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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-09-24

---Logopened Mon Sep 24 00:00:03 2018
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07:47<Samu>i'm inventing a new cost!
07:47<Samu>drive through
07:48<Samu>_cost_drive_through = null; ///< The extra cost if a road tile is part of a drive through road station.
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09:53<Samu>is this explanation confusing:
09:53<Samu> _cost_no_existing_road = null; ///< The cost that is added to _cost_tile if no road connection exists between two tiles. Added twice when the tile to enter has no road, no bridge and no tunnel.
09:54<Samu>how to english?
09:56<m3henry>Perhaps "Cost is doubled when..."
09:57<m3henry>Also is 'null' appropriate? Doesn't sound like a pointer to me
09:57<Samu>yes, at this place
09:57<Samu>the constructor comes next
09:57<Samu>with this._cost_no_existing_road = 40;
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09:59<Samu>but the explanation per se, does it sound confusing?
10:00<m3henry>Is it no_bridge && no_road && no_tunnel?
10:01<Samu>it's this
10:01<Samu>guess it's a ||
10:03<Samu>IsRoadTile includes drivethrough already
10:03<Samu>and since road vehicles can walk on competitor's drive throughs, it's not needed to check if the drive through is mine
10:05<m3henry>I would say that the if statement is a bit unweildy
10:10<Samu>let me try something different
10:12<Samu>is this better?
10:14<Samu>maybe not
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10:14<Samu>what would you do m3henry
10:15<m3henry>This may be more readable:
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10:19<Samu>which one would be computed with less operations?
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10:19<m3henry>By breaking the statement up, you can explain the logic in the variable names
10:19<Samu>this function is called a bajillion times for almost every tile while pathfinding
10:20<Samu>so, it's also important to get the same result in less ops
10:20<m3henry>Have you benchmarked it?
10:20<Samu>not really, but
10:20<m3henry>but benchmark it
10:20<Samu>i saw it in action, it's really intensive
10:21<Samu>debug signs everywhere
10:21<Samu>not sure how i'm gonna benchmark such thing
10:22<Samu>i notice, for example, a high value on here will make the pathfinder check more tiles
10:23<m3henry>An aggressive optimizing compiler is likely to emit similar if not identical machine code for those statements
10:24<m3henry>It's not something I would worry about
10:24<Samu>there's a max #opcodes :o
10:24<Samu>but oki
10:24<m3henry>Have you got the most efficent algorithm?
10:26<Samu>no idea, i was just trying to make the costs look consistent
10:27<Samu>i suppose the original code was faster, for a reason alone, it only tests bridges on sloped tiles
10:27<Samu>my changes make it test bridges on every kind of slope
10:27<Samu>flat slopes
10:28<m3henry>If it is more correct, then you'll have to take that hit
10:28<Samu>pretty much yes
10:28<m3henry>perhaps you can amorrtize the cost over n cycles
10:30<Samu>the original costs was doing DistanceManhattan multiple times for costs
10:30<Samu>repeating the same
10:30<Samu>so i turned it into a local dist = DistanceManhattan
10:30<Samu>i suppose it would fasten up
10:31<Samu>not really sure how the opcodes measure
10:31<Samu>but i expect there would be less operations needed
10:33<Samu> here's the original
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10:43<Samu>maybe i can measure :p
10:44<Samu>let me experiment this
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10:49<Samu>how do i actually measure
10:49<Samu>without influencing the measure myself with debug messages
10:50<Samu>seems that's something not possible to do
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10:53<Samu>why do i get a big negative value at times?
