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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-06-10

---Logopened Sun Jun 10 00:00:47 2018
01:03-!-themanhimself is "herald" on #debian
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01:04<themanhimself>is anyone willing to play a game with me?
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02:53<themanhimself>actually can high fives be three way?
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03:54<nielsm>morning, too
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05:06<nielsm>which is better?
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05:41<LordAro>nielsm: probably 2
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05:47<Wolf01>Mmmh why they do this... Updating a purchased route, I have a pro account do download at max speed etc, limit of 200MB/day -> broken route because I hit the limit
05:53<nielsm>is DOS still a fully supported platform?
05:54<nielsm>I think there are a few platforms that lack a GetTime() implementation to get milliseconds (or greater) precision timestamps
05:54<LordAro>DOS doesn't have networking
05:54<LordAro>beyond that...
05:54<LordAro>oh, and no one's tried in months :p
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05:55<nielsm>does a C++11 compiler even exist that can target DOS?
05:56<LordAro>mingw in theory
05:56<nielsm>allegro_v.cpp line 464, there's the GetTime() for DOS too
05:56<nielsm>should move it to a separate source file really
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07:59<nielsm>scenario editor really needs a button to toggle "city" status of towns imo
08:05<Wolf01>Scenario editor needs to be ported to 2018
08:06<nielsm>and also a better tree brush and landscaping brushes
08:09<Wolf01>I was working on those, bud andythenorth distracted me :P
08:10<Wolf01> <- nielsm, you might want to try this
08:12<Wolf01>andythenorth: did you see the new lego big train (moc)?
08:13<andythenorth>not really my kind of thing, but lot of work there
08:14<Wolf01>I can't understand if the wheels flange piece is custom or what piece is
08:16<andythenorth>he says it's lego only
08:17<Wolf01>Yeah, but I don't recognize it
08:21<andythenorth>me neither
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10:23<FLHerne>Wolf01: Is it something like this?
10:24<FLHerne>No, much bigger
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11:00<m1cr0man>Hello. Is there a way to change the cost of placing rails either via an addon or the game settings? I want to try a different train set than UKRS2 but I want to keep the much more expensive rails
11:03<nielsm>there is the BaseCosts Mod 5.0, it lets you adjust the cost factor of everything individually
11:03<m1cr0man>perfect, thanks :)
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11:44<nielsm>I was just reminded that C++11 has std::chrono in, and it might actually be the best approach to all fine time measuring needs... is it okay to use? :)
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12:04<planetmaker_>hi hi
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14:16<ANIKHTOS>hello all
14:24<ANIKHTOS>i will try to write soem code albarth
14:24<ANIKHTOS>but c++ is the first time i see thelanguage i used visual basic in the past
14:24<ANIKHTOS>and all seems a bit strange
14:24<@Alberth>nice, what part are you thinking to extend?
14:25<ANIKHTOS>the day length lol
14:25<@Alberth>haha, version N+1 :)
14:25<ANIKHTOS>well i am stil confused readign the code
14:26<ANIKHTOS>i get the functiosn but nto get them fully
14:26<@Alberth>you may want to read some patches, and try to compile them, and play with them to get an idea of how they look and feel
14:26<@Alberth>that's normal, it's 300+K lines of code, not something you can understand in a few weeks
14:27<ANIKHTOS> /* check if we entered a new month? */ bool new_month = ymd.month != _cur_month;
14:27<ANIKHTOS>id do not get hwo it works lol
14:27<ANIKHTOS>i got the increase fo ticks
14:27<ANIKHTOS>the chekc of fractiont o new day
14:28<ANIKHTOS>the increase fo day
14:28<ANIKHTOS>and in new month i do nto get it
14:28<@Alberth>not that difficult, _cur_month is likely the current month we saw last, and ymd.month the "real" new month
14:28<ANIKHTOS>well it seems i feel to grasp the ymd
14:29<ANIKHTOS>fell =fell
14:29<@Alberth>so if (ymd.motn != _cur_month), you have a new month
14:30<@Alberth>sorry, my network connection tends to die every now and then
14:30<ANIKHTOS>i have plan soem code so far
14:30<ANIKHTOS>but stuck in new month
14:31<nielsm>that line compares ymd.month with _cur_month and sets new_month to true if they're different, false if they're equal
14:32<ANIKHTOS>thanks nielsm
14:32<@Alberth>ymd is a variable of type YearMonthDay, defined at line 103 of date_type.h
14:32<ANIKHTOS>i am changing date.cpp
14:33<@Alberth>no idea what's in it, but it sounds like a useful file to modifiy :)
14:33<ANIKHTOS>there is all i want to change
14:33<@Alberth>how convenient :)
14:34<ANIKHTOS>the increasement in day month year and the call outs for dailly motnhly yearly cahnges
14:34<ANIKHTOS>the trick is i do nto want to break compatibility and rewrite everythign lol
14:35<@Alberth>at that point better start openttd2 :)
14:35<ANIKHTOS>i will nto break comaptibility
14:35<ANIKHTOS>i jsut need soem better understadign of c++
14:35<@Alberth>sounds like the better plan to me :)
14:36<@Alberth>I'd say spend a few weeks learning c++
14:36<ANIKHTOS>sugest a godo readign material??
