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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-08-04

---Logopened Sat Aug 04 00:00:51 2018
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00:47-!-Extrems is "" on #openttd
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00:59-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
00:59-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
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01:46-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd #tycoon
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02:13-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
02:27<andythenorth>65% complete
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02:56<TrueBrain>tempted to just merge #6868 .. over a week, and seems nobody cares about bugs in OpenTTD :P
03:01<TrueBrain>no longer sure what to think of the "forest" patch
03:01<TrueBrain>hard to see if things get better or worse :D
03:07<TrueBrain>wow .. github scans requirements.txt too, and warn about issues
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03:08-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
03:09<TrueBrain>hello andythenorth :)
03:09<andythenorth>yo TrueBrain
03:09<TrueBrain>how are you doing? :D
03:09<TrueBrain>bonsaitree! :D
03:09<TrueBrain>finally getting a bit used to the heat ..
03:10<TrueBrain>hopefully I can be productive today :P
03:10<andythenorth>so many great commits to trunk
03:10<andythenorth>already done
03:11<andythenorth>I'll make us baseball caps
03:11<andythenorth>Make OpenTTD Great Again
03:11<TrueBrain>hahahahaha :D
03:11<andythenorth>"it's tremendous, I think you're really going to love it"
03:12<TrueBrain>"It is THE BESTEST Open Source Project"
03:12<TrueBrain>wait, Open Source Project is too long to remember
03:12<andythenorth>fake news
03:14<andythenorth>134 closed PRs now
03:16<@Alberth>but people continue making new ones :p
03:18<TrueBrain>massive amounts of emails in my mailbox because I authorized pyup into OpenTTD :P
03:19<TrueBrain>damn, they did that awesome
03:20<TrueBrain>they create PRs with everything needed to get them working
03:20<TrueBrain>that is why I love automation
03:21<Markk>Hello everyone, a quick question. When creating orders for trains, is it possible to change the "Unload all" button that as default creates the "Unload and take cargo" order. I would like it to be "Unload and leave empty" as default, is that possible?
03:24<@Alberth>you cannot change the default order easily, unless "easy" includes changing source and recompiling
03:24<Markk>Ah, I was afraid it was something like that.
03:24<@Alberth>not sure why this is a big problem, you know about cloning orders?
03:24<@Alberth>or for that matter, cargodist?
03:25<Markk>No, it's not really, just wanted to check.
03:25<Markk>Yep, I'm cloning all of them, but it would save some time to just have to press one button instead of three :)
03:26<@Alberth>for trains going to the same destination, I often clone even when the source station is different
03:27<Markk>Same here
03:27<andythenorth>curious, why does it need to unload?
03:27<andythenorth>I never have any use for unload, except testing newgrf cargo sprites
03:27<Markk>I leave a sticky window open with the same type of train, when building feeder systems
03:27<andythenorth>if it's feeder, just use 'transfer' which defaults to 'leave empty'
03:28<Markk>andythenorth: It's mostly an OCD, which comes from sometime using the same station for unloading and loading.
03:28<@Alberth>without cargod-dist I assume?
03:28<andythenorth>if you're using cdist, just use 'no loading'
03:28<Markk>Yes, when using transfer it's leaving empty as standard.
03:29<Markk>I'm not using anything else than the standard OpenTTD, but with my own settings
03:29<Markk>I'm just a casual player and has played OpenTTD since 2005, so not really advanced, I just find this game really relaxing
03:30<Markk>My OCD can get really calm from building an efficient and beautiful system :)
03:32<@Alberth>yep, you can watch for hours how trains move :)
03:33<andythenorth>supply wagons
03:33<andythenorth>probably need tractors and stuff as loads
03:33<Markk>Yeah, really nice when you have built a nice system, that can run by itself without much micro-managing and just follow them around :)
03:33<@Alberth>big supply?
03:34<andythenorth>tractors tend not to be symmetrical, and my cargo processors demands symmetry
03:36<@Alberth>transformer is symmetrical
03:37<andythenorth>this is true
03:37<andythenorth>also tarpaulins and crates make nice loads :P
03:37<andythenorth>I can teach the cargo processor asymmetry, I'd just rather avoid it right now
03:37<@Alberth>ah, that would be the proper solution :p
03:38<TrueBrain>wait ... who here is making proper solutions?!
03:38<TrueBrain>what can I do to avoid that?
03:38<@Alberth>stay busy! :)
03:39<@Alberth>pyup isn't helping there, I think :p
03:39<andythenorth>that's just the piece cargos part of the processor ^ :P
03:40<andythenorth>110 lines to save drawing stuff on flat wagons
03:40<andythenorth>a lot of it is just declarative crap for bounding boxes :D
03:40<@Alberth>hmm, it could use some 'empty line' instances here and there
03:41<andythenorth>it could also be split into multiple functions
03:42<andythenorth>but eh, abstraction is not always more readable
03:43<@Alberth>but basically, you're using the same cargo sprite for -> and <- views ?
