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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-06-27

---Logopened Wed Jun 27 00:00:11 2018
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02:18<andythenorth>o/
02:18<peter1138>o\
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05:49<rima>well..
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05:51<rima>which room is reddit room?
05:51<peter1138>There's a hole in the ground.
05:51<peter1138>#reddit? I dunno
05:53<rima>do you know any other ottd room ?
05:53<peter1138>I don't know the reddit openttd room.
05:53<andythenorth>go north
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05:53<peter1138>It'll probably tell you on reddit?
05:53<andythenorth>I don't use it, but https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/
05:55<rima>is that a room? or web link? how to join it? im not connecting with a browser
05:56<ST2>here type /join #/r/openttd
05:56<rima>hey ST2 loser
05:57<rima>ok ! hey ST2 winner
05:58<ST2>whatever, type what I said ^^
05:58<rima>xD
05:59<rima>idk y im lagging so much inside game
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you've been eaten by a grue
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>rima: i think what you're looking for is #/r/openttd
06:11<andythenorth>what date is the grue?
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>1982?
06:12<andythenorth>tbh, grue and bleen weren't the most interesting things in my philosophy degree
06:12<andythenorth>which wasn't in itself, very interesting
06:13<andythenorth>but possibly they were just badly taught
06:13<andythenorth>if anybody wants to play https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_riddle_of_induction
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure what the problem is
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06:22<andythenorth>that's linguistic philosophy :P
06:23<andythenorth>I don't know if anyone knows what the problem is
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06:59<Eddi|zuHause>if the problem is "how can we be sure about predictions of the future?", then the answer is "we can't"... that's why we have statistics, and why most of the great minds of history were wrong about most things (Aristotle, Freud, ...)
07:00<andythenorth>oh Eddi|zuHause
07:00<andythenorth>statistics isn't really valid in philosophical discussions
07:00<andythenorth>"that's just empiricism"
07:01<andythenorth>other things not valid: the scientific method, and all French philosophy ever
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>of course statistics isn't "valid", that's why "we can't"
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07:11<andythenorth>however bayesian statistics are allowed in philosophical discussions
07:11<andythenorth>for some reason
07:12<andythenorth>probably papers can be written about that
07:12<andythenorth>academic undergraduate philosophy is frankly weird
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09:28<Borg>hi.. I got hit by weird issue a min ago..
09:28<Borg>on my long running server..1.8.0
09:28<Borg>I tried to send 2 trains to depot.. small railroad track.. for transfer station for monorail...
09:29<Borg>and... it said it was unable to find route to depot!
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09:29-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd #tycoon
09:29<Borg>with is nonsense.. at least 2 path were available to 2 different depots..
09:29<Borg>anyone else noticed such weird situation?
09:29<andythenorth>any signals on the route?
09:30<Borg>one to one depot, none.. to other.. few signals, one-way
09:30<Borg>I boight another train there.. on depot
09:30<Borg>put in on track.. in same place.. asked to find depot..
09:30<Borg>and it went to it just fine
09:31<Borg>BUT!! we cannot reproduce it now.. because nother weird thing happened
09:31<Borg>one train was stopped.. second was waiting for free path on PBS signal
09:31<Borg>I have 255 time so it should wait forever
09:31<Borg>but sudently.. that bitch.. bypassed signal and crashed to waiting train..
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09:31<Borg>WTF?
09:34<Borg>okey
09:34<Borg>I made it happen again.
09:35<Borg>or im doing something completly wrong :( or dunno
09:35<Borg>its on my server, so if someone wanna take a look... would be nice
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09:35<Borg>hmmm
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09:36<Borg>okey..
09:36<Borg>train is like 6 tiles from the depot
09:36<Borg>and he said he cannot find route to local depot..
09:36<Borg>total bullshit in my opinion..
09:38<nielsm>do you have path reservations visible? because if the train has a path reserved that goes past the depot it won't be able to find it
09:38<Borg>okey, lets turn it on
09:38<LordAro>Borg: without seeing anything resembling a save game or even a screenshot it's impossible to say anything one way or the other
09:38<nielsm>(it doesn't try de-allocating the path and searching for a depot instead)
09:38<LordAro>it's usually a missi g section of electrified rail
09:38<nielsm>(there is an open bug report about that behavior)
09:39<Borg>LordAro: its server, you can join anytime..
09:39<Borg>anyway, I enabled path reservation
09:39<Borg>train is stopped.. path is still reserved.. skipping depot to next PBS
09:39<LordAro>Borg: i could, but i won't
09:40<LordAro>not least because i'm at work
09:40<Borg>when I hit depot button, it says no route to it..
09:40<Borg>LordAro: okey, I will give you screenshot..
