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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-07-22

---Logopened Sun Jul 22 00:00:45 2018
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03:50<andythenorth>o/
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04:04<Wolf01>o/
04:05<Wolf01>Lets see if I get headache from boredom even today
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06:04<andythenorth_>hmm
06:08<@Alberth>o/_
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06:19<peter1138>Hmm, so when I build, the basesets change.
06:20<peter1138>Is there some step missing with the translator commits?
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06:24-!-liste is "tktech" on #openttd #ceph #biz #moocows #osm #privacytools.io #fsci #gentoo #linode #Qubes_OS #tor #debian #oftc
06:25<liste>LordAro CompuDesktop liste Maarten UncleCJ Sylf Osai V453000 TinoDidriksen APTX| argoneus Sacro gelignite Mek ccfreak2k LANJesus _dp_ Arveen Westie pixeldanger[m] WWacko1976-work Hirundo Antheus Lejving_ heffer Thedarkb SpComb HerzogDeXtEr https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
06:25<liste>blathijs tokai|noir johnwhitlow[m] TrueBrain juzza1 greeter Mazur Progman andythenorth_ angguss[m] HeyCitizen Webster sim-al2 Laedek Wacko1976 fonsinchen swedneck[m] Hazzard vlanik2[m] Smedles Eddi|zuHause quiznilo Wolf01 DorpsGek Exec rocky113844 https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
06:25<liste>Agiri[m] Yexo tyteen4a03 triolus[m] cute[m] orudge grossing synchris rocky1138 urdh Afdal Alkel_U3 ^Spike^ sla_ro|master Thedarkb-X40 Rubidium michi_cc hrmny reldred berndj avdg Flygon Alberth mindlesstux techmagus Taede Ammler debdog nauticalnexus https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
06:25<liste>OsteHovel nielsm KouDy Mahjong murr4y Extrems IgnoredAmbience Afshaal mikegrb keoz planetmaker Heiki tneo gas1[m] dihedral peter1138 masse Tharbakim XeryusTC gnu_jj FLHerne crem2 swimstar[m] SmatZ manila[m] Xaroth Markk Yotson https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
06:25<Thedarkb>Wow, it's spreading.
06:25<andythenorth_>lulz
06:25<Arveen>fantastic
06:25<Thedarkb>I thought it was just Freenode and EFNet that had mass spam bots.
06:25<andythenorth_>I love ED
06:26<Afshaal>y-you too
06:29<berndj>bulldoze that guy's buildings pls
06:30<Thedarkb>Most of the spam on Freenode is advertising for l0de's podcast which he blames on "the pedos"
06:30<Thedarkb>I think the whole freenodegate thing is just a "viral ad campaign" for his podcast.
06:30<berndj>Thedarkb, not necessarily "for l0de" - could just be a joe job
06:31<liste>the evidence is pretty damning
06:31<liste>https://bryanostergaard.com
06:32<Thedarkb>I just don't believe that that shit was going on in ##hamradio
06:32<Flygon>Why isn't there a bot that just autobans someone highlighting the entire userlist again?
06:33<Thedarkb>Okay, kloeri is definitely a nonce.
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06:43<Thedarkb>l0de's spam predates this though and he was blaming it on a different paedophile.
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06:44<peter1138>Ah, okay, video output graph is not changed by my patch.
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06:47<frosch123>@mode +R
06:47-!-mode/#openttd [+R] by DorpsGek
07:20<frosch123>someone wants to read 55GB of supybot logs?
