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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-09-02

---Logopened Sun Sep 02 00:00:32 2018
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04:52<@Alberth>hi hi
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05:31<Samu_>what if the pathfinder actually used real costs
05:33<@Alberth>number of electrons used for displaying the train or so?
05:34<Samu_>the money type of cost
05:34<Samu_>not whatever internal cost it uses now
05:36<@Alberth>distance is time, time is money, so 1 railtrack has fixed cost
05:36<@Alberth>therefore it makes no difference whether you count railtrack pieces or number of fixed cost to apply
05:38<Samu_>You are not allowed to change parameters of a running pathfinder.
05:38<Samu_>guess it's not possible
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05:40<Samu_>oh i see
05:41<Samu_>road re-use costs would maybe cause weird path choices
05:41<Samu_>cost would be always 0
05:47<Samu_>oh, bridges
05:47<Samu_>cost of a bridge
05:47<Samu_>how would it decide
05:47<Samu_>the bridge type
05:47<Samu_>to get the cost off
05:49<Samu_>i think i'm editing pathfinder.road.4
05:49<Samu_>wanna experiment with money costs
05:51<Samu_>oh, Alberth one thing
05:51<Samu_>i got some semi-repetitive classes
05:52<Samu_>wait, i'm copy pastying
05:57<Samu_>all cases where I needed classes
05:58<Samu_>there' some that are quite similar, just wondering if this could be made in another manner
06:01<Samu_>anyway, it works great the way it is
06:01<Samu_>just wondering if it's sub-optimal code
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06:09<Samu_>it works, that's all that matters
06:11<Samu_>oh, before I go head on into the pathfinder code
06:12<Samu_>there's something before that that needs fixing
06:12<Samu_>bridges :(
06:12<Samu_>the pathfinder returns a bunch of tiles
06:12<Samu_>the building that happens always fails to detect an existing bridge
06:13<Samu_>because of road auto-complete
06:14<Samu_>tiles 1 -> 2 -> 3 where 3 is an existing bridge
06:14<Samu_>the builder starts from 1 -> 2, builds a road from middle of tile 1 to middle of tile 2
06:14<Samu_>but when building from middle of tile 2 to middle of tile 3
06:15<Samu_>it connects the bridge with an extra road piece
06:15<Samu_>that's what is making it fail to detect a bridge after
06:15<Samu_>it checks if it's connected
06:15<Samu_>and since it is, it doesn't even bother checking the bridge
06:16<Samu_>what can I do so that I can actually keep track of bridges
06:18<Samu_>I failed my explanation
06:19<Samu_>when building 1 -> 2 it actually connects everything from 1 to 3
06:19<Samu_>it doesn't build up to the middle of tile 2
06:20<Samu_>more precisely, from the middle of tile 1 to the edge of tile 2, which then it means tiles 2 and 3 are connected
06:21<@Alberth>build from edge to edge
06:22<@Alberth>or build 4 half-tiles at a tile
06:22<@Alberth>(ie build code thinks in road units of 1/2 a tile
06:23<Samu_>AIRoad.BuildRoad says it connects from middle of tile start to middle of tile end, and that is not entirely true
06:26<Samu_>in this situation, with a bridge ahead, it connected from middle of start tile to edge of tile end :(
06:26<Samu_>bug or just mimicing human behaviour?
06:31<Samu_>I wish i could make a gif
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06:36<Samu_>now with a picture
06:36<Samu_>easier to spot the problem
06:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] YodasWs opened issue #6888: Add layer(s) showing station coverage
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06:51<@Alberth>hmm, tricky puzzle
06:52<@Alberth>technically it's incorrect wrt to its description I agree, but not sure other options exist there
06:52<@Alberth>ie you can't build a half tile road under the bridge head
06:54<@Alberth>not to mention it will likely break all AIs if you change it
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07:11<Samu_>it would build the missing half tile
07:11<Samu_>or at least I think it would
07:12<Samu_>if it's mimicing human behaviour again
07:37<Samu_>lines 886 and 887 of roac_cmd.cpp
07:38<Samu_>seems to be where it's causing the issue
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07:52<Samu_>maybe not
07:52<Samu_>im still investigating
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08:06<hrnek>there's a lot of people here
08:07<hrnek>I'm translating the wiki and there's the {{Railway_toolbar_overview}}
08:07<hrnek>in railways
08:08<hrnek>it's a nice table describing what each part does, but it stays in english
08:08<hrnek>how can I get to it?
