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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-04-26

---Logopened Thu Apr 26 00:00:35 2018
---Daychanged Thu Apr 26 2018
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02:55<andythenorth>lo bird
03:01<andythenorth>is it done? o_O
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03:03<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your definition of "is", "it", "done" and possibly "o_O"
03:06*Pikka got distracted watching
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04:55<andythenorth>I removed lots of sprites, because symmetric trains
04:55<andythenorth>then I drew some of them asymmetric :P
05:11<V453000> \
05:11<V453000> /
05:11<V453000>FUCKING windows
05:11<V453000>I iz making pythony things and it's such a mess
05:14<peter1138>So anyone rendering vehicle sprites but using a good amount of sharpening so it's not blurry?
05:15<peter1138>Also, when do we get 3D models in game :D
05:16<andythenorth>they are 3D
05:16<andythenorth>they have x, y, z :P
05:16<peter1138>Yeah no.
05:16<andythenorth>V453000: WHAT ARE YOU DOING
05:16<peter1138>andythenorth, i'm sure a modern game that wasn't in C++ could do it easily, without specs.
05:16<andythenorth>peter1138: probably just use a unity plugin
05:17<andythenorth>don't worry about the CVEs
05:17<andythenorth>I could rebuild OpenTTD in Flash if you want
05:17<V453000>making a drop-folder-on-python-script, 32bpp x4, 32bpp x1, 8bpp x4, 8bpp x1 comes out automatically
05:17<andythenorth>although my skills are a bit 15 years ago
05:17<andythenorth>that's done isn't it?
05:17<andythenorth>use node.js
05:17<peter1138>Natively though
05:17<V453000>making spritesheet, scaling, converting with the other tool
05:17<andythenorth>because even unskilled developers can write highly performant apps
05:18<peter1138>Do you still use spritesheets or individual images?
05:18<V453000>spritesheets for each vehicle in each rotations
05:18<V453000>but not the giant things I had before
05:19<peter1138>Yeah, giant one-image-for-the-whole-set is silly.
05:19<V453000>it wasn't so silly when I didn't have the automatic 8bpp converter
05:19<andythenorth>kind of unwieldy to QA
05:19<andythenorth>V453000: what is this 'drop folder' shit?
05:20<peter1138>I'd probably use individual sprites if I was rendering. Image at 0,0, only thing to set is the offset.
05:20<andythenorth>why do you have to manually intervene?
05:20<andythenorth>if you use a mouse while compiling, that's wrong
05:20<V453000>andythenorth: not having to use any commands to launch the thing
05:20<peter1138>Have one command and double click :D
05:20<V453000>just select folder(s) and it does the thing
05:20<andythenorth>peter1138: that's inefficient to QA
05:20<V453000>hey, it's useful for me :P
05:20<peter1138>That's not particularly automated.
05:20<peter1138>andythenorth, probably but easier to rendering.
05:21<V453000>it's able to run from a command too peter1138
05:21<peter1138>andythenorth, hand-drawn, no.
05:21<peter1138>V453000, then I'd script it so it's repeatable rather than relying on a drag&drop operation that could go wrong with misclicks.
05:21*andythenorth back to automating spritesheets :P
05:21<andythenorth>I am using the word 'gestalt' a lot
05:21<peter1138>Let's just make tools instead of doing the thing.
05:21<andythenorth>it is quite satisfying
05:22<V453000>^ :)
05:22<andythenorth>'boom' look at my automation
05:22<andythenorth>"with one shell command I can script my entire editor"
05:22<andythenorth>or something
05:22<V453000>the players love it andy
05:22<andythenorth>they love the automated compile? o_O
05:22<andythenorth>they'll love it if we ever ship anything :P
05:22<andythenorth>remember how we used to ship?
05:22<V453000>it's the n1 feature for them
05:23<andythenorth>now we don't ship, all hype machines
05:23<V453000>yes I had like 4 nuts releases per week :D
05:23<andythenorth>I haven't shipped anything for months
05:23<V453000>me neither
05:23<andythenorth>except three fixes to FIRS
05:23<andythenorth>2 of the 3 were fixes to the fix
05:23<andythenorth>V453000: it's because it's C++
05:23<peter1138>Let's use minecraft with a custom graphics set to create voxel models and then screenshot them to pngs...
05:23<andythenorth>and the need for specs
05:23<andythenorth>peter1138: plausible
05:24<andythenorth>also we can make MC mods
05:24<V453000>my current plan is to make the prototype with mostly placeholder graphics, let people play it, do updates and make graphics at the same time
05:24<andythenorth>they're compiled to a JIT and super reliable
05:24<V453000>it's basically what I did with NUTS
05:24<andythenorth>and it doesn't matter if they don't work, because change is what players want
05:24<andythenorth>new things
05:24<V453000>when I realize how unfinished NUTS 0.0.1 was compared to latest, it's ridiculous
05:24<andythenorth>they don't have to work
05:24<andythenorth>just be new
05:24<peter1138>but it worked!
05:24<V453000>but of course when designing I am aiming for latest level immediately
05:24<peter1138>(except those bugs, but we ignore those)
05:24<andythenorth>I have a TouchBar mac because Players need New Things
05:24<andythenorth>It Doesn't Work
05:24<andythenorth>but that's secondary
05:25<andythenorth>tech bloggers were being mean to Apple
05:25<andythenorth>so now I have a stupid thing that doesn't work
05:25<peter1138>Is it lunch time yet? I'm going with no but my tummy is grumbling.
05:25<andythenorth>then gaviscon
05:25<peter1138>I have tea.
05:25<andythenorth>the ultimate combo
05:25<peter1138>I don't need Gaviscon, yay.
05:25<V453000>I'm on python now, it's a good trip
05:25<andythenorth>V453000 you should make a grf called 'drugs'
05:25<andythenorth>I can't let my kids play though
05:25<peter1138>I was on it for about a year, pointlessly, because it was my bloody gall-bladder that was being a cunt.
05:25<peter1138>Silly doctors.
05:26<andythenorth>I just eat it for fun
05:26<peter1138>They whipped it out in hospital last year.
05:26<andythenorth>do you have trouble processing fatty foods now?
05:26<peter1138>And Gaviscon tastes a bit nasty.
05:26<andythenorth>someone I know had gall bladder out
05:26<andythenorth>digressing, will Net Nanny stuff ban kids from FIRS?
05:27<peter1138>Yes, me.
05:27<andythenorth>someone else than you
05:27<peter1138>But fattiest stuff I eat anyway tends to be gourmet hipster style burgers.
05:27<andythenorth>FIRS has Coke, Slag, Acid
05:28<andythenorth>also Alcohol
05:28<andythenorth>think of the children
05:28<peter1138>NO VIOLENCE
05:28<andythenorth>even Fertiliser and Oil
05:28<peter1138>Mr dihedral!
05:28<dihedral>Mr peter1138
05:28<andythenorth>allegedly, in early internet days, searching for 'Fertiliser' and 'Diesel' got you flagged on Echelon
05:28<andythenorth>due to the desire to blow things up that way
05:29<andythenorth>also there are Reefers in my newgrfs
05:29<V453000>if you had a vehicle which can run on road and rail, how would you expect it's performance to change based on these tracks?
05:29<andythenorth>and there's an engine called Northcock, which is zero euphemism, but someone is inevitably going to think it is
05:29<V453000>road for more tractive effort, rail for more speed? vice versa?
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05:30<andythenorth>V453000: this is railtype hax?
05:30<andythenorth>or you patching core? :P
05:31<V453000>well I have rails which look like water, roads are next
05:31<andythenorth>child #1 wants to know when we're doing trains that go on road too
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05:31<V453000>this is pretty much that, and it has the bonus feature of diagonal roads :P
05:32<andythenorth>Pikka: shall I streamline my 2-8-2 and please the crowd? o_O
05:32<andythenorth>crowd of one
05:32<andythenorth>^^^^ link above
05:40<Pikka>maybe, maybe not
05:41<andythenorth>only if it looks hench
05:41<andythenorth>Pikka: is your pendolino done yet? :P
05:41<Pikka>oh, that pendolino
05:42<andythenorth>am I on a pendolino?
