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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-16

---Logopened Mon Apr 16 00:00:32 2018
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02:35<andythenorth>lo bird
02:37<peter1138>Have you heard the word, about the bird?
02:37<peter1138>The word is 'nrt'.
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02:40<Pikka>that's a funny word
02:40<peter1138>Nrt! Nrt! Larks1
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02:45<andythenorth>Pikka: I fixed up pax and mail a bit
02:45<andythenorth>now we just need a better livery GUI
02:45<andythenorth>even RGB
02:46<Pikka>mmm rgb
02:47<Pikka>bright top pixel on -> yellow end?
02:47<andythenorth>shall fix
02:48<andythenorth>dunno about the steam coaches
02:48<andythenorth>windows are tall
02:49<Pikka>not bad... taller/narrower looks older
02:51<andythenorth>also should Scooby Doo be solid CC?
02:52<Pikka>dunno... I've been keeping the stripe so it all still matches with standard passenger and mail cars.
02:53<peter1138>Better livery GUI? What did you envision?
02:54<andythenorth>(1) usability stuff, get rid of the daft tickbox thing
02:54<andythenorth>(2) 5 types of pax coach, but only 1 freight?
02:54<andythenorth>and pax colour is also mail?
02:54<andythenorth>I don't have a proposed solution, I following truebrain's rule, complain about problem :P
02:55<andythenorth>I wondered about applying livery to groups
02:55<andythenorth>and it's either simple: engine livery, wagon livery
02:55<andythenorth>or it's full wtf: engine livery by type (visual effect), and wagon livery by cargo refit
02:55<peter1138>Wait, you can't?
02:55<peter1138>Was that another thing I had a patch for? :S
02:55<andythenorth>to groups?
02:55<andythenorth>groups don't do anything :)
02:55<andythenorth>no livery
02:56<andythenorth>no management of orders
02:56<andythenorth>no making groups from 'vehicles using this station'
02:56<andythenorth>groups are waste of space, but "hey, they're hierarchical now"
02:57<andythenorth>liveries need a bit of fun applying imho
02:57<andythenorth>it's not a place where 100% logic is required
02:57<peter1138>They're not a waste of space, they just don't do everything you want them to do.
02:58<andythenorth>how do we improve anything without dramatic unreasonable statements though? :P
03:01<peter1138>Hmm, why do I have these old patches?
03:03<peter1138>--- station_cmd.c (revision 2979)
03:04<peter1138>Yeah, I have a patch for group liveries.
03:04<peter1138>r14316 o_O
03:06<peter1138>Maybe I should rebase it :p
03:06<peter1138>It's 10 years old.
03:08<andythenorth>ha :)
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03:36<_dp_>peter1138, when your patch is older than some players
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04:28<andythenorth>Pikka: such coach
04:28<andythenorth>dunno about the buffet
04:30<Pikka>first window full size?
04:30<andythenorth>red stripe? :P
04:32<andythenorth>might need to be symmetrical
04:33<andythenorth>doesn't have to be a buffet, might be something else
04:33<andythenorth>who knows
04:35<Pikka>it's just a different-looking coach in the middle for visual interest
04:35<Pikka>doesn't need to be prototypical ;)
04:36<andythenorth>I have to repeat this for 5 other generations, so keep it simple eh
04:36<Pikka>all narrow windows? hmmm
04:36<andythenorth>I went on a french train with a playground coach in it once
04:36<andythenorth>had a climbing frame
04:38<Pikka> just need to fill in the gaps :P
04:39<andythenorth>who will finish first? :P
04:40<Pikka>are your coaches all symmetrical? I'm wondering if early coaches having different corridor sides will confuse people
04:41<andythenorth>they're not all symmetrical no
04:41<andythenorth>but generally I'm finding symmetry looks better, and is faster to work with
04:47<V453000>andythenorth and Pikka drawing trains? Did I just wake up 10 years ago? :D Sounds great!
04:49<andythenorth>and OpenTTD is dying again V453000 !
04:50<andythenorth>new github and everything
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04:50<V453000>holy shit :)
04:51<V453000>I will just fix PURR tonight and lets see if I can proceed with some work on some trains too :)
04:54<andythenorth>I rearranged all my spritesheets
04:54<andythenorth>so that the columns and rows match photoshop 'press cursor' distance
04:55<V453000>press cursor?
04:55<andythenorth>shift-cursor key
04:55<andythenorth>when using marquee or move tool
04:55<V453000>oh :D
04:55<V453000>"ok" :D
04:56<andythenorth>they used to be off by 1 or 2
04:56<andythenorth>drove me nuts
04:56<V453000>nuts eh
04:56<andythenorth>I wrote a PIL script to move everything
04:56<V453000>not too surprised byu that :?D
04:56<V453000>can't imagine moving everything by hand
04:56<V453000>don't even want to guess how many sprites do you have
04:59<andythenorth>done the short coaches too
04:59<andythenorth>V453000: only about 10 or 20 thousand
05:00<V453000>could be worse but it's still a lot :)
05:00<V453000>very nice wagons, I love the variety
05:00<andythenorth>someone said horse is too flat
05:00<andythenorth>and needs noise
05:00<andythenorth>but eh
05:00<andythenorth>I am -1 to random noise crap
05:01<andythenorth>Pikka planning to add random noise? o_O
05:01<V453000>I think it's in a good spot
05:01<andythenorth>noise just damages the shape
05:01<V453000>judging from these pictures here atm
05:01<andythenorth>it's for people who can't actually draw shapes
05:01<andythenorth>"wtf this is getting hard, I splatter some pixels"
05:02<V453000>it's not like it's completely flat, you have a bunch of "random" pixels there, and the window variety does a lot
05:02<V453000>I think iz nice
05:02<Pikka>I've a little bit of noise on, eg, coach roofs. but not too much.
