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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-22

---Logopened Sun Apr 22 00:00:40 2018
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01:56<@Alberth>moin
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02:15<@Alberth>hello andy and albert!
02:16<@Alberth>mr aro will consider balance somewhat disturbed :p
02:17<Pikka>a disturbance in the farce?
02:20<andythenorth>hello
02:21<ZehMatt>good morning
02:21<@Alberth>too many alberts online at the same time
02:22*andythenorth can't remember
02:24*Pikka is only a pretend Albert
02:24<@Alberth>https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1524182400#1524232870
02:25<Pikka>it was one of my grandfather's middle names, but I got the other one :)
02:25<@Alberth>so balance should be ok, phew!
02:28*peter1138 blows up the game
02:28<peter1138>Or maybe that's bloats...
02:29<andythenorth>does anyone know why NRT forbids downgrade?
02:29<andythenorth>my local spec says reason is here http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd&date=1515283200
02:29<peter1138>Might give cycling a miss today, my legs are still a bit iffy after Friday night and Saturday's effort
02:29<andythenorth>but I can't see it
02:29<ZehMatt>how many of you are actually playing OpenTTD once a while?
02:29<andythenorth>players are complaining
02:29<andythenorth>now we have to add more BS error messages to game
02:29<andythenorth>maybe for bogus reasons
02:30<peter1138>andythenorth, just let them change colours per group, then they'll all shut up and be happy.
02:30<andythenorth>ok
02:31<peter1138>Signal: Floating point exception (8)
02:31<peter1138>OMG
02:31<Pikka>you broke it
02:31<peter1138>I tried to divide by zero ;(
02:31<Pikka>you mad impulsive fool you
02:31*Pikka goes shopwards, bbs
02:35<@Alberth>ZehMatt: depending how often "once in a while" means, somewhere between nobody and a few, is my guess
02:35<@Alberth>at least for the people that say words here
02:35<ZehMatt>im having trouble playing games where I have access to the code :v
02:35<ZehMatt>for odd reasons im having more fun messing with that
02:36<ZehMatt>so im wondering if im alone here
02:36<@Alberth>yep, playing code games is more satisfying :p
02:36<andythenorth>metagame
02:36<andythenorth>the game of OpenTTD is making the game
02:37<ZehMatt>i never played transport tycoon imho
02:37<ZehMatt>and only a few times OpenTTD with a friend
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02:38<peter1138>Oh, I broke it again.
02:38<ZehMatt>also gotta admit nice project
02:38<@Alberth>forever finding new ways to break the program, peter?
02:38<ZehMatt>since its chris sawyers code I can see alot of resemblence from RCT2
02:39<peter1138>Not exactly.
02:39<ZehMatt>i can see a lot of things that are close to identical
02:40<peter1138>Do you mean OpenRCT2?
02:41<@Alberth>yep, he has been selling basically the same program 4-5 times or so :)
02:41<ZehMatt>well yeah I work on that project
02:41<ZehMatt>sometimes*
02:41<ZehMatt>i began fixing the multiplayer desyncs there a year ago
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02:41<ZehMatt>and other strange things that i found over the time
02:43<peter1138>The original code for both was x86 assembly, so...
02:44<ZehMatt>well yeah
02:45<ZehMatt>you guys also changed how the isometric sorting works
02:45<ZehMatt>orct2 still uses the vanilla variant and its pittyful
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03:42<andythenorth>Pikka: which slugs? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8991/horse_slugs.png
03:42<andythenorth>black nose or CC nose
03:44<Pikka>cc nose with black vent, I think
03:44<Pikka>29/39
03:45<Pikka>or maybe vary by livery... I like the black nose on the grey/yellow
03:46<Pikka>hmm
03:46<Pikka>yes, cc nose with black vent :P
03:48<andythenorth>good, CC nose is best
03:48<andythenorth>realism says black but eh
03:48<andythenorth>windows disappear with black
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03:49<Wolf01>Moin
03:50<andythenorth>hi Wolf01
03:50<andythenorth>I absolutely can't remember why NRT forbids downgrade
03:50<andythenorth>I checked logs, and it's *not* to prevent deliberate griefin
03:50<andythenorth>g
03:51<Wolf01>Forbids downgrade in towns so you can't disrupt an electrified network made by another player
03:51<Wolf01>Since town roads can be converted by any player
03:52<andythenorth>hmm I'm missing the transcript
03:52<Wolf01>The discussion was about "if I convert town roads, who'll get the ownership?" we decided to let town keep the ownership of town roads
03:52<peter1138>Hmm, Garmin Edge 130, £170 :S
03:53<andythenorth>bargain
03:53<andythenorth>ok so the 'no downgrade' is to prevent griefing?
03:53<Wolf01>Yes, you wanted that really much
03:53<peter1138>My 25 was £50 in Aldi, that was a bargain. But its battery life is dropping.
03:54<andythenorth>http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd&date=1515283200#1515353295
03:54<andythenorth>there must be logs from another day where I changed my mind about griefing
03:55<andythenorth>the rule seemed to be that all town roads must be compatible with ROAD always
03:56<Wolf01>Yes, that too
03:56<Wolf01>You can't convert town roads to HAUL
03:56<andythenorth>but you also can't downgrade your own roads?
03:57<Wolf01>With your roads you can do anything you want
03:57<Wolf01>They are yours :D
03:58<andythenorth>apparently not
03:58<andythenorth>apparently convert is only upwards
03:58<andythenorth>I haven't tested mind you
03:58<andythenorth>I'm going by reports of my least-favourite forum poster
03:58<Wolf01>Not the town roads you converted, but the ones you buiild
03:58<Wolf01>*built
04:00<Wolf01>Also I don't seem to be able to split the NRT patch to simple ones... I'm stuck on the cost calculation stuff now :(
04:00<Wolf01>We changed that part a lot
04:00<andythenorth>:P
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04:04<peter1138>Does cost calculation need to change initially?
