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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-14

---Logopened Sat Apr 14 00:00:29 2018
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02:27<andythenorth>lo Pikka
02:28<andythenorth>is recolour sprites a thing?
02:28<andythenorth>or shall I just paint the pixels I need?
02:29<Pikka>it can be a thing, I did it for UKRS2... but painting is easier.
02:29*Pikka bbs
02:33<peter1138>RECOLOUR IT
02:34<peter1138>Left you a slew of TODOs andythenorth ;p
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02:35<andythenorth>I saw :D
02:35<peter1138>There's more, to do with AIs.
02:35<andythenorth>and Wolf has gone Lego-ing
02:35<andythenorth>such larks
02:36<andythenorth>so what's the go? Rebase the fork? Or use your giant patch?
02:45<peter1138>I'm looking through my giant patch at the moment.
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03:18<andythenorth>hacked a GS in place
03:18<andythenorth>crazy talk
03:18<andythenorth>better than hitting 'newgame' until I get 3 random cargos I like :P
03:27<andythenorth>I could do it properly and a UI to choose cargos eh
03:27<andythenorth>but I want to play ottd
03:27<peter1138>Play? What is this?
03:30<andythenorth>I know
03:31<andythenorth>oops, ran out money
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03:41<andythenorth>Pikka: played any FIRS ever? o_O
03:44<Pikka>nope, don't think I had a current enough version until recently
03:44<andythenorth>is different
03:46<Pikka>I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again?
03:46<andythenorth>I can later in the week
03:46<andythenorth>ping here is bad
03:46<andythenorth>there would be a lot of 'paused for andy to reconnect'
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04:17<__ln__>who would like to tell me what are _wnd.width_org and .height_org for in win32_v.cpp?
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04:25<__ln__>if i remove them and replace each occurrence with just .width and .height, apparently nothing changes in behaviour.
04:35<LordAro>they appear to have been there since r1
04:49<__ln__>i also wonder what 'bck' in _bck_resolution stands for. 'backup'?
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05:03<LordAro>__ln__: looks like its only use is when maximising the window, so i'd guess so
05:12<__ln__>thanks for your support :|
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05:29<TrueBrain>still no response from GitHub .. last time they were rapid with a response .. guess I either did it wrong (as you don't get confermation in email) or it was a really difficult question
05:29<TrueBrain>AWS also never replied ........
05:30<andythenorth>moin TrueBrain
05:31<TrueBrain>morning :)
05:32<andythenorth>so what today?
05:32<andythenorth>these 19 from FS?
05:34<TrueBrain>few things I like to do ... indeed, FS issues, OSX CI, Mingw CI, revamp CI to report better, look at cmake, slap LordAro for (see bootstrap! :P), slap andythenorth for making a PR of the issue I assigned to him
05:34<TrueBrain>so many choices
05:34<andythenorth>I am playing OpenTTD
05:34<LordAro>i'm sensing a theme
05:35<TrueBrain>but indeed, lets first finish tickets .. I was at page 7 of 10, so ..
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05:39<TrueBrain>andythenorth: so you understood #5654 .. can you explain me what he meant? :D
05:40<andythenorth>let's see
05:40<andythenorth>seems I thought it was bug...feature request
05:40<andythenorth>whatever that means
05:41<andythenorth> :P
05:41<TrueBrain>I dont understand what he is talking about
05:41<andythenorth>so, e.g. Operating Profit
05:41<andythenorth>in game with > 1 company
05:41<TrueBrain>I think, but this is reaching, that something is not reset on starting a new game?
05:41<andythenorth>so no screenshot
05:41<andythenorth>no save
05:41<andythenorth>no repro step
05:41<andythenorth>why spend my life reproing? :)
05:41<TrueBrain>yes; but dont care
05:42<TrueBrain>I am trying to undestand a user
05:42<TrueBrain>which is the first thing we should always do :)
05:42<andythenorth>ugh you pulled the argument I can't argue against :x
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05:42<TrueBrain>I am not asking to argue against me; I asked if you understood the user :D :)
05:42<andythenorth>you must have read an agile book
05:43<andythenorth>so the charts, operating profit etc, there is an option to toggle companies on and off
05:43<andythenorth>I think he's suggesting the toggle state per company is persisted in openttd, rather than the save
05:44<andythenorth>I thought of way to test, hang on
05:44<TrueBrain>no, the other way around :D Just reproduced it :D
05:44<TrueBrain>but he jumps to a solution, instead of the problem :)
05:44<TrueBrain>so, when you deselect a company
05:44<TrueBrain>and create a new game, or load a save game, or what ever
05:44<TrueBrain>it remembers it
05:44<TrueBrain>so you start a new game with your own company deselected :D
05:44<andythenorth>seems to
05:44<TrueBrain>storing it in the save seems silly
05:44<TrueBrain>just reset on load/new game, I guess
05:45<andythenorth>I can confirm the report
05:45<andythenorth>at least for op. profit graph
05:45<andythenorth>it could cause failure demand I guess, user might wonder why their company is not shown
05:46<TrueBrain>put steps to reproduce down :)
05:47<andythenorth>I screenshot
05:47<TrueBrain>you go girl!
05:50<andythenorth>I am going to make a TrueBrain filter for irc
05:50<LordAro>/ignore TrueBrain
05:50<TrueBrain>its what I always do
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05:57<andythenorth>TrueBrain: so where's my assigned issue? o_O
05:58<TrueBrain>in your mailbox? Or search for it :)
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05:58<TrueBrain>(Assignee -> Me)
05:59<andythenorth>found it
05:59<andythenorth>weird I don't get notified
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06:05<TrueBrain>I am creating a new ticket :( Saddddd
06:06<andythenorth>I am dumb
06:06<andythenorth>I can't see how to update my github fork of OpenTTD
06:06<andythenorth>I guess google knows
06:06<TrueBrain>git remote add upstream
06:06<TrueBrain>git fetch upstream
06:06<andythenorth>oh I just do remotes
06:07<TrueBrain>git rebase upstream/master
06:07<andythenorth>I assumed there was a better way
06:07<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: I think the (only) GitHub project is mislabelled. Pango can't replace ICU because as far as I can see it doesn't do collation or sorting. What it does is layout (which what was removed from ICU), but the engine itself is HarfBuzz which removes the need for Cairo, GLib etc.
06:07<TrueBrain>michi_cc: talk to LordAro, as I just repeated what he told me :D
06:08<TrueBrain>I have no knowledge of ICU or Pango :)
06:08<LordAro>but yeah, it was only intended to replace the layout stuff, sorting stays as ICU
06:08<TrueBrain>people lie to me :(
06:08<LordAro>(as the layout stuff has been deprecated and removed from ICU)
06:08<+michi_cc>Then you really only want HarfBuzz, as Pango is a complete text rendering engine down to the pixels.
06:08<LordAro>i've been looking at pango all morning, and it is exceptionally lacking in documentation
06:09<TrueBrain>because if ICU changes, a few tickets should be prioritized differently :)
06:09<+michi_cc>There's a drop-in ICU layout replacement:
06:09<LordAro>and yeah, with all the extra stuff it pulls in, (cairo, glib, etc) i think some more minimal alternative might be better
06:10<LordAro>michi_cc: interesting
06:10<LordAro>feel like it'd be "better" to do it properly though
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06:10<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I made changes :)
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06:12<LordAro> is as far as i've got anyway
06:13<andythenorth>so to do a PR, for a docs change, do I need to branch in my fork?
06:13<andythenorth>or push on master?
06:13<andythenorth>(docs only)
06:13<TrueBrain>no, to a branch
06:13<LordAro>andythenorth: for a change you don't expect to last very long, it's probably fine to use master
06:13<TrueBrain>as soon as you psuh, GitHub helps you with the rest
06:13<LordAro>as far as git/GH is concerned, it's just another branch
06:13<TrueBrain>NO LordAro NO
06:13<TrueBrain>NEVER use master in your fork :)
06:13<LordAro>but it's good to keep them synced
06:14<+michi_cc>LordAro: Yeah, but the lib is probably a good way to see how functionality maps.