09:40<peter1138>cue LordAro trying to scroll the screenshot :D
09:41<LordAro>peter1138: :p
09:42<Borg>http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/~borg/tmp/no_route_to_depot.png
09:42<peter1138>As nielsm said
09:43<Borg>ah, bug? ok...
09:43<peter1138>Ish.
09:44<LordAro>it's searching as if it's at the signal already
09:44<Borg>okey.. so lets wait for 1.8.1 ;)
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09:50<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say not unreserving the path is a feature ;)
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>put a signal right before the depot
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>or reverse the train
09:51<Borg>Eddi|zuHause: pfft ;)
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12:47<Wolf01>o/
12:48<peter1138>Sir Wolf01
12:48<Wolf01>"sir"
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12:53<peter1138>Oh... Lady Wolf01?
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12:54<Wolf01>Nah, just "Wolf01"
12:56<Wolf01>This evening, in the last hour of work, in my usual hallucinatory state, I was trying to figure out a way to integrate custom functions on a data extraction for a chart... tomorrow I'll read the notes and I'll say "wtf I wrote yesterday?"
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>typical.
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13:44<andythenorth>o/
13:44<andythenorth>so when NRT is merged, is that OpenTTD 2.0? o_O
13:48<peter1138>2.0 is fully 3D
13:51<Wolf01>But I would lock the camera to keep the current visual
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, all the hassle of porting to a 3d engine, but none of the benefits :p
13:52<Wolf01>Not even the map rotation
13:53<andythenorth>no pm or alberth? o_O
13:54<andythenorth>frosch123 can I commit this in nml trunk? https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/commit/6103847357bd77d4c8699fd5276557f67befbfee
14:00<frosch123>why not?
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14:02<andythenorth>needs review eh
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14:02<andythenorth>that was the review
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14:09<andythenorth>done
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14:10<Wolf01>Ginger ale time
14:10<andythenorth>nml could use a release maybe
14:10<andythenorth>and I could maybe clean some issues up https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/issues?per_page=100
14:11<frosch123>devzone could use a reboot :)
14:11<andythenorth>what I want to do is draw sprites, play tanks, and wreck FIRS for 64 cargos
14:11<andythenorth>frosch123: a literal reboot?
14:11<frosch123>nah, just some container
14:11<andythenorth>or a metaphorical, "why is it not all on github" reboot?
14:11<Wolf01>Go 64k or go home
14:11<andythenorth>"why does frosch123 have to restart rhodecode so often" reboot
14:11<frosch123>andythenorth: nml compile failed
14:12<andythenorth>tests?
14:12*andythenorth will look
14:12<frosch123>nah, just devzone issues
14:12<andythenorth>oh that
14:12<andythenorth>devzone aside, nml is a candidate for github imho
14:14<andythenorth>wonder if I can persuade pm to help tidy nml issues
14:14<frosch123>i doubt that would attract contributors in this case
14:14<andythenorth>dunno
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>what's wrong with the current repo?
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like it's svn
14:14<andythenorth>it's hg, it can't take PRs, the infra crashes a lot
14:15<frosch123>there is only one commit a year either way
14:15<andythenorth>the problem with nml isn't contributors, it's lack of BDFL :)
14:15<andythenorth>the maintenance commits against openttd are rarely hard
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, what needs doing anyway? every time openttd adds something to grf specs, nml needs an update. and missing parts like stations, bridges, ...
14:17<andythenorth>yes
14:17<andythenorth>it's usually trivial, but I dislike making those commits without review
14:18<andythenorth>also dunno what the release process is, if any
14:18<andythenorth>we seem to have pushed to pypi historically, but lapsed
14:18<andythenorth>and there's some magic to generate the windows .exe
14:18<frosch123>ammler pushed to pypi
14:19<andythenorth>embed nml into some C wrapper, and ship binaries with OpenTTD? o_O
14:19<frosch123>some years ago pm recovered the login for pypi, but we never pushed
14:19<andythenorth>https://docs.python.org/2/extending/embedding.html
14:20<frosch123>i have no idea what you want to achieve with that
14:20<frosch123>nml is already a debian package
14:20<andythenorth>avoiding python package install hell? o_O
14:20<frosch123>you are the only one with that problem
14:20<andythenorth>I don't have that problem
14:20<frosch123>literally
14:20<frosch123>then there is no problem
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14:22<andythenorth>I'm going to close some issues
14:23<frosch123>better fix them :)
14:23<andythenorth>I'll see
14:24<andythenorth>this I can fix https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5423
14:24<andythenorth>I ran into that recently
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 27 14:49:12 2018
---Logopened Wed Jun 27 14:49:18 2018
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15:02<frosch123>is it ok to compile squirrel into python just to run info.nut?
