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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-06-05

---Logopened Tue Jun 05 00:00:41 2018
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02:24<peter1138>Hi
02:32<andythenorth>moin
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05:01<peter1138>https://www.pcgamer.com/developers-fear-for-mac-gaming-as-apple-deprecates-opengl-support/
05:02<Eddi|zuHause>why would apple ever follow standards?
05:02<Eddi|zuHause>like, say, usb ports
05:02<Eddi|zuHause>headphone plugs
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05:07<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: i though Safari used to be ahead of other browsers at following HTML standards at some point of time.
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05:15<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that was like 10,15 years ago?
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05:16<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: well within the bounds of "ever" then.
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05:31<mijndert>would this mean a major rewrite for openttd?
05:31<peter1138>No, we don't use it at the moment.
05:32<m3henry>Sorry, I'm missing some context?
05:40<m3henry>Oh I see, yeah, not an issue. It's not a surprising move my Apple, not sure if it will backfire or not.
05:40<m3henry>by*
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06:04<peter1138>Well, as long as it doesn't get removed.
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07:15<peter1138>orudge
07:16<peter1138>tt-forums.net certificate just expired
07:16<andythenorth>LE
07:16<andythenorth>is not 100% reliable :)
07:17<peter1138>I can't even see that it is a LE cert, Firefox refuses to tell me :S
07:18<peter1138>I set up nagios to monitor all my certificates for expiry.
07:18<LordAro>has it been 3 months already?
07:19<peter1138>Chrome at least lets you view the certificate.
07:19<peter1138>Hmm, and also overrides the HSTS settings.
07:20<@orudge>Blargh
07:21<__ln__>LE usually fails because of SELinux
07:21<@orudge>The certificate was renewed fine, it just doesn't seem to restart the web server correctly
07:21<peter1138>My usual reason for LE failing is it's not a website :p
07:21<peter1138>I still need to automate my DNS updates :S
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08:29<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: nothing a hacky crontab entry can't fix :p
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09:10<@orudge>Eddi|zuHause: well, quite
09:10<@orudge>it might come to that
09:11<LordAro>there's reason i just set nginx to restart every month
09:11<LordAro>it's easier :p
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: well, it has to align with the renewal
09:12<LordAro>most autorenew scripts do so a month before expiry
09:13<LordAro>but if not, weekly wouldn't be awful either
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>that makes sense
09:17<peter1138>Restart it during the backup job.
09:17<peter1138>My webservers get reloaded every night anyway, for log rotation purposes.
09:18<peter1138>That's a standard Apache+Debian thing.
09:18<LordAro>apache is unreliable at reloading certificates, i've found
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>have two redundant webservers and restart each at different times :p
09:22<peter1138>LordAro, it's not instant, but as you say, it's generally a month before it actually expires, so it's more than sufficient.
09:23<LordAro>there's several LE autorenewers out there that can run a script (i.e. webserver reload/restart) when it autorenews
09:23<andythenorth>supervisord :P
09:23<LordAro>would be surprised if certbot itself can't do it
09:23<mijndert>certbot -q renew --renew-hook "service nginx reload"
09:23<andythenorth>seems we use a cron job to renew LE and restart apache when needed
09:24<LordAro>see, told you
09:24<LordAro>:p
09:24<andythenorth>that works on a fleet size of about 150 :P
09:24<andythenorth>occasionally we hit a LE throttle limit if a lot of certs renew at once
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>add a random delay to each?
09:25<andythenorth>we're staggering them
09:25<andythenorth>afaik
09:25<andythenorth>it's an artefact of switching a lot over at once
09:25<andythenorth>from thawte or whatever
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09:27<Eddi|zuHause>there was a talk once about people developing a torrent tracker, and they had to put a random into the return interval
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>to spread out waves, e.g. after failures
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>because as soon as they get back on, a huge chunk of requests come at once. and if you give them the same interval, they continue to come back at once
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>if you add some randomness, that evens out after a while
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 05 12:50:13 2018
---Logopened Tue Jun 05 12:50:19 2018
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13:01<andythenorth>well
13:01<LordAro>no.
13:02<andythenorth>exactly
13:02<andythenorth>also bbl
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13:06<Wolf01>o/
13:07<@Alberth>o/
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13:37<Wolf01>o/
13:37<andythenorth>lo
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13:42<andythenorth>the scale is wrong http://www.railpictures.net/photo/660170/
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14:12<andythenorth>so what happened on openttd github today? o_O
14:12<andythenorth>or microgit as we have to call it now :)
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>gitlive?