06:14<TrueBrain>BAD LordAro :)
06:14<LordAro>TrueBrain: go on then, why does it matter :p
06:14<TrueBrain>your PR, when accepted in upstream master, will have another hash; in result, you NEED to do a force push on your master if you resync
06:14<TrueBrain>really bad practice :)
06:14<LordAro>yeah, but it's *your* master
06:14<LordAro>it's irrelevant
06:14<TrueBrain>always make a branch; it is cheap, doesnt cost you anything, etc
06:15<TrueBrain>do what you like in your fork; please don't teach others to do that :) Gives you a lot of more explaining to do :)
06:15<TrueBrain>so andythenorth, git branch -b docs_name_whatever
06:15<TrueBrain>git push
06:15<TrueBrain>(git will help you with the rest)
06:17<TrueBrain>andythenorth: #5198 , can you explain this to me in plain english? (if you understand it :D)
06:20<andythenorth>TrueBrain: nope
06:20<andythenorth>I don't understand timetables
06:20<andythenorth>they have a terrible UI
06:20<andythenorth>and they don't actually work
06:20<andythenorth>but still...billions of feature requests
06:21<andythenorth>one big ticket: timetables are broken
06:21<andythenorth>sorry, timetables piss me off :)
06:21<LordAro>convince ic111 to redo their timetables branch
06:21<andythenorth>not being helpful
06:21<TrueBrain>very helpful, closed the ticket :)
06:22<andythenorth>I don't think anybody understands them
06:22<andythenorth>the whole idea of changing vehicle speed to hit the timetable is voodoo
06:23<TrueBrain>lol @ screenshot of #4540
06:23<TrueBrain>I was like .. how bad can it be
06:24<andythenorth>ha ha
06:24<andythenorth>don't use conditional orders :D
06:25<frosch123>so, when listing rev hashes in the commit message: how long should it be? i use rev-parse --short which gives different lengths for whatever, truebrain said 7 in #6711. does this even need to be defined, or do we allow whatever?
06:25<andythenorth>have we got any ticket number format / bot?
06:25<andythenorth>oh frosch123 has same q
06:26<andythenorth>synchronous :P
06:26<TrueBrain>frosch123: funny addition, if you click Squash, GitHub makes it 7 for you :)
06:26<andythenorth>well frosch means hashes, but eh
06:26<andythenorth>standard commit formats?
06:26<TrueBrain>(and I just said GitHub makes it 7! I have no other opinion on the matter)
06:26<andythenorth>we used to have "FS#6114" or so in commits?
06:27<andythenorth>(#6114) ?
06:27<LordAro>wait, when did frosch123 get here
06:27<andythenorth>10:57am innit
06:28<TrueBrain>poor LordAro, feels offguard :D
06:28<andythenorth>let's see how wrong I can get a PR :P
06:28<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, we have a fixed format for issue numbers, we even have a bot which enforces them
06:29<TrueBrain>frosch123: we should check the hash exists I guess in the commit-checker btw ..
06:29<TrueBrain>might avoid pointing to a fix in your own branch or something
06:29<andythenorth>Docs not Doc
06:29<andythenorth>in my commit
06:29<TrueBrain>git rebase -i upstream/master
06:29<TrueBrain>change 'pick' in reword!
06:29<TrueBrain>(or just git commit --amend)
06:30<andythenorth>I prefer amend :P
06:30<frosch123>TrueBrain: does that work with your shallow clones on jenkins?
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06:30<TrueBrain>frosch123: currently they are not shallow :)
06:31<TrueBrain>and I think that remains that way
06:31<TrueBrain>I just do have to cache it, I noticed :P
06:31<TrueBrain>andythenorth: 241, and I reached the last ticket
06:31<andythenorth>let's see what I did wrong
06:31<TrueBrain>3 bug tickets left I didnt dare touching ..
06:32<TrueBrain>andythenorth: please rebase, instead of merges :)
06:32<TrueBrain>and how did you get twice the same commit in there?
06:32<TrueBrain>that is not amending :)
06:32<TrueBrain>lol; sorry, but what did you do?! :D
06:32<andythenorth>that is good q
06:32<TrueBrain>I really have no clue how you did this :D
06:33<andythenorth>I suspect our work git workflow is a lot looser
06:33<TrueBrain>no ... I somewhat doubt that :)
06:33<andythenorth>what's in my gitconfig I wonder
06:33<TrueBrain>you have your own commit twice in there :)
06:33<TrueBrain>and you merged your own branch in your own branch
06:34<andythenorth>not explicitly
06:34<TrueBrain>the merge is of both those commits
06:34<andythenorth>I am reading my shell
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06:35<andythenorth>the merge comes on pull
06:35<andythenorth>because I have an amended local commit, I assume
06:35<andythenorth>there's no 'git merge'
06:35<TrueBrain>owh, so you pushed your branch
06:35<TrueBrain>did an amend
06:35<andythenorth>and then it has to merge
06:35<TrueBrain>then pulled your own branch from remote
06:35<TrueBrain>well, no, but I understand where it went wrong :)
06:36<andythenorth>I can not do that
06:36<TrueBrain>what you normally do after an amend, is a force push
06:36<andythenorth>I'm just 5 years habit of doing that :P
06:36<andythenorth>oh force push is banned at work :P
06:36<TrueBrain>not a pull :)
06:36<TrueBrain>yes, for good reason
06:36<TrueBrain>but if you ban force push, you ban amand too
06:36<TrueBrain>those two go side-by-side
06:36<TrueBrain>amand .. lol
06:36<andythenorth>but if I didn't push, amend is fine? o_O
06:37<TrueBrain>on GitHub, if you didn't make a Pull Request, force pushes are fine
06:37<TrueBrain>after that it seems to break Github :D
06:37<TrueBrain>as long as you stay in your own fork, everything is fine, basically :P
06:37<andythenorth>ok it's a brave new world
06:38<andythenorth>so how to unfuck it?
06:38<andythenorth>I can just make a new branch TBH
06:38<TrueBrain>if you run:
06:38<TrueBrain>git rebase -i upstream/master
06:38<TrueBrain>you see both of your commits
06:38<TrueBrain>remove the one with a broken commit message
06:39<TrueBrain>(depending on your editor, there is a way to remove whole lines)
06:39<TrueBrain>save and exit the editor
06:39<TrueBrain>git push -f
06:40<TrueBrain>(or make a new branch and cherry-pick your commit, or just make a new branch and do it again :P)
06:40<andythenorth>let's learn how to rebase
06:40<andythenorth>I want 'drop'
06:41<TrueBrain>I like how verbose interactive rebasing is :)
06:42<TrueBrain>frosch123: what is your opinion about #6597, #6590 and #6521. Do you think any of those are going to be picked up in the next year or so, and are they truly worth fixing?
06:43<frosch123>6597 is mb not understanding the specs
06:43<TrueBrain>so we can close it?
06:44<frosch123>6590 is valid, possibly "good first issue". reasoning: it works like this for plain rail, and is good. stations differ for no reason
06:44<frosch123>6521 is again bs
06:45<frosch123>mb failing at basic logic
06:45<TrueBrain>but I cannot reply that :)
06:45<TrueBrain>and I dont understand most of what is writtenthere :P
06:47<TrueBrain>frosch123: would you mind leaving your reasoning in that ticket and closing it up?
06:47<andythenorth>I'm confused by that ticket
06:47<andythenorth>but I have same cargo refits in Sam
06:47<andythenorth>they work
06:47<andythenorth>also the ticket starts talking about A and takes a massive left turn into B and C
06:47<TrueBrain>that really did not help
06:48<frosch123>commented and closed
06:48<TrueBrain>okay ... so many labels .. do we want to keep labels on closed tickets, or do we not care ..
06:48<TrueBrain>thank you frosch123!
06:48<TrueBrain>that only leaves hidden PRs in the issues .. rest is either closed or classified :D
06:49<TrueBrain>keeping labels for historical reasons seems weird I guess
06:50<TrueBrain>owh, I forgot lunch! bbl :)
06:51<frosch123>burned pizza :p
06:52<andythenorth>TrueBrain: I wanted to get rid of a few labels, not all
06:52<andythenorth>'script' is not useful
06:53<andythenorth>and people have used it wrong a lot
06:53<andythenorth>also less fucked up
06:54<frosch123>"core" is useless, category was obligatory on fs
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06:54<frosch123>"build system" is useless. everyone able to report that, would make a pr
06:55<frosch123>most of the old features are probably useless
06:55<frosch123>probably "NewGRF" is enough instead of "NewXX"
06:56<andythenorth>I wondered
06:56<andythenorth>'timetables' and 'vehicles'?
