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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-17

---Logopened Tue Apr 17 00:00:33 2018
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02:20<peter1138>andythenorth, I found out why that group livery patch never got anywhere. It doesn't contain any UI.
02:23<andythenorth>make it random
02:24<andythenorth>:P
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02:27<peter1138>Hah
02:29<peter1138>Ooh I made it crash.
02:32<andythenorth>probably don't ship it yet
02:35<peter1138>https://i.imgur.com/xPbnOfq.png
02:37<peter1138>No checkbox!
02:47<andythenorth>peter1138: so much better
02:47<andythenorth>that's a nice grf too
02:47<andythenorth>maybe grfs should be able to register liveries :P
02:48<andythenorth>action 14 or so
02:48<andythenorth>just a constant inside the grf, defining groups that colours can be applied to
02:48<andythenorth>action 0 prop on the vehicle for the group
02:51<andythenorth>then add a cb for it, and vehicles start changing against player wishes :P
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04:17<andythenorth>Pikka o/
04:22<andythenorth>such realistic RES livery http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8972/horse_res.png
04:22<andythenorth>but it's only 1CC
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04:50<peter1138>Well, newgrfs can already override the player's colours.
04:50<andythenorth>they can
04:50<andythenorth>I don't
04:50<peter1138>But anyway!
04:51<andythenorth>less checkboxes
04:51<peter1138>I need to figure out where to put the group livery selector.
04:51<andythenorth>oops I crashed openttd again
04:51<andythenorth>it really hates the grf changing on disk under it
04:51<peter1138>The change above also has a side effect: you can change just one of the 2cc colours and the other can still follow the default colour.
04:52<peter1138>Which I consider a bonus.
04:52<Pikka>o/
04:53<Pikka>such postal
04:54<peter1138>Such what?
04:54<Pikka>RES liveries
04:54<peter1138>Such nice.
04:55<peter1138>Should I split "freight" into steam/diesel/electric like the rest.
04:55<andythenorth>peter1138: I thought about this sort of thing http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8973/liveries_eh.png
04:55<andythenorth>for 'where'
04:55<peter1138>That's what I was thinking.
04:55<andythenorth>the freight / mail / pax handling is just weird anyway
04:55<andythenorth>I'd leave the split alone for now
04:55<peter1138>It is.
04:55<peter1138>Need an icon! Oh no!
04:55<andythenorth>I'm hoping groups kind of replaces the split
04:56<andythenorth>especially because sub-groups
04:56<andythenorth>oh god, do the CC choices have acquisition from parent?
04:56<peter1138>Well I don't think we'll strip it out, but yeah.
04:56<peter1138>Hmm?
04:56<andythenorth>if I have a nested group, are the defaults from the parent?
04:56<peter1138>What do you mean?
04:56<andythenorth>or global default?
04:57<peter1138>Erm, it'll be from the standard livery schemes.
04:57<andythenorth>ok no acquisition
04:57<peter1138>So group -> livery scheme -> default.
04:57<andythenorth>k
04:57<andythenorth>simples
04:57<peter1138>I didn't consider inheritance, probably didn't exist when I originally wrote the patch.
04:57<andythenorth>isn't there a paint icon somewhere?
04:57*andythenorth looks
04:58<peter1138>Why does the ID icon miss the bottom row of the train?
04:59<andythenorth>because obiwan paste
04:59<andythenorth>I guess
04:59<peter1138>:S
04:59<andythenorth>PR :P
05:00<peter1138>Go for it.
05:00<andythenorth>looking for paint palette currently
05:00<peter1138>16 colour palette :D
05:01<peter1138>https://regmedia.co.uk/2012/05/16/arch_2.jpg < Use the !Paint icon! ;)
05:02<andythenorth>kind of had that in mind
05:03<andythenorth>with or without the vehicle type included?
05:08<peter1138>https://regmedia.co.uk/2012/05/16/arch_1.png
05:08<peter1138>There's always that palette ;)
05:09<peter1138>I guess with matches, but then you need lots of icons for no reason?
05:09<andythenorth>v2 :P
05:09<peter1138>Why isn't it just an overlay?
05:09<andythenorth>we need icon composition :P
05:10<peter1138>http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2815&d=1025363195
05:10<peter1138>Mmm
05:17<andythenorth>peter1138: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8974/openttdgui.png
05:17<andythenorth>178
05:17<andythenorth>it's bad, but something to work with
05:18<andythenorth>A3000!
05:18<andythenorth>and it's RAM chips that worked loose
05:18<andythenorth>its *
05:18<peter1138>Why is 177 overflowing?
05:18<andythenorth>dunno
05:18<andythenorth>in retrospect pling[name] was weird about RISC OS
05:19<andythenorth>do you really need to know it's executable that way? :P
05:19<peter1138>:D
05:19<andythenorth>looks like ! to me
05:19<andythenorth>"not Boot"
05:19<peter1138>124-127 are all misaligned...
05:19<peter1138>Should be easy to fix.
05:20<peter1138>Move each up a line and steal the bottom row from the others.
05:20<andythenorth>yup
05:20<peter1138>I can do that!
05:20<andythenorth>biab, jobs
05:20<peter1138>Yeah, indeed.
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05:58<peter1138>Simutrans has underground and elevated lines? Hmm...
05:59*peter1138 ponders a large-scale game mode.