15:03<andythenorth>o_O
15:03<andythenorth>'probably'
15:05<Wolf01>You can put a squirrel in a python, but not the inverse :P
15:06<andythenorth>what's the objective? o_O
15:07<frosch123>earlier i wrote bananas2 modules to parse newgrf and savegames to extract dependencies and some meta data
15:07<frosch123>next i need that for ai and gs
15:07<Wolf01>:o
15:07<frosch123>the existing stuff like musa tries to parse the file directly by grepping for stuff like "return"
15:07<frosch123>but that does not work with all scripts
15:09<+michi_cc>glx: Would you be able to review this extremely complicated Windows PR? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6840
15:09<frosch123>in retrospect it was probably bad design to make ai and gs specify their meta data as a script
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>most designs are bad in retrospect :p
15:13<andythenorth>json manifest? o_O
15:14<andythenorth>some kind of yaml nonsense?
15:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause is quite right, although I find it hard to reconcile with his 'but you must have a good spec' advice :P
15:16<Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> is it ok to compile squirrel into python just to run info.nut? <-- i can't see any situation where your automatted script running arbitrary user code would cause a problem...
15:17<frosch123>it does that just before shipping it to your computer to run it there
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>there's probably someone out there who wrote a squirrel parser for python, so you can do a static analysis
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: uhm, yeah, but the squirrel "vm" in openttd is probably a bit more limited than your python interpreter
15:20<andythenorth>run it all in docker
15:20<andythenorth>docker is secure!
15:21<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i just want to put the ottd squirrel into a shared libary and bind that to python
15:21<frosch123>so, ottd code in native python wrapper
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>is that easier than running openttd directly and poking it with the admin port?
15:22<frosch123>i think so :)
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, there are automatted wrapper generators for C(++) modules
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15:29<frosch123>not in the info.nut
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16:03<+glx>michi_cc: done
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16:16<+michi_cc>glx: Thanks.
16:18<LordAro>frosch123: so how about my PRs? :p
16:22<frosch123>no idea, i think i did not check ottd for a month?
16:23<LordAro>pfft.
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16:26<frosch123>to get anything going with bananas, i have to essentially retire ottd
16:27<LordAro>:o
16:27<andythenorth>one thing at a time
16:27<frosch123>one can spent all evening reviewing stuff or checking issues, and then never anything happens
16:28<andythenorth>to get anything going with 64-cargo FIRS, I need to stop playing tanks :P
16:28<andythenorth>ottd is in quite good shape anyway
16:28<andythenorth>maybe TB will go on a review spree
16:29<andythenorth>one reason I quit forums was to avoid spending time talking **** about stuff that will never actually happen :)
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17:10<planetmaker_>hehe, I just stumbled over this somewhat unorthodox guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huwt9MKqdaQ
17:11<andythenorth>hello planetmaker_ :)
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17:12<planetmaker_>o/
17:15<andythenorth>it's pretty good guide
17:15<planetmaker_>it is. And it's kinda funny. Not a boring tutorial
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17:21<frosch123>boats!
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17:27<andythenorth>did the video end there because his CPU was pegged? o_O
17:28<Wolf01>'night
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17:46<peter1138>evening
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17:47<andythenorth>lo peter1138
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18:02<andythenorth>peter1138: is it biking?
18:02<peter1138>it was
18:02<andythenorth>far?
18:04<peter1138>nah only 24 miles
18:04<LordAro>even i did better than that today
18:07<peter1138>nice
18:08<peter1138>these mtb rides are pretty easy going now, as there's a wide range of fitness levels coming along
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19:26-!-orudge is "Owen Rudge" on #openttd.dev @#thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.dev @#bukkit @#jontylog @#tycoonexiles @#z.aud @#z.radio @#locomotion @#transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
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22:06-!-Soni is "Now with 9001% more CTCP https://git.io/viMN6" on #qemu #awesome #bitlbee #openttd
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22:21-!-Flygon is "Flygon" on #openttd
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22:21-!-quiznilo is "CC" on #openttd
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22:29-!-KouDy is "KouDy" on #openttd
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22:35-!-muffindrake is "muffindrake" on #openttd
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22:41-!-Corns is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
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22:51<Corns>anybody got dibs on the farmland near grindtown?
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23:39-!-muffindrake is "muffindrake" on #openttd
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23:45-!-Yexo is "Yexo" on #openttdcoop.nightly #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd.notice #openttd.noai #openttd.dev #openttd #opendune #coopetition
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23:46-!-fonsinchen is "Ulf Hermann" on #openttdcoop.dev #openttdcoop #openttd.dev #openttd #/r/openttd
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 28 00:00:12 2018