14:37<nielsm>I haven't seen any recommendations of any online courses, all recommendations I see are for "real" books
14:37<nielsm>can't get around the fact that C++ is a very complex language
14:38<ANIKHTOS>well so far i understand some code
14:38<ANIKHTOS>and some is still headache
14:39<@Alberth>that's a normal state of mind for something so big and complicated as openttd source code
14:40<ANIKHTOS>lol i only see 314 lines
14:40<ANIKHTOS>and i have problem
14:41<ANIKHTOS>the code is always brek into small files?? or there is a big file with all the code??
14:41<@Alberth>you're fighting 3 things currently, learning c++, understanding the code, changing the code for something that several others failed to get working
14:41<nielsm>the code is split into multiple files since there's so much of it
14:42<ANIKHTOS>soem call outs from this date.cpp are for functions in another files but it wll be pain int he ass to fidn where exactt hey are to see what they do
14:43<ANIKHTOS>i think it is too much split
14:43<ANIKHTOS>why we have so many date files?/ and not 1 huge??
14:43<@Alberth>grep is your friend, or an IDE that understands C++ code
14:43<nielsm>are you on windows or something else?
14:43<nielsm>what are you using for editor/compiler/IDE?
14:43<nielsm>visual studio or something else?
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14:44<ANIKHTOS>have nto download anything yet
14:44<@Alberth>there is more structure in the files than you think
14:44<nielsm>visual studio has a lot of good tools to help navigating the code
14:45<ANIKHTOS>well i ahve a problem of space iam not in home , my laptop is full so i need a programm that will take the niniest space to install
14:45<ANIKHTOS>and i mean the tiniest i ahve 500mb free
14:45<@Alberth>date_type.h defines the date data types, date_func.h declares the functions used at other places, should implement the functions in date_func.h
14:46<nielsm>if you have that little space you're in bad luck
14:46<nielsm>it takes almost 400 MB of space for me to just compile openttd
14:46<@Alberth>*gui* stuff is for the window system, probably just displaying the date or so
14:46<nielsm>that's not including the multiple GB taken by visual studio installation
14:46<ANIKHTOS>i have a ramdrive of 2 gb
14:46<@Alberth>and the git repo
14:47<ANIKHTOS>so i can have free temp space of 2.5gb free but not for storage more for workign space
14:48<@Alberth>one source set + repo + build in it, is near 850MB
14:48<ANIKHTOS>i can find the work space
14:48<@Alberth>not doing really much
14:49<@Alberth>everything openttd-develop is 19G, but that has a lot of history and experiments
14:50<ANIKHTOS>ouch lot of space
14:50<nielsm>really, get 10 GB free harddisk space before you get started
14:51<ANIKHTOS>if i was hoem i could but since i am on travel
14:51<ANIKHTOS>thats nto an option for now
14:51<ANIKHTOS>okey when i fidn the free space
14:52<ANIKHTOS>what free programs i can use??
14:52<nielsm>I recommend visual studio 2017 community edition
14:52<ANIKHTOS>its free??
14:52<ANIKHTOS>so strange to hear the words visual studio and free at same sentence
14:53<nielsm>they've had the community edition for free for many years now
14:53<nielsm>it has all the pro features, you're just not allowed to use it for paid work
14:55<Wolf01><nielsm> it has all the pro features <- nope
14:56<ANIKHTOS>is there a zip of all the files of ottd??
14:56<ANIKHTOS>or i will have to downlaod 1 by 1??
14:56<Wolf01>The client is even integrated into VS
14:57<@Alberth>github allows download of a zip, but you're far better off by cloning the git repository
14:57<nielsm>if you aren't used to working with version control (or just git for that matter) that's another hurdle too...
14:57<nielsm>it's not easy :(
14:57<@Alberth>openttd is a moving target, and git can integrate changes with your modifications for you
14:57<andythenorth>we all start somewhere eh :P
14:58<andythenorth>but this is learning to swim by jumping off cliff into water
14:58<andythenorth>C++, git, editor, compiling, openttd
14:58<ANIKHTOS>not a problem
14:58<Wolf01>andythenorth: may be this?