06:00<peter1138>pax production reduced, town radii increased, station capture area increased
06:02<FLHerne>Other than the capture area, that just sounds like normal late-game OTTD :P
06:04<peter1138>Yeah, most of that might be possible with just newgrfs.
06:05<peter1138>Actually pikka had a town grf that increased sprawl and reduced population.
06:05<peter1138>The scrabble one :D
06:06<FLHerne>Mine went from https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=173398 to https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=176576
06:06<FLHerne>And yes, I use that :-)
06:07<FLHerne>It's grown a whole metro network in the last picture, but hard to see
06:08<FLHerne>Like this https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=176309
06:08<FLHerne>Actually, I think that was with JGRPP's passenger-growth-multiplier set to negative, too
06:08<FLHerne>Otherwise it just becomes totally unmanageable
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09:32<andythenorth>but
09:35<peter1138>No buts!
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>no butts?
09:42<V453000>ass
09:44<andythenorth>putting forums people on ignore is confusing
09:44<andythenorth>then I see one side of the arguments they inevitably cause
09:44<andythenorth>and have no idea what started it :P
09:45<V453000>:D
09:46<peter1138>Oh?
09:46<V453000>so today I had a look, it seems that after 6 months of releasing BRIX 0.0.2 I have 5 replies in the tt-forum thread.
09:46<V453000>Do people give a fuck? :D
09:47<andythenorth>I do
09:47<andythenorth>but no need to talk in forums all day about it
09:48<V453000>point
09:48<andythenorth>mostly when I release a grf I get...crickets
09:48<andythenorth>if it was a grf of realistic vehicles in realistic liveries
09:48<andythenorth>not quite well drawn
09:48<andythenorth>and lacking any gameplay balance
09:48<andythenorth>then I would get 47 bazillion replies
09:48<andythenorth>and a medal
09:49<V453000>yes :)
09:49<andythenorth>e.g. original HEQS :P
09:49<andythenorth>such many pages of love
09:50<andythenorth>Road Hog...total crickets
09:50<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> putting forums people on ignore is confusing <-- yeah, it's pretty pointless
09:50<andythenorth>I'll just wait it out until someone cracks and tells acs121 to stop doing it
09:51<V453000>XD
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you only hear from people when things go wrong
09:51<andythenorth>^ truism
09:51<V453000>haha :D another way to look at it
09:53<V453000>so I make worst train set ever, people lose their shit?
09:53<andythenorth>only if realism
09:53<V453000>iz plan?
09:53<V453000>oh
09:53<andythenorth>do poll 'what is your favourite train'
09:53<andythenorth>profit
09:54<andythenorth>I have idea btw
09:54<V453000>wot idea
09:55<andythenorth>so I've been doing this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1205413#p1205413
09:55<andythenorth>vehicle has 2 liveries, and swaps if flipped in depot
09:55<andythenorth>but also....seems CC is exposed as to grfs as a var...
09:56<andythenorth>so I could do 32 liveries per vehicle :P
09:56<andythenorth>and they change according to CC setting
09:56<V453000>:0
09:56<andythenorth>or if it's combinatorial, 512 liveries
09:56<andythenorth>is that enough? o_O
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09:56<V453000>ah so if you ctrl+clikc the vehicle in the depot, it changes livery?
09:57<andythenorth>yes
09:57<andythenorth>doesn't work for articulated :P
09:57<V453000>I guess. :D
09:57<V453000>but yeah, that's a nice idea
09:58<andythenorth>might be terrible :P
09:59<andythenorth>it could have really complicated instructions
09:59<peter1138>Well, 16*16 is 256, not 512. But.
09:59<andythenorth>to get livery xx set CC1 red and CC2 cream, then flip the vehicle and attach to engine A
10:00<peter1138>Still enough.
10:00<andythenorth>peter1138: 2x liveries, using flip
10:00<peter1138>Oh, you include flipping.
10:00<V453000>._.
10:00<peter1138>Urgh.
10:00<andythenorth>also engine-specific liveries :P
10:00<peter1138>Definitely file this under BAD FEATURE.
10:00<andythenorth>and soon...per group option :P
10:00<peter1138>You know we have 65k vehicle slots now...
10:00<andythenorth>this is what BROS is for right?
10:00<andythenorth>or BORTS
10:00<peter1138>Just make each livery a separate vehicle :D
10:00<andythenorth>or whatever it's called now
10:01<peter1138>s/vehicle/vehicle type/
10:01<peter1138>Whatever the nomenclature is.
10:01<andythenorth>thing
10:01<andythenorth>V453000: we need an icon btw
10:02<V453000>?
10:02<andythenorth>icon for changing CC per vehicle group
10:03<andythenorth>I did a temporary one here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8973/liveries_eh.png
10:03<V453000>WTF is this
10:03<V453000>:D
10:03<andythenorth>or 178 here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8974/openttdgui.png
10:03<V453000>oh CC per vehicle group
10:03<V453000>ooooooooo
10:03<andythenorth>yeah
10:03<andythenorth>super for coop play
10:03<V453000>178 looks decent?
10:04<andythenorth>quite bad
10:04<andythenorth>I didn't try arranging colours nicely, just started in top left
10:04<andythenorth>needs some kind of dither fade on it too
10:05<peter1138>andythenorth wants groups to have a use.