06:56<andythenorth>'vehicles' and 'newgrf'
06:56<andythenorth>might be fine
06:57<frosch123>so, imho delete: articulated, autoreplace, brdige, build system, clone vehicles, core, electrified rails, newcargos, newindustries, newobject, newstations, script, tgp, trams, vehicles
06:57<frosch123>possibly also merge "noai" and "goal/game script" into one
06:57<frosch123>not sure about the name
06:58<andythenorth>there was 'script'
06:58<andythenorth>was/is, but I found it confusing
06:58<frosch123>yes, but too unspecific
06:58<andythenorth>people are using it for random crap
06:58<frosch123>there is also console :)
07:01<andythenorth>ugh typo
07:02<andythenorth>most ridiculous docs update ever
07:11<frosch123>cleaned up some of the labels, merging various ones into one, deleting those with only "random" task assigned to them
07:11<frosch123>i am unsure about all the labels for close reasons
07:11<frosch123>maybe TrueBrain has an opinon on them
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07:26<andythenorth>239 issues
07:26<andythenorth>can't see how to get any more out
07:26<andythenorth>other than solving them, or invalidating after investigation
07:26<frosch123>turn all "build system" ones into PRs :)
07:27<andythenorth>ok so what next TrueBrain?
07:27<andythenorth>some kind of priority?
07:27<andythenorth>'top 100' project?
07:35<TrueBrain>so yeah, labels .. do we care about closed issues?
07:35<TrueBrain>as if we remove a label, it is also "removed" on closed issues (you cannot search on them anymore)
07:35<TrueBrain>seems weird to have that as reason to not remove it, I guess
07:37<TrueBrain>frosch123: how did you merge labels?
07:37<TrueBrain>ah, manual :D
07:38<andythenorth>I am not massively interested in preserving label history
07:38<andythenorth>it's ephemeral imho
07:38<TrueBrain>in that case, let me try something .. curious if this works ..
07:38<andythenorth>make it do what we need for any moment in time
07:38<frosch123>TrueBrain: filter issue for label, select all, mass apply new label, delete old label
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07:39<TrueBrain>frosch123: ah! That would have worked too .. smart :D
07:39<TrueBrain>I now just removed a bunch of labels with no good reason what so ever :P
07:39<TrueBrain>(only on closed tickets)
07:39<frosch123>i only did it on open ones the first time though :p
07:39<frosch123>for gs/ai i also applied it to closed ones
07:39<TrueBrain>4492 closed tickets
07:39<TrueBrain>yeah ... that is going to take too long
07:40<TrueBrain>(I want to remove "bug from FlySpray")
07:40<andythenorth>so the 'from Flyspray' labels look like they're no longer needed?
07:40<TrueBrain>guess I just remove it :P
07:40<frosch123>what about duplicate, external, invalid, knownissue, wonfix and worksforme?
07:40<frosch123>they are close reasons
07:40<TrueBrain>yeah .. github tends to do that
07:41<frosch123>but would you apply any of them when closing? :p
07:41<TrueBrain>I dont really see any point in it tbh
07:41<TrueBrain>get ride of them already :P
07:41<LordAro>iirc GH has a "duplicate" link helper nowadays
07:42<TrueBrain>I really wonder if labels like Network, and Pathfinder are of any use
07:42<TrueBrain>but we will see
07:42<andythenorth>it's all project management theatre
07:42<andythenorth>at work, we mostly have 'now', 'backlog', 'not this year'
07:43<TrueBrain>I do like "Interface" as in general different people do Interface vs other things
07:43<andythenorth>and sometimes tags so we can filter
07:43<frosch123>TrueBrain: imho yes. fixing them requires special knowledge, and the tasks in those categories use the label correctly
07:43<TrueBrain>priority and severity
07:43<TrueBrain>frosch123: fair enough
07:43<andythenorth>get rid of the close reasons?
07:43<frosch123>rule of thumb: labels make sense when people are able to apply them correctly :)
07:44<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I assumed frosch123 was removing them already :P
07:44<frosch123>priority and severity sound useless to me
07:44<frosch123>does anyone look for that?
07:44<TrueBrain>minor vs critical can be very useful
07:44<TrueBrain>as a new release should have no critical
07:44<TrueBrain>just helps managing milestones
07:44<TrueBrain>but we will see over time
07:45<TrueBrain>okay, I gave all categories the same color
07:46<frosch123>19 labels? where did they all go?
07:46<TrueBrain>in the bin
07:46<TrueBrain>46 good-first-issues
07:46<TrueBrain>not bad
07:47<TrueBrain>and a big variation
07:48<TrueBrain>35 that needs triage
07:48<TrueBrain>and a shitload of patches
07:49<TrueBrain>what shall we do first ..
07:49*frosch123 does
07:50<LordAro>will translators be able to push directly to the repo?
07:50<TrueBrain>do you want to accept a PR every night?
07:50<LordAro>hence the question :p
07:52<TrueBrain>so 39 issues to close before weekend ends ..
07:54<TrueBrain>#4684 .. is that something we want?
07:55<TrueBrain>as you can also go the other way, that shift never executes anything
07:56<andythenorth>ok /me BBL
07:56<andythenorth>maybe it's 200 when I return :D
07:56<andythenorth>lol innit
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08:36<TrueBrain>weird .. I just forced pushed to my branch, and the PR updated correctly
08:36<TrueBrain>frosch123: to what did you force push your updated PR?
08:37<TrueBrain>and can you try rebasing and pushing again? (to your own fork)
08:45<frosch123>rebased and pushed, jenkins job is queued
08:45<frosch123>let's see
08:45<TrueBrain>nope, didnt change anything
08:45<TrueBrain>weird it worked for me
08:45<TrueBrain>I dont see what would be different
08:46<frosch123>well, apparently we were not the only ones with that issue, so maybe it gets fixed next week
08:47<TrueBrain>I just wonder how what I do and what you do differ ..
08:47<TrueBrain>or if it is RNG
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08:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: i pushed while jenkins was still building
08:47<TrueBrain>doesnt matter; jenkins only pulls it at the start
08:47<TrueBrain>than never again
08:47<frosch123>but github did not receive a result from the check yet
08:48<TrueBrain>I really hope that doesnt matter at all, as those are separate
08:48<TrueBrain>it is the git informing of the wrong data
08:48<TrueBrain>status of commits are tracked outside of git
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08:48<TrueBrain>but we also had a PR with the same issue, where Jenkins was already finished
08:48<TrueBrain>so that seems to be completely unrelated
08:49<TrueBrain>if not, GH has some serious issues :D
08:49<frosch123>it broke on their 10th aniversary
08:49<frosch123>must be related :)
08:53<TrueBrain>I hate that you cannot see tweets and responses on twitter without an account
08:53<TrueBrain>which I refuse
08:58<TrueBrain>good conversation, tnx :)
08:59<frosch123>that changed last year
08:59<frosch123>was possible before
08:59<TrueBrain>yup; I really hate this attitude more and more companies have
08:59<TrueBrain>gating information
09:00<LordAro>nope, don't understand, you can see tweets and responses fine when not logged in
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09:02<frosch123>LordAro: <- click "Tweets & replies" at the top
09:03<frosch123>haha, people thanking for "bugs" fixed, which probably never were bugs :)
09:04<LordAro>well, you can still look at individual tweets fine
09:05<peter1138>I have an account, and I can't click on Tweets & Replies.
09:05<peter1138>But only on OpenTTDnews. I can for other tweet users.
09:09<TrueBrain>I find it weird that not many more projects have issues with forced pushes tbh ..
09:10<peter1138>Maybe they don't do it?
09:10<TrueBrain>googling for github is annoying, with so many unrelated hits ..
09:12<frosch123>i test-pushed an additional commit to the branch, let's see what happens when not-force pushing for once
09:13<TrueBrain>that did work
09:13<TrueBrain>and if you now remove it again? :D
09:13<frosch123>i'll wait until jenkins is done and then force-push a removal :)
09:14<TrueBrain>I can help speeding up that process
09:14<TrueBrain>there you go
09:17<TrueBrain>that worked :o
09:17<frosch123>hmm, did you trigger it again?
09:17<TrueBrain>it takes a few seconds for Jenkins to say it is working on it, and your hash already had a failed result on it
09:17<TrueBrain>(but that was because it could not find the hash)
09:17<TrueBrain>but I now see the correct ref in my local git checkout
09:18<TrueBrain>so it really is a GitHub issue
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09:27<frosch123>pff, my eints test svn is too old, it does not know the certs to pull
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10:22<peter1138>Right, well, that's me and the bike cleaned off.
10:29<TrueBrain>you got to love that the only way I can test Jenkinsfiles, is by simply pushing them ... :(
10:39<peter1138>It works in a PR, no?
10:50<LordAro>ah, the fun of setting up/changing a CI environment
10:52<TrueBrain>"fun" he said
10:53<TrueBrain>writing a language that is poorly designed .. "fun"
10:57<TrueBrain>finally this seems valid groovy .. now lets see if it also does what I hope it does :D
11:10<TrueBrain>sorry for the spam LordAro :P
11:14<peter1138>Hmm, should I do this indirect railtypes thing?
