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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-05-15

---Logopened Tue May 15 00:00:12 2018
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00:22<supermop>yo
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01:25<andythenorth>o/
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02:10<peter1138>hi
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02:16<andythenorth>lo peter1138
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03:59<peter1138>larks
04:07<LordAro>lorks
04:09<peter1138>Hmm, so.
04:20<LordAro>it has come to this
04:21<peter1138>I implemented HasBit() etc for std::bitset.
04:22*peter1138 gets rid of snap. It basically installs a partitioned ubuntu in /snap.
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04:26<peter1138>It's andy
04:34<andythenorth>nope
04:34<andythenorth>it's a bot
04:35<LordAro>beep boop
04:35<peter1138>Oh!
04:36<peter1138>Hmm, my jenkins is not responding :S
04:36<peter1138>Ah, finally.
04:41<andythenorth>CeCe Peniston?
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04:59<peter1138>PENISton
05:01<peter1138>LordAro, hmm, so your PR fails ;S
05:04<peter1138>Doesn't seem to show an error message though.
05:10-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
05:10<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> PENISton i'm sure nobody ever made this joke before
05:10<andythenorth>it's 25 years since I first heard it ;)
05:11<peter1138>I have the best jokes.
05:12<andythenorth>@seen pikka
05:12<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 0 hours, 55 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Pikka> not much sup... heading out in a minute
05:12<peter1138>Also, make regression shows that I broke AIs.
05:13*andythenorth ponders 'fund random industry' button
05:13<andythenorth>for when there's too much money
05:14<andythenorth>or I could just click the fund menu with my eyes shut :P
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>throw dice?
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05:50<LordAro>peter1138: yeah, i'm not entirely sure what i broke
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05:55<peter1138>Dunno, but it highlighted that I hadn't catered for the AI when changing command bit packing.
05:55<peter1138>Maybe we should have accessors for DoCommand instead of calling it directly.
05:56<peter1138>I should finish other stuff first :p
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05:57<Eddi|zuHause>moar indirection!
06:04<peter1138>Ish. Compiler would most likely optimise it away.
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06:48<andythenorth>do I need giant boats?
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
07:01<andythenorth>currently they top out at 720t
07:01<andythenorth>FIRS has industries at 1500t / month
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>that's still only 2 ships per month
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>and there's no space restriction on ships
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07:07<peter1138>Yet :)
07:08<andythenorth>anything bigger doesn't fit in canals
07:08<andythenorth>or throws out the relative scale
07:10<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Yet :) <-- as we discuss that for about 10 years already...
07:12<peter1138>It's a very long yet.
07:13<andythenorth>I learnt to think about 5 years as 'not very long' :P
07:14<andythenorth>min. time to get anything done in software is about 1 year
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07:25<Eddi|zuHause>well, anything that is not done in 10 minutes
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>(+ 30 minutes waiting for the computer to be ready to take your input)
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09:02<peter1138>LordAro, how did you test PR 6781? OpenTTD segfaults on start for me.
09:02<LordAro>interesting
09:02<LordAro>pretty sure it ran for me
09:03<peter1138>It segfaults before it gets to main()
09:04<peter1138>strlen is wrong, because those are all compiletime, not runtime.
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09:19<LordAro>except the ones that are not
09:20<LordAro>which is what the warning was about (mostly baseset::ini_set
09:20<LordAro>)
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09:47<peter1138>LordAro, our saveload code checks that lengthof is the size of a pointer.
09:47<peter1138>lengthof is defined, it's just not the runtime string length.
09:48<LordAro>hrm
09:48<LordAro>so OTTD performs the check the compiler is warning about and acts accordingly?
09:50<peter1138>I guess.
09:50<peter1138>I don't have that version to test :p
09:51<peter1138>I don't know what your compiler is warning about.
09:51<peter1138>We define lengthof ourselves in stdafx
09:51<LordAro>yeah
09:51<peter1138>Maybe it's being "helpful" and overriding it?
