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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-09-07

---Logopened Fri Sep 07 00:00:39 2018
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04:23<andythenorth>moin
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06:01<Samu>hi
06:02<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p7wwtf7xn
06:02<Samu>found 2 ways to do the thing
06:02<Samu>method 2 is highly innacurate :(
06:02<Samu>but much faster
06:04<Samu>method 1 is ultra mega super slow in 4k maps
06:04<Samu>but 100% accurate
06:04<Samu>what can I do?
06:07<@peter1138>How inaccurate?
06:07<Samu>there could be some potential towns missing
06:08<@peter1138>What does closestTowns contain?
06:08<Samu>closestsTowns starts equal to town_list, so they're basically all available towns
06:09<@peter1138>I'd've thought you would be building a list UP instead of copying a whole list and removing each item.
06:10<Samu>okay, I lie, they're not really all avaiable towns
06:10<Samu>sec, phone
06:11<Samu>back
06:12<Samu>they're all the towns that have not been used yet, without an airport yet
06:12<Samu>they're also towns that haven't been tried recently in the last batch of 10 failed searchs
06:13<@peter1138>So what makes it inaccurate?
06:14<Samu>it's the center tile of the town
06:14<Samu>it only looks for that tile
06:14<Samu>doesn't search its surroundings
06:15<Samu>there could be a potential tile a bit away from the center tile that could accept an airport
06:16<Samu>it can exclude some towns based on the center tile alone
06:17<Samu>have you seen yesterday screenshot?
06:17<Samu>easier to explain if I look at it
06:18<Samu>ah, here https://imgur.com/WRj4jjR
06:18<Samu>all that white ring
06:18<Samu>is how method 1 searchs
06:18<Samu>method 2 only searches the center tile of a town
06:20<Samu>center tile of towns that are in the periphery of the ring wouldn't be chosen
06:20<@peter1138>So what?
06:21<Samu>well, imagine 4k maps, the huge size of the ring and you can imagine the amount of towns that could it be missing
06:21<Samu>that screenshot is of a 512*512 map
06:22<Samu>an example is tonnley, if you can spot it
06:22<Samu>it's just a few tiles away from the ring
06:23<Samu>an airport could be potentially placed in part of the town
06:23<Samu>the part located north, inside the ring
06:23<Samu>and yet, method 2 didn't include it
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06:26<Samu>or froning*something, or penbourne, or past the ring, like frunley at the top right
06:28<@peter1138>Why would the first method include it?
06:28<Samu>because it's 100% accurate
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06:29<Samu>or am i seeing things wrong?
06:29<@peter1138>How?
06:30<Samu>no, im correct
06:30<@peter1138>First you build a circle of possible tiles. Then you loop through each town and test if your tile list contains the location of a town.
06:30<@peter1138>Method 1 ^
06:31<@peter1138>Method 2: you loop through each town and determine if the distance is permitted.
06:31<Samu>so im doing it wrong
06:32<Samu>looks like im doing it wrong for method 1, that's not what I intended :|
06:32<@peter1138>that's what you wrote..
06:32<@peter1138>What did you... think... you'd written?
06:32<user_666>I used the content commands to download a scenario to my server, how am I supposed to proceed now? it downloaded a .tar that i can see via ftp but not via rcon ls in the content_downloaded directory
06:33<Samu>damn, let me see what I can do
06:35<@peter1138>No seriously, what did you think you'd written?
06:36<Samu>that the closest town to that tile was belonging to the town_list
06:37<Samu>GetClosestTown(tile
06:37<Samu>sec, let me edit
06:37<@peter1138>Samu, don't use that.
06:38<user_666>anyone? even worse is when i manually put .scn files on the server, i don't see them via rcon ls, so i cant start a scenario
06:40<@peter1138>Samu, if you do, restrict it to only ROAD or TOWN tiles. Otherwise, *each call* of that method will loop every single town again.
06:41<Samu> // if (!tileList.HasItem(AITown.GetLocation(AITile.GestClosestTown(tile)))) {
06:41<Samu>hmm
06:43<Samu>Gest* lol
06:43<Samu>looks like I need an extra list?
06:43<Samu>oh man
06:46<Samu>gonna build up the list of towns instead of tearing it down, it seems
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06:53<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pstwsbjfb
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06:54<Samu>if i can't use GetClosestTown, then .... hmm m:(
06:56<Samu>oh
06:56<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2gbtm0ut better
06:56<Samu>actually no, i fail
06:56<Samu>grr
06:57<Samu>the index tile does not exist, hahaha i'm so terrible
07:02<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/petu1y4ig
07:02<Samu>there, now it is running
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07:06<Samu>nevermind, the index town does not exist, why am I so terrible :(
07:07<Samu>closestTownscopy.AddItem(closest_town, tile);
07:08<Samu>fixed* only needed 5 tries
07:10<Samu>testing how terribly slow it is right now
07:10<Samu>brb
07:10<Samu>slower than yesterday
07:13<Samu>https://imgur.com/a/Ut3C2y5
07:13<Samu>on a 4k map with 250k ops/very fast
07:13<Samu>but with the defaults of 10k ops/medium, it won't do anything for years
07:18<Samu>okay, so i can't iterate the whole map, and then i can't use GetClosestTown
07:18<Samu>method 1 = rip
07:18<Samu>how to improve method 2 ?
