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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-23

---Logopened Mon Apr 23 00:00:41 2018
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02:02<andythenorth>hi
02:06<gooble>how are you?
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02:09<peter1138>Erm
02:11<peter1138>So this graphical issue I have, is there in master, but not too bad.
02:11<peter1138>But I was trying this de-couple patch, and it's much worse there, precisely because it updates more often and therefore there's less time for the screen to "settle"
02:13<andythenorth>:|
02:15<gooble>can you make a network tycoon mod?
02:15<gooble>you could probablly sell it on steam
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02:22<andythenorth>Pikka: I sacked the 60
02:22<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8998/59_horse.png
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03:14<Pikka>hmmm
03:15<Pikka>I did the opposite, moved the 59 back to the 66 to make room for the 60 :P but we'll see what happens when I get there
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03:42<V453000>morening
03:42<V453000>how much is more?
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03:58<andythenorth>the 60 is dull :)
03:58<andythenorth>Pikka: so shall I do a 57, or re-engine a 50?
03:58<andythenorth>Thunder Hoover
04:01<andythenorth>or http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/userpix/300_FGWWestern_syp_1.jpg
04:02<V453000>dam
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05:00<gooble>this game isnt even 3d
05:02<LordAro>it took you 3 hours to work that out?
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05:08<V453000>it looks perfectly 3D to me
05:08<V453000>what are you talking about
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05:16<Pikka>andythenorth, ew, western :)
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05:24<andythenorth>ew :P
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05:53<andythenorth>Pikka: so shall I just crack and draw a 57 then? :P
05:53<andythenorth>it's getting quite realisms, this set
05:58<andythenorth>I could do a 67, but...ayuck
05:59<peter1138>Do a group livery
05:59<peter1138>Oh, that's my task.
06:00<andythenorth>is it fun?
06:00<peter1138>Great.
06:08<SpComb>do an unrealistic toyland set instead
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>do a realistic toyland set!
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06:12<V453000>is unrealistic temperate set an option?
06:18<andythenorth>yes
06:19<andythenorth>meh, just boring http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_10_2012/post-11279-0-51833700-1349624460.jpg
06:19<andythenorth>and this one is ugly https://www.hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/3/r3481.jpg
06:22<andythenorth>at least this one has big grilles and stuff https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/No.50007_Sir_Edward_Elgar_%28Class_50%29_%286157119598%29.jpg
06:24<gooble>who needs driverless cars when you have one of these?
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06:58<andythenorth>did a train http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8999/bird_horse.png
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07:14<FLHerne>What's the stubby centre-pantograph loco?
07:15<FLHerne>White top stripe on the IC stock looks funny to me
07:15<FLHerne>(but I guess it would blend into the roof otherwise?)
07:24<andythenorth>the stubby loco is fake
07:24<andythenorth>it's a class 73/74 blend
07:25<andythenorth>I wonder about losing the realistic intercity livery
07:25<andythenorth>all the others are 2CC
07:25<andythenorth>there are no IC engines to match, I tried, it looks weird
07:26<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8977/horse_but_liveries_2.png
07:26<andythenorth>the grey lacks definition too
08:08<Pikka>yarp
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08:19<peter1138>It's not 32bpp 2x, is it, see.
08:20<andythenorth>nope
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08:36*andythenorth sacks not-quite-Intercity livery
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09:01*peter1138 sacks andythenorth
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09:04<andythenorth>lawks
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09:25<peter1138>Where's your Patreon then?
09:28<andythenorth>dunno if I'd like it
09:28<andythenorth>it would be like having customers
09:28<andythenorth>eh
09:30<SpComb>it does hurt a little to see patreon updates trying to explain why they haven't worked on some specific patreon project
09:30<SpComb>although that's someone explicitly trying to go full-time on patreon donations
09:33<andythenorth>things fall apart
09:53<V453000>customers = enemy
09:55<andythenorth>not proper customers
09:55<andythenorth>under-paying customers = enemy
09:58<V453000>that's a fair point
09:58<V453000>but not having any "customers" is freeing
10:00<SpComb>is not having any money also freeing? :P
10:00<andythenorth>I have 1 customer :P
10:00<andythenorth>for OTTD
10:00<SpComb>yourself?
