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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-10-05

---Logopened Fri Oct 05 00:00:11 2018
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05:52<Samu>@calc 4 * min(abs(3088 - 4088), abs(1003 - 4)) / 3 + abs(abs(3088 - 4088) - abs(1003 - 4))
05:52<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1333
05:54<Samu>@calc 4 * min(abs(4087 - 4087), abs(16 - 2015)) / 3 + abs(abs(4087 - 4087) - abs(16 - 2015))
05:54<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1999
05:58<Samu>30 * 1999 * 365 / 594 = 30 * x * 365 / 396
05:59<Samu>@calc (30 * 1999 * 365 / 594) / (30 * 365 / 396)
05:59<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1332.66666667
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09:26<Samu>CPU (v5) - bankrupted 04-2049
09:26<Samu>a few months away from 100 years
09:26<Samu>really tough luck
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10:22<Samu>LordAro: hi, are you around? Am trying to do what you asked me
10:22<Samu>may need help
10:28<LordAro>Samu: wait 3ish hours
10:28<LordAro>but by all means try yourself :p
10:30<Samu>ok, cya later
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10:56<dihedral>hey hey
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11:23<Samu>is it normaliZe or normaliSe ?
11:23<Samu>who's english enough to know?
11:24<nielsm>do you want to write british or american english?
11:25<nielsm>british tends to prefer S spellings and american tends to prefer Z spellings
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11:25<nielsm>(chris sawyer is from england so transport tycoon is originally british english)
11:27<Samu>ok with S then
11:27<nielsm>and the main translation file (english.txt) for ottd is also british english
11:43<Samu>uint DistanceTransportedGoodsIncome(TileIndex, TileIndex); ///< Normalised distance which makes diagonal and straight directions equally profitable
11:43<Samu>good english?
11:44<nielsm>probably fine
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11:51<Samu>in the end... this distance still feels insufficient due to cargo aging
11:51<Samu>diagonal distances will still benefit from it
11:51<Samu>but not as blatantly as before
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11:53<Samu>not ready for a pull request :(
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12:00<nielsm>but why is it even a problem? I know the TT map doesn't exactly follow euclidian geometry but I think most players would still expect the pythagorean theorem to hold
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>uhm what? the pythagorean theorem is the first thing that goes out the window with non-euclidean geometry
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12:24<Eddi|zuHause>in particular, you need a norm (a distance calculation with an orgin point) that fulfills the parallelogram equation
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>which is pretty much hopeless if you're not using the euclidean norm
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12:50<Samu>git rebase -i "what goes here?"
12:50<nielsm>not necessarily anything
12:51<nielsm>git rebase -i master
12:51<nielsm>is usually a good bet
12:51<nielsm>not giving a rebase target makes git take a guess, which is usually where it last diverges from another branch
12:55<Samu>When you save and exit the editor, Git rewinds you back to the last commit in that list and drops you on the command line with the following message:
12:56<Samu>how am I doing edits?
12:56<nielsm>with your regular editor
12:56<Samu>visual studio?
12:57<nielsm>I assume you're talking about the "edit" action
12:57<Samu>but how do I get to that point in history?
12:57<Samu>how to make the directory
12:57<Samu>erm, confused
12:57<Samu>do I switch to a temporary branch?
12:58<nielsm>you type the command
12:58<nielsm>git rebase -i master
12:58<nielsm>git opens a text editor in your console where you are asked to set up what you want to change
12:58<nielsm>by listing all the commits in history between the rebase target (master) and now
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12:59<Samu>i have that in the editor, am about to exit
12:59<nielsm>each line in the file has a command, a revision hash, and a commit message
12:59<nielsm>yes you save (ctrl+o, enter) and exit (ctrl+x)
12:59<nielsm>then git begins the actions you specified
13:00<nielsm>takes the first four revisions as-is (because you gave the "pick" command)
13:00<nielsm>applies the fifth (first "edit") and then it drops you at the commandline
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13:00<nielsm>telling you that you can now begin editing the files as normal
13:00<nielsm>then you make your additional code changes (with visual studio or whatever)
13:01<nielsm>compile to test that you didn't make any mistakes
13:01<nielsm>and when you're sure you've made the changes for that one revision, you use the command:
13:01<nielsm>git add changedfile1.cpp changedfile2.h
13:01<nielsm>(whatever filenames you changed)
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13:01<nielsm>and then:
13:01<nielsm>git commit --amend
13:02<nielsm>that modifies the commit you originally had at that point
13:02<Samu>uh, that's complicated
13:02<Samu>add files?
13:02<Samu>i can't overwrite?