10:54<Samu>max opcodes atm is 10000
10:56<Samu>gonna try ur code
10:59<Samu>my code wins
10:59<Samu>with 48
10:59<Samu>oh, he left
11:08<Samu>got a 47 with my original code
11:10<Samu>if there is a connection: 12
11:11<Samu>if there is a road on new_tile: 26
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11:11<Samu>if there is no road on new_tile: 47
11:12<Samu>no road on new_tile is the most common occurence
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11:46<Samu>12 / 26 / 47 vs 12 / 23 / 48 vs 12 / 37 / 49
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11:56<Samu>Alberth: (12/26/47) vs (12/23/48) vs (12/37/49)
11:56<Samu>number of opcodes
11:57<Samu>x/y/z : x opcodes if there is a connection, y opcodes if there is a road on new_tile, z opcodes if there is no road on new_tile
11:58<Samu>i'm undecided between the first and second codes
11:58<Samu>what is preferible
11:58<@Alberth>throw a die
11:59<Samu>I'm more inclined towards 12/26/47
12:00<@Alberth>you get opcodes in the 10,000s right?
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12:00<Samu>yes, the default is 10000
12:00<@Alberth>not sure how significant 1 op is
12:01<Samu>it's calculated for every tile neighbour stuff
12:02<Samu>@calc 10000 / 47
12:02<@DorpsGek>Samu: 212.765957447
12:03<Samu>@calc 10000 / 48
12:03<@DorpsGek>Samu: 208.333333333
12:03<Samu>@calc 10000 / 49
12:03<@DorpsGek>Samu: 204.081632653
12:04<@Alberth>you're avoiding doing double calculations?
12:05<@Alberth>that 212 vs 208 isn't true, you also do other things than just computing a tile status
12:07<Samu>z is the most common occurence t.t
12:07<Samu>building on a empty tile
12:08<Samu>y happens when it connects to an existing road
12:08<Samu>x happens when it's already connected
12:10<Samu>y is probably the most rare
12:10<Samu>so i'm inclined towards that z =47
12:10<Samu>there's just too many empty tiles on the map
12:13<Samu>haven't tested computing stations
12:13<Samu>would probably go over 50
12:14<Samu>stations or depot
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12:14<Samu>there's much less stations/depots on the map than there is roads
12:15<Samu>unless you can come with a more efficient way to do these checks
12:16<Samu>I'll settle for for now
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12:58<Samu>just 1 tile
12:58<Samu>1 neighbour
13:01<Samu>hmm _cost_slope is a bit expensive
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13:36<Samu>the slope checking is expensive t.t
13:36<Samu>grr, how to fix
13:36<Samu>must dissect it
13:43<andythenorth>is it stuff?
13:44<andythenorth>I have played tanks enough
13:44<andythenorth>are we making the game?
13:48<Samu>this part cost 80-107 ops
13:48<Samu>how to make it more efficient?
13:48<@Alberth>at least samu is making the game :)
13:49<Samu>and if combined with the isbridge and istunnel checks it can go to 140s
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14:00<nielsm>Samu try replacing the first 8 lines with this, it might be less ops:
14:05<Samu>woah, let me try that
14:05<LordAro>looks nicer too :p
14:08<Samu>i reduced from 107 to 98
14:08<Samu>now testing nielsm code
14:09<Samu>woah, thx
14:10<Samu>i hope it's doing the same as before, i didn't really verify that
14:10<nielsm>it should be
14:10<nielsm>basically eliminates some redundant calls to the library (they might be expensive, might not) and some shared expression elimination
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14:17<Samu>tried this
14:17<Samu>local NW = middle - AIMap.GetMapSizeX();
14:17<Samu>local SE = middle + AIMap.GetMapSizeX();
14:17<Samu>got 89
14:17<andythenorth>so nielsm
14:17<Samu>so yeah, it's worse
14:17<andythenorth>what silly thing shall we do next? o_O
14:18<LordAro>the same thing we do every night
14:18<andythenorth>look at PRs and wonder how to get them approved? o_O
14:20<nielsm>I was working on those GS controls of industry production levels
14:20<nielsm>got slightly sidetracked by a swathe of cargo types :P
14:21<LordAro>frosch123: you should merge some PRs
14:21<andythenorth>I wondered about starting a patchpack
14:21<LordAro>andythenorth: ^ that's how it works, right?