14:58<ANIKHTOS>i will die young
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14:58<@Alberth>yep, learning c++ first, adding some git for fun and profit, then try to hack openttd
14:59<ANIKHTOS>well alberth that woudl a normal person do
14:59<andythenorth>Wolf01: could be, did you count the studs? o_O
14:59<ANIKHTOS>but i am a bit odd
14:59<andythenorth>Wolf01: looks very plausible
14:59<ANIKHTOS>so i will hack ottd while learnign c int he process of hacking
14:59<andythenorth>if you learn git basics fast, you will have a better time
15:00<andythenorth>and be less frustrated
15:00<@Alberth>and move faster forward
15:00<+glx>rule one: rebasing is better than merge
15:00<andythenorth>glx: that is highly subjective by project
15:00<andythenorth>rebasing is 'banned' where I work
15:00<ANIKHTOS>okey what is git??
15:00<nielsm>IMO first steps would be 1) install VS2017 2) clone openttd repository 3) get it to compile and work 4) try to make some basic changes and get them to compile
15:01<+glx>andythenorth: but you are many to work on the same branch I guess
15:01<andythenorth>ANIKHTOS: you want direct explanation, or "it's like xyz" explanation?
15:01<@Alberth> <- ANIKHTOS: git
15:01<ANIKHTOS>is it a programm?/
15:01<andythenorth>glx: we make individual feature branches
15:01<andythenorth>ANIKHTOS: it's a program
15:01<@Alberth>and a life-style :p
15:01<andythenorth>do you use anything like dropbox?
15:02<@Alberth>and a religion :p
15:02<nielsm>it's a directed acyclic graph
15:02<ANIKHTOS>git is linux kernel ??
15:02<andythenorth>any excuse to say DAG nielsm :)
15:02<LordAro>andythenorth: bad
15:02<andythenorth>I feel 10% smarter when I can say DAG
15:02<@Alberth>it was developed by the authors of the linux kernel
15:03<@Alberth>but it's generic, and used for many other progjects
15:03<@Alberth>in fact, it's the defacto standard VCS
15:03<nielsm>git is a program for managing source code for programs
15:03<nielsm>to keep track of who changed what, when
15:04<nielsm>and make sure multiple people can work on the same project at the same time
15:05<ANIKHTOS>okey a programm that helps many peopel work at same programm to develop
15:05<ANIKHTOS>we are goign somewhere now
15:06<ANIKHTOS>when you say clone you mean download every single file??
15:06<ANIKHTOS>or there is somewhere i a link tto downalod all in 1 go??
15:06<nielsm>"git clone" is a command that downloads everything
15:06<@Alberth>every single change of every file ever done in the past 10+ years
15:06<nielsm>a copy of all the current files, and also the data to be able to turn back history and see how all of the files looked in the past
15:06<@Alberth>and yes, "git clone" does that all in one command
15:07<ANIKHTOS>and that is 19gb
15:07<@Alberth>no, about 800
15:07<ANIKHTOS>is there a free git programm for windowns??
15:07<andythenorth>add 'learning shell' to ANIKHTOS list :)
15:08<ANIKHTOS>lol andy add!!!!!!!!!!!! no no thank you
15:08<@Alberth>several git clients exist for windows
15:09<@Alberth>but I don't know, as I use the plain git command-line (ie the "shell" as andy puts it)
15:09<ANIKHTOS>you use linux??
15:09<nielsm>I think visual studio includes a basic git client
15:09<Wolf01><Wolf01> The client is even integrated into VS <-
15:09<nielsm>you can also use github's client
15:10<@Alberth>yep, I use Linux
15:10<+glx>there's git for windows too
15:10<nielsm>yeah msys git
15:11<+glx>I use github desktop and git for windows
15:11<+glx>and msvc too
15:12<ANIKHTOS>this oen will do??
15:12<LordAro>probably better to install msys2, then install git from within it
15:12<+glx>I use this
15:12<@Alberth>just try it, if it doesn't work for you, find another (btter) one
15:13<@Alberth>repeat until you run out of programs, or you find a working tool for you
15:13<+glx>and there's a nice extension for powershell too
15:14<ANIKHTOS>i can not unzip it
15:14<ANIKHTOS>damn windown 7
15:15<andythenorth>should I buy this tank?
15:16<@Alberth>as long as it's virtual money, sure
15:16<__ln__>it's probably not real, it looks rendered.
15:16<@Alberth>unless you're buying real metal, in which case you need a big parking spot for it
15:18<andythenorth>it's real money :P
15:18<ANIKHTOS>its so sad when you want to learn somethign but you need to learn so many other thigns first before to learn that
15:19<andythenorth>yak shaving
15:20<@Alberth>I think it's a great thing, so many new things to explore, and play with!
