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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-08-26

---Logopened Sun Aug 26 00:00:22 2018
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04:05<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, well, no, I'd bound it as a push-to-talk key. No indication that it would be stealing the keypress.
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05:01<andythenorth>moin
05:14<andythenorth>so more NARS Horse puzzles
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05:15<andythenorth>irl US trains now have lower max speed than in 1950s/60s
05:15<andythenorth>this is inconvient for game progression :p
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05:53<@peter1138>Well, I sacked off bike riding due to the rain.
05:53<@peter1138>Wimpy cyclist :S
06:06<andythenorth_>rain?
06:06<andythenorth_>it is 28 degrees and solid blue sky here :p
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06:12<Samu>"excessive cpu usage in valuator function" - the bane of most AIs
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06:17<Samu>can't you change the way evaluators work?
06:17<Samu>in openttd itself
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06:24<Samu>instead of killing the script, can't you suspend
06:24<Samu>and let it continue on the next ... uh... tick?
06:29<Samu>frosch123: says you are the responsible for the cpu evaluator
06:29<Samu>can't you improve it?
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07:01<LordAro>peter1138: wimp
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07:07<@planetmaker>weakly interacting massive particle... hm :P
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07:09<Wolf01>o/
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07:27<andythenorth>cabbages
07:29<Samu>it appears all the code that use Valuate could be coded without using the Valuate functions
07:29<Samu>Isn't it?
07:30<Samu>so why is it available for us?
07:30<Samu>or am I wrong?
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10:06<andythenorth>US railroads are very inconsiderate for game design
10:06<andythenorth>iconic engines with lifespan of only 15 years
10:06<andythenorth>bad for progression :)
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11:52<andythenorth>o/
11:53<LordAro>is it?
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>bright stars burn out faster
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, US rail history is easy: pioneer age, golden age, decline age and we-have-plans-for-hispeed-rail-but-they're-not-going-anywhere age
11:55<andythenorth>so 4 generations :p
11:56<andythenorth>how long is golden age? :p
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, 1880-1940?
11:57<Wolf01>I'd say until privatization
12:00<andythenorth>apart from bankruptcy periods, US railroads are always private :)
12:00<andythenorth>except Amtrak
12:00<Wolf01>Oh, US, I read UK :P
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>foundation of Amtrak is already way into the decline age
12:01<Wolf01>WTF, it's cold, I wanted cold, but not so cold :S 19°C
12:02<LordAro>cold here too
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>typical human reaction "it's hot, i want cold" -> "it's cold, get the hot back"
12:04<andythenorth>i am happy at 28deg with light breeze tbh
12:05<andythenorth>which is fortunate, as that is the current weather
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's closer to 19°C than 28°C here, but i don't have exact numbers
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12:17<Wolf01>25-28°C was the ideal temperature, it was ~37°C 2 days ago
12:17<Wolf01>BTW, out for dinner :P
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause>one would assume room temperature (21°C) was the ideal temperature
12:25<Samu>@calc UINT_32
12:25<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: There's really no reason why you should have underscores or brackets in your mathematical expression. Please remove them.
12:25<Samu>@calc MAX_INT
12:25<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: There's really no reason why you should have underscores or brackets in your mathematical expression. Please remove them.
12:25<Samu>:(
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12:27<Samu>have to change everything into square distances
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12:32<andythenorth>hmm
12:33<@planetmaker>@calc 2**31
12:33<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2147483648
12:34<andythenorth>amtrak pax trains are ridiculously slow :p
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: how do you not know this number by heart?
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12:44<@planetmaker>it's sufficient to know it till... 4096 ;)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>in what world? :p
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>2147483647 is even a mersenne prime
12:51<@planetmaker>that's too rational ;)
12:52<@planetmaker>for odd numbers I prefer the irrational ;)
12:55<Samu>can I do this? while (AIController.Sleep(1)) {
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>spoiler alert: odd numbers are never irrational :ü
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>:p
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12:55<Samu>what does AIController.Sleep(1) returns?
12:56<Samu> /* static */ void ScriptController::Sleep(int ticks)
12:56<Samu>void is always a true?