07:22<frosch123>oops, gone
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07:35<TrueBrain>took them 14 minutes this time? Omg
07:36<TrueBrain>frosch123: why +R the channel? :)
07:36<frosch123>in the past years spammers were always here on sundays
07:37<frosch123>it's just easier to block everyone until kids are in bed
07:37<TrueBrain>meh; happened now .. twice in 5 months, that a spammers get through? Both times OFTC took actions in a short window of time :)
07:37<TrueBrain>just don't forget to remove +R when the sunday is over I guess :P
07:38<TrueBrain>michi_cc: your comit message is a lie, I now notice :D
07:38<TrueBrain>owh well :P
07:38<TrueBrain>happy the PR is in there :D
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07:58<@Alberth>o/
08:11<berndj>i really hate local authorities sometimes
08:12<berndj>if i don't do blitzkrieg station building then they never let me help them. then instead i grow the surrounding towns that aren't idiots until it suffocates them
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>i generally place a few bus stops first
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>then the station itself, and then the tracks
08:15<berndj>yeah, it seems you really have to get going really quickly without giving them time to dislike you
08:17<nielsm>build a serviced bus route first to give a steady source of positive thoughts
08:17<nielsm>then build railway station with minimum destruction
08:17<nielsm>then landscape and bulldoze the rails to it
08:17<berndj>what's the radius of dislike btw? i've noticed sometimes i just have a line passing through the general vicinity of a town, without any stations, and then that town hates me forever
08:18<berndj>is it the terrain modifications that matter? or just the building of tracks, or what is it that starts their hate clock ticking?
08:18<nielsm>I'm not sure what exactly defines it, but if you use the query tool it always lists "local authority" which can be "none"
08:18<nielsm>it's mainly destruction of trees, buildings and city-owned roads
08:19<frosch123>it depends on number of houses
08:19<frosch123>which is a stat that is not directly visible
08:19<berndj>damn bunnyhuggers
08:19<nielsm>afaik landscape itself does not cause negative reputation
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>you can also change the sensitivity of the authorities
08:26<peter1138>nielsm, did you consider measuring AI time?
08:28<nielsm>yeah did consider
08:28<nielsm>but ai and gs are both bounded on number of VM ticks each game tick, right?
08:30<TrueBrain>people that make a detailed bug report, and fix it themself .. what is becoming of this world!
08:30<TrueBrain>*denies PR purely for this* :P
08:30<TrueBrain>nielsm: yes; but 1 VM tick is not a preset amount of time :)
08:30<TrueBrain>(it is 1 instruction, which can vary)
08:31<TrueBrain>and the amount of ticks is pretty arbitrary :D
08:31<TrueBrain>I believe I just picked a number .. any that sounded reasonable :P
08:32<nielsm>:D
08:35<peter1138>Presumably AIs don't use ALL the ticks available every time?
08:35<peter1138>Or do they? I dunno.
08:35<frosch123>any command suspends them
08:36<peter1138>*nod*
08:36<frosch123>so, they only reach the max ops, if they never build anything
08:36<peter1138>And I assume 7 AIs will use more time than 1 AI.
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>knowing the AI time might help in picking a better VM tick limit
08:50<andythenorth>hi
08:51<andythenorth>anything I can do to help this?
08:51<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6773
08:51<andythenorth>currently I am using JGR's patch, applied locally
08:58<peter1138>cherry-pick + make PR ?
09:09<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6859
09:27<Flygon><Eddi|zuHause> i generally place a few bus stops first
09:28<Flygon>I always build a Tram network in a town but it's so time consuming. :D
09:28<Flygon>And even worse I like to name the Tram stations realistic names because I like to work on IRL scenarios. :D
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, whether i place bus or tram depends on the mood of the day, i guess
09:28<Flygon>But I always wind up with towns growing very fast because...uhm....
09:28<Flygon>They have a reason to grow fast.
09:29<Flygon>So by the time I actually finish the Trainline, they end up far bigger than the Trainline was built for.
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you should not place the stops and forget about putting the station :p
09:29<Flygon>...hopefully JGR allowing nerfing town growth makes this more manageable. I've only just started using the patchpack.
09:29<Flygon>Oh, no. I place the station.
09:30<Flygon>I'm just too lazy to make temporary terminuses. :P
09:30<andythenorth>is it nap time?
09:30<Flygon>It's almost Adult Swim time in Australia. :3
09:30<Flygon>whoo aqua team hunger force
09:31<Flygon>I'm seriously loving the timepatch though. It makes 4k*4k scenarios bearable.
09:31<Flygon>Rather than getting just 20% of the map done by the time it's 2050.
09:31<LordAro>andythenorth: no you need to fix the PR :p
09:32<andythenorth>so I need to rewrite the commit message?
09:32<LordAro>yeah
09:32<andythenorth>how do I keep JGR as author?
09:33<LordAro>i think author will stay...
