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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-07-07

---Logopened Sat Jul 07 00:00:24 2018
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02:52<@Alberth>o/
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03:01<andythenorth>eh when did master stop compiling :|
03:01*andythenorth bisecting
03:16<@Alberth>:o it did?
03:17<@Alberth>we had some warnings introduced recently, that kills the compilation?
03:17<@Alberth>also, you may want use 'blame' on the offending line :p
03:21<@Alberth>works for me
03:32<andythenorth>L702 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/5f86e1a390b4aa9510d43f97251484ca67934f1c#diff-ebbc445f07842947d83d0f98b7fa5140
03:32<andythenorth>src/economy.cpp:702:20: error: expected expression
03:32<andythenorth> c->cur_economy = {};
03:34<@Alberth>:O c++11 magic, probably
03:36<peter1138>CI needs to enforce not-c++11?
03:39<nielsm>what kind of ancient compiler are you using?
03:39<nielsm>:(
03:40<nielsm>but yeah it's probably because the {} invokes the "universal initialialization" rules
03:40<nielsm>so the {} should really be replaced with Economy() or whatever the name is default constructor
03:41<@Alberth>Likely one of the fields in CompanyEconomyEntry is not a POD, so you shouldn't 0 the memory?
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03:42<@Alberth>CompanyEconomyEntry has no constructor, so just CompanyEconomyEntry(); should work
03:46<@Alberth>or doesn;t a struct have constructors by default?
03:46<@Alberth>ok, it does compile with that change
03:46<nielsm>yeah Money is not a POD type
03:47<nielsm>because OverflowSafeInt<> has custom constructors
03:47<andythenorth>FWIW Apple LLVM version 9.0.0 (clang-900.0.39.2)
03:47<@Alberth>other projects cast the pointer to a void* :p
03:47<nielsm>that's called putting on a blindfold
03:48<@Alberth>c->cur_economy = CompanyEconomyEntry(); <-- andythenorth, does this work?
03:48<nielsm>doesn't make the chasm disappear from around you :)
03:48<@Alberth>you got to introduce more sublte bugs with improved compiler bug detection, eh? :)
03:49<nielsm>a little while ago I looked into trying to turn Money into a POD type but it's surprisingly hard, everywhere depends on having easy ways to put regular values into them
03:50<@Alberth>why did you try that? is a class wrong?
03:50<nielsm>lots of things seem to assume OverflowSafeInt<> are actually POD, even though they technically aren't
03:51<@Alberth>ah, fair enough, and yes that sounds likely to happen
03:51<nielsm>it's only by technicality since none of the constructors actually do anything interesting
03:51<nielsm>so it's unlikely to cause real problems
03:51<@Alberth>must keep our lord busy :)
03:52<nielsm>unless compilers end up making incorrect optimizations because of aliasing assumptions
03:52<@Alberth>they might at some point, the c++ language is moving as we speak
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03:57<andythenorth>Alberth: new error
03:57<andythenorth>src/landscape.cpp:1083:9: error: non-aggregate type 'AyStar' cannot be initialized with an
03:57<andythenorth> initializer list
03:57<andythenorth>;)
03:57<andythenorth>so eh
03:57<andythenorth>le joy
03:59<@Alberth>oh, different place at least :)
03:59<nielsm>let's try adding a bunch of static_assert(std::is_pod<T>()); into the various custom container templates here
03:59<nielsm>andythenorth for that one just remove the ={}
04:00<@Alberth>andy, revert to master, and run "make -k" that will try to compile all files even if there are errors. Then make an issue
04:00<nielsm>since "AyStay finder;" also does default initialization
04:01<@Alberth>solving them one by one works too, of course :)
04:02<andythenorth>ok
04:06<andythenorth>hmm
04:06<andythenorth>maybe there's a flag to print only errors
04:06<andythenorth>not warnings
04:08<@Alberth>openttd does aim for a warning-less compile
04:08<andythenorth>we're failing then :)
04:09<@Alberth>clearly :)
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04:15<andythenorth>I need to pick out just the errors
04:15<andythenorth>I'll do it manually
04:19<@planetmaker>o/
04:19<nielsm>welllll https://0x0.st/sfKS.txt
04:19<andythenorth>hi planetmaker
04:20<andythenorth>seems to be the errors https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppjajx8dt
04:20<andythenorth>warnings are many more
04:40<nielsm>https://gist.github.com/nielsmh/af22db0fc00f37afc857343f333e7c2b
04:40<nielsm>making ottd compile with that patch is a good summer project!!
04:46<LordAro>haha
04:46<@planetmaker>honest question: what would be the advantage of enforcing that, nielsm?
