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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-08-05

---Logopened Sun Aug 05 00:00:48 2018
---Daychanged Sun Aug 05 2018
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01:18-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
01:18-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
01:19<k-man>morning Alberth
01:19<k-man>except it's afternoon here
01:20<@Alberth>"moin" is closer to "hello" :)
01:21<k-man>Alberth, TIL!
01:21<k-man>thank you
01:24<@Alberth>also, there is UGT (universal Greetings Time) in IRC, where everybody joins in the morning and leaves in the evening, no matter what local time says :)
01:25<k-man>oh, i didn't know that concept either
01:25<@Alberth>me neither for many years, until I ran into the idea
01:25<k-man>and I've only been using irc for like 25 years
01:25<@Alberth>it's a nice solution I think
01:28<k-man>why are there no debian stretch builds of openttd?
01:28<k-man>on the download page
01:29<@Alberth>likely because they are not built ;p
01:29<@Alberth>compiler farm is being restructured currently, I understood
01:29<k-man>oh i see
01:29<@Alberth>don't know what the aim is though
01:30<@Alberth>but you can simply use the generic binary, you don't need to install it
01:30<@Alberth>just unpack and run
01:30<k-man>the jessie .debs work, but you have to muck around installing a few old dependencies
01:30<k-man>i'll try that
01:30<k-man>the generic binary that is
01:32<@Alberth>I am used to the Fedora (RPM) system, and at work I now use an Ubuntu system. I find the Debian a little less easy to use
01:32<@Alberth>lots of small silly steps you have to be aware of
01:32<k-man>fair enough
01:33<k-man>i find i have that exact problem with ubuntu
01:33<@Alberth>oh, ubuntu itself is quite uselss :p
01:35<@Alberth>eg, to update a system, you first have to update the repo-lists as a separate step
01:35<@Alberth>I mean, you ever not want to do that when you want to update your packages?
01:36<k-man>oh i see what you mean
01:36<k-man>yeah, i guess
01:36<@Alberth>but they'll get there? there is now finally a single "apt" command, instead of 4 or 5 different ones
01:36<k-man>and you can now turn on auto updates
01:37<@Alberth>I do like to see what is changed, so it's not fully automatic, but ubuntu does automatically warn me
01:38<@Alberth>and there ubuntu is even smarter, it already downloads stuff, while fedora starts doing that after I say "update"
01:39<@Alberth>but al pretty minor differences :)
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01:55<k-man>is there a keyboard shortcut for the land height level tool?
01:58<@Alberth>somewhere near wqe I think
01:59<k-man>ah, E
02:00<@Alberth>trying to build flat tracks?
02:01<k-man>just mucking around
02:01<k-man>its been a few years since i plaid
02:02<@Alberth>I stopped doing that a few years back, it makes track building much more fun, as you have to think how to exploit the landscape :)
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02:02<k-man>good point
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02:43<k-man>i keep getting messages about no suitable ai
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02:44<k-man>what AI should I download?
02:44<@Alberth>you have a non-zero of AI players set, probably
02:45<@Alberth> I knew I had a list somewhere :)
02:45<@Alberth>ie it depends on what you like to have as competition :)
02:45<@Alberth>personally, I never play with an AI, it's just annoying :)
02:48<andythenorth>or just set AI to 0
02:49<k-man>yeah, how do i just turn off the npcs ?
02:50<andythenorth>AI / GS Settings
03:05<k-man>can you have more than one train loading at a time?
03:05<k-man>i have 2 trains in the station, but only one gets cargo at a time
03:08<@Alberth>supply more cargo :)
03:09<k-man>theres loads
03:09<@Alberth>cargo is allocated to one train until it's full, then the next is filled
03:09<@Alberth>are you using cargodist?
03:09<k-man>unless its turned on by default, probably not
03:09<k-man>i don't know what that is
03:10<@Alberth>open station window, are there yellow "+" marks at the end of the cargo line?
03:11<@Alberth>ok, no cargodist then
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03:11<@Alberth>trains are all empty, and can accept the available cargo?
03:12<k-man>i think its just the slow loading speed
03:12<@Alberth>train set decides loading speed, rather than the cargo
03:13<k-man>do newer trains load faster?
03:13<k-man>i noticed a newer engine seemed to load faster
03:13<@Alberth>if you use a newgrf for trains, pretty much anything is possible
03:13<@Alberth>but new trains also affect station rating
03:14<@Alberth>"there's loads" means there is a big stack at the station, or just the industry produces much?
03:15<k-man>499 tonnes waiting at station
03:15<@Alberth>open the train window, that fits in that one loading train?
