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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-06-06

---Logopened Wed Jun 06 00:00:42 2018
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03:00<peter1138>hehe, home via pub. 21m moving time, 4 hours total :p
03:00<peter1138>Fortunately I leave work a bit too early to consider stopping at pubs.
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03:04-!-ToBeFree is "Tobias "ToBeFree" Frei" on #https-everywhere #oolite-dev #openttd #tor #debian @#linux #oolite #oolite-ger
03:05<andythenorth>ha ha commits :)
03:11<LordAro>peter1138: :p
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04:16<peter1138>Hmm, Conquest Reforged looks interesting.
04:16<peter1138>Also way too many added blocks.
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06:20<LordAro>peter1138: pretty sure that's the fastest PR yet
06:21<andythenorth>is someone data mining stats? o_O
06:21<andythenorth>we could have a league table
06:21<andythenorth>meta-game in the meta-game :P
06:29<peter1138>LordAro, was thinking that :)
06:29<andythenorth>good eh
06:29<peter1138>LordAro, it was simple enough I didn't need to do any testing... and the CI makes sure it compiles so no worries there.
06:29<andythenorth>patchpack by a good author > cherrypick improvements > stronger core
06:29<andythenorth>stronger core > more better patchpacks
06:30<peter1138>Now it can't be built. What?
06:31<andythenorth>how rude
06:31<peter1138>"Notifies GitHub of the status of a Pull Request"
06:32<peter1138>is Red.
06:32<peter1138>I don't think I touched any of that!
06:33<LordAro>looks like it all compiled anyway..
06:33<peter1138>Oh those warnings are there anyway. Hmm.
06:34<LordAro>did you merge before the CI completed?
06:34<LordAro>if the error is it trying to notify on a merged PR
06:34<LordAro>wonder if*
06:34<peter1138>Is that possible? o_O
06:35<peter1138>Maybe I did.
06:35<peter1138>If it's possible. Hmm.
06:36<peter1138>TrueBrain, i broke it ;(
06:43<peter1138>11:20 < LordAro> peter1138: pretty sure that's the fastest PR yet
06:43<peter1138>Not so good now ;(
06:43<LordAro>PR ci passed though
06:43<LordAro>clearly it's MS breaking things
06:44<peter1138>Must be, github isn't even loading for me now.
06:44<peter1138>Maybe I've been permabanned.
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06:49<peter1138>"The connection to was interrupted while the page was loading." :)
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07:16-!-chomwitt is "chomwitt" on #debian #debian-games
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07:20<peter1138>dbg: [grf] Base music set song missing from CAT file:
07:20<peter1138>Is that necessary?
07:23<peter1138>Strava says I'm 1527 miles behind pace :(
07:23<peter1138>Don't think I'll catch that up.
07:24<andythenorth>take a week off
07:25<peter1138>Need more than a week for that.
07:26<LordAro>peter1138: pace compared to what?
07:26<LordAro>last year?
07:26<peter1138>Yearly target.
07:26<peter1138>This year I did much more MTB riding.
07:26<peter1138>Distance isn't everything :)
07:27<LordAro>i'm on 1.3k miles this year
07:28<LordAro>ehich i'm guessing is a long way behind you :p
07:28<peter1138>Not much, I'm on 1947.
07:29<andythenorth>I reckon I've done at least 100 miles this year
07:30<peter1138>Well done.
07:31<peter1138>I did 8000 in 2016, but only 6900 in 2017.
07:32<LordAro>my all time is only 6k :p
07:33<LordAro>need to get my bike serviced, i'm just shy of 2k on it, with original tyres & chainset
07:41<peter1138>Should be fine.
07:43<peter1138>My road bike did 6000 on just 2 chains.
07:43<andythenorth>mine is probably 2k on original tyres and chain
07:43<peter1138>Parts wear but if they're still working I don't see the point of replacing them.
07:44<andythenorth>tyres are slammed because of cobbles, they have cracks all round
07:44<andythenorth>but eh
07:45<peter1138>If the tyres are cracked that just means they're old, nothing to do with holes.
07:46<andythenorth>that too
07:46<andythenorth>but in our office we liked to blame the cobbles
07:47<LordAro>peter1138: thry're starting to not :p
07:47<LordAro>chain is definitely stretching, hanger is bent, and i can't get the dereileur alignment right anyway
07:47<peter1138>Well, at 2k just a new chain should suffice.