05:42*andythenorth looks
05:42<andythenorth>no I'm on a Super Voyager thing
05:42<andythenorth>or maybe it's not Super
05:42<andythenorth>doesn't seem to tilt
05:43<Pikka>maybe they turned the tilting off
05:43<Pikka>or it broke
05:43*Pikka tracking tabled Av32, because that was a useful thing to do
05:43<andythenorth>seems to be locked out according to wikipedia
05:43<andythenorth>it's always nice to design a new one
05:43<andythenorth>rather than draw the current one
05:43<andythenorth>I am thinking about NARS3
05:44<andythenorth>GP38, caboose, done?
05:46<Pikka>4-4-0, Big Boy, F7, GP38, SD40-2, ES44AC. That's probably about right.
05:47<andythenorth>can I ignore the cabbage?
05:47<andythenorth>"Just say no to DVTs"
05:47<andythenorth>some of this train is missing...
05:47<andythenorth>that's what happens when the sides are stuck on in the compile
05:47<andythenorth>and they're not drawn yet
05:48<andythenorth>I thought so
05:51<peter1138>Skeleton Horses in Minecraft were pretty scary.
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05:59<Sacro>Where is UKRS7 :(
05:59<Pikka>mmm, minecraft. now there's a game that gets it right when it comes to modern scripting language, half-finished features with no coherent design, and not caring about backwards compatibility
05:59<andythenorth>Sacro: it's UKRSn+1 now
05:59<Pikka>ukrs half-past-nine
05:59<andythenorth>Pikka: but look at the community!!
06:00<andythenorth>there are only two industry sets for OpenTTD
06:00<Pikka>such active modding
06:00<andythenorth>one is dead, and the other has only made tiny improvements
06:00<Pikka>never mind the fact that it's only active because every time the game is updated, all the mods need to be rewritten
06:00<andythenorth>and as child #1 keeps pointing out, there are no mods on Minecraft PE, despite it being most popular platforn
06:00<Pikka>(see also KSP)
06:01<andythenorth>it's change that matters
06:01<andythenorth>not results
06:01<andythenorth>like bad therapy
06:01<Pikka>wot laffs
06:01<andythenorth>the problem is that out attitudes are from 30 years ago
06:01<Sacro>I'll stick with Factorio
06:01<andythenorth>and I can't keep up
06:01<Pikka>tut tut
06:02<andythenorth>I learnt everything about software when I was 10
06:02<andythenorth>also I played loads of TTD in 1988
06:02<andythenorth>V453000: just bitching
06:03<andythenorth>I would actually like to have sensible debates with the relevant OP every year when the latest version of the thread is born again
06:03<andythenorth>like I think KK has some sensible points
06:03<andythenorth>but it's all just expressed in so much wah wah
06:03<andythenorth>and so much wrong
06:04*andythenorth back to making trains not appear the wrong way round in -> view
06:04*Pikka back to making dinner
06:05<andythenorth>shall I add a steam engine to Horse for 2020?
06:05<andythenorth>it's total realism
06:06<V453000>steamers are fun, case closed.
06:06<andythenorth>it would be the one from 1930, back again
06:06<andythenorth>upgraded, faster
06:06<andythenorth>it is a conundrum
06:06<andythenorth>player feedback is that realism is better
06:07<andythenorth>but the UK has stopped buying new locomotives and stuff
06:07<andythenorth>so when I just repeat the old ones (like realism)
06:07<andythenorth>they are unhappy
06:07<andythenorth>FLHerne: I blame you :D
06:08<FLHerne>andythenorth: Mm
06:09<andythenorth>I am on a train
06:09<andythenorth>maybe I can look out the window for new trains
06:09<andythenorth>and draw them quick
06:10<andythenorth>I can see some now
06:10<andythenorth>all Cargo Sprinters though
06:11<FLHerne>Aw, you renamed the Raven :-(
06:11<FLHerne>I know it was 'realistic' before, but it was also a cool name. The new one is silly :P
06:12<FLHerne>(the new tank names are nice, though)
06:15<andythenorth>I could unrename the Raven
06:15<andythenorth>Raven is a bird, animal names are possible
06:15<andythenorth>it's also named after the designer
06:15<andythenorth>it just didn't sound very hench
06:16<andythenorth>'Super Raven' :P
06:16<andythenorth>NUTS Horse
06:18<FLHerne>Looking at your revised linear speed bands, I still think they're wrong ;-)
06:18<andythenorth>that's ok, the possibility of a parameter still
06:18<andythenorth>I just make one step at a time, cleaner
06:18<FLHerne>You have 60mph locos from 1860-1900, then nothing, then 1930-1950
06:18<andythenorth>do I?
06:18*andythenorth checks
06:19<FLHerne>Then 75mph from 1900-1930, nothing, 1960-1990
06:19<andythenorth>that looks like errors
06:19<andythenorth>let's check
06:20<FLHerne>No, it's because freight and pax are still two bands apart, but you only move up one each generation, so there's no overlap
06:20<FLHerne>(except the first one because it's a bit different)
06:21<andythenorth>branch engines are bugged though
06:21*andythenorth fixes
06:21<FLHerne>(90mph 1930-1960, nothing, 1990-2020, etc.)
06:21<FLHerne>Oh, right, those were meant to be pax speed
06:22<FLHerne>I still think the smaller freight loco, and maybe also the branch loco? should be in the middle band that's currently empty in each gen
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06:22<FLHerne>Latter might be annoying if they have to share tracks with expresses ever
06:22<andythenorth>k biab, change trains
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10:18<nielsm>okay, back from vacation and most major troubles that occurred in the meantime are resolved... time to try to rebase those patchsets I worked on before
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10:29<andythenorth_>there are trains
10:29<andythenorth_>I can see one
10:35<peter1138>I can see... sunshne.
10:35<peter1138>With an i.
10:35<peter1138>Seems it is going to piss down tomorrow though :(
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10:39<andythenorth_>even more trains
10:39<andythenorth_>how rare
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10:56<nielsm>okay managed to rebase one patchset correctly!
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11:41<nielsm>:( jenkins fails to merge my pull request, somehow
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11:47<LordAro>nielsm: it's very particular about commit messages
11:47<LordAro>and you appear to have merge conflict
11:48<LordAro>(there's also a an svn commit in your branch, somehow)
11:48<nielsm>ugh so I did make a mistake when rebasing after all?
11:48<LordAro>you're nearly there
11:48<LordAro>well, you may have made a mistake :p
11:48<nielsm>ah right
11:48<LordAro>but just re-rebasing onto HEAD should do the job
11:49<LordAro>the hardest bit will be squashing/moving/merging commits
11:49<nielsm>what I did was rebase onto the commit in the new github repo that matched the one my old branch was based on
11:49<nielsm>then afterwards merge master into the branch
11:49<nielsm>should have rebased onto master instead?
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11:51<nielsm>that svn commit that somehow sneaks in is probably from something that happened during merge master
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11:56<LordAro>nielsm: yeah, no merge commits in this repo pls
12:00<LordAro>nielsm: also, force pushing means you don't need to create new pull requests
12:01<LordAro>oh wait, i misread
12:01<LordAro>carry on
12:01<nielsm>trying to make sense of things locally atm :)
12:02<nielsm>git UI is annoying, I'm pretty sure I understand the graph and objects stuff behind the scenes correctly, and I know how I want things to look, but I just don't know the commands to make it happen
12:07<LordAro>git rebase master, probably
12:07<LordAro>upstream/master or origin/master, depending on your checkout
12:07<LordAro>and then git rebase -i master to reword/reorganise commits
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12:18<nielsm>force pushed now
12:19<nielsm>will have to do that again after changing all commit messages though...
12:20<peter1138>Problem is lots of commits like "WIP" and "now working"
12:20<LordAro>rebasing is love, rebasing is life
12:21<peter1138>"untested" whew, brave.
12:21<LordAro>it compiles, ship it
12:22<peter1138>Who needs reviews :p
12:23<nielsm>commits like "update visual studio project files" should they be squashed into the previous? since that previous actually removes some source files
12:24<LordAro>i'd say so
12:24<peter1138>Don't commit project file changes.
