, whether that is just a "fix MY usecase" change, or if it's a change beneficial to the general public
14:49<andythenorth>[shrug]
14:49<andythenorth>all UI stuff with binary choices, unless there's an obvious 'better', don't touch it
14:49<andythenorth>changing it for 1 patcher might piss off 999 players
14:50<andythenorth>it's taste, not aesthetics
14:51<@Alberth>I initially implemented it inconsistent, as it made the most sense, but it was changed to something consistent later
14:52<andythenorth>:)
14:53<@Alberth>names alphabetically starting at A, population starting with the highest value
14:53<peter1138>So many commits.
14:53<andythenorth>frosch123: shall we just declare subtypes 'not getting fixed'? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/3764
14:53<andythenorth>and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5631
14:53<peter1138>I really should've gone out on the bicycle. I could've been back by now.
14:53<andythenorth>they are total heart sink when I read 'livery' issues
14:53<peter1138>(If I'd've liked a short ride)
14:53<andythenorth>still light here peter1138 :P
14:53<andythenorth>and not even very cold
14:53<peter1138>Didn't I have a patch for subtypes for somethin?
14:54<andythenorth>probably lost
14:54<peter1138>No, I have a backup.
14:54<andythenorth>subtypes are a raging disaster
14:54<andythenorth>they should be sacked, but eh
14:54<peter1138>They were fine but we extended things in a different direction.
14:54<andythenorth>I find them a bit depressing :D
14:54<andythenorth>they don't work as expected
14:54<andythenorth>they don't work with auto-replace
14:55<andythenorth>they don't work with auto-refit
14:55<peter1138>Which ttdpatch didn't have.
14:55<andythenorth>they aren't liveries, but they're described as such
14:55<andythenorth>oh so we built a roundhole for a perfectly good square peg? o_O
14:56<peter1138>:D
14:56<andythenorth>shoulda just done 'livery labels'
14:56<andythenorth>imagine the fun
14:56<andythenorth>days of wiki drama
14:56<andythenorth>BNSF will overlap with something no doubt
14:56<peter1138>Basically there's no point to them now that we have unlimited* vehicle types.
14:56<andythenorth>I use them for cargo capacity refits on ships
14:57<andythenorth>they're a bit broken, but it's the least worst way to vary capacity by +/-10%
14:57<andythenorth>let's do livery labels :)
14:57<andythenorth>and a UI where livery can be set per vehicle
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of "unlimited*" vehicle types, the vehicle list needs a text filter :p
14:58<peter1138>I welcome your patch.
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>i noticed that yesterday while scrolling through the CETS vehicle list :p
14:58<peter1138>Or rather, I welcome your PR.
14:58<peter1138>Or feature request on github :D
14:58<andythenorth>PR is something quite different in my house
14:58<andythenorth>I am married to a doctor
14:58<andythenorth>it involves gloves
14:59<frosch123>are you the training subject?
14:59<andythenorth>nope
14:59<frosch123>lucky :)
15:00<andythenorth>can we reduce some more of the Very Important 276 open issues :P
15:00<peter1138>I reckon for roadtypes we should first add a load of hardcoded types to the game...
15:00<andythenorth>before adding more
15:00<peter1138>Then bodge newgrf stuff on later
15:01<peter1138>Bit like airports
15:01<andythenorth>HWY?
15:01<LordAro>because that worked out so well :p
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: we haven't even managed to put trams into the default vehicle set
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15:04<Wolf01>Stop making peer reset your connection
15:06<peter1138>:p
15:06<peter1138>But really
15:07<peter1138>merge, merge, sync, sync, merge , merge, change, merge, sync, fix, fix, merge, comment, merge, merge
15:07<Wolf01>Sorry about that :(
15:07<LordAro>sounds like a rebase will go most of the way to fixing it :p
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: problem with that line of thought is that the more you add to the default game, the more difficult you make it for NewGRF authors to remove default stuff and replace it with their own ideas
15:07<peter1138>Oh, that "fix, fix" was the same commit but with different hashes in different branches
15:08<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, sorry, should I have used /s ?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's fine, i just wanted to clarify that :p
15:09<andythenorth>not sure what this even merges https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/commit/a2196a74edb39f62dd7398fd3131e8eb49bebea0
15:09<peter1138>heh
15:09<peter1138>Maybe I should've kept that single-commit version and broken it up.
15:10<peter1138>I used to rewrite all my patches several times.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>... and then still not commit them :p
15:10<peter1138>That too.