03:15<@Alberth>slow loading also happens if your train is longer than the platform
03:16<k-man>yeah, train is 5, and station is 5 units
03:17<nielsm>with the original vehicles, they should load 5 units into every car about twice a day
03:17<@Alberth>that should be ok then
03:17<nielsm>so a car with 4 cars can load 20 units at a time, and a car with 8 cars can load 40 units at a time
03:18<k-man>its deffinitely loading them faster now
03:18<k-man>notsure why it was slow before
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03:18<@Alberth>o/ Wolf01
03:18<k-man>i think it had run out of coal before and I didn't notice
03:18<@Alberth>stack was smaller than expected :)
03:19<@Alberth>use the chips station set, you'll get cargo graphics displayed on the platform if there is cargo waiting
03:20<@Alberth>probably other station sets can do that too, no idea
03:20<@Alberth>I found chips simple enough for my purposes
03:21<k-man>how do i get a station set?
03:21<@Alberth>in-game download
03:21<k-man>ah ok
03:21<@Alberth>but you need to install the newgrf, and that only works for a new game
03:21<@Alberth>ie once started a game, you cannot reliably change the setup
03:31<k-man>why is my orders "unload and then take
03:32<k-man>i click Unload all, and it seems to be unloading, then re-loading
03:33<Wolf01>Does the station accept the cargo you are unloading?
03:33<k-man>ooh no
03:33<k-man>what the
03:34<k-man>i built the station with 1 row of squares touching the power station, but it said it didn't accept coal
03:34<k-man>i just increased the size of the station, now it accepts coal
03:34<Wolf01>If you want to make a train to just unload and let the cargo wait there, like on a hub station, you must use "unload and leave empty"
03:35<k-man>ah, i see
03:37<Wolf01>Also, don't use forced unload on stations which accept that cargo, IIRC it doesn't end up well :P
03:40<k-man>so what do i make the order?
03:40<Wolf01>Just make the train visit the station, it should handle itself
03:50<nielsm>power stations are a bit weird, it's only this one tile type in it that accepts coal:
03:51<nielsm>(large house with small smokestack)
03:52<nielsm>on oil refineries, it's also only the flaming towers that accept oil
03:52<@peter1138>Well you deliver the coal to the plant, not to the stacks ;)
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04:20<Wolf01>Could I be able to play diablo 3 without lag for 15 minutes today?
04:22<Wolf01>Started a game: disconnected... it's like when you wake up dead
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04:52<Wolf01>Meh, here is the lag
04:55<TrueBrain>hhherrreeeeee's joohhnnyyyyy
04:56<Wolf01>2.5s of lag
04:56<TrueBrain>you on 3G?
04:57<Wolf01>I don't think it's on my side
04:57<Wolf01>Now 240ms
04:58<andythenorth>moin TB
04:59<TrueBrain>hi andythenorth :)
04:59<andythenorth>what colour should bulldozers be then someone?
04:59<TrueBrain>yellow, duh
05:00<andythenorth>I could randomise colours a bit
05:00<andythenorth>because this isn't complicated enough already
05:01<TrueBrain>NO! YELLOW! NO! NO andythenorth! NO!
05:01<andythenorth>yellow is fine too
05:03<Wolf01>So it seem I need to stream something like netflix, youtube or such while playing diablo or else I get lag spikes
05:03<nielsm>did nml get fixed? :D
05:05<andythenorth>no I am making train grfs :P
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05:25<TrueBrain>okay, added support for Pull Request notifications in DorpsGek_II
05:25<TrueBrain>hopefully someone has a bit of idle CPU cycles to look at the code :)
05:26<TrueBrain>PRs are a bit tricky .. a comment on a PR has very little information about the PR
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05:39<nielsm>why does CargotypeListProp in nml/actions/ write bytex values when all (okay at least some of) the properties it gets used for take regular byte values and not bytex values
05:42<andythenorth>possibly it's just wrong? o_O
05:42<andythenorth>nml is pretty effective, but it's likely not at all perfect
05:43*andythenorth goes back to wondering about indirection
05:43<andythenorth>and why there's so much :|
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06:07<andythenorth>is there a way to get reliable dict order in python? :P
06:07<andythenorth>I know there's an OrderedDict but eh
06:07<nielsm>dict is by nature unordered
06:07<andythenorth>can I just sort result on .keys() every time?
06:07<nielsm>so either OrderedDict, or an array of pairs
06:07<andythenorth>yeah array of pairs is my usual solution
06:08<andythenorth>kind of ugly to look at
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06:25<nielsm>is it okay to use fancy python tricks in nml?