12:24<peter1138>Always edit source.list and run projects/generate
12:24<peter1138>It's made a right mess
12:25<LordAro>well you still need to commit the project file changes :p
12:25<peter1138>But not like this
12:25<LordAro>ah, i haven't looked at the actual changes
12:25<peter1138>LordAro, and source.list hasn't been touched
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12:26<nielsm>I am certainly updated source.list and running generate.vbs
12:26<nielsm>not editing the VS project files by hand
12:26<peter1138>What's with the xml change to every file then?
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12:27<peter1138>Maybe generate.vbs doesn't work properly. Hmm.
12:27<nielsm>the source.list change is in the commit that deletes the old source files
12:27<peter1138>So to answer your original question , yes :P
12:27<nielsm>the generate_vs14[01].vcxproj change to xml declaration would seem to be something with UTF8 BOM
12:28<nielsm>but why it changes the order of spanish.txt and spanish_MX.txt around everywhere, no clue
12:28<peter1138>Thing is, you didn't review what was changed in the project file commit.
12:29<nielsm>does the unix projects/generate script also update the VS project files?
12:29<nielsm>I can run that in WSL then
12:30<nielsm>marking that commit as 'edit' then
12:30<peter1138>I don't actually know how to run generate.vbs
12:30<nielsm>cscript generate.vbs
12:30<nielsm>that simple actually
12:30<nielsm>and it does things
12:31<peter1138>cscript wasn't obvious
12:31<peter1138>Ok, Yeah, running that fucks all the proejct files up :p
12:31<peter1138>I don't get the utf-8 bom change
12:31<peter1138>but there is the reordering
12:31<peter1138>Actually the reordering is the only thing.
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12:31<peter1138>So something odd happened with yours for it to mess with the BOM
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12:32<peter1138>WIPs should be squashed together into something that works :p
12:33<nielsm>then I have this "code style" where I fix up all previous changes to follow the style conventions.... spreading that out will be a major pain :(
12:33<peter1138>SHould've got it right in the first place ;)
12:35<peter1138>Also probably too many things going on in one PR
12:36<nielsm>I tried separating things, I really did
12:36<nielsm>at first
12:36<nielsm>and just kept getting all the changes intertwined
12:36<peter1138>feature to change music set during gameplay
12:36<peter1138>seems unrelated
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12:37<peter1138>Nice separate PR, that one.
12:42<nielsm>projects/generate run on WLS on my system also changes the order of the spanish/spanish_MX language files
12:43<@Rubidium>sounds like different sorting on file system level between OSes
12:43<nielsm>the generate script should probably do an ASCII sort of filenames before adding them?
12:44<nielsm>instead of depending on filesystem randomness
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12:53<nielsm>this seems to cause generate to keep the ordering:
12:53<nielsm>and I think it is portable across different unices/compatibles?
12:55<+glx>I guess it's about mx lang file in projects
12:57<nielsm>made a PR for that generate script fix
12:58<peter1138>Needs more than that.
12:58<peter1138>With sort -d, spanish_MX comes before spanish for me
12:59<peter1138>as it does in our project files
12:59<peter1138>it's generate.vbs that does it the other way
13:00<LordAro>shouldn't be using ls anyway
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13:03<+glx>generate on mingw changes the order too
13:03<+glx>so it's not only the vbs
13:03<+glx>it's more related to the OS
13:03<nielsm>yes it seems to be windows' FS driver that returns files in another order
13:04<Wolf01>I can confirm
13:04<nielsm>and of course VBS doesn't have any built-in sorting
13:04<nielsm>so enjoy writing a little bubblesort or whatever for it
13:05<nielsm>of course, comparing the filenames exactly like 'sort -d' would
13:05<peter1138>on linux it seems to sort by alphanumerics
13:05<peter1138>so windows is right :p
13:06<peter1138>spanish.txt comes after spanish_mx on linux cos t > m
13:06<peter1138>english_au comes before english.txt on linux cos a < t
13:07<peter1138>egnlish_us comes after english cos u > t
13:07<peter1138>fun :p
13:07<peter1138>so it needs the opposite of sort -d
13:07<+glx>but it should sort based on what is before the . :)
13:07<Wolf01>If you select a list of files and copy them on windows, it copies first the last one, then back from the first, and that causes a LOT of problems where you need to have files placed sequentially independent of the filename... like my car radio and some dvd players I use to see old photo albums on dvd
13:07<peter1138>glx, yeah. windows does, linux doesn't.
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13:08<peter1138>Wolf01, yeah, screw those systems that can't understand filenames :(
13:08<peter1138>Wolf01, there's even a tool specifically for reordering the file list on a dos partition
13:08<Wolf01>They just read in the fs order
13:08<+glx>Wolf01: it's also funny when you drag a selection in vlc, you won't know the order in the playlist
13:09<Wolf01>Ah, yes, I noticed that too
13:09<Wolf01>I now use teracopy which does the copy in the right order and so no more problems :P
13:21<peter1138>(Interesting that only spanish shows up differently, though)
13:22<Wolf01>Oh, that, it is a pita every time I regenerate the projects :D
13:22<peter1138>Thanks for reporting it as a bug :p
13:23<Wolf01>You are welcome :p
13:23<peter1138>Actually there probably is one in there, a few years ago ;)
13:30<+glx> <peter1138> (Interesting that only spanish shows up differently, though) <-- because the other file that could cause problem is english.txt but it's skipped by generate
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13:31<nielsm>looking at generate.vbs now, changing it to sort the files in "linux ordering" would be rather troublesome
13:31<nielsm>since it loops directly on the FileSystemObject data rather on a copy of an array
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13:32<nielsm>so it'd have to first copy out all the filenames to a new array, then sort them (using a custom sorting function), then do the current stuff
13:34<peter1138>ls -1 src/lang | sed 's/.txt//g' | sort | sed 's/$/.txt/g'
13:35<nielsm>question is whether you can depend on windows always returning the files in this particular order ;)
13:35<+glx>windows tends to be conservative
13:35<nielsm>(in which case changing the shell script to produce that ordering would be the easier)
13:36<+glx>because a lot of existing stuff relies on 'defined' behaviour
13:36<peter1138>And also do it for the other ls.
13:37<nielsm>afk, dinner
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14:11<TrueBrain_>w00p, lets see if I can make a 64bit Windows binary :D SO MUCH HYPE
14:11-!-TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain
14:11<TrueBrain>weird name
14:12<TrueBrain>okay, so supybot is no longer really supported I see
14:14<peter1138>GET HYPED
14:14<TrueBrain>235 warnings
14:14<TrueBrain>0 errors
14:14<TrueBrain>3 minute and 45 seconds
14:14<TrueBrain>that is a lot faster than I expected tbfh
14:15<TrueBrain>binary of 32 MiB?!
14:15<TrueBrain>holy crap
14:15<TrueBrain>why is OpenTTD so hugggeeeeeee
14:16<peter1138>Hmm, I've been building 32 bit all this time :p
14:16<TrueBrain>last build it was only 13 MiB .. so why is this so much bigger ..
14:17<peter1138>Is it a debug build?
14:17<TrueBrain>did /p:Configuration=Release
14:17<TrueBrain>I did use static libraries
14:17<TrueBrain>and I see libpng.lib is 2 MiB ..
14:17<TrueBrain>that is a huge number right there
14:18<TrueBrain>ICU is also BIIGGGGG
14:18<peter1138>And buggy
14:20<TrueBrain>yeah, those libraries should be a lot smaller
14:20<peter1138>my debug was 33MB
14:20<peter1138>my release is 14MB
14:20<peter1138>So I think you've got a debug build.
14:20<TrueBrain>libpng.lib should be around 400 kib
14:21<TrueBrain>if /p:Configuration=Release doesnt give a release, than yes
14:21<peter1138>Hmm, or debug builds of the libs?
14:21<TrueBrain>otherwise, I think my libs are wrong
14:21<peter1138>I dunno :p
14:21<peter1138>libpng.lib is 497KB for me.
14:21<peter1138>ICU is... lots.