05:03<Pikka>there's enough variety in the shading that nothing looks "flat" anyway
05:03<V453000>Pikka: do you 3D? :)
05:04<Pikka>not for UKRS3, or anything else I'm working on at the moment
05:04<V453000>so classic pixel pushing? :)
05:05<Pikka>and some procedural generation with Processing
05:05<V453000>so, working on UKRS3? What are the ideas for it if I may ask?
05:05<V453000>:0 procedural generation? :0
05:06<peter1138>andythenorth, new carriages.
05:06<peter1138>andythenorth, nice carriages.
05:06<andythenorth>fanks :)
05:06<andythenorth>can mess up the consist quite a bit
05:06<peter1138>Now do some dirty variations ;p
05:06<Pikka>oh dear
05:06<andythenorth>well I could
05:06<andythenorth>but no eh
05:06<Pikka>openttd needs more weathering or something
05:07<andythenorth>weathering script in PIL
05:07<andythenorth>would totally work
05:07<V453000>darken all pixels by 1 index
05:07<andythenorth>apply 7 random pixels of dirt to each sprite
05:07<andythenorth>V453000 that won't work because Livery Aging isn't allowed because 32 day callback is all wrong
05:07<andythenorth>or something
05:08<andythenorth>someone closed that issue anyway :)
05:08<Pikka>V: - more pixels, more colours, slightly fewer - or at least different - BAD FEATURES
05:08*andythenorth must to BBL
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05:08<V453000>Pikka: omg nice, will read, thanks :)
05:10<V453000>so drawing 32bpp x2 eh :) very nice
05:11<V453000>I'll probably keep trying to smash my head against 3D for my next trains
05:11<Pikka>it seems to be the sweet spot... big enough for more detail, small enough that the pixel-drawing style still works
05:12<peter1138>I regret making 4x ;(
05:12<V453000>very nice, yeah x4 is crazy much
05:12<peter1138>It only started out as a zoom level originally.
05:13<V453000>how well do the graphics work in x1?
05:13<V453000>I guess very well :)
05:14<Pikka>x1 is dots moving around a screen at modern resolutions anyway :P but yes, not bad.
05:14<V453000>yeah I changed my screen as well and everything is a bit smaller ._.
05:15<peter1138>I might find myself a high resolution monitor.
05:19<V453000>I feel like no matter what I do with 3D rendered stuff, it won't look better than your 32bpp x2 hand drawn stuff ... might be influenced by the fact that your stuff is simply awesome art :D
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05:22<peter1138>Hmm, 31" 8K monitor...
05:23<V453000>x16 coming?
05:24<peter1138>I may need to upgrade my RAM again.
05:24<Pikka>:) well it's all different, V... hand-drawn vs rendered, "realistic" vs fantastical...
05:27<V453000>yeah my things might not even look like trains almost at all
05:27<V453000>regardless I think I need so many different sprites that hand drawing is simply not viable for me atm
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06:20<Eddi|zuHause>i have two 2GB DDR2-1000something RAMs lying around here that my friend gave me from his computer that died
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>no idea what i would use those for
06:46<LordAro>paint scrapers
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07:13<peter1138>I was using that sort myself up until a couple of months ago.
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's slightly too low for putting into my current computer
08:05<peter1138>So when I was upgrading my PC I decided to put off getting a new GPU until a month later.
08:05<peter1138>Then the prices went up :(
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>i was considering getting a new PC for the past year, but never got around to doing it
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>i could use a laptop
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08:44<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: then you could leave the hause
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>scary thought
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'd have to think of a new nick
08:45<Sacro>I can't think of many german places to go
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08:54<Eddi|zuHause>it's more complicated than that, you also have to change the preposition
08:54<Sacro>I think
08:54<Sacro>or would it be aus?
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>possibilities are endless
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>"zu" only works for going to a place, not staying at a place. except for home
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>(and a few special cases, too)
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>("zu Tisch" comes to mind, although that is a rather old fashioned phrase)
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>(although that rather describes the process of eating rather than staying at a table)
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10:08<andythenorth>lo Alberth
10:08<@Alberth>hi hi andy
10:23<@Alberth>he, a V, hi hi
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11:14<@Alberth>isn't it?
11:17<andythenorth>I think so
11:18<andythenorth>diesel engines are going to get a 2nd livery, which shows when the engine is flipped
11:18<andythenorth>I was trying to avoid this :P
11:18<andythenorth>but eh
11:18<@Alberth>upside down engine
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11:34<peter1138>Just spent an hour diagnosing code that failed to work.
11:34<peter1138>Then it started working.
11:34<peter1138>I... dunno.
11:38<andythenorth>usually when I do that, I'm in the wrong repo :P
11:38<@Alberth>git status ?
11:38<andythenorth>remarkably often when I have multiple checkouts
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11:49<andythenorth>I guess we wouldn't allow 4 flipped states? o_O
11:51<@Alberth>I can't quite imagine what 4 flipped states would mean
11:52<andythenorth>it's just a counter on how many times user has flipped the vehic;e
11:52<andythenorth>vehicle *
11:52<andythenorth>it's another silly idea for arbitrary, user-editbale storage per vehicle
11:52<andythenorth>similar to cargo subtypes, and just as bad
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause>if that's not a BAD FEATURE waiting to happen, then i don't know
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>on a related note: is the flipped state kept through autoreplace?
12:06<andythenorth>let's see
12:06<andythenorth>I doubt it somehow
12:07<andythenorth>oh seems to be
12:07<andythenorth>colour me surprised :P
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>now try autoreplacing with engines that cannot be flipped :p
12:09<andythenorth>that's why I'm surprised it works at all
12:09<andythenorth>I guess something just copies as many props as possible
12:15<andythenorth>peter1138: how about default company colour settings per vehicle in buy menu? o_O
12:15<andythenorth>too much? o_O
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12:20<@Alberth>multi-company buy menu or so?