10:05<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8975/CC_innit.png
10:05<peter1138>Never mind organising vehicles and routes, it's just about colours ;-)
10:05<andythenorth>dithered
10:05<andythenorth>it's mostly about auto-replace TBH
10:05<V453000>colouring trains per group is super awesome
10:06<peter1138>Should be some order handling as well, isn't there?
10:06<V453000>+666
10:06<V453000>well you can add trains with shared orders to the group
10:06<peter1138>https://i.imgur.com/xPbnOfq.png < tweaked livery UI
10:06<peter1138>I'd like "set all vehicles to the same shared order list"
10:06<andythenorth>peter1138 you can make a group from shared orders if you know the magic key modifier
10:06<V453000>what's different? checkboxes missing?
10:06<andythenorth>but you can't make a group from vehicles at a station
10:06<andythenorth>which would be useful often
10:07<V453000>^
10:07<V453000>that would be quite nice too
10:08<peter1138>"Put ungrouped vehicles in this list into a group" sort thing
10:08<andythenorth>this might be better with 'make group' too http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8976/shared_orders_lacks_group.png
10:08<peter1138>ctrl-click -> -ungrouped
10:08<andythenorth>I guess then the group GUI has to be opened and selected and stuff
10:08<andythenorth>or not
10:08<andythenorth>how to name the group, etc
10:08<andythenorth>faff
10:09<peter1138>Groups have a default name.
10:09<peter1138>A shitty one, but it's something.
10:09<andythenorth>'new group'
10:09<andythenorth>or 'add to group'
10:09<andythenorth>?
10:09<andythenorth>or both?
10:09<andythenorth>too much UI :P
10:09<peter1138>Well
10:10<peter1138>Let's do none of it. It's too much UI.
10:10<peter1138>V453000, yeah, no checkboxes, "default" option in drop down list instead.
10:10<andythenorth>total winner
10:10<V453000>default = colour of company I guess
10:10<peter1138>yes, could be better wording.
10:11<V453000>sense makes it
10:11<V453000>like I
10:11<peter1138>"Company primary colour" is a bit long :p
10:11<V453000>yeah
10:11<peter1138>could be "inherit"
10:11<V453000>CC1 CC2
10:11<V453000>see wiki for explanation
10:11<V453000>:D
10:11<V453000>Default sounds ok
10:11<andythenorth>damn you V453000
10:12<andythenorth>I am playing synthwave again
10:12<V453000>:d
10:12<andythenorth>so melodic
10:12<andythenorth>very chords
10:13<peter1138>Ah, purple and cyan. Very CGA colour-scheme.
10:13<andythenorth>seems nice
10:13<andythenorth>many fine BBC games used those colours
10:13<peter1138>http://www.welovedosgames.net/images/images/keen4cga1.png
10:14<peter1138>Hmm, group liveries and... rgb colours :p
10:14<andythenorth>ah pengo http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k_j0xHIM5mw/0.jpg
10:15<andythenorth>check out the opening screen, most awesome graphics for time
10:15<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_j0xHIM5mw
10:15<andythenorth>ah the author posted on YT too
10:15<peter1138>Pengo on the PC used the other scheme, red, green and yellow.
10:15<andythenorth>that ice crack animation is amazing
10:15<peter1138>Yeah
10:16<peter1138>That's not an animation, it's just drawing it.
10:16<andythenorth>dunnio
10:16<andythenorth>it's a moving drawing :P
10:16<andythenorth>I see your point :P
10:16<andythenorth>"All the code was written in 6502 assembler. If I left the code for more than a week than I couldn't understand what I'd written and had to start again. Several games got abandoned like that."
10:16<andythenorth>funny
10:17<andythenorth>paperboy, classic limited colours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UauXdyw_z-A
10:17<peter1138>:D
10:17<andythenorth>"I had a patch for that"
10:17<andythenorth>"in 6502 assembler"
10:17<peter1138>AndyWilliams aye
10:18<peter1138>Airwolf
10:18<andythenorth>hmm
10:18<andythenorth>at work we have "I fixed it, but in my python egg cache"
10:18<andythenorth>which is same thing
10:20<peter1138>http://www.welovedosgames.net/images/images/pfcga1.png
10:21<andythenorth>classic
10:21<andythenorth>such company colours
10:23<andythenorth>bbls
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10:26<@Alberth>o/
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10:52<@Alberth>o/
10:54<andythenorth>hi Alberth
10:54<andythenorth>Pikka bob
10:54<Pikka>o/
10:55<andythenorth>Pikka: train 89 has CCTs in it http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8966/hoose_moo_3.png
10:55<andythenorth>should I do fake ones for 1990 and 2020?
10:55<andythenorth>IRL not a thing
10:56<Pikka>hmmm
10:57<Pikka>maybe? or just leave the old ones to continue on?
10:57<andythenorth>maybe
11:00<andythenorth>let's see
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11:07<andythenorth>hmm
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11:26<andythenorth>`http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8978/horse-cee_cee_tee.png or something
11:28<andythenorth>bbl
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11:58<peter1138>Who are these people who worry about what their company manager face looks like?
11:59<peter1138>If it's tedius to setup, why bother... :p
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause>didn't we have a company preset patch once?
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12:27<peter1138>So... evening.
12:40<peter1138>Hmm, bin/baseset is ignored in .gitignore, but openttd.grf within it is showing as modified.