06:25<nielsm>like [1, 1, 2, 4, 4][org_max] to get a value of 2 when org_max==2 and 4 when org_max==3
06:28<TrueBrain>andythenorth: upgrade to .. Python .. 3.6? or 3.7? There dicts are always ordered :D
06:28<TrueBrain>3.6 :)
06:29<nielsm>did it turn out the overhead of a tree or hash table structure was bigger than plain linear search?
06:31<andythenorth>really? o_O
06:31<andythenorth>I am in python 3.5
06:31<andythenorth>3.6 is possible
06:32<andythenorth>nielsm: that's not a fancy trick, that's just python, no? :P
06:32<andythenorth>like doing ternary as (A, B)[boolean]
06:32<frosch123>TrueBrain: <- how do i get dorpsgek to create those issues? :p
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06:54<nielsm>hmm, how would it make sense to make the input_multipliers property?
06:55<frosch123>in nml?
06:55<nielsm>the grf representation of list of triplets, or a long table, or what
06:55<frosch123>i think list of triplets
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06:56<frosch123>no idea what you mean with "long table"
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06:56<nielsm>does nml syntax allow arrays of arrays, or should I just assert that the array length is a multiple of 3?
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>look at the railtype translation table?
06:59<frosch123>actually, how about: [ input1: [ output1: multiplier11, output2: multiplier12], input2: [..] ]
06:59<frosch123>(no idea, about the [ and :
06:59<frosch123>i just mean the structure of listing all outputs per input
07:00<nielsm>I have zero experience reading or writing actual nml files, and the documentation is severely lacking in examples, so I really don't know what's customary :)
07:00<nielsm>I don't even know what a property taking a simple list of values looks like
07:02<frosch123>hmm,looks like all complex properties have separate definitions linked by name
07:02<frosch123> <- like that one
07:05<frosch123>hmm, looks like the tilelayout is the only property of similar complexity
07:08<frosch123>it's somewhat weird since i do not think any layout is linked from multiple places
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07:20<k-man>do larger airports become available later in the game?
07:25<nielsm>there's an overview of all the types
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07:28<andythenorth>I probably can't rely on python 3.6 everywhere :P
07:29*nielsm feels dumb now
07:29<nielsm>assumed "print_bytex" meant writing one of those "extended byte" values
07:30<nielsm>when it means writing a byte in hex formatting
07:32<Wolf01>Voltron's black lion time
07:33<k-man>thanks nielsm
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08:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's somehow unusally cold for a heat wave
08:10<Wolf01>Try to move away from the air conditioner
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08:55<nielsm>oh, house acceptance in nml is specified as an array of (pair) arrays
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09:52<TrueBrain>frosch123: you want DorpsGek to create issues? :D I don't really follow :P
09:52<TrueBrain>owh, you want to create them via the DorpsGek user?
09:53<TrueBrain>frosch123: did you make a script for this, or what is it I am looking at?
09:55<frosch123>yes, i collected some tools and configured them to read from devzone and write to gh
09:56<TrueBrain>are you using the /import/issues API of GitHub to create the issues?
09:56<frosch123>it exports redmine issues as json, then applies some transformations for labels and stuff, and then it needs some github user and pw to be able to create issues on gh
09:56<TrueBrain>as if you don't use the /import/issues API endpoint, you will hit the rate limiter really really quick :(
09:57<frosch123>it uses the api with 5000 calls/day
09:57<frosch123>but that is no issue for our redmine projects
09:57<frosch123>they are not that big
09:57<TrueBrain>there are many rate limiters .. sadly, there is also one that monitors for "how many emails do you send out, possibly"
09:58<frosch123>there are only 400 issues for nml
09:58<TrueBrain>creating issues is limited, to my estimation, 1 every 1 minute, for 10+
09:58<frosch123>and that is already the biggest project
09:58<TrueBrain>yeah .. I never managed to import 400 issues when not using the /import/issues :D
09:58<TrueBrain>I don't know if you remember me complaining about it, but it is a huge pita :)
09:58<TrueBrain>the /import/issues does not send any emails .. the normal /issues does .. which is heavily rate limited
09:59<frosch123>planetmaker: did you get emails the other day?
09:59<TrueBrain>cant you look in the tool what endpoint it uses? :D
09:59<frosch123> <- that issue links to user planetmaker
10:01<TrueBrain>the /import/issues API also lets you set the time of issues/comments; given they are all 6 days old, I am going to assume it is not using the proper API :D
10:01<frosch123>it uses pygithub3
10:01<TrueBrain>still allows both ways ;)
10:03<@planetmaker>frosch123, e-mails from github on 30.7?
10:03<frosch123> <- that one
10:03<@planetmaker>about nml issues?