09:33<LordAro>if not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:33<LordAro>it's a 2 line patch, i'm sure JGR won't mind
09:33<andythenorth>I try just --amend first
09:33<@Alberth>add (jgr) at the end of the commit
09:34<@Alberth>+message
09:35<andythenorth>nope
09:35<andythenorth>now I have 3 commits :(
09:35<andythenorth>this is not good
09:35<andythenorth>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6859/commits
09:35<andythenorth>--amend causes a merge
09:36<@Alberth>??
09:36<peter1138>How do you manage to break git every time?
09:36<andythenorth>practice
09:36<andythenorth>also someone might have configure my git in a non-standard way a long time ago
09:36<andythenorth>not sure
09:37<peter1138>Likely, --amend does not merge.
09:37<andythenorth>but when I push after the amend, there are upstream changes
09:37<peter1138>And cherry-pick keeps the author by default anyway.
09:37<andythenorth>"hint: 'git pull ...') before pushing again."
09:37<andythenorth>then I pull
09:37<andythenorth>then git auto-merges on pull
09:37<andythenorth>then there are 3 commits
09:38<peter1138>Don't pull.
09:38<andythenorth>eh?
09:38<andythenorth>but git says I have to :P
09:38<andythenorth>is this force push again?
09:38<peter1138>No, it suggests you might want to. But you don't.
09:39<peter1138>git reset HEAD~1
09:39<peter1138>git checkout .
09:39<peter1138>git push <your origin> 6773 -f
09:40<LordAro>when you rewrite history, you want to force push
09:40<andythenorth>ugh
09:40<andythenorth>I just can't get used to that
09:40<LordAro>(rewrite history == --amend or rebase)
09:40<andythenorth>ok I deleted the branch
09:40<LordAro>lol
09:44<peter1138>Argh, yet another dead PR :(
09:44<LordAro>bad andythenorth
09:44<andythenorth>I stick to pixels
09:45<LordAro>fwiw, you didn't delete the branch :p
09:45<LordAro>it's still on your remote
09:45<LordAro>peter1138's still got commit rights on your fork, right? :p
09:46<andythenorth>ok it's gone
09:46<LordAro>boooo
09:46<andythenorth>I'll do it again later
09:47<andythenorth>I'll go read the rebase -i docs again
09:47<andythenorth>I hate doing rebase
09:47<andythenorth>I don't understand it, and I have to use nano in shell for it
09:47<peter1138>You didn't need to rebase.
09:47<andythenorth>I hate shell editors
09:47<peter1138>Just a cherry-pick.
09:47<andythenorth>but I have to rewrite the commit
09:48<peter1138>Why?
09:48<LordAro>the message is "wrong"
09:48<andythenorth>it fails the checks
09:48<peter1138>git rebase -i master
09:48<peter1138>Easy.
09:48<andythenorth>this would be way easier if jgrpp was a fork of openttd
09:48<andythenorth>:|
09:48<andythenorth>probably way way too late for that
09:48<peter1138>That's irrelevant. cherry-pick just works.
09:51<andythenorth>so cp, amend, push -f
09:52<peter1138>just a push
09:52<andythenorth>that won't work
09:52<andythenorth>I tried that already, the PR is rejected
09:52<peter1138>you only need push -f because you'd already pushed earlier
09:52<peter1138>ah you didn't close the branch, just the PR?
09:52<peter1138>why close the PR? o_O
09:52<andythenorth>I deleted the branch
09:52<andythenorth>because it's fucked
09:52<peter1138>...
09:52<peter1138>so you don't need to push -f
09:53<andythenorth>but I can push if the commit is amended
09:53<andythenorth>can't
09:53<peter1138>you can
09:53*andythenorth doesn't understand tbh
09:53<andythenorth>but I'll try
09:53<peter1138>you can't push if you have ALREADY pushed
09:54<LordAro>regardless you should be able to recreate the branch and reuse the PR
09:54<andythenorth>hang on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6860
09:55<LordAro>hahaha
09:55<LordAro>or not
09:55<andythenorth>almost lulz
09:55<andythenorth>as long as it gets done.... :P
10:15<andythenorth>so now someone just needs to merge it? o_O
10:17<+michi_cc>peter1138: I would've reformulated that commit message to actually be a Fix #6773:
10:26<peter1138>"oh well"
10:27<peter1138>It's still a code change :p
10:27<peter1138>It still closes the issue.