04:05<Wolf01>The cost for NRT is based on the subtype, every road can define it's own, so no more "count bits and sum an hardcoded cost"
04:06<peter1138>Yes, but initially, patch-splitting-wise, there won't be extra subtypes.
04:07<Wolf01>Yes, but the problem is that we use also RoadTypeIdentifiers in place of Roadtypes, and stuff like bitwise operations need to be changed accordingly
04:09<arahael>So, I have about 35k units of cargo delivered to a particular station (trains only).
04:09<arahael>I'm wondering what the max capacity of a station is, under ideal conditions. (12x7)
04:09<Pikka>andythenorth, can you upgrade other players' roads?
04:09<andythenorth>not according to spec
04:09<andythenorth>only yours and unowned (TOWN)
04:09<andythenorth>actually iirc, town is owner NONE
04:10<andythenorth>can't remember about bankrupts
04:10<Wolf01>Town is owner_town
04:10<arahael>Pikka: My town has an open sewer. Every resident complains about it. It's owned by a railway station... We've covered *every* open sewer except for that one. I woudl therefore suggest that it's realistic not being able to upgrade another player's road.
04:10<Wolf01>Owner_none is for SE placed roads or bankruptcy companies
04:10<arahael>Pikka: Why, afterall, would you give another company money to upgrade *their* road?
04:11<Pikka>arahael: because you want to build your highway across their dirt track
04:11<Wolf01>Make a bridge
04:11<arahael>Pikka: You'd need to buy the road.
04:12<Pikka>perhaps. I was just offering it as a possible reason for "no downgrading roads". if you can upgrade other players' roads, it makes sense you can only upgrade them to better and compatible road types.
04:12<Wolf01>In any way, you are still free to put tramways over other players' roads, like it's now
04:12<Wolf01>Or roads under other players' tramways
04:12<arahael>Pikka: I don't think I'd want to allow other companies to upgrade _my_ roads, if it gives them a further competitive advantage.
04:12<@Alberth>I don't think you can win in all situations
04:12<arahael>Pikka: I'd only appreciate the upgrade if I was about ot make use of it myself.
04:13<Wolf01>Unless the road/tram spec forbids to build the other basetype
04:13<@Alberth>bbl
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04:14*arahael has 35k units of cargo per month delivered to this particular station, and 24 billion dollars. Hmm.
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04:20<andythenorth>ok BBl
04:21<peter1138>Oh
04:23<peter1138>So I added a scrollbar to the livery window and now it doesn't resize :S
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04:25<arahael>livery/
04:25<arahael>?
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04:37<Wolf01>peter1138: https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commit/ce579c6cd2e0f264c095cf87b4cc4986294d92fc#diff-249239106fd58103249d1178388d72feR989 could you help me on this?
04:41<Wolf01>I would just put cost.AddCost(_price[PR_BUILD_ROAD] * (2 - num_roadbits)); on both road and tram parts and remove the cost.AddCost(_price[PR_BUILD_ROAD] * roadbits_to_build);
05:04<peter1138>Hmm, so in an old version, the red flag was placed at the front of the vehicle chain, not before the unit number.
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05:13<peter1138>1.0.0 moves it
05:14<peter1138>But the alignment is good there.
05:15<peter1138>Hmm, and it's fine in master.
05:15<peter1138>Hmm
05:16<peter1138>When interface size is normal.
05:17<peter1138>On double the flag moves down, the text moves up
05:18<Wolf01>So, I made it compile and run, now check what's broken
05:18<Wolf01>Ok, I can't build roads
05:18<Wolf01>:D
05:19<Wolf01>But bridges and tunnels yes
05:20<peter1138>Heh
05:20<peter1138>That solves the issue :D
05:21<Wolf01>I can't start a new game because towns can't build roads, so they can't be found
05:26<peter1138>Nice.
05:28<Wolf01>Oh, found the problem
05:28<Wolf01>Passed a Roadtype instead of a RoadTypeIdentifier
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05:34<TrueBrain>LordAro: yeah ... I did all that work to find out Windows is even more shit than I expected ... Windows 10 Pro can only run Docker containers via Hyper-V with a mini-kernel loaded in there ... takes at least 1 GB of RAM
05:34<TrueBrain>Windows 2016 Server is the only one who can run containers on process level
05:34<TrueBrain>WHY do they just fuck up any oppurtinity to be awesome, and make it gated behind other installations etc
05:34<TrueBrain>UGH
05:34<TrueBrain>so .. I am going to install Windows Server 2016 I guess ..... *facepalm*
05:36<arahael>TrueBrain: "containers on a process level"? Where do I read up on those?
05:37<TrueBrain>hidden in 3 levels of documentation, but I found it by clicking on Compatbility in the Docker for Windows documentation
05:37<arahael>TrueBrain: That's so typical. :( Do you have a link? I don't have windows at home... ;)
05:38*arahael keeps that crap at work.
05:38<peter1138>Hmm, I'm sure we had some code that scaled stuff by gui zoom level, but I can't find it now.
05:38<TrueBrain>its on the web; so you can even find it at home :)
05:38<TrueBrain>and no, I ragequit last night .. :(
05:39<TrueBrain>arahael: just google for windows server 2016 containers
05:41<arahael>*sigh*.
05:41<arahael>TrueBrain: I found a blog that describes it... On technet.microsoft.com. It's "scheduled for migration".
05:41<arahael>Is this 1990 again? :)
05:41<TrueBrain>it seriously is really horrible
05:41<TrueBrain>the whole experience they created around it
05:42<TrueBrain>the one that ticked me off most last night ... then you have docker running ... you make your first docker image ... and it needs to download 6 GB ... which extracts to over 10 GB ...