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12:41<peter1138>As a dev, do I have to do a PR or can I just commit to master?
12:42<+glx>PR
12:44<LordAro>peter1138: i imagine you *can* commit to master
12:44<LordAro>but TrueBrain will shout at you
12:44<+glx>I think the commits are rejected
12:44<LordAro>well translators can commit directly, and i don't think github lets you restrict it per user..
12:45<+glx>translators is a special case
12:45<peter1138>Lack of granular authorisation is a bit weird.
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12:49<peter1138>Icon 177 is a bit suspicious. Some kind of parcel poking out the side of it.
12:58<peter1138>s/Icon/Sprite/
12:59<peter1138>This jenkins is so slow :p
12:59<peter1138>Yay, passed. Obviously, there was no code change.
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13:06<+glx>reviewing bin changes is less easy than reviewing a diff :)
13:07<peter1138>Aye, especially before I edited the comment to say which sprites had changed!
13:07<+glx>yes it helped :)
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13:14<Wolf01>o/
13:14<peter1138>Hmm, TrueBrain does something to get the PR number in the commit.
13:18<TrueBrain>Squash :)
13:18<TrueBrain>LordAro: you are wrong btw :)
13:18<+glx>ha yes squash adds the number, rebase doesn't
13:20<peter1138>TrueBrain, about which bit?
13:20<TrueBrain>[18:44] <LordAro> well translators can commit directly, and i don't think github lets you restrict it per user..
13:20<TrueBrain>it is a lie :)
13:20<+glx>translators is not a real user ;)
13:20<TrueBrain>that is a lie too :)
13:20<+glx>not even a member of the organisation
13:20<TrueBrain>DorpsGek has a full account; and he pushes the commit
13:21<TrueBrain>(in git, you can push anything; you can fill a PR with random names, and if you accept it, that is in git; the name in git is meaningless)
13:21<+glx>but indeed owners have all rights
13:21<TrueBrain>all restrictions in GitHub are not per git author or anything
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13:25<peter1138>TrueBrain, but he's right about the shouting at us? :p
13:26<TrueBrain>peter1138: you cannot push directly to master
13:26<TrueBrain>you have to go through a PR
13:26<TrueBrain>so there is no need for any shouting :)
13:26<peter1138>Aww
13:27<peter1138>How's it going with the nightlies?
13:28<TrueBrain>people keep bugging me :P
13:28<peter1138>Meanies.
13:28<peter1138>I'm not bugging, just asking!
13:29<peter1138>Bah, annoying that mouse-warp doesn't work in a Hyper-V VM :(
13:29<TrueBrain>closing tickets that wont be implemented any time soon anywayyyyyyyy
13:29<TrueBrain>and now I have to install a new Docker slave :)
13:31<peter1138>Maybe I should have a native Linux machine instead.
13:33<TrueBrain>and I should pick up Ansible ..
13:33<TrueBrain>peter1138: did you check #6726 ?
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13:33<peter1138>Yes, seems to do what it says on the tin.
13:34<TrueBrain>so time to learn yourself how to squash a commit? :D
13:34<peter1138>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6465#issuecomment-379454995
13:34<peter1138>So it is apparently not supported but seems to work :p
13:35<TrueBrain>:)
13:35<TrueBrain>unexpected features :D
13:36<peter1138>Squash and merge eh?
13:36<TrueBrain>or rebase
13:36<TrueBrain>depends on who you ask here :)
13:37<peter1138>Well, it contains edits, logically if it was a standalone patch we'd only apply the end result.
13:38<TrueBrain>I think squash is best here
13:38<TrueBrain>as I dont care about 2 commits in master :)
13:42<TrueBrain>gratz!
13:42<peter1138>str... ...ings YEAH.
13:51<peter1138>Pull requests: 0
13:52<LordAro>wow, project so dead
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13:54<TrueBrain>and only 234 tickets, pfft
13:54<TrueBrain>and new tickets are immediatly closed with: sure, show us a PR!
13:54<TrueBrain>they want ME TO DO ALL THE WORK
13:54<peter1138>:D
13:55<_dp_>cool, time to add another PR xD
13:55<TrueBrain>you go girl!
13:57<peter1138>Having a i7 8700K certainly makes compilation less painful.
13:57*peter1138 times a make clean, make
13:58<TrueBrain>recent ... 2012 ... (BSD and SVN move)
13:58<peter1138>40 seconds, seems ok.
13:58<peter1138>TrueBrain, ah, I didn't check the facts. Fake news!
13:58<TrueBrain>he posted a new link
13:58<TrueBrain>in which it says 2012 ..
14:00<Maarten>is autopilot still the preferred way of adding custom !commands to a server, or are there other methods these days?
14:04<frosch123>noone uses autopilot
14:04<frosch123>coop uses soap, other people use other stuff
14:07<frosch123>TrueBrain: openbsd is in cvs, with github mirror
14:08<frosch123>but yes, it's weird that someone would pickup svn in 2012
14:11<TrueBrain>its weird to post about it in 2018 :P
14:16<peter1138>I wonder which patch pack has the most comprehensive savegame system.
14:16<TrueBrain>JGR
14:16<peter1138>That's the one I saw, yeah.
14:19<peter1138>Hmm, --enable-debug=3 causes gdb to hang on start up :S
14:19<frosch123>yes, it takes some time since some version
14:20<peter1138>Hmm.