15:10<peter1138>Once the goal is complete it's easier to see what needs to be changed;.
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah that is pretty normal
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>once you know what you're actually trying to do, you can start over and do it properly
15:11<peter1138>Exactly.
15:11<peter1138>Only issue is I'm not familiar with this code.
15:13<peter1138>Oh, I did keep the diff. Hmm.
15:13<andythenorth>TrueBrain: want to do the NoAI ones? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+label%3ANoAI+label%3A%22enhancement+from+FlySpray%22+
15:14<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I amgoing through al the pages currently
15:14<TrueBrain>I am at page 4
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there's one missing there, pikka wanted to place semaphore signals
15:15<andythenorth>'all open' TrueBrain?
15:15<TrueBrain>yes
15:15<andythenorth>k
15:15<TrueBrain>minus the patches
15:15<TrueBrain>I really need to sit down for patches
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>you do this now standing up? :p
15:16<andythenorth>I was :P
15:16<andythenorth>am I missing the 'next issue' link in Github?
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15:18<triolus>hello. I'm looking to start a new openttd game and would like to go for a more 'model train' appearance rather than massive junctions/networks. I've never used newgrfs, so could you recommend some that would suit what I'm going for?
15:18<TrueBrain>#6501 ... sounds that works as intended .. need to check code :(
15:19<andythenorth>it's another potato / potato issue
15:20<andythenorth>and it's minor
15:20<andythenorth>and conditional orders don't really work anyway
15:20<andythenorth>changing that will just produce another ticket 'change it back'
15:21<supermop_work>triolus: what region do you wish to model
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>triolus: large map with sparse towns/industries (so you have space for nice layouts), pick a region/country and there's probably a NewGRF vehicle set for that
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>triolus: also things you might want to consider are a patchpack with "daylength" option, and industry sets
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>fill all remaining slots with station and eyecandy object sets :)
15:24<triolus>I'm going with the sub artic, so the PNW would be nice. Canada maybe
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>then NARS is probably for you
15:24<@Alberth>play 64x64 no room for anything massive
15:26<@Alberth>the screenshot forum is full with grf lists, have a browse there
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: "you have this 2x3m room, now build a nice H0 gauge layout"?
15:26<andythenorth>get NARS 2
15:26<@Alberth>better make it road only :p
15:26<@Alberth>I once played firs at 64x64, it was packed with industry, no room for rails :p
15:26*andythenorth waits for TrueBrain to get to 6416
15:27<triolus>the NARS trains look nice. kinda what I'm going for. what would be good for stations, objects, and road vehicles?
15:27<triolus>nm, it has a road vehicle one =) awesome
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>also pick a ship and plane set :)
15:28<andythenorth>triolus: industrial stations
15:28<andythenorth>(ISR)
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>i use ISR for industries, NewStations for passengers
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>Chips might also be useful, if you use FIRS as industry set
15:29<triolus>yea, ships are important. gonna do a 55-60% water map to get nice islands
15:29<andythenorth>there are no good ship sets
15:29<andythenorth>I'm working on that :P
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a "North American City Set" for houses, but i'm not sure how good that really is
15:30<Wolf01>We should really make andythenorth a curator, review grf lists, and a "download this preset" in game
15:30<andythenorth>ugh no
15:30<LordAro>haha
15:30<andythenorth>that's a horrible idea
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a terrible idea :p
15:31<andythenorth>what eddi said
15:31<andythenorth>if I liked grfs, I wouldn't be making my own
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>"here we have this person who can't make up his mind and decides the opposite every few days, let's make him the authority on what is good"
15:32<Wolf01>Yes
15:32<supermop_work>andythenorth's curated grf set for 2018 (contains 0 grfs)
15:32<supermop_work>do you still have your tuk tuk?
15:32<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: or we could do what most other authors do
15:32<andythenorth>and ship the first lame idea they have :P
15:33<andythenorth>then stick rigidly to it
15:33<triolus>how is FISH?
15:33<andythenorth>supermop_work: kinda, but not in my posession directly
15:33<andythenorth>triolus: rubbish :)
15:33<triolus>andythenorth: lol
15:33<andythenorth>Squid is a bit better
15:33<supermop_work>i am trying to get my company to buy an old citroen corrugated van
15:33<andythenorth>Michael's NewShips is nice, but not very big set
15:34<andythenorth>supermop_work: the silver ones?