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14:22<andythenorth>LordAro: sometimes :P
14:22<andythenorth>I think my C++ is too piss poor for me to maintain a PP
14:22<andythenorth>and I don't think it will improve fast enough to be worth it
14:23<LordAro>for the most part there's very little involved
14:23<LordAro>only when they overlap
14:23<LordAro>most of it is git skills >:)
14:23<andythenorth>am I the only person still playing trunk?
14:23<LordAro>what, svn trunk? :p
14:24<andythenorth>forums are all playing JGR
14:24<andythenorth>pretty much universally
14:24<andythenorth>I assume a chunk of player base is just playing stable release
14:24<LordAro>still seeing plenty of bug reports from 1.8.0
14:24<andythenorth>JGR PP has won
14:25<LordAro>the sooner 1.9.0 can happen the better, imo
14:25<LordAro>also restored nightlies
14:25<andythenorth>well...what can we do about it?
14:25<andythenorth>I can either help, or draw pixels
14:25<andythenorth>of give money to Wargaming and play tanks
14:25<andythenorth>of / or /s
14:25<andythenorth>what blocks the new compile farm?
14:26<LordAro>i think nightlies are purely dependent on TB
14:26<nielsm>what needs to be done for nightly builds, apart from possibly something regarding money?
14:26<andythenorth>TrueBrain did you have a trello or something for new CF?
14:26<LordAro>or was it windows builds that were blocking?
14:26<andythenorth>mumble mumble project management
14:26<LordAro>mumble mumble bus factor
14:27<LordAro>it's in my logs somewhere, lemme find it
14:29<andythenorth>ok so 'where to host it' is kind of a blocker?
14:29<LordAro>that does sound familiar, because windows needs to be a separate host
14:30<LordAro>i'm gonna do it
14:30<LordAro>@seen TrueBrain
14:30<@DorpsGek>LordAro: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 4 days, 0 hours, 2 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> typing is hard
14:30<nielsm>if any junk machine will do I now have a small machine left over
14:30<LordAro>huh, thought it was longer
14:31<nielsm>my old htpc had its hdmi output fried so can't use it for multimedia purposes
14:31<nielsm>but it could still serve as a build host
14:32<LordAro>iirc TB had a grand plan involving kubernetes
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14:32<andythenorth>I did bureacracy
14:33<LordAro>oh, did github-dorpsgek get dumped on the other side of a netsplit?
14:34<Samu>speaking of AIMap.GetMapSizeX()
14:34<Samu>this thing is used almost everywhere
14:34<Samu>maybe i should make it a global variable?
14:34<Samu>or whatever you call it
14:34<LordAro>Samu: well it's not going to change
14:34<LordAro>so at least some sort of constant somewhere would seem appropriate
14:34<LordAro>still probably premature optimisation
14:34<Samu>ah, yes, a constant
14:35<nielsm>if you need the value a lot just pull it into a local
14:36<Samu>before the constructor thing, right?
14:36<nielsm>having it in a global constant within a "namespace class" probably costs nearly just as much as having it behind a function
14:36<Samu>oh :(
14:36<nielsm>at least if it's similar to lua, then the lookup of a member in a global space is a bunch of ops in itself
14:37<nielsm>get global namespace, look up named global, look up field in found object
14:37<nielsm>and call it if it's a function
14:38<nielsm>that's 3 or 4 ops to get
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14:40<LordAro>andythenorth: well, at least it will mean that TB gets sent an email :p
14:54<Samu>oh yeah 84 now
14:54<Samu> local map_size_x = this._map_size_x;
14:55<Samu>very redundant but saves one more ops
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15:00<Samu>function Road::_IsSlopedRoad(start, middle, end, map_size_x = Road._map_size_x)
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15:01<Samu>very funny stuff
15:01<LordAro>oho, that's sneaky
15:01<LordAro>remember that code readability is important
15:01<LordAro>making microoptimisations is likely not worth it in the long run
15:02<LordAro>(and it's probably just moving the op to the global level, rather than actually removing it)
15:02<Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a great deal!