13:02<nielsm>"git add" means "prepare the changes in these files to be committed"
13:03<nielsm>(technically, add the changes to the git index)
13:03<Samu>the guide is telling me to use --amend
13:04<nielsm>that's for commit
13:04<Samu>let's try
13:04<nielsm>the basic git workflow for committing changes is that you first use "git add" to stage the changes, then you use "git commit" to actually create a new revision
13:05<nielsm>if you mess up, git also has a fancy feature called "git reflog", which tells you all previous revision hashes you've touched, and will let you recover from big mistakes
13:06<Samu>I prefer the recycle bin
13:06<Samu>and get repository again
13:06<nielsm>just never delete your working tree, if you make a mistake rebasing you can recover with the reflog
13:09<Samu>stupid visual studio sometimes creates some temporary files I have to right click ignore
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13:10<Samu>according to visual studio I am in a (no branch)
13:10<Samu>i suppose this is where I want to be?
13:12<Samu>GitHub Desktop says I'm on a Detached HEAD
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>i'm probably "doing it wrong", but i tend to do "git commit -a" and skip the "add" step...
13:13<Samu>visual studio is building
13:13<nielsm>I'm a control freak so I always add manually :P
13:14<nielsm>and do "git status" and "git diff" way too often
13:14<LordAro>^ paranoia about adding the wrong thing
13:14<Samu>built, it runs
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>means your changes are not elementary enough, and you're retroactively trying to separate them
13:15<Samu>ok, i got a 1 changed file
13:16<Samu>let me reread
13:17<Samu>git add src/aircraft_cmd.cpp ?
13:17<Samu>or \
13:17<Samu>I dunno what Git Bash uses
13:17<nielsm>/ is fine
13:18<nielsm>you can use / path separator most places in windows, really
13:18<Samu>ok, it was added, not really sure what happened, no message at all
13:18<Samu>but i presume it was added
13:19<nielsm>"git status" will tell you what files are in the index
13:19<nielsm>(and it should also remind you that you are in the middle of an interactive rebase)
13:20<Samu>uhm, i see this
13:21<nielsm>that means the changes were staged
13:21<nielsm>you can also use "git diff --cached" to see a full diff of what will be committed before doing it
13:21<nielsm>but you're ready to "git commit --amend" now
13:21<nielsm>it'll then let you edit the commit message, but if you don't have any changes to it just exit the editor to do the amend
13:22<Eddi|zuHause><nielsm> you can use / path separator most places in windows, really <-- except in places where windows cmd programs assume / means the start of a parameter (where linux uses - or --)
13:23<nielsm>and if for whatever reason you're into raw NT paths it won't work there either :P
13:25<Samu>one step at a time
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>oh i pity the poor soul who degrades that far :p
13:26<Samu>interesting, that was not what I expected to see
13:28<nielsm>the original changes of the commit you're altering are already committed
13:28<nielsm>so you're only seeing your changes to it
13:28<nielsm>when you commit --amend it'll merge the two changesets
13:29<Samu>aha, i see
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13:29<Samu>now git rebase --continue?
13:30<nielsm>after the amend is done
13:31<Samu>yep, i'm on the next one, visual studio again
13:32<Samu>github desktop is really useful here
13:33<Samu>or i could just look at this
13:36<andythenorth>I assume I can't return CB_NO_RESULT when using sprite compositing in nml?
13:37<andythenorth>action 2 always has to resolve to a realsprite?
13:37<Samu>can I use git commit --amend --no-edit
13:37<nielsm>I can't answer that question
13:38<nielsm>Samu: probably yes
13:38<andythenorth>nielsm: mine or samu's :P
13:38<nielsm>andythenorth yours was the no-answer one :)
13:38<andythenorth>that's ok :)
13:38<andythenorth>I've been around newgrf for 10 years, I should know :P
13:38<nielsm>instead, you can have a short birb video
13:39<andythenorth>nice birbs
13:39<nielsm>right until they aren't nice!!
13:39<andythenorth>they look really happy
13:39<andythenorth>due to the shape of their face
13:39<andythenorth>even when they're fighting
13:40<Samu>oh, number 8 file is another
13:41<frosch123>andythenorth: you need a spritegroup with zero sets, not sure whether CB_FAILED would do that; but CB_NO_RESULT is definitely incorrect
13:42<andythenorth>frosch123: currently I just resolve to a realsprite with empty blue boxes
13:43<andythenorth>which absolutely works, just seems inefficient :)
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to have misplaced the "A","B" and "C" parts of my movie archives
13:47<andythenorth>there is a smart reply to that
13:47<andythenorth>but I didn't think of it
13:49<frosch123>andythenorth: "spriteset(empty) {}" and "return empty" may work
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly does CB_FAILED resolve to anyway?