15:34<supermop_work>for marketing/pop up food truck use
15:34<andythenorth>they usually get turned into artisan food trucks
15:34<andythenorth>yes
15:34<andythenorth>those and three-wheelers
15:34<supermop_work>yeah, not sure if we'd paint or wrap it
15:34<supermop_work>three wheelers are tougher here
15:35<andythenorth>there is some US company makes utility three wheelers
15:35<supermop_work>hard to convince whatever state that they are legal
15:35<andythenorth>more common than I expected
15:35<TrueBrain>enhancement requests which only state a solution .. *close*
15:35<andythenorth>I saw a Bajaj in Austin
15:35<andythenorth>I'll find a picture
15:35<supermop_work>the little piaggi ones are very rare here
15:35<Wolf01>I'm trying to convince my boss to hire an osteopath/psychologist/lawyer
15:35<supermop_work>they are usually just decorative garage queens, not street registered
15:36<supermop_work>i want a tiny korean clone of tiny japanese truck
15:36<Wolf01>We have any sort of problem on my company
15:36<supermop_work>but too small for food
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>have a picture? i'm having a hard time imagining what you're talking about
15:36<peter1138>/home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/station_cmd.cpp:2954:12: warning: variable ‘catenary_bits’ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
15:37<peter1138>Hmm :S
15:37<andythenorth>supermop_work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/40541800215/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/40541799625/in/photostream/
15:37<andythenorth>it's a 4-stroke petrol, not as powerful or large as mine
15:37<andythenorth>Austin TX
15:37<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #6416 was easy
15:38<andythenorth>I wrote an essay
15:38<triolus>so I'm also gonna take aviator aircraft, unless someone knows better.
15:38<TrueBrain>I ignored it
15:40<andythenorth>supermop_work: Cushman Haulster https://hiveminer.com/Tags/cushman%2Cnypd
15:41<supermop_work>nice
15:41<supermop_work>ive seen some people withsurplus ex-police meter maids
15:45<andythenorth>269
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15:45<andythenorth>100 less then 24 hours ago
15:45<TrueBrain>#6398 is tricky .. really a bug, really no simple solution
15:46<TrueBrain>do we keep bugs around that have as resolution: when-ever-bananas-is-rewritten
15:46<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I asked you a question in that ticket :D I really do not know ..
15:47<andythenorth>TrueBrain: which ticket? o_O
15:48<TrueBrain>the one I linked you in, and talked about 1 minute before I wrote that? :P
15:48*peter1138 tests is compiles
15:48<peter1138>*it
15:49<andythenorth>closed it TrueBrain
15:49<peter1138>Ah, same error with plain NRT.
15:49*peter1138 rebases, foolishly.
15:50<peter1138>Oh, it hangs :p
15:52<andythenorth>TrueBrain: ok I read some more bugs, it might be time to hide some away in 'not now' project?
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15:52<andythenorth>that might equal 'closed' in reality, but eh, it seems neater
15:53<TrueBrain>example?
15:53<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6167
15:53<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6219
15:54<andythenorth>yeah they're bugs
15:54<andythenorth>but literally no kittens die
15:54<andythenorth>there's quality, and then there's quality
15:54<andythenorth>maybe call a project "No Dead Kittens"
15:55<TrueBrain>6167 sounds like a simple fix, but it is gold plating
15:55<TrueBrain>still, hiding them away is not helping either
15:55<TrueBrain>(as hiding is the same as closing)
15:55<andythenorth>so let's close some
15:55<TrueBrain>but it is why I mentioned a label for priority (or severity maybe)
15:55<andythenorth>(some more)
15:55<TrueBrain>lets not close for the fact of closing please
15:56<TrueBrain>like 6167, I see no reason to close it
15:56<andythenorth>well the main thing is to be able to focus, so maybe it is a label
15:56<TrueBrain>just I would love to mark it as: minor
15:56<TrueBrain>but as you said earlier .. lets do priority later :)
15:56<andythenorth>ok
15:56<andythenorth>onwards
15:57<TrueBrain>and I was serious yesterdy: lets not second guess eachother; if I or you marked it as: keep (by removing the "from Flyspray"), lets not revisit it and challenge it again :) We have too many to look through ;)
15:57<andythenorth>this is surely nonsense?
15:57<TrueBrain>(on that note, reopening #6253 :D)
15:58<andythenorth>ok
15:58<TrueBrain>what was nonsense btw?
15:58<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6046
15:59<andythenorth>"I block my train in with signals, and then it is blocked"
15:59<TrueBrain>signals are the wrong way :)
16:00<LordAro>i think the actual issue is that it stops dead and doesn't (try to) reverse
16:00<TrueBrain>do trains otherwise?
