| --- | Log | opened Sat May 26 00:00:27 2018 |
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| 03:20 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 03:36 | <peter1138> | yo |
| 03:36 | <peter1138> | TGP sucks for subtropic |
| 03:37 | <peter1138> | But I'm going out on the bike now. |
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| 03:40 | <andythenorth> | such raining |
| 03:41 | <andythenorth> | I probably shouldn't do a troll release of Horse 2 |
| 03:41 | <andythenorth> | just 6 metro trains :P |
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| 04:48 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 05:04 | <andythenorth> | hi Wolf01 |
| 05:04 | <andythenorth> | back of the Bugatti looks badass |
| 05:04 | * | andythenorth not into cars, but eh |
| 05:04 | <Wolf01> | I still hope it's not only aesthetics |
| 05:04 | <andythenorth> | car mechanisms are boring though no? |
| 05:05 | <andythenorth> | I doubt it has working brakes, the new parts look cosmetic not functional |
| 05:05 | <Wolf01> | Yeah, but making a complex shift and hide it under layers of bricks it's not in the spirit of technic |
| 05:06 | <andythenorth> | +1 |
| 05:11 | <Wolf01> | I modded the porsche to be able to take off the chassis and see what happens when you use the shift, and that's really cool because it resembles the old 853 |
| 05:11 | <Wolf01> | https://brickset.com/sets/853-1/Car-Chassis <- this one |
| 05:13 | <andythenorth> | I had this one https://brickset.com/sets/8860-1/Car-Chassis |
| 05:14 | <andythenorth> | boxer engine |
| 05:14 | <Wolf01> | Yeah, that too |
| 05:22 | <Wolf01> | Meh, I have too many games on steam, a lot of categories... |
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| 05:30 | <Wolf01> | Quak |
| 05:31 | <frosch123> | moo |
| 05:33 | <Wolf01> | \o/ finished to categorize the steam games... until the next bundle purchase |
| 05:37 | <Wolf01> | Now... lego, I need to update the inventory :| |
| 05:39 | <andythenorth> | peter1138 has swapped a pile of patches for a pile of branches :) https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/branches/active |
| 05:39 | <Wolf01> | :D |
| 05:39 | <andythenorth> | we'll have to start saying "peter has a branch for that" |
| 05:40 | <Wolf01> | At least they are now public |
| 05:40 | <Wolf01> | Meh, fuck lego and the 50 shades of blue |
| 05:41 | <Wolf01> | Is this medium blue or dark azure? |
| 05:41 | <Wolf01> | Who knows |
| 05:41 | <andythenorth> | who knows |
| 05:41 | <andythenorth> | stick to red |
| 05:41 | <andythenorth> | I redrew this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/nightlies/v6709-2343/docs/html/trains.html#serpentine |
| 05:42 | <andythenorth> | to this eh http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html#serpentine |
| 05:43 | <Wolf01> | They look more weathered... and smaller, less toy-ish |
| 05:46 | <andythenorth> | 45% complete on horse 2 |
| 05:46 | <andythenorth> | eh look at all the PRs :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls |
| 05:47 | <LordAro> | someone should merge some of them |
| 05:47 | <Wolf01> | Wow |
| 05:49 | <andythenorth> | "Approved: Probably fine" |
| 05:50 | <nielsm> | randumb idea, allow some of the earliest goods cars to be refitted for passengers, but they pay much less, except that 70 years after the car type's introduction they pay more than normal passengers (but are still limited in speed) |
| 05:50 | <nielsm> | not sure if that's possible |
| 05:50 | <andythenorth> | it's possible in newgrf |
| 05:50 | <andythenorth> | why 70 years? o_O |
| 05:51 | <nielsm> | just some random threshold |
| 05:51 | <nielsm> | for when it's considered vintage |
| 05:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd advise against putting passengers in goods cars.... for people willl get the wrong ideas about it... |
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| 06:07 | <andythenorth> | universal wagon |
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| 07:39 | <Wolf01> | https://xkcd.com/1998/ lolled too much |
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| 09:03 | <peter1138> | LordAro, you riding tomorrow or is it gonna rain? |
| 09:21 | * | andythenorth stops playing tanks |
| 09:22 | <LordAro> | peter1138: i hope to be |
| 09:23 | <peter1138> | Hmm, forecast here is now only a little bit of rain. |
| 09:23 | <Wolf01> | Mmmh, train derails continuously always in the same spot |
| 09:27 | <peter1138> | Grr, sticking spacebar :( |
| 09:28 | <peter1138> | Guess I need to take it apart and wash everything. |