14:22<TrueBrain>I think the libraries are static too
14:22<TrueBrain>which is fine
14:22<LordAro>pretty sure i read somewhere recently that vcpkg gets 32bit libs by default
14:22<TrueBrain>no clue why the executable is so big
14:22<LordAro>might have been here
14:22<TrueBrain>nope; vcpkg does what it should do
14:22<TrueBrain>nicely has the targets split
14:23<TrueBrain>but also totally irrelevant; 32bit libraries dont work for a 64bit binary
14:23<TrueBrain>and I have a binary
14:23<LordAro>not tried it myself
14:23<LordAro>does it run? :p
14:23<TrueBrain>running a Headless windows; no clue how to check that
14:24<LordAro>i had to work around missing this fix today;h=ddff3d84be42fa80c2c9aaa635f2b9269e74e4f9
14:25<TrueBrain>the executable runs fine; pretty smooth even for a VM it runs in
14:27<TrueBrain>guess it is time to try the non-static vcpkg files
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14:28<peter1138>group icons eh?
14:29<peter1138>God, VS is annoying to use.
14:29<TrueBrain>still no word from AWS .. really think they put me on their ignore list :(
14:30<TrueBrain>yo yo yoooooo
14:30<andythenorth>how does int(foo/2) work then?
14:30<Wolf01>TrueBrain: write at Bezos directly
14:30<andythenorth>seems to round down
14:30<TrueBrain>owh no, its a Zuu
14:30<TrueBrain>andythenorth: depending on the language, it tends to round down, yes
14:30<TrueBrain>never do that in Python .... Python2 or Python3?
14:31<Zuu>A git topic got me here.
14:31<TrueBrain>took you long enough :P
14:31<andythenorth>does it reliably round down?
14:31<TrueBrain>andythenorth: 3 / 2 -> 1.5 3 // 2 -> 1
14:31<andythenorth>or should I floor it
14:31<TrueBrain>never use int()
14:31<TrueBrain>just never ever use int() ....
14:31<andythenorth>I need the result as an int
14:32<TrueBrain>so foo // 2
14:32<TrueBrain>always returns an int, always rounded down
14:32<Zuu>I actually read the topic when it was quite new, but took me some time to get here yes.
14:32<TrueBrain>andythenorth: internally, // is called 'floordiv'
14:32<andythenorth>worth knowing
14:32<TrueBrain>Zuu: the travels on the web is long :D
14:33<TrueBrain>andythenorth: it is very nice of Python to have 2 operators for it :) int / int -> float, int // int -> int
14:33<TrueBrain>makes so much code so much nicer
14:33<peter1138>int / (float)int
14:33<peter1138>Hmm, my jenkins has blown up again :(
14:33<TrueBrain>peter1138: no need for (float). what I wrote is correct. No casting. dont cast in Python. Never
14:34<TrueBrain>(well, holds for Python3)
14:34<TrueBrain>int / int -> float in Python 3 .. well, or int
14:34<TrueBrain>if you are casting in Python, you are really doing it wrong
14:34<TrueBrain>cast with (bytes), learn how to do decode/encode
14:35<TrueBrain>cast with int/float, learn the rules :)
14:35<peter1138>TrueBrain, yeah i was refering to C :p
14:35<TrueBrain>yes, as we were talking about C. Sorry. My mistake.
14:35<TrueBrain>(silly goose)
14:35<peter1138>As in "that's the not so much nicer way"
14:36<peter1138>i may have optimised that bit away
14:36<TrueBrain>optmizations give for bad conversations :D
14:36<TrueBrain>we just all talk empty-space and dots
14:36<TrueBrain>your smile is wrong :s
14:36<TrueBrain>you scare me
14:37<andythenorth>7 hours on trains today :P
14:37<TrueBrain>I normally ride in trains
14:37<TrueBrain>but I guess on can also be fun
14:37<TrueBrain>did you go to India?
14:37<TrueBrain>I just imagine andythenorth sitting on a train. His son walks in: DAD! GET OFF THAT TRAIN!
14:38<TrueBrain>or maybe he is not walking on eggs, but he is walking on trains
14:38<TrueBrain>does have another vibe to it ... "I have been walking on trains today"
14:38<nielsm>okay patchset is starting to be a bit more sensible now?
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14:39<TrueBrain>even his connection lost it
14:39<TrueBrain>nielsm: note that none of these commit messages will be accepted by the CI :)
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14:39<LordAro>nielsm: see the list of approved prefixes
14:39<nielsm>TrueBrain I think two of them will! :)
14:39<LordAro>but otherwise yes
14:39<TrueBrain>andythenorth: dont go offline when I am talking trash to you!
14:39<andythenorth>sorry, Apple think it's good to turn off TCP/IP
14:39<nielsm>I'm fixing things bit by bit, shuffling around code between commits is tricky to get right
14:39<andythenorth>it saves battery
14:39<TrueBrain>nielsm: in general we have to think about how to process your PR .. as there is no way we can keep working on it till the whole set gets an approval :)
14:40<andythenorth>so they micro-sleep the network connection constantly
14:40<andythenorth>which is crap for irc
14:40<TrueBrain>yes, as the network negotiation and TCP negotiation are so cheap ..
14:40<TrueBrain>fucking wankers
14:40<nielsm>if I separate the GUI changes and the playlist/title screen logic out into separate patchsets, is it fine to keep the win32 music driver and dos music support as a single PR?
14:40<andythenorth>just waiting for a better alternative...
14:41<andythenorth>tick tock
14:41<nielsm>since those are very closely intertwined
14:41<TrueBrain>yeah, there should be a balance of work vs reward :D
14:41<TrueBrain>but I am mostly interested in the music driver .. as I really dont want to findout how to get dmusic working ...
14:41<TrueBrain>its horrible ......
14:41<TrueBrain>does win64 currently have midi support?
14:42<andythenorth>oops forgot to 'make install'
14:43<andythenorth>that's why my grf still is broken in-game :P
14:43<TrueBrain>I had that many times today
14:43<andythenorth>how do I even tie my shoelaces? :P
14:43<TrueBrain>WHY DOESNT THIS WORK! Wait ... 'make' ....
14:43*andythenorth has shoes without shoelaces
14:43<TrueBrain>has no shoes
14:43<TrueBrain>and no pants
14:43<Zuu>gulp watch => make?
14:45<TrueBrain>real men don't automate!
14:45<nielsm>TrueBrain yes win64 has full midi support
14:45<TrueBrain>then why does win32 need DirectX for?
14:45<nielsm>(professional music software depends on that too)
14:45<TrueBrain>no, I meant OpenTTD :D
14:45<TrueBrain>OpenTTD win64 :)
14:46<TrueBrain>OpenTTD win32 needs DirectX dmusic shit
14:46<TrueBrain>OpenTTD win64 doesn't ... made me wonder if MIDI worked at all
14:46<nielsm>the current two music drivers in openttd are more properly called directmusic and mci
14:46<nielsm>rather than directmusic and win32
14:46<nielsm>since the "win32" driver uses the ancient MCI interface
14:46<TrueBrain>yes; for which is no win64 from what I understood
14:46<TrueBrain>but so why do we still have it?
14:46<TrueBrain>or does your patch fixes all that?
14:46<nielsm>and for some reason using MCI MIDI on newer versions of windows has massive delays when loading files
14:47<nielsm>5-7 second pauses between tracks
14:47<nielsm>(or when looping the title song)
14:47<peter1138>Whatever is there works for me.
14:47<Zuu>But it is easy to just remove music support and compile without dmusic. At least that is what I used to do. Now I have to see if I can get VS up and runnig to compille OpenTTD.
14:47<TrueBrain>removing music is never an option :D
14:47<TrueBrain>and I am more worried how I should do the official binaries :P
14:47<peter1138>Zuu, that's not useful for a compile farm :)
14:47<TrueBrain>I really really really do not want to look into dmusic :(
14:48<nielsm>my new driver on windows basically implements a brand new low-level midi file parser and timing control to second it to the system midi output...
14:48<TrueBrain>and removes dmusic?
14:48<TrueBrain>wait ...