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12:21<andythenorth>'buy this vehicle in red'
12:21<andythenorth>'buy this vehicle in pink'
12:22<andythenorth>I know the train fans want the real liveries
12:22<andythenorth>but eh
12:22<andythenorth>CC is more fun, by miles
12:23<andythenorth>bbs even
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12:32<peter1138>Per vehicle. No.
12:33<TrueBrain>frosch123: #6730, assuming he is asking because he wants to implement it, is tha tsomething we accept PRs for?
12:33<frosch123>that guy has forked cppcheck, i guess they check every project on github :)
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12:34<TrueBrain>but does he make any chance if he would make those PRs? :)
12:35<andythenorth>@seen supermop
12:35<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: supermop was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 2 hours, 23 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <supermop> should look good out of the box
12:35<frosch123>TrueBrain: for "strdup" certainly not :)
12:35<frosch123>i would rather use std::string everywhere, than checking success of memory allocation
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12:36<frosch123>i wouldn't even know what ottd should do if strdup fails
12:36<TrueBrain>exit :P
12:37<LordAro>TrueBrain: i get that warning with gcc7.3
12:37<TrueBrain>LordAro: I just dislike issues with too little information
12:38<TrueBrain>learning peopl ehow ot write proper bug reports is also a goal in life :)
12:38<LordAro>discussed it with frosch123 before, it's probably spurious
12:38<LordAro>there's several lines in that file that are very similar, but only that one triggers it
12:38<frosch123>yes, i also though thar lordaro came with that before :)
12:39<LordAro> indeed so
12:39<frosch123>TrueBrain: actualy, rb already removed all usages of strdup, it only exists in depend.cpp
12:40<TrueBrain>frosch123: wrote a nice reply (I tihnk) :)
12:40<TrueBrain>in general I am tempted to close all these kind of tickets like that; let me know ifyou agree with the content or not :)
12:41<frosch123>you should have written lordaro instead of frosch :)
12:41<TrueBrain>sure, next time :)
12:42<TrueBrain>I just hope the content of tickets improves .. so far I only have seen ambigous reports :(
12:43<TrueBrain>really considering an issue template, if this continues :)
12:43<LordAro>needs a
12:43<TrueBrain>that too
12:43<TrueBrain>hurry up LordAro
12:43<TrueBrain>get that in there!
12:44<andythenorth>RL is
12:44<andythenorth>but I want the one that looks best, not most realism
12:45<andythenorth>I am glad you said that
12:45<andythenorth>reinforces my prejudice :)
12:45<LordAro>TrueBrain: find the link from yesterday!
12:46<TrueBrain>LordAro: I think I wrote enough bla for one week :P Now it is up to you and andythenorth :)
12:46<andythenorth>I will write some in a bit, once chores are done
12:46<andythenorth>if I get stuck on some sections I'll leave them out and ship a v1
12:46<andythenorth>something is better than nothing here
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12:59<TrueBrain>the GitHub went from 50 unique visitors to 300 after the forum post :) seems people read forums :)
13:00<TrueBrain>owh, no, not forums
13:00<TrueBrain>was via the website
13:00<TrueBrain>so people read news posts :)
13:01<TrueBrain>frosch123: coding style bla, what is your opinion on #6726 ? :)
13:03<TrueBrain>LordAro: my ICC license is in btw
13:03<LordAro>as is mine :)
13:07<Wolf01>peter1138: I read the comments about the TODOs, I think some of them aren't really TODOs, or they were just put there for later refactoring, I would focus on the ones with the subtypes and the SE one (if really needed to check roadtype availability)
13:11<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
13:12<peter1138>I just went through and posted where there are TODOs.
13:12<TrueBrain>lol, 50 euro per month to rent a virtual mac :D
13:12<TrueBrain>pretty smart ..
13:13<TrueBrain>or 1 dollar per hour
13:13<andythenorth>there are $1 / hour versions
13:13<andythenorth>oh you found it :P
13:13<TrueBrain>that is smart
13:13<andythenorth>how many hours / month we need?
13:13<TrueBrain>2 hours per release or so
13:13<andythenorth>I could just hang an old mac off my network, but eugh
13:14<andythenorth>then I am responsible
13:14<TrueBrain>which is the biggest issue :)
13:14<andythenorth>I can donate $20 / month for mac host easy
13:14<peter1138>Still having issues cross-compiling it? :(
13:14<TrueBrain>that is not an issue that will be solved
13:14<TrueBrain>as fundamentally, having a 3rd party implement fixes, never results in good results :)
13:14<frosch123>TrueBrain: what is the question about 6726? the one you already answered?
13:15<TrueBrain>I was just wondering if there is a bigger line in OpenTTD source there
13:15<TrueBrain>I know we used to do it like that; but that was 10 years ago :D
13:15<frosch123>we have LAST for the last valid item, and END for the first invalid item
13:15<frosch123>as long as those are not mixed, i am fine
13:16<TrueBrain>cool; tnx :)
13:16<TrueBrain>peter1138: can we introduce unit tests? :D
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13:17<peter1138>I just wanted some way to see it working without me having to think about it :p
13:17<TrueBrain>or what were you tihnking about?
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13:20<Wolf01>frosch123: do you remember what you intended to do in those TODOs? the "Road is always available" ones
13:20<andythenorth>much time ago :|
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13:22<Wolf01>I would really like unit tests
13:22<Wolf01>At least to be sure the 43563467476 cases of a simple function which checks if something is allowed to do in a tile work as intended
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13:23<Wolf01>And I don't speak for the functions with 1e238 cases, there would be really helpful
13:25<peter1138>TrueBrain, something that uses the new string codes, I guess.