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>"Give us all your data and your firstborn, so we can spam the fuck out of you. you get the chance to win a new smartphone"
15:09<nielsm> <- Samu try this, not sure if it's correct
15:10<nielsm>uh fixed:
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of algorithm is generating your filenames?
15:15<LordAro>sequential with other people using it, i think
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15:15<nielsm>yeah, it's not my hosting service
15:15<nielsm>so just sequential in some high base
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>but then, how is p->f->V->W a sequence?
15:16<LordAro>can you delete things, perhaps?
15:16<nielsm>it shouldn't reuse names afaik
15:18<nielsm>if this code is correct and my method of counting is correct too, I think it should top out at 20 ops
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15:33<LordAro>glx: hey, you're someone who can review & merge things as well :>
15:33<+glx>hmm yes
15:33<LordAro>that said there are only 6 that aren't waiting on the author
15:34<andythenorth>it's actually in pretty good shape
15:34<andythenorth>151 closed PRs
15:34<LordAro>andythenorth: ok, i'm on your side now - do we close the ones that have been 3 months without activity?
15:35<andythenorth>like peter1138's?
15:35<LordAro>well if it's been 3 months...
15:35<LordAro>they can always be reopened
15:35<andythenorth>eh we could fix some issues
15:35<andythenorth>here's a great one
15:35<LordAro>shit, yeah
15:36<LordAro>well, we know exactly why it's happening
15:36<LordAro>the issue is how to fix it
15:36<LordAro>i feel like i've said that already
15:38<+glx>hmm #6913 probably won't happen
15:38<LordAro>no, i didn't think so
15:38<andythenorth>can't see it
15:38<+glx>it's an issue
15:38<andythenorth>too specific to DC?
15:38<andythenorth>I mean I can't see it happening :)
15:39<+glx>ha yes too specific, and if we start to add something like that all other similar stuff will be asked
15:40<LordAro>i think that's a "you're welcome to implement it yourself, but lol no"
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like something for an admin port library?
15:40<+glx>next they will ask for twitch integration
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>same response
15:41<+glx>ah yes I think an admin port library could do that
15:42<nielsm>"run this other program too to make the game show up" is not a great solution though
15:43<LordAro>some sort of "ottd_discord" wrapper wouldn't be too difficult from there though
15:44<nielsm>otherwise a kind of plugin system
15:44<andythenorth>all your openttd belong to us
15:48<LordAro>i could hack it so that if you've got "Apple LLVM" compiler, it just forces it to some reasonable version
15:49<LordAro>or we could revert that change so that c++11 isn't actually "required"
15:49<LordAro>or both
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>what is the actual problem? it can't read the version number correctly?
15:50<LordAro>basically, yeah
15:51<LordAro>because apple are stupid and wipe out all trace of the actual clang version number
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>does it maybe choke on some unprintable characters like colour codes?
15:51<andythenorth>it's something like this (or similar)
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16:26<LordAro>andythenorth: can you add a `echo "foo: $cc_version"` on line 1329 of config.lib ?
16:27<LordAro>according to the issue, you should be getting "version" 91
16:27<LordAro>issue comments*
16:27<LordAro>but that shouldn't be causing any issues#
16:27<andythenorth>ok BRB
16:28<LordAro>if [ "$cc_version" -lt "30" ]; then branch is triggering, but i don't see how
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16:31<andythenorth>foo: 10
16:32<andythenorth>printed twice
16:32<LordAro>well that explains the version issue
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16:33<LordAro>for my own peace of mind, can you run `cc -v 2>&1 | head -n1` ?
16:33<LordAro>and also clang -v 2>&1 | head -n1
16:33<andythenorth>Apple LLVM version 9.1.0 (clang-902.0.39.2)
16:33<andythenorth>Apple LLVM version 9.1.0 (clang-902.0.39.2)
16:33<LordAro>gcc ?