14:48<TrueBrain>so yeah, if you can split that off from the GUI changes and random README changes etc, would be lovely
14:48<nielsm>dmusic has some neat ideas, honestly, but it was too late and no game developers wanted to use it anyway :D
14:49<TrueBrain>especially if you can offer only the new MIDI driver .. makes reviewing a lot easier :)
14:49<Zuu>peter1138: that put it in a different perspective yes.
14:50<nielsm>just gonna make a force push again...
14:50<TrueBrain>if supybot is no longer the standard .. what IRC bot is (in Python3)?
14:50<TrueBrain>make all the force pushes you need nielsm :)
14:50<TrueBrain>we can handle them! :)
14:51<nielsm>7f7c2d0 is the commit that contains the entire new music driver in the basic form, but there are some later fixes I haven't cleaned up yet
14:51<nielsm>if you want to test it ;)
14:52<TrueBrain>I wait for the cleanup :D
14:52<TrueBrain>gives me some time to prepare the release binaries a bit more .. maybe I can try to build the PR with it so we can all test it on different systems :)
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14:53<nielsm>I'd appreciate if someone could try out the dos music support on non-windows systems now, before the cleanup is done
14:53<nielsm>so I don't have to go back and fix that later again
14:54<nielsm>it's really simple, just decodes the song, dumps to a temp file, and loads the temp file
14:54<nielsm>but I'm not sure whether it's an appropriate location I write the temp file to, and some other details
14:54<TrueBrain>cheaty :D But MIDI on non-windows always has been a bit of a problem :)
14:54<nielsm>(I don't have any non-windows systems on hand)
14:55<TrueBrain>me neither :(
14:56<nielsm>oh yeah, also the fix for music looping I've made, can only work with the new win32 driver if the windows-TTD music files are used, since they depend on low level control of playback
14:56<nielsm>(this includes the fix for "can't get there from here" having the long silence at the end)
14:56<TrueBrain>I think it will take a bit of time and a few PRs before we get your stuff in :D
15:00<nielsm>please call it version 2.0 then ;)
15:01<nielsm>(more like 7.0 with all the other features also introduced since 1.0, but version numbers are meaningless anyway)
15:06<+glx>I used MidiOut for opendune, but music playing was a lot more low level there than in openttd
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15:12<nielsm>if anyone's interested, here's a win32 build:
15:14-!-supermop_work [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14<TrueBrain>that is what OpenTTD needs ... auto-updating, and channels! So we can push test versions to a select few people
15:14<TrueBrain>for that we need to get statistics how people use the game
15:14<TrueBrain>so we can target them
15:15<TrueBrain>of course than we can talk with companies to sell that data too
15:15<TrueBrain>(I AM JOKING! Ffs ...)
15:15<peter1138> no not that.
15:15<peter1138>Auto updating would be good.
15:15<peter1138>I even had people request that.
15:15<TrueBrain>yup; I am surprised that is not in yet :D
15:15<TrueBrain>channels is also nice, for nightly/beta/release
15:15<TrueBrain>statistics how peopleuse the game .... I rather burn the server to the ground
15:16<Zuu>Then I could finally retire ottdau :-)
15:16<peter1138>Hmm, wonder how to support it on non-Windows.
15:16<TrueBrain>so why havent you added this to OpenTTD yet Zuu?! :P
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15:16<TrueBrain>apt upgrade openttd? :P
15:16<peter1138>Of course it's possible but package managers and shit.
15:16<+glx>so for now dmusic is disabled at compile time for win64, and win64 has music via mci
15:16<+glx>win32 has both
15:16<Zuu>I don't relly have a compiler for it other than at work, but is to lazy to rewrite it.
15:17<LordAro>some sort of notification is usually good enough
15:17<peter1138>Nah, now that everyone is used to Steam auto updating everything...
15:17<peter1138>(Let's not go on Steam though)
15:17<LordAro>"a newer vsrsion is available at xyz, go get it"
15:18*peter1138 attempts to find out how to make Jenkins parse gendarme reports.
15:18<Zuu>TrueBrain: Good question. Maybe I got drowned to much into AIs and Game Scripts. :-)
15:20*andythenorth would like to collect user data
15:20<andythenorth>we can call it a fair trade for connecting people
15:21<andythenorth>there is no sarcasm emoticon is there
15:21<andythenorth>^^ this is the kind of thing that came back to haunt Zuck
15:22<andythenorth>except he maybe meant what he said 15 years ago :P
15:31<TrueBrain>right, turns out that after a Plesk update, emails could no longer be recieved
15:32-!-sla_ro|master [] has quit []
15:32<TrueBrain>and the emails telling me about it ... couldnt be sent :D
15:33<+glx>seems logic
15:36<TrueBrain>amazing how you dont really notice if you dont receive any emails .. it is like: hmm .. weird .. but what-evah
15:38<andythenorth>email is the inverse of a good alerting system :P
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15:42<TrueBrain>now the binary is 4 MiB .. that seems too small
15:43<TrueBrain>and, it is
15:43<TrueBrain>now it needs dlls etc
15:43<TrueBrain>I hate dlls :P
15:43<TrueBrain>so either it is mega-fat .. or too-slim
15:44<TrueBrain>error while loading shared libraries: ?: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
15:44<TrueBrain>no shit ...
15:44<TrueBrain>is ? not a valid file?!
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15:46<+glx>static is easier, else we need to distribute the dlls
15:46<TrueBrain>but static was 40+ MiB
15:46<TrueBrain>which is a bit weird
15:47<+glx>I have 31,7MB for a debug x64 build
15:47<TrueBrain>it was a release build ...
15:47<+glx>starting a release x64 build
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15:49<andythenorth>so we're not adding depot flip for articulated vehicles, right?
15:52<nielsm>.... I _just_ now realized there's the files in media/baseset/ that are used to generate the bin/baseset/ files from with translations for descriptions
15:52<nielsm>that's also a thing I'll have to fix
15:57<andythenorth>we could allow flipping the bit if the vehicle permits it :P
15:57<+glx>ok release x64 is 13.4MB
15:57<andythenorth>but not actually reversing the sprites in openttd
15:57<andythenorth>although openttd doesn't seem to reverse the sprites for me anyway
15:57<andythenorth>I had to handle it explicitly
15:58<TrueBrain>glx: yeah, I think my issue is in the deps .. not using openttd-useful :)
15:58<+glx>ah, use them then
16:00<TrueBrain>I was trying to avoid using some random libraries :)
16:00<TrueBrain>vcpkg is a much cleaner way to drag them in
16:00<TrueBrain>(and they are updated!)
16:04<+glx>oh yes vcpkg looks nice, I should try it
16:06<+glx>and I like the integration option
16:08<TrueBrain>yes; it isa very clean solution; not as dirty as our current :)
16:10<peter1138>Wonder why it's bigger with them. Hmm.
16:10<TrueBrain>ah; despite the configuration settings, it did build a debug after all
16:10<TrueBrain>so what is wrong here ..
16:11<TrueBrain>ah, because this round I couldnt type
16:11<TrueBrain>explains why the linker fails
16:13<TrueBrain>right, now it links again
16:13<TrueBrain>people keep telling me I should do /MT and DEFAULTNOLIB .. no clue how to do that via msbuild :D
16:14<TrueBrain>I see MT is set in the project file anyway
16:14<TrueBrain>32 MiB is the RELEASE binary (I double checked :P)
16:16<peter1138>How big is the debug binary?
16:16<+glx>blame ICU I think :)
16:16<TrueBrain>not tried to build that yet .. will try next
16:17<+glx>or we can compare your .lib sizes vs useful-6.0
16:17<TrueBrain>I assume MSVC also does some optimizations, and prune unneeded stuff?