13:25<frosch123>Wolf01: that is all around "town always build road"
13:25<peter1138>I can see the code probably works, but I've not tried it.
13:25<frosch123>there must be some road available so town can grow
13:26<frosch123>when i was working on that branch towns always built ROAD, so ROAD was always required
13:26<Wolf01>Ok, then I could have handled the cases on the branch
13:26<Wolf01>Still missing a lot of things, but the core part for towns is there
13:28<frosch123>everytime i see a wot ad, i think of andy
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13:29<andythenorth>it was the ads that got me playing
13:30<andythenorth>but now I've stopped
13:30<andythenorth>I only have limited tolerance for being sent abusive DMs
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14:15<andythenorth>occasionally it shows a this sort of thing
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14:24<Thedarkb>Did you sort out the library issue on the Debian/Ubuntu build machines?
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14:49<andythenorth>so many open tabs
14:50<andythenorth>one of them has lordaro's CONTRIBUTING paste in it
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14:58<TrueBrain>smee I finally found a good wy to make an SDK :)
14:58<TrueBrain>but extracting XCode TAKES FOR EVER :)
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15:00<peter1138>TrueBrain, how do i pull a PR locally?
15:00<TrueBrain>peter1138: :) Something with refs/pull/<number>/head .. never sure about syntax
15:00<TrueBrain>git fetch upstrean refs/pull/1111/head ?
15:03<peter1138>Ah, git fetch upstream refs/pull/6726/head:6726 < makes a local branch called 6726.
15:03<peter1138>Thanks for the hint :p
15:03<TrueBrain>FETCH_HEAD .. local branch .. tomato tomat :)
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15:09<peter1138>Hmm, what's the optimal -j for parallel compiling these days?
15:09<peter1138>cores, cores * 2, cores + 1, ...
15:10<peter1138>what about hyperthreading?
15:10<TrueBrain>if your system has HT, cores is sufficient. If it doesnt have HT, add a few more
15:10<TrueBrain>HT on its own will keep your CPU busy enough
15:11<debdog>(except one has many cores but little ammount of RAM)
15:11<TrueBrain>little ram? *looks at his machine, looks at debdog, looks back at his machine* NAH! :D
15:11<TrueBrain>that would mean compiling a single file takes more than 1GB :P
15:12<TrueBrain>doubt it :)
15:12<debdog>so, you prolly not one of these exceptions
15:14<TrueBrain>finding out which Xcode dropped 10.12 SDK feels like downloading every version :(
15:15<TrueBrain>owh well, 10.13 should work .... :D
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15:22<TrueBrain>andythenorth: which clang version does your OSX have?
15:22<andythenorth>Apple LLVM version 9.0.0 (clang-900.0.39.2)
15:23<andythenorth>Target: x86_64-apple-darwin16.7.0
15:24<TrueBrain>ty :)
15:24<LordAro>now try to work out what actual LLVM version number that corresponds to
15:26<TrueBrain>16.7 is weird .. 10.11 was darwin15 .. so 12 and 13 are 16? OSX is funny
15:36<andythenorth>we got any other licenses besides GPL v2?
15:36<TrueBrain>3rd party stuff?
15:36<TrueBrain>hmm .. andythenorth, which OSX version are you running?
15:36<TrueBrain>I assumed 10.13, but new information suggestions different :D
15:37<TrueBrain>ah :D
15:37<TrueBrain>my bad :)_
15:37<andythenorth>10.13 is well dodgy
15:37<TrueBrain>should have asked :P
15:37<andythenorth>Apple clown shoes
15:37<andythenorth>I might have to rewrite from scratch
15:37<andythenorth>it's MIT / CC
15:37<andythenorth>not GPL
15:37<TrueBrain>the file is licensed?
15:38<andythenorth>of course
15:38<andythenorth>everything is licensed everywhere, etc
15:38<TrueBrain>GitHub too has suggestions btw
15:39<andythenorth>I'm starting to go off GPL
15:39<andythenorth>I was a big fan, but it's problematic
15:40<TrueBrain>it always has been
15:40<TrueBrain>MIT is a bit nicer license
15:40<TrueBrain>or CC- variants, if you want to be more picky
15:40<TrueBrain>but GPL .. is always .. icky
15:40<andythenorth>I discovered my newgrfs were violating it
15:40<andythenorth>so I've had to armchair lawyer some stuff
15:41<TrueBrain>if you touch anything GPL .. CONCRATZ! YOU ARE NOW GPL TOO :P
15:44<andythenorth>yeah, so what am I going to do?
15:44<andythenorth>not use fonts in my project because WOO FONTS
15:44<andythenorth>not provide html documentation because WOO BOOTSTRAP IS MIT :)
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15:51<LordAro>i thought i recognised the name from somewhere - elfring also hit freerct with a load of useless issue reports
15:52<TrueBrain>and he seems unable to read a response I guess *shrug*
15:52<TrueBrain>it almost feels like a bot tbh :)
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15:53<TrueBrain>talking of which :)
15:53<TrueBrain>LordAro: frosch123 told me to point him to you :)
15:53<andythenorth>what's the deal with 80 char formatting in
15:53<peter1138>Yeah, that comment is... not relevant to what you wrote.
15:53<andythenorth>currently it's mixed, and looks daft
15:54<TrueBrain>andythenorth: ditch it; new rule: newline at the dot
15:54<TrueBrain>that makes reviewing SO MUCH EAISER
15:54<elfring>How do you think about to improve error detetection and corresponding exception handling for this software?
15:54<peter1138>There we go.
