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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-05-01

---Logopened Tue May 01 00:00:52 2018
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01:56<Eddi|zuHause>what's the git equivalent of "hg pull -u"?
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04:13<Pikka>shhh
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04:21<Pikka>gadzooks!
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04:31<Wolf01>Moin
04:31<peter1138>Hello
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04:40<Wolf01>o/
04:40<andythenorth>hi Wolf01
04:40<Wolf01>Eh, lego arctic stuff is nice, your son is right, you must buy it :P
04:41<andythenorth>not showed him yet
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06:07<peter1138>Buy it. For me.
06:18<peter1138>Hmm, silly spec, refer to a 4-byte header, to encode the message length.
06:19<peter1138>But actually the length is 'encoded' as a text string, so "0020" would be a 20 character message.
06:19<peter1138>It is technically 4 bytes, but...
06:20<peter1138>Anyone actually use mouse-wheel map scrolling?
06:23<nielsm>maybe someone who's actually using a trackpad would
06:23<nielsm>I can imagine two-finder scrolling on a trackpad making sense for it
06:23<nielsm>two-finger*
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06:24<peter1138>andythenorth would know
06:25<andythenorth>I turned on trackpad scroll yesterday
06:25<andythenorth>it's great
06:25<peter1138>Hmm, shame my Mac died, mind you it wouldn't be running the current version anyway.
06:25<andythenorth>I couldn't use it before beacuse broken
06:25<peter1138>How does it work? Two fingers?
06:26<andythenorth>yes
06:26<andythenorth>left and right
06:26<peter1138>Err
06:26<andythenorth>(it scrolls left and right)
06:26<andythenorth>and up and down
06:27*andythenorth should type better
06:27<andythenorth>or not irc and RL talk
06:31<peter1138>Oh right.
06:31<peter1138>Hmm
06:31<peter1138>Well
06:32<peter1138>Does it work with scrollbars too?
06:32<andythenorth>in-game, yes
06:32<andythenorth>it works with anything that would respond to mousewheel scroll
06:32<peter1138>Hmm, do we have horizontal scrollbars?
06:33<peter1138>Think so :p
06:33<andythenorth>and on OS X you can shift-mousewheel for horizontal scroll, which it simulates
06:33<peter1138>Hmm
06:33<peter1138>See, the issue is this feature is only supported for OS X.
06:33<peter1138>Which seems nuts.
06:33<peter1138>So I've got it sort of working on Windows, but I can't really compare how it works.
06:34<peter1138>Plus I've only got a mouse, with the awkward push the scrollwheel left/right action, which is shitty.
06:37<andythenorth>I can see the problem
06:37<andythenorth>can't think of any suggestions though :P
06:37<peter1138>Actually, I'm dumb. I have a laptop.
06:37<peter1138>Oh, but it runs Linux.
06:38<peter1138>Also kinda old, so may not understand 2 fingers anyway.
06:39<andythenorth>had a Sony years ago with some magic bit of trackpad that was the scroll track
06:39<andythenorth>nice theory
06:39<peter1138>Yeah, annoying.
06:40<peter1138>I had one machine where it behaved differently depending on the driver, which sort of makes sense.
06:40<peter1138>Hmm, Logitech stopped selling their standalone trackpad.
06:41<peter1138>T650.
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07:22<peter1138>Hmm, seems it was non-standard anyway, so anything that may work wouldn't mean much :p
07:29<peter1138>Hmm, could do it with SDL as well. Scroll-left and -right are mapped to buttons there.
07:33<andythenorth>o_O
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07:34<peter1138>Not quite the same thing, I'm sure :p
07:39<nielsm>someone will complain that scrolling will be in steps and not smooth, or similar
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07:58<Wolf01>https://i2.wp.com/farm1.staticflickr.com/902/40733658865_da9294cff7_z.jpg?resize=625%2C414&ssl=1 andythenorth: ship
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>what would you use that for, in terms of gameplay?
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08:15<V453000>FOR SHIPPING
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08:28<andythenorth>Wolf01: supplies ship
08:28<andythenorth>not in Sam yet :P
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11:48<Pikka>andythenorth, otoh: https://i.imgur.com/z9E2PjI.png
11:48<andythenorth>Pikka: also cute
11:49<andythenorth>also brake vans on pax trains? o_O
11:50<Pikka>only under exceptional circumstances :)
11:51<Pikka>did you see one?