14:20<frosch123>i wasn't aware that it only happens with =3
14:20<peter1138>Trying with 2.
14:20<frosch123>i thought it was busy scanning /usr/include or something
14:20<peter1138>It's fine with 2.
14:21<frosch123>for me it started with stretch, it did not happen in jessie
14:23<LordAro>works fine on arch
14:23<LordAro>oh, you mean when running, don't you?
14:23<LordAro>that hangs
14:23<TrueBrain>lol
14:24<TrueBrain>no no, we are fine, no no, there is no burning house here. Owh, you mean that house with fire coming out of it? Yeah, we screwed :)
14:24<LordAro>well, i figured it did /usr/include scanning on startup
14:25<TrueBrain>wow, compiling OSX is a lot faster on this new box where there isnt a cryptominer running ..... :@
14:25<LordAro>funny that
14:26<LordAro>strace shows last entry "read(15, "\177ELF\2\1\...."
14:26<TrueBrain>so what is on fd 15?
14:26<LordAro>good question
14:26<LordAro>probably ottd
14:26<LordAro>there it goes
14:27<LordAro>just took a while to read in the binary?
14:31<frosch123>i did not figure out what it was doing, i got used to it :p
14:31<LordAro>it is a 104MB binary
14:31<LordAro>which is a bit silly
14:31<frosch123>it was always that big
14:32<peter1138>Eh, not always :)
14:32<frosch123>maybe older gdb did not read everything on start
14:32<frosch123>peter1138: since 0.5 is always
14:34<peter1138>Took about a minute to start.
14:34<peter1138>And my PC is not slow :(
14:34<frosch123>that's the tar scanning
14:34<frosch123>it's faster the second time when stuff is in cache
14:34<frosch123>also, non-debug build is way faster
14:35<frosch123>find a way to always optimise md5sum.cpp :p
14:35<peter1138>Hmm, I've got 4 tars.
14:35<frosch123>newer gcc have attributes to toggle optimisation within sources
14:35<peter1138>6 grfs include the baseset.
14:36<frosch123>hmm, actually md5sum is only used in the newgrf scan, still tar scan takes ages for unknown reason
14:36<peter1138>Well, at least my position is correct now, not jumping all over the place.
14:46<V453000>working with x1 is so cute after fucking with x4 for years
14:46<V453000>._.
14:50<Wolf01>Hello V
14:55<peter1138>What's a reasonable AI for just testing stuff?
14:56<Wolf01>You should ask samu
14:57<frosch123>simpleai probably
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15:22<peter1138>ta
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15:34<TrueBrain>meh; the 10.13 is hard to cross compile
15:34<TrueBrain>osxcross hasnt really been updated in a year or so
15:34<TrueBrain>so it is a bit .. annoying :D
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15:36<andythenorth> o/
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15:36<frosch123>would you recommend storing files as blobs in postgres, or only storing keys to find raw files on disk?
15:37<frosch123>hmm, probably files on disk are easier for running tool subprocesses and mirroring and stuff
15:37<TrueBrain>never store files in databases, if you dont want to do anything with them except storing :)
15:37<TrueBrain>for that we already have a database .. we call it a filesystem :)
15:37*andythenorth has fear of blobstorage
15:37<TrueBrain>it is the easiest way to keep your database :)
15:37<TrueBrain>if you write BLOB, you are doing it wrong :)
15:38<TrueBrain>so yeah frosch123 .. normally you reference them from the database :)
15:38<TrueBrain>even more if they are immutable
15:38<TrueBrain>personally I tempt to store them based on id of the database, so you get a folder like 1/0/0/10010.tar
15:38<TrueBrain>(100 files per folder)
15:38<TrueBrain>git does it in hex, with 2 char per directory I think
15:39<TrueBrain>(this is just to not kill your filesystem with 100000 files in a folder :D)
15:42<_dp_>just don't run out of inodes ;)
15:44<andythenorth>one day, everything will be better
15:44<frosch123>sounds religious
15:45<TrueBrain>okay, it seems that 10.12 might work, where 10.13 most likely wont ..
15:45<andythenorth>10.13 is the plague
15:45<TrueBrain>why?
15:46<andythenorth>you can log in as 'root' and no password
15:46<andythenorth>and it has cursor artefacts in openttd
15:46<andythenorth>child #1 has 10.13
15:46<andythenorth>I have 10.12
15:46<TrueBrain>I was hoping to use the 10.13 SDK to compile
15:46<TrueBrain>as that gives broader support
15:46<andythenorth>it's "probably fine"
15:47<andythenorth>I don't know what SDK I'm linked against when I compile
15:47<andythenorth>but I keep XCode up to date
15:47<TrueBrain>10.12 will work
15:47<TrueBrain>but in my experience it is better to have newer
15:49<TrueBrain>so okay, downloading XCode 8.3.3 .. ugh
15:50<andythenorth>yay peter fixed the icons
15:50<andythenorth>thanks
15:50<peter1138>To be contrary, I have some files stored in pgsql.
15:53<peter1138>However it is quite a specific environment.
15:55<frosch123>yes, at work they are stored as blob, so you can transfer the database and have everything
15:57<TrueBrain>hmm, from my understanding, 10.12 doesnt support x17, 10.13 does
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16:03<TrueBrain>I wish extracting xcode was faster .. meant I would have looked through the other variants to see when they switched to v3 of tbd ..