07:21<Samu>this screenshot shows how many towns are found when using both methods
07:21<Samu>https://imgur.com/2Fih6UR
07:22<Samu>finally exposed the innacuracy problem of method 2
07:23<Samu>@calc 180 / 227
07:23<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.79295154185
07:23<Samu>only accounts for 79% of towns
07:26<Samu>btw there is a huge stall when GetClosestTown is executed
07:26<Samu>can barely move the mouse
07:26<@peter1138>11:40 <@peter1138> Samu, if you do, restrict it to only ROAD or TOWN tiles. Otherwise, *each call* of that method will loop every single town again.
07:27<@peter1138>I wasn't joking.
07:27<Samu>well, but... method 1 is to be eliminated
07:28<Samu>unless you know of a better way to iterate the full map
07:29<@peter1138>Avoid it.
07:30<@peter1138>You don't need to iterate the full map anyway.
07:40<Samu>well, i'm going to use method 2 for the time being
07:41<Samu>until I figure out a way to improve it
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07:52<Samu>At least I learned a new thing
07:52<Samu>GetClosestTown is evil
07:52<Samu>i've used it in a few places
07:54<@peter1138>Not evil, just brute force. It's okay on a town tile, that's about it.
07:58<Samu>tileList.Valuate(AITile.GetClosestTown);
07:58<Samu>keks
07:58<Samu>oh god
07:59<Samu>at least now I know the source of the slowdowns
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08:01<Samu>hmm this valuator
08:01<Samu>if i don't use it, i'm going to start placing airports in the wrong towns
08:02<Samu>and those asserts will trigger
08:02<Samu>bah
08:02<Samu>what can I do
08:04<Samu>if there are 2 towns near each other
08:05<Samu>and I am looking to place it in town x, it could sometimes find town y to be a better spot for the airport, the valuator is used to ensure I always put the airport it town x
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10:11<Samu>we got a problem :(
10:11<Samu>I
10:11<Samu>due to the order of things being shited around, i can't keep track of tried towns as easily :(
10:12<Samu>shifted*
10:12<Samu>how do I solve this
10:15<Samu>I used to have: for town A to Z { for airporttype 1 to 9 } }
10:16<Samu>now I got for airporttype 1 to 9 { for town A to Z } }
10:16<Samu>can't just add a town to triedtown list as I used to
10:16<Samu>halp
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10:20<Samu>must think
10:25<Samu>pff, how am I gonna guess ahead of time :(
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10:34<Samu>got to revert
10:35<Samu>for town A to Z { for airportype 1 to 9 } } is still the better order
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10:53<@Alberth>o/
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11:53<Samu>according to NoNoCAB, there really are 12544 towns in a 4k map
11:53<Samu>and 20498 industries
11:55<@Alberth>good luck connecting them all
11:57<Samu>it is averaging 9 days for each time it succeeds building an airport route in a 4k map now
11:57<Samu>for the small airport
11:57<Samu>haven't tested larger airports yet
11:59<Samu>dont think it's possible
11:59<Samu>only 5k vehicles
12:00<Samu>1 vehicle per 2 towns that's 10k towns
12:00<Samu>unless i tell it to go to 3 different towns
12:00<@Alberth>yeah, you need to make longer lines so trains serve more cities
12:02<Samu>NoNoCAB has the strongest start no matter what I do :p
12:03<@Alberth>limit connection to a small part of the map?
12:04<Samu>i'm also doing a different test, each ai starts with 100 million £
12:05<Samu>my current implementation starts the strongest, hmm so the search is fast
12:05<@Alberth>:o I wish I had such an amount money :)
12:05<Samu>the management of the first routes is the issue
12:05<@Alberth>quickly change it to euros before the brexit :)
12:05<Samu>they're probably not the best
12:06<Samu>well, I dont use full loads
12:06<Samu>i dont use services
12:06<Samu>yeah, that kind of things actually help
12:07<Samu>it's just go to station a or b, load/unload if available
12:07<Samu>and i let it do the servicing on its own
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12:44<andythenorth>oops
12:44<andythenorth>I read forums :|
12:50<andythenorth>acs121 continues to spread misinformation :P
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12:56<@Alberth>yep
12:56<@Alberth>hi hi btw
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12:57<@peter1138>Oh?
12:57<Samu>Wormnest: your NoNoCAB is really strong with aircraft early game
12:57<@peter1138>Cos I don't read it.
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12:59<andythenorth>it doesn't matter, forums are over :)
12:59<Wormnest>That´s nice Samu :)
12:59<andythenorth>just need somewhere else to announce newgrf updates now :P
12:59<andythenorth>do I have to crack and get a reddit account?