11:52<andythenorth>pink train 2 http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9029/such%20civil.png
11:52<andythenorth>also I really like the trains they're building
11:54<Pikka>:D
11:54<andythenorth>they make correct choices so far
11:58<Pikka>and a lot of passenger trains for an AI that doesn't build passenger trains yet :)
12:01<andythenorth>ha
12:02<andythenorth>it's got full-load and no-load orders :P
12:02<andythenorth>makes money though
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12:06<Pikka>normally, it only transports cargos to industries which produce food, goods or nothing. But when it's building a second line into a terminus, it considers all cargos that the station accepts, instead of just what the "target" industry accepts. So you get emergent behaviour, like collecting passengers from FIRS hotels. :)
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12:07<andythenorth>tidy
12:09<Pikka>as for the brake vans, its definition is a wagon which carries nothing, and can go as fast as the wagons. So if the brakevan has a lower maximum speed than the passenger cars, it shouldn't build it.
12:10<@Alberth>a non-braking brakevan :)
12:19<andythenorth>brakevan has no speed limit
12:19<andythenorth>because reasons
12:20<Pikka>yarr
12:20<Pikka>of course, when it builds "real" passenger trains, no brakevans :) but that can wait
12:20<andythenorth>well emergent behaviour is fun
12:20<andythenorth>glad I didn't start an AI :P
12:20<andythenorth>I'd be completely lost to the world
12:28<Pikka>it's quite a rabbit hole
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12:53<frosch123>https://github.com/frosch123/bananas2/blob/master/docs/data.md <- done with barfing, now finally some coding
12:54<frosch123>TrueBrain: feel free to throw GDPR at it :)
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13:07<nielsm>time to put the CI to work again
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13:14<nielsm>just replaced the HEPA filter in my air cleaner, the old filter felt much heavier than the new so I weighed them
13:15<nielsm>appears the old filter had collected about 100 grams of tine particles over the past year
13:16<nielsm>I'm glad I have that running, after getting that number
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14:07<andythenorth>well
14:09<Wolf01>yes
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14:39<+michi_cc>nielsm: Got an access violation at win32_m.cpp:89 (midiOutLongMsg) on the first TransmitSysexConst in Start
14:40<nielsm>huh
14:40<nielsm>what os and midi driver?
14:41<nielsm>also debug or release build?
14:41<TrueBrain>lol @ frosch123 .. you had some fun writing that, didn't you?
14:42<frosch123>i used it to add details to the table layout :)
14:42<TrueBrain>frosch123: I can already tell you Person.name has to be changed in the Delete category: no, anominized only
14:43<+michi_cc>nielsm: Debug, VS2017, Win10, 64-bit
14:43<TrueBrain>which can exist next to "invisible" btw
14:44<nielsm>I have no idea how it should be able to fail, that part
14:45<TrueBrain>frosch123: I would rename 'pending' into 'draft', as pending sounds like some system is stillw orking on it
14:46<nielsm>actually, let me see if I can make a 64 bit build myself
14:46<frosch123>TrueBrain: is the username so special? we have to keep account names to make banning effective, so how much more value is there in usernames?
14:46<nielsm>last I tried that the compiler crashed with an internal error
14:46<+michi_cc>nielsm: I would suggest re-reading the docs for midiOutPrepareHeader, especially the part about what to set before calling it (and not after).
14:46<TrueBrain>frosch123: and will read it in more detail in the weekend; but your promise made me giggle :D
14:46<nielsm>(VS2015)
14:46<frosch123>TrueBrain: :p
14:46<TrueBrain>frosch123: Person.name != Person.username :)
14:46<TrueBrain>we also track peoples real name, in general
14:46<frosch123>well, it's not supposed to be a real name
14:47<TrueBrain>our other systems do, hence the jump there
14:47<TrueBrain>there is also an idoligy behind that: if you are asked for your real name and username, you are much less likely to use your real name in your username, by accident etc
14:48<TrueBrain>possibly nice to make 'show my real name' / 'show my nickname'
14:48<TrueBrain>but okay, if you meant username/nickname, sure
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14:48<nielsm>michi_cc oh I see
14:49<+michi_cc>nielsm: I.e. if I modify TransmitSysex accordingly, it doesn't crash :)
14:49<nielsm>I guess it's a difference in 32 bit and 64 bit mmsystem
14:50<nielsm>with 32 bit being more lax
14:52<TrueBrain>frosch123: come to think of it, even for nicknames I think it would be nice .. storing that for ever seems silly
14:52<TrueBrain>and how would it make banning any more or less effective
14:52<TrueBrain>?