05:42<TrueBrain>"containers"
05:42<arahael>TrueBrain: I've been getting re-acquanted with ASP.NET lately. It's really really good, for microsoft stuff. But man, their documetnation about it is seriously awful.
05:42<TrueBrain>it completely ruins the whole concept Docker was trying to set
05:42<arahael>Heh, yeah...
05:42<arahael>Docker has become really heavy and bloated in the enterprise.
05:43<arahael>It's purely become a means of versioning your build configurations/setups.
05:44<arahael>It's stuff like this that makes me content with... Literally shipping coal in openttd. :) (Yep: That's my current game: Ship ALL THE COAL, to the one station)
05:44<arahael>I'm discovering that the train network itself is quite a bottleneck.
05:46<Wolf01>Nice, everything works, road build roads, tramway build roads... ehrm
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05:52<andythenorth_>phone irc eh
05:53<andythenorth_>Pikka: 1990: class 90, 89, 91, 92 or mongrel of all 4?
05:54<andythenorth_>5k HP, 125mph
05:58<andythenorth_>or a sybic :p
06:02<Wolf01>Cool! GB(2, 4, p1) works even if it should be GB(p1, 4, 2)!
06:02<andythenorth_>magic
06:03<Wolf01>Patchy patch, need a review
06:05<arahael>Hmm... My trains are frequently being reported as lost...
06:05<LordAro>static inline uint GB(const T x, const uint8 s, const uint8 n) { return (x >> s) & (((T)1U << n) - 1); }
06:05<LordAro>hrm
06:05<arahael>But whenever I look at them, they're forced to simply follow their track, and the track takes them to the varoius stations they need to be.
06:05<LordAro>pretty sure swapping x & n doesn't really work
06:06<Wolf01>It doesn't work, but it doesn't throw errors too
06:06<LordAro>well, why would it :p
06:06<LordAro>as long as p1 is a uint8
06:07<LordAro>could probably do something with T &&x to enforce an l-value
06:08<andythenorth_>wolf what repo are you pushing to now? :)
06:10<Wolf01>peter1138: https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/5ca23e921e64dee02dd058d2169e91ac
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06:10<Wolf01>andythenorth_: noone, I'm working on a local branch of mine
06:10<Pikka>andy, 91 and 92. 89's weird and 90 is just another increment on the 86/87...
06:11<andythenorth_>i might do the 90 because it’s an 86 repaint
06:11<andythenorth_>but eh, slopes :p
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06:11<andythenorth_>i looked at the ukrs 2 90
06:12<andythenorth_>has character
06:12<Pikka>yikes
06:12<andythenorth_>also ukrs 2: very livery :o
06:12<andythenorth_>so much
06:13<andythenorth_>but I could do a fast 92
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08:12<arahael>So, I deleted a town - or at least, destroyed all the roads and buildings. Population went to zero.
08:12<arahael>And then suddenly, it built a road? Do they regrow?
08:13<FLHerne>arahael: It used to be that if you destroyed the central road tile (under the town name) they wouldn't regrow
08:14<arahael>Ah, I see.
08:14<arahael>I've bought those tiles out, so will see if that stops it.
08:15<FLHerne>Possibly now it's recreated when destroyed? If you obstruct it, that should definitely work
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>it always regrew when simply destroyed
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>you have to block it to stop it from regrowing
08:17<andythenorth>o/
08:21<andythenorth>but coffee :|
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08:48<andythenorth>Pikka: class 60 slab side very boring
08:49<andythenorth>hmm no 60 in UKRS2
08:49<andythenorth>92 is slabs though
08:50<Pikka>yes
08:50<andythenorth>have to fake some stuff
08:50<Pikka>I ended up putting a logo on the 86 to break up the side a bit
08:51<andythenorth>you did some fancy liveries on some things too
08:52<andythenorth>some of the sprinters and stuff are diagonal and swooshy
08:52<Pikka>do you have the original sprite sheets, or are you looking at a decompile?
08:53<andythenorth>ukrs2 wiki
08:53<Pikka>oh
08:53<Pikka>I forgot that was a thing
08:54<Pikka>I packed up the sprite sheets to send to Leanden recently, if they're any use to you I can send them over
08:54<andythenorth>nah I have a decompile, it's enough :)
08:54<andythenorth>thanks though
08:55<Pikka>ok :)
08:55<andythenorth>trying to figure out if I can get multiple RL 60 liveries with just 2CC :P
08:56<andythenorth>nvm DB Schenker is ugly anyway at 1x zoom
08:56<Pikka>isn't DB just 1cc red?
08:56<andythenorth>it has a grey stripe
08:56<andythenorth>https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/image/cache/data/products/APC92/APC92_1-1024x576.png
08:57<Pikka>I see
08:57<andythenorth>it's ugly in ottd scale
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09:00<Wolf01>andythenorth: think of a way to revert an upgrade to town roads
09:00<andythenorth>downgrade?
09:00<andythenorth>o_O
09:01<Wolf01>Yes, but no
09:02<andythenorth>pikka railfreight or EWS? :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8992/such_tug.png
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09:06<Pikka>both look good to me :)
09:06<andythenorth>me too, think the EWS sprite is better
09:06<andythenorth>can't make so many realistic liveries with it tho
09:08<andythenorth>dunno if that was ever a goal
09:11<Wolf01>andythenorth: downgrade to a road compatible type? (remove check for electric type but must not be HAUL?)