14:13<nielsm>git 365
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>git for windows live
14:19<andythenorth>binghub
14:20<andythenorth>did we successfully increase the PR count? o_O
14:22*andythenorth tries to find project with most open PRs
14:22<andythenorth>this didn't have the answer https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/analyzing-github-pull-request-data-with-big-query/
14:49<TrueBrain>peter1138: ship that dropping of DirectX Music shit already :P
14:51<nielsm>directmusic isn't being dropped, it's already been replaced with a rewrite that doesn't depend on a 10 year old directx sdk
14:51<nielsm>(and also works on 64 bit builds)
14:52<andythenorth>TrueBrain: ship NRT already :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6811
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15:34<michi_cc>TrueBrain: You don't need any DirectX part anymore that isn't part of the standard Windows SDK.
15:39<nielsm>so anyway, what's my dosmusic patch waiting for? :(
15:40<nielsm>(the other month+ old PRs could also do with some kind of update I think)
15:40<michi_cc>LordAro: You requested changes to 6775 ^^^
15:41<nielsm>I addressed everything
15:41<nielsm>except for BeOS still being supported :P
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15:44<LordAro>ono
15:45<LordAro>happy?
15:45<michi_cc>frosch123: You last commented on 6751 and 6754 with some change wishes. If you feel them required, you should probably 'request changes' (sends a clear signal to the author) or we either merge or close them.
15:46*nielsm performs a dance to the TTO title tune
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15:56<nielsm>hmm I think I should start over with the remaining music changes I made, possibly even a major overhaul of the logic in music_gui.cpp (which is somewhat convoluted right now)
15:56<nielsm>(might even end up with support for mixing multiple music sets into a single playlist, who knows)
15:57<michi_cc>nielsm: src\music\midifile.cpp(995): warning C4267: "Initialisierung": Konvertierung von "size_t" nach "uint32", Datenverlust möglich
15:57<michi_cc>Not really important at all, but a cast would remove one message :)
15:58<nielsm>oh right, I never make 64 bit builds
15:58<nielsm>(because the first time I tried it crashed the compiler, although I actually know I can make them now)
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16:02<LordAro>nielsm: nice.
16:06<frosch123>LordAro: what to do with 6781?
16:07<frosch123>the CompanyProperties change looks non-trivial at best
16:07<frosch123>also there is a replacement in company_cmd from 0 to INVALID_TILE
16:08<frosch123>can you remove the non-trivial changes?
16:09<frosch123>also, wasn't there an analysis result of the unoptimised blitter code with std::copy?
16:09<LordAro>bleh, i guess i could
16:09<LordAro>not sure it would be correct though :p
16:10<LordAro>i didn't do any actual metrics, but i didn't notice any difference with basic scrolling around
16:10<frosch123>wasn't there some disassembly?
16:10<nielsm>the purpose of the unoptimized blitter is to be "obviously correct" I assume?
16:10<nielsm>then the speed of it shouldn't really be a concern imho
16:11<LordAro>godbolt demonstrated that stdcopy didn't actually compild quite as neatly as memcpy
16:11<LordAro>in a completely unoptimised build
16:11<LordAro>(am in pub, apologise for typos)
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16:23<michi_cc>nielsm: If you push an update for that warning I'll merge your PR (unless somebody has objections, but then he should speak or be silent forever :)
16:24<Wolf01>Like a marriage
16:24<andythenorth>that is not marriage as I know it :P
16:24<andythenorth>oh marriage ceremony I see :P
16:25<andythenorth>actual marriage is more like 'has objections and voices them for years afterwards'
16:27<frosch123>marriage/wedding is just as complicated as save/safe or proof/prove
16:28<nielsm>michi_cc I'll just make it a new commit on top, that's fine right? :)
16:28<nielsm>instead of rebasing everything again
16:28<andythenorth>did I post the roofs/rooves thread?
16:28<andythenorth>it's everything wrong with the internet
16:28<andythenorth>I think I posted already, but http://grammarist.com/usage/roofs-rooves/
16:28<andythenorth>comments => evening lost :P
16:28<Wolf01>And don't forget dwarfs/dwarves
16:29<LordAro>..rooves?
16:29<LordAro>burn them
16:30<LordAro>Wolf01: dorfs
16:30<michi_cc>nielsm: I'm not going to squash, so whatever you do will be visible for all eternity.
16:31<Wolf01>And fish/ghoti
16:31<frosch123>LordAro: the half-life of irregular verbs caled with the square root of usage frequency
16:31<frosch123>^^ one of my favorite quotes
16:31<frosch123>*scales
16:33<nielsm>michi_cc: there
16:38<michi_cc>TrueBrain: Any chance you can run PR#6798 through whatever you intend the Windows compile to be?
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17:01<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 06 00:00:42 2018