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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-09-04

---Logopened Tue Sep 04 00:00:22 2018
---Daychanged Tue Sep 04 2018
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05:11<Groope>Hey, does automatic signal placement works in Chris Sawyer's locomotion or just in OPEN TTD ?
05:18<@peter1138>Does it it work in Microsoft Train Simulator?
05:20<@peter1138>Locomotion is a commercial game from 2004. It's not related to OpenTTD.
05:23<Groope>okey, but there is any way to put signals automatically ? or I have to install them one by one ?
05:30<@peter1138>In Locomotion? No idea, haven't played it for over a decade.
05:30<@peter1138>IIRC Locomotion's signals are too basic to be able to do much useful with.
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06:07<Samu>andythenorth: hey, what is the name of that roadhaul newgrfs that was used to test notroadtypes? i wanna try the equivalent version for 1.8.0, do youknow the name?
06:08<Samu>wanna test the engines
06:09<Samu>btw, did you fix the articulated vehicles issue?
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06:12<andythenorth>road hog?
06:12<Samu>yes i think
06:14<Samu>gonna test the articulated part precisely with the ai
06:14<Samu>see what it choses
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06:42<Samu>you don't have any articulated mail truck that is faster than the non articulated counterpart. The way I have the AI set up, it would always look for the fastest engine
06:43<Samu>which means, no articulated chosen, hmm i gotta make a few changes
06:45<Samu>oh, i see a window of opportunity between 1968 and 1971
06:46<Samu>before goldmire courier truck is available, quickset box truck is the fastest mail truck and is articulated
06:46<Samu>let's test
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08:10<Samu>it is done, AI is now refit and articulated viable!
08:10<Samu>for road vehicles
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09:20<Samu>darn, lost helicopters are annoying
09:20<Samu>how do they end trying to go to an hangar of an airport that does not exist anymore
09:20<Samu>a* hangar
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09:58<Samu>okay, i found the problem
09:59<Samu>this does not include orders of the kind "nearest hangar"
09:59<Samu>"service at nearest hangar"
09:59<Samu>it fails to detect
10:00<Samu>that a vehicle is heading to the hangar
10:00<Samu>bug or intended?
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10:21<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: so, are you volunteering to host a party for the next commit, then? :p
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>(also, didn't we already have an r25k party, how can we then celebrate 23k now?)
10:23<nielsm>the 23k is linear count from now until beginning of the master branch, while 25k is number of svn revisions across all branches
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10:30<Samu>what is ResolveOrderPosition doing
10:31<Samu>I am trying to skip orders to the next
10:32<Samu>AIOrder.SkipToOrder(i, AIOrder.ResolveOrderPosition(AIOrder_ORDER_CURRENT) == 0 ? 1 : 0);
10:32<Samu>orderlist only contains 2 orders
10:32<Samu>is this gonna do what I want?
10:34<Samu>AIOrder.SkipToOrder(i, AIOrder.ResolveOrderPosition(AIOrder.ORDER_CURRENT) == 0 ? 1 : 0);
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10:37<Tweeterman>I can't find a Japanese Track set for the Total Bridge Renewal Japan GRF. Any help?
10:38<Samu>not familiar with that newgrf
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10:45<Samu>I am the worst coder in the world
10:46<Samu>AIOrder.SkipToOrder(i, AIOrder.ResolveOrderPosition(i, AIOrder.ORDER_CURRENT) == 0 ? 1 : 0);
10:46<Samu>3rd fix on the same line
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12:34<andythenorth>@seen alberth
12:34<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: alberth was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 2 hours, 46 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Alberth> less confused now :)
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13:02<flitz>Hi. I just wanted to revive an old openttd project of mine. I switched the trunk URL I used to use to the new github one and wanted to update the +openttd master branch on it. But during the merge my old version of the game's files and the current master have merge conflicts in almost 400 +files. So it seems like a nightmare to merge the 2 versions.