09:12<andythenorth>Wolf01: I don't know how reliably we can calculate compatibility
09:12<andythenorth>it kind of boggles my brain tbh
09:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause is good for this sort of thing
09:12<andythenorth>or a diagram
09:12<andythenorth>if it's *my* road I should be able to convert anything as I own it
09:12<andythenorth>which players are saying isn't working for them afaict
09:13<andythenorth>town roads, dunno
09:13<Wolf01>There's a thing called powered (compatible) roadtypes, every road but HAUL has ROAD in it, so just check for ROAD
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>i still think you should just check compatibility to ROAD and be done with it
09:17<andythenorth>are there any reasons not to?
09:17<andythenorth>what if ROAD is not provided in the game?
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09:23<Wolf01>That's like saying RAIL, ELRL, MONO, MGLV aren't provided in the game and only provide Hyperloop which isn't compatible with anything
09:25<andythenorth>ok so we can ignore it as a stupid concern?
09:26<andythenorth>"spec says provide ROAD"?
09:27<Wolf01>The only thing which could definitely solve the problem is to add the magic 5th bit Eddi proposed which tells the game that Company 1 converted the road but the road still belong to town... but then Company 2 wouldn't be able to convert it as it was already converted by another company and it's like it's built by the other company.. so why the 5th bit? just allow purchase town roads by conversion
09:28<Wolf01>I'll convert town road, it's mine now, and I can also put one way signs too!
09:29<andythenorth>who can build road stops?
09:29<Wolf01>Everyone
09:29<Wolf01>You can build roadstops on other company roads
09:30<andythenorth>k
09:34<Pikka>hmmm
09:34<Pikka>remove all ownership of roads, anyone can modify anything. problem solved. :)
09:35<andythenorth>remove NRT :)
09:35<andythenorth>the whole concept is ridiculous tbh
09:35<andythenorth>it's almost impossible to explain
09:38<Wolf01>That could be an interesting suggestion
09:38<Wolf01>Only keep the station ownership and let roads public
09:38<Wolf01>8 bits freed on map array
09:40<andythenorth>are water tiles owned?
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09:41<Wolf01>Only if you build them
09:41<Wolf01>Like canals, aqueducts, locks
09:42<TrueBrain>tnx _dp_ :)
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09:59<andythenorth>did a class 70-ish thing http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8993/toaster.png
09:59<andythenorth>'ish' is much better for trains than 'is'
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10:01<_dp_>TrueBrain, yw, thx for merging :)
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10:13<Pikka>tres ish
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10:19<Wolf01>And again the proof people can't read
10:20<Wolf01>(me too)
10:23<andythenorth>Wolf01: acs121 makes me want to quit TBH
10:23<andythenorth>driven out by a 12 year old
10:23<Wolf01>It makes me doing the opposite of what he says
10:23<andythenorth>me too
10:23<andythenorth>I am thinking more restrictions
10:24<andythenorth>endlewss childish behaviour => I want to act like a baby
10:24<Wolf01>But yes, I feel a bit restricted about not being able to convert ELRD to ROAD
10:24<andythenorth>even in town?
10:24<Wolf01>Yes
10:24<andythenorth>hmm ok
10:24<Wolf01>Yes, only in town
10:24<Wolf01>If you make a new road you can convert it back and forth
10:25<TrueBrain>Alberth: your reply on tt-forums made me giggle out loud :D
10:25<TrueBrain>I am going to remember that example :D
10:25<@Alberth>:D
10:25<Wolf01>:D
10:25<andythenorth>is he/she actually just reporting a bug?
10:26<andythenorth>I don't have an NRT build right
10:26<andythenorth>now
10:26<andythenorth>I could fix that but...eh :P
10:26<Wolf01>No, there is no bug, it's working as we intended
10:26<Wolf01>But we were too much restrictive
10:26<andythenorth>what is this 'convert own roads' thing though
10:28<Wolf01>So maybe we could get back on that and allow converting ROAD<->ELRD in towns, with some interpretations of "maybe", "converting", "get back", and "we"
10:28<andythenorth>words
10:28<andythenorth>many
10:29<andythenorth>time pass quick drawing pixels :P
10:29<andythenorth>I thought it was 14.00 :P
10:31<andythenorth>hmm
10:31<andythenorth>some of my sprites are very chibi / lego-ised
10:31<andythenorth>others are less
10:36<Wolf01>https://i0.wp.com/farm1.staticflickr.com/804/27622943538_cf106442eb_z.jpg?resize=625%2C417&ssl=1 I need to start doing something like this... maybe still in Macross/Robotech theme
10:37<andythenorth>nice
10:41<frosch123>what? markdown uses trailing whitespace for formatting? :o
10:41<peter1138>It what?
10:41<frosch123>https://github.com/adam-p/markdown-here/wiki/Markdown-Cheatsheet#lists
10:41<Wolf01>Yes, indentation mean different things
10:42<andythenorth>md and rst are bonkers
10:42<andythenorth>but eh
10:43<peter1138>Whatever happened to the lego base sets? heh
10:43<andythenorth>html is too hard for people so we have to have weird 'simpler' markup languages
10:43<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1205734#p1205734 do I need to explain it in other words?
10:43<Wolf01>I even tried it to be sure
10:44<peter1138>HEh
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10:46<andythenorth>I just explained to child #1 how to turn off wagon speed limits
10:46<andythenorth>apparently that's "epic"
10:46<Wolf01>Did you show him the fantastic world of grf parameters?
10:47<Wolf01>Also peter1138 gave up and started playing simutrans
10:48<andythenorth>because of wagon speed limits? :o
10:49<peter1138>Why... why are there people walking on the roads?
10:49<Wolf01>Because... why not?
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10:53<peter1138>Ooh, a motor bike.
10:53<peter1138>It was moving sideways, but still.
10:55<Wolf01>Getting inspiration?