| 09:33 | <andythenorth> | or you have a mac |
| 09:33 | <andythenorth> | where it's now a feature |
| 09:34 | <andythenorth> | https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205662 |
| 09:34 | <andythenorth> | "Pro" |
| 09:34 | <andythenorth> | "If any keys are still unresponsive after you've followed these steps" then congrats on choosing Apple |
| 09:35 | <Wolf01> | Lol |
| 09:36 | <andythenorth> | mac keyboards used to be bulletproof |
| 09:37 | * | andythenorth bbl |
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| 12:08 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 12:23 | <snail_UES_> | hey guys, question about set planning |
| 12:24 | <snail_UES_> | how would you prefer engines of different generations be treated? say a type of engine gets released, then after 10 years it gets slightly improved |
| 12:24 | <snail_UES_> | would you rather have just one ID, with vehicles changing according to year of built |
| 12:24 | <snail_UES_> | or separate IDs? |
| 12:25 | <nielsm> | I think I prefer same ID, but it has to be "obvious" that it's a new generation of the vehicle imo |
| 12:26 | <andythenorth> | different IDs |
| 12:26 | <nielsm> | about https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6796 -- autosave when getting disconnected from a network game |
| 12:27 | <nielsm> | should autosave when getting disconnected because of an error, and because the server is restarting/shutting down, be considered separate cases for the configuration setting? |
| 12:27 | <andythenorth> | snail_UES_: is 10 years an actual case, or just an example? |
| 12:28 | <snail_UES_> | andythenorth: it’s just an example |
| 12:29 | <snail_UES_> | a real case would be the Pacific steamers of my French set |
| 12:29 | <andythenorth> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html#growler |
| 12:29 | <snail_UES_> | they were introduced in ~1910 |
| 12:29 | <andythenorth> | Growler reappears as Slug and Phoenix later ^^ |
| 12:29 | <snail_UES_> | then a new version, greatly improved, got out in ~1923 |
| 12:29 | <andythenorth> | 30 year gap, different IDs |
| 12:29 | <snail_UES_> | then an even better one came out in ~1934 |
| 12:29 | <andythenorth> | I wouldn't do 13 year gaps |
| 12:29 | <snail_UES_> | I’m debating whether I should keep them in different IDs |
| 12:29 | <andythenorth> | I'd consolidate |
| 12:30 | <snail_UES_> | could be 1910, 1925 and 1935 |
| 12:30 | <andythenorth> | average the stats between two types |
| 12:30 | <snail_UES_> | something like that |
| 12:46 | <peter1138> | Well |
| 12:46 | <peter1138> | You probably won't hit the ID limit. |
| 12:47 | <peter1138> | nielsm, commit message style ;) |
| 12:48 | <nielsm> | peter1138 where? |
| 12:48 | <peter1138> | Oh, never mind, it's just still building :p |
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| 12:49 | <peter1138> | Gotta say I'm confused as to why it's a gui setting. |
| 12:49 | <nielsm> | it's not |
| 12:50 | <peter1138> | It's in GUISettings. |
| 12:50 | <nielsm> | oh |
| 12:50 | <nielsm> | well it's a client-only setting |
| 12:50 | <peter1138> | Yeah, I know, the other autosave one is too. |
| 12:50 | <peter1138> | Mmm |
| 12:50 | <nielsm> | "least inappropriate place" |
| 12:52 | <peter1138> | Maybe :) |
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| 13:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <snail_UES_> would you rather have just one ID, with vehicles changing according to year of built <-- separate IDs, otherwise people get problems with autoreplace |
| 13:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that basically outweighs any benefits you might construct |
| 13:05 | <snail_UES_> | Eddi|zuHause: yes, autoreplace was what I was thinking about… OTOH having fewer IDs keeps the purchase list cleaner |
| 13:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | handle the purchase list with "retire early" property |
| 13:06 | <snail_UES_> | that’s not always going to be possible, but yeah |
| 13:07 | <peter1138> | Feature request: purchase list variants. |
| 13:07 | <+michi_cc> | So, which MIDI PR to merge? #6787, #6779 or #6774? |
| 13:07 | <LordAro> | select at random |
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| 13:08 | <+michi_cc> | LordAro: I'm biased I'm afraid. |
| 13:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | biased is the best random? :p |
| 13:08 | <peter1138> | I like 6787 |
| 13:09 | <LordAro> | michi_cc: i did not specify a distribution |
| 13:09 | <peter1138> | Are they all exclusive? |