03:44<@Alberth>(just random guessing, code is too complicated to understand that fast)
03:44<andythenorth>I can extend it in future, it's trivial-ish
03:44<andythenorth>I can set an asymmetry boolean
03:45<andythenorth>and then conditionally slice out 4 or 8 sprites as needed
03:45<andythenorth>just faff
03:45<@Alberth>I would probably have implemented asymmetry at first, and detect lack of sprites or such, and fallback
03:46<andythenorth>that might work too
03:46<TrueBrain>I am looking for a name to describe a service .. it gets events from what is happening, and it can poll a system to check what is configured ..
03:46<TrueBrain>'status' feels weird ..
03:46<TrueBrain>'events' is too generic
03:46<@Alberth>what does it do?
03:46<andythenorth>is it a monitor daemon?
03:46<TrueBrain>it digests the information, in the most generic sense
03:47<TrueBrain>monitor, hmm, that works
03:47<@Alberth>right now, it sounds like a data collector
03:47<andythenorth>it's a subscribed monitor?
03:47<andythenorth>or a scheduled monitor?
03:47<TrueBrain>its not only a data collector, as it can also poll the system
03:47<TrueBrain>tracker is also nice
03:48<TrueBrain>hmm .. even beter ..
03:48<TrueBrain>at least, so much better than my 'status' :D
03:49<andythenorth>hmm, when I look in the graphics processor....I find I shouldn't
03:50<@Alberth>add pixels instead
03:50<andythenorth>it's basically automating what I would manually do in photoshop
03:51<andythenorth>so it's long, and not actually very complex
03:51<andythenorth>just very verbose
03:51<@Alberth>doing it manually is too much work by definition
03:51<andythenorth>it has that air of "surely this should all just be a few functions with parameters"
03:51<andythenorth>but I don't think that would work
03:55<andythenorth>supply car loads are also date-dependent :P
03:55<andythenorth>tractors in 1900 are not like tractors in 1990
03:55<andythenorth>something to consider eh
03:59<@Alberth>you don't make several wagon generations?
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04:02<andythenorth>6 wagon generations
04:03<andythenorth>they'd need different input cargo sprites
04:03<andythenorth>suggests a dedicated processor for these wagons
04:03<Wolf01>Opened the Bugatti box, my friend was giggling like a girl
04:05<@Alberth>having lots of fun thus :)
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04:07<@Alberth>refactor the "position sprite and copy it into place" out the existing one?
04:07<andythenorth>maybe yes
04:07<andythenorth>seems like a generic method
04:10<Wolf01> <- python
04:12<@Alberth>I could probably write that book :)
04:14<andythenorth>there are a lot lines in this file
04:14<@Alberth>there isn't much Python specific there, it's all low-level OS, accessed from Python
04:14<andythenorth>I don't usually leave commented code behind
04:14<andythenorth>but they are essential for debugging
04:14<@Alberth>yeah, I do tend to leave debugging lines in the code
04:15<@Alberth>at least in Python
04:15<andythenorth>I could delete them and reinsert later
04:15<andythenorth>but even figuring out where to reinsert is work :P
04:15<@Alberth>Otherwise I just write them at exactly the same place at a later time :p
04:16<@Alberth>but I do update comment lines too when changing code
04:22*andythenorth puts supplies graphics in brain for later
04:22<andythenorth>sometimes problems aren't solved by working on them
04:25<TrueBrain>meh; travis doesnt want to work it seems :(
04:25<@Alberth>it doesn't work for problems like wanting more tea, however
04:25<TrueBrain>LordAro: I have a review job in DorpsGek-github for you! :P (or anyone else)
04:26<Wolf01><andythenorth> but they are essential for debugging <- I'm commenting a lot of code because I can't even understand what it does on the software I work on
04:29<@Alberth>ha :)
04:29<andythenorth>do the tests still pass after you commented it? o_O
04:30<Wolf01>I hate when the boss/analyst says "I want a form which does the preview of the services bills" where services are something you must bill after the use, as you can't know how much of them you use, but you can see the history and try to create some data from it
04:32<andythenorth>I probably shouldn't eh
04:33<Wolf01>Why not? 128/8 :P
04:34<andythenorth>I was considering buying it
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04:42<Wolf01>V453000: research queue, if it seem useful in late game, why not make it a research for late game?
04:46<andythenorth>are supplies wagons a valid use for cargo subtypes?
04:46<andythenorth>engineering supplies (trucks)
04:46<andythenorth>engineering supplies (diggers)
04:47<andythenorth>or should it just be random
04:47<nielsm>imo random
04:48<andythenorth>and should the vehicles be flippable?
04:48<andythenorth>flip is quite a lot of work to support
04:49<andythenorth>but it's also copy-paste at this point :P
04:57<Wolf01> :O
04:58<andythenorth>eh not bad
04:58<andythenorth>for 6/8 wide
04:58<Wolf01>Even the logo is brick built
04:58<Wolf01>6 wide
04:59<Wolf01>I've seen some 7 wide which are really perfect
05:03<andythenorth>is it annoying when wagon capacities increase for new generations?