16:03<andythenorth>need help? o_O
16:04<andythenorth>although...I have been drinking :P
16:04<TrueBrain>first reports about this i see are from this month
16:04<TrueBrain>and there was a new xcode end of last month
16:04<TrueBrain>so POSSIBLY they changed something there :P
16:06<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I want to know the first line of the libSystem.B.tbd in Xcode xip files :D
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16:07*andythenorth googles how to find that
16:08<TrueBrain>no worries :)
16:08<TrueBrain>8.3.3 is v2, 9.3 is v3
16:09<TrueBrain>just 3 more versions to check :)
16:09<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzn11d3uk/izsbii/raw
16:09<TrueBrain>which XCode?
16:09<andythenorth>Version 9.2 (9C40b)
16:09<TrueBrain>that is good news
16:10<TrueBrain>extracting that as we speak :)
16:10<andythenorth>want me to rent us a mac?
16:10<TrueBrain>nope
16:10<andythenorth>k
16:10<andythenorth>easy not to
16:10<andythenorth>zero effort
16:10<TrueBrain>possibly I should upgrade my clang :)
16:10<TrueBrain>just no clue which version OSX is running
16:10<TrueBrain>couldnt match their version :)
16:11<+glx><TrueBrain> so POSSIBLY they changed something there :P <-- they always change something
16:11<TrueBrain>just didnt expect such a change from 9.2 to 9.3 in xcode
16:11<TrueBrain>both are 10.13
16:12<andythenorth>apple is currently clown shoes
16:12<andythenorth>except where they're awesome
16:12<andythenorth>it's very hit and miss
16:12<andythenorth>the awesome is really awesome, and the bad is so bad
16:13<TrueBrain>okay, confirmed Xcode 9.2 should work
16:13<andythenorth>soon macs will need to start playing 'keep the faith' at startup, like they used to in 1994
16:17<TrueBrain>okay, this at least explains the reports that people had it working on 10,13 :D
16:20<LordAro>10.13 (assuming that's High Sierra) apparently managed to entirely break their authentication backend in various separate ways
16:20<_dp_>pff, github doesn't allow attaching bz2 archives :/
16:21<andythenorth>github bans .diff and .patch too
16:21<andythenorth>weird
16:22<TrueBrain>yeah, still something we have to solve
16:22<TrueBrain>also for crash.dmps
16:22<TrueBrain>I still consider a way to upload it from the client directly
16:22<TrueBrain>in the crash dialog :)
16:23<andythenorth>hmm
16:23<andythenorth>should I remove all articulated vehicles from Horse?
16:23<andythenorth>to allow livery flipping?
16:23<andythenorth>[articulated vehicles can't be flipped for....reasons]
16:23<TrueBrain>I seriously have no clue what you just said :D That is awesome :D
16:24<andythenorth>TrueBrain: how many years since you played ottd? o_O
16:24<TrueBrain>the individual words arent the issue .. but the sentences in total ... like you talk a different language to me :D
16:24<TrueBrain>I never touched NewGRFs :)
16:24<andythenorth>innit
16:24<andythenorth>whole world
16:25<andythenorth>peter1138: so when can I test a livery branch in your fork? :D
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16:26<frosch123>TrueBrain: andy joined the folks of abusing the spec in ways never intended or even imagined. usual grf stuff :)
16:26<TrueBrain>I would like to act surprised
16:26<TrueBrain>but really
16:26<TrueBrain>I am not
16:26<TrueBrain>:D
16:27<andythenorth>cows http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-43802862/county-antrim-cows-jump-for-joy-after-winter-indoors
16:27<andythenorth>jumping
16:27<andythenorth>oh and 2 clicks away me https://consultations.nidirect.gov.uk/daera-forest-service/scoping-a-new-forestry-plan-for-antrim-fpa/
16:27<andythenorth>sometimes the internet is fun
16:28<andythenorth>I play a game 'how far from a news story to one of our customers'
16:28*andythenorth digressing
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16:30<andythenorth>frosch123: think we could flip articulated consists in depot? o_O
16:31<_dp_>ok, let's continue with this one :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6736
16:31<frosch123>how about mousewheel to rotate subtypes? :p
16:32<andythenorth>frosch123: not a bad idea :P
16:32<andythenorth>flipping articulated means steam engines could run backwards
16:32<andythenorth>it's legit :)
16:33<TrueBrain>right .. 10.13 is running again ...
16:33<andythenorth>http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrsalt967.htm
16:35<andythenorth>even big ones http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwr/canleyhalt/lnwrchg2807.jpg
16:35<TrueBrain>_dp_: script_client.hpp, has a doxygen comment c1, c2 and c3
16:36<TrueBrain>that .... is .. a bit weird :D
16:37<_dp_>TrueBrain, hm, yeah, probably copied from somewhere else xD
16:37<TrueBrain>:D
16:39<frosch123>andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=168674&sid=89f06be48ca56637d78ce645a9587e6d
16:42<TrueBrain>okay ... PROGRESS! Compiler-rt is building .... *shocked*
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16:44<TrueBrain>so now which OSX to target ... CHOICES!
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16:48<andythenorth>what has frosch sent me? o_O
16:48<TrueBrain>a unicorn?