16:17<orudge`>TrueBrain: I tried using vcpkg for ICU
16:17<orudge`>but we use things in ICU that are no longer present
16:18<TrueBrain>you have to downgrade to 57
16:18-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
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16:18<TrueBrain>I wish LordAro hurried up with Pango .. than you no longer have to
16:18<nielsm>the TTO theme sounds bad on the MS GM synth after having heard it on a real roland sc-55 :(
16:18<TrueBrain>(as in 61, even in 59, Layout is removed)
16:19<+glx>pango is a pain with deps
16:19<+glx>but it's probably better than icu ;)
16:20<@orudge>Maybe I should dust off my ancient MP3/Vorbis music patches for OpenTTD (I think they're so ancient they're still in C) - give you a few more libraries to have to support, TrueBrain :D
16:20<@orudge>To be fair, when I had the time to play OpenTTD, I tended to play with the various FM recordings up on my web site in Winamp, and mute the OpenTTD MIDI music itself
16:21<TrueBrain>hmm .. this is interesting .. I guess openttd-useful is build with static library, but dynamic crt
16:21<TrueBrain>in vcpkg, static means both library and crt static
16:21<nielsm>do like GZDoom/other modern doom ports and include a bunch of different synthesizers right in the program
16:21<nielsm>afaik they also have some FM synth emulators and more built in
16:21<peter1138>Yeah, including a synth would be a nice option.
16:21<@orudge>TrueBrain: no, pretty sure OpenTTD.exe is entirely static CRT, at least the version that gets built on the server
16:22<@orudge>A new option for the content downloader, your prefered MIDI synth :)
16:22<@orudge>I think the OpenTTD Android port basically includes a copy of timidity
16:22<nielsm>note: if you add softsynth support I'd also have to reverse the FM music from the dos version!
16:23<peter1138>Oh god.
16:23<peter1138>The patches...
16:23<+glx>checking in depends
16:23<peter1138>Content Download: fluidsynth patches
16:23<peter1138>Hmm, wonder if this is working.
16:24<TrueBrain>orudge: not what I said at all :) I was talking about the libraries :)
16:24<peter1138>Publishing gendarme results probably shouldn't take longer than actually running gendarme.
16:24<peter1138>Does that mean you have copies of a static CRT for each static lib?
16:25<andythenorth>made a train
16:25<@orudge>TrueBrain: so the libraries are built to use a dynamic CRT, but OpenTTD is linked statically? Or something? Either way it sounds wrong :)
16:25<TrueBrain>not helping, but tnx for the letters :)
16:25<peter1138>Oh, I think I didn't save that palette sprite sheet :(
16:26<peter1138>And my history seems to be poor these days
16:26<+glx>my release build is linked against msvcrt.dll
16:26<@orudge>glx: that would be a mingw32 build then
16:26<TrueBrain>glx: does the installer install msvcrt?
16:26<+glx>no it's an msvc release x64 build
16:26<TrueBrain>glx: which tool to use on windows to look to deps ?
16:26<+glx>dependancy walker
16:27<TrueBrain>I only have a PowerShell :D
16:27<@orudge>glx: and it's definitely msvcrt.dll, and not msvcr140.dll?
16:27<@orudge>That seems unusual
16:27<TrueBrain>can you check the deps of the libpng.lib in openttd-uesful for me?
16:27<@orudge>since msvcrt.dll is the VC6 runtime library
16:27<+glx>it's the msvcrt.dll present in system32
16:28<@orudge>mingw uses msvcrt.dll, but you have to do some fun hacks to get MSVC 7+ to link against msvcrt.dll I believe
16:28<TrueBrain>ugh, creating a debug build is painful ... vcpkg named the libs differently (and rightfully), but openttd-useful used a special way of writing them .. so they are not compatible :D
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16:31<Zuu>In the new git commit style, there is no attribution field. Should I omit the patch author when making a PR for an flysplay patch?
16:31<TrueBrain>okay, building crt:dynamic, lib:static libraries .. see if that changes anything at all
16:31<+glx>and it doesn't work with .lib
16:31<TrueBrain>Zuu: you mean the (patch by NN) at the end of commit messages?
16:32<TrueBrain>Zuu: as I still do that. And mention the bug/patch
16:32<Zuu>Or just (NN) at the end
16:32<TrueBrain>check on of the older commits from last week
16:32<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: The openttd-useful libs are also for a static CRT.
16:32<TrueBrain>michi_cc: than why is libpng.lib for me 2MiB, and 500 KiB in openttd-useful?
16:33<TrueBrain>(well, I more tried to type: do you have any clue why :D)
16:34<+michi_cc>Is vcpkg defaulting to link time code generation? In that case, the .lib contains intermediate code and not real code. I never enabled that because it is compiler version dependant.
16:35<TrueBrain>dunno, honestly
16:35<TrueBrain>I just see my resulting .exe is HUGE
16:35<TrueBrain>like twice as big
16:35<TrueBrain>so I was hoping I could blame the libraries
16:35<TrueBrain>I wish we used cmake, than things would go a bit more smooth
16:36<+michi_cc>The release build could still include symbols in the exe.
16:36<@orudge>Visual Studio 2017 is best buddies with cmake now apparently, although I haven't really tried it much myself
16:37<TrueBrain>any suggestions I could try, are welcome michi_cc :) I have no clue what your sentence implies for me :D
16:39<TrueBrain>lol, vcpkg adds *.lib in the linker command
16:39<+michi_cc>Are you building the project files or something different. If yes, it has to be caused by the libraries, but I have no idea how vcpkg operates under to hood.
16:40<TrueBrain>are you doing A or B. if yes, .. ? :D
16:40<+michi_cc>The openttd-useful libs were always carefully hand-crafted from the original sources :)
16:40<TrueBrain>but I am doing 'msbuild projects\openttd_vs141.sln'
16:40<TrueBrain>yes; hand-crafted, and unmaintained :)
16:40<TrueBrain>go us!
16:41<TrueBrain>I would much rather switch to something upstream :)
16:42<+michi_cc>Unless a recent vs2017 update made it produce huge binaries, I'd very much suspect the libs somehow. The sln contains all compiler options for the exe itself.
16:43<TrueBrain>I compile with vs141, and I get warnings during linking of missing vs140.pdb
16:45<+michi_cc>A random older vs141 openttd.exe I have around is almost 32MB, and it is a DEBUG build. So double and tripple check that :)
16:45<TrueBrain>did, did it again, and again
16:45<TrueBrain>debug doesn't even compile :)
16:45<TrueBrain>(well, not link)
16:45<TrueBrain>as I am too lazy to rename libs
16:45<TrueBrain>and if you know a way to find out if a library is compiled with release/debug, I would love to hear it. vcpkg says they are release, but .. *shrug*
16:45<TrueBrain>cannot confirm that
16:46<TrueBrain>openttd.exe is also in objs/x64/Release/
16:46<TrueBrain>so if it is not a release, it is not because I didnt yell it to be a release :)
16:47<+glx>if it's in x64/Release it's a release
16:47<+glx>our project files are correct for that :)
16:48<TrueBrain>some optimization? debug symbols left in there?
16:48<+glx>debug stuff is in the pdb
16:49<TrueBrain>the .pdb is slightly bigger than the .exe :)
16:49<+michi_cc>I don't think there's any way to see how a lib was build. Especially as you could put the Debug options into Release and vice versa to anger people :)
16:50<+michi_cc>glx: There is also CodeView debug symbols that are embedded in the exe/libs, but I can't see any reason why vcpkg would use them by default.
16:50<TrueBrain>the linker command has a /debug in there .. not sure why, or what it does
16:52<+glx>opened libpng.lib in notepad++, I see x64\Release Library\pngwutil.obj and stuff like that in it
16:53<+glx>maybe you can check your vcpkg libpng.lib in a text editor
16:53<TrueBrain>okay, the /debug just makes the pdb
16:54<andythenorth>I should have PR-ed your repo eh :P
16:54<peter1138>Probably :)
16:54<TrueBrain>what is the powershell command to grep in an output ..
16:54-!-nielsm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56<+glx>Get-Content .\doc.txt | Select-String -Pattern (Get-Content .\regex.txt)
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16:57<TrueBrain>hard to tell anything .. my paths are different, but duhh :D
16:58<TrueBrain>ah, the compile flags are in the lib
16:58<TrueBrain>-MT is there
16:59<TrueBrain>-DWIN32 .. silly libpng :D
16:59<TrueBrain>so yeah, sounds like a release lib :)
17:02<+glx>I can't find the flags in .lib
17:03<+glx>but openttd-useful is built with vs140 so maybe it's just vs141
17:04<TrueBrain>glx: would you mind installing something like libpng with vcpkg, and see what that does to your binary size of OpenTTD?