13:50<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i can see, all of alf gone is bad; but what is important about C?
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it's not that bad, only movie archive, not series archive
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13:51<Samu>the end!
13:51<Samu>pull origin
13:52<Samu>the last command to use is how?
13:52<Samu>oh i dont want to pull, i want to push with force
13:52<nielsm>after all actions in your interactive rebase are done, you're done ;)
13:52<nielsm>yes, force push to your fork on github
13:53<Samu>git push --force ?
13:53<nielsm>github automatically updates the PR with the changed commits
13:53<Samu>ok, done
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>random question: what qualifies 4/3 as a "good" approximation of sqrt(2)?
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13:59<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's better than 3/2 and less complicated than 7/5? and it has a power of two somewhere
14:00<andythenorth>frosch123: spriteset(empty) {} trips a syntax error :)
14:00<andythenorth>Syntax error, unexpected token "}"
14:00<andythenorth>this isn't a very interesting issue to solve :)
14:00<frosch123>if you add a [] between the {} ?
14:00<frosch123>so you have a complete collection of all parentheses types?
14:01<frosch123>and only weird languages do < >
14:01<andythenorth>no syntax error
14:01<andythenorth>but broken sprites (the classic question mark)
14:03<andythenorth>empty png is fine :)
14:03<andythenorth>I am finding good uses for sprite compositing
14:03<Samu>4/3 is because 256/192
14:03<andythenorth>but when use of layers is conditional, it can be a bit fiddly to handle
14:04<andythenorth>it's all worked nicely though now
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>"good" as in "clever, but next year we're calling it BAD FEATURE" or actually good?
14:04<LordAro>Samu: yay!
14:04<andythenorth>good as in, efficient on not repeating hand-drawn sprites needlessly
14:04<andythenorth>maintenance + quality good
14:04<andythenorth>but actually the compile to achieve it is quite convoluted
14:04<andythenorth>it strings together 4 different subsytems :P
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>i'd have said "sustainable", but
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>(well, i'd question the validity of a "linear" extrapolation in that graph)
14:08<Samu>this thing is funny to watch
14:08<Samu>your compilers are utterly slow
14:08<Samu>or at least visual studio do it faster
14:08<LordAro>it's probably got less cores than you
14:09<LordAro>and it does it completely from scratch
14:10<Samu>not my fault
14:13<andythenorth>most of our production VMs are much slower than our developer laptops
14:13<andythenorth>(at work)
14:13<andythenorth>oof hg is not git, again
14:14<andythenorth>one day I'll get around to switching
14:15<Samu>1m38s to build
14:15<Samu>ah, a warning
14:15<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Warning C4267 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data openttd D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\src\tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp 719
14:17<LordAro>is that code you've edited?
14:17<LordAro>if not, ignore it
14:17<Samu>no, i didn't edit
14:18<Samu>_cleared_object_areas[coa_index].first_tile = old_first_tile;
14:18<Samu>it's official code
14:23<Samu>it's complaining about coa_index
14:24<Samu>size_t coa_index = coa - _cleared_object_areas.Begin();
14:25<LordAro>ah yeah, SmallVector uses unit as an indexing type
14:26<LordAro>that'll get fixed by #6817, if it ever gets finished
14:26<LordAro>uses uint*
14:29<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so pantographs must vary by position in consist? :P
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your definition of "must"
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14:30<andythenorth>it's not hard to add a few more switches
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>it would be a nice detail
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>that 99% of the players never notice
14:30<andythenorth>what was the pattern?
14:30<andythenorth>assume A and B pantographs
14:30<andythenorth>and up/down
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>1 engine: aB
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>2 engines: AbaB
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>more engines: (Ab)*bA
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>more engines: (Ab)*aB
14:32<andythenorth>so is it actually: if last in consist aB else Ab ?