12:57<LordAro>void is nothing
12:57<LordAro>it has no return value
12:57<Samu>what will happen in this? while (AIController.Sleep(1))
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12:57<LordAro>i'd be very surprised if it worked at all
12:58<Samu>it works on the GSController side
12:58<LordAro>at the very least i'd expect "null" to be falsey
12:59<Samu>seems to be working on AIController too
12:59<Samu>the stuff inside while is executed
12:59<LordAro>weird
13:01<Samu>yeah, it fast forwards faster too
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13:09<Samu>I found a bug
13:10<Samu>the maximum distance of engines that don't have a max range specified should not be 0
13:10<Samu> engine_list.Valuate(AIEngine.GetMaximumOrderDistance);
13:10<Samu>engine_list.KeepAboveValue(dist);
13:10<Samu>aircraft in this case
13:11<Samu>i dunno how to report a bug anymore, so plz someone fix it
13:12<Samu>it's script_vehicle.cpp
13:12<Samu>line 446
13:15<Samu>or maybe not
13:15<Samu>script_engine.cpp line 254
13:16<Samu>yeah, that's the one
13:16<Samu>return ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange() * ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange();
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13:21<andythenorth_>oof
13:21<andythenorth_>NARS Horse roster is going to be huge :p
13:21<andythenorth_>so much drawing I will have to do
13:23<Samu>andythenorth_: can you report my bug? :(
13:23<andythenorth_>?
13:24<Samu>i just mentioned it
13:25<andythenorth_>OTOH
13:26<andythenorth_>not sure NARS Horse has 4/8 wagons
13:26<andythenorth_>US tends to long wagons, so that cuts down drawing
13:26<@peter1138>Why would andythenorth_ report a bug he hasn't seen because he only just joined the channel?
13:27<andythenorth_>because mystery reasons?
13:28<Samu>oh, sorry, i saw him start talking
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13:33<andythenorth_>uh oh
13:33<Wormnest>I would say not a bug but working as intended
13:33<andythenorth_>it’s TB
13:34<Samu>intended bugs :(
13:35<Wormnest>It´s not a bug
13:35<Samu>but why not? I can't use the KeepAbove correctly :(
13:35<Samu>KeepAboveValue
13:35<Samu>because it got a 0
13:36<Wormnest>So what should it answer, there is no maximum distance so 0 seems the best answer
13:36<Samu>MapSize
13:36<Samu>best result
13:37<Samu>it's a DistanceSquare
13:39<Wormnest>But they can fly a lot farther than that in theory since they don´t have a max distance
13:40<Samu>:(
13:40<Wormnest>Just filter out the ones without a max distance
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13:41<Wormnest>or make a valuator function that checks for 0 and replaces that with a random very large number
13:42<@peter1138>^ this
13:42<Samu>I'm testing this
13:42<Samu>return ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange() * ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange() == 0 ? UINT16_MAX : ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange() * ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange();
13:43<Samu>in openttd code
13:44<Wormnest>Why not keep it simple and add a small function to your ai
13:44<LordAro>Samu: use a variable so you don't have to repeat Engine::Get every time
13:45<Samu>because the problem is not there :(
13:45<LordAro>or GetRange even
13:45<Samu>I tried, but it complained about a default being there
13:46<Samu>it's inside a switch
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13:46<LordAro>"it complained about a default being there"
13:46<LordAro>oh
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13:46<LordAro>yeah, if you declare a variable inside a case statement you need to wrap the whole case inside {}
13:47<LordAro>e.g. case foo: { int i = ...; }
13:47<Samu>ah
13:47<Samu>ok, will do
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13:48<@peter1138>andythenorth_, have you considered not leaving and rejoining every few minutes?
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13:50<@peter1138>I'll take that as a no.
13:50<LordAro>lol
13:52<Samu> uint16 range = ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange() * ::Engine::Get(engine_id)->GetRange(); return range == 0 ? UINT16_MAX : range;
13:53<Samu>in 2 lines
13:53<LordAro>much better, right? :)
13:54<LordAro>i'd probably add another variable
13:54<Samu>yes, i didn't know about the brackets
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13:55<Samu>Sampson U52 maximum distance is 65536
13:55<Samu>looks like uin16 is too short
13:55<Samu>gonna try uint_32
13:56<Samu>or whatever the max squirrel accepts, which I dunno
14:00<Samu>@calc 4096*4096
14:00<@DorpsGek>Samu: 16777216
14:00<Samu>Sampson U52 maximum distance is -1 :(
14:00<Samu>bah i fail
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14:03<Samu>what is the highest number that squirrel likes?
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14:06<@peter1138>Tried INT32_MAX?
14:07<Samu>Sampson U52 maximum distance is 2147483647
14:07<Samu>yes, tried that
14:07<Samu>just now
14:07<Samu>it works
14:11<Samu>return range == 0 ? INT32_MAX : range;
14:12<Samu>will it be fixed?
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14:13<Samu>or is it "not a bug" :(
14:14<Samu>having to work around the problem in the AI side is boring :(
14:14<LordAro>what's the problem?