17:04<TrueBrain>if any change at all etc?
17:04<TrueBrain>lol; now I get unresolved external symbols :D fdopen, strncpy, etc :D
17:04<TrueBrain>so MT is correct for the origin set I tried ..
17:04<TrueBrain>this is a bit weird
17:04<TrueBrain>could you try locally by any chance?
17:06<+glx>ok cloned vspkg
17:06<+glx>let's try
17:07<TrueBrain>to install the static versions
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17:10<TrueBrain>and I downloaded openttd-useful now, and put those libraries in there
17:10<TrueBrain>see if that changes anything
17:10<TrueBrain>they dont link :D
17:11<+glx>I hate when a tool changes the font size ;)
17:12<+glx>and powershell is not smart enough to add the .exe when I just type vcpkg
17:12<TrueBrain>silly :D
17:13<TrueBrain>okay, the include-files also changed ..
17:14<TrueBrain>-R, nope; -Recursive, nope ... hmm .. -Recurse? YES!
17:14<+glx>A suitable version of git was not found (required v2.16.2). Downloading portable git v2.16.2...
17:14<TrueBrain>fukcing dialects
17:14<+glx>and I'm in git-shell
17:14<TrueBrain>older version? :)
17:14<+glx>ie the powershell opened via github
17:15<andythenorth>SPRITE_STACK works on purchase menu, right?
17:15<TrueBrain>@roll dice
17:15<TrueBrain>grr @ donar
17:15<TrueBrain>donar? Sorry
17:15<TrueBrain>grr @ DorpsGek
17:15<TrueBrain>trigger-happy-enter-key :(
17:16<TrueBrain>cannot find sprintf
17:17<+glx>ah yes git-shell has 2.11.0
17:17<TrueBrain>seems I cannot link against openttd-useful
17:17<TrueBrain>should that work, with vs141?
17:17<+glx>ok installed, let's check the sizes
17:18<TrueBrain>is anyone using VS2017? :D
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17:18<+glx>-a---- 26/04/2018 23:16 2027948 libpng16.lib
17:18<+glx>-a---- 26/04/2018 23:15 424940 zlib.lib
17:18<+glx>similar to yours I think
17:18<TrueBrain>what does compiling against those do for your openttd.exe?
17:18<TrueBrain>and what VS do you use?
17:19<+glx>I use community 2015
17:20<TrueBrain>well, that at least means you can confirm if it is vcpkg, or 2017 indeed :D
17:20<TrueBrain>so far it seems to be vcpkg :)
17:20<TrueBrain>but yeah .. from what I can tell, openttd-useful, latest, doesn't work with VS2017 ..
17:21<@orudge>I wasn't able to get it to work
17:22<@orudge>I've been through pretty much what you've been doing tonight
17:22<TrueBrain>legacy_stdio_definitions.lib is needed :D
17:22<@orudge>Think I eventually got something building after disabling ICU and installing the other packages with vcpkg
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17:23<TrueBrain>I got it to compile; it is just huge when static
17:23<TrueBrain>(and it even runs)
17:23<TrueBrain>but .. ICU 57 :)
17:24<TrueBrain>okay .. I did not install the 140 toolset
17:24<TrueBrain>so I cannot try if that changes anything
17:24<TrueBrain>I could install them; just takes for-ever ..
17:25<TrueBrain>let me see .. what other things did I pick ..
17:25<TrueBrain>8.1 SDK
17:25<TrueBrain>.NET 4 (instead of 4.6)
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17:26<TrueBrain>Universal CRT SDK
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17:35<+glx>rebuilt openttd and it's still 13.4MB
17:36<TrueBrain>cool; so it is 2017 ..
17:36<TrueBrain>Optimization is set to Full
17:36<TrueBrain>what is the setting in the project for Size?
17:36<+glx>but I'm not sure it used the vcpkg build
17:37<TrueBrain>remove the openttd-useful files :P (or rename them ;))
17:38<TrueBrain>manual say /O1 and /O2, but those are invalid values
17:38<Zuu>Oh... I forgot to add to the script changelog. I knew I forgot something. Now how do I fix this in git?
17:38<TrueBrain>it is now Full .. which is also not in the documentation
17:38<TrueBrain>Zuu: git commit --amend and git rebase -i upstream/master, depending
17:39<TrueBrain>some really good guides about this stuff on the interwebz :)
17:39<TrueBrain>amend works for only the last patch
17:39<TrueBrain>rebase -i for any other
17:39<TrueBrain>git push -f, to force push your update
17:39<Zuu>I'm sure there is a solution. I just need to learn how.
17:40<TrueBrain>and of course, git GUIs :)
17:40<Zuu>I also have a paperback git book.
17:40<TrueBrain>glx: any hints what the correct entry for Optimization could be? :D
17:41<Zuu>hm.. no it was an e-book.
17:41<+glx>hmm can't find libpng.lib
17:41<+glx>so it doesn't use vcpkg one
17:42<peter1138>I'm using 2017, but with the useful pack obvs
17:42<TrueBrain>peter1138: doesn't link for me without modifications
17:42<TrueBrain>sprintf is no longer available, only with legacy settings on it is
17:42<TrueBrain>(and openttd-useful is compiled with them)
17:42<peter1138>Odd, no issues here.
17:43<TrueBrain>anyway, can either of you please tell me what /O1 is in the project file?
17:43<TrueBrain>the Optimization entry?
17:43<TrueBrain>fucking crap documentation :(
17:43<TrueBrain>ah! MinSpace!
17:44<TrueBrain>after guess 200111 I finally guessed right ...
17:44<peter1138>I don't know what O1 is.
17:45<TrueBrain>its in the dropdown on the UI :)
17:45<TrueBrain>but I dont have an UI :(
17:46<TrueBrain>good news about OSX: seems the new build fixes issues people having :D \o/ :)
17:49<peter1138>New build?
17:49<TrueBrain>the builds I can now make with the new docker
17:49<TrueBrain>night Wolf01
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17:49<peter1138>Are they published somewhere then?
17:49<TrueBrain>experimental, yes
17:50<TrueBrain>okay, MinSpace doesnt change the binary size :P
17:51<Zuu>If I did push my faulty commits, I should not use rebase? Instead I should make a new branch? (I have two commits and want to change the first one)
17:51<TrueBrain>new branch means new PR, which is annoying :D
17:52<TrueBrain>(I did already mention that above :P)
17:52<Zuu>But git help page says I should not rewrite public history
17:52<TrueBrain>yes; they say a lot of things :)
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17:52<TrueBrain>and strictly seen, they are correct
17:52<TrueBrain>just lets not assume someone forked your work :P
17:52<TrueBrain>(otherwise they will be pissed I guess)
17:53<TrueBrain>if there is only 1 commit in your PR you are fixing, you can just commit your fixes as new patches
17:53<peter1138>Ish. It's not hard for them to rebase either.
17:53<TrueBrain>but as you had 2 commits in your PR, you have to rebase
17:53<TrueBrain>peter1138: seeing the rants I have gotten for forcing rebase of OpenTTD, I am not sure that is true :P
17:54<peter1138>Yeah, I guess it's tricky if they've been merging bits all over the place.
17:54<Zuu>Now ... this works (rebase -i upstream/master, with the new change as a third commit that I moved and squashed)
17:55<TrueBrain>now a push will tell you: OMG YOU REWROTE HISTORY WHAT ARE YOU DOING
17:55<TrueBrain>so you just tell him: -f :)
17:55<Zuu>Just did :-)
17:55<TrueBrain>worked perfectly :)
17:55<peter1138>TrueBrain, yeah, LC_ALL=C didn't solve anything.
17:56<peter1138>Already tried that ;p
17:56<TrueBrain>peter1138: it does solve any locale issue
17:56<TrueBrain>all I was saying :P
17:56<peter1138>Ok. It's not a locale issue :-)
17:57<TrueBrain>okay, disabled tons of stuff in the MSVC project, binary stays HUGE
17:57<Zuu>Oh and I think this whole OpenTTD moving to git is a good thing by the way.