08:08<Wolf01>Iirc you need to make a sub-template in your language, it will automatically get it
08:09<hrnek>sorry, I've never done templates from scratch
08:12<Wolf01>I made some templates from scratch, it's not difficult, but translating one... I did it once, years ago
08:17<hrnek>looking for the source of the template but I can't find it
08:17<hrnek>the link helps, though, it's a nice one
08:18<hrnek>I would probably make a copy of the original one and redo whatever needs to be redone
08:19<Wolf01>Call it Railway_toolbar_overview/YourLanguage, so it keeps it tidy, or try to look if it has been done in other languages
08:21<hrnek>Some do..
08:21<hrnek>I believe it's like the main menu on the right side
08:21<hrnek>the same sort of thing
08:21<Wolf01>Just copy what they did, the best approach in wikimedia :P
08:22<hrnek>But I still don't know how to get to the source to copy/edit. They all have it hidden in the {{ X }}
08:23<Wolf01>The links at the bottom of the edit page
08:26<Wolf01>So, it just seem you have to create the same template for your language
08:27<hrnek>Ohhhhh, that's how you get to it! Nice!
08:27<Samu_>this is strange, i can't spot the issue
08:29<Samu_>i can't reproduce the issue :( why
08:34<Samu_>why the heck i can't reproduce the issue now
08:34<hrnek>and I make a new template by going to an address that doesn't exist and edit the page?
08:35<Samu_>Alberth: sorry, my report can't be reproduced
08:35<Samu_>it's already doing what it should do
08:35<Samu_>damn, and I thought there was a bug in openttd
08:36<Samu_>it actually does "what it should do" when i tried to reproduce it :(
08:36<Samu_>bah, i fail
08:36<Samu_>sorry for the false alarm
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09:17<Samu_>okay, the issue is the builder itself
09:19<Samu_>i failed to interpret what it was doing
09:21<Samu_>line 127 never triggers
09:25<Samu_>instead it triggers line 57, even on a bridge tile
09:27<Samu_>actually no, not even that
09:27<Samu_>triggers line 65
09:27<Samu_>my bad
09:39<Samu_>im confused as hell about this builder
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09:48<@Alberth>less confused now :)
09:48<Samu_>i found the culprit!
09:49<Samu_>line 82
09:49<Samu_>that && should have been ||
09:49<Samu_>now it works
09:50<Samu_>damn it, I spent so much time figuring out why it wasn't triggering the bridge message
09:51<Samu_>it finally triggered!
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10:51<Samu_>Build a bridge from one tile to the other. As an extra for road, this functions builds two half-pieces of road on each end of the bridge, making it easier for you to connect it to your network.
10:51<Samu_>why's that? it only complicates
10:53<Samu_>it also does the same for tunnels
10:53<Wolf01>It does the same for depots and roadstops
10:53<Samu_>the path builder is smarter enough to know that
10:55<Samu_>Builds a road depot.
10:55<Samu_>nop, doesn't say anything else
10:55<Wolf01>Did you try to build a depot facing a road?
10:56<Samu_>as an AI? yes, but...
10:56<Samu_>I think i have to manually connect to the road
10:56<Samu_>must test
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11:03<Samu_>nop, it doesn't connect automatically
11:03<Wolf01>Strange, the game should do it
11:03<Wolf01>Like when you build it by hand
11:04<Samu_>for the AIs it's better not to
11:04<Samu_>at least in my perspective
11:04<Samu_>gives me a better control of the things happening
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11:10<Samu_>for tunnels and bridges, it doesn't even need a road in front to build the 2 pieces, it just builds it no matter what, that's kinda gay
11:12<Samu_>the pathbuilder is apparently already taking care of these
11:13<Samu_>demolishes them if it needs to build 2 bridges in a row
11:13<Samu_>or tunnel
11:14<Samu_>doesn't seem to make life easier
11:14<Samu_>only complicated
11:14<Wolf01>That might be wrong, yes
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11:28<Samu_>yep, no issues for the pathbuilder, but it's just an awkward waste of money
11:29<Samu_>tested just now
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13:30<nielsm>hm were anyone here using linux for daily desktop OS? any recommendation for distro? (or, arguments against ubuntu)
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13:32<LordAro>ubuntu is fine
13:33<LordAro>basically use whatever you're comfortable with
13:34<@peter1138>Debian, of course.
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13:48<debdog>or anyting without systemd :P
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13:49<@peter1138>systemd is fine
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13:58<andythenorth>real internet :P
13:58<SpComb>you mean working IPv6?
13:59<SpComb>I should finally get around to deploying to my shell, but I can't decide between stateless RA and DHCPv6
14:01<LordAro>doesn't look like working ipv6, from the rdns :p
14:01<LordAro>also because it's virgin media
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14:12<Samu_>something weird with pathfinder, does it not count drivethrough stations as roads or something?