04:47<LordAro>removing autofreeptr wouldn't go amiss either
04:49<nielsm>autofreeptr should probably be replaced with std::unique_ptr
04:53<nielsm>moving the codebase to modern more type-safe C++ or not I'd say is a question of whether you want OTTD to be a reotro-ish game for old systems or one for new systems
04:53<@planetmaker>aye. thx
04:53<LordAro>removing the need for pretty much all of src/core has been something i've been keen on for a while
04:54<@planetmaker>:) you're Mr C++11 anyway :)
04:54<LordAro>lol
04:54<LordAro>Mr C++14, please
04:56<@Alberth>you're getting younger as time progresses :p
04:57<@planetmaker>hehe
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04:59<@Alberth>hmm, grfcodec compile fails
05:12<andythenorth>:{
05:13<LordAro>nielsm: the first error i get appears to be related to SmallMap<int, QueryString*> - are pointers not acceptable to is_pod?
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05:17<@Alberth>o/
05:20<frosch123>moo
05:20<LordAro>o/
05:22<nielsm>LordAro, pointers are supposed to be fine
05:23<@planetmaker>\o
05:23<LordAro>nielsm: well they seem not to be, unless i'm misreading the error message
05:23<LordAro>i just replaced it with a std::map anyway :)
05:23<nielsm>unless SmallMap assumes the second type is a pointer that can be deref'd and free'd
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05:27<nielsm>ah
05:27<nielsm>SmallMap<T,U> compiles to a SmallVector<SmallPair<T,U>> and SmallPair<> is not POD
05:27<LordAro>ah right
05:28<nielsm>but I somewhat want a "map" type that doesn't try to do anything fancy, litreally just inserts items in order, moves item from back into empty position when you remove one in the middle, and does linear search for lookups
05:29<nielsm>since that really can be faster than doing hash tables or balanced trees
05:41<+michi_cc>andythenorth: That clang version should support c++11 AFAIK, but you might be a victim of #6773 and not getting the proper compile flags.
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05:44<andythenorth>maybe I can apply JGR's patch
05:49<@Alberth>https://github.com/Alberth289346/OpenTTD/commit/c8d71848d32212a020e8dfb8b51cd90b5c1e9b64 might do the trick
05:49<@Alberth>AyStar is tricky, not sure if that should be allowed
05:49<LordAro>shouldn't be a lot of other warnings anyway..
05:50<LordAro>my bet is on the #6773 issue
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05:50*andythenorth compiling
05:51<andythenorth>yeah compiles with JGR's patch
05:51<andythenorth>fewer warnings also
05:51<andythenorth>I haven't tried yours yet Alberth
05:51<LordAro>what warnings are there?
05:52<@Alberth>(10:20:55) andythenorth: seems to be the errors https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppjajx8dt
05:52<nielsm>Alberth I think it's fine with AyStay, the type is not a POD (because it has non-public members) so it should have a compiler-generated default constructor, which also default-constructs all members
05:52<@Alberth>there are a lot more warnings, apparently
05:52<andythenorth>LordAro: these all look macOS specific https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvb5lnrj7
05:52<nielsm>i.e. zero initializes them for the most part
05:53<@Alberth>nielsm: ok
05:53<LordAro>andythenorth: ah yeah, not a lot i can do about the deprecated stuff
05:53<andythenorth>and these are the others https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbrq6lrsm
05:53<LordAro>perhaps there are some ifdef stuff that could be amended
05:55<nielsm>hmm, maybe I'm wrong about that
05:59<nielsm>yeah it'd be better to give AyStar a user-defined constructor that initializes it properly
06:03<@Alberth>hmm, perhaps make a few derived classes to get rid of the C-style OO
06:04<@Alberth>for me, not today at least
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08:09<peter1138>burp
08:09<andythenorth>yo
08:10<peter1138>hot day
08:11<andythenorth>isn't it
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08:13<qwebirc52686>Hello! I can't change to currency 'Euro (EUR)' ingame.. Can anyone help?
08:18<qwebirc52686>I tried to change the currency at the main menu and that works, but when I get back into the saved game it gets back to USD
08:19<peter1138>Did you try changing it in game?
08:19<qwebirc52686>Yes, but I could not select it
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08:23<qwebirc52686>Here: https://prnt.sc/k3mwfq
08:24<+michi_cc>qwebirc52686: Wait for the year 2000.
08:25<qwebirc52686>I'll try
08:25<+michi_cc>OTTD models the Euro changeover for affected currencies.
08:31<peter1138>Of which, USD isn't one...