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10:39<andythenorth>thx
10:53-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@78.96.209.89] has quit []
10:57-!-gelignite [~gelignite@55d485e5.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Quit: Match found!]
11:05<andythenorth>do we think 2 industry output cargos is design or accident? o_O
11:06-!-Thedarkb [~beno@51-171-48-3-dynamic.agg3.kny.prp-wtd.eircom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:10<andythenorth>and is 'glue and paint' a valid cargo? :P
11:12<nielsm>two output cargos is design
11:12<nielsm>the original game has two industries with two output cargos, farms and oil rigs
11:13<andythenorth>yes
11:14<@Alberth>name it "glued paint" :p
11:15<andythenorth>'paint and finishes'? o_O
11:15<andythenorth>I did have 'adhesives' which is quite neat
11:15<nielsm>pigmented glue
11:15<andythenorth>but I can only find one destination for 'adhesives'
11:15<@Alberth>not sure why you need glue for painting though
11:15<@Alberth>aka "sticky"
11:15<andythenorth>they use similar polymer inputs
11:15<andythenorth>in some cases
11:16<@Alberth>house decorating supplies
11:16<andythenorth>I was thinking more for tractors
11:16<@Alberth>especially needed for fast growing cities
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i tried to explain this earlier, but my understanding of paint is that you don't put the polymers in them, but the polymerisation happens upon drying the paint after applying it, and is what makes the paint stick. i'm assuming the same thing happens with glues
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so you put a "binding agent" in the paint, that is responsible for this polymerisation
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: often that is "casein" (the main component of cheese)
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>but there are also synthetic alternatives
11:30-!-juzza1 [~juzza1@0001bead.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:33<andythenorth>ok thx
11:34<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme
11:34<andythenorth>might be over-provided on food
11:34<andythenorth>dunno
11:34<andythenorth>plastic needs more destinations
11:34<andythenorth>paper does nothing :P
11:34<andythenorth>timber yard needs creosote or something
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>paper goes to printing works (town industry) or packaging facility?
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>packaging facility also accepts plastic
11:36<peter1138>Sugar and Sugar Beet... hmm.
11:36<peter1138>*potatoes
11:36<andythenorth>don't mention the war
11:36<andythenorth>printing works needs ink or dye?
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>ink
11:36<peter1138>Some of these cargo types are oddly specific
11:37<peter1138>And then you've got Goods :p
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>depending on what they print, they might use dye-based ink or pigment-based ink
11:37<peter1138>Beans? Hmm
11:37<andythenorth>Goods needs splitting
11:37<andythenorth>Beans I am maybe about to remove
11:37<andythenorth>I thought it was funny to have baked bean factory
11:37<andythenorth>not sure it is
11:37<peter1138>"traktor plant"?
11:38<peter1138>Traktor?
11:38<andythenorth>Russian Tractor
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>remove goods completely, and add some more specific new consumer goods?
11:38<andythenorth>yes
11:38<andythenorth>domestic appliances, household chemicals
11:38<andythenorth>already split furniture and textiles
11:38<andythenorth>toys?
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>electronics, textiles
11:38<peter1138>Like ammonia and lye
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>textile works also accepts paint
11:39<peter1138>Electronics, comes from an industry called "China"
11:39<andythenorth>that's a port then
11:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how to produce paint then? o_O
11:39<andythenorth>not sure about potatoes
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>after working at a paint factory for over a year, i still haven't the faintest idea :p
11:40<peter1138>Pigment, binder & solvent. I can google!
11:40<andythenorth>isn't it
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that's what i thought after the first 2 days. but then it got complicated... :p
11:40<peter1138>Add two binders cargo types
11:40<peter1138>One for paint
11:40<peter1138>And one of storing documents
11:41<andythenorth>Binder 1
11:41<andythenorth>Binder 2
11:41<andythenorth>do I have enough cargo slots? o_O
11:41<andythenorth>delete potatos I think
11:41<peter1138>Also add a Binders industry that takes paper and produces documents
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11:41<andythenorth>Dox
11:41<peter1138>I think you should not listen to me.
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>if you delete the potatos, are the potatoes still in?
