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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-06-22

---Logopened Fri Jun 22 00:00:04 2018
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07:45<peter1138>Well, that's odd. I managed to get 4 portions - 4 days - out of a big bag of crisps. They normally go in one sitting...
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>that never happens
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>with snacks like that, the bag size doesn't matter. as soon as it's open, it's empty
07:49<dihedral>good luck
08:07<planetmaker> <-- hm, I like how the actual contributors to a specific release are thanked in the release notes. Especially also the distinction between new contributors and returning
08:08<planetmaker>dihedral, I give that bag a half-life time of about 60 minutes :D
08:08<andythenorth>planetmaker: good point
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, when i buy such stuff i must switch my mental heuristic from "look at the kg price and pick the lower one" to "pick the smaller bag, even though the per kg price is higher"
08:08<andythenorth>and we have lots of new contributors
08:09<planetmaker>yep, that's why :)
08:09<andythenorth>so glad we ditched flyspray and forums
08:09<planetmaker>well... forums?
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>nobody ditched the forum... except some ragequitters
08:09<planetmaker>they still are there. But yeah, seems that switching to github did quite a lot to put some new life to OpenTTD development
08:09<andythenorth>we ditched them as the pipeline for development
08:10<planetmaker>Quite happy to see that.
08:10<andythenorth>we did it by accident years ago
08:10<andythenorth>we just never mentioned it :P
08:11<andythenorth>'Development' should be 'Patchpacks' ;)
08:11<andythenorth>and 'Suggestions' should just be shuttered
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>github tickets are fine for deeper one-to-one or one-to-few communications, but forums are better for things that need a larger audience
08:12<andythenorth>can't we just leave the larger audience to reddit?
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>you cannot have a "we need some input to find a railtype consensus" discussion on github
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>i have never used reddit
08:12<andythenorth>me neither
08:12<andythenorth>but peopl do
08:13<andythenorth>I think the forums are incredibly poor for any form of consensus
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>that may be true, but github is definitely worse
08:14<andythenorth>no argument
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08:14<andythenorth>I don't have a solution for consensus, except irc
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>"democracy is the worst type of government. except for all others"
08:14<andythenorth>I also think forums are accidentally quite toxic
08:15<andythenorth>specifically tt-forums
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>nah, you haven't seen really toxic forums then :p
08:15<andythenorth>I have
08:15<andythenorth>but they're usually deliberate
08:15<andythenorth>ED or whatever
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>i've gotten threatening hatemail from posting into a forum once
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08:28<peter1138>dihedral, cheetos are not crisps, they're just disgusting.
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08:30<peter1138>tt-forums is very tame.
08:30<dihedral>peter1138, but the size of the bag....
08:30<dihedral>wanna see you finish that off in one sitting
08:30<peter1138>Yeah, no thanks.
08:31<peter1138>I'm slim these days :p
08:31<dihedral>apparently pm only needs 30 minutes
08:31<peter1138>He said 60 minutes to get through half of it.
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think the problem is the other half :p
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>also, i don't really have a clue what cheetos taste like
08:38<peter1138>Cheesey, but not good cheesey.
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08:49<andythenorth>it's snail_UES_
08:49<snail_UES_>hi andythenorth
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08:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't actually like cheese
08:56<andythenorth>cheese economy in FIRS?
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>except when it was heated, like on pizza and stuff
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09:05<peter1138>Plenty of nice cheeses that wouldn't work on a pizza.
09:08<peter1138>Damn, now I want a nice cheese platter.
09:08<peter1138>gruyere is perfect for pizza, apparently. oops.
09:09<peter1138>Stilton pizza!
09:12<andythenorth>peter1138 -> sainsburys
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09:17<peter1138>They have a good range of cheese?
09:19<dihedral>they have good forzen pizza :-D
09:35<LordAro>peter1138: am without bike until tuesday :(
09:41<peter1138>Oh no!