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11:19<LordAro>TrueBrain: so spam, interestingly
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11:20<TrueBrain>hmm, been pushing to that PR like a mofo
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11:22<peter1138>Hmm, should I have a beer?
11:22<andythenorth>the sun is out
11:22<peter1138>It is, but I am no longer.
11:22<andythenorth>I would if I didn't have to drive
11:22<andythenorth>1st sun in 6 months
11:23<peter1138>There was a bit last week!
11:23<peter1138>Not as much though.
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11:23<andythenorth>peter1138 I had my actual coat off
11:23<andythenorth>I left my hat in the van
11:23<andythenorth>it must be summer already
11:23<peter1138>I had my legs out!
11:24<peter1138>Although they were mostly covered in mud.
11:25<TrueBrain>and the errors Jenkins give are totally useless
11:34<TrueBrain>I fully get why people just start a shells cript in Jenkins ...
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11:40<andythenorth>looks like we use a thing called groovy
11:40<andythenorth>and that has logic, that triggers shell scripts
11:40<TrueBrain>yes; that is why groovy is such fail; everyone runs to shell scripts as soon as they possibly can
11:41<TrueBrain>but, the CI now reports in a much nicer way the status to GitHub
11:41<TrueBrain>and it now first runs commit checkers, then clang/gcc on amd64, and only then i386
11:41<TrueBrain>and only after that, when I am done with it, OSX and mingw
11:42<andythenorth>blog post says it's painful eh
11:42<TrueBrain>so the most likely failures are as early as possible
11:42<TrueBrain>reducing waste on CPU
11:44<TrueBrain>still takes horribly long, but that is just OpenTTD :)
11:46<LordAro>needs more cpus
11:47<TrueBrain>what is really bad design, the 'parallel' statement cannot be restricted
11:47<TrueBrain>os it can really kill the machine
11:47<TrueBrain>normally you do node restriction or so, but because of dockers, that is far from easy
11:47<TrueBrain>owh well, it is a bit better now at least :)
11:48<TrueBrain>will add some memory to the machine later; might also greatly help :)
11:48<TrueBrain>ccache might also be really worth it ..
11:48<TrueBrain>now first, food and movie :)
11:54<frosch123>last time we named the project in eints "OpenTTD Trunk"... but "OpenTTD master" sounds weird
11:57<andythenorth>it's still trunk no?
11:57<andythenorth>master is just the git name for that branch eh :P
11:57<andythenorth>if we used hg we wouldn't switch the name to 'default'
11:57<andythenorth>that would be daft :)
11:57<frosch123>well, let's keep it at that, less work converting the eints data
11:58<frosch123>TrueBrain: i pushed, works more or less the same as
11:58<LordAro>could rename the branch to trunk :p
11:58<LordAro>no rules on "master" branch actually being called "master"
12:03<peter1138>Hmm, maybe I should mow the lawn.
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12:12<andythenorth>I'm supposed to be doing yoga to unfuck my back
12:12<andythenorth>but I got distracted playing ottd
12:20<andythenorth>someone should make a decent station set
12:25<peter1138>MB did that.
12:25<peter1138>And there's that other one.
12:25<LordAro>is MB the only person who understands grf stations?
12:26<frosch123>i think mart3p did the most advanced stuff
12:26<peter1138>LordAro, nah, I made some too.
12:27<LordAro>i seem to recall the station set Yexo (& andythenorth?) made was for the purposes of working out how to add stations to NML
12:27<LordAro>and then Yexo vanished
12:28<andythenorth>yexo didn't so much vanish, as get a job at Google
12:29<LordAro>oh that's where he went?
12:29<LordAro>@seen Yexo
12:29<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 5 years, 19 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
12:29<LordAro>ah, CHIPS
12:30<andythenorth>it's "fine"
12:30<andythenorth>it just lacks a bbit of pzazz
12:35<andythenorth>NML stations for 2020 release? o_O
12:38<peter1138>What's not understandable about newstations?
12:38<peter1138>newgrf station
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12:39<frosch123>the most silly part is that there are only 4 tile types, when there are 8 possible combinations of flags to assign to them
12:39<frosch123>that makes any high level language beyond arcane
12:43<peter1138>Well, different flags will be either dealt with by callbacks or just different station parts.
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12:46<peter1138>Maybe extend the spec to support industry-tile-like layouts.
12:46<peter1138>NML supports that, right?
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12:47<frosch123>yes, but the most weird aspect is still the track/non-track, pylon/no-pylon, wire/no-wire part
12:47<frosch123>every tilespec can pick 4 of them
12:52<peter1138>In ttdpatch world, non-track were always separate parts.
12:53<peter1138>But we could extend from 4 tiles to something else.
12:53<frosch123>hmm, there are no grfs which combine track and non-track in the same part?
12:54<frosch123>hmm, maybe that is a useful thing to enforce in nml then
12:54<peter1138>Doesn't it support callbacks to effectively have more than 4(8) layouts?
12:54<frosch123>no, you can have many spritelayouts, but only 4 tile layouts
12:55<frosch123>and tile layout only affects the 3 things above, and some "tile layout of adjacent tile" var
12:55<peter1138>CB 14
12:55<peter1138>"You can use this to have more than 4 different sprite sets to choose from."
12:55<frosch123>that's why i would like to completely hide the existence of tile layouts
12:56<frosch123>CB 14 is sprite layout
12:56<frosch123>cb 24 is tile layout
12:56<frosch123>cb 24 is called on constructon and stored in map
12:56<frosch123>cb 14 is called when drawing
12:56<frosch123>cb 24 decides non-track, wires, pylons
12:57<frosch123>cb 14 decides rest
12:57<frosch123>i would like to hide the existence of cb24 :p
12:58<frosch123>i..e. nml should not have a decide-tilelayout callback, but a decide wires/pylon callback
12:58<frosch123>while track/non-track is fixed
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13:01<andythenorth>I posted about stations, but logs show it didn't arrive :P
13:02<andythenorth>"their action 2, 3 chain doesn't work like industries"
13:02<andythenorth>"but eh, it's just weird, not broken"
13:03<frosch123>the a123 thing is a marginal difference imo
13:06<andythenorth>I just find it bizarre that the spritelayout is in the action 0
13:06<andythenorth>I guess it is what it is
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13:21<peter1138>I imagine if it was developed now it'd be the same as the others.
13:22<andythenorth>nml could hide it away
13:22<andythenorth>although that's a bit weird if you're me
13:23<andythenorth>I often use the nfo docs to write nml :P
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>if we were to revise station spec, i'd suggest splitting non-track from railway stations
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>so you have something resemling an object, but it affects station catchment
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>(and allow for the possibility to affect more than that, like base station rating or rating decay)
13:28<peter1138>Yeah but no, we'd like to keep compatible.
13:28<peter1138>Well, I would.
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>sure, keep the old spec, but make it deprecated
13:29<peter1138>Also, docks.
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>grand unified station spec
13:29<peter1138>Or disjointed.
13:29<peter1138>Airport Tiles are already separate.
13:30<peter1138>See, s/Airport Tiles/Station Tiles/ maybe...
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>i imagine things like "livestock pen: subtract 30 days from 'last visited' time for livestock rating calculation"
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>or 10*(2.5 days), or whatever unit we have there
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13:31<peter1138>Nothing much seems to be airport specific in them. Hmm.
13:31<peter1138>At least, spec-wise.
13:32<peter1138>Well, other than Airports are their own grf type.
13:32<peter1138>feature, I mean.
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13:33<andythenorth>station objects
13:33<andythenorth>station tiles
13:33*andythenorth words
13:34<peter1138>Road vehicles may need... yeah that.
13:34<peter1138>Also! Diagonal stations!
13:34<peter1138>That was a very old patch :p
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>well those would be trivial if you had statemachines
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>imagine the possibilities, you could have a hopper loading station that loads hoppers one-by-one and sends the train one vehicle forward each time
13:35<peter1138>Oh please.