10:00<andythenorth>yair
10:01<andythenorth>hmm will this pixel trickery work
10:02<andythenorth>nope
10:02<andythenorth>crashed OTTD
10:03<V453000>andythenorth: ? https://youtu.be/1Rpbzp303eo
10:04<andythenorth>oh dear
10:04*andythenorth now doing pixel evil
10:05<andythenorth>based on knowing when purple looks like black
10:05<V453000>:0
10:05<V453000>that does sound pretty evil
10:05<V453000>I'm trying to figure out the maximum box size for non-glitching trains
10:06<andythenorth>32
10:06<V453000>is it?
10:06*andythenorth has no idea
10:06<andythenorth>sorry
10:06<V453000>well the thing is that the diagonal height matters
10:07<V453000>specifically talking about the glitch in tunnels when the vehicle is so large that you can see it on the tile behind the tunnel before it disappears in the tunnel
10:07<V453000>because I have this design https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=194423
10:07<V453000>and I think it's basically at the maximum of not clipping
10:08<V453000>the issue is, that since the shape is skewed like /\, I'm not sure how do I get a long connecting train out of this
10:08<V453000>like a passenger/slug train which looks interconnected
10:08<V453000>same time though I kind of like this /\ thing
10:09<V453000>but I might have to abandon the idea of interconnected trains for it ... unless the interconnecting part is drawn on the front, which let's see how it looks but :0
10:10<andythenorth>you mean overlapping interconnected?
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10:11<V453000>interconnecting like a slug http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6951/NUTS_EXPRESS.png
10:11<V453000>simply wagons which fit into each other pefectly in the length so they form a long thing
10:11<V453000>typically used in passenger wagons
10:13<V453000>I guess hiding the part into the other sprite at the front could work
10:13<V453000>but :0
10:22<V453000>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9000/test1.png
10:22<V453000>iz plan
10:23<V453000>curves might look wtf but they already do ...
10:23<V453000>Can you think of something that the orange part would glitch with?
10:24<andythenorth>tunnels I guess
10:24<andythenorth>BIAB :)
10:25<V453000>hm
10:25<V453000>will just have to test
10:25<V453000>cya
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10:38<RAMOSPE>HI
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11:00<supermop_work>yo
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11:15<peter1138>zomg, factorio went up in price
11:20<andythenorth>V isn't cheap eh
11:23<peter1138>innit
11:24<andythenorth>need some 2CC for this badger http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9001/bird_horse_2.png
11:24<andythenorth>stripes or something http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8999/bird_horse.png
11:26<peter1138>Can I play it yet?
11:26<andythenorth>if you like – view yes
11:26<andythenorth>it lacks \ / views
11:26<peter1138>o_O
11:26<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/
11:27<andythenorth>I've played a few games with it
11:27<peter1138>I guess I need to implement those diagonal stations again.
11:27<andythenorth>:P
11:27<andythenorth>I am relying on not seeing those for loading states :P
11:28<andythenorth>don't have to draw them properly in \ /
11:28<peter1138>Diagonal bridges...
11:28<andythenorth>FWIW, the aggregate of forum and wiki and FS suggestions
11:28<andythenorth>is the same as what one 8 year old can generate in a weekend
11:28<andythenorth>so we don't need player suggestions
11:28<andythenorth>just an 8 year old
11:29<andythenorth>he's playing iOS Transport Tycoon now
11:31<andythenorth>'mostly OpenTTD is better'
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12:37<peter1138>Hi
12:37<peter1138>Where was I?
12:40<andythenorth>made a film about that once
12:40<andythenorth>drove a car into the sea
12:40<andythenorth>interruptions
12:40<peter1138>Oh.
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>like those TV educational safety programs?
12:41<andythenorth>not quite
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>or... staplerfahrer klaus... :p
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12:51<Wolf01>o/
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12:51<andythenorth>hey Wolf01
12:51<Wolf01>Hey andythenorth
12:52<Thedarkb>I forgot to disable UFOs on my server.