09:41<peter1138>How come?
09:41<peter1138>Also, just add more :D
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09:43<andythenorth>only 1 bike?
09:44<andythenorth>that's admin failure
09:45<LordAro>peter1138: in t'shop get its drivechain replaced
09:45<LordAro>or chainset
09:45<LordAro>i don't know terminology
09:46<LordAro>chain, cassette, rear dereilleur, large chainwheel
09:46<LordAro>much expense
09:46<peter1138>If you wore out a chainring, the chain was long gone :p
09:46<LordAro>but i've not been spending that money on a car, so eh
09:47<peter1138>This is why you have a cheapish steel bike on the side.
09:47<LordAro>i do
09:47<LordAro>but it has no rear brake
09:47<peter1138>Oh. Well it needs to be rideable!
09:47<LordAro>and there's a distinct possibility i might be able to get rid of it this weekend anyway
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10:04<peter1138>Rid of it? You need N+1 bikes!
10:04<peter1138>Hmm, maybe I should do a ride this evening.
10:04<peter1138>Or merge NRT when andythenorth updates it.
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10:07<ANIKHTOS>hello how are you today??
10:15<ANIKHTOS>damn i delete yesterday the files i have changed lol now i have to make them again
10:16<nielsm>learn git
10:16<nielsm>and you wouldn't have that problem
10:22<ANIKHTOS>nielsm can i use printif to see if a function is executed??
10:23<ANIKHTOS>printf(functionname?/) or printif only owrks for variables??
10:23<nielsm>just put a printf call as the first thing in the function
10:24<nielsm>printf("now inside thefunction");
10:25<ANIKHTOS>i have the feeling that it skips a function
10:27<LordAro>i can guarantee you have not found a compiler bug
10:27<LordAro>it is an issue in your logic
10:29<ANIKHTOS>if ( _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor==_dayn){ this line
10:29<ANIKHTOS>and this line if (_dayn== _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor){
10:29<ANIKHTOS>whats the difference lordara??
10:29<@Alberth>none, it's elsewhere
10:29<ANIKHTOS>one makes the game to bug and not execute code
10:29<ANIKHTOS>and the other is okey
10:30<@Alberth>proof it
10:30<ANIKHTOS>when i runt the code with ine lien i have bug
10:30<ANIKHTOS>when i run the code with the other line
10:30<ANIKHTOS>i have no problem
10:30<ANIKHTOS>this is not proof??
10:30<ANIKHTOS>no other change only this line
10:30<@Alberth>which two revisions do you talk about?
10:31<ANIKHTOS>if (_dayn== _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor){ this line make the gane to bug
10:31<@Alberth>I am sure you are convinced that's the only change, but it defies all logic
10:31<@Alberth>I need 2 revision hashes in a git repo
10:32<@Alberth>and proof that one of them has a problem and the other one has not
10:33<ANIKHTOS>okey how i make them in the git the 2 hashes
10:34<@Alberth>verify a version has a problem, commit, change code, verify there is no problem, commit
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: that's missing a bunch of steps like "install git", and "make a clone" :p
10:35<ANIKHTOS>well git is isntalled witht he compiller packages
10:36<@Alberth>however I don't see how you are going to get "no problem" after this change
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10:37<ANIKHTOS>well i am not gettign the issue any more
10:37<ANIKHTOS>and thats what i am askign all this days
10:37<ANIKHTOS>the change i amke ought to change nothign but i see a difference in the game
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>so what happens if you change it back?
10:38<ANIKHTOS>i get the bug again
10:38<@Alberth>what change are you making exactly
10:38<@Alberth>not on chat, in a repository
10:38<ANIKHTOS>can i upload all change file sin the forum???
10:39<ANIKHTOS>the 2 date.cpp will be changed only by 1 line
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>ANIKHTOS: we need the full code, that is easiest with git
10:39<ANIKHTOS>all changed files are not all the code??