16:00<TrueBrain>and they do after some time, he writes
16:00<andythenorth>I have verified the issue
16:01<peter1138>Depends on the settings.
16:01<andythenorth>what else is supposed to happen?
16:01<TrueBrain>andythenorth: verified what?
16:01<andythenorth>I can stop the train by building 1 way signals over it
16:01<andythenorth>so signals work correctly
16:01<andythenorth>trains work correctly
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>i think it should trigger a "train reverses at end of line" event
16:02<andythenorth>it has to be on signal density 1 to trigger it
16:02<andythenorth>(trigger the stop)
16:02<TrueBrain>owh, no, it is a bug
16:02<TrueBrain>lol
16:02<TrueBrain>this is funny
16:02<TrueBrain>ish
16:03<TrueBrain>make rail, put a one-way signal on it, make train go
16:03<TrueBrain>it will ignore the signal
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's fine if a train ignores a signal it already passed with the front engine
16:04<peter1138>^ Yeah
16:04<andythenorth>"https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6046"
16:04<andythenorth>oops bad paste
16:04<TrueBrain>it always ignores it
16:04<andythenorth>" But the problem is that they shouldn't stop in the first place."
16:04<TrueBrain>owh, it depends on the signal type
16:04<TrueBrain>lol
16:04<andythenorth>I don't get it
16:04<andythenorth>trains should *definitely* stop on one-way signals
16:04<andythenorth>they should *not* drive through them
16:04<andythenorth>I don't understand any proposed solution
16:05<TrueBrain>ah, PBS are ignore if they are the wrong way
16:05<TrueBrain>trains do reverse immediatly
16:05<andythenorth>not if you set signal density to 1, or sometimes 2
16:05<andythenorth>they stop, waiting path
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>the bug report says must be at least 2 signals to trigger
16:06<andythenorth>but he doesn't want reverse
16:06<andythenorth>"Besides, current behaviour is not "elegant" ('reverse_at_signals' is just a workaround)."
16:06<andythenorth>so wtf is supposed to happen?
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>"reverse_at_signals" is for waiting too long at red signals
16:06<andythenorth>one way signals only work telepathically?
16:06<TrueBrain>okay, behaviour really is a bit wonky
16:06<andythenorth>it's a bug eh TB?
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>this is "reverses at end of line", which it should do
16:07<TrueBrain>train on track, place one-way far in front of it, when it hits it, it IMMEDIATLY reverses, goes back to depot, won't come out of depot (no free path)
16:07<TrueBrain>train on track, place one way DIRECTLY in front of it, train stops, waiting for path
16:07<peter1138>andythenorth, well reverse is correct. Waiting ages maybe, maybe not.
16:07<TrueBrain>reversing the signals unstucks it
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>so it's a bug in path reservation?
16:08<andythenorth>I've labelled it bug
16:08<TrueBrain>and triage :)
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think we once had a bigger discussion about whether back of a one-way signal should be considered "safe waiting location"
16:08<andythenorth>k
16:08<peter1138>dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
16:09<peter1138>How do I get it to tell me what string?
16:09<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, no it's not.
16:09<TrueBrain>right, page 6 then
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>if it's not, it may cause stuck trains like that
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>because it can't reserve a path it won't move, but because it won't move it can't reach the end of the line to reverse
16:10<peter1138>andythenorth, where do I find an NRT newgrf?
16:10<TrueBrain>wow, #6337 is a stupid bug :p
16:10<andythenorth>peter1138: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1180663#p1180663
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16:11<peter1138>snow/rainforest was broken ever since TGP
16:11<andythenorth>isn't it
16:11<andythenorth>and tropic map gen
16:11<andythenorth>is awful
16:11<+glx><supermop_work> i am trying to get my company to buy an old citroen corrugated van <-- a type H (also know as TUB here) ?
16:12<peter1138>more height levels just makes the problem more visible
16:12<peter1138>i have some patches somewhere.. ;(
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16:12<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74647&p=1165875&hilit=temperate#p1165875
16:13<andythenorth>whatever TGP thinks it's doing in the sub-tropic, it doesn't
16:13<triolus>well, I think these newgrfs will be fun. thanks everyone. I'm gonna try to setup a server with them now =)
16:14<peter1138>andythenorth, is it meant to have toolbar sprites?
16:14<andythenorth>yes, there is one new one
16:14<andythenorth>for light rail construction
16:15<peter1138>Hmm, I have no trams at all.