13:05<nielsm>not sure if this is the best way, but assuming your old work is based on the pre-github move tree, it might be best to first rebase your work onto the equivalent revision of your old base in the new repository
13:06<nielsm>and then merge in the changes from then until current head
13:07<nielsm>i.e. start out with what is hopefully a clean rebase and then do the "dirty" merge after that
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, don't switch to github "head", but to github "old revision that you had back then"
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>from there, you can also try to make smaller steps to upgrade to non-conflicting revisions
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>as always with jobs that seem overwhelmingly complex and hard, separate them into easier smaller steps
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13:24<LordAro>flitz: rebase --onto is useful here
13:28<flitz>I was also already thinking about just dropping my old git history and applying the patch in small chunks onto the new tree. that would give me the opportunity to review it. but its still a lot of work with about ~10k lines of code in the patch
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>really, i would start patching the old revision, as then you can commit it to git and have an easy fallback if you make mistakes updating
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>then maybe try bisecting the update so you identify which revisions conflict
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>if you know the revision that conflicts, you often get an idea from there how to resolve the conflict
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13:52<andythenorth>so should I get Dwarf Fortress?
13:52<Wolf01>Yes, definitely
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14:00<frosch123>only if you can survive blinking text
14:00<frosch123>i couldn't
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14:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RailwAI opened issue #6890: Crash: disconnecting road vehicle
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14:05<LordAro>that's a new one
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14:05<frosch123>or a old one
14:06<LordAro>the message is weird
14:06<frosch123>hmm, it's a new one
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14:06<frosch123>it's the standard message when people change vehicle grfs in game
14:07<frosch123>but the gamelog is fine
14:07<nielsm>let's see where the message exists
14:07<nielsm> roadveh_cmd.cpp
14:08<LordAro>road vehicle trying to split itself?
14:08<nielsm>FollowPreviousRoadVehicle returning INVALID_TRACKDIR
14:08<frosch123>i can only imagine it being a timing problem
14:08<LordAro>removing a road piece under an articulated road veh?
14:08<LordAro>i'm speculating wildly here
14:08<nielsm>yeah it smells a bit like the road disappearing
14:08<frosch123>like the ai being able to reverse vehicles in weird spots
14:09<frosch123>or selling/buying them
14:09<frosch123>or removing tracks beneath a vehicle
14:12<LordAro>can't manage to remove a road beneath a road vehicle myself
14:12<LordAro>could need some AI preciseness
14:12<nielsm>far too many ways FollowPreviousRoadVehicle can return INVALID_TRACKDIR
14:12<frosch123>if it is reproducible with the ai, you can print the commands
14:13<frosch123>LordAro: maybe depot, road stop, level crossing, ...
14:13<nielsm>might be reversing while entering/leaving a depot or wormhole
14:13<LordAro>frosch123: aye
14:13<frosch123>yeah, or tunnel, bridge, ...
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14:14<Wolf01>Had a lot of those in NRT when vehicles tried to take the wrong path
14:14<Wolf01>Like, eltrams trying to go on non electric rail
14:14<frosch123>ah, so also removing/adding tram/road to existing road/tram :)
14:15<frosch123>so many options :)
14:16<nielsm>if it's even reproducible (need to let the save run for 11+ years??) it's probably a good idea to augment the code to print some more details on the failed movement
14:17<Wolf01>I had the same discussion with my coworkers today
14:17<frosch123>usually crash.sav is sufficient
14:17<frosch123>but it is missing
14:17<frosch123>crash.sav contains everything
14:19<LordAro>frosch123: not if it's AI triggered
14:19<frosch123>crash.sav, not crash.png
14:20<frosch123>crash.sav contains the broken rv, and you can check the landscape around it and guess what changed
14:20<nielsm>well it happens inside the roadveh movement code, not as a result of another command
14:20<frosch123>it most likely happens directly after a command
14:22<nielsm>oh it's one-and-a-half year, not eleven years, the save needs to run
14:22<andythenorth>I was testing a set of patches for NML
14:22*andythenorth looks for those
14:22<frosch123>nielsm: yes, but it is not exactly a light-cpu game :p
14:22<andythenorth>it was 3 weeks ago :P
14:23<andythenorth>oh here we go
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14:23<andythenorth>I had fixes
14:24<andythenorth>and then there's the prop 28 question
14:24<andythenorth>nielsm: ^ not sure how to best integrate those patches
14:25<nielsm>lol buoys
14:26<frosch123>1999-05-30, this takes ages :p
14:26<andythenorth>also what are those terrible newgrf ships :P
14:26<frosch123>dbg: [sprite] Tried to load character sprite #15 as a recolour sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference <- is that their fault?
