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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-10-03

---Logopened Wed Oct 03 00:00:09 2018
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09:28<Samu>no offense to 7zip, but winrar has a better integration with windows explorer
09:32<Samu>speaking of winrar, let me install sublime merge
09:34<Samu>LordAro: Sublime Merge or Sublimerge? there's a slight difference
09:36<Samu>just want to make sure I'm installing the right one
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10:36<LordAro>Samu: sublimemerge
10:37<LordAro>(the other looks like a plugin for sublime text)
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10:53<Samu>wow, this is a big mess for me
10:54<Samu>it's showing me stuff that's already implemented :(
10:55<Samu>so many lines
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10:57<Samu>trees, branches
10:57<Samu>hard to follow
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10:58<Samu>the translations are always getting in the way
11:08<Samu>--------------------------- Sublime Merge --------------------------- D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD svn-trunk doesn't look like a git repository --------------------------- OK ---------------------------
11:08<Samu>uhm, i forgot why I wanted sublime merge
11:10<Samu>where does it open svn patches?
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11:46<LordAro>Samu: the idea was to enable you to rebase/amend without a commandline
11:46<LordAro>and yes, an svn checkout is not a git repo
11:47<Samu>ahh, you're right
11:47<Samu>I remember
11:47<Samu>yeah, maybe next time I have a rebase/amend problem
11:47<Samu>will try use it
11:49<Samu>perhaps I have one now
11:50<Samu>your compilers don't like that I don't use parentheses
11:50<Samu>visual studio here doesn't complain about it, I couldn't guess
11:50<Samu>does it need solving?
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11:56<nielsm>it's only warnings, but yes you should address those and add the parentheses to make the evaluation order explicit
11:58<nielsm>the reason it's a warning is that most people can never remember whether || or && has the higher precedence so it's a risk of mistakes leaving out the parentheses
11:59<Samu>do i use rebase?
11:59<nielsm>it's okay to add another commit on top to fix that
11:59<nielsm>like, "Fix: compiler warnings"
12:00<Samu>oh, ok
12:00<nielsm>we can squash it all when merging into master
12:01<Samu>I also forgot about a variable not being used further down in that log
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12:10<Samu>if (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) || (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_DEPOT) && v->current_order.GetDepotActionType() != ODATFB_NEAREST_DEPOT)) {
12:10<Samu>like this?
12:12<nielsm>looks right
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12:23<Samu>alright, let's see what the compiler dudes say now
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13:09<Samu>it liked it
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14:01<andythenorth>but is cat?
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15:01<andythenorth>eh, we have sprite layers now right?
15:01<Wolf01>Are you ready to abuse it?
15:02<andythenorth>trying to decide how to composite pantographs onto electric trains
15:02<andythenorth>obviously I could just draw them into the sprite :P
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>then what did we implement composite sprites for?
15:06<andythenorth>my thinking too
15:06<andythenorth>so I could (a) draw them (b) composite them into my sprites programmatically with PIL (c) use sprite layers
15:07<andythenorth>if (b) I would use magic pixels to locate the pantographs
15:07<andythenorth>I prefer (c) in this case, for reasons
15:09<andythenorth>but I have to feed offsets to nml for the pantograph position, which is tedious to do manually
15:09<andythenorth>so I wondered about generating those from the position of magic pixels :P
15:11<andythenorth>how many layers do I get?
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15:36<andythenorth>4 apparently
15:37<andythenorth>I'm already using one for rear lights
15:37<andythenorth>2 left :P
15:37<andythenorth>how many pantographs do trains have?
15:43<Heiki>depends on the train, 2 is probably most common for single-unit locomotives
15:46<nielsm>yeah locos tend to have 2 pantographs, when it's the half-pantograph type they're usually mirrored, and apparently which one is used can depend on both direction of travel and type or load or perhaps consist max speed
15:47<nielsm>and some locos might use both pantographs when pulling heavy loads
15:48<Heiki>using more than 1 pantograph is common with lower voltages such as 1.5 or 3 kilovolts
15:48<nielsm>for EMUs there aren't any clear rules but I don't think you have EMUs in horse?
15:49<andythenorth>I do have some
15:49<andythenorth>so do I commit the 2 spare layers to pantographs?
15:49<andythenorth>what else might I want them for?
15:50<nielsm>I remember driving one advanced loco in train simulator where the manual said you should raise both pantographs for goods trains, that was on german main line
15:50<nielsm>nah I'd just use a single layer and have 4 variations of the pantograph sprite
15:50<nielsm>(both down, first up, second up, both up)
15:51<andythenorth>different engines have different spacing between the two
15:51<andythenorth>so I need two layers
15:51<nielsm>how many variations of that do you possibly have?
15:51<andythenorth>there are alternatives where I generate spritesheets for the pantogrpahs
15:51<nielsm>two or three?
15:52<andythenorth>three in the current version of Horse
15:53<andythenorth>it's only barely worth automating this at all
15:54<andythenorth>I could just paste them in the spritesheet
15:54<andythenorth>but I have 13 engines, and only two actual types of pantograph
15:55<andythenorth>"don't repeat yourself" applies in spades
15:56<nielsm>the good thing about hobby projects is you can spend as much time as you like doing things "the right way"!