15:54<andythenorth>TrueBrain: "at the dot"? o_O
15:55<TrueBrain>elfring: we welcome any PR within sanity :) Talk to LordAro if you want to see if your PR has merrit before creating it :) Saves a lot of time for both you and us :)
15:55<TrueBrain>andythenorth: yes :) So 1 sentence per line
15:55<TrueBrain>means a diff means something
15:55<andythenorth>80 chars is so old
15:55<TrueBrain>not saying we should :) Just saying it really helped me :)
15:55<TrueBrain>well, the issue is if you change 1 word, you have to change the whole block :D
15:55<andythenorth>we had a thing at work about 80 chars for a while so someone could read it in their phone or something
15:56<andythenorth>or because they had 25 bash windows open inside emacs
15:56<andythenorth>anyway we sacked that
15:56<andythenorth>makes for bad python code
15:56<TrueBrain>I have an ongoing discussion .. tempted to buy better screens for those people :P
15:56<elfring>Which contributors will care for more complete exception handling?
15:56<TrueBrain>for Python I do 120 .. to keep people a bit in line :)
15:56<TrueBrain>elfring: same question, same answer
15:57<peter1138>I was wondering about getting a 4K monitor...
15:57-!-cHawk [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:57<peter1138>Then I realised I'd probably want three.
15:57<TrueBrain>I want a 27" 2k .. but it is so hard to find a good one :(
15:57<peter1138>And *then* I saw that an 8K monitor exists...
15:58<andythenorth>TrueBrain: those people don't work with me anymore ;)
15:58<andythenorth>ok this is nearly ready for v1 I think
15:58<TrueBrain>you didnt like the pun? 120 chars? In line? :)
15:59<andythenorth>I did but eh
15:59<andythenorth> !!!!
15:59<elfring>LordAro: Would you like to clarify exception handling any more?
15:59<andythenorth>I'm sure some links are broken
16:00<TrueBrain>elfring: no, Open Source works differently; what error flow do you intend to correct?
16:02<elfring>TrueBrain, LordAro: Static source code analysis can point some open issues out in this case.
16:03<TrueBrain>elfring: I am not looking for reports of what is wrong; I am looking for people to fix those issues via Pull Requests :)
16:03<TrueBrain>we run Coverity over our code; we do static analysis :)
16:04<TrueBrain>just not every warning is worth the time of fixing :)
16:04<TrueBrain>LordAro: indeed, GCC 7.2 is throwing that error; guess I should add it to the CI soon :P
16:05<andythenorth>ok this is near done
16:05<elfring>TrueBrain, LordAro: There are a few design approaches available to improve the affected software situation.
16:05<andythenorth>just needs "WRITE ABOUT CI HERE" removed or written
16:05<andythenorth>$someone ^
16:05<TrueBrain>*looks around* nope andythenorth :)
16:05<andythenorth>then I PR it as a single commit
16:05<TrueBrain>maybe tomorrow :)
16:06<andythenorth>does it really need details today?
16:06<TrueBrain>elfring: are you planning on writing code to apply those approaches? :)
16:08<elfring>TrueBrain, LordAro: Which warnings did you get by the tools Coverity and GCC for the mentioned issue?
16:09<TrueBrain>elfring: how is that relevant?
16:10<elfring>TrueBrain: I am looking for acceptance possibilities for affected software design aspects.
16:10<TrueBrain>elfring: do you plan on implementing those possibilities in code?
16:10<andythenorth>TrueBrain: [distracting you here] "Continuous integration (CI) tools monitor pull requests, and help us identify build and code quality issues. The results of CI tests may show on the pull request."
16:10<andythenorth>can I ship that?
16:11<andythenorth>better than "WRITE ABOUT CI HERE"
16:11<TrueBrain>The results of the CI tests will show on your pull request. By clicking on Details you can further soom in; in case of a failure it will show you why it failed. In case of success how awesome you were.
16:11<TrueBrain>soom? SOOM!
16:11<TrueBrain>zoom :)
16:11<TrueBrain>possibly rephrase a bit
16:11<TrueBrain>but you get the jizz :)
16:11<TrueBrain>it is not MAY show .. it WILL show :)
16:11<elfring>TrueBrain: Higher level development tools can help more to improve also this software, can't they?
16:11<TrueBrain>(without a success,i you cannot accept pull requests andythenorth :))
16:12<TrueBrain>elfring: not the question; I ask if YOU are willing to contribute with code?
16:12<TrueBrain>elfring: as we all know things to improve; so only telling us it should etc, does not really help
16:12<andythenorth>someone going to teach me interactive rebase for this .md file?
16:12<andythenorth>or I just do one big diff against trunk? :P
16:12<TrueBrain>1 commit :)
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16:14<elfring>TrueBrain: It depends. - I hope that advanced tools can be used so that some work can eventually be reduced.
16:15<TrueBrain>elfring: you talk in riddles and in circles, sorry :(
16:15<TrueBrain>elfring: it almost feels you are trying to sell something .. :(
16:15<__ln__>Oh, elfring is here and I'm out of popcorn.
16:16<TrueBrain>__ln__: be nice; wait, that is not in your dictionary. be not-your-usual-self!
16:17<elfring>TrueBrain: You might notice that I am trying to improve several software components in a similar way for a while.
16:17<TrueBrain>elfring: tools are a means to an end. Without people to be willing to dedicate their time to follow up on it, tools are just that: tools
16:17<TrueBrain>elfring: a shovel in my garden can do wonders. But without me operation, it isjust a piece of wood with a piece of iron attached
16:18<TrueBrain>elfring: we need people who not only tells us: you should deal with a result value of strdup (better yet: dont use strdup), but who make a Pull Request to do something with it
16:18<TrueBrain>elfring: are you that person for us?
16:18<elfring>TrueBrain: But you can also let a machine perform the digging for you, can't you?