11:42<andythenorth>not so much
11:42<andythenorth>I can never spell it, which is a bad smell
11:42<andythenorth>peter1138: I think your ideas are great
11:42<andythenorth>do you have a newsletter?
11:42<andythenorth>Spam Mail Plant
11:43<andythenorth>paper, stamps -> mail
11:43<@Alberth>printingworks -> letters
11:43<@Alberth>press-agency -> news
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>"mail" and "unsolicited mail"?
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>and some houses don't accept "unsolicited mail"?
11:44<andythenorth>'rumours'
11:44<@Alberth>there is non-unsolicited mail?
11:44<peter1138>'fake news'
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>"news", "fake news" and "counter fake news"?
11:45<andythenorth>potatoes / potatos
11:45<andythenorth>are gone
11:45<andythenorth>45 cargos
11:45<andythenorth>3 slots spare, and goods can also be swapped out
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so first time i clicked on the graph, i can't find ANYTHING that we're talking about
11:45<andythenorth>was it cached?
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>no, i mean it's too hard to read
11:46<andythenorth>oh that :)
11:46<andythenorth>suggestions welcome
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, bigger font?
11:48<andythenorth>seems graphviz has some options there
11:48<andythenorth>there was a zoom tool, but it's stopped working
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11:49<Eddi|zuHause>zoom tool seems to work here
11:49<andythenorth>really? o_O
11:49<andythenorth>which browser?
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>firefox
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>"60.1.0esr (64-Bit)"
11:50<andythenorth>only slightly older than mine
11:50<andythenorth>oh it's appeared for me in FF now
11:51<andythenorth>it's rather unreliable :)
11:51<andythenorth>so Detergent or Household Chemicals?
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>so, both the dairy and the polymer factory could produce "binding agent", which is input for paint factory
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>simulating natural and synthetic inputs
11:53<andythenorth>if it was straightforward PVA, it could also be glue for furniture factory :P
11:53<andythenorth>nope, different PVA
11:53<andythenorth>discount that
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11:54<Eddi|zuHause>leaves the dissolving agent and the pigments to simulate
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>pigment is very diverse field
11:54<andythenorth>pigments -> dyes?
11:54<andythenorth>already in ECS
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>depending on how fine you want to model is, those are different things
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>"dyes" is usually organic substances that are water-soluable, and "pigments" are inorganic substances that are non-water-soluable (hence the dissolving agent)
11:56<andythenorth>well the maximum detail resolution is '3' :P
11:56<andythenorth>due to input cargos
11:56<andythenorth>and 2 would be better
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11:56<Eddi|zuHause>usually dyes are prone to fading faster than pigments
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12:15<Wolf01>Mmmh, autorejoin failed
12:15<Wolf01>andythenorth: finished the prototype of my brick-wall :P
12:17<andythenorth>pictures
12:17<andythenorth>or didn't happen :)
12:17<Wolf01>https://www.flickr.com/photos/admiral_daala/39758677415/ this is a brick-wall, I made one like an advertising board
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12:21<Wolf01>https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgUFeOGLNNfVipsuBqauFKv8yaSg9A this is one of the WIP images
12:22<Wolf01>o/ Alberth
12:23<@Alberth>o/
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12:58<andythenorth>o/ snail_UES_
12:58<snail_UES_>hi andythenorth
13:01<andythenorth>anyone want to review this? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6805
13:24<andythenorth>hmm
13:24<LordAro>andythenorth: it's a peter1138 patch, i imagine it's fine :p
13:24<andythenorth>gr8 review
13:24<andythenorth>:P
13:24<LordAro>but map array is beyond my ability to review
13:24<andythenorth>put it on the PR :)
13:24<andythenorth>'probably fine'
13:25<LordAro>:D
13:25<andythenorth>maybe a sock puppet account, peter1139
13:25<andythenorth>so should I go full 64 cargos then? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme
13:25<andythenorth>my aim was 48
13:26<andythenorth>but eh
13:44<@Alberth>last time it was 45 iirc :p
13:45<@Alberth>but 64 sounds something you'd expect in extreme :p
13:45<snail_UES_>andythenorth: OMG
13:45<snail_UES_>what I’d love to get from you would be a “final” list of cargoes… no matter how many...