09:51<LordAro>lemme find the output
09:51<peter1138>sizeof(x) / sizeof(x[0])
09:51<LordAro>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puwxwq4az?/puwxwq4az
09:52<LordAro>yeah, it's warning about dividing by sizeof of pointer type
09:52<LordAro>(line 500ish)
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09:57<peter1138>The correct solution may just be sizeof() instead of lengthof()
09:57<peter1138>sizeof/lengthof is the same for strings, because each element is only a byte anyway.
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09:59<LordAro>unless it's a pointer type instead of an array type
09:59<peter1138>LordAro, https://gist.github.com/PeterN/bcd30b9b68c3fe105eb157c874a1e146
09:59<LordAro>which is the issue here
10:01<peter1138>Try with sizeof instead of lengthof in the same places.
10:01<peter1138>Should be fine.
10:02<peter1138>But yeah, this is not runtime, hence strlen will not work.
10:02<SpComb>this sounds like a fun discussion
10:03<peter1138>And wouldn't work on loading, because the strlen of the current value is not relevant.
10:03<LordAro>indeed so
10:03<LordAro>but i'm not convinced sizeof/lengthof is the correct solution either
10:04<peter1138>Well, this is something that has worked since forever.
10:05<LordAro>i'd want to look at this "saveload code checks that lengthof is the size of a pointer" bit
10:06<LordAro>i'll look later this evening
10:06<peter1138>return sld->size == sizeof(void *) || sld->size == sld->length;
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10:10<peter1138>Also, SLE_VAR_STR is for pointers
10:11<peter1138>SLE_VAR_STRB is for arrays
10:11<peter1138>So basically the code knows. lengthof/sizeof are interchangeable here except for your new warning.
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10:22<LordAro>mm
10:22<LordAro>need to reevaluate anyway
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11:02<peter1138>He's back.
11:03<andythenorth>yes he's back
11:03<andythenorth>back again
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11:23<Eddi|zuHause>shady's back
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14:24<andythenorth>hmm
14:24<andythenorth>Iron Horse is a lot of trains to draw :P
14:24<andythenorth>much regret :)
14:25<frosch123>how many people would notice when the graphics are the same once the train leaves the depot?
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14:37<V453000>LOL
14:37<V453000>:D
14:37<V453000>proper grafix idea frosch123
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: a value less than "all" but more than "none"
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15:13<andythenorth>frosch123: in the / \ views, people wouldn't notice
15:13<andythenorth>and definitely not the | view
15:13<frosch123>so you are done?
15:13<andythenorth>horse is deceptively playable, because I'm drawing it over Horse 1 sprites :P
15:14<frosch123>you already have the --- sprites
15:14<andythenorth>if I fixed all the broken offsets, nobody might ever notice :P
15:14<andythenorth>there was some grf with alignment vehicles?
15:14<frosch123>if you wait for people to notice you also get feedback which engines are used :p
15:14<andythenorth>is there any chance we could (a) find out why the sprite aligner is broken and (b) fix it?
15:14<frosch123>there is debugveh on bananas
15:15<andythenorth>the numbers sprite aligner displays have no obvious connection to those in the grf
15:15<frosch123>remove the "-c" option from nml
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>that's how modern game development works? you work around the biggest bugs and then ship it, hoping nobody notices the smaller ones?
15:15<frosch123>no cropping, bigger grf, same offsets
15:15<andythenorth>frosch123: can I do that permanently? Or do I have to piss around with a makefile arg? :)
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's not meant for "permanent", just debugging purposes
15:16<andythenorth>so I have to manually edit the makefile every time? o_O
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and you can just "alias nmlc=nmlc -c" or something
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>possibly with some ''
15:18<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: how would that work?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
15:19<andythenorth>-c takes 6.1MB down to 5.2MB
15:19<frosch123>andythenorth: don't you already have a variable for the fork bomb?