08:40<LordAro>peter1138: you fixed it \o/
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>i technically have a bike i got as a kid in 1991-ish
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that is usable
08:47<andythenorth>^ 1991 ish my boke
08:47<andythenorth>bike *
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, mine was probably a lot cheaper :p
08:47<andythenorth>in retrospect it was crap, but I loved it at the time
08:50<andythenorth>then I got this
08:50<andythenorth>which was also crap, but I didn't know it at the time
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09:04<Eddi|zuHause>if i were looking for a new bike, how would i find one that isn't crap?
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>(also, let's keep it below 4 digits)
09:11<peter1138>You'd need to research the frame and components
09:13<LordAro>find nearest cycle shop, go talk to them
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09:16<LordAro>peter1138: i'd probably say it's not worth worrying about individual components if your bike is below 4 digits
09:16<LordAro>premature optimisation and all that
09:17<peter1138>Probably not.
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, it'd be weird if my bike was more expensive than my car?
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09:18<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, not really.
09:18<peter1138>Weird for maybe :)
09:19<peter1138>I think my 18 year old car is probably worth less than my MTB.
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: it would be way better if they were writing the kernel in modern languages that don't need specs
09:23<peter1138>andythenorth, you know, livery overrides also remove wagon speed limits?
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09:24<peter1138>andythenorth, this may not be known and isn't visible in the build vehicle gui.
09:24<andythenorth>what are 'livery overrides'? :P
09:25<peter1138>Very important part of the newgrf spec.
09:25<andythenorth>I never figured out how to use them
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>if you were making a grf 10 years ago...
09:25<andythenorth>they seem super-complicated tbh
09:25<peter1138>if ((rvi_u->railveh_type != RAILVEH_WAGON || _settings_game.vehicle.wagon_speed_limits) && !UsesWagonOverride(u))
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really complicated
09:26<peter1138>^ if condition just before checking the wagon speed limit.
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's just the quickest hack available
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>before wagons had all sorts of varaction2 capabilities
09:26<peter1138>Heavily used by DBSetXL.
09:26<peter1138>And probably UKRS, etc.
09:26<peter1138>Maybe NARS, I never played that that much to tell though.
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>dbsetxl is now what? 13 years ago?
09:27<peter1138>Just as well we're not Apple, else it would never work.
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>wagon override is how the dbset gets away with just having a 160km/h wagon, but some engines go 200km/h or more
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10:31<m3henry>With the move to GitHub, are we any closer to being able to compile C++11/14/17 for all targets?
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think those things are related
10:34<peter1138>Are the two related?
10:35<m3henry>I was reading through the logs of the past few days
10:35<m3henry>and saw some mentions of CI
10:35<@Alberth>how is that related to the programming language you use?
10:36<m3henry>Because I recall the reason C++11 isn't currently accepted to OpenTTD code is that the Build Server isn't up to date
10:37<m3henry>And mentions of CI indicate to me that this may have been replaced
10:37<peter1138>Who says it's not accepted?
10:40<m3henry>I suppose I'm remembering incorrectly then
10:41<m3henry>So pull requests are the preferred method of submission these days I assume?
10:42<LordAro>technically speaking yes, the new compile farm was unrelated to moving to github
10:43<LordAro>in practice, it was done at the same time
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11:06<@Alberth>I think pull requests are the only accepted form :)
11:06<andythenorth>can the topic include how many PRs open, how many closed last 30 days? o_O
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11:29<nielsm>I'm constantly weirded out by how clicking "exit" on the main menu somehow triggers a but of extra DLL loads on windows
11:30<nielsm>only really visible after various system files have been updated and the symbol cache for those needs to download new PDB files
11:30<peter1138>dbg: [grf] Base music set song missing from CAT file:
11:30<peter1138>Is that message necessary every time?
11:31<nielsm>hmm probably not...
11:32<nielsm>ought to raise that to level 1
11:32<peter1138>Does it need a message?
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11:34<peter1138>There's no missing files message from missing graphics or sound basesets.
11:39<nielsm>yeah it shouldn't complain if the CAT file is missing entirely, only if you specify an index into it that doesn't exist
11:40<nielsm>I'll make a fix for that
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11:56<peter1138>m3henry, we have commit-message style rules that need to be followed.
12:11<m3henry>Looks like doing a force push updates the pull request
12:11<andythenorth>it's the recommended technique
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12:11<nielsm>yep get used to rebasing and force pushing when working on this
12:12<m3henry>I've only ever used git send-email for open source collaborating
12:12<m3henry>woo linux kernel
12:12<andythenorth>force push is definitely not conventional everywhere :)
12:14<m3henry>I do wish that git pull defaulted to either --no-ff or --rebase rather than merging
12:14<m3henry>I know it can be aliased
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12:14<m3henry>But it's just a pain when I forget to set it up
12:15<andythenorth>if you haven't seen it btw...