05:03<andythenorth>messes with total route capacity
05:03<Wolf01>It is annoying to have new generations
05:03<Wolf01>I want an infinite steam era
05:05<andythenorth>I'm offering 6 generations
05:06<andythenorth>parameters (6 of them) to set the intro year for each generation?
05:06<andythenorth>ugly UI, but valuable?
05:07<Wolf01>Yeah, 1850-3000, 3001, 3002, 3003, 3004, 3005
05:07<andythenorth>dunno if action 14 supports it
05:07<andythenorth>I'd need a default value
05:07<@Alberth>gives people choice when to play
05:08<andythenorth>the default value might change per roster
05:08<andythenorth>is the challenge
05:08<@Alberth>intro year 1800 + n*10 :)
05:08<andythenorth>maybe just a scaling parameter then?
05:08<andythenorth>generations are spaced ~30 years
05:08<@Alberth>would work too
05:09<@Alberth>ha, disable new generations when you don't have servicing :p
05:10<andythenorth>parameter: "Generations: all | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6"
05:11<andythenorth>sometimes I think a tech tree would be useful
05:11<nielsm>"all vehicles", "just the ones you'd be using at end game""
05:11<andythenorth>GS controllable
05:12<andythenorth>offering new vehicles is an interesting reward for goal completion
05:12<@Alberth>indeed it is
05:12<andythenorth>but GS cannot reliably do that per-vehicle (no knowledge of newgrf contents)
05:12<andythenorth>so set a hard goal, and unlock next generation of vehicles
05:12<@Alberth>can't talk to newgrf :(
05:12<andythenorth>I think it would be quite a straightforward gameplay style
05:13<andythenorth>"Complete 6 hard challenges to unlock all vehicles"
05:13<andythenorth>"Then you win"
05:13<andythenorth>Oh a boss level challenge #7 also
05:13<nielsm>well what would a GS-NewGRF interface look like, something message passing based I assume?
05:13<andythenorth>nielsm: I would think cruder than that
05:13<andythenorth>something more like a 'current technology epoch'
05:14<andythenorth>and then have newgrf vehicles define what epoch they belong to
05:14<andythenorth>this also then meets the major use-case for daylenght
05:14<nielsm>hmm that could also be used for newgrf houses to change town looks etc
05:14<andythenorth>and for industry waves
05:14<andythenorth>currently, it's pointless evolving industries over time
05:14<@Alberth>basically you can ask pre-defined questions, I think
05:15<andythenorth>it just breaks the game to use date restrictions on industry
05:15<andythenorth>intro dates could be set as offsets from epoch (for vehicles, industries, houses)
05:16<nielsm>players (i.e. me) want to play around and perfect a setup and then go ahead
05:16<nielsm>not be forced into something upsetting things
05:16<andythenorth>bonus: forums can spend ages arguing about some stupid epoch scheme
05:16<andythenorth>actually, there would be 2 competing ones
05:16<andythenorth>and someone annoying would rage quit
05:16<andythenorth>so community renewal too :D
05:17<andythenorth>I've never written a spec because I never figured out how many epochs there should be
05:18<andythenorth>my sets focus on 1860-2050
05:18<andythenorth>but it seems valid to start at 0 and run to max game date
05:18<andythenorth>so actually it's a really *hard* problem :D
05:19<andythenorth>arbitrary tech levels, 0-255? o_O
05:20<nielsm>but then you can't have a tech tree??
05:20<andythenorth>it's a challenge eh :)
05:20<andythenorth>it's fine if someone just decides
05:20<andythenorth>but how to decide? o_O
05:21<andythenorth>what would default epochs be if there was no GS controlling it?
05:22<@Alberth>every 25-ish years
05:23<andythenorth>and the baseline year?
05:23<@Alberth>or "intro dates"
05:24<nielsm>yeah I think it'd be better to have "no epochs" if there is no GS
05:24<@Alberth>define start of new epoch as intro of a vehicle
05:24<nielsm>otoh, what happens if you use a non-epoch-supporting grf with a epoch-requiring GS?
05:24<andythenorth>ok, so then it falls back to vehicle intro date nielsm? o_O
05:25<@Alberth>you can't agree on a year, as it differs from country to country
05:25<andythenorth>we could reverse-calculate epoch based on intro date tbh
05:25<andythenorth>then re-space the tech tree
05:25<andythenorth>it's just a transform eh
05:25<@Alberth>epochs don't need to be all the same length
05:26<andythenorth>I think if they're GS controlled, then varying the length is a positive
05:26<andythenorth>ok so this would be progressive enhancement on top of intro dates
05:26<@Alberth>definitely, GS would control progress :)
05:26<andythenorth>and newgrf spec wouldn't even need changed
05:26<nielsm>maybe the other way around, let GS query all defined vehicle types and if any single vehicle type does not support epochs it can disable itself
05:26<nielsm>or maybe even let the GS control introduction of epoch-less vehicles?