12:52<Thedarkb>I have paid the price.
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12:59<Thedarkb>They just won't stop landing on my line and my line only.
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>they have a tendency to land on the same spot
13:00<Wolf01>It's hardcoded since TTDX, they already knew you back in 1996
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13:00<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically just terrible randomness
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>think of it like this: ask 10 people to think of a random number, and then you try to guess one of the chosen numbers: you pick a random number and count down from there until you guess one of the thought numbers. you're almost certainly hitting the person first who thought of the largest number
13:04<Wolf01>4, red, hammer
13:16<Wolf01>https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1347284725 <- Eddi
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13:17<andythenorth>black roof or CC roof? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9002/bird_horse_3.png
13:17<andythenorth>V453000 ^ also others
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13:18<Eddi|zuHause>difficult to say without world context
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13:19<frosch123>too much cc makes everything look the same
13:23<+glx>too many pixels, I'd prefer a 1x image :)
13:23<andythenorth>browser zoom? o_O
13:24<+glx>black roof looks nice
13:25<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: for a moment I got really excited, thinking it's for C:S
13:26<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: good point about context http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9003/bird_horse_buy_menu.png
13:27<andythenorth>both CC the same, the engine is Thunderbird. It replaces Wizzo
13:27<andythenorth>I try to maintain continuity of colour or shape for engines in the same tech tree
13:28<andythenorth>CC is shinier, but black is the better sprite
13:30*andythenorth tries Mauve and Cream as CC
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14:09<peter1138>Erm
14:15<andythenorth>RGB CC?
14:15<andythenorth>o_O
14:18<vinnie>hello, a question about firs. Awesome grf btw
14:18<vinnie>do primary industries grow like the default set with a random interval, or is the gung-ho the maximum value?
14:19<andythenorth>they don't currently grow without supplies
14:20<andythenorth>v4 _might_ grow like default *in addition* to supplies, but no promises
14:21<vinnie>thank you
14:21<vinnie>if been waiting ingame but i should just connect more then
14:21<andythenorth>yes
14:22<andythenorth>I've tried variations on supplies, but current version seems best
14:22<andythenorth>but sometimes I want random changes as well
14:23<vinnie>no its ok
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14:35<andythenorth>now I have to draw Euro Cheese
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14:53<peter1138>Take Five is impossible to play.
14:54<peter1138>This window resizing lark is winding me up.
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15:01<andythenorth>piece of cheese #1 https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/10193583345_1c9280e311_b.jpg
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15:24<Wolf01>Wow, so new that there's still the plastic cover on the bumpers
15:26<peter1138>Hrmm, this window won't resize ;S
15:29<peter1138>Wolf01, how's the patches :D
15:29<Wolf01>Very WIP
15:30<peter1138>*nod*
15:31<Wolf01>I need to change the command calls from the UI because it passes the wrong values
15:41<peter1138>hm
15:41<peter1138>or convert them in the commands?
15:41<Wolf01>I tried but failed badly
15:42<Wolf01>(UI)RoadType->RoadTypes->(CMD)RoadType->RoadTypeIdentifier...
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15:43<Wolf01>I had problems converting back to RoadType
15:43<Wolf01>Dunno why... it's a flag, 1 or 10... returns always TRAM
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15:45<Wolf01>And only on road stations! In the other places it seem to work
15:52<V453000>andythenorth: I have to say I really like if not all of the sprite is CC
15:53<peter1138>Wolf01, i'm guessing a silly mistake, if that's the only place that's wrong.
15:54<peter1138>point me at the code again?