10:56<andythenorth>inspired for new bugs to add? o_O
11:00<andythenorth>thinner or fatter ugly train? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8994/toaster_2.png
11:00<andythenorth>IRL http://www.oliviastrains.com/wp-content/files_mf/14799854331471801991315853.JPG
11:16<Pikka>fatter, I think
11:18<andythenorth>too ugly thin?
11:19<andythenorth>tried a fancy one http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8995/toaster_3.png
11:19<andythenorth>don't like diagonal liveries
11:20<andythenorth>should have just done a shed :P
11:20<TrueBrain>and my Windows pain continues ... not all versions of Windows Server 2016 support Containers ... wwwwwwwwaaattthhhhh???!!!
11:21<Pikka>it's an ugly loco in general... maybe it will grow on me
11:21<Pikka>I've got it on my tracking table, so we'll see
11:22<andythenorth>I want something chunky
11:22<andythenorth>the rest of 2020 is all vectrons and traxx and things
11:22<andythenorth>stupid bits of cheese
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11:22<+glx>TrueBrain: usually the most expensive one is ok
11:24<peter1138>Hmm, I suppose I should be a Pikka-Patreon :p
11:25<peter1138>And... my primary monitor is playing up.
11:25<peter1138>Ah, now it appears.
11:26<LordAro>TrueBrain: oh no
11:32<andythenorth>a bit more ish http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8996/toaster_4.png
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11:33<andythenorth>not sure it's massively better than http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8994/toaster_2.png
11:35<peter1138>Play at 1x, they all look good.
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11:41<Wolf01>Agreed :P
11:41<Wolf01>andythenorth: replied
11:46<@Alberth>peter-wolf :p
11:47<@Alberth>"I already have a patch for that"
11:47<andythenorth>there's a frog in it too
11:47<andythenorth>oh no frog in peter and the wold
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11:47<Wolf01>Alberth: with the difference the patch is published and "works"
11:48<andythenorth>fixed it http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8997/toaster_5.png
11:48<andythenorth>I remembered some american engine sprites with same style
11:48<andythenorth>even same RL manufacturer :P
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11:48<andythenorth>Pikka: ^^^
11:48<Wolf01>andythenorth: when could I play with it? I see hype trains everywhere
11:49<Pikka>looks good :D
11:49<@Alberth>fair enough :)
11:49<andythenorth>you can play with 54 trains complete of 183 (RAIL)
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11:52<Wolf01>I want it complete
11:52<Wolf01>:D
11:52<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html
11:52<andythenorth>working on it :P
11:52<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/
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12:02<Pikka>I guess that's a sign...
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12:22<Wolf01>So, the real questio is: who stopped to exist? We or you?
12:22<supermop>me
12:25<peter1138>Oh, I lost the link for Wolf01's project file that makes things better
12:26<Wolf01>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ps8ymayxf
12:27<peter1138>What did it need to be called and where does it go?
12:28<peter1138>(Thanks)
12:28<Wolf01>Like the project file but with .user added as second extension, same folder of the project
12:35<peter1138>Yay, works, thanks.
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13:00<Wolf01>andythenorth: wallyweb suggested one thing I really like: make downgrade cost rating, downgrade is a removal, right?
13:01<andythenorth>intriguing
13:01<Wolf01>You can downgrade as long as the town is happy
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13:03<Wolf01>Ha, I just purchased 6 baseplates 48x48 at 9€/piece
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13:08<peter1138>Ouch.
13:09<Wolf01>It's half of the price!
13:09<+glx>ah
13:09<Wolf01>And out of stock too
13:10<Wolf01>Tomorrow you'll find them on bricklink at 30€/piece
13:10<andythenorth>:P
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13:16<Wolf01>Anyway, I should finish that RoadTypeIdentifier patch
13:20<__ln__>should this be possible in ottd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassel_RegioTram
13:23<TrueBrain>wauw .... I have a container running as a linux container does on Windows ...... *shocked*
13:23<TrueBrain>now I have to download 10 GB of image ...
13:23<TrueBrain>in fact, the docker image is bigger than my installation .... :o
13:23<Wolf01>Oh, TrueBrain, another one for you: https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning
13:24<TrueBrain>so much Docker .. and nobody prepared me for the horror called Windows Docker :P
13:25<Wolf01>peter1138: should I also prepare all the map array accessors for rtid or keep using the roadtype for now?
13:26<andythenorth>meh class 60 sprite sucks
13:29<andythenorth>V453000: yo
13:38<LordAro>TrueBrain: wheee
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13:51<peter1138>I dunno, separate?
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13:52<peter1138>map array accessors presumably change map structure so
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13:52<Wolf01>Yes, then later
13:53<ZehMatt>is c++14 ok in OpenTTD?
13:53<Wolf01>I need to find out why MergeRoadType now makes it build tram instead of road and vice versa
13:53<LordAro>ZehMatt: no(t yet)
13:54<ZehMatt>;(
13:54<ZehMatt>11?
13:54<LordAro>(will be once new compile farm is complete)
13:54<LordAro>nope
13:54<ZehMatt>so what can i use
13:54<LordAro>03
13:54<ZehMatt>;(
13:55<LordAro>yyp
13:55<LordAro>yup*
13:55<ZehMatt>unique_ptr is a blessing
13:55<Wolf01>Ok, is the UnpackIfValid
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13:56<Wolf01>this->basetype = (RoadType)GB(data, 0, 1); mmmh
13:56<LordAro>ZehMatt: well you could use auto_ptr!
