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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-06-21

---Logopened Thu Jun 21 00:00:02 2018
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 21 00:30:30 2018
---Logopened Thu Jun 21 00:30:39 2018
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02:16<andythenorth>moin
02:21<reldred>afternoon
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02:42<peter1138>So does nobody use the nightlies?
02:48<andythenorth>there aren't any :P
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03:05<LordAro>^
03:05<LordAro>someone should fix that
03:07<peter1138>Yes, but as far as I know, nobody has complained.
03:08<peter1138>Mind you, they might if NRT was merged ;)
03:08<reldred>hah
03:09<andythenorth>there is that yes :|
03:10<peter1138>The PR needs to be updated.
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03:12<andythenorth>oh yes
03:12<andythenorth>conflicts :|
03:14<andythenorth>well my Russian is not great :P
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03:53<peter1138>Does it matter? :P
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04:15<LordAro>yes.
04:19<peter1138>Why?
04:19<peter1138>andythenorth, does it matter?
04:19<andythenorth>haven't looked yet
04:19<andythenorth>if it's string conflicts, eh
04:19<peter1138>All you do is apply the changes to your current version.
04:19<@Rubidium>ofcourse it matters, otherwise most of us wouldn't have the job we have now
04:20<andythenorth>I'll rebase my fork later and see what happens
04:20<andythenorth>now is to work
04:21<andythenorth>also Bitbucket is returning ascii art on successful git push
04:21<andythenorth>which is confusing
04:21<peter1138>Hah
04:25<peter1138>Well, the russian conflict is very simple and doesn't require understanding russian.
04:28<peter1138>And the other one is pretty simple.
04:29<peter1138>Hmm, can use the web editor? Hmm!
04:30<peter1138>No you can't, because we use tabs as tabs, and the editor uses spaces as tabs :S
04:31<andythenorth>:x
04:32<peter1138>Actually you can, by copying and pasting existing tabs o_O
04:32<peter1138>However...
04:32<andythenorth>that's how I do it in my editor :P
04:32<peter1138>You can test the changes to ensure there's not a typo.
04:32<peter1138>...
04:32<peter1138>You *CAN'T* test the changes to ensure there's not a typo.
04:33<andythenorth>oh
04:33<andythenorth>what changed in your NRT branch? :o
04:33<andythenorth>you're upstream to me :P
04:35<andythenorth>maybe I should not touch that
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10:08<dihedral>greetings
10:15<FLHerne>dihedral: Afternoon
10:15<andythenorth>it's like the past
10:15<andythenorth>is belugas here too?
10:16<LordAro>@seen Bjarni
10:16<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 37 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 57 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
10:16<andythenorth>@seen darkvater
10:16<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 12 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Darkvater> I'm looking for a distributed fs to setup my own private cloud using sbc's
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>the past was never actually like the past
10:17<nielsm>"missing person: left 12 weeks ago to search for a distributed file system"
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10:34<nielsm>I'm tempted to add a "bikeshed" tag to the "Update of README file" PR
10:34<nielsm>;)
10:34<andythenorth>nah, it's not bikeshedding to have good docs :)
10:34<andythenorth>although 'macOS' makes me sick in my mouth
10:34<nielsm>whether to write macOS or Mac OS X is
10:35<dihedral>darkvater - recently saw him on linked in
10:35<LordAro>i still call it osx
10:35<andythenorth>me too
10:35<LordAro>but equally i have absolutely no use for it
10:35<andythenorth>and I use the damn thing
10:35<dihedral>but we have a rubidium and a TrueBrain - we need not cherrish those old times
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10:35<andythenorth>shall we just highlight people annoyingly dihedral?
10:36<andythenorth>you choose who
10:36<LordAro>i choose andythenorth
10:36*LordAro throws pokeball
10:36<andythenorth>what about glx?
10:36<andythenorth>not here
10:36<dihedral>i do not know what you mean, andythenorth
10:36<dihedral>:-P
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10:45<@Rubidium>andythenorth: why would that make you sick in your mouth? It's just nostalgia ;)
10:46<andythenorth>mostly because it's 'Mac'
10:46<andythenorth>not 'mac'
10:46<andythenorth>and the shape of 'macOS' is horribly ugly
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10:50<@Rubidium>oh joy... our "friends" at apple call it macOS now (previously Mac OS X and OS X)
10:51<@Rubidium>so useful to rename your product to have the same name as in the past
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>the name is dead, long live the neame
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>-e
10:55<nielsm>windows went from version 4 to 2000 to NaN to 7, 8, 10
10:55<nielsm>doesn't have to make sense
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but they didn't go back to Windows NT
10:56<dihedral>servers still count 2008, 2012, 2016 ...