17:57<TrueBrain>it ... just .. doesnt .. want ... to .. shrink ...
17:57<peter1138>pkzip it :D
17:58<TrueBrain>Zuu: I think so too :D
17:58<TrueBrain>peter1138: yeah .. well, it is not the size itself that worries me
17:58<TrueBrain>just to huge jump of 100%
17:58<TrueBrain>the Mac OS X is also this size
17:59<peter1138>Using useful is out the question I guess.
17:59<peter1138>Hmm, what's this other thing you used then? Maybe I can try it and see what I get.
17:59<TrueBrain>supplied by Microsoft :D
17:59<peter1138>What do I have to do to invoke that?
17:59<peter1138>I'm too lazy to look anything up :p
18:00<TrueBrain>follow README
18:00<peter1138>My brain is frazzled already from trying to get jenkins/warnings/gendarme to work.
18:02<TrueBrain>peter1138: and I am not against openttd-useful; it is only a very old solution for an old problem :) Migrating to a modern solution does have my preference
18:03<TrueBrain>(as I have been doing with the linux and OSX targets too)
18:03<peter1138>TrueBrain, I agree.
18:03<peter1138>I have no idea who compiled it, what versions are in there, etc...
18:03<TrueBrain>it just means I am grumpy while figuring out what the heck it is doing :P
18:03<TrueBrain>there is also a -source package, which has the 'what versions' question
18:03<TrueBrain>and Rb compiled it :) No clue which VS :P
18:03<TrueBrain>I did try to keep the loop as close as possible :)
18:05<TrueBrain>disabled GL, disabled other optimizations, MinSpace, etc .. no change in binary size
18:05<TrueBrain>so I guess it is really the libraries
18:06<peter1138>Well, that's installed cmake...
18:06<TrueBrain>most of vcpkg is done via cmake
18:06<TrueBrain>so much easier than a weird project file
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause>why does it need to be static?
18:14<TrueBrain>no; compiling against DLLs is even more of a pain
18:14<TrueBrain>both in distribution as in telling people about them .....
18:14<TrueBrain>we used to do it with SDL.dll .. ugh ..
18:18<TrueBrain>okay, I ran out of ideas :(
18:18<TrueBrain>tomorrow I will build x86, see what that does
18:18<TrueBrain>and I want to figure out how to run regressions again (totally forgot)
18:19<peter1138>"All installed libraries are immediately ready to be #include'd and used in your project without additional configuration"
18:19<TrueBrain>means I at least can fix the CI ..
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have something useful to contribute here
18:19<peter1138>Apparently not ;(
18:19<TrueBrain>peter1138: ghehe, I had the same :D
18:19<TrueBrain>did you install the static version?
18:19<peter1138>I, er, what?
18:19<TrueBrain>vcpkg install zlib:x64-windows-static
18:19<TrueBrain>installs the static version
18:20<TrueBrain>either way, you can control if vcpkg is loaded in your projects by two settings
18:20<TrueBrain>VcpkgEnabled (enables it, no shit)
18:20<TrueBrain>VcpkgTriplet, this sets what version to use .. x64-windows, x64-windows-static, etc
18:20<TrueBrain>this part is a bit poorly documented
18:20<TrueBrain>no clue how it works with an UI :D
18:21<peter1138>what's the magic to install icu 57?
18:21<TrueBrain>open the ports file, change 61 to 57, (a few times .. 6 or so? I just used sed)
18:21<TrueBrain>install icu, it yells that the sha no longer matches .. copy the sha in the ports file
18:21<peter1138>oh dear
18:21<TrueBrain>and this will become more and more a problem
18:22<TrueBrain>and ICU 57 is the last one with Layout
18:22<TrueBrain>and it is deprecated
18:22<peter1138>so nothing actually useful like "-version 57" :(
18:22<peter1138>hmm, isn't Layout all we use it for?
18:22<TrueBrain>owh, no
18:22<TrueBrain>no, we use ICU for more
18:22<TrueBrain>but the Layout is the issue
18:22<TrueBrain>ICU stopped doing that
18:22<TrueBrain>we really really have to replace it soon
18:22<TrueBrain>the next Debian cannot be compiled
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18:23<peter1138>pango is easy to install with this
18:23<peter1138>but shit, that's a ton of dependencies.
18:23<TrueBrain>Ubuntu 18.04 won't work either
18:23<peter1138>oh well, if it's static no matter
18:23<TrueBrain>so the preasure to get pango done is getting higher and higher :)
18:23<peter1138>Has anyone started it?
18:23<TrueBrain>no clue
18:24<TrueBrain>but 18.04 is ICU 60 ..
18:24<TrueBrain>so yeah, we are in a bit of shit when 18.04 hits the market :)
18:24<TrueBrain>as I think many Linux users use that :)
18:24<peter1138>static build ;)
18:25<peter1138>distribute openttd as a docker image lol
18:25<peter1138>hmm, i don't actually know what we use icu for
18:25<peter1138>so converting it to pango won't be easy for me
18:26<TrueBrain>something to do with fonts, I have been told :P
18:26<peter1138>if it's even possible
18:26<TrueBrain>but freetype and fontconfig? Dunno
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18:26<TrueBrain>I have been told there is a drop-in replacement
18:27<peter1138>a quick look at pango docs and it seems tightly coupled to gdk, which ... we don't use.
18:27<TrueBrain>ICU suggests using HarfBuzz .. no clue what that is :D
18:28<peter1138>interesting link at the bottom
18:29<TrueBrain>they have icu-le-hb
18:29<TrueBrain>that is a drop-in replacement
18:30<TrueBrain>Google as copyright holder
18:30<peter1138>Damn, no port for that
18:31<TrueBrain>there is for HarfBuzz?
18:31<TrueBrain>that is something I guess
18:31<peter1138>It's a dependency of pango
18:31<TrueBrain>I am guessing you want to vendor icu-le-hb anyway
18:32<TrueBrain>mainly as it should be a temporary thing :)
18:32<TrueBrain>either way, from what I understood, we use ICU for other things too .. so it would still mean we need ICU :P
18:32<TrueBrain>just no clue about any of that :)
18:33<peter1138>Indeed. I just know all randomly appeared "one day"
18:33<peter1138>Wasn't there when I implemented freetype :)
18:34<TrueBrain>but okay ... tomorrow Windows binary for 32bit/64bit .. getting it linked to CI ..
18:34<TrueBrain>than I guess I have to try mingw32 and mingw64
18:34<TrueBrain>or only the latter
18:34<TrueBrain>and link that to CI
18:34<TrueBrain>than I have to fix a new supybot ..
18:34<TrueBrain>as I want to say: bot, make release
18:34<TrueBrain>and that it makes a releasefor a PR
18:34<TrueBrain>as I want to test some of those .......
18:35<peter1138>i guess compile farm is all separate to CI?
18:35<TrueBrain>the CI dockers can also create release binaries
18:35<TrueBrain>(in fact, they do, just not publish them)
18:36<TrueBrain>peter1138: but if you have VS2017, possibly you can try all libraries except icu from vcpkg, and icu from openttd-useful
18:36<TrueBrain>and see what your release binary size does
18:36<peter1138>that's my plan :-)
18:36<TrueBrain>any additional information of VS2015 / VS2017 with any combination would seriously help
18:37<peter1138>dmusic hmm
18:37<TrueBrain>as currently I have no clue if this is optimizations against speed, or just something being dipshit crazy
18:37<TrueBrain>64bit doesnt need dmusic
18:37<TrueBrain>so if you need dmusic, you are doing the wrong target :D
18:37<TrueBrain>but I am off to bed :) Tnx both peter1138 and glx :)
18:37<peter1138>vcpkg does 32 bit default and i couldn't be arsed to change it :p
18:37<TrueBrain>vcpkg install libpng:x64-windows-static :)
18:38<TrueBrain>anyway, night :)
18:39<peter1138>wonder if you can put vcpkg install in the project :p
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 27 00:00:47 2018