14:14<Samu>coding to evade a bug
14:18<LordAro>The maximum distance between two orders for this vehicle or 0 if the distance is unlimited."
14:18<LordAro>i'd definitely say not a bug, i'm afraid
14:18<LordAro>just make your own function that wraps it
14:24<Samu>not sure how to do it
14:24<Samu>im trying something, but it's not working
14:28<Samu>ah, i think i did it
14:33<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjfxbqdcs
14:33<Samu>ugly
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14:34<Samu>lines 26-33 shouldn't exist if openttd core was fixed :(
14:34<Samu>code*
14:34<LordAro>i was thinking more of a function that wraps AIEngine.GetMaximumOrderDistance
14:35<Samu>forgot the keepabovevalue in there
14:36<LordAro>i.e. function foo(...) { local bar = GetMaximum...(); return bar == 0 ? INT_MAX : bar; }
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14:44<@peter1138>LordAro, programmer vs ... whatever samu is doing.
14:44<LordAro>we've all flailed at some point
14:45<Samu>:)
14:45<Samu>you mean a custom-made valuator function
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14:46<Samu>gonna try
14:47<Samu>yeah this isn't working
14:48<Samu>parameter 1 has an invalid type 'function'; expected 'integer'
14:48<LordAro>you're probably doing something wrong :p
14:55<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/po9qykj5r
14:55<Samu>gonna test
14:55<Samu>fails already damn it
14:55<LordAro>does function::WriteAI::GetMaximumOrderDistance look right to you?
14:56<LordAro>do please try to think about what you're doing before asking
14:56<LordAro>it saves everyone time
14:57<Samu>oh, i see
14:57<LordAro>(also, actually run it and read the error message)
14:58<Samu>function WrightAI::GetMaximumOrderDistance(engineId) {
14:58<Samu>without ::
14:58<LordAro>better :)
14:58<Samu>works now, thx
14:59<Samu>the error was about some 'IDENTIFIER' thing
15:00<LordAro>mm, those can be a bit obscure sometimes, but they're generally syntax related
15:06<Samu>https://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIEngine.html#a0d3c115704bfc200432f4908df8b6ff "or 0 if the distance is unlimited"... boooo
15:06<Samu>oh well
15:06<Samu>i guess it's not gonna be fixed
15:07<LordAro>literally already quoted and said that :p
15:19<@peter1138>-ENOBUG
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15:28<Samu>why's the ai now building helicopters for large airports... :( bah i failed somewhere
15:34<Samu>fixed :)
15:34<Eddi|zuHause><LordAro> we've all flailed at some point <-- but it takes a real master to continue flailing for years
15:48<Wolf01>Is there a steam service somewhere which tells you what to play?
15:50<LordAro>i think there is something that will select a random game from your library
15:50<LordAro>i've no idea where
15:55<@peter1138>heh
15:55<Wolf01>Nice, there are some games with good discount, I could buy even those to add more to the indecision roulette
16:03<@peter1138>Indeed
16:03<@peter1138>And pick up some more Humble Bundles...
16:03<Samu>now that I'm working with DistanceSquare instead of DistanceManhattan... I dunno what to do about min_air_distance and max_air_distace :(
16:03<Wolf01>Nah, I have enough of the horror titles :P
16:04<Wolf01>I'll pass this bundle
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16:49<Samu>how do I get squareroot in squirrel?
16:55<@peter1138>Do you need it?
16:55<@peter1138>Or can you just compare against a square number?
16:59<Samu>i want to calculate the optimal number of aircraft for a route of 'squared distance'
16:59<LordAro>instead of doing x < sqrt(y), it's often easier to do x * x < y
17:00<Samu>i have the location of both airports, I have the squared distance, now I need to know how many aircraft this route needs
17:01<Samu>with distance manhattan it was easier
17:03<Samu>i think i found a way, brb
17:04<Samu>actually, no :(
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17:16<andythenorth>peter1138 I need a bouncer :(
17:16<andythenorth>I can’t run one on my phone probs
17:17<andythenorth>unrelated, since when are articulated vehicles reversible? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68616&start=240#p1212198
17:18<LordAro>i hear some ottdcoop people run a bouncer
17:18<andythenorth>I googld it
17:18<andythenorth>didn’t find a clear answer
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17:21<andythenorth>3 minutes is not long for network timeout :x
17:23<Samu>think i'm gonna use 2 distances... :(
17:24<Samu>2 distance types for every route :(
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19:45<Samu>This parameter is a two-byte word, specified in little-endian byte order
19:45<Samu>what does it mean?
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 27 00:00:23 2018