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>what's worse is that there's an internal numbering and a marketing numbering that don't seem to have anything to do with each other, but both are used in different places to present to the user
10:58<dihedral>devs and branding teams :-D
11:02*dihedral started writing a tcp admin thingy in tcl...
11:02<dihedral>just for the fun of it
11:02<dihedral>tcl is fun
11:02<dihedral>...
11:02*dihedral shuts up
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11:31<nielsm>trying to add measurement of time taken to draw just viewports now...
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11:40<nielsm>seems to be working :) https://0x0.st/s9Hu.mp4
11:41<andythenorth>o_O
11:42<LordAro>nice
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11:43<ANIKHTOS>nhello nielsm i watch the varibles as you suggeted
11:43<ANIKHTOS>there is a bug
11:45<ANIKHTOS>nielsm how must stress the statistic put on the cpu?? how much perfomance you loose when you run them ? is there a way to know??
11:46<nielsm>drawing the windows that shows the framerate and performance numbers does cost CPU time, but taking the measurements doesn't take much in particular
11:52<ANIKHTOS>so is there a way to calculate a ^ loss because of the measurements running??
11:53<ANIKHTOS>it would give a better idea to slwo machines how the game runs for them
11:53<andythenorth>well
11:53<andythenorth>one could write a tool to measure the performance...
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>you can't know how much you change the value by measuring it. that's the core of Heisenbergs law
11:56<ANIKHTOS>an estiamtion would nto be usefull ???
11:59<andythenorth>run the same savegame on FFWD for timed runs
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12:26<ANIKTHOS>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/paweslopo added comments to evry lien to every variable what it does
12:26<ANIKTHOS>now the code is easier to read??
12:26<ANIKTHOS>or still i am nto writitng the code as i ought to write it>>
12:30<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s9XN.jpg <- slowco :P
12:32<ANIKTHOS>nice game nielsm
12:32<ANIKTHOS>in a game i either focus on cargo oron passangers
12:33<nielsm>it's not mine though
12:34<nielsm>one I downloaded to use as an extreme stress test
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12:39<ANIKTHOS>so in the code i posted the bug is line 15 is not executed the first N times !?!??! but there is execution of code line 24 to 30!?!??!
12:39<ANIKTHOS>now if i change the line 24 if (_dayh > _daym){ to if (_dayh == _daym){ line 15 is executed but now line 24 is not executed for N times
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12:43<peter1138>nielsm, 4 fps! o_O
12:43<nielsm>the ///< type of comments are normally only used for declarations, specifically fields in structs/classes and values in enums
12:43<peter1138>Yeah but we're strange.
12:43<nielsm>for regular code short comments just use //
12:44<peter1138>I wonder if the measurements are starting to affect performance? :)
12:44<LordAro>"starting"
12:44<ANIKTHOS>thanks nielsm i just added comments
12:44<LordAro>hide the graphs and see what you get
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12:44<ANIKTHOS>i was waiting for the code to be finsihed to add them since i still play with it
12:44<peter1138>LordAro, sure the graphs will
12:44<nielsm>I hope the actual measuring doesn't have any appreciable effect, but painting the framerate GUI does take some time
12:44<peter1138>LordAro, but I mean the actual measuring.
12:45<peter1138>That level of detail does look really nice though :)
12:45<LordAro>oh, well i'd hope not
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12:45<LordAro>what is it, an extra couple of stores every tick?
12:45<nielsm>yeah
12:46<nielsm>64 bit integer math and some stores
12:46<peter1138>Hopefully it's just one measurement per vehicle type? May not be though.
12:46<nielsm>I don't know how fast/slow QPC is on windows but since it's for performance measurement, I assume it's not so slow as to affect performance significantly
12:46<peter1138>:)
12:46<nielsm>nope, have to call it in Train::Tick, RoadVehicle::Tick, Ship::Tick, Aircraft::Tick
12:47<nielsm>since they're all assembled in one large vehicle vector
12:47<peter1138>Damn :(
12:47<peter1138>That's a lot of measurements then.
12:47<nielsm>yeah...
12:48<peter1138>I'll see in a second :)
12:48<peter1138>Er, if this is pushed.