14:12<andythenorth>but where is deliveroo? :|
14:13*andythenorth is hungry
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14:17<andythenorth>laptop screen is unfeasibly wide
14:17<andythenorth>2 weeks using 4 inch phone
14:17<andythenorth>my eyes can't stretch this big :P
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14:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6885: Feature: [NewGRF] Increase size of persistent storage to 256.
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15:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #6886: Fix: Variable 0x85 had no bounds checks.
15:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 pushed 1 commits to master:
15:15<DorpsGek_II> - Fix: Variable 0x85 had no bounds checks. (by frosch123)
15:22<frosch123>hmm, dg2 does not report about approval
15:23<Samu_>vehicles in the way are annoying
15:23<Samu_>especially when I am trying to remove a station
15:25<nielsm>my best suggestion is that you try to restructure your code into assembling a list of actions to be performed, so it can retry actions later if they fail once
15:27<nielsm>for instance, an entry in that list could contain fields like: actual action to perform, number of times attempted, excepted cost, deadline for when it must be done by, reference to internal goal the action is part of (i.e. route build)
15:28<nielsm>the internal goal thing could be used for backing out of a failed build attempt and develop an alternate plan
15:28<nielsm>and more
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15:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #6885: Feature: [NewGRF] Increase size of persistent storage to 256.
15:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc pushed 1 commits to master:
15:31<DorpsGek_II> - Feature: [NewGRF] Increase size of persistent storage to 256. (by michicc)
15:38<Samu_>oh, fixes!
15:40<Samu_>nielsm: that is a lot of stuff
15:41<Samu_>i'm gonna do what I've seen everywhere else in the code, try for 500 times to remove the station. If it still fails, well.... leave it
15:42<Samu_>guess it's not the best solution
15:42<Samu_>or do the way i do for airports
15:43<Samu_>every loop look for empty stations and remove them
15:45<Samu_>the route manager dude however might break, i still don't quite understand how LuDi is keeping everything tracked down
15:50<andythenorth>10 PRs open
15:50<andythenorth>not bad
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15:51<frosch123>still, noone wants to review stuff
15:51<andythenorth>there's a fear factor to reviewing eh
15:51<@peter1138>I guess OpenTTD is dead then.
15:51<andythenorth>nobody wants to get yelled at
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17:51<Samu_>how do i remove an item from an array
17:57<Samu_>inside a for cycle in the same array, not possible?
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17:58<Samu_>halp! :) i'm new to arrays
17:58<Samu_>for(local i = 0; i < routeManager.m_townRouteArray.len(); ++i) {
17:59<Samu_>i do some checking and I find a m_townRouteArray[i] that is of no use, I wanna remove it, while inside the for cycle, is that possible? or is it gonna ruin something?
18:10<mloc>what type is routeManager.m_townRouteArray?
18:11<mloc>fair warning I'm not in any way knowledgeable about the OpenTTD codebase
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18:17<Samu_>it's squirrel
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18:18<Samu_>basically, I wanna remove the [i]
18:18<Samu_>from the m_townRouteArray list
18:18<Samu_>remove an index
18:19<Samu_>but not break it for the for cycle :(
18:20<Samu_>gonna try it, lol
18:21<Samu_>what could possibly go wrong!
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19:40<Samu_>i dont understand arrays
19:45<Samu_>how do i remove the slot itself!
19:45<Samu_>not the value it was there :(
19:47<Samu_>i dont understand the difference between tables and arrays
19:48<Samu_>array.remove(idx) removes the value at the position ‘idx’ in the array
19:48<Samu_>what exactly is removed
19:48<Samu_>what about the idx? is it removed?
20:02<@peter1138>Why don't you test it if you don't understand?
20:17<Samu_>im trying to test it right now
20:20<Samu_>i don't really understand what's happening under the hood in an array
20:21<Samu_>it's still keeping track of the correct number of m_townRouteArray
20:21<Samu_>just not on the current for cycle
20:21<Samu_>but on the next
20:22<Samu_>I could probably say that "it werks"
20:22<Samu_>does what I want it to do
20:23<Samu_>remove dead routes from the array
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20:34<Samu_>ok enough coding for today, I'm off to bed
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23:37-!-haudrauf is "Haudrauf" on #openttd #frickelplatz @#ffod @#ffnord @#ffki @#ffhl @#ffhh @#fffl #cryptoparty @#ccchh
---Logclosed Mon Sep 03 00:00:33 2018