10:39<@Alberth>you cleaned the project and did a full rebuild between the changes?
10:40<ANIKHTOS>clean ?? delete everythign and try again??
10:40<@Alberth>you are not running a compiler cache?
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10:40<nielsm>clean means "make clean"
10:40<@Alberth>just remove all built artefacts, and build it again
10:40<nielsm>that's a special make command that removes the compiled files but keeps all source code
10:41<nielsm>to make sure nothing is unintentionally left behind from an old compile
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>all the the temporary files that the compiler creates
10:41<ANIKHTOS>okey wait i will 2 2 fresh compiles
10:42<ANIKHTOS>1 with one code and 1 witht he other code
10:43<@Alberth>result shouldn't change, but it does, so it's about elimination possible other sources of the error
10:45<ANIKHTOS>so is it recomended to use the make clean every time??
10:45<ANIKHTOS>or compile from cache thats faster??
10:46<nielsm>a compiler cache can save time recompiling, but you need to be really careful if usince one since it can introduce errors
10:47<andythenorth>peter1138: update what again?
10:48<ANIKHTOS>so not recomended go the slow way
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10:50<peter1138>andythenorth, fix the conflict.
10:50<andythenorth>oh such conflicts :)
10:51<peter1138>Easy to resolve :p
10:51<andythenorth>"Was the merge successful [y/n]?"
10:52<andythenorth>REMOTE is more likely to be correct, no?
10:54<andythenorth>can't resolve the road_gui.cpp conflicts
10:55<andythenorth>it's the fix to
11:05<peter1138>For the language change, you want the newer text.
11:06<peter1138>For road_gui.cpp you need to apply both sets of changes.
11:08<peter1138>Specifically reapply the "_cur_roadtype_identifier.Pack() << 5 | (_ctrl_pressed << 2)" change to the new code, and make sure DDSP_CONVERT_ROAD is still in place.
11:08<peter1138>Something like
11:10<nielsm>peter1138 what's so bad about auto? :(
11:11<peter1138>It hides the type.
11:11<peter1138>I realise that's kinda the point.
11:11<peter1138>You don't have to care. But we care ;)
11:14<LordAro>depends on the context, i'd say
11:14<LordAro>shouldn't use auto if there's no reference to the type anywhere
11:14<LordAro>auto foo = bar();
11:15<LordAro>but if it's something like a constructor, or the type really doesn't matter (loop iterators)...
11:15<nielsm>auto bar = foo + 1; // will "obviously" be same type as foo
11:16<andythenorth>where is Wolf? :P
11:16<andythenorth>@seen Wolf01
11:16<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 45 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <Wolf01> 'night
11:23<nielsm>peter1138 how about lines like this? auto item_size = GetStringBoundingBox(STR_FRAMERATE_VALUE);
11:23<nielsm>IMO that's sufficiently clear
11:24<peter1138>1. Not really.
11:24<peter1138>2. We don't do that anywhere else.
11:24<nielsm>auto caption = this->GetWidget<NWidgetLeaf>(WID_FRW_CAPTION);
11:25<nielsm>in that I'd be repeating NWidgetLeaf as the type
11:30*nielsm avoids the problem in a different way
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11:31<ANIKHTOS>great i lost the files and now i can not compile the files i have are missing some changes grrrrrr
11:32<@Alberth>maybe you want a BaseWidget :)
11:33<@Alberth>widgets are extended with their functionality, but in general you should use the more generic type, imho
11:33<@Alberth>learn to use git, ANIKHTOS ?