05:26<andythenorth>I think the latter
05:27<andythenorth>just run over all the intro dates and assign them to lists of vehicles per epoch
05:27<andythenorth>all old grfs are immediately compatible
05:28*andythenorth going out for a few hours :)
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05:30-!-k-man is "Jason Lewis" on #openttd #debian #virt #debian-installer #oftc #debian-au
05:30<k-man>how do i enable the big graphics?
05:30<nielsm>use a different baseset
05:30<@planetmaker>k-man, what is "big graphics" to you? You mean to zoom-in?
05:31<@planetmaker>that should be possible simply via mouse. If you want more detailed graphics (and not just enlarged), yes, might need to use different graphics set(s)
05:33<k-man>i mean the OpenGFX BigGUI
05:34<@planetmaker>That's a NewGRF you need to enable
05:34<TrueBrain>@mode -R
05:34-!-mode/#openttd [-R] by DorpsGek
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05:34-!-DorpsGek_II is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #openttd
05:34<TrueBrain>@mode +R
05:34-!-mode/#openttd [+R] by DorpsGek
05:35<DorpsGek_II>Push to TrueBrain/Testing:testing (5190894) by TrueBrain:
05:35<DorpsGek_II> - More testing
05:35<TrueBrain>taking opinions now
05:35<@planetmaker>take mine :P
05:35<TrueBrain>is an URL useful?
05:36<@planetmaker>where / for what?
05:36<@planetmaker>commits? Yes
05:36<TrueBrain>what does it look like DorpsGek_II just said planetmaker? Connect the dotsssssss :D
05:37<LordAro>TrueBrain: :o
05:37<LordAro>(also bots should use NOTICE ;) )
05:37<TrueBrain>channel notices are really really REALLY annoying
05:38<TrueBrain>(think they are even disabled?)
05:38<LordAro>there's something in the spec - automated messages are supposed to be NOTICE
05:38<k-man>planetmaker, sorry, i can't remmeber how to enable it
05:38<LordAro>prevents bot loops
05:40<@Alberth>one of the more used links :)
05:40<TrueBrain>LordAro: I know of none bot that does that; as a NOTICE is often handled by clients as a global broadcast .. which is very annoying
05:40<@planetmaker>opengfx+biggui's own readme should point to that... but doesn't
05:40<LordAro>only by bad clients...
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05:41<nielsm>I just tried using aBase for a bit, while it's fine that it has larghe icons by default, it works poorly with gui zoom factor, since that also scales the already large icons :(
05:42<TrueBrain>LordAro: yeah ... just a simple google shows projects that tried NOTICE for .. 5 minutes, rolling back immediatly after :)
05:42<TrueBrain>lets not do that
05:42<TrueBrain>hmm, URL is tricky, as URL to what ..
05:42<TrueBrain>if there is 1 commit, sure
05:42<TrueBrain>but if it was a PR with multiple
05:42<nielsm>link the PR?
05:42<@planetmaker>the latest git
05:42<nielsm>if possible
05:42<TrueBrain>is the source always a PR
05:42<TrueBrain>it SHOULD, but ... :D
05:42<LordAro>i can't say i've ever seen such an issue with notices
05:42<LordAro>but sure, whatever
05:43<k-man>but how do i turn on the biggui? i selected it in the newGRF settings page, but the graphics are still small
05:43<TrueBrain>owh, even the GitHub IRC client doesn't do URLs for pushes :D
05:44<TrueBrain>owh, there is a comparing URL
05:44<TrueBrain>that works
05:44<@planetmaker>indeed I really like URLs in the commit notice. It's a BIG convenience thing
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05:45<TrueBrain>@mode -R
05:45-!-mode/#openttd [-R] by DorpsGek
05:45<@planetmaker>I'm curious as to what is new. I want to look at it. Why have us jump, go all manual and find it? :)
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05:45-!-DorpsGek_II is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #openttd
05:45<TrueBrain>@mode +R
05:45-!-mode/#openttd [+R] by DorpsGek
05:45<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I never said I wont do an URL? Why jump to that conclusion? :D I am asking for input :)
05:45<LordAro>could probably try keeping +R off now
05:45<DorpsGek_II>[TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing (5190894) by TrueBrain:
05:45<DorpsGek_II> - More testing
05:45<LordAro>3 lines per commit seems a bit much
05:46<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, I'm just saying GitHub bot does it wrong ;)
05:46<TrueBrain>planetmaker: ah; sorry, that was a bit unclear to me :D
05:46<TrueBrain>now help me do it better :P
05:46<@planetmaker>I think 2 lines would be enough. But I don't see how to squeeze the info into 3 lines :D
05:46<@planetmaker>the links are so lengthy :D
05:47<TrueBrain>lines are just that, lines :D
05:47<LordAro>is there not a shorter url you can use?
05:47<TrueBrain>yeah, github uses shortned URLs, but I find that often counter-productive
05:47<TrueBrain>I am very scared to click them :D
05:47<TrueBrain>you have no clue what the destination is!