16:19<TrueBrain>elfring: a machine can tell me all the errors in the world; with no human to correct them, they mean nothing to me
16:19<TrueBrain>(and a machine that digs my garden on its own, with no humans, does not exist as of yet ... maybe in a few years :D)
16:20<TrueBrain>scary .. I come home one day: A SWIMMING POOL!
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16:20<andythenorth>are these our guidelines? Or is this Bootstrap cargo cult?
16:20<andythenorth>it's linked from CONTRIBUTING
16:20<elfring>Can better exception handling help you more automatically?
16:21<TrueBrain>andythenorth: no, that is git; at least, a quick glance gives me that impression
16:21<TrueBrain>andythenorth: just everyone mostly ignores it :D
16:21<TrueBrain>elfring: and we are back in a circle :) Not sure if it is the language, or that you are reading off a script :(
16:23<andythenorth>we gonna have
16:23<andythenorth>github likes it if we do
16:23<TrueBrain>rename our COPYING, you say?
16:23<elfring>Would you dare to apply aspect-oriented software development?
16:23<andythenorth>TrueBrain: I'll link COPYING
16:24<TrueBrain>I think this conversation has come to an end elfring; sorry.
16:24<andythenorth>uh oh
16:24<andythenorth>there's a paradigm to debate
16:24<andythenorth>my experience of paradigm-driven developers is universally negative so far :|
16:24<TrueBrain>the moment you start a build, and after 10 files cmake still says: 0% done .. oh-oh
16:27<TrueBrain>this really is going to take a long time to build :D But at least it is building what I expect him to build .. which is nice ..
16:28<andythenorth>let's see if I did it right :P
16:28<andythenorth>I am bad at bureaucracy
16:29<andythenorth>yeah broken ignore
16:29<andythenorth>I clicked a magic git button, but it was the wrong magic
16:32<TrueBrain>please rebase :D (most likely one of the last time that you are obligated to do that, but .. you use a too old master that doesnt fix that yet :D)
16:33<+glx>anyway it's always nice to create a PR from an up-to-date clone
16:33<elfring>How do you think about to encapsulate error detection and corresponding exception handling as a reusable aspect in your software?
16:34<andythenorth>ok so I have to learn rebase now
16:34<andythenorth>let's see
16:34<TrueBrain>git rebase upstream/master
16:34<TrueBrain>git push -f
16:35<andythenorth>I was close by guessing :P
16:35<andythenorth>not close enough
16:35<andythenorth>ugh git push -f is going to get me killed at work
16:35<TrueBrain>it should
16:36<andythenorth>one day I'll forget and do it by accident
16:36<TrueBrain>it also means they have a bad pre-commit filter :D
16:36<TrueBrain>so you can always just say it was their fault :P
16:36<andythenorth>well it's my company
16:36<andythenorth>so it's always my fault, ultimately
16:37<TrueBrain>I wonder if we should make the GPL stuff more verbose, like many other projects
16:37<TrueBrain>so much administration
16:37<andythenorth>so much
16:37<andythenorth>we need planetmaker or someone
16:37<TrueBrain>there are bots that do that work :)
16:38<TrueBrain>very nice work on the
16:38<__ln__>elfring: Please make concrete suggestions about improvements in the form of pull requests.
16:38<TrueBrain>I really like it :)
16:38<andythenorth>TrueBrain: team game eh
16:39<TrueBrain>also nicely done with credits where credits are due :)
16:39<TrueBrain>and your first successful rebase \o/ :D
16:40<TrueBrain>did frosch123 also already read it? :)
16:40<TrueBrain>before I go: merge, andhe goes: WHAT THE FUCK :D
16:40<TrueBrain>(he never does that; but I like to think I would :P)
16:41<elfring>__ln__: How are the chances for pull requests around better exception handling?
16:41<andythenorth>frosch gave comments
16:41*frosch123 reads
16:42<TrueBrain>LordAro: does the fix you showed also work for this GCC 7 bug? Or are those 2 different things?
16:43<LordAro>TrueBrain: it does, but frosch123 didn't think it was the Right Thing(tm) to do
16:43<LordAro>(the other commit is the clang bug)
16:43<TrueBrain>such a weird error
16:46<TrueBrain>ah, so yeah, the values makes sense
16:47<TrueBrain>256 bytes between the two values :)
16:49<TrueBrain>it seems GCC is blind for the if statement just before
16:51<TrueBrain>well, if frosch123 is commenting, I also have one more andythenorth :D
16:52<andythenorth>now I now how to push -f :P
16:52<andythenorth>know *
16:52<TrueBrain>and git commit --amend? :D
16:53<andythenorth>how does that work in the PR though?
16:53<andythenorth>i.e. what happens to your comments?
16:53<andythenorth>new PR?
16:53<TrueBrain>commit with amend
16:53<TrueBrain>force push
16:53<TrueBrain>and you can still see our comments, jus tnot in that commit anymore
16:53<TrueBrain>will be fine :)
16:53<TrueBrain>you make a new commit
16:53<TrueBrain>so you can see the diff there
16:54<TrueBrain>honestly, works as well
16:54<TrueBrain>just who accepts your PR needs to squash
16:54<TrueBrain>instead of rebase
16:54<TrueBrain>but .. back to the squash vs rebase dialog :D
16:56<TrueBrain>@base 20 10
16:56<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 20
16:56<TrueBrain>@base 10 20
16:56<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 20
16:57<TrueBrain>@base 16 10 2a
16:57<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 42
16:57<TrueBrain>@base 10 16 18446744073709551361
16:57<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: FFFFFFFFFFFFFF01
16:57<TrueBrain>@base 10 16 18446744073709551615
16:57<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
16:59<andythenorth>do I need to comment on PR at all?
16:59<TrueBrain>emails go out, and if you say: frosch123, I am sure you just did :P
17:00<TrueBrain>so GCC think the range is between -1 and -254?
