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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-10-04

---Logopened Thu Oct 04 00:00:10 2018
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07:53<Samu>Payment for delivering 10 units (or 10,000 litres) of cargo a distance of 20 squares
07:53<Samu>Payment for delivering 10 units (or 10,000 litres) of cargo in a straight distance of 20 squares
07:53<Samu>Payment for delivering 10 units (or 10,000 litres) of cargo in a distance of 20 squares straight
07:54<Samu>who's english?
07:56<Samu>I'm changing the payment formula, it modified the way distance is measured
07:56<Samu>it modifies*
07:59<Samu>STR_GRAPH_CARGO_PAYMENT_RATES_TITLE string has to be adjusted accordingly
08:00<snail_UES_>Payment for delivering 10 units (or 10,000 litres) of cargo a distance of 20 squares in a straight line
08:00<Samu>thanks, you're a hero
08:05<Samu>DistanceManhattan(source_tile, st->xy), days_in_transit, cargo_type) becomes
08:05<Samu>DistanceMaxPlusManhattan(source_tile, st->xy) / 2
08:05<Samu>DistanceMaxPlusManhattan(source_tile, st->xy) / 2, days_in_transit, cargo_type
08:06<Samu>DistanceMaxPlusManhattan(source_tile, st->xy) / 2, days_in_transit, cargo_type)
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08:07<Samu>DistanceManhattan(source_tile, st->xy)
08:08<Samu>DistanceMaxPlusManhattan(source_tile, st->xy) / 2
08:08<Samu>that's more like it
08:11<Samu>X(5,8), Y(10,12)
08:12<Samu>@calc abs(5-10) + abs(12-8)
08:12<@DorpsGek>Samu: 9
08:14<Samu>@calc (2 * abs(5-10) + abs(12-8)) / 2
08:14<@DorpsGek>Samu: 7
08:16<Samu>abs(8-12)
08:16<Samu>@calc abs(8-12)
08:16<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4
08:16<Samu>@calc abs(12-8)
08:16<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4
08:16<Samu>:)
08:17<Samu>X(5,8), Y(5,12)
08:17<Samu>@calc abs(5-5) + abs(8-12)
08:17<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4
08:18<Samu>@calc (abs(5-5) + 2 * abs(8-12)) / 2
08:18<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4
08:18<Samu>exactly
10:02<Samu>@calc (4 * 4) / 3 + 1
10:02<@DorpsGek>Samu: 6.33333333333
10:03<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 + 192 * 1) / 256
10:03<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4.75
10:03<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 + 192 * 1) / 192
10:03<@DorpsGek>Samu: 6.33333333333
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10:05<Samu>@calc 2 * 4 + (3 * 1) / 2
10:05<@DorpsGek>Samu: 9.5
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10:15<Samu>I know my formula is correct, but I don't know how to explain it
10:17<Samu>@calc 192 * 4
10:17<@DorpsGek>Samu: 768
10:17<Samu>@calc 256 * 4
10:17<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1024
10:17<Samu>@calc 256 * 3
10:17<@DorpsGek>Samu: 768
10:18<Samu>a tile has 16 sublocations
10:18<Samu>a diagonal'ed tile has 8
10:19<Samu>@calc 192 * 8 * 4
10:19<@DorpsGek>Samu: 6144
10:19<Samu>@calc 256 * 16 * 3
10:19<@DorpsGek>Samu: 12288
10:22<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1175673#p1175673 this is partially wrong. a vehicle moves faster in diagonals
10:23<Samu>and _dp_ formula does not account for that
10:27<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * 4 + 192 * 1 * 3) / (256 * 4)
10:27<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4.5625
10:27<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * 3 + 192 * 1 * 4) / (256 * 4)
10:27<@DorpsGek>Samu: 3.75
10:27<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * 4 + 192 * 1 * 3) / (256 * 3)
10:27<@DorpsGek>Samu: 6.08333333333
10:27<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * 4 + 192 * 1 * 3) / (192 * 3)
10:27<@DorpsGek>Samu: 8.11111111111
10:28<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * 4 + 192 * 1 * 3) / (192 * 4)
10:28<@DorpsGek>Samu: 6.08333333333
10:28<Samu>how did I get 7 :(
10:29<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * 3 + 192 * 1 * 4) / (192 * 4)
10:29<@DorpsGek>Samu: 5
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10:30<Samu>it's funny, I fail at math, and yet I reached the conclusion that DistanceMaxPlusManhattan(source_tile, st->xy) / 2 is the right formula
10:31<Samu>I proved it before, but I can't prove it now
10:43<Samu>https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1473465600#1473530703
10:44<Samu>right, but what did I come up with?