10:03<TrueBrain>yeah .. so you won't make it through 400 imports :)
10:04<frosch123>planetmaker: yes, maybe about you being mentioned in some issue
10:04<TrueBrain>you can try; but try it with an API token you are not using for anything else :P It will block the whole user every time :D
10:05<TrueBrain>(I don't know if you remember, but it took me over a week to figure out why I couldnt import the stuff, and what was going on ..)
10:05<frosch123>yes, i just assumed that these are way fewer issues
10:05<frosch123>and i can also just import 50 and split it over 8 days
10:05<TrueBrain>I couldn't get it to import more than 25 issues per hour :P
10:07<TrueBrain>please dry-run it with a throw-away user; DorpsGek is now also used for DorpsGek_II, so blocking his API also has some other consequences :D
10:07<@planetmaker> <-- @ frosch123
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10:08<TrueBrain>the /import/issues API is btw pretty nice; and allowing to set timestamps was also really helping, I think
10:08<TrueBrain>but not sure how much effort you want to put in this :D
10:08<frosch123>planetmaker: i removed the user mapping, i only could figure it out for 3 people anyway
10:09<@planetmaker>I don't think it's an issue...
10:09<frosch123>well, but pointless :) i only know you, albert and me
10:09<frosch123>most users are unlinked between devzone and gh
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10:15<DorpsGek_II_>[TrueBrain/Testing] TrueBrain opened new pull request #2: Testing
10:15-!-DorpsGek_II_ is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #openttd
10:15<TrueBrain>feedback on the above line?
10:16<DorpsGek_II_>[TrueBrain/Testing] TrueBrain commented on pull request #2: Testing
10:16<DorpsGek_II_>[TrueBrain/Testing] TrueBrain closed pull request #2: Testing
10:16<TrueBrain>to complete the sequence :P
10:17<@peter1138>Looks sensible to me.
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>those messages seem like things better suited for #openttd.notice?
10:19<frosch123>i like them here :)
10:19<TrueBrain>people keep on complaining they have no notifactions here .. and once there are, people dont want them here :P
10:19<frosch123>eddi can go to .notice
10:19<TrueBrain>you people are funny :D
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>well, the idea of .notice was that the bot can be more spammy there
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>at least that was my understanding
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>the question is the right balance
10:20<frosch123>no, the idea was to make the bot post here to disrupt the channel spammers
10:20<TrueBrain>I had 1 complain the nightlies are not working; I had 10 complains that .notice is not this channel :D
10:20<frosch123>and to make andy feel less lonely
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: typical bikeshedding ratio
10:21<LordAro>i could suggest that comments & closing PRs are not hugely relevant in here
10:21<LordAro>(leaving commits/merges & opening PRs)
10:21<@planetmaker>I like those messages here, too. But bike shedding is soooo nice :)
10:22<TrueBrain>well, the good thing is, it will be in the OpenTTD what is reported where, so you can fight that out among yourself :P
10:22<TrueBrain>right, that means I only have to do issue create/comment/close, which should be easier
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, if we compare it to "the (good?) (old?) past", we used to have the commits announced here, not new issues created on flyspray
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10:24<TrueBrain>I am not sure yet if I like the URL behind the title of the PR .. it looks a bit weird
10:25<TrueBrain>but, lets be agile, and see how it works out in production
10:25<TrueBrain>anyone feels like reviewing my work, or shall I just overwrite the "need review" and push this to production? :D
10:26<nielsm>idea: if the bot is permanent in the channel, only post a summary of the change, and let (some?) users give a !details command or similar to get more about it
10:26<TrueBrain>nielsm: lets call that !detail an URL? :D
10:27<TrueBrain>and is there anything more besides what it just reported as "summary"?
10:28-!-DorpsGek_II_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:33<TrueBrain>nielsm: or did you have something completely different in mind with "post a summary"?
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10:36<frosch123>i think the url is the most important part
10:37<frosch123>please don't hide that behind an additional command :)
10:37<TrueBrain>I also think the URL is the 'detail' part
10:37<TrueBrain>so no need for additional interaction
10:38<frosch123> <- that one'?
10:38<TrueBrain>DorpsGek-irc and DorpsGek-github, yes
10:38<TrueBrain>but I found a bug! It wasnt telling about updates to the PR ..