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>seems so
14:32<andythenorth>pretty trivial then
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>next is detecting what constitutes an "engine"
14:33<andythenorth>I was going to rely on same ID
14:34<andythenorth>there aren't enough twin-pantograph electric engines to worry about combinations
14:34<andythenorth>oof, USA has different procedure :P
14:34<andythenorth>that is a co-incidental find
14:35<andythenorth>they are single pantograph though
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>well i'm more surprised that they actually have electric freight trains at all
14:36<andythenorth>it's not common
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, if nml supported procedure calls, the "what constitutes an engine" check could be a use case for that
14:38<andythenorth>within horse, I can just do it by ID
14:38<andythenorth>I already do other things
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose "position in same-id chain" is enough for most actual use cases
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14:56<andythenorth>hi Wolf01
14:57<andythenorth>ha ha
14:58<andythenorth>I intended to link this seriously
14:58<andythenorth>but the XKCD :P
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15:21<andythenorth>quite a bit of this around eh
15:21<andythenorth>seems to be a topic in my twitter at least
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15:26<andythenorth>this is worth a read
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15:36<andythenorth>it's peter1138
15:37<LordAro>speaking of OSS devs getting burnt out, peter1138 should review some PRs
15:37<LordAro>(much hugs to all devs)
15:38<andythenorth>we should have a 'probably fine' branch
15:38<andythenorth>which is the feeder to stable
15:38<@peter1138>I could maintain a branch in my github "fork" but... then I'd need to maintain it.
15:39<LordAro>andythenorth: that's supposed to be master
15:39<andythenorth>I could maintain a branch, but I've been programming for 35 years, and I'm still not good
15:39<LordAro>unfortunately, the lack of nightlies has meant testing has rather dried up
15:39<andythenorth>still, at least I'm working on it :P
15:40<andythenorth>samu has rekt the PR count :(
15:40<andythenorth>we were winning
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15:45<LordAro>andythenorth: good reads, thanks for sharing
15:46<andythenorth>lot of guilt in OSS
15:46<andythenorth>or potential guilt
15:46<andythenorth>better to have fun
15:46<andythenorth>I was thinking about just closing PRs that go nowhere after 3 months
15:47<andythenorth>'sorry you were unlucky'
15:47<andythenorth>OTOH my toys are out of the pram that NRT has died :P
15:47<andythenorth>go figure :P
15:49<@peter1138>Does it merge yet?
15:49<andythenorth>Wolf01 ? o_O
15:50<LordAro>the PR doesn't
15:50<LordAro>andythenorth's branch tho :p
15:50<@peter1138>So it needs rebasing.
15:51<LordAro>oh yeah, map bits have moved around
15:52<@peter1138>Was the last thing I did for that.
15:53<@peter1138>So it's rebased to after the map bits got moved.
15:53<LordAro>that's probably what's needed
15:53<@peter1138>And then patched to move its own bits :)
15:54<LordAro>andythenorth: shove peter1138's branch on top of yours
15:54<andythenorth>didn't I do all that already?
15:54<@peter1138>I dunno if anything else has happened in the past 2 months.
15:54<@peter1138>I dunno.
15:55<LordAro>i just tried to rebase, and ran into map bit issues, so i guess not
15:55<@peter1138>No, you didn't.
15:55<andythenorth>June 24th
15:55<@peter1138>Check my link!
15:55<@peter1138>I updated at the end of July.
15:55<andythenorth>was I away? :P
15:55<andythenorth>I missed that
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15:56<@peter1138>It ws 4 minutes ago.
15:56<andythenorth>nah I mean in July :)
15:56<andythenorth>I'd have updated the PR if I'd noticed
15:56<@peter1138>Oh, I dunno. I did paste it at the time.
15:57<andythenorth>oof so before I fuck up the git
15:57<andythenorth>what exactly do I need to do?
15:57<andythenorth>otherwise I end up just deleting All Things
15:58<LordAro>git checkout peter nrt-block-rebase; git push -f andy nrt-block
15:58<LordAro>replace remote names as appropriate
15:59<andythenorth>will that replace changes you made here LordAro?
15:59<andythenorth>I squashed some extra commits into "Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)"
15:59<andythenorth>don't know what, because history :P
15:59*LordAro does not remember making any changes to NRT
16:00<LordAro>but yes
16:00<andythenorth>diff against here probably tells
16:02<andythenorth>I'm not just going to bin them off, they probably fixed something :P
16:04<andythenorth>Wolf01: what failed when you tried to rebase NRT?
16:04<LordAro>if it helps, nrt-block-rebased also fails to rebase :p
16:05<@peter1138>There were a couple of fixes after I guess.
16:05<andythenorth>can we just fix that, declare peter1138 is much better programmer than me, then merge his branch?
16:05<LordAro>(and saveload.cpp, but that's just the version number)
16:14*andythenorth invents a new railtype
16:15<andythenorth>that can be modified by vehicles passing over it
16:15<andythenorth>for silly hax
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16:59<andythenorth>oof sleep
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17:29<Samu>ur feelings about this:
17:29<Samu>pondering if i create a pull request
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17:31<LordAro>Samu: i like it
17:31<LordAro>not sure about b) though
17:31<LordAro>giving users the ability to do things wrong...