10:44<Samu>how did I got to it
10:44<Samu>get
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11:05<Samu>@calc (3 * 4 / 2) + 1
11:05<@DorpsGek>Samu: 7
11:05<Samu>((3 * minu(dx, dy)) / 2) + Delta(dx, dy);
11:07<Sacro>Samu: I'm english
11:07<Sacro>As english as apple pie
11:07<Samu>@calc 4 / 2 + 5
11:07<@DorpsGek>Samu: 7
11:07<Samu>min(dx, dy) / 2 + max(dx, dy)
11:07<Samu>hi Sacro
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11:49<Samu>dx = x0 - x1
11:49<Samu>dy = y0 - y1
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13:31<Wolf01>o/
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13:44<Samu>@calc (192 * 4 * (6 / 4) + 192 * 1 * (4 / 4)) / 192
13:44<@DorpsGek>Samu: 7
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13:58<yellyFish>Hi. I have been trying to debug a problem i have with a server. When i connect to it and the map loads i get supper laggy and cpu goes to 100%. I have use the debug option and the only error i can notice is a 'unhandled vehicle variable 0x61, type 0x0'. I would like to know if there is a way to know which newgrf is doing this. I would make a github issue but i get this problem using JGR patch
13:58<yellyFish>and i am not sure if this is a particular problem with the patch or openttd itself.
14:01<nielsm>best I can think of would be using a (further) patched game version that prints the grfid along with the error message
14:03<yellyFish>I'll try to patch it myself
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14:19<yellyFish>how can i test this without changing revision number so it let's me connect to the server?
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14:26<Samu>I'm sad. I came up with the right formula and now I can't figure out how I got to it
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14:35<Samu>@calc (3/4)*(3/2)
14:35<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1.125
14:36<Samu>@calc (3/4)*(3/2) * 256
14:36<@DorpsGek>Samu: 288
14:37<Samu>@calc (4/4)*(3/2) * 256
14:37<@DorpsGek>Samu: 384
14:37<Samu>@calc (4/4)*(3/2) * 256 / 2
14:38<@DorpsGek>Samu: 192
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14:41<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * (3/4)*(3/2) + 256 * 1 * ((4/4)*(3/2)/2)
14:41<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
14:43<Samu>@calc (256 * 4 * (3 / 4) * ( 3 / 2 ) + 256 * 1 * ((4 / 4)*(3 / 2) / 2)) / 192
14:43<@DorpsGek>Samu: 7
14:43<yellyFish>forget what i said. i can test this with a local savefile of the server
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15:04<Samu>@calc min(5, 4)
15:04<@DorpsGek>Samu: 4
15:04<Wolf01>Holy shit Samu
15:05<Samu>just testing capabilities of calculator, it's better than mine
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15:36<Samu>(256 * 16 * (3 / 4) * (3 / 2) * min(abs(5 - 10), abs(8 - 12)) + 256 * 8 * (4 / 4) * (3 / 2) * abs(abs(5 - 10) - abs(8 - 12))) / (256 * 8 * (3 / 2))
15:36<Samu>@calc (256 * 16 * (3 / 4) * (3 / 2) * min(abs(5 - 10), abs(8 - 12)) + 256 * 8 * (4 / 4) * (3 / 2) * abs(abs(5 - 10) - abs(8 - 12))) / (256 * 8 * (3 / 2))
15:36<@DorpsGek>Samu: 7
15:37<Samu>yes, i did it
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15:41<yellyFish>is anyone here that understands how the newgrf engine works? I found some lines that i am not sure are correct
15:56<yellyFish>if i use GetGRFID() i should get the newgrf id of that vehicle right? i get a number but doesn't seem to match with any of the newgrf loaded
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>have you tried posting your savegame in JGR patchpack thread in the forum?