13:36<andythenorth>I don't know if it's genius or the worst thing ever :P
13:36<andythenorth>I can watch hopper trains load on YT though :P
13:36<andythenorth>and even have
13:41<peter1138>I'm not sure a single-tile state machine will enable that :p
13:42<andythenorth>sad times
13:43<andythenorth>let's delete the repo :)
13:43<andythenorth>or not
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, if you take airports as a base, you probably need a statemachine for a (rectangular?) set of tiles
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>but if you want to extend that to train stations, you need the ability for two state machines to connect to each other to form one platform state machine
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14:11<TrueBrain>glx: we found out that if you push a fake commit to your branch, and push that; then remove the fake commit, and force push that, the PR unlocks :)
14:11<TrueBrain>("fake" commit is just anything)
14:11<TrueBrain>just as long as it is a new commit
14:11<TrueBrain>guess even an empty commit would do :)
14:12<TrueBrain>WTB: Jenkinsfile reviewer :)
14:13<TrueBrain>frosch123: lol; I merged 2 commits quickly; now the commit-checker failed on the first I merged, as it is not up-ot-date :D (as the second was already on top of it :D)
14:14<TrueBrain>that is funny :D
14:15<frosch123>so you are done with jenkins?
14:15<frosch123>i did not know whether you needed that pr just for testing
14:15<TrueBrain>owh, no, it is done :) Check the CI details :)
14:15<TrueBrain>arent they a lot better now? :)
14:15<frosch123>yes, read them earlier
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14:16<TrueBrain>wauw, someone did the README :)
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>"WTB" stands for "Weird TrueBrain"?
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14:20<TrueBrain>tnx frosch123 :)
14:22<Gagarin228>Hey, guys. I have original Transport Tycoon game (NOT Deluxe) and I want attach graphics from there to OpenTTD. So, I have files TREND.GRF, TRHCOM.GRF and other, is it possible to load it as game graphic set?
14:23<Gagarin228>Because OpenTTD "DOS graphic set" is from Deluxe.
14:23<Gagarin228>No any ways?
14:23<frosch123>deluxe has a lot more graphics
14:23<frosch123>you can load original savegames, but you can only use deluxe graphics
14:23<Gagarin228>It is another graphic.
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>Gagarin228: there is a "original conversion set" that tries to incorporate some original graphics
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>Gagarin228: but you still need a standard base set
14:24<Gagarin228>Well. Maybe it is possible in old OTTD versions?
14:25<andythenorth>my OpenTTD cursor keeps locking to left-side of screen
14:25<andythenorth>until I click
14:25<andythenorth>weird eh
14:26<TrueBrain>andythenorth: 235 .. best I can do for today :) :D
14:26<andythenorth>some actually need fixed eh :)
14:26<TrueBrain>there are a few easy ones
14:27<TrueBrain>but .. it seems it really needs work from there on out :)
14:28<andythenorth>cut out 50 as a targert
14:28<andythenorth>target *
14:28<andythenorth>make a 1.9.x release from it
14:28<andythenorth>or 1.8.x or whatever we're on
14:28<TrueBrain>setting milestones is not a bad idea tbh :)
14:28*andythenorth loses count
14:29<andythenorth>dunno if devs here like milestone thinking, it's a bit like being project managed
14:29<andythenorth>but for FIRS I have a burn-down list for each release
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>bugs go into 1.8.x, features go into 1.9.0
14:29<andythenorth>fair point
14:29<TrueBrain>its just nice to agree on what things you want to fix for the next release :)
14:29<andythenorth>and maybe group things
14:30<andythenorth>instead of random stuff here and htere
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>people will come at you with "but you promised this would be in release <X>" when you didn't do a thing
14:30<TrueBrain>anyone who says that, send them to me
14:30<TrueBrain>I will show them what I think of that attitude
14:30<andythenorth>paying customers can do that
14:30<TrueBrain>what was the quote .. "I will pay you back the money you paid us for doing this release"
14:31<andythenorth>pretty much
14:31<andythenorth>I return 100% of fee to unsatisfied customers
14:31<TrueBrain>then I will get a stick
14:31<andythenorth>no quibble
14:31<TrueBrain>and see how far I can stick it up .. wait .. wrong story-book
14:31<andythenorth>actually providing any warranty, even money back
14:31<andythenorth>probably violates wording of standard GPL
14:31<TrueBrain>I am a really big fan of Agile. I really like the rush of getting stuff done. The commitment really motivates
14:32<andythenorth>also I have 12 wagons that can carry copper in this grf
14:32<andythenorth>but I want more :P
14:32<TrueBrain>do you also have tin?
14:32<TrueBrain>then I can make brass out of it!
14:33<andythenorth>not in this economy
14:33<andythenorth>it's zinc
14:33<andythenorth>I had tin, but removed it
14:33<TrueBrain>no minecraft fan? Awh :(
14:36<TrueBrain>ccache (faster CI), OSX Docker, vpkg or cmake .. what to do first ..
14:36<LordAro>we've already broken OSX once :)
14:36<TrueBrain>OSX will be a cross-compiler
14:36<TrueBrain>that error would not have been picked up
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>is tin in minecraft nowadays?
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>i only played ancient versions, i think
14:39<LordAro>not without mods
14:40<TrueBrain>owh, I can also look into eints.. guess that is more important
14:40<TrueBrain>but that requires braincells
14:40<andythenorth>I seem to need 3 different kinds of metal wagon :P
14:40<andythenorth>maybe 4
14:40<andythenorth>bit weird
14:47<TrueBrain>right .. this Jenkins job is done, but is not finishing
14:47<TrueBrain>how annoying
14:48<TrueBrain>it didnt see a docker finished
14:49<TrueBrain>lets upgrade some things, and try again
14:49<Gagarin228>Well. I think it is possible to port TT graphics from DOS version to set for OTTD, but only manually and by skilled people. This is result after I chose TT’s GRF files in OTTD:
14:50<LordAro>i'm honestly surprised it got as far as that
14:51<Gagarin228>I hope, parts of understandable graphics is from old GRF-file, not glitched from another files.
14:51<Gagarin228>Just tried XD
14:51<andythenorth>@calc 136 / 235
14:51<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.578723404255
14:52<andythenorth>57% of issues are bugs :)
14:52<LordAro>the point remains though, that you're missing plenty of actual graphics
14:53<TrueBrain>right ... CF has more memory, and upgraded Jenkins .. lucky enough, that is trivial :D
14:54<TrueBrain>(shutdown, docker pull jenkins/jenkins, ./run_jenkins) :D
14:55<Gagarin228>It is possible to load saved game from TT for DOS, but it looks differently, so I thought about it.
14:56<frosch123>yes, you can load them. it converts everything to the closest match
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>Gagarin228: have you looked at ?
14:59<andythenorth>'squash the bugs' milestone? o_O
14:59<andythenorth>not glamorous, but healthy
14:59<TrueBrain>andythenorth: lets give it some room to breath :)
15:00<TrueBrain>yippie, made cloning a lot faster :D Jenkins has a solution for that :D (reference clones)
15:00<TrueBrain>that is going to save a lot of bandwidth :)
15:01<TrueBrain>wait, this machine has 8 cores .. why did I only assign 2 ..
15:02<TrueBrain>glx: I cancelled your build btw :)
15:02<TrueBrain>(so dont be surprised it is red now :D)
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15:02-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
15:02-!-tokai is "Christian Rosentreter" on +#openttd
15:03<TrueBrain>glx: yup, now we see the right commit again :) It will be build in a jiffy :)
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15:05<Eddi|zuHause><something about Giles and Buffy>
15:05<LordAro>TrueBrain: you should make redirect somewhere
15:05<TrueBrain>good point
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>man that was a long time ago
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: maybe also a ""?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>the link in the topic is a bit long though
15:07<TrueBrain>that is a good enough reason
15:07<TrueBrain>LordAro: a pull request that can be described as: the gift that keeps on giving :)
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15:13<TrueBrain>glx: please rebase your PR :)
15:13<TrueBrain>we really have to rethink our current demand of rebased before CI works, but .. it is what it is :(
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15:16<frosch123>TrueBrain: should we add an automatic rebase to the ci?
15:16<frosch123>reject if auto-rebase fails
15:16<TrueBrain>I like that idea
15:16<TrueBrain>I really do
15:17<TrueBrain>easy .. efficient
15:17<TrueBrain>let me try that in a bit :)
15:17<TrueBrain>LordAro: redirect in place
15:17-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
15:17-!-TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.8.0 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy
15:17-!-mode/#openttd [+l 99] by TrueBrain
15:17-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
15:17<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: there you go
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>next idea that i'm not sure about: have "" as clone url? might mess up people that try to update their old clones
15:20<frosch123>hmm, what is the fastest way to get to an issue if you have the number?
15:20<Gagarin228>Eddi|zuHause: I checked it… Thank you.
15:20<frosch123>i keep on editing the url myself
15:20<TrueBrain>frosch123: is what I do ..