17:31<LordAro>though i think special casing it would be worse
17:37<Samu>currently helicopters can only be replaced with helicopters
17:37<Samu>so... hmm yeah
17:38<Samu>i think autoreplace code handles this well enough
17:39<Samu>there's CanVehicleUseStation checks somewhere in there, so it fails the autoreplace
17:40<LordAro>sounds fine then
17:41<Samu>my code isn't perfect, i am using magic numbers in a situation
17:41<Samu>dunno how to solve it
17:42<Samu>+ case 0: // All aircraft types
17:42<Samu>+ case 1: // Same aircraft type
17:42<Samu>+ case 2: // Helicopter
17:43<LordAro>enum, probably
17:44<LordAro>or some existing aircraft type thing
17:44<Samu>let me create a branch on my repository with this code
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17:48<@peter1138>Hmm, X-Plane ran out of memory. I have 32GB...
17:57<LordAro>peter1138: did you try to load the entire plane?
17:58<LordAro>Samu: you could reuse the STR_ constants
17:58<LordAro>instead of 0..4
18:00<Samu>ok, let me try
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18:07<Samu>ugh, i dont think it's gonna work
18:08<Samu>@calc 0xBD3
18:08<@DorpsGek>Samu: 3027
18:08<Samu>nooo, should be 0
18:09<nielsm>are the strings in order in the translation file?
18:10<nielsm>because you can just offset them with + or - in the code based on the first then
18:11<Samu>they are in order
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18:15<LordAro>Samu: ...why did you expect it to be 0?
18:16<LordAro>why does it matter?
18:18<Samu>the StringID 3027 should be case 0, 3028 -> 1, 3029 -> 2, 3030 -> 3, 3031 -> 4
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18:18<LordAro>right, so use the first to offset them all
18:19<LordAro>it's quite commonly done - you can see the "must be in this order" comments in the lang file
18:19<Samu>i really need the value to be 0
18:19<LordAro>"...need to be in this order"
18:19<Samu>and the string really needs to be what it is
18:20<Samu>i'm confused
18:20<LordAro>sel_air_type - STR_REPLACE_ALL_AIRCRAFT_TYPES
18:21<Samu>sel_air_type ranges from 0 to 4
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18:21<Samu>0 - 3027 = -3027
18:21<Samu>sounds wrong
18:22<Samu>case -3027 :(
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18:23<Samu>got it, let me try
18:25<Samu>switch (this->sel_air_type + STR_REPLACE_ALL_AIRCRAFT_TYPES) {
18:25<Samu>I think you meant a +
18:27<Samu>yep, it works
18:27<LordAro>i was expecting sel_air_type to have the 3028+ values
18:27<LordAro>but yeah, that works too
18:28<Samu>it's a selector
18:28<Samu>uhm from a dropdown
18:28<Samu>i should stop stating the obvious
18:29<Samu>selection 0 -> all aircraft types
18:30<Samu>the reason I can't start from 3027
18:31<Samu>is because this->GetWidget<NWidgetCore>(WID_RV_AIRCRAFT_TYPE_DROPDOWN)->widget_data = _autoreplace_aircraft_type_dropdown[sel_air_type];
18:31<Samu>I use it inside [sel_air_type]
18:32<LordAro>there are a few ways of doing it, if it works, that's probabl yfine
18:36<Samu>now, the issue about point B
18:38<Samu>using pikka savegame :p
18:38<Samu>so i tried to replace helicopter with a airbus
18:39<Samu>the heli does visit the hangar, and silently fails to be replaced
18:39<Samu>no message is displayed
18:39<Samu>what do you think about that
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18:40<LordAro>isn't there a message when vehicles fail to replace for other reasons (money, etc) ?
18:40<LordAro>consistency is probably more important
18:40<Samu>there would be, if the hangar was of an airport
18:41<Samu>in this case, the airbus is not even available in helistation hangar
18:41<Samu>let me try with airport
18:45<Samu>the vehicle that can't go to all stations is not the helicopter, but the airbus
18:45<Samu>kinda confusing
18:48<Samu>maybe instead of vehicle, it could say engine
18:48<Samu>or I dunno
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18:50<Samu>or go back to what it was before
18:50<Samu>helicopters only replaced with helicopters
18:50<Samu>but that would defeat the point of this patch :(
18:51<Samu>pretty much
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20:54<Samu>The nightly database backup is currently running, and the site is unavailable as a result.
20:54<Samu>bah terrible timing
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22:20<Samu>what the heck is this regression thing?
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 06 00:00:13 2018