05:48<LordAro>only if it's a random link shortener
05:48<LordAro>iirc github has something like
05:48<LordAro>which seems pretty obvious
05:48<LordAro>(i.e. random users cannot create urls for that domain)
05:49<TrueBrain>yes you can; it is just always a URL
05:49<@planetmaker> seems to be as short as it gets
05:49<TrueBrain>you can remove most of the hash
05:49<TrueBrain>you need .. I think .. 11?
05:49<LordAro>6 or 7, iirc
05:49<@planetmaker>needs to stay unique
05:49<TrueBrain>owh, 12
05:50<TrueBrain>the chance of it not being unique is very very slim :)
05:50<TrueBrain>you can see it with the compare URL :)
05:50<LordAro>depends how many commits you have :p
05:50<TrueBrain>anyway, making shorten URLs is annoying as fuck .. not sure if it adds ..
05:51<TrueBrain>(to get the URL, I need to make additional roundtrips)
05:51<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, why do you have *compare* in the link while I end up with *commit* when I seek a certain revision?
05:51<TrueBrain>planetmaker: sorry, what do you mean?
05:52<TrueBrain>a push event can contain multiple commits
05:52<TrueBrain>a link for each commit might be a bit overdoing it
05:53<TrueBrain>so github supplies a single URL that contains all the commits of that push
05:53<@planetmaker>Of course. Only one link. More is spam
05:53<@planetmaker>ah, ok. hm
05:53<TrueBrain>we can say, of course, that if there is only 1 commit to link the commit
05:53<TrueBrain>and if there are more, to use the compare
05:55<TrueBrain>okay, added that in
05:55<TrueBrain>best of both worlds \o/
05:55<TrueBrain>LordAro: btw, to come back to collisions: the CHANCE on a collision is the same, no matter how many commits. The LIKELYHOOD increases.
05:55<TrueBrain>you always have 1/6th chance you roll 6
05:56<TrueBrain>no matter how many times you roll
05:56<TrueBrain>(well, assuming it is a fair dice, ofc :D)
05:56<TrueBrain>"Push to", sounds weird .. but it no longer is "commit"
05:57<LordAro>TrueBrain: yeah, i misspoke. this was what i was thinking of though
05:59<TrueBrain>github is weird .. even a sha has of 4 chars it accepts :P
05:59<LordAro>if it's not ambiguous, why not?
06:00<TrueBrain>if it is ambiguous, it shows 404 :D
06:00<TrueBrain>that is cheap
06:01<@planetmaker>that's fair dice :)
06:02<TrueBrain>I wonder if I should color the message
06:02<TrueBrain>not a big fan myself
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06:03<TrueBrain>@mode -R
06:03-!-mode/#openttd [-R] by DorpsGek
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06:03-!-DorpsGek_II is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #openttd
06:03<DorpsGek_II>[TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing (5190894a857e) by TrueBrain:
06:03<DorpsGek_II> - More testing (Patric Stout)
06:03<TrueBrain>meh, full name .. that is annoying
06:03<TrueBrain>easy fix
06:03<TrueBrain>it now shows who pushed it (a dev), after 'by'
06:04<TrueBrain>and per commit who the author was
06:04<TrueBrain>is that any better?
06:07<LordAro>is the hash on the first line useful? it's duplicated in the url
06:08<k-man>hmmm, still the opengfx_biggui doesn't work for me
06:09<k-man>i've modified the config
06:09<k-man>still doesn't show the bigger size graphics
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06:11<DorpsGek_II>[TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing by TrueBrain:
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06:13<DorpsGek_II>[TrueBrain/Testing] Push to testing by TrueBrain:
06:13<DorpsGek_II> - More testing (by TrueBrain)
06:13<TrueBrain>right, that should do for now .. lets make this into a production-like state :)
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06:13<TrueBrain>@mode +R
06:13-!-mode/#openttd [+R] by DorpsGek
06:14<TrueBrain>and why is Travis not working :(
06:14<TrueBrain>it reads: "booting" ....
06:15<LordAro>what are you using travis for?
06:15<LordAro>it sometimes takes a while to start up, depending on contention, how long have you been waiting for?
06:15<TrueBrain>3 hours
06:16<TrueBrain>you think that is reasonable?
06:16<TrueBrain>(if only I was new to this stuff :P)
06:21<TrueBrain>status of travis clearly shows an issue ... more and more jobs are queued :P
06:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: if you are bored, or just want to be nice, there are PRs in DorpsGek-github and DorpsGek-irc on OpenTTD space; I could really use some feedback
06:25<TrueBrain>and the temperature in this room is too high to be functional for much longer .. ugh :P
06:26<TrueBrain>LordAro: PS: the only thing "wrong" in the PRs, is that it doesn't use .dorpsgek.yml yet to know in which channel to tell about pushes etc
06:26<TrueBrain>I still have to think about how to fix that .. I think I do need a shared library after all ..