15:20<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you can clone I think
15:20<Gagarin228>I have graphic conversion for save and save, but can’t use this newrgf in my save
15:20<TrueBrain>as it redirects to github :D
15:20<TrueBrain>just the old URL doesnt work
15:21<TrueBrain>and that is intentional
15:21<TrueBrain>if/when andy is done writing an article for the frontpage, svn:// is also going to be unavailable
15:21<TrueBrain>(will be svn://
15:21<TrueBrain>as otherwise a large portion of people will never notice this :)
15:21<TrueBrain>(upstream maintainers, mostly)
15:22<Gagarin228>Is it possible to change NewGRF for saved game? Or in game.
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: are there fancy "moved permanently" errors you can give out for people trying to access it?
15:23<TrueBrain>as far as I am aware, subversion has no MOTD
15:23<frosch123>he, jenkins also counts the queuing time to the duration... that's why the builds take so differently long
15:23<TrueBrain>frosch123: yes .. it is annoying me :P
15:23<LordAro>svn handles a 301 by telling you about it, rather than following the redirect
15:23<TrueBrain>glx: that didnt go well ..
15:23<LordAro>so people will notice
15:23<TrueBrain>no clue what happened
15:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: 301 over svn protocol?
15:24<+glx>I almost broke my local repo ;)
15:24<TrueBrain>what are you smoking? :D
15:24<LordAro>TrueBrain: ...shh
15:24<TrueBrain>glx: its really weird honestly .. github should do this for you
15:27<TrueBrain>frosch123: reason it does that (the duration), is because the master is available, the job starts .. then it needs a slave .. and that is blocked :)
15:29<+glx>svn was way easier for me :)
15:29<TrueBrain>centralized linear histories always are
15:30<LordAro>it should be simpler than it is currently being
15:30<TrueBrain>with my latest commit, rebasing is no longer a requirement
15:30<TrueBrain>guess that helps
15:31<LordAro>TrueBrain: i don't fully understand the point of doing that, can you explain?
15:31<TrueBrain>what part exactly?
15:31<TrueBrain>rebasing in the CI?
15:32<TrueBrain>when we are going to merge, we either rebase or squash, so on top
15:32<TrueBrain>the biggest worry we have, that a PR is stale, but no merge conflict
15:32<TrueBrain>so both options work
15:32<TrueBrain>but requiring that PRs are fresh, turns out to be annoying as fuck
15:32<TrueBrain>so there has to be a bit of middleground
15:32<LordAro>ah, i see
15:32<TrueBrain>now we rebase on CI
15:32<TrueBrain>so his result holds true for that current master and the content of the PR
15:33<TrueBrain>even if the PR was a few days old
15:33<TrueBrain>of course if master moves forward, PRs CI result invalidates
15:33<LordAro>makes sense, although it might be unclear to people exactly why their PR fails when running tests on their branch themselves works fine
15:33<TrueBrain>for that you have links :)
15:33<TrueBrain>you can click on a CI failure
15:34<TrueBrain>but of course it is up to the devs to instruct PR-authors how to proceed
15:34<TrueBrain>just a simple: can you please rebase to the latest master, goes a long way :)
15:36<LordAro>yeah, but the rebase can work fine, but still result in a build failure
15:36<LordAro>which could be unclear as to the reasons why
15:36<TrueBrain>there is no perfect solution :)
15:36<TrueBrain>but I rather know if I approve something, it will work in master
15:36<TrueBrain>than not have a confused PR author from time to time, and break master more often :)
15:37<TrueBrain>as the current: fail if the PR is not up-to-date, also turns out to be really annoying :)
15:37<+glx>even worse if you just rebased before doing the PR ;)
15:38<TrueBrain>ugh .. we need more build nodes :D
15:38<+glx>still queued
15:38<TrueBrain>15 minutes per CI check :)
15:39<+glx>and not yet checking MSVC
15:39<TrueBrain>ugh ... indeed
15:39<TrueBrain>I wonder how to add ccache .. having the cache survive is a bit tricky
15:47<Gagarin228>TTO Conversion v1.4.1 working. But it doesn’t much at all, only replaces little of tiles. Anyway I’m already tired for this today. Here is how looks graphics in TT for DOS and (below) "DOS graphic" in OTTD v1.8.0:
15:47<+glx>at least CI works this time
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16:06<TrueBrain>tnx glx :) Now lets try if my Jenkins-fix works :D (my PR is no longer up-to-date :D)
16:08<frosch123>5 succesful checks :)
16:10<frosch123>does git rebase return a negative status on conflicts?
16:10<TrueBrain>I hoped so :D
16:10<TrueBrain>didnt check
16:10<TrueBrain>good question
16:10<TrueBrain>lets find out :D
16:12<frosch123>docs only mention status in case of interactive rebase
16:12<TrueBrain>return code 128
16:14<frosch123>hmm, it only says "required" on the first check
16:14<TrueBrain>if he is green, they all are
16:14<TrueBrain>(and if one is red, he is too)
16:15<frosch123>ok, i thought that part was only the clone
16:16<TrueBrain>no; the jenkins entry is the total job that runs
16:16<TrueBrain>I cannot disable or manipulate it :D
16:16<TrueBrain>so I just extended on it, and from there, added a few others
16:16<TrueBrain>it is only meant to easier spot what went wrong
16:31-!-mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by DorpsGek
16:31-!-mode/#openttd [-l] by frosch123
16:32<@frosch123>since when has the channel limit only two digits?
16:32<+glx>last bot invasion maybe
16:32<LordAro>but there are 127 people here?
16:33<@frosch123>i set it to 150 after the last bots
16:33<+glx>or the previous one
16:33<@frosch123>now it suddenly was 99, and i cannot set it higher
16:33-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
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16:35<@frosch123>i guess you cannot reduce the number of people in this channel like you reduced the number of open issues :p
16:35<andythenorth>enforced #openttd break :P
16:36<andythenorth>exercise bike lacks a beer holder
16:36<andythenorth>they should remedy that
16:37<peter1138>So I did my exercise today.
16:37<peter1138>And then I went to a bloody all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet restaurant...
16:38<@frosch123>was everything fried, or was it a real chinese place?
16:39<peter1138>Fried? No, not everything.
16:42<andythenorth>@seen pikka
16:42<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again?
16:43<TrueBrain>frosch123: weird .. it was 120 last time I changed the topic
16:44<TrueBrain>euh .. not 120 .. well, above 100
16:44<TrueBrain>as it made me laugh we still had a limit
16:44-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:44<TrueBrain>[21:17] *** You set the channel limit to 99 nicks.(I18N_PLURAL_ARGUMENT_MISSING)
16:44<TrueBrain>ah ... so I did it with changing the topic
16:44<@frosch123>i set it permanently when this channel performed worst on oftc :)
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16:45<@frosch123>one time >1000 bots joined
16:45<TrueBrain>andythenorth: how is the announcement going? :)
16:45<@frosch123>ottd was 1st channel on oftc :)
16:45<andythenorth>I was considering closing the paste tab I have open :P
16:45<andythenorth>are comms over-rated?
16:45<TrueBrain>frosch123: w00p!
16:46<TrueBrain>why are we not moving to Slack or something? :)
16:46<TrueBrain>Discord? :P
16:46<TrueBrain>I dislike Discord with many people
16:46<TrueBrain>makes my head spin
16:46<@frosch123>how many are many?
16:46<TrueBrain>right, left a pro-GDPR post on the forums :D
16:46<TrueBrain>here 1 line of text is 1 line of text
16:46<TrueBrain>on Discord it has this whole bla around it
16:47<TrueBrain>2 lines + a <hr>
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>we should move to freenode!
16:47<TrueBrain>fuck freenode
16:47<TrueBrain>for the shit they pulled, I never forgive them I guess :D
16:47<TrueBrain>not bitter
16:47<+glx>I'm on freenode, it's a pain to manage channels
16:48<andythenorth>armchair GDPR stuff eh?
16:48<@frosch123>how about eddi moves to freenode? :p
16:48-!-sla_ro|master [] has quit []
16:49<TrueBrain>frosch123: only if mb goes with him :D
16:49*andythenorth wants an armchair exercise bike
16:49<peter1138>I have a recumbent exercise bike, it's pretty similar.
16:49<@frosch123>get a pedel-powered irc chat device
16:49<TrueBrain>and I got cookies
16:50<peter1138>No you don't, I ate them.
16:50<TrueBrain>so I went to
16:50<TrueBrain>got plenty moe
16:50<@frosch123>you buy cookies at amazon?
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>better than "I 'ate them"
16:50<andythenorth>not quite a haiku
16:50<andythenorth>I can't hailku
16:50<TrueBrain>frosch123: nope, THEY ARE FREE
16:50<TrueBrain>(even if you dont want to)
16:51<andythenorth>peter1138: is it actually any good, recumbent?