11:34<nielsm>in this case it's SetDataTip I need from the control
11:34<@Alberth>ah, fair enough
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause> <-- i think the alt text from that doesn't work anymore
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11:58<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: ok, that clarification is necessary :p
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12:03<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: :p
12:04<ANIKHTOS>i will go to the corner to cry see you all tomorow now i have to figure otu what changes i doen last 2 days :-(
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, he could have spent these 2 days learning git
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>also, usually the second implementation is better anyway. under the assumption that you learned how to avoid the mistakes from the first try
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12:21<MasterDesaster>Hi, I'm currently having an issue with OpenTTD (1.8.0) but can't really find a solution. If I try to pan the minimap everything goes crazy and I'm stuck in a corner of the map.
12:21<MasterDesaster>If anyone would have an idea that would be pretty neat.
12:22<MasterDesaster>The one thread google shows me doesn't have a solution that seems to work for me.
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, that was meant to be solved?
12:22<LordAro>not fixed in any released version, iirc
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>try a nightly
12:22<LordAro>the workaround is to use arrowkeys
12:23<MasterDesaster>I'm able to scroll the big regular game map but the minimap (the one that shows industries, all the towns with names etc.) is bugging out.
12:23<MasterDesaster>I'll give a nightly build a shot.
12:24<LordAro>it occurs to me a prebuilt nightly might not work either...
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12:27<MasterDesaster>Nope, nightly has the same bug for me. Guess I'll just work around it for now then.
12:29<MasterDesaster>Could/Should I report it in some way?
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't hurt
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>open a ticket at
12:31<MasterDesaster>Will do. I'll try to figure out some steps to make it reproduceable. Seems like it migt actually be an issue with my machine ... all of the sudden it's working in the nightly - most of the time.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>iirc we had some issues a few months ago, where windows changed the way mouse pointer movement was controlled. because when scrolling, we need to know how much the pointer moved, but also move it back to the original position
12:37<MasterDesaster>I'll try to get some testing with a regular mouse. I'm currently on a laptop so the touchpad (dirvers) might be doing funky stuff.
12:38<MasterDesaster>Thanks for your help and input!
12:42<peter1138>Current nightly is out of date.
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12:43<nielsm>are you on windows, mac, linux?
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12:44<MasterDesaster>Windows 10 1607 (Enterprise LTSB)
12:44<nielsm>and you're using a touchpad to scroll?
12:44<nielsm>with two-finger gesture scrolling, or click-drag panning?
12:46<MasterDesaster>Those gestures should be off I'll to find them again. ... Looks like the menu for that is currently missing for some reason.
12:47<MasterDesaster>And I can't currently use them to scroll in other programs.
12:48<nielsm>I don't think OTTD does anything to specifically intercept multitouch gestures on windows, just take in "translated" mouse wheel style messages
12:48<MasterDesaster>But it's a good point. After seeing that it kind of works sometimes it's one of the suspicions that popped up for me that the touchpad gestures might be funky. hence the idea to test with a regular mouse
12:49<nielsm>maybe I should dig out my own laptop for a bit...
12:49<nielsm>or try with that HTPC wireless-keyboard-with-touchpad I have around
12:50<MasterDesaster>Don't do too much work. I'm probably some kind of special snow flake.
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>MasterDesaster: doesn't mean the issue shouldn't be isolated and hopefully fixed
12:53<nielsm>okay two-finger gestures in the main view definitely just do zooming for me
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12:54<nielsm>but can't reproduce any problems with scrolling or moving around the minimap
12:58<MasterDesaster>Changing locaiton, be back in a bit
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13:30<nielsm>peter1138: Have you been able to reproduce any assert(newpoint.x <= lastpoint.x) errors? I mean I could take the line out and the worst that would happen was some visual glitching in a couple corner cases, but fixing it properly is preferable...