15:19<andythenorth>so not critical, but worth it
15:19<andythenorth>I have a var for the fork bomb yes
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>another option is if the makefile is prepared with an "NMLCARGS" variable, you can do "NMLCARGS=-c make"
15:20<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that is the wrong way around
15:20<andythenorth>or I just do this once, fix the offsets, restore -c I guess
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>both should work?
15:20<frosch123>you want a variable to disable "-c", not to enable it
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>ah
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
15:20<andythenorth>or I have 'make bundle_tar' use -c
15:21<andythenorth>and plain 'make' doesn't
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: maybe there should be a "--no-crop" option?
15:22<andythenorth>I thought there was? o_O
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>that overrides a "-c" option
15:29<andythenorth>so I removed -c but the offsets are still odd
15:29*andythenorth investigates
15:29<frosch123>are they multiplied by 4?
15:30<frosch123>i don't remember whether we display 1x or 4x offsets or both or depending on zoom level
15:30<frosch123>maybe it's also the gui zoom setting
15:33<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9045/offsets_eh.png
15:34<andythenorth>oh yes
15:34<andythenorth>you concluded same, they're multiplied by 4
15:34*andythenorth was busy making screenshots :P
15:34<andythenorth>UI zoom level doesn't seem to affect them
15:35<frosch123>ok, so we only show 4x. i guess you closed some feature requests about showing 1x offsets :p
15:36<andythenorth>'oops'
15:36<andythenorth>fix, or I just divide by 4?
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15:39<peter1138>Hmm
15:40<peter1138>Is the sprite aligner wrong then?
15:41<V453000>haha offset bullshit
15:41<frosch123>peter1138: it's fine if you do 4x sprites :)
15:41<frosch123>but 1x people are confused
15:41<peter1138>As everyone should!
15:42<peter1138>Judging by that bounding box, those offsets are wrong anyway.
15:42<V453000>GG :D
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15:45<andythenorth>they are wrong :P
15:45<andythenorth>if they were right...I would be talking about something interesting
15:45<andythenorth>like how many railtypes we can have
15:52<peter1138>3
15:53<frosch123>there should be an option to pick which 3 railtypes to use: if you want elrail you can choose to merge monorail into maglev or maglev into monorail
15:54<peter1138>:)
15:54<frosch123>if i would post that on the forums, noone would understand it :)
15:55<andythenorth>doesn't 3 waste half a bit? o_O
15:55<andythenorth>we could use that for something else maybe? o_O
15:56<peter1138>3rd rail
15:57<frosch123>andythenorth: https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/UnifiedMaglev
15:58<andythenorth>wow new things
15:58<andythenorth>10 years of playing ottd is not enough
15:58<andythenorth>today I found you can ctrl-click on the station name a vehicle is heading for
15:59<andythenorth>(in the main vehicle window)
15:59<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden :)
16:01<andythenorth>boringly, I know most of them :P
16:01<andythenorth>"Show vehicle load and capacity of multiple vehicles" is new to me though
16:01<peter1138>Yeah we never copied that unified maglev feature from ttdpatch...
16:01<frosch123>it's the unique ctrl+right click, i take full responsibility for that :)
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16:04<andythenorth>that's just to troll mac users
16:04<andythenorth>ctrl-click is a right click on mac os
16:06<peter1138>:p
16:06<frosch123>also notice that "ctrl click on engine in depot" says "reverse engine direction", not "switch livery" :p
16:07<peter1138>That'll be a bug report coming in soon then.
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16:09<andythenorth>failure demand
16:09<andythenorth>so the patch to incremement a counter (0-15) when ctrl-clicking...
16:09<peter1138>16 reversal states?
16:10<andythenorth>yes
16:10<frosch123>or 32?
16:10<andythenorth>A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B
16:10<andythenorth>8 liveries :P
16:10<andythenorth>probably needs shift-ctrl-click to decrement? o_O
16:10<frosch123>can you also long-click to morse code a specific livery number?