17:01<TrueBrain>so length is always 0?
17:01<frosch123>TrueBrain: no Werror then :)
17:02<TrueBrain>I wonder how it makes that conclusion
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17:02<TrueBrain>as two if statements clearly show it is not possible for length to be 0
17:05<TrueBrain>guess optimizations play a part there
17:06<TrueBrain>I would need to install GCC 7 to debug that further .. just weird :P
17:07<TrueBrain>possibly the warning is just out of context
17:07<TrueBrain>because if you have 2 bytes A and B
17:07<TrueBrain>than A - B can range from 255 to -254
17:07<TrueBrain>and maybe it only reports on the -1 .. -254
17:08<TrueBrain>given length - statspec->lengths is used twice
17:08<TrueBrain>putting it in a variable both solves the issue as makes the code prettier
17:08<TrueBrain>sadly, LordAro went for the cheap solution :D
17:09<TrueBrain>would also explain the memset a bit lower; as multiplying it with a few puts the number back into what "is allowed"
17:09<TrueBrain>by what-ever stupid definition
17:09<TrueBrain>it is just a bogus warning
17:13<LordAro>i'll see about fixing it more properly
17:13<TrueBrain>too late :P
17:14<TrueBrain>do you have GCC 7 LordAro?
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17:14<TrueBrain>can you check if 6733 still warns? :)
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17:18<TrueBrain>I did something that broke compiling locally :D
17:19<TrueBrain>ah, something added a wrong include ..
17:19<TrueBrain>tnx LordAro; now I just hope frosch123 does like my solution :D
17:20<TrueBrain>THERE! A :D
17:20<TrueBrain>tnx again all :D
17:23<frosch123>did you force push to fake the pr number into the message? or did you anticipate the next number?
17:23<TrueBrain>I squashed
17:23<frosch123>i mean 6729
17:24<TrueBrain>hm? 6729 is the bug report, not?
17:24<TrueBrain>6733 is the fix? What am I missing?
17:24<frosch123>oh, right
17:26<TrueBrain>okay .. going to try eints ...
17:26<TrueBrain>rejected :D
17:27<frosch123>from gh?
17:27<TrueBrain>it wants validation of Jenkins :D
17:27<TrueBrain>I once wrote a bot which made the PR
17:27<TrueBrain>waited for approval
17:27<TrueBrain>(from CI)
17:27<TrueBrain>approved it
17:27<TrueBrain>and merged
17:27<TrueBrain>but ... that is a lot of shit :P
17:28<TrueBrain>ha, worked
17:29<TrueBrain>now just administrators can ignore all requirements .. so behave frosch123 :P
17:29<frosch123>he, just wanted to suggest unchecking that :p
17:29<TrueBrain>just a bit unclear who 'administrators' are
17:30<TrueBrain>it is called owner in most places
17:30<TrueBrain>I ASSUME they mean the same
17:30<TrueBrain>but ...... why call it differently?
17:30<frosch123>i did as well :p
17:30<TrueBrain>okay, nightly commit is active again
17:31<peter1138>That reminds me... I had to make my jenkin user a gitea admin before the API would work correctly. I'm sure that's not right :S
17:31<LordAro>TrueBrain: worth pointing out that GH doesn't see "Codechange #nnnn" as a close marker
17:31<andythenorth>such CONTRIBUTIONS expected now
17:31<TrueBrain>LordAro: yup, I noticed :)
17:33<TrueBrain>almost hit Squash, till I noticed LordAro approved; seems that is now enough for GH as Owner :D
17:33<frosch123>it's red
17:33<frosch123>and it asks twice
17:33<TrueBrain>hmm .. its green here :)
17:34<TrueBrain>dunno .. weird ..
17:34<frosch123>well, now it is
17:34<TrueBrain>hmm .. that flag has nothing to do with it
17:34<TrueBrain>seems Gardeners can also review :D
17:34<frosch123>but when you try to confirm without approval or ci check, you have to confirm to abuse owner powers
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17:35<TrueBrain>owh, LordAro is now a Code Owner of course, because he made a contribution :)
17:35<andythenorth>I can't merge PRs
17:35<TrueBrain>not merge, no :)
17:35<andythenorth>"You're not authorized to merge this pull request."
17:35<TrueBrain>merge is restricted via another toggle
17:35<andythenorth>I can comment and/or close
17:35<TrueBrain>GitHub works in mysterious ways :)
17:36<TrueBrain>I can dismiss reviews
17:36<TrueBrain>but you need to tell WHY
17:37<TrueBrain>happy eints 'just worked', really tnx frosch123 :)
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17:41<TrueBrain>anyway, frosch123, is #6733 acceptable, or do you want me to dig deeper why GCC does this wrong?
17:41<frosch123>gcc will fix it somewhen
17:41<frosch123>i think we always had weird warnings with some compilers
17:42<frosch123>some got fixes with later compilers, some we disabled
17:42<TrueBrain>yeah; that is why I tried to find something that both benefits the code, and solves the issue :)
17:42<TrueBrain>but compilers indeed will be compilers .. so looking deeper is not really useful indeed
17:42<TrueBrain>I remember the fixes during GCC4 we had to do :D
17:42<TrueBrain>that was fun :P
17:44<TrueBrain>lot of cool new warnings in GCC 7 .. like showing which part of a printf is wrong :D
17:47<frosch123>don't dismiss again :p
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17:48<TrueBrain>haha :D
17:48<frosch123>also: earlier on the contributing pr
17:48<LordAro>i added -Weffc++ to see what happened
17:48<frosch123>you had requested changes and i had approved, but merge was still blocked
17:49<LordAro>so many warnings
17:49<TrueBrain>frosch123: that is at least sane
17:49<frosch123>so, request changes overrules approval :)
17:50<TrueBrain>poor CI, has been busy for over an hour now :P
17:50<TrueBrain>I really need to fix ccache
17:51<TrueBrain>or leave a partial compiled or so
17:51<TrueBrain>or AWS needs to reply with a nice offer :D
17:51<TrueBrain>ugh, the OSX build is only at 55% ... this is taking a REALLY long time
17:51<peter1138>I need to move mine, it's running on a Celeron at the moment.