14:27<andythenorth>more terrible grf choices :P
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14:28<andythenorth>oh there was this too
14:28<andythenorth>so many things I should do :P
14:28<LordAro>oh yeah, that thing
14:28<LordAro>still no idea how to fix that properly
14:29<frosch123>more coffee?
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14:29<LordAro>smacking apple upside the head for using a completely separate version scheme
14:29<andythenorth>class action suit? :P
14:30<andythenorth>it's the only thing that gets Apple's attention :P
14:31<LordAro>could hardcode a "if apple, version number is actually this" set of rules
14:31<LordAro>or could finish TB's cmake build system
14:32<andythenorth>for now, I have a workaround
14:32<andythenorth>it builds, we have a probably cause
14:32<andythenorth>so cmake? :P
14:33<nielsm>almost aug 7 2000
14:34<nielsm>okay doesn't reproduce in this build at least
14:34<nielsm>(it's not 1.8.0)
14:34<frosch123>LordAro: is it known that cmake fixed it, or is that only hopeful thinking?
14:37<LordAro>frosch123: hopeful, but expected, iirc
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14:42<nielsm>okay doesn't reproduce in my vanilla 1.8.0 install either
14:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6890: Crash: disconnecting road vehicle
14:46<frosch123>nielsm: there are tons of Random calls in the ai
14:47<nielsm>but aren't those supposed to be deterministic too?
14:47<nielsm>or are they Actually Random?
14:48<nielsm>(since AI only runs on the host in multiplayer, and not every client, afaik)
14:48<frosch123>i think ai random seed it not store
14:48<frosch123>iirc ottd only has two random seeds
14:48<frosch123>one for gameplay, which ai must not used
14:48<frosch123>and a second one for client stuff
14:51*nielsm looks at the time
14:52<nielsm>late, haven't had much food yet, need to run out
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14:53<andythenorth>deliveroo :D
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>i just made some freezer food in the oven
15:00<frosch123>do you also cook food in the fridge?
15:01<andythenorth>I cook the oven in the fridge
15:01<andythenorth>and freezer the fridge in the food
15:02<Samu>how do I use CONFIG_RANDOM flag?
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>or i fridge food in the cooker?
15:02<Samu>doesn't seem to work, I am randomizing PASS and MAIL choice
15:02<Samu>it always picks PASS
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15:05<Eddi|zuHause>oha, it's no longer "public transport", it's now "Mobility as a Service"
15:06<andythenorth>that happened
15:06<andythenorth>I need alberth as a service
15:07<andythenorth>or at least someone else who will indulge my GS idea
15:08<andythenorth>I could have called it 'credit mobilier'
15:08<andythenorth>which is has echoes of mobility-as-a-service :P
15:09<Samu>it always picks PASS, nor MAIL, why!
15:09<Samu>it should be random
15:09<Samu> wiki doesn't have a clear example :(
15:11<Samu>forgot to copy paste the labels
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>that name sounds familiar somehow
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: using fixed regions based on map size might not be that useful of an idea, if that region doesn't actually contain a significant portion of land
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in theory you could go through the map adding up all the land tiles, and then choosing a point where x% of the landmass is to decide the origin area
15:22<andythenorth>good point
15:22<andythenorth>this is oriented to railroad construction
15:23<andythenorth>I hadn't considered water map cases, or non-rail transport types :P
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>"Can a cargo monitor detect origin of cargo on delivery?" <-- in theory the game could do that, but i doubt that GS currently has access to that kind of information
15:28<andythenorth>it doesn't
15:28<andythenorth>the stuff at the bottom is older ideas
15:29<andythenorth>I reduced it to 'connecting towns'
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>so essentially an extension of the "subsidies" of the original game
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>"establish a connection of <cargo> between <town> and <town>"
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>the existing code to check for subsidy completion could be used to trigger a response from the GS to fulfill a goal?