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12:17<m3henry>Yeah I just read that
12:23<nielsm>michi_cc I'm going to need your help with the new dmusic driver :) re. this branch - the dmusic driver's preload prevents mostly-smooth looping on the title screen as far as I can tell, the calculated timeout in dmusic.cpp:745 seems to make it just skip past the end-of-song override check
12:28<LordAro>m3henry: pretty sure there some config you can set somewhere...
12:29<m3henry>pull.ff = only
12:30<m3henry>or pull.rebase = true
12:31<m3henry>I was merely grumbling at poor defaults :3
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12:37*andythenorth did a pr :P
12:37<andythenorth>waiting for builds to complete :P
12:37<andythenorth>hope I didn't break them
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12:43<peter1138>Why does git on Windows do this to me?
12:43<peter1138>git status tells me a file is modified, git diff tells me not.
12:44<LordAro>line endings?
12:44<LordAro>you've added autocrlf to your config, i hope?
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12:52<andythenorth>peter1138: something else comes by and touches metadata? o_O
12:52<andythenorth>or you're holding it wrong? o_O
12:52<andythenorth>"hodling it wrong" :P
12:52<andythenorth>world ends
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12:55<peter1138>m3henry, hmm, any way to make the helper functions be in a template class that can be used instead of std::vector directly? I wonder if that is more desirable than standalone functions.
12:57<LordAro>template <typename T> class Vector : std::vector<T> {...} sort of thing?
12:58<peter1138>Something like that?
12:58<LordAro>ideally you wouldn't need nearly as many of those helper functions, i think
12:58<LordAro>especially Extend
12:58<peter1138>Seems a bit strange to have these standalone functions. Not very C++ like :-)
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12:59<peter1138>I think Find() doesn't need to exist.
12:59<LordAro>mm, i'd have no issues with std::find being scattered throughout the code
12:59<peter1138>Hmm, I see, other stuff uses them.
13:02<peter1138>If it was a template class then stuff like change wouldn't be needed.
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13:09<LordAro>or, if (std::find(list->keycodes.begin(), list->keycodes.end(), [keycode, global_only](uint16 k){return k == static_cast<uint16>(keycode | WKC_GLOBAL_HOTKEY) || (!global_only && k == keycode); }) != list->keycodes.end()) { return list->num };
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13:09<peter1138>It's a little verbose.
13:10<LordAro>i *guess*
13:10<LordAro>only one pass through each list though
13:10<LordAro>better performance!
13:11<LordAro> also
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13:14*Rubidium wonders is push_back is still copying data
13:16<@Alberth>you'd hope compilers would know about that by now
13:17<@Rubidium>well, the copying behaviour was AFAIR the whole reason to not go with it, but that might've changed (not sure though)
13:18<@Alberth>emplace_back is also c++11
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13:24<m3henry>I was aiming to keep the existing names that SmallVector had, to ease transition
13:27<m3henry>Rubidium: push back() can do copy or a move: Appends the given element value to the end of the container. (1) The new element is initialized as a copy of value. (2) value is moved into the new element.
13:27<@Alberth>keeping existing semantics is more valuable than keeping a name, probably
13:29<@Alberth>ie Append was needed to get emplace_back behavior before that was standardised
13:30<m3henry>well if plain vector would be preferred, than I could do that instead
13:31<@Alberth>eventually you'd end with a plain vector, wouldn't you?
13:32<@Alberth>so eventually names are going to change?
13:33<@Alberth>what transition is difficult by doing that directly?
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13:36<@Alberth>did someone write a nice git gui tool yet?
13:36<@Alberth>for browsing history mostly
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13:36<LANJesus>Alberth: huh?
13:36<@Alberth>thg was good, but all git gui things are crap
13:37<LANJesus>i've had decent luck with the git extension for VS. i've also used sourcetree
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13:37<@Alberth>well, yeah, for linux
13:37<Wolf01>Alberth: let's see if now MS could do something :P
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13:38<@Alberth>no doubt they can if you use their linux interface at windows? :p
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13:43<peter1138>I use gitg for browsing.
13:43<peter1138>Although I preferred older versions as they showed every stash in a simple way too.
13:45<peter1138>Hmm, probably time to go out.
13:45<LANJesus>have you tried smartgit?
13:46<peter1138>There's also github's desktop client.
13:46<peter1138>LANJesus, "purchase"? What is this crazy talk?
13:46<LANJesus>if smartgit sucks, try giteye or gitk
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14:03<peter1138>Is it?
14:03<peter1138>Time to leave, andythenorth's here.
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14:03<peter1138>-> mtb
14:03<@Alberth>looks that way at least
14:03*andythenorth -> tanks?