14:53<TrueBrain>I think banning should be done on the link to that Person. Which we store, for, say, 3 months
14:53<TrueBrain>(we cannot ban someone for life btw; but that is just the fine-print)
14:53<frosch123>if a person registers with their github account
14:53<frosch123>i want to ban that github account
14:53<frosch123>so i need to store the github login name
14:54<nielsm>let me just try to make a 64 bit build again...
14:54<TrueBrain>so we ban that github account; we can still change Person.name into 'banned' :)
14:54<TrueBrain>but we can blacklist the link data
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14:56<TrueBrain>either way, have to read it with more attention to really comment :) Too sleepy tonight for that :)
14:56<frosch123>thanks anyway :)
14:57<+michi_cc>frosch123: Any comment on the open review thing (if formatting) at https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6767 ?
14:58*andythenorth opts out of processing
14:58<frosch123>michi_cc: i would write it on the same line, but i also deliberately ignored that on some other PR, just to not annoy with details :)
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14:59<frosch123>just "\n" without "{" is forbidden
15:00<nielsm>michi_cc I can't reprouce the crash, but I see it's wrong per MSDN so preparing fix :)
15:05<nielsm>anything else?
15:23<+michi_cc>nielsm: I can hear music :p
15:24<Pikka>uhoh
15:24<frosch123>call the cops
15:25<nielsm>sounds good?
15:25<nielsm>:)
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15:30<+michi_cc>nielsm: It sounds like always (which is good here) on the bog standard windows synth.
15:31<andythenorth>Pikka: these AIs are very civil
15:32<Pikka>is that a good thing?
15:33<andythenorth>yes, but not as a spectator sport
15:33<andythenorth>if they were more aggressive in gameplay it would be boring
15:33<andythenorth>but I am just watching :P
15:33<andythenorth>oh this is like the Godwin rule for UK grfs https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1206345#p1206345
15:34<Pikka>:) I was going to say
15:34<nielsm>michi_cc: I suppose the more interesting testing would be whether it also works as well on less powerful machines and on older versions of windows
15:34<nielsm>but I don't really have any setup to test that myself
15:34<nielsm>but I _think_ I've limited API calls to things present back to win95
15:36<nielsm>there, pushed the midiOutPrepareHeader fix
15:36<+glx>hard to say as MSDN info about minimum version is not really accurate now
15:37<nielsm>unfortunately yes :(
15:37<+michi_cc>Windows 2000 can most of the time be read as Win 9x, too.
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15:38<andythenorth>actually it's a bit less civil about RVs :)
15:39<nielsm>the thing I'm most unsure about re. compatibility might be timeSetEvent with callback function, and second place are the critical section things
15:39<+glx>but I think midiOut stuff was already in win9x, for low level access
15:40<nielsm>yes that api dates back to windows 3.0 afaik
15:41<nielsm>https://archive.org/details/msdncds <- this might be useful!
15:41<+glx>I had one in VB4 time
15:45<nielsm>I'll download the october 2001 version and install it on my WinMe retro pc
15:46<+glx>I'm checking in mingw winapi to see if there are guards around the functions
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15:47<+michi_cc>Japanese MSDN says Win95: https://msdn.microsoft.com/ja-jp/library/cc428796.aspx
15:48<nielsm>cool
15:49<andythenorth>hey look http://pikka.users.tt-forums.net/wiki/index.php?title=EE_GT3
15:49<andythenorth>somebody did it already :P
15:49<+glx>it's crazy how having boost slows the search in files
15:49<Pikka>scuddles, what a surprise
15:50<andythenorth>scuddles is a mystery to me
15:51<Pikka>haven't spoken to him for a while... mostly because I'm never online on steam any more
15:53<+glx>nielsm: critical section seems ok too
15:55<andythenorth>shall I tell SYL there's a GT 3 in UKRS 3 o_O
15:55<andythenorth>would be rude not to include it
15:55<Pikka>yuck
15:56<andythenorth>it's not so bad, it's just 'why?'
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17:03<nielsm>in case anyone vetoes my PR for removing the dmusic driver, I have an alternate patch ready that adds reliable volume control to it instead ;)
17:04<nielsm>and now, goodnight
17:05<nielsm>vacation is over for me
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17:43<Wolf01>'night
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19:44<peter1138>argh
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---Logclosed Wed May 02 00:00:54 2018