10:38<TrueBrain>no wit does :D
10:39<TrueBrain>my clipboard and Konversation are not good friends .... it works for a day or so .. then it breaks
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>never had a problem with that
10:41<frosch123>hmm, looks like i need to read about async and wait, i only know yield
10:41<TrueBrain>await is almost identical to yield
10:41<TrueBrain>except that is wants a coroutine :)
10:42<TrueBrain>(and async makes the function into a coroutine :D)
10:52<frosch123>f-syntax looks scary
10:52<TrueBrain>I am very unsure still what to think of it
10:52<TrueBrain>it is an upgrade from format() for sure
10:52<TrueBrain>it is less typing than %
10:53<TrueBrain>but ... it feels weird
10:53<frosch123>i always use format(), never %
10:53<frosch123>i like the separation of the template string and the parameters
10:53<TrueBrain>I really dislike format() .. it is such a weird way of doing stuff .. and readability is near zero ..
10:53<frosch123>otherwise i always think people can inject stuff
10:53<TrueBrain>yeah, the f"" tried to keep that of format()
10:54<frosch123>anyway, can't say much about the PRs, python still has no switch() :)
10:54<TrueBrain>I am mostly interesting if I didnt do something stupid
10:54<TrueBrain>like commit a password
10:54<TrueBrain>or leave a stupid comment
10:54<TrueBrain>the usual
10:55<frosch123>i did not encounter any passwords
10:55<TrueBrain>in the mean time, a sneak peak
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10:55<DorpsGek_II_>[TrueBrain/Testing] TrueBrain opened issue #3: New issue!
10:55-!-DorpsGek_II_ is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #openttd #dorpsgek
10:55<DorpsGek_II_>[TrueBrain/Testing] TrueBrain commented on issue #3: New issue!
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10:55<DorpsGek_II_>[TrueBrain/Testing] TrueBrain closed issue #3: New issue!
10:56<TrueBrain>textual all looks as expected?
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10:56<TrueBrain>(what does mine say?)
10:57<frosch123>i do not know that quote, if it is one
10:59<frosch123>are 3 dorpsgeks too overwhelming?
10:59<andythenorth>'make trains' became 'refactor the compile'
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11:00<TrueBrain>frosch123: depends on who you ask :D But the last one that left is staging version
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11:03<Eddi|zuHause>(such an incredibly stupid movie)
11:03<frosch123>oh, ... so i actually knew the quote
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>i literally forgot everything else the movie was about
11:05<frosch123>about transfunctioning the future and blowing pipes
11:05<TrueBrain>such a cool movie :D But especially the sweet/dude part is fantastic :D
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>cool and stupid are not mutually exclusive :p
11:06<frosch123>i think it was it when 13, recommended it to my 22 year old sister. she went there with some friends, and they were like: who recommended this movie?
11:07<TrueBrain>haha :D
11:07<TrueBrain>okay, issue stuff also up for review
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11:07<TrueBrain>I seriously love the staging/producton CD .. so much easier to work with stuff if you can test it!
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>oh man, i haven't looked into my movie archive folder for like 10 years
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>but looks like that movie is not there
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>"Das singende, klingende Bäumchen.avi" why the hell would i have that?
11:11<TrueBrain>lets not talk about why things are or are not in your movie collection :P
11:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] Push to master by TrueBrain:
11:12<DorpsGek_II> - Add: allow default notifications, and minor fixes to push notification (by TrueBrain)
11:12<DorpsGek_II> - Add: support notifications about pull-request open/reopen/closed/comment (by TrueBrain)
11:12<DorpsGek_II> - Add: support notifications about issues open/closed/comment (by TrueBrain)
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11:17<Wolf01>Good boy TrueBrain
11:17<TrueBrain>I am not a freaking dog! :P
11:17<frosch123>dorpsgek is the good boy
11:18<frosch123>tb is the evil wizzzzard
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11:22<TrueBrain><DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #6878: Add: notify IRC about pull-requests and issues
11:22<TrueBrain>after that commit is merged, things will happily be reported in this channel again .. :D
11:27<TrueBrain>not sure if #openttd.notice is useful still , but lets see how things turn out :)
11:27<TrueBrain>it is easy to add finer filters, so meh :)
11:28<TrueBrain>there is one flow of events I did not consider enough .. if you merge somethig in DorpsGek-github, and shortly after in DorpsGek-irc, the last one gets lost .. as the DorpsGek-github means the CD kicks in, and restarts the production DorpsGek-github, which is keeping track of the status of the CD .. forgetting it should do DorpsGek-irc :D
11:29<TrueBrain>but easy solution .. don't merge them quickly one after the other :P
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>human solutions to technical problems, nothing wrong with that :p
11:33<TrueBrain>a solution in policy can be stronger than a solution in software, indeed :D
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11:36<@Alberth>hi hi
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i just had a support case where a "don't do A and B quickly after each other" blew up after like 5 years :p
11:46<TrueBrain>how it should be!