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15:45<andythenorth>yes I wondered about that
15:45<andythenorth>it's perhaps just a more structured way to generate subsidies?
15:45<andythenorth>or at least that might be worth exploring
15:46<andythenorth>so the subsidies are for a deliberate graph, in sequence
15:46<andythenorth>not just random
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16:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, something like that
16:18<andythenorth>is there a name for a graph that has a specific layout on a grid?
16:18<andythenorth>most graphs I've encountered are not anchored to a plane
16:19<andythenorth>I am way out of my depth
16:19<andythenorth>but I need something like, given an array of town x,y pairs
16:20<andythenorth>generate a weighting of nodes that implies an order
16:20<andythenorth>with some nodes equally weighted to allow randomness
16:20<andythenorth>then x% of nodes at each weight must be connected before unlocking the next tier
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>well, you already chose an origin, so you can calculate a distance to that origin
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>and then divide a range of distances into groups
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>you don't even need a graph for that
16:23<andythenorth>so just bands of the map
16:23<andythenorth>along an axis
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>pretty much
16:23<andythenorth>32 tiles or so
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16:23<Eddi|zuHause>more like x% of the map
16:23<andythenorth>so it's a side note that it's a graph, not the implementation
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>x% of the distance between the chosen origin and final destination
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>where the method of choosing those is a separate issue
16:33*andythenorth bed
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17:04<Samu>Wormnest: can you help me ?
17:04<Samu>CONFIG_BOOLEAN in AIInfo doesn't work for me, or I can't manage to make it work
17:07<Samu>Users won't explicitly set the value, it'll get a random value between min_value and max_value.
17:07<Samu>i can't manage to make it work :(
17:10<Wormnest> Check how other ai´s use it
17:11<Samu>do you know any ai using it? :(
17:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bou6 opened issue #6891: Question Building the project on Windows
17:20<LordAro>well that's not an issue
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17:29<Samu>Wormnest: can't find any ai that uses it
17:29<Samu>so far, still on E
17:29<Samu>doing the search alphabetically
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17:35<Wormnest>Samu: idk where you are looking but at least WormAI uses it
17:36<Samu>oh, ok let me check
17:37<Samu>oh crap, I meant to say CONFIG_RANDOM
17:37<Samu>not CONFIG_BOOLEAN :(
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17:39<Samu>my bad
17:40<Samu>CONFIG_RANDOM is what doen't work for me, sorry about that
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17:48<Samu>I looked through them all
17:48<Samu>no AI uses CONFIG_RANDOM flag
17:48<Samu>I wonder if this feature actually works
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18:09<Samu>i think I figured it out
18:09<Samu>the AI must be selected from the pool of Random AIs
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18:21<Samu>guys, your pseudo random number generator always returns 0
18:23<Samu>this->SetSetting((*it).name, InteractiveRandomRange((*it).max_value - (*it).min_value) + (*it).min_value);
18:23<Samu>max value is 1
18:23<Samu>min value is 0
18:23<Samu>InteractiveRandomRange dude has always returned 0
18:23<Samu>out of 14 times
18:23<Samu>that's not very random
18:25<Samu>line 39 of script_config.cpp
18:28<Samu>peter1138: can u look into this?
18:31<Samu>out of 42 times, always 0
18:31<Samu>should I go on?
18:41<Samu>this->SetSetting((*it).name, InteractiveRandomRange((*it).max_value + 1 - (*it).min_value) + (*it).min_value);
18:41<Samu>this fixes it
18:42<Samu>change max_value to max_value + 1
18:42<Samu>because max_value is exclusive
18:43<Samu>for anyone reading :(
18:44<acklen>I was waiting for your 43rd try
18:45<Samu>heh, can you fix it?
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18:46<acklen>so, 1-0 doesn't work, but 2-0 does?
18:50<Samu>Pick a random number between 0 and \a limit - 1, inclusive.
18:50<Samu>2-1 = 1
18:50<Samu>1-0 = 0
18:50<Samu>no wonder it was always returning 0
18:51<Samu>plz fix :) i wanna use this feature in the AI
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19:28<Samu>someone ploz, :(
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 05 00:00:36 2018