12:48<nielsm>still each measurement should be trivial compared to the rest of the tick processing
12:48<nielsm>just pushed it
12:48<nielsm>ANIKTHOS, are you sure your variables are being initialized correctly?
12:49<ANIKTHOS>well they are intiialized by copu earlier
12:49<ANIKTHOS>variable=0:
12:50<ANIKTHOS>variable=1;
12:50<peter1138>Hmm, still hovering between 7.5 and 8fps on that same save.
12:50<nielsm>oh oops, I mistaked a make
12:50<peter1138>Maybe slightly slower but not massively.
12:51<nielsm>if you collapse the main framerate window it will show just the basic rate in the caption, in debug mode I get a significant difference between full details and just basic rate rendering :P
12:51<nielsm>in debug builds*
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the string assembly takes some time as well as the actual redrawing?
12:53<peter1138>Hmm, gameloop is still 16ms with all vehicles paused
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12:53<peter1138>and train ticks is still 6ms with all trains paused o_O
12:53<peter1138>I suppose there *are* a lot more rail vehicles.
12:59<nielsm>there's more roadvehs than trains, but more train cars than roadvehs
13:00<peter1138>Yeah, I said rail vehicles rather than trains.
13:00<peter1138>So...
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13:00<peter1138>I typed "fps" in the console on a dedicated server.
13:00<peter1138>It crashed :p
13:00<nielsm>;_;
13:00<peter1138>Fails when no readings have been taken.
13:00<nielsm>ah
13:00<peter1138>paused on start
13:00<nielsm>div by zero?
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>why is a jurassic park tycoon-ish game age 16+?
13:01<peter1138>and also there'll be no sound.
13:01<peter1138>No, min <= max
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>why would a 12-year-old not enjoy a trex mowing through your visitors?
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13:05<nielsm>peter1138 try this: https://0x0.st/s9X2.txt
13:05<Wolf01>o/
13:05<nielsm>that should also let it skip video and sound when it's not doing that
13:05<ANIKTHOS>hello wolf01
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13:07<peter1138>Hmm, network mode is totally fucked up with that savegame.
13:12<peter1138>Maybe there's a problem with the network protocol when the server & client can't keep up.
13:18<peter1138>nielsm, yeah that stops it crashing
13:18<nielsm>pushed that fix for the fps command, also fixed it to not print rate numbers that are meaningless
13:18<peter1138>Lots of fps values that aren't in the gui :p
13:20<nielsm>I think I'll also add back a semi-collapsed state to the framerate window where it doesn't show all the data elements
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13:25<peter1138>Found an issue.
13:25<peter1138>You calculate the time of GameLoop()
13:25<peter1138>However the actually gameloop is StateGameLoop()
13:25<peter1138>-ly
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13:27<peter1138>I guess the stuff in GameLoop() itself doesn't need to be measured, cos it's not the actual game loop.
13:28<peter1138>And the network lag issue appears to be because the client is ALWAYS playing catch up with the server, and so barely has a chance to render.
13:30<peter1138>There we go, moved the timer to StateGameLoop()
13:30<peter1138>Simulation rate: 7.93 frames/s
13:30<peter1138>Graphics frame rate: 0.60 frames/s
13:30<peter1138>o_O
13:31<peter1138>It was running at ~ 4 fps for a bit but then collapsed.
13:34<LordAro>ooi, why "frames/s" rather than "fps" ?
13:36<nielsm>because that's more stylish
13:36<nielsm>:P
13:36<LordAro>:p
13:44<Wolf01>:P
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13:50<andythenorth>but is it done?
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13:55<LordAro>yes
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14:02<andythenorth>ok
14:02<andythenorth>back to CSS for me then
14:04<nielsm>more fun with scaling... https://0x0.st/s98Z.png
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>why does the scale say "s" when the label says "ms"?
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14:33<nielsm>the peak label is always in milliseconds, the scale uses seconds when appropriate
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14:36<nielsm>on the idea that you want to see the full precision of the peak, but don't need to read superfluous zeroes on the axis
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15:23<ANIKTHOS>does anyone want to re produce the bug and tell me if they also have it??
15:29<peter1138>I want to eat these home-grown-from-my-garden strawberries, raspberries and gooseberries.
15:30<nielsm>ugh I can't figure out how to handle "paused" states in a reasonable way...
15:31<peter1138>If pause, don't update the measurements?
15:31<nielsm>the gap in time causes things to be weird when you unpause
15:33<andythenorth>peter1138: you can
15:34<peter1138>andythenorth, I did!