11:46<TrueBrain>if it was never fixed in 5 years .. it needs attention again!
11:46<@planetmaker>of course after 5 years the memory has faded about the "don't do"s
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11:47<TrueBrain>okay, if DorpsGek_II joins but doesnt say anything ... that is not what should happen :D
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: over those 5 years the tolerance for "quick" seems to have decayed from 3 seconds to 10 seconds
11:48<LordAro>TrueBrain: lol
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>perhaps he changed his mind?
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11:49<TrueBrain>indeed I completely forgot one case ..
11:49<@Alberth>collected enough stuff to crawl through in those 5 years, Eddi? :)
11:51<TrueBrain>but at least the error tollerance of DorpsGek_II is very high .. it only skipped that one thing it didnt understand, but did execute all other tasks :D
11:51<@Alberth>unfortunately, you gave it only one task :p
11:52<andythenorth>I pressed 'tab' to try and ffwd my compile :(
11:52<@Alberth>haha :D
11:53<andythenorth>didn't work
11:53<@Alberth>nope, it's stuck at max CPU speed :p
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11:56<DorpsGek_II_>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] TrueBrain merged pull request #5: Add: notify IRC about pull-requests and issues
11:56-!-DorpsGek_II_ is "Irc bot based on irc3" on #dorpsgek #openttd.notice #openttd
11:56<DorpsGek_II_>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master:
11:56<DorpsGek_II_> - Add: notify IRC about pull-requests and issues (by TrueBrain)
11:56-!-DorpsGek_II_ is now known as DorpsGek_II
11:57<TrueBrain>thank you DorpsGek_II
11:57<TrueBrain>too bad it is 2 events, the merge and push
11:57<TrueBrain>but, it is working again :D
11:57<LordAro>mm, one or the other would be preferred
11:57<LordAro>not sure i'm a fan of the part/joining as well
11:57<TrueBrain>good thing it is open source with a CD attached! Go for it :D
11:58*andythenorth got bulldozer cargos generating
11:58<LordAro>typical OSS :p
11:58<TrueBrain>so .. lets lock this channel! NO MORE IN OR OUT!
11:58<andythenorth>2 days work to automate
11:58<TrueBrain>LordAro doesn't like part/joins, so that is it guys, sorry!
11:58<LordAro>you know what i mean :p
11:59<TrueBrain>it is an assumption you made not based on any facts
11:59<LordAro>well, fine
11:59<LordAro>the "needless" part/joining whenever it gets a message
11:59<TrueBrain>lucky my brain-melting-abilities worked, so I understood what you meant yes :)
11:59<TrueBrain>there is no "needless" part here
11:59<LordAro>it would be much better for it to just stay in the channel
11:59<TrueBrain>yes, DorpsGek_II left. Yes, DorpsGek_II joined. Just the former DorpsGek_II was not the latter
11:59<TrueBrain>do you still see it in this channel?
12:00<TrueBrain>why do people think I implemented this as idiotic as GitHub did? :P
12:00<TrueBrain>so silly :)
12:00<LordAro>oh, i see
12:00<TrueBrain>that they made a brainfart in their implementation, doesn't mean I am :P
12:00<LordAro>i just hadn't seen it do more than one message (at different times), i assumed it was doing a GH Thing
12:01<LordAro>i should stop assuming so much
12:01<TrueBrain>:D Please do :D
12:01<TrueBrain>questions are always welcome!
12:01<TrueBrain>"Does it leave/join on every commit?!" :P
12:01<TrueBrain>DorpsGek_II is liked to a CD. Every merge in DorpsGek-irc, causes a restart .. meaning he leaves the channel :)
12:01<TrueBrain>he only comes back when he has something to say again
12:01<TrueBrain>(as he doesn't work on a predefined list or something)
12:02<TrueBrain>well, if it is DorpsGek_II with host :D If the host is, it is mister staging joining .. who is only here to demonstrate his new powers
12:02<TrueBrain>(and otherwise lives in other channels)
12:03<frosch123>does "gek" imply any gender? and is there an analog term for the opposite?
12:03<TrueBrain>I could name staging mister with super powers differently, I guess :D
12:03<TrueBrain>no, "gek" is gender neutral
12:04<TrueBrain>although, due to historical reasons, a "dorpsgek" is 99% of the time male
12:04<TrueBrain>but that is just because that was the time-spirit :P
12:04<TrueBrain>(the same as jokers that were bouncing next to kings were more often than not males :P)
12:05<Eddi|zuHause><Alberth> collected enough stuff to crawl through in those 5 years, Eddi? :) <-- well, the original input data is kept for tax and customs purposes anyway
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>the problem was in the part that parses that data for further accounting tasks
12:08<TrueBrain>for windows we no longer use ICU, right? So we can close all those bugs, not?