| 13:09 | <+michi_cc> | TrueBrain: #6787 and #6774 should both fulfil your desire for no extra DirectMusic compile farm stuff. |
| 13:09 | <peter1138> | Erm, I've lost my spacebar. |
| 13:10 | <LordAro> | check the sofa |
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| 13:10 | <peter1138> | 6774 is already closed? |
| 13:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | drank too much? |
| 13:10 | <+michi_cc> | peter1138: Yes. It should be obvious why #6774 is exclusive to the others, and #6779 fixes stuff that doesn't apply with 6787 anymore. |
| 13:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "yesterday i came out of the bar stone-cold sober, and then some idiot stepped on my hands!" |
| 13:12 | <nielsm> | the main argument I can think of _against_ #6787 would be "that's a damn huge chunk of code for some music" |
| 13:13 | <nielsm> | but so is my own stuff |
| 13:14 | <nielsm> | if you merge that I'll go and fix up #6775 too :) |
| 13:14 | <snail_UES_> | peter1138: purchase list variants would actually be a cool feature :p |
| 13:14 | <peter1138> | nielsm, hmm, still not saving on server shutdown |
| 13:15 | <snail_UES_> | since my locomotives will come in different flavors (sharing the same ID)… you’ll buy it, and then you can cycle through the variants by refitting to passengers |
| 13:15 | <nielsm> | peter1138 huh odd, I specifically tested that |
| 13:15 | <snail_UES_> | it would be nice to be able to choose the variant upon purchasing |
| 13:15 | <peter1138> | Oh no, not refitting! |
| 13:15 | <nielsm> | bbl, food |
| 13:16 | <snail_UES_> | could you suggest any better alternatives? |
| 13:16 | <peter1138> | Purchase list variants feature ;) |
| 13:16 | <+michi_cc> | nielsm: The real argument against #6787 is: Hey, have new and exciting bugs! :p |
| 13:16 | <peter1138> | Something openttd would need to implement but it would be usable. |
| 13:17 | <snail_UES_> | peter1138: :D I would like to ask for it, but OTTD developers have the interesting habit of shooting down 99.9% of any new feature requests :p |
| 13:17 | <peter1138> | snail_UES_, nobody requested it ;) |
| 13:18 | <peter1138> | I like this one, it's simply a gui change, no actual change to any other logic. |
| 13:18 | <snail_UES_> | honestly I would also love to have it. It would unbelievably simplify my life as a newGRF developer |
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| 13:20 | <andythenorth> | snail_UES_: ctrl-click :P |
| 13:20 | <peter1138> | andythenorth, stupid |
| 13:20 | <andythenorth> | it's great |
| 13:20 | <snail_UES_> | what do you mean by ctrl-click? |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | I am proposing that ctrl-clicking a vehicle cycles through up to 16 variants |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | in depot |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | apparently the correct way is some extension of cargo subtypes :P |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | despite that choosing menu items in ottd is horrible :P |
| 13:21 | <snail_UES_> | yes, cargo subtypes is the way I’m handling it now |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | cargo subtypes are appalling |
| 13:22 | <snail_UES_> | you buy the engine, then refit it to “0 passengers” choosing a variant other than default |
| 13:22 | <andythenorth> | ugh |
| 13:22 | <andythenorth> | that's awful |
| 13:22 | <peter1138> | Quite |
| 13:22 | <peter1138> | That's why new feature |
| 13:22 | <snail_UES_> | I agree it’s not great, but currently there’s no alternative |
| 13:22 | * | andythenorth -> tanks |
| 13:25 | <peter1138> | Hmm, wonder if we already have a suitable icon. |
| 13:27 | <snail_UES_> | also, there should be a way in the code to figure out the engine’s current variant (I’m using userbits now) |
| 13:27 | <snail_UES_> | coz some specs, attachment rules etc. would change according to the variants |
| 13:27 | <peter1138> | no |
| 13:28 | <peter1138> | because it's a separate engine id. |
| 13:28 | <snail_UES_> | oh… so you mean to consolidate different engine IDs in the purchase list? |
| 13:28 | <peter1138> | yes |
| 13:28 | <peter1138> | with ability to select between them |
| 13:28 | <snail_UES_> | I see your idea… that would be nice |
| 13:28 | <peter1138> | no messing with refit |
| 13:28 | <snail_UES_> | would make life even easier as you wouldn’t have to check for userbits |
| 13:29 | <peter1138> | and you can use autoreplace to upgrade |
| 13:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd like the "variants" to be detectable from the articulated callback, so i could have different amounts of articulated parts |