16:13<yellyFish>I have not actually. I wanted to find out by myself first if it was a newgrf problem or a patchpack problem. I guess i'll do that anyway.
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17:04<frosch123>yellyFish: newgrf id are printed in hex in big endian
17:04<frosch123>or little endian, depending how you look at it :p
17:04<frosch123>so you may have to reverse the byte order
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19:08<yellyFish>didn't think of that. i found one newgrf that matches
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19:58<Samu>what a fluke
19:58<Samu>the variable days_in_transit in GetTransportedGoodsIncome
19:59<Samu>transit_days*
19:59<Samu>the real days in transit is that value * 2.5
20:00<Samu>https://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Delivery_payment_rates this wiki is wrong then
20:02<ST2>it's a wiki, edit it ^^
20:02<Samu>Early Delivery Time (days) and Late Delivery Time (days) are all to be *2.5
20:04<Samu>@calc 1/2.5
20:04<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.4
20:04<Samu>oh, nevermind
20:08<Samu>Distance is measured between the name-labeled tiles of the stations, not from the industries or by vehicle distance traveled. It is computed by adding the differences in x and y tiles (manhattan distance), not straight-line distance.
20:18<Samu>for every 185 ticks, the transported cargo ages and transit_days++ happens
20:18<Samu>so misleading to call it transit_days
20:26<Samu>let me think. I have 2 trains transporting the same cargo from the same origin at O(0,0). Train A goes from O(0,0) to A(25,25). Train B goes from O(0,0) to B(50,0).
20:26<Samu>Train A takes 30 days to travel. Train B takes 20 days to travel.
20:27<Samu>How to make the profit of Train B to match that of Train A over the same period of time?
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20:34<Samu>Money GetTransportedGoodsIncome(uint num_pieces, uint dist, byte transit_days, CargoID cargo_type)
20:34<Samu>with DistanceManhattan, uint dist = 50
20:35<Samu>transit_days is, for Train A, 30/2.5 = 12
20:36<Samu>transit_days is, for Train B, 20/2.5 = 8
20:36<Samu>pieces, let's assume 30 pieces
20:36<Samu>same cargo
20:41<Samu>assuming the cargo value didn't decay for both trains, the income per delivery is 30 * 50 = 1500
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20:44<Samu>per year, Train A would make 1500 * 365 / 30 = 18250
20:45<Samu>per year, Train B would make 1500 * 365 / 20 = 27375
20:46<Samu>the goal is to make Train B profit the same as Train A
20:46<ST2>how can you make 1500 * 365 / 20
20:47<ST2>equal to 1500 * 365 / 30
20:47<ST2>?
20:47<Samu>that is what I'm trying to come up with
20:47<Samu>that is the question
20:48<ST2>really?! notice the "365 / 30" and "365 / 20"
20:48<Samu>the distance has to be measured differently
20:49<ST2>so, why payements must be the same?
20:50<ST2>oh well, you may continue ^^
20:52<Samu>30 * 50 * 365 / 30 = 30 * x * 365 / 20
20:52<Samu>what is the x?
20:56<ST2>you're really bad at math
20:57<ST2>18250 = 547,5 * x
20:57<ST2>x= 18250/547,5
21:00<Samu>@calc 18250/547.5
21:00<@DorpsGek>Samu: 33.3333333333
21:00<ST2>wait, you were really not getting there?! or was a rethorical question?
21:00<ST2>man, I used my computer calculator for it
21:00<Samu>33.3333 is the value I'm looking for :)
21:00<ST2>why spam here?