12:09<@peter1138>The bugs also trigger on Linux.
12:09<TrueBrain>these tickets are specific on windows :P
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>it is my understanding that dutch mostly lost the distinction between male/female (language)gender over the last 500-ish years
12:10<TrueBrain>the main issue I have, getting the gender of things like ships, cars, etc right
12:10<TrueBrain>it is just an "it"
12:10<TrueBrain>put in many other languages I notice ships are often refered to as a "her"
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>english does that a lot
12:11<@peter1138>English's gendered ships is nothing to do with grammar, though.
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>the way i see it, ships in general are neutral, but if you refer to a specific ship (one that has a name), it's usually female
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>like in german it is "Das Schiff", but "Die Enterprise"
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>or "Das Boot" vs. "Die U96"
12:15<snail_UES_>ok, this is weird. I’m trying to compile Karn’s new patch for shunting and reversing
12:15<snail_UES_>if I compile it through GitHub, it throws an error
12:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #6842: Heap overflow leading to crash
12:15<snail_UES_>Documents/GitHub/OpenTTD-YPS/src/economy.cpp:702:20: error: expected
12:15<snail_UES_> expression
12:15<snail_UES_> c->cur_economy = {};
12:15<@peter1138>What does "compile it through GitHub" mean?
12:16<snail_UES_>I cloned it from the github website
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12:16<snail_UES_>and it generated the error I described above… seems in economy.cpp
12:16<@peter1138>That's a bug that was fixed.
12:17<snail_UES_>ah… then I just downloaded the files manually and it compiled fine
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12:44<snail_UES_>btw is michi_cc here?
12:45<snail_UES_>he did work on a patch to allow 90-degree curves for certain railtypes, and I’ve got a crash report that can help him...
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13:05<andythenorth>I wish to register a complaint
13:05<andythenorth>the palette does not have 8 nice yellows in a set
13:06<andythenorth>instead it has multiple smaller sets of not-quite-nice yellows
13:06<andythenorth>palette is not bulldozer-optimised
13:06<@peter1138>How long ago did we add 32bpp support?
13:07<@peter1138>Use your own palette ;)
13:07<andythenorth>you said something I can't process
13:08<@planetmaker>Well, the suggestion actually is not so bad, andythenorth:
13:08<@planetmaker>make your own palette: make the sprites in 32bpp. But use the colours from the 8bpp palette. And deviate where you feel the need (e.g. for your yellows)
13:09<@planetmaker>and I'll bet there's at most 2 people who'll notice ;)
13:12<andythenorth>I could just remap the palette file :P
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13:12<andythenorth>there are 16 yellows, just not in blocks of 8 :P
13:13<andythenorth>we decided that engineering supply sprites should be random trucks / tractors / tarpaulins etc?
13:13<andythenorth>no cargo subtype to choose explicitly?
13:14<@peter1138>Don't use cargo subtypes.
13:14<andythenorth>I use them for capacity refits in ships
13:14<@planetmaker>why not?
13:14<andythenorth>which is valid
13:15<andythenorth>hmm, we had some idea about vehicle groups
13:15<andythenorth>multiple IDs, nested buy menu entry
13:16<@peter1138>planetmaker, UI is not nice, and they're a spanner in the works for autoreplace.
13:17<@peter1138>Why do you want capacity refits? Isn't a bigger capacity going to be a bigger ship? We do have 65k IDs available.
13:17<@planetmaker>hm, the latter is an argument... couldn't autoreplace just ignore it?
13:17<@peter1138>planetmaker, ignoring it causes issues.
13:17<andythenorth>I choose "Engineering Supplies (Traction Engines)"
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13:17<andythenorth>then what happens when it's Tractors?
13:17<andythenorth>or Steam Shovels and Bulldozers
13:17<andythenorth>delete game
13:18<@peter1138>andythenorth, implement coupling of 'road' vehicles :p
13:18<andythenorth>is that wise? o_O
13:18<andythenorth>there is an ancient spec somewhere
13:19<andythenorth>what about road vehicles in trains?
13:20<@peter1138>Not wise.
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13:24<Eddi|zuHause>man, i feel like i'm in a downwards spiral... i was playing cities skylines, added the metro mod, and now i'm seriously considering to use "move it" to force the metro into places...
13:26<andythenorth>have you written your own mod yet?
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>i was considering modding out the "commercials" from the radio stations
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13:35<snail_UES_>andythenorth: cargo subtypes are there to stay… newGRF’s have to use them so that they can support legacy industries
13:41<@peter1138>legacy industries?