16:15<TrueBrain>holy moly, if #6230 is really the fix for the problem .. silly little patch :D
16:15<andythenorth>peter1138: sprite 178 or so in openttdgui.png is the sprite
16:15<peter1138>andythenorth, no, i mean hogs
16:15<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75986&start=40 peter1138
16:15<andythenorth>no trams :o
16:17<TrueBrain>the patch in #6211 feels weird ... it adds new functions, but n othing calls it?
16:18<andythenorth>close it?
16:18<andythenorth>can always re-open later
16:18<peter1138>Hmm, I need more than 4GB RAM in my VM :p
16:18<andythenorth>lots of bugs to triage, let's not add more new ones
16:18<andythenorth>well, except NRT :P
16:19<peter1138>Usual issue of mouse warping not working too, so scrolling is bad.
16:19<TrueBrain>owh, I get what he tried to do .. he only added the command so it could be shown on websites
16:19<TrueBrain>not ingame
16:20<andythenorth>btw I get trams in tip of NRT fork, with Hog
16:20<andythenorth>FWIW :
16:20<andythenorth>:P
16:20<peter1138>I have trams in the vehicle list.
16:20<peter1138>Oh. Right.
16:21<peter1138>Broken tool bar :p
16:21<Wolf01>Good, I fixed that 3 times already
16:21<peter1138>Yeah, it's the pesky openttd.grf
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't it rebuild openttd.grf automatically?
16:23<LordAro>if grfcodec is available
16:23<TrueBrain>frosch123: do I understand you correctly, and in https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6207 a "closed, works as intended"?
16:23<peter1138>It didn't realise it needed to.
16:23<peter1138>Hmm, so, 5 sprites missing.
16:24<andythenorth>TrueBrain: 6207 is 'working as intended' but I think it shouldn't be silent
16:24<TrueBrain>so the bug is the silent part?
16:24<andythenorth>well
16:25<andythenorth>do you want 400 'failed to renew' red boxes? o_O
16:25<andythenorth>you / me / anyone /s
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>making it non-silent is probably easier than rewriting autorenew
16:25<andythenorth>it could go to news log
16:25<TrueBrain>so on the known-bugs list?
16:25<andythenorth>I think so
16:25<frosch123>TrueBrain: autorenew!=autoreplace
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>also, this is autorenew, there's no real reason why it would need to fail
16:25<frosch123>autoreplace works as intended, autorenew can be improved
16:26<andythenorth>there's a related issue
16:26<andythenorth>related because it's a similar error message needed, not similar cause https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5776
16:26<frosch123>i would keep the issue open
16:27<frosch123>it's a corner case, but there is an obvious fix
16:27<andythenorth>I've linked 6207 and 5776
16:27<andythenorth>I think they need to be open
16:27<frosch123>mark it as "good first issue" :p
16:27<andythenorth>both have caught me out
16:27<andythenorth>I did a whole newgrf with mixed-cargo articulated vehicles
16:27<andythenorth>then found they don't work :P
16:27<TrueBrain>frosch123: go for it :)
16:28<TrueBrain>but please reiterate first what is left of the ticket, as it was non-obvious to me
16:28<frosch123>only thing with the issue is that there are so many bollocks comments, so it is hard to understand :)
16:28<frosch123>^^
16:28<andythenorth>we can delete some honestly
16:28<TrueBrain>I did the topic and labels, but I would love a comment from you summarizing it :) Tnx frosch123!
16:29<TrueBrain>I am very tempted to classify #6193 as a security bug
16:29<TrueBrain>I have to look through the code first, but .. I forgot we did that :D
16:29<peter1138>Hmm, it's the new version number that is apparently too long.
16:29<andythenorth>TrueBrain: I wondered about 6193 :D
16:30<TrueBrain>OpenTTD has too many folders to store savegames :P
16:30<TrueBrain>very few games give this flexibility :)
16:30<peter1138>"20180412--g6ac07902M"
16:30<LordAro>peter1138: see open PR
16:31<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6709 this got merged :) \o/
16:31<andythenorth>commits that aren't translations or just frosch :D
16:31<andythenorth>'just frosch' sounds bad :P didn't mean to
16:32<peter1138>LordAro, that doesn't appear to address it being too long?
16:32<LordAro>true
16:32<peter1138>It's also missing my branch. I'm not on master.
16:32<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #6189, that sounds like a bug to me; the patch is in another ticket. Your comment seems in the wrong issue?