17:52<peter1138>What's it doing, bootstrapping a compiler?
17:52<TrueBrain>no, that he already did
17:52<TrueBrain>now he is compiling the compiler or something
17:52<TrueBrain>wow ... flush is taking 300% CPU
17:52<LordAro>TrueBrain: partial compiling is risky
17:53<TrueBrain>why is it doing so much I/O for this .. holy crap ..
17:53<TrueBrain>did not expect that ...
17:54<TrueBrain>LordAro: our dependency is pretty good
17:54<Wolf01>About partial compiling, with the new version of the tool I use to develop at work, they allow partial compiling of classes to solve the problem of circular dependencies -.-
17:54<TrueBrain>only issue might be mtime
17:54<TrueBrain>Wolf01: sounds scary :D
17:55<LordAro>TrueBrain: true
17:55<Wolf01>Sounds insane, not scary
17:55<LordAro>maybe make || (make mrproper && make) could work?
17:55<Wolf01>Also, 'night
17:55<TrueBrain>night Wolf01
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17:56<LordAro> ^ ./configure &&
17:56<TrueBrain>LordAro: that is the case in our current build system
17:56<frosch123>btw, did someone from simutrans already complain?
17:56<TrueBrain>but no need to test that every commit
17:56<TrueBrain>frosch123: nah
17:56<TrueBrain>and I kinda forgot about them
17:56<LordAro>why would simutrans complain?
17:56<TrueBrain>will write a message tomorrow telling them what was going on
17:56<LordAro>oh, build system?
17:57<TrueBrain>hmm ... I closed my docker build, and flush is still at 300%
17:57<TrueBrain>oh-oh :D
17:57<peter1138>Last Simutrans build is 27th Feb, so...
17:57<TrueBrain>when was their last commit?
17:57<peter1138>I guess they don't change very much.
17:58<LordAro>that's not *that* long ago...
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17:59<peter1138>Hm, according to the git mirror, yesterday.
17:59<TrueBrain>so we are not compiling that version :D
18:04<TrueBrain>right, message sent
18:04<TrueBrain>and this kernel is still at 300% CPU for flush
18:04<TrueBrain>what have I done ....
18:05<TrueBrain>yet barely any disk IO
18:07<TrueBrain>so writing disks costs more CPU than IO ..........
18:08<TrueBrain>funny, Simutrans also uses Squirrel :)
18:08<peter1138>Yeah, I saw that.
18:08<peter1138>Hmm, I should update this patch. r14316.
18:09<LordAro>i'm sure it's fine
18:09<peter1138>Yeah, well it's not pre-c++ at least.
18:10<TrueBrain>seems the flush is holding back 2GB of RAM
18:10<TrueBrain>guess I just reboot .. that always fixes everything, not?
18:12<peter1138>Heh, still has the saveload stuff in the _cmd files though.
18:14<TrueBrain>owh, this flush is running for over a week now
18:15<TrueBrain>yeah ... that seems to be not my only problem .......
18:15<TrueBrain>I do not think it really is flush
18:16-!-Thedarkb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:16<TrueBrain>I have an open connection to an IP I dont know about, and a process hiding as 'sysinfo'
18:16<TrueBrain>I think it is just a miner :P
18:16<TrueBrain>question now is .. how did it get on the box ..
18:17<TrueBrain>its on a docker slave of mine, which does nothing else but handle shit docker commands :P
18:18<peter1138>Someone made a dodgy PR? :p
18:18<TrueBrain>no, not on OpenTTD infrastructure
18:21<TrueBrain>indeed a miner
18:21<LordAro>that seems concerning
18:22<TrueBrain>honestly, that happens
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18:23<TrueBrain>ah .. I did not firewall my Docker API properly
18:24<TrueBrain>volume mount on host system
18:24<TrueBrain>makes sense
18:24<TrueBrain>that was not so smart
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18:24<TrueBrain>they even left a nice crontab running to wake up the machine every N time :D
18:25<TrueBrain>I blocked port 2376, but Docker runs on 2375 these days :)
18:26<TrueBrain>@calc 60 * 24 * 10
18:26<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 14400
18:27<TrueBrain>right, that should learn me to be more careful with throw-away machines :)
18:27<TrueBrain>it only containsed the OpenTTD CF stuff on it :P
18:27<TrueBrain>(as in, the GitHub sources)
18:28<peter1138>We had one that was hiding as a WordPress plugin...
18:28<peter1138>Oh, I found the missing bit of this patch: there's no UI.
18:30<peter1138>Heh, still refers to _current_player instead of _current_company.
18:35<TrueBrain>okay, so Docker changed from port between version
18:35<TrueBrain>I did not pick that up
18:35<peter1138>Default deny...
18:35<TrueBrain>yeah, for reasons this box wasnt
18:36<TrueBrain>but okay .. single-purpose box, so meh
18:36<TrueBrain>no private keys on the box, no passwords
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18:44<TrueBrain>okay ... so all they got is the OpenTTD source (lol)
18:44<TrueBrain>the OpenTTD-CF source (again, lol)
18:44<TrueBrain>and some tests of mine .. okay, could have been worse
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18:47<TrueBrain>owh well, shutdown -h now, trash the VM, lets boot a new one :)
18:47<TrueBrain>for now, good night!
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 17 00:00:33 2018