| 13:30 | <peter1138> | if it's a different engine id, you can detect that, no? |
| 13:30 | <snail_UES_> | if they were different IDs, you can detect anything |
| 13:30 | <snail_UES_> | in principle they could even have a different number of articulated parts |
| 13:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd also like a way to synchronize introduction dates |
| 13:32 | <peter1138> | Hmm, separate but similar feature. |
| 13:32 | <snail_UES_> | peter1138: so more than “purchase list variants”, this would be a way to group separate IDs in the purchase list |
| 13:33 | <snail_UES_> | and it would require to add something to the GUI in order to do this |
| 13:33 | <peter1138> | I was thinking of only showing one in the list, and then expand when you view it |
| 13:33 | <peter1138> | Yeah |
| 13:33 | <snail_UES_> | yeah, one that could be a placeholder |
| 13:33 | <peter1138> | Well, it would be the 'first' one |
| 13:34 | <peter1138> | OpenTTD can handle making the user aware of it. NewGRF-wise it's just a vehicle that is very similar. |
| 13:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what if i want my groups to be "all express steam engines", "all freight steam engines", etc.? |
| 13:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the purchase list entry would then maybe have to be a "virtual" vehicle |
| 13:35 | <peter1138> | It's engine variants, not groups. |
| 13:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | semantics... |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | oh yeah that was an idea |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | multiple engine IDs, one menu option |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | variants |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | just use the + disclosure thing peter1138 ? |
| 13:39 | <peter1138> | Maybe |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | there needs to be some 'group' thing as well, just a value |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | for reasons |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | (action 0 prop) |
| 13:41 | <andythenorth> | dword is enough :P |
| 13:43 | <snail_UES_> | peter1138: my initial idea was to have engine variants sharing the same ID |
| 13:43 | <snail_UES_> | since you’re proposing them not to share the same ID, this might as well be groups? |
| 13:44 | <Wolf01> | Group them by name + variant extension |
| 13:45 | <peter1138> | Grouping conflicts with sorting & filtering a bit. |
| 13:47 | <Wolf01> | First filter, then group, then sort |
| 13:52 | <peter1138> | Ok |
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| 13:52 | <peter1138> | Sounds different to variants though. Hmm. |
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| 13:56 | <peter1138> | Hmm |
| 13:57 | <peter1138> | Is cross-NewGRF variant/grouping good/bad? |
| 13:57 | <snail_UES_> | peter1138: I was thinking about it only for my vehicles... |
| 13:57 | <snail_UES_> | cross-newGRF would mean we’d need to introduce standards |
| 13:57 | <snail_UES_> | and this can be a can of worms :) |
| 13:57 | <peter1138> | Indeed. |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | imagine |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | there would be some great forum threads |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | "Groups schema" |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | "New Groups schema" |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | "Please tell me which groups schema is correct" |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | and someone would rage quit |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: my intention would be that the group is on the vehicle name |
| 14:04 | <peter1138> | For this reason, I'm using Engine IDs instead of labels. It's kinda arbitrary, but Engine IDs are already GRF-local. |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | they would all share a common string, and could have additional substrings maybe? |
| 14:04 | <peter1138> | Although... |
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| 14:07 | <peter1138> | https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commit/7cf44716828c93945d2f94fdf4eead282cea85cd < that's the easy bit |
| 14:07 | <peter1138> | 18:31 < Eddi|zuHause> i'd also like a way to synchronize introduction dates |
| 14:07 | <peter1138> | Although I've not tested it. |