13:35<LordAro>nielsm: ooh, i managed that last night - i opened a couple of graphs, turned on fast forward, then opened the sound graph
13:42<LordAro>there was something weire about the graphs on fast forward as well, like it wae only using half the width of the graph to display it
13:42<nielsm>that's because it records 512 points of data
13:42<nielsm>if more than that is required to cover two seconds, it can't render it all
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13:55<nielsm>but I do reproduce the assert with the sound graph
13:57<nielsm>hmm is there a good way to get a long list of values out of the debugger? :(
13:57<nielsm>I'd really like to fetch the durations and timestamps arrays into excel and look at the numbers
13:59<@Alberth>write a function that prints them or writes them to file, call that function from the debugger
14:01<@Alberth>maybe you can tune the output of the debugger as well
14:01<@Alberth>but no idea :)
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14:08<nielsm>made a loop in the code that dumps it all to console
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14:14<ANIKHTOS>i foudn the files only lost last night changes which is nto that important
14:14<ANIKHTOS>now make the 2 clean compiles
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14:25<ANIKHTOS>opera auto update grrr does anyone use opera portable?? and knows how to disable auto update??
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14:32<nielsm>I'm staring at the numbers and everything looks fine... maybe it's a race?
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14:46<ANIKHTOS>i am making a mess in my github account
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14:55<@Alberth>that's normal while learning git
14:56<andythenorth>I don't understand how to do a merge without doing a merge
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14:59<@Alberth>git merge --ff-only ?
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14:59<ANIKHTOS>okey i make an empty repository
14:59<@Alberth>or git rebase could also do 'merge'
14:59<nielsm>andythenorth, git pull --rebase ?
15:00<andythenorth>yeah but I have conflicts
15:00<andythenorth>it's probably all fine
15:00<@Alberth>that will then happen with any option you pick
15:01<andythenorth>the problem I see
15:01<andythenorth>is that I have to make manual edits to resolve the conflict
15:01<andythenorth>but NRT needs to be a single commit
15:01<andythenorth>so eh
15:01<andythenorth>moar git :P
15:01<@Alberth>1 fix conflict 2 rebase -i to fix the commit sequence
15:09<+glx>and of course don't push before the commit sequence is fixed
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15:32<nielsm>okay, the bug was integer overflow
15:33<ANIKHTOS>which bug ??
15:33<nielsm>in my graph drawing code
15:34<nielsm> <- it was drawing at the coordinates in "x", instead of at those in "correct x"
15:36<ANIKHTOS>good you solve it :-_
15:36<nielsm>multiplying values in the range around 10-20 million with 200 will yield values in the 2 to 4 billion range, which overflows 32 bit integers
15:37<nielsm>obvious in retrospect :)
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15:38<ANIKHTOS>hello wolf
15:39<ANIKHTOS>in retrospective a lot is obvious th eproblem is when you are trying to do smehtign there are no obvious
15:39<LordAro>nielsm: ha
15:41<nielsm>pushed :)
15:43<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
15:43<LordAro>nielsm: you've taken a look at the warnings under gcc, right?
15:43<nielsm>not yet
15:44<nielsm>going to check those out when the current CI builds finish
15:45<LordAro>nielsm: ah, i see what you mean about the graph width
15:45<LordAro>still looks really weird though, like it's broken
15:45<LordAro>could it not scale accordingly?
15:46<nielsm>yeah I could try to decrease horz scale to 1 second if data is really tight
15:54<nielsm>any chance of moving the VS projects to use /W4 instead of /W3 ?
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15:57<nielsm>hmm it does make a lot of noise... :s
15:59<nielsm>that's with /Wall enabled
16:00<LordAro>that's surely just recompiling framerate_gui.cpp
16:00<LordAro>rather than everything :p
16:01<nielsm>I like that it even produces warnings from the system headers
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16:05<@Alberth>padding warnings are a bit silly
16:05<LordAro>about adding padding too, the worst of the warnings
16:06<@Alberth>ok, a lot silly :)
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16:16<nielsm>hopefully this is better...
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16:56<nielsm>hm one more warning from clang and gcc, pushing a fix for it next time I have other changes anyway
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17:06<ANIKHTOS>re writing my code to use less variables
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18:04<ANIKHTOS>adiso see you all tomorow
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 23 00:00:05 2018