16:51<TrueBrain>lol @ andythenorth
16:51<andythenorth>I sometimes bust my back on an upright back
16:51<andythenorth>bike *
16:51<@frosch123>oh, you meant to cookies without sugar and fat
16:51<peter1138>Dunno, I've never done a long ride on a recumbent.
16:51<andythenorth>I ride 10km max in one go
16:51<andythenorth>but I want to do more
16:51-!-snail_UES_ [] has quit [Quit: snail_UES_]
16:52<peter1138>Well I've done longer than that on it.
16:52<andythenorth>everything goes fine, then 'ping' in my back and sciatica for 3 days
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the announcement should probably adress some of the things mentioned in the forum, like how the development process is now going to be handled, how to make pull requests, how to continue to use hg for local develipment, how to communicate with the devs and stuff
16:52<andythenorth>it would be funny to put in 50km a day
16:52<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's
16:53<peter1138>I did 60km today.
16:53<andythenorth>and mostly tbh I don't care about that stuff, so I'm wrong person to write it
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's fine, but it should also be in the announcement
16:53<TrueBrain>so finish :D
16:53<LordAro>peter1138: i walked to the shops today and thought that i should've gone riding todya
16:53<andythenorth>let's bikeshed where the words should be
16:53<andythenorth>before there are words :)
16:53<LordAro>hopefully it's as nice weather tomorrow
16:53<andythenorth>legitimate use of bikeshedding here
16:54<peter1138>Yeah, I intend to go tomorrow, after that big fat chinese :(
16:54<andythenorth>I've seen people use 'bikeshedding' to try and avoid sweating details
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you just want a reason to get out of writing it in the first place :p
16:54<andythenorth>I wrote two already
16:54<andythenorth>nobody thought they were good
16:54<peter1138>I am bikeshedding my bikeshed.
16:54<andythenorth>you should
16:54<andythenorth>what colour?
16:55<@frosch123>TrueBrain: why does 6718 fail with "not on top of master"?
16:55<@frosch123>oh wait... i know
16:55<@frosch123>it's too old to have the jenkinsfile with the rebase :)
16:56<TrueBrain>he needs to rebase before he no longer has to rebase :)
16:56<@frosch123>this is so weird :)
16:56<TrueBrain>andythenorth / LordAro: but I could really use a .. we keep talking about it, but it would be really nice
16:57<@frosch123>didn't someone post an example from some other project two days ago?
16:57<andythenorth>I did
16:57<TrueBrain>and then it stopped :(
17:00<LordAro>i think some combination of that and a summary of Coding Style wiki page (at least the commit messages section - that's going to be the most common problem i think) would do great
17:00<@frosch123>i feel like that page is too long
17:01<@frosch123>it should contain links to other pages to split it up
17:02<andythenorth>it's somewhat a github suggestion
17:02<LordAro>frosch123: hence "summary"
17:02<andythenorth>one long is kind of suggested
17:03<andythenorth>we don't have to comply
17:03<LordAro>i agree, the whole doc should be shorter than bootstrap's, imo
17:03<andythenorth>oh yeah we can cut 50%
17:03<andythenorth>etherpad would be nice for this :P
17:04<andythenorth>we don't have one do we? o_O
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, of course nobody will read it. but we need it to point people to when they are wrong
17:04<andythenorth>that's what policy is for
17:05<andythenorth>we could put it in a PR :P
17:05<andythenorth>and then all bikeshed lines
17:05<andythenorth>let's list sections to delete....
17:05<andythenorth>- Reporting upstream browser bugs
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>there should be no section 4.2
17:05<andythenorth>- Issues bots
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>because that conflicts with the most referenced readme section :p
17:06<@frosch123>"4.2. if you were sent to section 4.2, then 4.2 in [[this document]] was meant"
17:06<andythenorth>where is code style living?
17:07<@frosch123>and it's way too long to put into CONTRIBUTING
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>there used t be an ancient "development blackbook" section of the wiki, that was marked as outdated right from the beginning
17:07<andythenorth>dunno what my hatred for mediawiki styles is :)
17:08<@frosch123>probably there should be links to "code style", "documentation style"; "commit message style" and "client-side commit hook"
17:08<andythenorth>maybe it reminds me of old plone
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>maybe mediawiki is your equivalent to brusselssprouts? :p
17:09<andythenorth>bikeshedding again :)
17:10*andythenorth tries reducing Bootstrap
17:11<andythenorth>we can steal Bootstrap's, yes?
17:11<andythenorth>it's MIT
17:12<TrueBrain>just mention it etc
17:16<peter1138>Failed to get repository: database is locked
17:16<peter1138>Hmm :/
17:19<andythenorth>first draft
17:19<andythenorth>just a cut of stuff we don't need
17:19<andythenorth>could PR it if we want to line-by-line comment :P
17:20<andythenorth>I think it can lose another 30% tbh
17:21<@frosch123>i agree on not listing the issue labels
17:22<andythenorth>when you have got to end, I'll revise another draft
17:22<@frosch123>"check if the issue has been fixed" should probably mention nightly instead of master
17:23-!-agentw4b [~agentw4b@] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
17:25-!-synchris [~synchris@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:26<TrueBrain>"You must select a language other than 'text' for this paste." wtf?
17:27<TrueBrain>why on earth?!
17:27<@frosch123> <- andythenorth: that would be our fork process
17:28<@frosch123>wow, when did you write that?
17:29<TrueBrain>fuck kittens:
17:29<TrueBrain>frosch123: in the time between andythenorth showing his poem and now
17:29<TrueBrain>fuck pastebin
17:29<TrueBrain>it is annoying
17:29<@frosch123>his -> its
17:30<TrueBrain>which his? :P
17:30<@frosch123>openttd is not male
17:30<TrueBrain>okay, we need a beter way to fix my spelling errors :D
17:30<TrueBrain>as I am sure you have many more things to fix frosch123 :D
17:30<TrueBrain>(my grammer is not that good)
17:31<TrueBrain>what is a good online tool for sharing documents that doesnt need downloading?
17:31<LordAro>for collaborative editing? google docs, probably
17:32<LordAro>piratepad is a bit simpler
17:32<TrueBrain>frosch123: feel free to make any changes :)
17:33<TrueBrain>somehow it become tits :D
17:34<@frosch123>TrueBrain: somewhere the fs migration should mention that issue numbers were kept
17:34<TrueBrain>good point
17:34<TrueBrain>hmm .. piratepad no workie
17:34<TrueBrain>lost connection :D
17:35<TrueBrain>LordAro: what did you do?! :P
17:37<LordAro>ok yeah, this sucks
17:37<TrueBrain>ffs ... every time I lose connection when I am typing
17:37<TrueBrain>other suggestions?
17:37<TrueBrain>connection simply goes stale
17:37<LordAro> how about this one? does markdown too
17:38<TrueBrain>lets go for that
17:38<andythenorth>CONTRIBUTING is now shorter again
17:38<andythenorth>and I stole some TB words about closing feature requests
17:40<andythenorth>also this is probably a whole extra post some day "This of course means that "official" OpenTTD gets into competition with Patchpacks; and we approve of this. We are fully aware it can lead to a Patchpack being more popular than "official" OpenTTD; and we will be upfront about that."
17:40<__ln__>"We ditched .... I strongy advise ..."