13:57<LordAro>(don't)
13:57<ZehMatt>:p
13:57<ZehMatt>lots of refactor potential
14:02<LordAro>definitely
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14:28<TrueBrain>LordAro: I appreciated the link to a very old issue, but what does it contribute? :)
14:29<LordAro>not a lot
14:30<LordAro>only that it was duplicated
14:30<LordAro>and closed by andythenorth
14:30<LordAro>:p
14:30<TrueBrain>so you basically just added noise to an issue? :D
14:30<LordAro>yup
14:30<TrueBrain>I rather have you fix the issue :P
14:31<LordAro>:p
14:31<LordAro>saves having that small amount of discussion again, at least
14:32<TrueBrain>well, I am more scared of the inverse .. people starting the discussion again :P
14:32<LordAro>well no one did determine which was the correct solution
14:32<TrueBrain>I did in the new ticket :)
14:33<TrueBrain>just be careful we don't dwell in the past too much; we tend to get stuck :D
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14:39<Wolf01>Why the fuck the UI passes a RoadTypes in p1/2 when it's building a single RoadType?
14:41<_dp_>Let's keep the pace :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6745
14:48<peter1138>Not need on the word "everyone"
14:48<peter1138>"all"
14:49<peter1138>er..
14:49<peter1138>s/need/keen/
14:54<TrueBrain>frosch123: https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD-MS2-AS/blob/master/docs/overview.md
14:54<TrueBrain>I stole some things from you :P
14:55<Wolf01>Mmmh, this patch might be difficult without changing even the command calls on the UI
14:56<Wolf01>And changing it on the UI means to change half of the UI code
15:02<frosch123>TrueBrain: i should have legally protected the file name and document structure :)
15:02<TrueBrain>YES! :P
15:02<TrueBrain>I liked what I saw, so meh :)
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15:02<Wolf01>Authenitcation <-
15:03<TrueBrain>there are many more spelling errors, I promise you :)
15:03<Wolf01>:P
15:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: no passworded companies in LAN games?
15:04<Wolf01>You can always punch your friends in the nose if they join your company and griefs :P
15:05<frosch123>do you have no siblings?
15:05<Wolf01>Ahahaah, only a sister, and doesn't play OTTD
15:05<frosch123>you mean she doesn't tell you :p
15:07<TrueBrain>frosch123: fair point; in that case I am going to suggest removing the password for a pin
15:07<TrueBrain>so something like in the Company window you say: Put a PIN on it, and it tells you the PIN
15:07<TrueBrain>this you can give to "friends"
15:07<TrueBrain>but I would really really like to remove any hinting towards "passwords" from the game :)
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15:08<LordAro>how much would break if NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH were bumped up to 31 (chars)?
15:08<LordAro>given it seems to be causing some warnings right now
15:09<TrueBrain>means you need to bump the protocl version I think
15:09<TrueBrain>hasnt been done in years I guess? :P
15:09<LordAro>mm, pretty awkward
15:10<LordAro>not since 2013, assuming that's what NETWORK_MASTER_SERVER_VERSION is
15:11<TrueBrain>that is the protocol of the MS
15:11<TrueBrain>you also have the protocol of client <-> server
15:11<TrueBrain>I believe they also handshake the version?
15:11<frosch123>LordAro: if you break that, please also break the gamelog :) it has a similar issue
15:12<LordAro>frosch123: yeah, uses same constant
15:12<LordAro>that's how i found it :)
15:12<TrueBrain>LordAro: possibly better to help me replace MS :P
15:13<LordAro>oh noh
15:13<Wolf01>https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/5ca23e921e64dee02dd058d2169e91ac a step forward... building road stations switches ROAD with TRAM for reasons I tried to fix but needs a lot of work... or a better coder touch
15:17<LordAro>ah, looks like NETWORK_GAME_INFO_VERSION
15:23<LordAro>which was last changed... https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/32db875d978fd59c6dc941c61d331d4a1b20a24a
15:23<LordAro>quite some time ago
15:23<peter1138>:-)
15:26<peter1138>https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/5ca23e921e64dee02dd058d2169e91ac#file-nrt_roadtypeidentifiers-patch-L1071
15:26<peter1138>Strange comment change
15:26<peter1138>"if the current tile is a normal"
15:28<_dp_>some tiles are such weirdos
15:29<frosch123>we should switch the platform, github has no :p emoticon
15:34<Wolf01>peter1138: ahah, I just copied the old code :P
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15:39<Wolf01>Anyway, I used the UnpackIdValid function which is not for extracting from RoadTypes but from a packed RoadTypeIdentifier, I tried to change it a bit without success, not sure if this is the right way and instead I should change all the command calls in the UI to pass the right value
15:57<Wolf01>peter1138: were you asking for pedestrians? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=82853
16:02<peter1138>o_O
16:04<__ln__>those pedestrians would never fit in those houses or cars
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i need a station with a split platform...
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>so 2 short trains can stop at one long platform...
16:05<peter1138>peds shoulkd be like MB's newstations people
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16:12<andythenorth>done up a 59 innit http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8998/59_horse.png
16:12<andythenorth>http://www.mainlinediesels.net/images/basic/gm_8780294_01.jpg
16:14<V453000>the top black is too dark imo
16:14<V453000>otherwise nice :)
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16:19<andythenorth>oh it's V453000 :)
16:19<andythenorth>sprite was this http://www.railuk.info/gallery/thumbnail4.php?src=../gallery/diesel/tops/60/60065_DSCF6210_1068.jpg
16:19<andythenorth>but it has no interesting shapes
16:19<andythenorth>just a box
16:20<V453000>It just felt weird to me when I saw the black on the top be darker than the black of the wheel
16:20<andythenorth>yeah I lighten it
16:21<V453000>:P
16:21<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/795f33131a5d/entry/src/graphics/pony/tug.png
16:21<andythenorth>I had a grey bit previously but looked weird
16:22<V453000>that feels better to be tbh
16:22<V453000>to me*
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16:24<andythenorth>k
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16:42<peter1138>Hmm, wonder how to fix the dodgy mouse cursor in Windows.
16:42<peter1138>Maybe we can switch to a HW cursor.