16:07<Wolf01>https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/5ca23e921e64dee02dd058d2169e91ac#file-nrt_roadtypeidentifiers-patch-L1016
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16:24<andythenorth>V453000: what other colours are valid? o_O
16:24<andythenorth>I keep trying white, because Pikka does, but doesn't work for me
16:25<V453000>Well grayscale is always awesome neutral, esp the middle greys I think, but black and white are awesome too. I find yellow the best "random colour to add to not have a greyscale + CC image"
16:25<V453000>just my opinion but I think that's what many other sprites have
16:25<V453000>like Pikka's :)
16:26<V453000>these are one of the last things I have drawn http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/entry/gfx/MEOW_RAIL.png
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16:27<andythenorth>such yellow :)
16:27<V453000>yar
16:27<andythenorth>I am trying to hold back white for specific classes of vehicle
16:27<andythenorth>there are various colour themes
16:28<V453000>up to you :) I mean, there are reasons why NUTS looks like a parade of random shit instead of looking like a proper set with self-consistent style.
16:29<andythenorth>so my next problem: 4 engines that IRL all look like upside down skips
16:29<andythenorth>just cheese triangles on wheels
16:30<V453000>what :D
16:30*andythenorth wonders if skip translates
16:31<andythenorth>http://www.localskiphire.org/local%20skip%20hire/local_mainimg.jpg
16:31<andythenorth>now invert it, you get modern train
16:31<andythenorth>http://www.vladanfoto.cz/files/class_88/class-88.001-16-04-29-velim-5384z.jpg
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16:33<andythenorth>at least there are ribs and stuff https://www.railcolor.net/images/basic/bomb_35132_52.jpg
16:34<V453000>:D
16:34<V453000>I see
16:34<V453000>I like non-box trains
16:34<V453000>in fact I have been trying to make NUTS trains look like the weirdest shapes before
16:34<andythenorth>Euro trains are all now box, to fit the adverts on
16:34<V453000>in general I learned that most of them don't really work. If it gets too round then it doesn't really look like a train anymore
16:35<V453000>no / \ at the ends?
16:35<andythenorth>well if you push the boundary, you find where the boundary is
16:35<V453000>just | |?
16:35<V453000>pretty much
16:35<andythenorth>no limits exceeded, you don't know the limit
16:35<andythenorth>full wtf mode is only way to find out
16:35<V453000>which is why slugs are so good, no round things but a body which extends instead
16:36<V453000>it's the perfect train candidate
16:36<V453000>snake would work too but eh
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16:36<andythenorth>this is not engine, is work train
16:36<V453000>admittedly I also have a turtle convoy ...
16:36<andythenorth>but shapes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmIofOm-kus
16:37<V453000>what does it do, lay rails?
16:37<V453000>it looks bad ass though, yes
16:37<V453000>honestly, the front can have almost any shape you want
16:38<V453000>but one of the looking good requirements is that the rear links into some kind of a long-y thing
16:38<andythenorth>that's why I dislike cheese trains
16:38<andythenorth>they slope at rear
16:38<V453000>point
16:38<V453000>interesting actually
16:38<V453000>well that's basically what I was talking about with the example earlier
16:38<V453000>with the BRIX-style shape
16:39<andythenorth>not much cheese train here yet http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9003/bird_horse_buy_menu.png
16:39<V453000>I think some degree of cheese is good
16:39<V453000>or can be
16:39<andythenorth>I will have to try one
16:39<V453000>but for example passenger trains = no cheese
16:39<andythenorth>I basically hate slopey stuff in ottd
16:39<V453000>for freight I think it's no problem
16:40<V453000>see how many non slopey trains I have http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5826/EngineTable066.png
16:40<peter1138>Wolf01, bujilding
16:41<peter1138>wetrail woo
16:42<Wolf01>V always overdoing :D
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16:43<andythenorth>much trains
16:43<V453000>Wolf01: I'm going to go full retard on the next one
16:43<andythenorth>very pixel
16:43<andythenorth>nyan still best
16:43<peter1138>+if (!rtid.UnpackIfValid(GB(p1, 0, 2)));
16:43<andythenorth>but not original :P
16:43<peter1138>^ empty if
16:43<peter1138>(not the issue, but still)
16:43<V453000>nyan actually still exists in nuts
16:44<V453000>just not available in any climate :P
16:44<Wolf01>Wow, did I really manage to do that? XD
16:44<V453000>but reverse-compatibility still works
16:44<V453000>Wolf01: wat? :P
16:45<Wolf01>An empty if
16:45<V453000>ah nvm
16:45<V453000>quick check: I can get the vehicle's orientation through some callback, right?