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06:32<@planetmaker>k-man, you need to close OpenTTD. Then edit the config file accordingly. Then restart OpenTTD
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06:33<madmax28>Hello :) How come fast-forward with tab doesn't work with my debug build?
06:33<nielsm>in debug builds it's shift and not tab, for some reason
06:33<nielsm>and also, debug builds tend to be seriously slow and fast forward often has little to no effect ;)
06:34<madmax28>I see, well it's still useful for debugging
06:35<madmax28>I'm a new player, and I struggled *a lot* with timetabling...
06:35<@planetmaker>so do experienced players :)
06:35<madmax28>I found out that if a timetable is not fully timetabled, and you use ctrl-click trying to timetable shared order vehicles, it will fail silently
06:36<madmax28>In timetable_cmd.cpp there is a check for that case, where it tries to return an error in that case
06:37<madmax28>But that check is never triggered, because timetable_gui.cpp also performs the check and simply removes the ctrl-click bit
06:37<@planetmaker>as you describe it, it sounds like a bug :)
06:38<madmax28>I removed that but in timetable_gui.cpp. Now an error is generated in that case. Is this something people might want to get merged?
06:38<madmax28>that bit*
06:41<@planetmaker>I think it might make sense to inform the user that an action has no or not the intended consequence.
06:50<k-man>planetmaker, i did, several times
06:54<@planetmaker>did you edit the correct config file? OpenTTD can and does read from several locations... if you edited the one not being used... it would not have any effect
07:00<k-man>planetmaker, i think its the correct one, as when i re-examine the file, the setting gets a long number prepended to it
07:01<k-man>like: 52577801|20B5D8122F2B4AD74ADDA30E44BA8233|opengfx_biggui-2.0.0/ogfx-biggui.grf = 1
07:02<@planetmaker>opengfx_biggui-2.0.0/ogfx-biggui.grf = 1
07:02<@planetmaker>should suffice?
07:03<k-man>yeah, openttd, prepends that number infront if it after i run it
07:03<@planetmaker>ah, ok
07:03<@planetmaker>then it should be ok
07:03<@planetmaker>and the one being used
07:03<k-man>can i get openttd to give more debugging output?
07:05<k-man>in game options, it says OpenGFX is the base graphics set.
07:05<@planetmaker>-d grf=9 will spam you :)
07:05<k-man>is that corrct?
07:05<@planetmaker>dunno whether it's correct. Probably
07:05<@planetmaker>but doesn't matter really for the newgrf usage
07:05<k-man>dbg: [grf] GRFInfo: Loaded GRFv7 set 52577801 - OpenGFX BigGUI 2.0.0 (palette: DOS, version: 19)
07:06<@planetmaker>btw, opengfx+biggui, does NOT enlarge the buttons on the start screen. For those you need to edit the font size
07:06<k-man>seems like its loaded
07:06<@planetmaker>you need to actually load a savegame to see an enlargement
07:06<@planetmaker>so maybe enlarge the used font sizes, too :D
07:07<@planetmaker>which means you'll need to choose a font, too
07:07<k-man>hmm, no, the buttons are all still small
07:07<k-man>i had it working before on a build of openttd from source. but i wanted to drop back to released version
07:08<@planetmaker> should still be correct for showing how to change font and size
07:09<k-man>yeah, i read that
07:10<k-man>and made the font changes
07:12<k-man>ok, i increased font sizes, that part is working
07:12<k-man>oh, i found it
07:12<k-man>you have to go to game settings/ interface size
07:12<k-man>and change that
07:16<k-man>thanks for your help planetmaker
07:51<k-man>how do i place signals all the way along the line?
07:52<@peter1138>Click and drag.
07:55<k-man>i thought there was a way to place signals along the whole path
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08:18<k-man>ctrl+click and drag seems to do it
08:25<@planetmaker>k-man, make use of the tooltips by hovering the mouse over buttons :) They often explain the button's normal function as well as in conjuction with ctrl
08:28<@peter1138>Does it need ctrl? Hmm.
08:32<@planetmaker>might. I think w/o ctrl it drags along the strech you dragged. with ctrl to the next junction
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09:03<nielsm>annoying you can't report a forum topic for spam without opening it
09:03<nielsm>I don't want to open it and risk hitting their embedded images
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09:11<andythenorth>I have done responsible parenting
09:11<andythenorth>now I must to draw pixels
09:14<andythenorth>looks like supplies cargo is solved
09:14<andythenorth>this one might clip bridges
09:26<@Alberth>more likely bridges clip the cargo :p
09:27<@Alberth>ie something's got to move, and it aint the bridge
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09:35<@peter1138>Bridges aren't high enough? Just like TTD?
09:54<andythenorth>is it coffee time?
09:57<@Alberth>looks like it is
09:58<andythenorth>must be
09:58*andythenorth needs coffee to write graphics pipelines
10:08<Wolf01>I had my coffee and I only want to sleep
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11:44<Afdal>Why'd this change to a registered nicks only channel :'(
11:46<Afdal>Anyone without making me go dig into my old newgrf modding
11:46<Afdal>could someone tell me what the maximum power is that a train engine can have?