13:00<Samu>well at least my ai has one advantage over the others I'm testing
13:00<Samu>it plans the fastest
13:00<Samu>but not the most profitable way
13:01<Samu>that goes to NoNoCAB he's just the king, leaves everyone else in the dust
13:02<Samu>Admiral AI is half of NoNOCAB
13:02<Samu>and my AI is 3rd at 1/3 of Admiral AI
13:03<Samu>that makes it 1/6 or NoNoCAB?
13:03<Samu>i thought AIAI was strong
13:04<Samu>at least in my previous tests it came out first
13:04<Samu>must be strongest later on
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13:04<Samu>it's weak at the start
13:09*andythenorth tests https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6848
13:10<andythenorth>oof can't compile
13:14<andythenorth>also
13:14<andythenorth>who fixed FFWD on mac os?
13:14<andythenorth>:P
13:18<andythenorth>eh the frame rate window exists now :D
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13:21<andythenorth>peter1138: fancy having an opinion on this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6848
13:21<andythenorth>I think it's better than trunk 'improved' trees which spams them everywhere
13:21<andythenorth>but I'm not convinced it's better enough
13:22<andythenorth>and I think, on ffwd, that trees still disappear over time
13:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6848: Feature : New Trees Placement Algorithm "Forest". https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6848#issuecomment-419509626
13:32<lethosor>andythenorth: fast forward? There was a PR to decouple simulation from graphics frame rate, but not platform specific
13:33<andythenorth>it's probably some unfathomable combination of new mac + mac OS changes + deps changes + openttd changes
13:34<lethosor>What, fast forward specifically or some compiler issues?
13:35<andythenorth>fast forward being fast again
13:36<andythenorth>40 years in about 5 mins
13:36<andythenorth>oh it's slowed down now, 3 AIs started
13:36<lethosor>That's almost certainly due to the openttd changes I mentioned
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13:41<Wolf01>o/
13:41<@Alberth>o/
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13:44<lethosor>Oops, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6744 wasn't merged. Maybe I was thinking of something else
13:45<andythenorth>I might just be imagining it
13:46<andythenorth>I don't have timing data :)
13:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Skymanboy opened pull request #6893: Update a few translation misstakes in german.txt https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6893
13:47<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Skymanboy closed pull request #6893: Update a few translation misstakes in german.txt https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6893
13:59<Samu>I wish 4k maps could fast forward faster
13:59<andythenorth>they don't
13:59<andythenorth>because they're too big
13:59<andythenorth>they should just be removed
13:59<Samu>uhm... ok
13:59<Samu>why was it released
14:00<andythenorth>because reasons
14:01<Samu>i suspect this game would run well on an intel processor
14:01<Samu>faster forwards in them
14:03<Samu>Wormnest: what exactly the think faster option
14:03<Samu>in wormAI
14:04<Samu>it will build more stuff in less time?
14:04<Samu>speaking in airport routes
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14:08<Samu>ah, it should have been fast
14:13<LordAro>mistakes in the german? i suspect not :p
14:13<andythenorth>poor deliveroo rider
14:13<andythenorth>curry house is bottom of a hill
14:13<andythenorth>I am top
14:13<@peter1138>Christmas shit in the supermarkets already :(
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14:15<andythenorth>36m elevation difference
14:15<andythenorth>in 0.7 miles
14:16<andythenorth>oh google maps has a height thing now too
14:17<andythenorth>peter1138: is the John Lewis ad on yet? :P
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14:36<LordAro>@calc 0.0223 / 0.7
14:36<@DorpsGek>LordAro: 0.0318571428571
14:36<LordAro>3% hill, i think they'll cope :p
14:37<andythenorth>I cycle it home from work
14:37<andythenorth>it sucks :P
14:37<LordAro>:p
14:38<@peter1138>Get fit!
14:43<andythenorth>electric bike
14:43<andythenorth>is the next step
14:43<andythenorth>downtube or hub motor? o_O
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15:11<Samu>https://imgur.com/g6Oh4Ou yay
15:11<Samu>it finally blooms!
15:11<Samu>NoNoCAB is brown
15:12<Samu>AdmiralAI is green
15:13<Samu>NoNoCAB just manages to do a much better start to enjoy a wealthy advantage in the early years
15:15<Samu>large airports are coming soon
15:15<Samu>things might shift once again
15:16<Samu>Wormnest: NoNoCAB only keeps track of 2000 towns, right?
15:17<Samu>so... uh that seems LuDiAI AfterFix has greater chances to take the lead
15:17<Samu>it handles all 12k
15:17<Samu>we'll see
15:18<Samu>there's also WormAI in the test, but it's currently buried down
15:19<Samu>large airports are coming...
15:21<Samu>NoCAB, the original one, can't start in a 4k map, it makes openttd poof
15:21<Samu>that's why I am not testing it
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15:35<Samu>I hope I don't have to deal with the issue of lost helicopters
15:35<Samu>they're not exactly lost, but they're not being sold when they become old
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15:47<@peter1138>andythenorth, legs.
15:48<LordAro>^
15:48*LordAro judges furiously
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16:28<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 08 00:00:40 2018