13:45<andythenorth>good luck
13:46<andythenorth>why?
13:46<snail_UES_>so that I can code them on my trainset and support your FIRS
13:46<snail_UES_>how can I do that if they keep changing...?
13:46<andythenorth>you probably can't :)
13:46<andythenorth>but stasis is boring
13:47<andythenorth>Alberth: I really think
13:47<andythenorth>that if I do 64, I'll end up micro-modelling the chemical chain :P
13:47<snail_UES_>I can’t see potatoes on your list there…
13:47<andythenorth>not sure if this is Food Town
13:47<andythenorth>Goods Town
13:48<andythenorth>or Chemical Town
13:48<snail_UES_>I thought we had discussed them a few days ago? did you drop the idea?
13:48<andythenorth>for now
13:48<andythenorth>an economy takes about 1 year to do
13:48<@Alberth>goods seems most diverse to me
13:49<andythenorth>if it's Goods Town
13:49<andythenorth>then the focus should be on many intermediate cargos
13:49<snail_UES_>yes I think with 64 cargo types, such a generic cargo as “goods” would make little sense...
13:49<andythenorth>and I don't need to add even more chemical feedstocks :P
13:49<snail_UES_>IMO either we have all “generic” cargoes with subtypes,
13:49<andythenorth>I am kind of stuck in chemical chains right now
13:49<snail_UES_>or we have a long, detailed list of specific cargoes
13:49<andythenorth>snail_UES_: I agree
13:49<snail_UES_>having both in the same schema looks confusing
13:49<andythenorth>except for Supplies
13:49<andythenorth>and Food
13:50<snail_UES_>but even Food… why having “Food” separate from, say, “Beans” or “Potatoes"?
13:50<@Alberth>probably everything "at the edge" of the economy
13:50<andythenorth>the problem with splitting food
13:50<snail_UES_>they’re both kinds of food…
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13:50<andythenorth>is that it demands a lot of black hole destination industries
13:50<andythenorth>and there's no reliable way to provide them
13:50<snail_UES_>supermarket, retail market, farmers’ market...
13:51<andythenorth>so actually, most towns *wouldn't* accept, e.g. meat, fish, diairy, meat, bread
13:51<snail_UES_>unless we add specific industries
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13:51<andythenorth>each industry can only accept 3
13:51<andythenorth>and splitting food only makes sense if it's split to at least 6 or 7 cargos
13:52<andythenorth>when I tested it, the chances of getting a destination industry for, e.g. meat, were very low
13:52<snail_UES_>so we could have “bakery store” accepting bread and similar, “farmers’ market” accepting fruit and vegetables, “supermarket” accepting meat, diary, alcohol..
13:52<andythenorth>yes, I did that
13:52<andythenorth>but they don't get built
13:52<andythenorth>it's just how ottd works
13:52<snail_UES_>the issue is that, if they’re houses, they can get built and demolished
13:53<snail_UES_>if they’re industries, we should make sure they’re built in high numbers across the map
13:53<andythenorth>but we can't
13:53<andythenorth>that's not possible
13:53<snail_UES_>then the alternative is to raise the number of accepted cargoes per industry :p
13:54<snail_UES_>“big picture”, I think 64 cargo types can be exciting, but not really implementable if we also have the limit of 3 cargo types per industry
13:54<snail_UES_>both limits should be raised together
13:54<andythenorth>I think it's worth considering
13:55<andythenorth>but it makes economy design rather easy
13:55<andythenorth>not sure it's very interesting then :)
13:56<Wolf01><snail_UES_> the issue is that, if they’re houses, they can get built and demolished <- that's how GOODs work, just make sure multiple stores will be built
13:56<andythenorth>FIRS could enforce houses
13:56<andythenorth>I wondered about doing that
13:57<andythenorth>so it's Industry & House Set
13:57<andythenorth>needs a new name then
13:57<andythenorth>FISH?
13:57<andythenorth>Full Industry Set Houses
13:57<snail_UES_>I thought Squid had already eaten FISH?