15:21<ANIKHTOS>yes i am playing 3 different solutions
15:21<ANIKHTOS>i think i am in he mode to overcomplicate thign snow
15:23<ANIKHTOS>okey 1 question the game time more or less does everythign in days??
15:23<@Alberth>don't try to do everything at the same time, it's just too much to grasp all without getting totally confused
15:23<ANIKHTOS>i see the engines are set on days
15:24<ANIKHTOS>the date is set on days
15:24<@Alberth>most stuff runs in terms of days
15:24<@Alberth>except for animations mostly
15:24<ANIKHTOS>apart animation
15:25<ANIKHTOS>is anything that will check ticks??
15:25<@Alberth>I don't know, never looked into how time works in openttd
15:26<ANIKHTOS>the montly update for industry prodction
15:26<ANIKHTOS>is done every new month?? or every 30 days from the date you start the game??
15:26<@Alberth>I think I know around 30-40%, have some ideas about 40%, and no clue whatsoever on the remaining parts :)
15:27<ANIKHTOS>well thats more than me
15:27<@Alberth>industry production at least is monthly
15:27<ANIKHTOS>i knwo its montly but when it reset
15:27<@Alberth>you haven't looked at openttd code for 7 years yet :)
15:27<ANIKHTOS>at 1st of every month??
15:28<ANIKHTOS>well i kow it existed for a decade
15:28<ANIKHTOS>that count?? :p
15:28<@Alberth>there is probably more running on a monthly rhytm
15:29<ANIKHTOS>there is a new month call
15:29<ANIKHTOS>that call many fucntions
15:29<@Alberth>to know, find the relevant variables, and see how they are used
15:30<ANIKHTOS>#include "stdafx.h" #include "network/network.h" #include "network/network_func.h" #include "currency.h" #include "window_func.h" #include "settings_type.h" #include "date_func.h" #include "vehicle_base.h" #include "rail_gui.h" #include "linkgraph/linkgraph.h" #include "saveload/saveload.h" #include "safeguards.h"
15:30<ANIKHTOS>this are all the files that are connected with functiosn with thsi one??
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15:32<ANIKHTOS>IndustryMonthlyLoop() where i will find this function??
15:32<nielsm>.h and .hpp files are "headers", they declare data types and functions
15:32<andythenorth>you need a way to search all files in src
15:32<andythenorth>my text editor does it
15:32<andythenorth>so I search for function names
15:32<nielsm>and .cpp files actually contain the implementing code
15:33<nielsm>(which is not entirely correct with C++ templates and inline functions in classes and more)
15:34<ANIKHTOS>your text editor search multiple files??
15:35<nielsm>in visual studio I'd right click the function name and run "find all references"
15:35<nielsm>it'll find all places that name is used, either called or defined
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15:38<ANIKHTOS>i iwll create a frankestein in the end of code
15:39<nielsm>everyone learns best from mistakes :)
15:39<@Alberth>a proper C++ IDE allows jumping to the functions directly
15:40<@Alberth>really, invest the time to learn visual studio and c++
15:40<ANIKHTOS>i am learnign c++ slowly
15:40<ANIKHTOS>i see the syntax
15:40<ANIKHTOS>and then search for what it means
15:41<ANIKHTOS>and slowly i learn C++
15:41<ANIKHTOS>leanr if statement
15:41<ANIKHTOS>if else
15:41<LANJesus>in VS can't you also just ctrl+click the method/function names?
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17:22<ANIKHTOS>in the if statement lets say i say if a<5and a=5 what happens then?
17:23<FLHerne>Then it'll never be true
17:24<FLHerne>Same as `if (false) {}`
17:24<FLHerne>(unless `a` is some function call that has side-effects)
17:26<ANIKHTOS>well a is a counter
17:26<ANIKHTOS>to it will run as long as a<5 and when a=5 it will not
17:27<ANIKHTOS>thank you
17:27<FLHerne>Um, sorry
17:27<FLHerne>I misread your question
17:27<FLHerne>But coincidentally, my answer was about right anyway :P
17:28<FLHerne>The common way to do that is usually a for- or while-loop
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17:29<FLHerne>`for (int a = 0; a < 5; ++a) { <do thing with a> }`
17:29<ANIKHTOS>different langiuage handle the <> different when comes to equal
17:29<FLHerne>I don't think I've ever seen a language where < means <=
17:30<FLHerne>(in C++, <= means 'less than or equal')
17:30<ANIKHTOS>i am askign to be in safe side
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17:31<ANIKHTOS>well i think the if in this case i want to use is better
17:31<ANIKHTOS>it will do nothign until it reach the desired value
17:31<ANIKHTOS>where it will reset
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 11 00:00:49 2018