13:48<snail_UES_>such as ECS or the original ones
13:48<snail_UES_>the original TTD industries have got “goods” that could be whatever
13:49<snail_UES_>from food products to cars… so a vehicle newGRF has to deal with it using subtypes (unless it loads them in boxcars only
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, just generic boxes?
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but i wouldn't call that "essiential to support"
13:52<andythenorth>I didn't know we'd proposed removing them :P
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>if anyone would propose removing them, it would be you :p
13:52<andythenorth>they are a repetitive source of 'feature requests that have to be rejected'
13:53<@peter1138>I don't understand, industries don't have anything to do with cargo subtypes.
13:54<@peter1138>*cargos* don't have anything to do with cargo subtypes, it's a vehicle property.
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>why is it that i have never ever the right type of screwdriver available?
13:56<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: there is probably an XKCD for that
13:57<andythenorth>'available', or 'to hand'?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>what's the difference between those two?
13:58<andythenorth>one involves looking in places
13:59<andythenorth>one is within reach
13:59<andythenorth>'available' may include phoning a friend :P
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>so, no :p
14:01<andythenorth>is it torx?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>no :p
14:01<andythenorth>breaks all known rules
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>just all my screwdrivers seem to be the wrong size
14:01<snail_UES_>peter1138: cargo subtypes are useful for two purposes… they allow for more variety when transporting generic-labeled cargoes (such as “goods”, “food”, “chemical products”)
14:02<snail_UES_>and they’re useful for engine variants such as regearing or specific liveries
14:02<snail_UES_>the latter need could also be met with “purchase list variants”, but we (still) don’t have them
14:02<andythenorth>I got a thing like this
14:03<andythenorth>the bits are horrible and get chewed up easily
14:03<andythenorth>OTOH they chew the screws less
14:04<andythenorth>and this for disassembling stuff
14:04<andythenorth>I would say 'fixing' but 'disassembling' is more accurate :P
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>i have a screwdriver that can hold bits, but a) where do i find bits? and b) it holds the bits magnetically, which is not ideal if handling computers
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14:17<@peter1138>snail_UES_, you can have that variety without subtypes. Randomisation, or simply different engine IDs.
14:17<snail_UES_>the former doesn’t allow me to choose, I might need to buy countless engines before finding the livery I wanted
14:17<snail_UES_>the latter clutters the purchase list...
14:18<@peter1138>You can always hide :-)
14:19<@peter1138>I think people are still building sets with the old engine type limits in mind.
14:19<snail_UES_>if we had purchase list variants or something like that, now that would be useful
14:20<@peter1138>Yeah, still need to write it.
14:20<snail_UES_>I’ll give you that my set was initially designed around the 116-ID limit
14:21<snail_UES_>but having the purchase list filled with very similar engines, with basically the same name, is not a great result IMO…
14:21<snail_UES_>I’d like to be able to click once on the “engine type”, then click once more to choose the variant
14:21<snail_UES_>or something like that
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14:27<madmax28>I noticed my flow chart links never go beyond saturated
14:27<madmax28>I'm trying to figure out if this might be a bug..
14:27<madmax28>Where do I find the bits of the code that update those?
14:29<madmax28>nvm i think i found it :)
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14:49<nielsm> <- well there's some partial, untested changes
14:50<nielsm>I kind of hope someone else can take this and run with it because I'm not feeling much for hacking on nml
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16:11<andythenorth>nielsm: I can fork and make a test grf tomorrow
16:11<andythenorth>remind me :)
16:23<nielsm>andythenorth: I don't know if it actually works :)
16:25<andythenorth>we'll find out :D
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16:44<+michi_cc>snail_UES_: I've seen your PM, just been busy with other things so far.
16:44<snail_UES_>michi_cc: thanks :)
16:46<+michi_cc>Had a quick look just now, and you might try the updated gist at
16:46<snail_UES_>thank you! will do
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16:46<+michi_cc>Unfortunately, it might not work as I'm lacking some of the essential NewGRFs of your crash save (fr set and the newstations version used).
16:49<snail_UES_>ok, I’ll try a more basic game next time and send you the newgrfs I use
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17:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #6879: Fix: Some pixels in ship autoreplace icon (sprite 106) were transparent.
17:53<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> I think people are still building sets with the old engine type limits in mind. <-- well, last time i fired up CETS i missed a filter feature in the purchase list...
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18:01<@peter1138>Last time I fired the issue tracker I missed a filter feature in the purchase list suggestion
18:01<@peter1138>But maybe it isn't an issue. I dunno.
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20:00<Eddi|zuHause>that would require a github account
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 06 00:00:54 2018