13:58<Wolf01>Nah, you only provide houses useful to the industry chain, not a full set of houses
13:58<Wolf01>Just FIRS is enough
13:58<andythenorth>I think I'd need to control all houses
13:58<andythenorth>otherwise weird side effects
13:58<andythenorth>so I'd disable FIRS against other house sets
13:59<andythenorth>also, so I shouldn't add the following cargos? Benzene, Propene, Naptha, Ethanol, Bitumen, Acetylene?
13:59<andythenorth>:P
13:59<snail_UES_>:O
13:59<snail_UES_>all of those carried in tank wagons I guess?
13:59<snail_UES_>split from “Chemical Products"?
14:00<andythenorth>I think they aren't valid
14:03<andythenorth>the puzzle is
14:04<andythenorth>the chlor alkali industry is actually really easy, just split salt
14:04<andythenorth>and then chlorine goes to plastic, and lye goes to paper + detergents
14:04<andythenorth>but the petrochemicals industry is very complex and hard to understand
14:05<andythenorth>and has multiple feedstocks: crude oil, natural gas, syngas from coal, and biomass distilling
14:07<andythenorth>meanwhile, sulphur is the world's most produced industrial chemical
14:07<andythenorth>but is hard to find destinations for, without other petrochemicals to combine it with
14:12<andythenorth>meanwhile the only metal in this economy is steel :P
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15:30<TrueBrain>wow, that patch from peter1138 about increasing railtypes is really hard to review
15:30<TrueBrain>mostly as it is 1 commit with EVERYTHING done :)
15:31<LordAro>not sure you can split it up any further
15:31<TrueBrain>at least the m3 -> m8 in 1 commit would have helped :D
15:32<LordAro>i guess :p
15:33<TrueBrain>do you know why he changed 1 into 1LL?
15:33<TrueBrain>hard time figuring thatone out
15:35<snail_UES_>TrueBrain: thanks for having a look into this… it’d be great if that made it into trunk :)
15:35<TrueBrain>I doubt I can give a sane review atm ... so many changes that I cannot pinpoint ..
15:36<TrueBrain>it really feels it does more than it claims
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15:46<TrueBrain>LordAro: "properly fine" makes me very nervous btw ;)
15:46<TrueBrain>fine if that is by consensus, but to approve a PR for that :D
15:47<TrueBrain>but I cannot believe you had nothing to complain :D Best one for me was: "Invalid railtypes?" (he added the ?)
15:56<TrueBrain>frosch123: I am currently using the labels for PRs .. I hope I can automate DorpsGek to do that soon-ish for us .. but at least I find it more understandable with labels what needs attention and what not
15:56<TrueBrain>don't know about you :)
15:58<TrueBrain>tempted to accept the forest patch ..
15:58<TrueBrain>bit shitty I currently cannot compile OpenTTD
15:59<TrueBrain>where is andy when you need him :D
16:02<TrueBrain>owh well, time to watch some telly :) nn!
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17:35<peter1138>1LL because 1 << x is 32 bit.
17:40<peter1138>I suppose move then extend can be split up.
17:44<peter1138>thanks for looking at it
17:54<Wolf01>'night
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18:54<TrueBrain>peter1338: exactly, so why the LL? INVALID is UINT32_MAX .. p1/p2 too .. 6 bits fits too .. bitshift 25 is fine .. I didnt see why it needs LL? (I am most likely missing something here :D)
18:54<TrueBrain>typing your name right is hard too ... peter1138 .. lol
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>who types names?
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>p[tab]?
19:00<TrueBrain>ah, RailTypes is a bitmask ... got it .. not your patch, but that name is fucked up .. RailType is a value, RailTypes a bit mask .. just to screw with you! Got it now :)
19:00<TrueBrain>nn
19:09<peter1138>I've split it up.
19:10<peter1138>I'm trying to solve the rt << 4 | 7 issue.
19:11<peter1138>It's to spread railtypes out, but the storage is a byte, so << 4 chops the 2 MSB of with 64 types.
19:11<peter1138>rt << 2 | 7 is clearly wrong. rt << 2 | 3 is more reasonable, but messes up any existing newgrf ordering.
19:13<peter1138>Also, the merge detection fails to understand savegame bumps :D
19:14<peter1138>Not sure that's solvable.
19:15<peter1138>Hmm, it is, but where we've put "198" and "199" in saveload.cpp by themselves it should have a description. That'll conflict.
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 23 00:00:46 2018