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11:52<madmax28>Hmm, when i configure OpenTTD with --enable-debug=3 (to turn off optimizations), the game won't run from gdb.. Any ideas why?
11:52<madmax28>Or is it just taking ages? :)
12:03<LordAro>madmax28: it's just taking ages :)
12:03<LordAro>debug builds are *big*
12:04<madmax28>LordAro: Then printf debugging will have to do ;)
12:05<LordAro>although i wouldn't expect it to take >5mins
12:05<madmax28>Hacking OpenTTD is fun! :) What do you think about this idea?:
12:06<@Alberth>tracing arbitrary access to a variable may be slow
12:14<Afdal>It's 65,535 hp isn't it...
12:20<@peter1138>Yeah, I dunno why it takes so long with enable-debug=3 and gdb.
12:20<@peter1138>About a couple of minutes to start on my i7-8700k...
12:20<@peter1138>Once it's started it's fine. Debug sluggish but not unusable.
12:33<andythenorth>hot here
12:39<TrueBrain>so with all the spam, when are we moving to Slack? :P
12:39<TrueBrain>or Discord?
12:40<andythenorth>there's no spam on slack? :o
12:40<andythenorth>is it magic?
12:40<TrueBrain>because you need to register an account, I would assume they can mitigate that easier
12:40<TrueBrain>but, it is an assumption :D
12:45<Afdal>Discord = datamining central
12:45<Afdal>How about we move to Matrix
12:49<LordAro>pretty sure you can try removing +R now
12:51<TrueBrain>you can always try ;)
12:51<LordAro>no, i can't :p
12:51<TrueBrain>you can TRY
12:59<TrueBrain>yippie, my bot now listens to .dorpsgek.yml to see where it should announce stuff
12:59<TrueBrain>that I like a lot more :D
13:08<TrueBrain>and yippie, travis is back on its feet!
13:14<TrueBrain>this made me giggle: Fix Dutch language! THE DUTCH LANGUAGE IS UNFIXABLE! :D
13:16<TrueBrain>LordAro: with what can I bribe you to look at my changes? :D
13:17<LordAro>TrueBrain: an extra few hours in the day?
13:17<TrueBrain>I was afraid of that :P
13:17<TrueBrain>we need more (active) Python people :D
13:18<Afdal>oh wait Dutch is different from Danish?
13:18<andythenorth>I nominate.....Alberth?
13:18<Afdal>I never knew this...
13:18<TrueBrain>Alberth is not here!
13:18<TrueBrain>owh, he is
13:18<TrueBrain>hihi :D
13:18<TrueBrain>for some reason I did not see that when I looked at the nicklist :( SORRY!!!
13:19<@Alberth>mostly just lurking, hacking python to understand grf
13:20<TrueBrain>today I saw a movie about RCT (the first version) .. it made me giggle how much it looked like TT :)
13:20<TrueBrain>totally forgot about that
13:20<@Alberth>it misses frisian as not-dutch :)
13:22<Afdal>lol at Denmark
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13:25<TrueBrain>hmm, weird, your approval ( LordAro ) is not sufficient for me to submit it .. nowhere I see an option that the approval has to be of a dedicated group or something
13:26<TrueBrain>bit weird
13:26<PT_>Hello there :)
13:26<TrueBrain>LordAro: funny, you first had to be a collaberator :D
13:26<TrueBrain>PT_: hi
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13:28<LordAro>TrueBrain: haha
13:28<PT_>Do Github notifications get posted here?
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13:30<TrueBrain>they do in #openttd.notice (for now)
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14:40<TrueBrain>@mode -R
14:40-!-mode/#openttd [-R] by DorpsGek
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14:48<TrueBrain>okay, DorpsGek updates deployed .. now lets enable it :)
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14:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] Push to master by TrueBrain:
14:51<DorpsGek_II> - Add: notify IRC about pushes to this repository (by TrueBrain)
14:51-!-DorpsGek_II is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #openttd
14:51<TrueBrain>I like the host DorpsGek_II has :D
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14:55<TrueBrain>Pull Request support is relative easy now, but one step at the time :)
14:57<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] Push to master by TrueBrain:
14:57<DorpsGek_II> - Add: notify IRC about pushes to this repository (by TrueBrain)
14:57<Xaroth>, lolz
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14:59<TrueBrain>okay, PR for OpenTTD is also there; that just needs approval
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause2>TrueBrain: can you have DorpsGek_II msg DorpsGek and he repeats the message here, instead of constantly joining and leaving?