16:34<andythenorth>clang: error: no input files
16:34<LordAro>`gcc -v 2>&1 | head -n1` :p
16:35<andythenorth>I wondered :P
16:35<andythenorth>I learnt to only paste what people type :P
16:35<andythenorth>Configured with: --prefix=/Applications/ --with-gxx-include-dir=/Applications/
16:35<LordAro>that's... really stupid
16:35<LordAro>but explains where the 10 comes from
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16:37<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so why won't this work then? o_O
16:37*andythenorth assumes there's a reason
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it was never implemented because... it's complicated (tm)
16:39<LordAro>hmm, i guess that could work... replace 1328 with: cc_version="`$1 -v 2>&1 | grep -i version | head -n 1 | sed s@[^0-9]@@g | cut -c 1-2`"
16:40<andythenorth>foo: 91
16:40<LordAro>try compiling
16:40*andythenorth compiling
16:41<andythenorth>not sure if I have the vars set here, do they persist past a computer restart?
16:41<andythenorth>or I could just explicitly clear them
16:42<andythenorth>oh meanwhile
16:42<andythenorth>clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
16:42<LordAro>andythenorth: not unless you `export`ed them
16:42<LordAro>that's disappointing
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: anyway, CB36 doesn't have any way to access the to-be-shuffled properties, because of recursiveness
16:42<LordAro>that could be the iconv thing again
16:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's kind of a blocker :)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: proper way is to actually reorder the articulated vehicles
16:42<LordAro>andythenorth: just to confirm, LDFLAGS="-liconv" ./configure && make ?
16:43<andythenorth>LordAro: works now
16:43<andythenorth>with that
16:43<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how will I do stupid livery tricks on flip then? :P
16:43<andythenorth>if the vehicles actually reverse :(
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you don't.
16:44<andythenorth>LordAro: so does that advance us any further? o_O
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>more important question: try to resurrect this starting-to-show-old-age computer or just suck it and buy a new one?
16:45<LordAro>andythenorth: it does!
16:46<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: try to resurrect it
16:46<andythenorth>then regret
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>already beyond those two phases
16:46<LordAro>next issue is iconv(.h) detection, but it looks like you can override that for now with ./configure --with-iconv - no need for environment variables
16:46<LordAro>if you want to continue, i'd be interested in the output of `find / -name iconv.h 2>/dev/null`
16:46<andythenorth>configure: error: iconv couldn't be found
16:47<andythenorth>that wasn't output from find
16:47<andythenorth>that was from configure parameter
16:47<LordAro>ah yeah, i misread the thing
16:47<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: that'd work, just a matter of determining the path
16:47<LordAro>and working out why the configure script isn't checking it by default
16:47<andythenorth>the find command prints the path
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16:48<LordAro>just that one?
16:48<andythenorth>just that one
16:48<andythenorth>obvs. varies per mac eh
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16:58<LordAro>andythenorth: at the risk of asking the obvious, are you sure iconv is installed "properly" ?
16:58<andythenorth>it's installed using one of the 2 sensible ways
16:58<andythenorth>I could reinstall
16:59<andythenorth>I'll see if there's any upgrade
17:00*andythenorth waiting for ports tree :P
17:03<LordAro>for whatever reason, the build system is expecting /usr/include/iconv.h or /usr/local/include/iconv.h
17:03<LordAro>i don't know enough about OSX to know why you've got a /usr/local/Cellar
17:03<LordAro>and why iconv is in there
17:04<LordAro>but fwiw, ./configure --with-iconv=/usr/local/Cellar/libiconv/1.15 will work
17:04<lethosor_>That's from homebrew
17:04<andythenorth>the options on macos are homebrew or macports
17:05<andythenorth>or installing your own in the system
17:05<andythenorth>which inevitably breaks when Apple upgrade the OS
17:05<lethosor_>Generally Homebrew will install packages to /usr/local, but maybe not for iconv
17:06<LordAro>hmm, i could do some fanciness to just iterate over the searchpaths...