16:46<andythenorth>I could do a this thing http://www.traintesting.com/images/91004%20Welwyn%203-8-88%20D%20percival.jpg
16:46<andythenorth>blunt one end, slopey the other
16:47<andythenorth>don't like em though :)
16:47<V453000>andythenorth: you just started a term for me, cheese shape
16:47<V453000>yeah that's what I would expect from a modern loco
16:48<V453000>I find that very TTD AsiaStar / Lev4 / Turner Turbo / ... -like
16:48<V453000>in a good way
16:49*V453000 waits for andythenorth to make steam locos a box
16:49<andythenorth>could be done
16:49<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3527/RSS5.png
16:49<andythenorth>'cheese slope' is a lego piece https://www.flickr.com/groups/legotrains/pool/with/21916873256/lightbox/
16:49<V453000>this is actually steamer
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16:51<andythenorth>is realism https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/bulleid-leader-class-locomotive-36001-bulleid-leader-class-0660-picture-id102728914
16:51<V453000>anyway, I can get the vehicle's orientation through some callback, right?
16:51<andythenorth>also http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx
16:51<andythenorth>there is some var for orientation
16:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause uses it in CETS
16:51<V453000>oh yeah
16:51<V453000>great :) thanks
16:52<V453000>I think the concept will work
16:52<V453000>"congratulations, your sprite count just increased"
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17:02<andythenorth>I should do a train grf like I did HEQS
17:02<andythenorth>just draw all my favourite stuff
17:02<andythenorth>ignore gameplay or consistent style
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17:05<peter1138>Wolf01, p2 contains a bitmap, RoadTypeIdentifier::UnpackIfValid treats it as a value
17:07<Wolf01>Yes, I wanted to test the bitmap in UnpackIfValid but I must be retarded as it returned only TRAM
17:07<peter1138>Wolf01, nrt uses RoadTypeIdentifiers, not RoadTypeIdentifier
17:07<peter1138>RoadTypeIdentifier contains one, RoadTypeIdentifiers contains two
17:08<Wolf01>Yup
17:08<peter1138>effectively replacing RoadType and RoadTypes, respectively.
17:08<peter1138>You are shoving a RoadTypes into a RoadType
17:08<Wolf01>A RoadTypes which only contains one RoadType
17:09<V453000>I guess that's pretty much how NUTS was made andy
17:09<Wolf01>The old code checked for "exactly one bit set"
17:09<peter1138>Yes it only contains one, but it's passed as roadtypes
17:10<peter1138>roadtype 0 = road, roadtype 1 = tram. roadtypes 0 = empty, roadtypes 1 = road, roadtypes 2 = tram, roadtypes 3 = road and tram
17:10<peter1138>bit 0 of roadtypes is unset when it is tram
17:11<peter1138>then roadtypes tram becomes roadtype road
17:11<peter1138>and roadtypes road becomes roadtype tram
17:11<Wolf01>Yup
17:12<peter1138>So you know what is wrong now?
17:12<Wolf01>Yes, I did know it before, but I wasn't able to fix that
17:12<peter1138>errrr
17:13<LordAro>yay, first of the completely redundant PRs
17:13<peter1138>Wolf01, solution is to properly convert from roadtypes to rtid. unpackifvalid is the wrong function for that.
17:14<peter1138>Wolf01, OR, just change the callers to send a roadtype instead of roadtypes.
17:14<Wolf01>Yes that's what I wanted to do
17:16<LordAro>michi_cc: not sure i would've accepted a single charcter PR, tbh :p
17:18<+michi_cc>What would you've done instead? "Find more typos or else?" or maybe "Thanks but no thanks" :p
17:20<LordAro>one of those :p
17:20<Wolf01>BTW, I think there are a lot of places I still need to convert to rtid, gamescripts, maybe level crossing
17:28<Wolf01>Also 'night
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17:48<andythenorth>V453000: slopey trains are suck http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9004/meh_horse.png
17:48<andythenorth>they look distorted
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 24 00:00:43 2018