21:02<Samu>looks like the value I was expecting (37.5) was wrong
21:02<ST2>man, I used my computer calculator for it
21:02<ST2>why spam here?
21:02<Samu>i'm thinking, not spamming
21:02<ST2>is that a hard question for you?
21:02<ST2>(oh crap, made another question :|)
21:03<ST2>(window logo key + R) -> calc
21:03<ST2>ENTER
21:03<ST2>there is a calculator
21:05<Samu>Must come up with a formula that makes distance from O to A = 50 and distance from O to B = 33.3333
21:05<ST2>and I just gave you a way to YOUR computer calculator
21:06<Samu>I have it open, too
21:06<ST2>and O (letter) is not 0 (number)
21:06<Samu>O for Origin
21:06<ST2>and A is Astination?
21:07<Samu>Destination A
21:07<ST2>so, why not call it D
21:07<Samu>there's Destination B
21:07<ST2>as Origin B
21:08<Samu>oh, i made a mistake
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21:08<Samu>O to A = 33.333 and O to B = 50
21:08<ST2>will take a while till you cover the whole alphabet
21:10<Samu>actually i made various mistakes already, grr :(
21:13<Samu>Train A goes from O(0,0) to A(50,0) and takes 30 days. Train B goes from O(0,0) to B(25,25) and takes 20 days.
21:13<Samu>using DistanceManhattan, the distance OA = 50, and OB = 50
21:14<ST2>calculate O(0,0) to A(50,0) and O(0,0) to B(25,25) for 20 and 30 days
21:15<ST2>is the value equal?
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21:16<Samu>I need to figure how to make OA = 50, and OB = 33.3333 using the same formula for the distance
21:17<ST2>bird distance?
21:17<Samu>no, it can't be distancemanhattan
21:17<ST2>because looks like pitagoras theorem
21:17<Samu>it can't be that either
21:20<Samu>I was convinced this was it: 3 * min(dx, dy) / 2 + |dx-dy|
21:21<Samu>but this gets me OB = 37.5
21:24<Samu>@calc 3 * min(abs(25 - 0), abs(25 - 0)) / 2 + abs(abs(25 - 0) - abs(25 - 0))
21:24<@DorpsGek>Samu: 37.5
21:24<Samu>and no, windows calculator can't do this
21:25<ST2>windows apps -> scientific calculator
21:25<ST2>there's lots of them free
21:26<ST2>and yes, those can do it
21:28<Samu>@calc 3 * min(abs(50 - 0), abs(0 - 0)) / 2 + abs(abs(50 - 0) - abs(0 - 0))
21:28<@DorpsGek>Samu: 50
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21:34<Samu>4 * min(dx, dy) / 3 + |dx-dy|
21:34<Samu>it's funny, _dp_ was right all long
21:35<Samu>and I was wrong, utterly convinced myself I was right, and I wasn't
21:35<Samu>forgive me _dp_
21:36<Samu>@calc 4 * min(abs(50 - 0), abs(0 - 0)) / 3 + abs(abs(50 - 0) - abs(0 - 0))
21:36<@DorpsGek>Samu: 50
21:36<Samu>@calc 4 * min(abs(25 - 0), abs(25 - 0)) / 3 + abs(abs(25 - 0) - abs(25 - 0))
21:36<@DorpsGek>Samu: 33.3333333333
21:37<Samu>yep... _dp_
21:37<Samu>u're the man
21:37<ST2>sadly _dp_ isn't on, same as CM servers (he's owner)
21:37<Samu>if u ever get to read this
21:37<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1175673#p1175673
21:37<Samu>there's his formula
21:40<ST2>yup, he was right in 2016, same as today
21:41<ST2>he grabbed the work of LL servers that tried to fix somethings, and even Nova after
21:41<ST2>guess people are quitting when hitting devs wall
21:42<Samu>i gotta go sleep. see you later
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21:49<ST2>and I guess the repercussion of openttdcoop have 1 player, for only 1 hour(!) last week
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 05 00:00:11 2018