16:43<peter1138>Window moving is ugly too.
16:45<Wolf01>'night
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16:47<OutragedMetro>Can I get some help with the openTTD server? I got 2 instances I would like to run on one machine now I am trying to use the -D -c "config file" thing in shortcut but its not loading the second cfg am I doing something wrong?
16:48<OutragedMetro>"C:\Program Files\OpenTTD2\openttd.exe" -D -c "1.cfg"
16:49<LordAro>where is 1.cfg?
16:49<LordAro>and where is starting location?
16:49<OutragedMetro>1.cfg I have tried putting in the game main folder and documents folder
16:50<LordAro>you'll either want to set the starting location in the shortcut, or use the full path of the config file
16:50<peter1138>I think it would need to be in your current directory, or supply the full path.
16:50<peter1138>heh
16:50<LordAro>peter1138: ^5
16:50<peter1138>Hmm, DirectX...
16:50<OutragedMetro> -c "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\OpenTTD\1.cfg
16:51<OutragedMetro>I have tried that as well
16:51<OutragedMetro> -c "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\OpenTTD\1.cfg"
16:51<LordAro>...are you running as Administrator?
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16:51<peter1138>Many do. Ew.
16:51<ST2>well, while I tested another server controller software on windows (and was a server machine) - Windows acts always weird on there
16:51<LordAro>(unrelated to OTTD, but don't do that)
16:51<OutragedMetro>I am running it on a dedicated server
16:51<OutragedMetro>yes I am...
16:52<OutragedMetro>its a windows server
16:52<ST2>and I'll always recommend dnt use or not even have a \Documents\OpenTTD\*cfg file
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16:53<LordAro>OutragedMetro: even less reason to use *the* Administrator account
16:53<LordAro>it's a huge security risk
16:53<ST2>I second thet (LordAro's)
16:53<LordAro>but regardless, what you've specified on the commandline *should* work
16:53<OutragedMetro>But how might I fix the config issue?
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16:54<LordAro>screenshot of the shortcut properties?
16:54<OutragedMetro>its not working though no matter what I try
16:54<ST2>OutragedMetro: 1st: put that game and proccesses running on other user
16:55<ST2>that not Administratir
16:55<ST2>that would be the start
16:55<OutragedMetro>it shouldn't prevent the CFG issue though ST2 and uploading screens
16:56<ST2>as told by LordAro, it's by security reasons
16:56<OutragedMetro>https://imgur.com/a/CVYOHur
16:56<OutragedMetro>I get that but still should not prevent cfg from running
16:57<LordAro>try running that from the cmd, any messages?
16:57<ST2>well, I dnt see a .cfg pointer
16:58<OutragedMetro>running the cfg from command line?
16:58<LordAro>run the whole "Target"
16:58<LordAro>might spit out an error
17:00<ST2>LordAro: in Windows it's easier to create shortcuts - and errors still come out on it
17:00<OutragedMetro>Running from CMD did nothing
17:00<OutragedMetro>still noththing
17:00<OutragedMetro>*nothing
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17:02<OutragedMetro>What I am trying to do is have one instance Temperate and the other sub-arctic
17:03<LordAro>without actually having a windows install in front of me, i can't help any further
17:04<LordAro>(well, technically i do have a windows install in front of me, but i'm using linux right now :) )
17:04<ST2>OutragedMetro: when noe works, make different OpenTTD game forlders, each one with it's own cfg file
17:04<ST2>none*
17:04<OutragedMetro>I tried that to ST2 but it loaded the my docs
17:04<OutragedMetro>config
17:04<ST2>delete those
17:05<ST2>those came from the the instalation, and you run the game as Administrator, with GUI
17:08<ST2>OutragedMetro: copy the OpenTTD instalation folder, where is the openttd.exe
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17:09<ST2>OutragedMetro: make an empty openttd.cfg file there
17:09<ST2>run that exe
17:09<ST2>and edit settings
17:10<OutragedMetro>so put an empty config in the folders? or in my doccuments?
17:10<ST2>I suggest to make a 1st run, only to openttd.cfg file be filled with default settings
17:11<OutragedMetro>I did that and got one
17:11<ST2>and after, edit openttd.cfg with settings you want
17:11<OutragedMetro>it works to get the 1st instance up but not the second
17:11<ST2>[22:10:48] <OutragedMetro> so put an empty config in the folders? or in my doccuments? << read above
17:12<ST2>and get rid of my doccuments stuff
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17:12<OutragedMetro>I got rid of them completely
17:13<ST2>so, make an empty openttd.cfg file where opentd.exe is
17:14<ST2>btw, can you see file extentions?
17:14<ST2>cfg, txt, exe... and so on?
17:15<Thedarkb-X40>I'm fairly sure UFOs are broken.
17:15<OutragedMetro>found my issue its arctic not sub-arctic in the config
17:15<ST2>well, climates are simple as this: from 0 to 3
17:16<ST2>there's no need for that words
17:19<peter1138>Urgh, video issues even worse with SDL on Windows :p
17:20<Thedarkb-X40>OpenTTD runs well on old processors but it needs a fair bit of RAM.
17:22<ST2>peter1138: if server started properly as dedicated, even if on a windows machine, will rul without issues
17:22<peter1138>Pardon?
17:22<ST2>what I said ^^
17:23<peter1138>I don't know what you are talking about.
17:23<ST2>peter1138: we, at BTPro and n-ice have a screenshot thing (can be see on BTPro page) - that it's kinda tricky
17:24<Thedarkb-X40>peter1138, Just talking to myself.
17:24<+glx>peter1138: just use GDI, SDL is a wrapper around it anyway
17:25<peter1138>glx, SDL is meant to use directx :S
17:25<+glx>dunno it it does it for 2D stuff
17:26<peter1138>glx, anyway, with the windows drivers, I get glitching :(
17:26<peter1138>temporal glitching
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17:27<ST2>peter1138: glitching where?