16:32<andythenorth>I deny it
16:32<Wolf01>Wow 262 issues, 60 less(fewer?) than yesterday
16:32<andythenorth>all of it
16:32<andythenorth>Wolf01: 100 less
16:33<Wolf01>Really?
16:33<TrueBrain>yeah, reads to me that you flipped your responses :)
16:33<frosch123>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6207 <- better?
16:33<TrueBrain>your comment confuses me more than the topic :D Lol
16:34<andythenorth>well
16:34<andythenorth>3298 put his patch for https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6189 on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6053
16:34<TrueBrain>tnx frosch123 :)
16:34<andythenorth>as part of another patch
16:34<TrueBrain>but I dont see why you suggest closing it, but owh no, leaving it open
16:34<TrueBrain>it is confusing!
16:34<TrueBrain>:D
16:34<peter1138>Ah, cos I'm in the middle of a rebase, most likely.
16:35<andythenorth>TrueBrain: file it under "andy was wrong"
16:35<andythenorth>happens
16:35<TrueBrain>no, I was trying to understand you :)
16:35<andythenorth>so am I :P
16:35<TrueBrain>I assumed you had reasoning behind it :)
16:35<andythenorth>sometimes it's like being a passenger watching :P
16:35<andythenorth>we have accidentally driven 3298 away
16:35<TrueBrain>so, I altered your comment than :)
16:35<andythenorth>so eh, is his patch ticket dead or legit? I'm confused :P
16:36<andythenorth>ok
16:36<andythenorth>solved
16:36<TrueBrain>Reload #6189 :)
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16:36<andythenorth>yup
16:37<TrueBrain>its really nice: I think we should close the ticket, I closed the ticket, I left it open, IN A SINGLE SENTENCE :D
16:37<TrueBrain><3
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>on #6193, it should probably prevented to cd into anything that is none of the Readme section 4.1 paths
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16:37<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: the ticket is the place to leave these comments :)
16:37<peter1138>He'd need a github account though.
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>not quite there yet
16:38<TrueBrain>what is the saying .. either put up or shut up?
16:39<TrueBrain>lol @ 6177 .. "very bad" .. "required" .. tempted to close the issue just for that :D
16:41<Wolf01>You could have replied "there are grfs for that"
16:42<TrueBrain>please do add that, if that is the case :)
16:42<peter1138>Hmm, so missing graphics. But there were no conflicts. What do I need to do :p
16:42<peter1138>Wolf01, tell me :D
16:43<Wolf01>Does it work or what?
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16:43<TrueBrain>why did the game get so many buttons .. omg ..
16:43<TrueBrain>so much bloat!
16:43<TrueBrain>:P
16:43<Wolf01>I'm trying to add more!
16:44<Wolf01>Mmmh, I really think I've lost the branch for the new game UI
16:44<Wolf01>The one with tabs
16:45<TrueBrain>I FOUND AN ISSUE WHICH andythenorth CAN MAKE A PULL REQUEST FOR! :D \o/ \o/
16:45<TrueBrain>that makes me happy :)
16:45<Wolf01>Stupid unpublished branch
16:45<TrueBrain>in git, always push to your fork
16:45<TrueBrain>even if you are not planning to make a pull request out of it
16:45<TrueBrain>if you lost it recently, 'git reflog' can be your friend
16:45<Wolf01>I don't plan to make a PR out of anything I do
16:45<peter1138>Wolf01, oh... yes. It's opengfx actually missing graphics.
16:45<peter1138>Have now installed the correct graphics.
16:46<TrueBrain>reflog shows all your recent actions, and in front the hash to go back to how things were before that action
16:46<TrueBrain>(or after that action?)
16:46<TrueBrain>well, either way :P
16:46<TrueBrain>after the action
16:46<TrueBrain>(in git, nothing is really lost, unless the garbage collector was triggered)
16:47<peter1138>Mm
16:48<peter1138>https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commits/nrt-block < worst idea ever ;p
16:48<andythenorth>nice
16:49<peter1138>No merging, no fixing intermediate stuff...
16:49<peter1138>Now I need to read through it all and understand how to stage it.
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>split into hunks and then combine hunks as you go?
16:50<TrueBrain>ugh, hotkeys ... what to do with them ...
16:50<andythenorth>make a project?
16:50<andythenorth>make a new issue listing all hotkey ponies?
16:51<peter1138>What's up with hotkeys?
16:51<andythenorth>get LordAro to do it?