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| 14:14 | <andythenorth> | I'll need to patch nml for groups eh? :P |
| 14:15 | <peter1138> | Well |
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| 14:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what does "NewVehicleAvailable(es)" do? |
| 14:22 | <peter1138> | It introductes it :p |
| 14:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | btu does that spawn a separate prototype offer? |
| 14:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | *but |
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| 14:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hey, i finally set my wallclock forward 1 hour! |
| 14:29 | <snail_UES_> | peter1138: a set of variants (or “group”) should be created within a newGRF… using only internal IDs |
| 14:29 | <snail_UES_> | otherwise it’s a mess |
| 14:30 | <snail_UES_> | each set of variants could have a name, like a placeholder, and then each single variant would have the proper ID’s name |
| 14:47 | <andythenorth> | what if you want substrings for names? o_O |
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| 14:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can handle substrings within nml, the game doesn't need to know about them |
| 14:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (they must be static, though) |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | how would that work? |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | all vehicles in the group share the same name |
| 15:04 | <snail_UES_> | andythenorth: no, because they’re different IDs |
| 15:04 | <andythenorth> | well what's shown in the buy menu then? o_O |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | there has to be a string for the group |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | and making a new string for it is silly |
| 15:08 | <snail_UES_> | it could either be a placeholder, or it could be the name of the 1st ID sharing that group |
| 15:09 | <snail_UES_> | the newGRF developer would choose which IDs would share the same groups, and sort them accordingly... |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | not if it's an action 0 prop ;) |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | there's no way to specificy sort order |
| 15:10 | <snail_UES_> | order by engine ID? after all it’s just a number |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | seems reasonable |
| 15:10 | <snail_UES_> | or a group could have “name” as a property |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | groups table :P |
| 15:10 | <snail_UES_> | a group could be, “Pacific type (Steam)” |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | position = group ID :P |
| 15:11 | <snail_UES_> | and each IDs could be: “Pacific livery A” … “Pacific livery B” etc |
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| 15:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: i don't know how peter1138 intended it, but it sounded like you define one vehicle as the "master", and all others as "share the same buy menu entry as $ID" |
| 15:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i was suggesting that this "master" vehicle could somehow be a "virtual" one, i.e. one that only appears in the buy menu, but cannot be bought |
| 15:42 | <V453000> | WOW, story: 1. on NUTS 0.7.8 I started adding cargoes for FIRS2 compatibility. 2. I realized that NUTS has 666 wagon classes and stopped midway through, finding it too much work. 3. I needed to make a new version of NUTS with some BRIX relation, 4. I got rid of the unfinished cargo support, 5. I did some things and released 0.7.9, 6. I made myself actually forget that I got rid of the unfinished cargo support and literally believed that I ca |
| 15:42 | <V453000> | 7. I found out that I actually can |
| 15:42 | <V453000> | :D |
| 15:42 | <snail_UES_> | Eddi|zuHause: I like your idea |
| 15:43 | <snail_UES_> | like putting a placeholder as the group definition, and then the GUI would allow you to choose which variant you’d actually buy |
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| 18:10 | <+michi_cc> | TrueBrain: I solved you MSVC ICU troubles: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6798 |
| 18:10 | <+michi_cc> | TrueBrain: It's likely not the solution you're expecting, but still... :) |
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| 18:53 | <+glx> | oh I like the idea michi_cc |
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| 19:48 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| --- | Log | closed Sun May 27 00:00:28 2018 |