16:48<andythenorth>dunno
16:48<LordAro>TrueBrain: all of them!
16:48<TrueBrain>okay, macports is running ...
16:48<TrueBrain>and macports finished
16:48<andythenorth>:o
16:49<TrueBrain>now to test it .. euuuhhhhhh
16:49<andythenorth>send it to me :P
16:50<TrueBrain>no, first need to compile OpenTTD now :)
16:50<_dp_>TrueBrain, fixed :)
16:50<andythenorth>TrueBrain: have you added the coin miner? :|
16:50<TrueBrain>it is back, yes
16:50<andythenorth>I am short of battery, so you won't get many coins
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16:54<TrueBrain>okay ... it is compiling OpenTTD ..
16:54<TrueBrain>with clang even
16:54<TrueBrain>(as I kinda didnt want to install gcc)
16:55<TrueBrain>just wish it auto-detected clang
16:55*TrueBrain looks at LordAro
16:55<LordAro>fixing it properly involves making an already bad function worse
16:55<LordAro>s/properly//
16:55<TrueBrain>so we need to find out if cmake is an option :D
16:56<TrueBrain>okay, lets see if it wants to link ...
16:56<LordAro>fixing it properly is a bit more involved
16:56<LordAro>TrueBrain: eh, i still dunno
16:56<TrueBrain>do we want to support 32bit on OSX?
16:56<TrueBrain>the SDK does contain everything for it
16:56<TrueBrain>but feels like a waste
16:57<andythenorth>I wouldn't
16:57<andythenorth>Apple will kill 32 bit soon
16:57<andythenorth>forcibly
16:58<TrueBrain>okay, errors ..
16:58<TrueBrain>unknown property attribute 'class'
16:58<TrueBrain>NSCharacterSet.h
16:58<TrueBrain>always nice if their own header files fail to compile ...
16:59<andythenorth>oh god I broke everything https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1205416#p1205416
17:00<andythenorth>but some users, track record suggests PEBKAC
17:00<andythenorth>25.9MB save :o
17:01<andythenorth>wtf
17:01<andythenorth>mine are 300KB or so
17:01<andythenorth>has he crafted me a malware?
17:02<andythenorth>hth is this page spawning window.open when chrome has it blocked? :P http://www.mediafire.com/file/wpvoquybaiis27a/bug.sav
17:04<TrueBrain>okay, seems my clang is too old for this crap
17:06<TrueBrain>Obj-C had some additions in 2016
17:06<TrueBrain>so lets try a newer clang I guess
17:06<TrueBrain>debian:sid it is! :)
17:07<LordAro>aaahh
17:09<TrueBrain>4.7 on sid .. not 6.0 or even 5.0
17:09<TrueBrain>but lets try it :)
17:09<TrueBrain>euh, 4.0
17:09<TrueBrain>lol
17:11<LordAro>is there no llvm ppa/repo you can add?
17:11<LordAro>actually, you're using docker instances, is there not one of those?
17:11<TrueBrain>possibly
17:11<TrueBrain>I try to stick to debian slim images where possible
17:12<TrueBrain>hmm .. it fails to find liblzo2.so.2 .. lol
17:12<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: The full C++11 OSX libc++ starts with 10.9 I think (10.7/8 are apparently missing something), so I'd chose 10.9 as the min macosx version.
17:12<TrueBrain>thank you :)
17:12<+michi_cc>Still using the 10.12 (or 10.13 SDK).
17:12<TrueBrain>ofc
17:13<TrueBrain>okay, why am I missing this so file .. and why can I not install it :@
17:13<+michi_cc>After the latest patch round, current (non-C++11 OTTD) will compile and run fine with a clang/min 10.7 build.
17:14<TrueBrain>okay, this is very weird .... I have liblzo2-2 install
17:14<TrueBrain>but I have a .a file instead of a .so
17:14<TrueBrain>I have to reinstall it to get it
17:14<TrueBrain>I tihnk the debian:sid-slim is not fully correct :D
17:15<+michi_cc>Missing for host or target? Because if your end result depends on a .so, you'll not find many takers :)
17:15<TrueBrain>host
17:15<TrueBrain>really a debian:sid issue
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17:17<TrueBrain>not even a clue where the .a came from .. lol
17:17<peter1138>Hmm, so bootstrap 4 is not compatible with bootstrap 3.
17:19<andythenorth>if we mean the UI framework, then it can be upgraded
17:19<andythenorth>if we mean one of the many other bootstraps, dunno :P
17:19<andythenorth>bootstrap major versions historically aren't compatible
17:20<peter1138>_dp_, imagine the fun with a trolling multiplayer GSViewport.ScrollTo :D
17:21<peter1138>andythenorth, yeah... fortunately my v3 version was a WIP, so now it's just a v4 WIP.
17:21<_dp_>peter1138, servers can have so much fun already, one more function doesn't matter :p
17:21<andythenorth>afaik 3 to 4 is easier than 2 to 3
17:21<andythenorth>I've done 2 to 3 multiple times
17:22<peter1138>Well, my nav bar was gone.
17:22<peter1138>btn-xs gone
17:22<peter1138>table-condensed...
17:22<andythenorth>there's usually a migration guide in bootstrap docs
17:23<andythenorth>I didn't look because it's flexbox native
17:23<andythenorth>and I have to support IE so eh
17:23<LordAro>F
17:23<TrueBrain>clang-6 is in stretch:backports .. that might be worth it I guess
17:24<peter1138>_dp_, style-wise looks fine, but I know nothing about squirrel nor gamescripts.