14:04<@Alberth>open wagons with barrels?
14:04<@Alberth>at least you can see it loading :)
14:04<andythenorth>I was thinking about Blitz but eh :)
14:04<@Alberth>oh, other tanks :D
14:05<@Alberth>still hooked? :)
14:05<andythenorth>comes and goes
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14:05<andythenorth>as addictions go, it's more satisfying than spider solitaire :P
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14:11<m3henry>Alberth: I find this good for viewing history: `git log --decorate --oneline --graph --summary -s --all`
14:11<@Alberth>fair enough, andy :)
14:12<@Alberth>m3henry: I have log -20 --graph --pretty=oneline --abbrev-commit --decorate --date=relative
14:13<@Alberth>but that doesn't come close to a gui tool
14:14<m3henry>I suppose it comes down to how much time you spend in CLI as to preferences
14:14<@Alberth>especially one with search facilities and browsing in files of old versions with blame information
14:14<@Alberth>day-to-day I use CLI
14:15<@Alberth>just looking through history to find how a change was introduced is just horrible at command-line
14:15<@Alberth>line x of file y is broken, how did that happen?
14:16<@Alberth>especially in the context where files were refactored etc
14:16<m3henry>I love using bisect for things like that
14:16<LANJesus>Alberth: i'm guessing the web interface is garbage for that?
14:16<@Alberth>try thg then :)
14:17<@Alberth>all git tools suck, I tried everything with git gui in the package manager
14:17<@Alberth>gitg is the least bad, but you can't even search for changes
14:17<andythenorth>I use CLI git
14:17<andythenorth>and don't try to do anything complicated ever :P
14:17<andythenorth>I rely on bitbucket / github a lot
14:18<@Alberth>m3henry: not broken in the sense that you can test it simply
14:18<@Alberth>you have to look at the line or the section of code to see what happened
14:19<@Alberth>so you need to step back through the change history of that section of code
14:19<@Alberth>and skip file/function moves, variable renames, etc
14:25<nielsm>"blame" is generally okay to trace back when something changed? if you know the file and line
14:29<@Alberth>yeah, but that repeatedly, and check what line to verify each step, as code may have moved
14:30<@Alberth>including to other files :)
14:30<TrueBrain>peter1138: rarely, but sometimes, a job fails for no clear reason
14:30<TrueBrain>seems this was one of them
14:30<@Alberth>unlucky throw of the dice
14:32<TrueBrain>and because 2 new commits have been on master, I also cannot retrigger it :D
14:32<TrueBrain>which is silly :P
14:32<Wolf01>I tried to use the client integrated on VS, but it misses something... sometimes it breaks and you need to get the cli to do a reset (the gui seem to not be able to reset --hard successfully)
14:35<@Alberth>it's just this advanced search stuff that I need a gui for, I use the command-line for everything else
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14:36<@Alberth>and looking through diffs by clicking is also nice, don't need that often though
14:38<Wolf01>That's shitty enough :(
14:38<LordAro>does the job though
14:39<Wolf01>I was really used to TortoiseSVN and I thought I would be happy with TortoiseGit.. but no
14:39<@Alberth>indeed tortoisegit doesn't come close
14:40<@Alberth>ah, the myth that text-files are platform independent :)
14:40<Wolf01>They are, just always use LF
14:41<Wolf01>And don't use notepad, ok, the unfixed one :P
14:41<@Alberth>and utf-8 :)
14:41<@Alberth>yeah, I switched to wordpad decades ago :)
14:42<Wolf01>My boss is still fighting against the accented chars on the newsletter, he seem to not be able to fix the templates he uses, and I shown him how to do it many times
14:43<@Alberth>maybe show him how to save a template :p
14:43<Wolf01>Maybe is the stupid editor he uses which still write or encode in ansi
14:44<andythenorth>doesn't MailChimp take care unicode issues?
14:44<andythenorth>I've never had problems with it
14:46<Wolf01>Nah, we have html files to load on our crm, and that works well if you provide html files which agree between the encoding used to save it and the encoding specified in the html header
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14:47<Wolf01>BTW, /me -> python... monty
14:47<nielsm>ahh FINALLY got that theme to loop properly again
14:48<andythenorth>hmm spider solitaire is winning
14:49<andythenorth>even when I undo a lot :P
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15:00<@Alberth>spider is a difficult game
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>it took me a lot of time to learn it
15:02<andythenorth>if I undo enough, I win
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>why did the "melody of the mouse" just pop up in my head for no reason?
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15:15<LANJesus>and now i have stuck in there
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure how these two are related?