16:51<andythenorth>peter1138: 'moar'
16:51<andythenorth>and non-ascii
16:51<TrueBrain>basically, it should be: hotkeys need a revamp
16:51<andythenorth>NotHotKeys
16:51<peter1138>NoHK
16:51<andythenorth>NotHot
16:52<andythenorth>probably easily misunderstood :P
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>... and a GUI for configuring them
16:52<andythenorth>there is a GUI
16:52<andythenorth>it's my text editor
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>that's far outside any reasonable definition of GUI :p
16:53<TrueBrain>hotkeys for volume .. that is just too silly
16:53<TrueBrain>no, NoHo
16:53<TrueBrain>that is much more in line :)
16:53<andythenorth>also open to misunderstanding
16:53<andythenorth>wilful or otherwise
16:54<andythenorth>I reckon it's hard to get <250
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>not without starting to actually solve any problems :p
16:57<andythenorth>I am about to close as TMWFTLB unless anyone has a cunning plan to solve it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/4365
16:57<peter1138>Let me come up with plan to fix it, in the 2 seconds it'll take you to close it.
16:58<TrueBrain>OpenTTD is in 32bpp by default these days? (for Windows)
16:58<andythenorth>peter1138: I am slow typing today
16:58<peter1138>andythenorth, not, TMWFTLB, imho it just should be random.
16:58<andythenorth>you have 30s
16:58<andythenorth>how do you show layout for random?
16:58<andythenorth>oh you mean "you don't"
16:58<peter1138>No need to.
16:58<andythenorth>+1
17:00<peter1138>RoadNoLevelCrossing() < empty comment
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17:03<peter1138>What does that function do?
17:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: the competitive people have various hotkey stuff in their fork
17:04<TrueBrain>but VOLUME? :)
17:04<TrueBrain>that is more for your OS :)
17:04<andythenorth>peter1138: is that the one that forbids level crossings?
17:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: yes, 32bpp is default for win, since win8 or so
17:05<peter1138>Yeah, figured it out.
17:05<TrueBrain>frosch123: cool; closes ticket :)
17:05<frosch123>TrueBrain: nah, not volume, but they have more weird keys and more hotkeys for various building tools
17:05<andythenorth>peter1138: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Properties_2
17:05<andythenorth>256
17:05<TrueBrain>that is it, we are done
17:05<TrueBrain>:P
17:05<andythenorth>magic number
17:06<andythenorth>now pick top 100, put em in a project
17:06<andythenorth>'stuff'
17:06<TrueBrain>awh, 255 :(
17:06<andythenorth>it makes it all a bit project-managed though eh?
17:07<andythenorth>"no this is what management wants you working on, thanks bai"
17:08<Wolf01>Aaaaaand... 'night... I won't be here for the entire weekend (lego stuff) :P
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i wish i had a GitHub account right now to open a ticket and make TrueBrain happy again :/
17:08<andythenorth>255 is a nice number too
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17:08<TrueBrain>please, don't create lies Eddi|zuHause
17:08<TrueBrain>:P
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that is the only thing the internet is good at, create and spread lies?
17:09<TrueBrain>andythenorth: toss a coin please
17:09<andythenorth>heads
17:09<TrueBrain>shit, I had to think about heads or tails before I asked
17:09<TrueBrain>okay, again
17:10<andythenorth>didn't you just
17:10<andythenorth>call
17:10<TrueBrain>yes .. I am weird
17:10<andythenorth>heads again
17:10<TrueBrain>okay, ticket stays open :)
17:10<andythenorth>this is dead I think https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5934
17:10<TrueBrain>(5596)
17:10<TrueBrain>no, it is not; 5596 is silly
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>if you can't think of heads or tails, just throw twice and pick same or different :p
17:11<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5596 is long closed? o_O
17:11<TrueBrain>5996
17:11<TrueBrain>I have to learn to read
17:11<TrueBrain>sorry :D
17:12<andythenorth>I am +1 to closing that
17:12<andythenorth>shell doesn't report success, only error
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>low hamming distance, could have happened to anyone :p
17:12<TrueBrain>shell is a very bad example for the audiance, but that was not my reasoning :D
17:12<TrueBrain>but closed it already :)
17:12<andythenorth>next
17:13<TrueBrain>wow, 5934 is tricky
17:14<andythenorth>tarpit
17:14<TrueBrain>problem is a bit, the request seems valid, and then the topic sinks in a technical talk about a single solution
17:14<TrueBrain>that confuses me :D
17:14<andythenorth>not winnable in current form
17:15<andythenorth>nobody's going to pull that and get it done
17:15<andythenorth>also 4 years
17:16<TrueBrain>ugh, okay
17:18<TrueBrain>quiet a few fixes are ready to be applied; just need to be dusted off :)
17:18<TrueBrain>take 5977
17:18<TrueBrain>includes a fix and everything
17:19<andythenorth>yes
17:19<andythenorth>I tested most of 3298's groups fixes
17:19<andythenorth>not sure if I got them all
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17:20<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #5958 .. you are good at those OSX shit
17:20<andythenorth>yeah I am he
17:20<andythenorth>the best
17:20<andythenorth>what does it all mean? :o
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17:23<TrueBrain>CLOSE IT andythenorth! JUST DO IT! :P
17:24<TrueBrain>(old OSX, I guess)
17:24<andythenorth>I don't understand it
17:24<TrueBrain>trackpad doesnt work, stopped reading after that :P
17:24<andythenorth>I think pinch is supposed to work even when mousewheel scrolls
17:24<andythenorth>[shrug]
17:26<andythenorth>closed
17:26<TrueBrain>so 1 more today ..