17:06<LordAro>instead of just /usr/include & /usr/local/include
17:08<andythenorth>allegedly homebrew is supposed to symlink /usr/local/opt/
17:09<andythenorth>seems it does afaict
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17:13<lethosor_>LordAro: homebrew normally links packages it installs into /usr/local. In the case of libiconv, it does not, because macOS distributes libiconv itself
17:13<andythenorth>such fun
17:13<lethosor_>brew info libiconv: "Caveats: libiconv is keg-only, which means it was not symlinked into /usr/local, because macOS already provides this software and installing another version in parallel can cause all kinds of trouble."
17:13<lethosor_>are you still having issues with linking it? not that it helps, but it works fine for me with homebrew, despite that
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17:15<LordAro>nothing has any issue linking it
17:16<LordAro>all andythenorth needs to do is force it with ldflags
17:16<LordAro>but the build system is only checking /usr/{local/,}include/ for iconv.h
17:16<LordAro>hang on, i'm putting a branch together
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17:19<LordAro>andythenorth: feel like trying ?
17:20<Samu>where is nielsm
17:21<andythenorth>probably gone to bed
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17:22*andythenorth cloning
17:25<Samu>got 49 ops
17:26<Samu>he said it would top at 20
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17:28<LordAro>Samu: well that's still nearly half what you had
17:30<Samu>im not sure what is to edit out
17:30<andythenorth>LordAro: test compiling :P
17:30<andythenorth>eh, let's see if it finished
17:31<Samu>does his code account for IsSteepSlope
17:32<LordAro>i think that's for you to work out
17:32<andythenorth>LordAro: compiled, runs
17:32*LordAro PRs
17:32<andythenorth>awesome thanks
17:32<Samu>too cody for my brain
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17:34<Samu>i'm always getting 44, that seems fishy
17:36<Samu>i have an idea
17:36<Samu>to see if his function outputs the same result, i'm gonna use this function twice and then assert compare between each other
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17:41<LordAro>wait, crap, i can create branches on OpenTTD/OpenTTD as well?
17:41<andythenorth>the power
17:41*LordAro deletes
17:41<LordAro>you saw nothing
17:41<LordAro>still can't merge PRs though :p
17:42<Samu>assert(self._IsSlopedRoad(par_tile, prev_tile, new_tile) == self._IsSlopedRoadEfficient(par_tile, prev_tile, new_tile));
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17:44<Samu>assertion failed... rip
17:45<Samu>either i misunderstand what needs to be edited, or...
17:59<Samu>local t = AITile; this didn't save any op
17:59<Samu>remained the same
18:01<+glx>LordAro: searchpath looks like brute force ;)
18:01<Samu>nevermind, i was edited the wrong file, grr
18:01<+glx>OSX is worse than MSYS/MSYS2
18:02<lethosor_>glx: what?
18:03<+glx>we needed to add many special cases for MSYS2
18:03<+glx>but not like that
18:03<lethosor_>Checking /usr/local/Cellar is too much work?
18:04<Samu>actually it helps
18:04<Samu>76 ops
18:06<lethosor_>Looks like more than necessary to me
18:06<+glx>I think it's for the next time something changes in OSX world ;)
18:07<lethosor_>It's not a recent change by any means
18:07<lethosor_>Homebrew has never installed iconv system-wide
18:09<LordAro>i don't understand how it became an issue recently though
18:09<LordAro>did older osx just leave an old iconv.h header lying around or something?
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18:10<lethosor_>It's a system-specific issue somehow. It works fine for me, like I said
18:13<andythenorth>it only started happening on a clean install of macOS for me
18:14<andythenorth>old one probably cargo culted something
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18:19<Samu>46/44/77/77/77/46/44/75/71/77/72 - _IsSlopedRoadEfficient
18:21<LordAro>(wrote a load more text in #6917 for future people)
18:21<Samu>70/68/107/107/107/68/66/105/97/107/103 - _IsSlopedRoad (the original code)
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18:23<Samu>can't manage to make nielsm code to not assert
18:24<Samu>here's both for comparison
18:24<Samu>what I was able to do without asserting
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause><LordAro> wait, crap, i can create branches on OpenTTD/OpenTTD as well? <- sounds like something that should be prevented?
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