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16:12<V453000>:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
16:12<frosch123>andythenorth: how about a train configuration gui similar to grf parameter gui? :p
16:12<andythenorth>I like mystery clicking :P
16:12<V453000>It's so good to not be the only one trying to fuck over the specs to get some greater good (tm) functionality
16:12<andythenorth>it's very direct, even though you don't know what you're getting
16:12<V453000>thanks andythenorth
16:12<andythenorth>ctrl-clicking is fun
16:12<andythenorth>picking from dropdown menus is dull :P
16:17<frosch123>what if the dropdown would show the sprite? and what if the dropdown was no vertical list, but a circle?
16:17<andythenorth>well
16:17<andythenorth>does it include a unicorn :)
16:18<andythenorth>oops I meant slug :P
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: how about random liveries, but ctrl+click rerolls the random bits?
16:19<andythenorth>hmm
16:19<andythenorth>no :)
16:19<andythenorth>that would be good trolling though
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, that would simply be an UI change, instead of adding some mysterious counter thingie
16:20<frosch123>the other day i wondered about improving map compression by removing all tile random bits, and instead store the number of rerandomisations
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>which would involve changing vehicle storage code, GRF interface code, nfo specs and nml implementation
16:21*peter1138 tests with 255 railtypes.
16:21<andythenorth>imagine the abuses a counter could be put to
16:21<peter1138>std::bitset testing :p
16:22*andythenorth tries to remember how bitmasks work
16:22<frosch123>grf-defineable toolbar ribbons for "formatting" train appearance
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: rather add local storage registers for vehicles
16:22<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's more appealing to do something that isn't proper
16:22<andythenorth>it's a better meta-game
16:23<andythenorth>like html :P
16:23<frosch123>andythenorth: add livery wagons
16:23<frosch123>their purpose is to change the livery of the other vehicles in the chain
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but you can then have your counter by adding a callback that is called on ctrl+click, which reads the register, adds one, and writes the register back
16:23<peter1138>toolbar ribbons! but it doesn't need a spec cos modern language
16:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yes that would work
16:24<andythenorth>it's just a bit too correct
16:24<andythenorth>frosch123: the liveries I did already do that :P
16:24<andythenorth>kind of
16:24<peter1138>I think 64k railtypes is not possible.
16:24<frosch123>peter1138: did actually any software make good use of ribbons beyond office?
16:24<andythenorth>such sad news peter1138
16:24<andythenorth>the game will now die
16:24<peter1138>Not without extending the network command interface.
16:24<peter1138>frosch123, you suggest that was a good use of it?
16:25<andythenorth>is the ribbbon the toolbar at the top of my Word window?
16:25<frosch123>it added hierarchical hotkeys
16:25<frosch123>kind of like vim :p
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue what ribbons are in this context
16:25<frosch123>andythenorth: yes
16:25<andythenorth>so a ribbbon is a toolbar, but with MS marketing around it?
16:26<frosch123>a ribbon is a tabbed toolbar that megers classic toolbars and dropdown menus
16:26<peter1138>So std::bitset works.
16:27<peter1138>I cheated and defined HasBit/SetBit/ClrBit for bitsets, instead of modifying all the code elsewhere to use 'native' calls.
16:27<frosch123>are there std::bitsets in saveload code yet?
16:27<peter1138>Mainly because the existing HasBit compiles fine for bitsets, though won't work properly beyond 32 bit.
16:27<peter1138>No.
16:28<peter1138>railtypes is never stored.
16:28<frosch123>peter1138: i read using "std::begin(container)" is more modern than "container.begin()"
16:28<peter1138>Although there is a left over at the moment where it's loaded because it used to be stored. It should just be a CONDNULL.
16:28<peter1138>Sadly, I can't just commit a quick fix now ;(
16:28<frosch123>so is "HasBit(set)" more modern than "set.HasBit()"?
16:29<peter1138>Must be!
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16:57<andythenorth>is bed
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17:03<Eddi|zuHause>if it were python, set.HasBit() would be the same as HasBit(set)
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