15:16<LANJesus>they're not, really
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, they're probably around the same age
15:30<Wolf01>No monty python... parents can't read subtitles :|
15:33<@Alberth>is that even translatable? I would think translating monty python is less than trivial
15:33<Wolf01>You can get most of the jokes
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15:37<michi_cc>Windows breakage incoming... :p
15:38<LordAro>but how will we know?
15:40<michi_cc>Know what? That it has come in or that it has broken?
15:40<LordAro>no windows CI
15:40<michi_cc>The first by joining #openttd.notice, the second by TB getting nightlies running again.
15:41<LordAro>which is clearly the only way we could know that something is broken
15:42<Wolf01>Meh, I wanted to play cities skylines... I need to download it first :(
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: monty python did a show in german
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>also, all the monty python stuff was dubbed into german, as far as i know
15:50<Wolf01>Were dubbed in italian too, but netflix only has original audio with subs
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16:30<m3henry>Gah, emplace_back() doesn't return a reference to the constructed element until C++17
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16:48<m3henry>So I have two approaches to providing same functionality as before
16:50<m3henry>The approach taken previously, having free functions, which does change semantics from member calls, but is more consistent with modern C++
16:50<m3henry>Or having a templated container adapter, which provides the functionality as member functions
16:51<m3henry><template typename T> struct VectorAdapter : T { ... additional public methods };
16:51<LordAro>personally i'd try to avoid doing anything extra if at all possible
16:52<m3henry>Which would keep current semantics intact
16:52<m3henry>And only require type changes on the most part
16:52<LordAro>requires a bit more "look at what the code is actually doing", but i think it'd make it better overall
16:52<@Alberth>in the current implementation you need the reference to fill the value
16:52<@Alberth>it may not be used much otherwise
16:53<m3henry>Well you can't find something without the object you want to find in
16:53<m3henry>(or an iterator pair)
16:53<nielsm>are you trying to reinvent boost's intrusive containers?
16:53<m3henry>Scrap SmallVector
16:53<@Alberth>it's at the end, right?
16:54<@Alberth>first entry of the reverse iterator, eg
16:54<LordAro>emplace_back(foo) + .back() ?
16:54<@Alberth>but I'd guess you don't need that reference often, if at all
16:54<m3henry>emplace_back() returns void until C++14
16:55<m3henry>it returns T& from C++17
16:55<LordAro>back() returns a reference
16:55<nielsm>I (ab)used SmallVector as a variably-sized buffer in my midifile code, that usage is definitely not suited to be converted to std::vector
16:56<LordAro>how so?
16:56<nielsm>or well it _could_ but it'd be awkward
16:56<m3henry>What do you mean though
16:57<LordAro>for the vast majority of uses smallvec -> stdvector is a near one-to-one conversion
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16:58<nielsm>really std::string would probably be a better replacement in this particular use
16:59<m3henry>Why though?
16:59<nielsm>or maybe std::basic_string<byte>
16:59<nielsm>it's chunks of raw byte-stream data
17:02*LordAro notes src/misc/array.hpp
17:02<m3henry>I don't see why a resizable contiguous container is inferior to a resizable contiguous container, std::vector certainly has a better reallocation stregy for expansion
17:02<LordAro>i don't think i've ever seen this before
17:02*m3henry looks too
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17:04<m3henry>Looks like a vector of fixed sized blocks
17:09<peter1138>Ooo, software update for my Garmin
17:09<LordAro>peter1138: i'm very close to pressing the "buy" button for a bryton
17:10<peter1138>Do it, it's way nicer than sticking a phone on your bike.
17:16<m3henry>Then the question comes, what to do about case of similar methods
17:17<m3henry>So Adapter::Assign() is provided by std::vector::assign()
17:17<peter1138>LordAro, don't forget your cadence and heart rate monitor for some stats you probably won't ever need but hey, stats!
17:17<LordAro>peter1138: exactly!
17:18<m3henry>But would either require a forwarding function, or a code to use the new name of assign()
17:21<m3henry>So avoiding code changes by having member functions wouldn't be avoided if the new name is used
17:22<peter1138>LordAro, I want power meters but they're so expensive :(
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17:26<LordAro>peter1138: i pressed the buy button
17:26<LordAro>...and also bought a bottle of whiskey and 2 CDs
17:26<peter1138>Welcome to the club.
17:27<peter1138>Ooh, whatcha get?
17:27<LordAro>the cycle computer, or the whiskey? :p
17:28<LordAro>(Bryton 530T & Jameson Caskmates Irish whiskey)
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17:30<peter1138>I'd celebrate with a glass of Glenlivet but it's a school night.
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 07 00:00:43 2018