08:38<nielsm>yeah if you use D-Mark or Franc or some other pre-EUR currency it just gets converted to EUR on the date
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09:14<stefino>hello. Have bridges ground sprites like buildings and can I change them? I mean ends of the bridges.
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09:18<stefino>I need to change them to flat grass - not 3D https://s22.postimg.cc/z1w5j9sht/V_st_i_ek.jpg
09:19<nielsm>you mean the ground sprites below bridgeheads?
09:21<stefino>yes :)
09:22<stefino>if it has the same code logic like buildings where can I choose ground sprite what will be displayed under the building
09:23<stefino>the same mechanism is at industry tiles and stations - if I remember corectly
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11:12<Eddi|zuHause><michi_cc> qwebirc52686: Wait for the year 2000. <-- i don't think that was the answer he was looking for. but rather he was looking for the settings menu while in the game, instead of the main menu
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11:15<__ln__>i'm not aware of any countries introducing the euro already in 2000.
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11:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, there was this time period where the euro was already adopted by banks and bureaucracy, before the actual coins/bills were distributed
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>at that point, the exchange rates were frozen
11:38<__ln__>yes, that i remember
11:39<while>does that mean starting in the year 2000, speculative attacks in Europe were no longer feasible (such as Black Monday in the UK in I think 1993)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>it might have been 1999 or 1998
11:42<__ln__>i think 1999 is the earliest year stamped on euro coins
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12:28<__ln__>https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/2018-summertime-arrangements
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12:30<@planetmaker>is that server functional again?
12:33<__ln__>seems to be
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13:11<andythenorth> is 64 cargo FIRS yet? o_O
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13:53<peter1138>Is it?
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14:12<berndj>are 2x2 city blocks better than 2x3? (or even 2x4 or more) i kinda like "dense" cities and having 55% of the space taken up by roads rather than 50% seems sub-optimal
14:18<@planetmaker>it doesn't matter really @ berndj
14:18<@planetmaker>berndj, it's only important that the houses have road contact. That means that 3x3 grid might not work well. But anything 2xn works
14:19<berndj>i just wish cities didn't build their own roads so bizarrely lol
14:19<@planetmaker>as long as there's an occasional perpendicular road :)
14:19<@planetmaker>berndj, there's the config option to choose the city road build pattern. Regular ones are available
14:19<@planetmaker>like 2x2 iirc
14:19<berndj>does it have to be lateral contact? i.e. not corner contact?
14:19<@planetmaker>indeed. corner is no contact
14:20<berndj>is build pattern newish? i haven't seen such an option, but i'm on about 1.3 or 1.4
14:20<@planetmaker>new... no. But 1.3 is not new either. It's 5 years old
14:20<berndj>sometimes i have 3x3 blocks and just have a single-square road to get to the middle house
14:22<@planetmaker>(svn r12534) -Feature: Add a new type of town road layouts - random for each town
14:22<@planetmaker>That must be older than a decade ;)
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>pretty much
14:26<@planetmaker>2008
14:26<@planetmaker>Date: Tue Apr 1 16:27:01 2008 +0000
14:26<@planetmaker>skidd13... long time ago :)
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16:17<while>I turn off local road building, and layout the towns in a custom manor
16:17<while>also lower all towns to sea level, and build canals around them, if I want to build an airport, just let in some lake, build canals as it fills my desired selection
16:17<while>then bulldoze the water, and plob an airport
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16:55<Eddi|zuHause>now imagine some real world dictator would do that
16:57<nielsm>hmm, I know newgrfs can change the base costs of all kinds of things, can they also change it based on year?
16:57<nielsm>(or other parameters)
16:57<nielsm>(maybe even based on map coordinates of the action?)
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>i think it is only evaluated on game start/load
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>it wouldn't be much of a "base" cost if it were different depending on location
16:59<nielsm>well true
16:59<peter1138>Yeah, base cost is not variable.
17:00<nielsm>same for costs of bridge types
17:01<nielsm>was reading random things the other day, and it might make sense to model that certain types of construction have changed relative costs depending on technology and societal norms
17:02<frosch123>cost only matters in the first 10 game years though
17:02<nielsm>moving large amounts of dirt was infeasible until maybe after WW2? but making huge wooden constructions was easier to get done with large groups of workers
17:02<nielsm>yeah and it's sad that every builder game ends up as a sandbox after getting the base income :)
17:04<frosch123>i wouldn't consider that sad :p
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23:13<while>I like to think of openTTD as an empire
23:13<while>where you're the emperor, and you are a great leader, and the people are helped by you making money, as the government (you) makes more money, the better off the people are
---Logclosed Sun Jul 08 00:00:26 2018