17:27<peter1138>Probably since Windows 8, I guess.
17:27<peter1138>Since the display model changed.
17:28<ST2>peter1138: if I may ask, what OS you use?
17:28<peter1138>Windows 10.
17:28<ST2>ok, I have W10 too
17:28<peter1138>Amazing.
17:29<ST2>on a couple computers I use
17:29<ST2>and I have no issues or, what you say... glitching's
17:30<ST2>and neither on the W7 computers I have
17:30<peter1138>Basically the screen updates before OpenTTD has finished updating the screen, as it were.
17:30<peter1138>So for instance the mouse cursor partially disappears before it's fully drawn.
17:30<ST2>isn't it a software issue?
17:30<peter1138>Same with Windows.
17:31<peter1138>There's no vsync in involved, so it's inevitable.
17:32<ST2>peter1138: I'm on a desktop now. I have a laptop, W10 too, when going to pub
17:32<ST2>I use W7 at work, and all is fine
17:32<peter1138>That's great.
17:33<peter1138>But not really relevant.
17:33<ST2>well peter1138, what's the real problem?
17:33<peter1138>22:30 < peter1138> Basically the screen updates before OpenTTD has finished updating the screen, as it were.
17:34<peter1138>22:30 < peter1138> So for instance the mouse cursor partially disappears before it's fully drawn.
17:34<ST2>and you use W10?
17:34<peter1138>Really.
17:34<ST2>and that happens?
17:35<+michi_cc>peter1138: Whatever it is, it has to be related to the hardware/software you're running. I don't see this effect, so it can't be a universal W10 problem.
17:35<LordAro>is this with sdl on windows?
17:35<peter1138>LordAro, no, GDI.
17:35<LordAro>ah right
17:35<LordAro>carry on
17:35<peter1138>Although SDL is worse, but we don't support that out of the box.
17:36<ST2>as michi_cc said: it's a specific issue
17:36<peter1138>michi_cc, i'm sure it's not universal. I don't think running nvidia gpu drivers is particularly uncommon though.
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17:37<ST2>peter1138: I have nvidia gpu drivers, that updates each week or so
17:37<LordAro>i'll have to check when i'm next on windows
17:37<ST2>and I dnt have problems with it
17:37<andythenorth>ok we won't fix anything then :P
17:38<andythenorth>simples
17:38<ST2>andythenorth: fix FIRS, please ^^
17:38<andythenorth>such FIRS
17:38<andythenorth>what broke now?
17:38<ST2>players brains got broke xD
17:40<ST2>I kept our servers with FIRS 3.0.5, because other releases broke something - well, you got the complaints, I bet xD
17:40<peter1138>michi_cc, it's nothing changed in OpenTTD either. 0.4.5 has the same issue for me.
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17:41<peter1138>michi_cc, basically we need a modern driver that uses compositing and surfaces ;)
17:41<peter1138>opengl etc
17:46<LordAro>yeah, if only someone had done that
17:47<LordAro>(also, lol "opengl" "modern")
17:47<peter1138>IKR
17:47<peter1138>Anyway, I can make the game beautiful again by forcing it to redraw the whole screen every time.
17:48<peter1138>But... urgh.
17:48<ST2>has anyone asked peter1138's settings?
17:48<peter1138>At least I have enough CPU for that ;)
17:48<ST2>maybe are special ^^
17:49<peter1138>Ah shit, I forgot the "make_peter1138s_graphics_shit = true" setting in openttd.cfg
17:50<andythenorth>some platforms the graphics are fucked
17:50<andythenorth>more than they used to be afaict
17:50<andythenorth>I keep seeing it denied
17:50<andythenorth>but eh
17:50<andythenorth>also 'buy a better computer' isn't helping
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17:56<peter1138>i7-8700K isn't sloggish ;)
17:57<andythenorth>when I buy new computers, ottd tends to get worse
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17:58<ST2>andythenorth: may I add, that the use of different FIRS economies with the same newgrf's (basically Iron Horse and RoadHog) can lead to many players go wild
17:59<andythenorth>wait for Sam :P
17:59<ST2>I love you man :D
18:00<andythenorth>excitement will be off the scale
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18:01<ST2>well, if you dnt mind... fix FIRS first ^^
18:01<ST2>but on the rest, yup, as you said :)
18:01<andythenorth>the only thing broken in 3.0.7 afaik is the version number
18:03<ST2>[23:01:40] <andythenorth> the only thing broken in 3.0.7 afaik is the version number <<-- yeah, and it's enough that when we (BTPro) advertised the FIRS update to it, players complained
18:03<ST2>that's why all now back to 3.0.5
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18:04<ST2>in other words, no onw is using now FIRS 3.0.7
18:05<ST2>they're using that weird numbering
18:05<ST2>oh well, just saying ^^
18:05<andythenorth>oops
18:05<andythenorth>think I just broke the FIRS repo
18:06<andythenorth>yup
18:06<andythenorth>nvm, no FIRS release tonight
18:06<ST2>andythenorth: no worries ^^
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18:11<andythenorth>ok fixed that
18:11<andythenorth>pushed 3.0.8 FIRS
18:11<ST2>andythenorth: Thank you very much :)
18:11<andythenorth>np
18:14<+glx> <peter1138> i7-8700K isn't sloggish ;) <-- ah your cpu is too fast :)
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18:15<+glx>and drawing is threaded
18:18<andythenorth>when I got an i7 ottd drawing tanked
18:18<andythenorth>ffwd doesn't
18:18<LordAro>:(
18:19<+glx>peter1138: tried no_thread or no_threads driver param ?
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 23 00:00:41 2018