15:57<andythenorth>I can use magic pixels in the engine spritesheet
15:58<andythenorth>to locate the pantographs, which are then composited into a new spritesheet
15:58<andythenorth>including various up/down positions
15:58<andythenorth>which are then used by a single sprite layer in game, separate from the base engine sprite
15:59<andythenorth>it sounds complex, but is actually the cleanest solution resp. NML templates and spritesheet layouts
15:59<andythenorth>and is still better than manual placement
16:00<andythenorth>oof, debugging sprite layer placement is tedious, have to actually run OpenTTD
16:01<andythenorth>but I can also pre-generate what the composited result would be, and inspect that in the spritesheet, just for debugging
16:01<andythenorth>graphics processing is the most fun
16:04<andythenorth>ok, samu can have the channel back now :P
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: typical rules for pantographs: 1) engines tend to have 2 pantographs, sometimes more for multi-power engines. 2) as long as both pantographs apply to the same power system, the second one (in travel direction) is raised. 2a) if two engines are in a train, and each one needs a pantograph raised, the two most distant from each other are raised (again, permitting compatible power systems)
16:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so I should also do consist-dependent pantograph combinations? o_O
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>the distance between the two raised pantographs directly applies a speed limit, to suppress induced mechanical fluctuations in the wire
16:06<andythenorth>I think we can skip the speed limit
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: probably TMWFTLB
16:06<andythenorth>worryingly, I already have a lot of consist dependent code :P
16:06<andythenorth>and I can generate all combinations of up/down
16:06<andythenorth>if you gave me the ruleset, I probably would implement
16:07<andythenorth>even though it's silly overkill
16:07<andythenorth>what if there are 3 engines?
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>you lost.
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>in most (european) cases, the 3rd engine is at the end of the train, though
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>and this basically only applies to freight trains, which need support going uphill, so speed isn't the main concern there
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>that link is broken
16:10<andythenorth>4? o_O
16:10<andythenorth>that link is awful, sorry
16:10<andythenorth>they really shouldn't
16:10<andythenorth>ridiculous token length
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>in that last picture you see that the last engine has the last pantograph raised, the others the first
16:11<andythenorth>and if the player flips the engine, should the pantograph flip, or stay in technically correct position?
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>actual driving direction is important
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>also, keep in mind that shunting may actually make it into the game, which will basically destroy all your consist code
16:16<andythenorth>I will deal with that if it occurs
16:16<andythenorth>it will have some 'interesting' side effects
16:17<andythenorth>I could always respond sensibly
16:17<andythenorth>maybe delete all my tt-forum posts, then start a simutrans account, then delete all those
16:18<andythenorth>or I could maybe decide to try and get bananas taken down with a DMCA notice
16:18<andythenorth>it's kind of hard to think how to top previous rage quits :P
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>you mean simuscape?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>i barely remember more than 3 ragequits
16:21<andythenorth>I did mean simuscape, oops
16:21<andythenorth>ok so 4 spriterows
16:21<andythenorth>all up, all down, A up B down, A down, B up
16:22<andythenorth>if the engine breaks down, should I lower the pantographs? :P
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>mind you, the "only second pantograph" rule applies to modern engines, historical engines of the early generations had both pantographs raised at all times
16:23<andythenorth>I am going to accomodate that
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>there contact-redundancy had a bigger importance than speed
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>until they invented better pantographs and spring systems and stuff
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16:32<nielsm>also, I am not sure why, but the single electric passenger loco running in denmark atm, in push-pull operation with control car on the other end, when it's turning around at the end of line, the pantographs are both down while the drives moves to the other cab
16:33<nielsm>probably not anything to work in :P
16:33<nielsm>well, maybe... if it's possible to set a trigger on "waiting for load and still not fully loaded"
16:33<nielsm>(or "waiting on timetable)
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16:46<nielsm>thinking about it, it's probably just because they'll be switching pantograph anyway, so may as well make the procedure to always lower it when leaving a cab, and raise the correct one when entering the other cab
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17:32<LordAro>needs reviews
17:32<LordAro>codewise most of Samu's stuff looks fine, but i don't know enough about most of the code to know if it's the correct solution, or what is desired
17:51<sushibear>You know what? OTTD is a roguelikelike. Like dwarf fortress :)
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18:00<@peter1138>LordAro, seems half of them even he doesn't know what it does :p
18:01<LordAro>well, at least one
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18:23<Samu>hi LordAro, I'm looking at it
18:27<Samu>brb creating savegame
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18:42<Samu>hmm about the interactive rebase
18:43<Samu>gonna try use the new program
18:44<LordAro>good luck!
18:44<LordAro>i can't help you with it :p
18:44<LordAro>well, probably
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19:08<Samu>only have Rebase branch
19:08<Samu>oh well, let's try screw things up
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19:10<Samu>uh that's it, panic mode, I don't understand what's happening in the background
19:13<LordAro>hmm, probably want to go back to git bash then
19:13<LordAro>(can't offer any more help tonight, sleep time)
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20:05<thelamset> sorry to bother yall, i have a signal problem, sh40 electric waiting for free path under semaphores and not if i convert them to electric signals, aren't they interchangable?
20:05<thelamset>the railroad is electrified and the train can move back and forth iff the signals are electric
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20:09<Samu>#5 #6 #8 #9 is where I need the edits
20:09<Samu>i change pick to edit on them?
20:10<thelamset>(ok i fiddled with lots of thing and somehow got it to work, thanks in general)
20:11<Samu>sorry thelamset I'm not good with signals
20:11<thelamset>(np, just tried to throw it out in case it was sth obvious)
20:13<Samu>uh, who's a git rebase interactive expert here at this time of the day?
20:15<Samu>stop for amending, isn't amend just for commit messages?
20:28<LordAro>Samu: not just for messages
20:28<LordAro>(shh, am sleep)
20:33<Samu>how am I editing the .cpp files at that point in history?
20:34<Samu>at point #5
20:34<Samu>it rolls back the branch to #5?
20:37<Samu>i give up
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23:13-!-haudrauf is "Haudrauf" on #openttd #frickelplatz @#ffod @#ffnord @#ffki @#ffhl @#ffhh @#fffl #cryptoparty @#ccchh
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23:40-!-Supercheese is "Supercheese" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 04 00:00:10 2018