17:40<andythenorth>^^ enabling patchpacks is a strong argument for keeping core minimal, and continuing to push as much as possible onto content
17:41<andythenorth>but also not making the content APIs batshit crazy
17:43<TrueBrain>added some stuff about VCSes
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd spell it "AIs" instead of "AIS"
17:44<TrueBrain>who ever added \ before +, I copy/paste this on tt-forums; no need for \ :)
17:44<TrueBrain>or do you suggest I copy/paste the render? :D
17:44<TrueBrain>I like that piratepad showed what was edited :P
17:45<andythenorth>we use etherpad at work for similar thing
17:45<TrueBrain>it needed a download :(
17:45<andythenorth>it's really good for spec, also ops firefighting
17:45<andythenorth>also drafting customer emails
17:47<TrueBrain>sadly, I'm in the line of work where putting anything on any cloud is a big no-no
17:47<TrueBrain>makes these things often a bit harder
17:47<andythenorth>hoped you'd say that
17:47<andythenorth>TrueBrain: we host our own etherpad
17:48<andythenorth>we're very limited on public cloud services we can use
17:48<andythenorth>ISO 27001 innit
17:48<@frosch123>TrueBrain: awesome text :)
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: at best, a link to a wiki page tracking "good" feature requests. or simply a link to the forums
17:48<TrueBrain>ty :)
17:49<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that wiki page exists and is rotting horribly :)
17:49<andythenorth>I just wonder if it shold be like known_bugs.txt
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>i would expect so :p
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: possible, but then have it in a separate file
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: problem is, it still has to be kept up to date
17:50<andythenorth>it's not hard imho
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so forum is really probably the only place to go
17:50<andythenorth>it's 5 lines
17:50<andythenorth>- overtaking: no
17:50<andythenorth>- subways: no
17:50<andythenorth>- signals on bridges: no
17:50<andythenorth>- diagonal roads: no
17:50<andythenorth>- tunnels under sea: no
17:51<andythenorth>incidentally the average forum / FS requester overlaps strongly with my 8 year old
17:51<andythenorth>he has many many ideas
17:52<__ln__>win-win-win-win = -2win
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>"The issue tracker is the preferred channel for bug reports, features requests and submitting pull requests, but please respect the following restrictions:" <-- i'd take feature requests out of this sentence
17:52<andythenorth>oh look I edited this sometime
17:52<andythenorth>done Eddi|zuHause
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>there should be an explanation what a "pull request" is for people who never heard that word before
17:54<andythenorth>can't they google? o_O
17:54<andythenorth>if they can't, they won't be able to learn C++
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>wrong argument
17:54<andythenorth>provide a better one? o_O
17:54<__ln__>i started learning C++ before google existed
17:55<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I added eggs to my text :D
17:55<andythenorth>is it in forums yet?
17:55<TrueBrain>still reading it over
17:55<andythenorth>very responsible :)
17:58<TrueBrain>NO STOP THAT
17:58<LordAro>i know
17:58<TrueBrain>I am guess LordAro
17:58<TrueBrain>stooppppp making it non copy/pastable :)
17:58<LordAro>it's just the one!
17:58<TrueBrain>its enough! :P
17:58<TrueBrain>its not a markup post! :P
17:59<LordAro>not really an issue as such, but the number of ; in it is interesting
17:59<LordAro>native speakers rarely use ; at all
17:59<TrueBrain>I love ;
17:59<TrueBrain>people dont use it enough
17:59<TrueBrain>I cannot use it in Dutch
17:59<TrueBrain>well, I can, but not really
17:59<TrueBrain>so yeah ... :D
18:00<TrueBrain>in English it doesnt do anything really :)
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>i find myself using , in a lot of places other people would use .
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i go back over sentences changing some , into .
18:01<LordAro>i've found myself using far too many , as well
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>i have no real use for ;
18:01<TrueBrain>the use of ,is far more strict than I would like; hence the ; :D
18:02<LordAro>most people would say the opposite :p
18:02<TrueBrain>(a typical case where I could have used it in Dutch .. dammit!)
18:02<@frosch123>i approve any excessive use of ;
18:02<TrueBrain>I leave LordAro making tons of grammar fixes for a bit :)
18:03<TrueBrain>let me know when you are done :)
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really care about other people's rules for , then :p
18:03<TrueBrain>in Dutch the , is even worse. Everything between two , you should be able to remove, without the lose of context
18:03<TrueBrain>basically it means you can never use it :P
18:03<TrueBrain>you can only use it to shit on things
18:04<TrueBrain>I do like to use words in these text that are less common
18:05<TrueBrain>I managed to get quiet a few in there
18:05<TrueBrain>most happy with 'ample' in the right context :)
18:05<TrueBrain>I love languages; which is ironic, as I am dyslectic :D
18:09<TrueBrain>9500 characters .. I might have overdone this :P
18:19<andythenorth>mine was less though ;)
18:19<TrueBrain>yours is included! :P
18:20<andythenorth>save chars, remove it :)
18:20<andythenorth>also I bed
18:20<TrueBrain>sleep well
18:20<andythenorth>it will all be done when I wake eh?
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18:23<LordAro>TrueBrain: oki, i'm done
18:23<TrueBrain>cool; tnx a lot :D
18:23<LordAro>had a friend who's recently finished their PhD look over it :)
18:23<LordAro>lots of proofreading there
18:23<TrueBrain>bit overkill :D
18:28<TrueBrain>how to post on the frontpage ....
18:32<TrueBrain>frosch123: it is done
18:34<TrueBrain>all links work :)
18:35<TrueBrain>achievement unlocked
18:35<TrueBrain>not sure which
18:35<TrueBrain>but I am sure it has to be one
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18:36<@frosch123>does twitter audience care?
18:36<TrueBrain>I wonder when/if this will be picked up by news
18:36<TrueBrain>sure, go for it
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>we have a twitter audience?
18:36<@frosch123>which news?
18:36<@frosch123>dutch tv?
18:36<TrueBrain>haha, no, not that :D
18:37<TrueBrain>OpenTTD used to be a lot on, popular dutch site
18:37<TrueBrain>always curious if/how fast news travels
18:37<TrueBrain>but haven't seen 1.8 announcement .. so I guess the relation got a bit cold :)
18:37<TrueBrain>owh, I just missed it
18:38<GT>After last Gentoo emerge I cannot connect to any multiservers anymore, could it be because revision is 1.8.0-RC1 and not 1.8.0?
18:38<@frosch123>i wore the starcraft and factorio shirts at work, only one guy (different ones) recognised them
18:38<TrueBrain>GT: spot on :)
18:38<TrueBrain>frosch123: wuth?!
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>GT: 1.8.0-RC1 is something very different from 1.8.0
18:38<TrueBrain>you have the wrong type of work :)
18:38<GT>Can I change that rev.
18:38<TrueBrain>1.8.0-RC1 is, as the name suggests, not the same as 1.8.0
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>GT: only by installing the correct version
18:38<TrueBrain>so changing the rev is not sufficient
18:38<TrueBrain>you have to upgrade to 1.8.0
18:39<TrueBrain>(RC stands for Release Candidate; it is not meant for public release)
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>GT: we check for exact version match for a reason
18:40<GT>Yes, but Gentoo portage does not offer that
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>GT: because even tiny changes (probably) make it incompatible for multiplayer purposes
18:40<TrueBrain>I guess your next visit will be to the Gentoo maintainer chat channel :)
18:40<TrueBrain>(or you can try our generic binaries on the website!)
18:40<TrueBrain>or, of course, compile it yourself... that is what emerge does anyway :D
18:42<GT>Well, I have a parallel version that I svn up to to the nightlies, I suppose compiling 180 should not be more difficult
18:42<@frosch123>today is our twitter anniversary
18:42<@frosch123>who cares? :p
18:42<TrueBrain>git clone && cd OpenTTD && git checkout release/1.8.0 && ./configure && make
18:42<TrueBrain>or something
18:42<TrueBrain>frosch123: PARTY!!!! :D
18:42<TrueBrain>hmm, maybe better to pick the tag
18:43<TrueBrain>git clone && cd OpenTTD && git checkout tags/1.8.0 && ./configure && make
18:43<LordAro>should just be git checkout 1.8.0
18:43<TrueBrain>testing .......
18:44<TrueBrain>git clone && cd OpenTTD && git checkout 1.8.0 && ./configure && make
18:44<TrueBrain>GT: ^^ :)
18:44<ST2>git clone --branch 1.8.0
18:44<ST2>is that the same?
18:44<TrueBrain>try it out :)
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>git is like "WAAAH YOU HAVE A DETACHED HEAD!!!"
18:44<ST2>I've used it... only asking to confirm xD
18:44<TrueBrain>doesnt that confirm it on its own :D :)
18:45<ST2>check check
18:45<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: that is how I role .. with a detached head :D
18:45<ST2>thx :)
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18:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm, for the past ~whatever years my openttd complains that "weekly" is not a valid value for autosave... i should maybe fix that at some point? :p
18:46<GT>Thanks TB, I'll manage to compile it. But it would not hurt to trigger Gentoo nontheless, seems they only provide test version anyway.
18:47<TrueBrain>sadly we have little influence on what downstream maintainers do :(
18:48<TrueBrain>indeed seems they often don't pick up our stables
18:48<GT>I always have to package.accept_keywords it
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>my openttd checkout names are weird... "cargodist" "cargodist-old" "cargodist-halfold"
18:50<TrueBrain>right, off to bed; night!
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>so, as far as i can tell, the weekly autosave is from a game i played in 2011
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>(using chillpp)
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19:09<@frosch123>haha, this time twitter located my login to some 20k inhabitants-town even further away than the usual nuremberg
19:09<@frosch123>but at least i learn some geography that way
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23:01<arahael>any openttd ports to ipad, by chance?
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 15 00:00:30 2018