15:40<andythenorth>Good!
15:42<andythenorth>well I should fix NRT eh
15:42<andythenorth>but it's recycling day :|
15:46<Wolf01><peter1138> I want to eat these home-grown-from-my-garden strawberries, raspberries and gooseberries. <- the whatberries?
15:54<peter1138>Nah, no whatberries.
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15:56<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: i think if paused the measurements should just be 0?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>the parts that aren't executed i mean. there's still like drawing and stuff going on
16:02<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s9KT.mp4
16:02<nielsm>how about this way?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>don't like it
16:10<nielsm>IMO it's the most appropriate way to handle it, since the game loop is supposed to be "in stasis" with no time passing in it
16:11<nielsm>(also it took a bunch of care to get working so you better damn appreciate it!!! ;)
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>if i'm watching my realtime applications, i want all the graphs be in sync
16:15<ANIKTHOS> if ( _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor==_dayn){ this line and this line if (_dayn == _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor){
16:15<ANIKTHOS>whats the difference??
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>ANIKTHOS: make a printf() before this line, watch the values of the variables in an actual run
16:17<ANIKTHOS>i change the status bar in the game and i display the variables i have created
16:18<ANIKTHOS>one lien works okey
16:18<ANIKTHOS>the other not
16:18<ANIKTHOS>but they ought to be the same??
16:19<ANIKTHOS>how to i use th eprintif???
16:19<ANIKTHOS>to get a report??
16:19<nielsm>printf("dayn = %d\n", _dayn);
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16:20<nielsm>the \n at the end is to make a newline (line break)
16:20<nielsm>the %d is a formatting code for "decimal" (i.e. integer value to be shown in normal base 10)
16:21<nielsm>printf("stf = %d, dayn = %d\n", _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor, _dayn);
16:21<nielsm>prints two variables
16:21<ANIKTHOS>where it will print them write them so i can see them??
16:22<nielsm>to the console window
16:22<nielsm>I guess you only see that one if you're making debug builds, I don't know if you are or not
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16:23<ANIKTHOS>i type make
16:23<ANIKTHOS>i shoudl type make -g??
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16:24<nielsm>I think it's a configure option to get debug builds
16:25<ANIKTHOS>but i can already watch the variables what value they get
16:27<ANIKTHOS>the bug disapeared when i reverse the logic question
16:29<ANIKTHOS>for one reason it takes the value from this logic quesiton to make the bug apear that many times
16:29<ANIKTHOS>reversing the question secodn part now is 0 so the bug will apear 0 times thus never
16:29<ANIKTHOS>!!?!??!
16:30<LordAro>pretty sure make -g isn't a thing
16:30<ANIKTHOS>i was readign gdt manual and it was make - somethign
16:30<ANIKTHOS>make -o for optimized code
16:31<Wolf01>'night
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16:31<nielsm>no those are for gcc and g++
16:31<nielsm>not for make
16:31<LordAro>you do not get to touch those directly
16:31<LordAro>(yes yes i know about CFLAGS)
16:31<LordAro>you should not need to
16:32<peter1138>nielsm, assertion failed at line 656 of framerate_gui.cpp
16:32<peter1138>newpoint.x <= lastpoint.x
16:32<nielsm>ugh I thought I weeded out all possibilities of that
16:34<nielsm>do you know which graph triggered it, and what situation?
16:36<ANIKTHOS>well good news bug is suppressed to not apear, bad news i do not have any clue why it happened i will take the small win
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>ANIKTHOS: try "./configure --enable-debug=1"
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>also, the printf might be visible on the ingame console, not sure
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>open the ingame console with the key left of [1]
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>(actual key may differ between keyboard layouts)
16:46<ANIKTHOS>si there a way to see if a lien is executed or not??
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>that's what the printf is for
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>or, i guess, you could learn gdb and set a breakpoint
16:48<ANIKTHOS>lol i have not leart github
16:48<ANIKTHOS>not leanred to make the diff files yet
16:48<ANIKTHOS>and the list to learn get bigger and bigger
16:51<ANIKTHOS>teh thigns shown in console can be saves in a log file??
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17:07<nielsm>gn
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20:31<ANIKTHOS>okey change the code and now there are no bugs !?!?!? but i do nto get why the bug was there to begin with grrrrr
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22:31<ANIKTHOS>anyone here or all sleeping??
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22:45<ANIKTHOS>good night all see you tomorow
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 22 00:00:04 2018