17:25<peter1138> +/* THIS FILE IS AUTO-GENERATED; PLEASE DO NOT ALTER MANUALLY */
17:25<peter1138>Hmm, what magic generated that? heh
17:25<andythenorth>sounds like something in my newgrfs :P
17:25<+glx>some .in :)
17:25<andythenorth>I have a few of those
17:26<_dp_>peter1138, src/script/api/squirrel_export.sh
17:26<peter1138>See, proper magic.
17:26*LordAro wonders if that can be done with template magic instead
17:26<peter1138>I see it carefully generates the pointless /* $Id$ */ comments...
17:27<TrueBrain>lot of warnings with clang 4 :)
17:27<TrueBrain>well, 1, over and over
17:27<TrueBrain>smallstack something
17:28<LordAro>TrueBrain: that's the clang warning i mentioned :)
17:28<TrueBrain>around the lock
17:28<TrueBrain>so why isnt there a fix yet?! :P
17:28<LordAro>https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/commit/1ef27df426cfa5d586c76813064470e8949ae049 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:29<TrueBrain>lol
17:29<TrueBrain>but I see why you want a compiler-farm
17:29<TrueBrain>with a lot of different compilers telling you where we fucked up :)
17:29<LordAro>:)
17:30<TrueBrain>you do need to state which you want to support first, ofc, but meh :)
17:30<TrueBrain>okay, tomorrow going to try debian:stretch with backports, as I dont like what I am seeing here :D
17:30<TrueBrain>but it is compiling the OSX binary again
17:30<TrueBrain>so meh :)
17:30<TrueBrain>this time without error on the obj files
17:30<+glx>_dp_: source.list modified but you forgot projects/generate
17:31<TrueBrain>it even linked :o
17:31<LordAro>TrueBrain: :o
17:31<TrueBrain>35 MiB
17:31<_dp_>glx, riiight, always forget weird systems exist xD
17:31<TrueBrain>Mach-O 64-bit
17:31<TrueBrain>so ... this seems to work
17:32<+glx>at least we have scripts to help
17:32<TrueBrain>some shit to fix, but nothing to crazy .. this targetted 10.13 .. but 10.9 sounds better :D
17:32<TrueBrain>PROGRESS
17:32<TrueBrain>but for now
17:32<TrueBrain>night!
17:32<LordAro>o7
17:33<+glx>next step windows ;)
17:34<peter1138>glx, heh, yeah, I remember having to manually update the random project files :)
17:34<Wolf01>'night
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17:34<+glx>peter1138: we have to many project files to do it manually
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17:43<peter1138>These days, yes.
17:48*andythenorth running out of livery variations :P
17:48<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=202540
17:49<andythenorth>only so many ways to do horizontal stripes of 1CC / 2CC :P
17:51<peter1138>Problem with bootstrap is it introduces so much presentation detail into the HTML :S
17:52<andythenorth>I stopped worrying about that years ago
17:52<andythenorth>I read a lot of blog posts about people bollocksing on about semantic html
17:53<andythenorth>and then I looked up the actual semantic meaning of <div> and <span>
17:53<andythenorth>and decided the bloggers were a bit thick
17:54<andythenorth>purple train https://www.visaopanoramica.com/518660/mark-2-coaches-attractive-first-scotrail-caledonian-sleeper-3-7848837.html
17:54<andythenorth>probly purple not mauve CC
17:55<peter1138>Will you mirror the text too?
17:55<andythenorth>not so much
17:55<andythenorth>it's nice that they did though
18:01<andythenorth>bed innit
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20:50<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> I still consider a way to upload it from the client directly <-- i think one of the downsides is that you won't have any means of contacting for further questions
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22:46<supermop>Pikka: i expect ypu to buy several xxxxs per month now with my pledge
22:46<Pikka>ewww :P
22:46<Pikka>can I buy something nicer? ;)
22:47<supermop>haha i should have specified in the pledge "for 4x only, not for makeing sprites"
22:47<Pikka>it's much appreciated :)
22:48<supermop>how's architecture school? i would have warned you off it
22:49<supermop>i trust you'll make more of it that i have
22:50<Pikka>we're both making TTD sprites, what more could there be? :)
22:51<supermop>i started working as an architect again this year
22:52<Pikka>good times?
22:52<supermop>then quit 2 weeks ago to work for a modular construction company
22:52<Pikka>oh :)
22:52<supermop>still have not come to a final reckoning of how i feel about that
22:52<supermop>i regret it, but also modular stuff is sort of my whole deal
22:55<Pikka>if it's leading in a direction you want to go in, I guess you have to take the leap some times...
22:58<supermop>well we'll see
23:00<supermop>the 47 looks cute
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23:04<Pikka>:)
23:05<Pikka>I was a bit worried about the length... I drew the 20 first, but drew it as 8/8, so I guess all the diesels and electrics are going to be the same size.
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23:15<supermop>hmm 20 does look a bit big
23:20<Pikka>hmm
23:20<Pikka>it doesn't look too bad shortened to 7/8, maybe I'll do that
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23:38<supermop>night for now
23:41<Pikka>gnight
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 18 00:00:35 2018