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15:00<TrueBrain>(well, that was an easy question/answer) :D
15:00<Eddi|zuHause2>not a particularly satisfying one :p
15:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't imagine that being difficult
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15:01<TrueBrain>a lot of people imagine a lot of things; yet nobody is willing to help me out *shrug*
15:01<TrueBrain>but your solution is also based on faulty information :)
15:01<TrueBrain>so you might be surprised how it really works, versus how you assumed it does :D
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>that might be
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>but at this pace, we're not converging on a common understanding of the problem :p
15:02<TrueBrain>I just adjusted to the normal standards of this channel :P
15:02<TrueBrain>anyway, DorpsGek_II is linked to a CD
15:02<TrueBrain>so when ever you merge something in master
15:02<TrueBrain>it ends up, for now, directly in production
15:03<TrueBrain>so as soon as it was done reporting he himself got changed, he was restarted with the latest code :P
15:03<TrueBrain>(hence him leaving)
15:03<Xaroth>deploying straight to production, because who needs acceptance tests :D
15:03<TrueBrain>he wont join back unless he has something to say .. he is lazy like that
15:03<TrueBrain>Xaroth: welcome to the list of dickheads :)
15:03<Xaroth>You had that one coming!
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>plenty of those going around :p
15:04<TrueBrain>yeah .. a bit the common problem in OpenTTD .. a lot of "you had that coming", very little "let me help you"
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15:05<Xaroth>Tell you what; remind me when I'm back from the UK next week and I'll dedicate some time in assisting with whatever needs assistance at that point.
15:05<TrueBrain>I would like an icecream :)
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>i have one of those, should i mail it to you?
15:06<Xaroth>If you didn't live so far away, and I wasn't so bloody lazy, I would have driven to a McDonalds close to your house and bring you a McFlurry.
15:08<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: was that answer btw more stisfying? :D
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15:10<Eddi|zuHause>a bit
15:11<TrueBrain>I guess it is better than not :D
15:11<TrueBrain>I want to try to move BaNaNaS to GCP CDN .. but not sure how to start :D
15:15<TrueBrain>and I am really surprised how easy kubernetes is once you have it setup .. so smoottthhhhh
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15:22<LordAro>TrueBrain: what was result of talks with GCP?
15:23<TrueBrain>last talk we had was 2 weeks ago; heard nothing so far
15:23<TrueBrain>assume it is somewhere in their pipeline
15:23<TrueBrain>will drop them a message next week to see how it is going
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15:24<TrueBrain>but we have the free trial for now, so that is a good moment to test how stuff works
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15:35<andythenorth>so how to partial load something like a bulldozer? :P
15:35<andythenorth>it's indivisible cargo
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>so i'm gone for a few days and andy descended into brand new holes of madness?
15:43<TrueBrain>andythenorth: so you cannot partial load it/ :D
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15:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's an old old problem
15:48<andythenorth>same issue with something vanilla, like a steel coil
15:48<andythenorth>if there's only 1, what's the 'loading' state :P
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>how is that a problem?
15:48<TrueBrain>you can only also load 1?
15:48<nielsm>maybe have those cargos produced in small unit counts but weigh a lot and pay a lot on delivery?
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>you either show one or you don't
15:49<@peter1138>andythenorth, loading equipment
15:49<TrueBrain>so you want to show the progress how far that loading of 1 is :D
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15:50<andythenorth>so we're filing it under non-problem
15:52<TrueBrain>so we give 3 solutions, and you dismiss the problem .. that is not nice! :P
15:52<andythenorth>I went with eddi's solution
15:53<andythenorth>eddi has to be right sometimes
15:53<TrueBrain>BUT WHY THIS TIME! :'(
15:53<andythenorth>least work
15:53<andythenorth>all I have to do is adjust my brain :D
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16:02<Eddi|zuHause>that is surprisingly difficult sometimes :p
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>now, there's a dead person in my paradox plaza...
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16:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Push to master by TrueBrain:
16:43<DorpsGek_II> - Add: notify IRC about pushes to this repository (by TrueBrain)
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16:45<TrueBrain>still not happy with the first line .. "TrueBrain pushed N commits to master"
16:45<TrueBrain>might be better
16:45<TrueBrain>something to sleep on
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18:04<k-man>how do i find a factory on my map?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>a specific one?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>there's the industry list, if you click the industry button at the top
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>and on the map, you can switch to industry view, and enable/disable each kind of industry by clicking on it
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>particularly useful there is "blinking" by clicking on it repeatedly
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20:09<k-man>my multiplayer window is too big, and the buttons at the bottom are off the bottom of the screen
20:09<k-man>and i can't resize it
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20:36<Eddi|zuHause>what resolution are you playing?
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>also, i think there was some ctrl+click thing to resize it to the default size
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>in case you resized it
20:38<k-man>yeah tried that, didnt' work
20:38<k-man>i managed to fix it by changing the resolution of the game
20:39<k-man>next question, how do i cheat add more money?
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>cheats are disabled in multiplayer
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>save the game, load it in single player, cheat, load it back in multiplayer
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>but it's so easy to make money, why would you even do that?
20:45<k-man>ah ok
20:45<k-man>teaching my 9yo son
20:46<k-man>for now we just need to learn about building stuff
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 05 00:00:48 2018