17:27<andythenorth>6061 is nice
17:27<andythenorth>keep it, rename it 'town trolls landscape'
17:27<andythenorth>trolling AI needed :P
17:28<TrueBrain>okay, that was weird ... my firealarm went off, but none of the sensors detected an issue
17:28<TrueBrain>they cycled for a few times, and went quiet
17:28<andythenorth>spooky
17:29<andythenorth>magnetic bees nearby?
17:31<peter1138>Herp
17:31<andythenorth>plate tectonics GS idea
17:31<andythenorth>4096x4096 map
17:31<andythenorth>64x64 island
17:31<andythenorth>GS moves the island 16 tiles every year
17:32<andythenorth>destroying your stuff
17:32<peter1138>o_O
17:32<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_World
17:37<TrueBrain>there
17:37<TrueBrain>250
17:37<TrueBrain>enough for the day
17:37<TrueBrain>night!
17:38<TrueBrain>nice work on issues today andythenorth :)
17:38<andythenorth>250 :)
17:38<andythenorth>ok winning
17:38<andythenorth>night
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17:43<triolus>I got my server up and running at eagle.triolus.com:3979 if anyone wants to join
17:46<peter1138>Replocate.
18:01<peter1138>Hmm, roadtype electric?
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18:14<LordAro>hmm
18:15<LordAro>the disadvantage to pango is that it depends on cairo, which depends on glib
18:15<peter1138>Enjoy
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18:17<LordAro>it's not a concern as far as the source goes, but i imagine it'll bloat the dependencies a bit
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: roadtype electric is for trolleybusses i assume
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>(there's also currently some test tracks where trucks drive with catenary on highways)
18:23<peter1138>LordAro, dependencies == someone else already wrote the code.
18:24<LordAro>yeah, but packaging & distributing dependencies isn't exactly the easiest for C++ stufff
18:24<LordAro>-f
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18:26<LordAro>DarkSSHClone: suspicious
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: minor forum annoyance, the "OpenTTD Graphics" link in the OpenTTD section is a "http" link, and my browser always complains about "leaving secure area", however it is immediately replaced with https again
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18:35<peter1138>The thing warns about insecure content anyway.
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>how do you mean?
18:37<peter1138>Mixed http/https resources.
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get such messages
18:38-!-DarkSSHClone [~tomi@42-98-20-127.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>just this one
18:40<peter1138>Ah, it's avatars in my notification popup.
18:41<peter1138>Most are locally hosted but not all.
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18:41<peter1138>Very old version of jquery in use, though.
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>what's a notification popup?
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>(i browse without javascript)
18:43<peter1138>Bloody hell, is that even possible these days?
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>not really... it's getting worse every time
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>but is it worse than sites nagging you about disabling your adblocker? dunno
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>and it's definitely not worse than fullscreen ads
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>sporadically you get sites that are just blank
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>and for youtube, etc. i use a different browser
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23:09<arahael>No more openttd for a week. :( Getting the screen of my laptop repaired.
23:10<arahael>peter1138: I browse without javascript too on my iPad2.
23:11<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: Tip: Sometimes "reader mode" can show you the content even if it's "blank".
23:12<Eddi|zuHause>what's a "reader mode"?
23:14<arahael>Eddi|zuHause: A special mode some browsers have - firefox and safari both have it. If the web page is compatible (Most article-based pages are), then it'll strip *all* the page presentation and just give you the text, along with relevant images,in a very easy to read format.
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 14 00:00:29 2018