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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-10-27

---Logopened Sat Oct 27 00:00:43 2018
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02:01<nielsm>@logs
02:01<@DorpsGek>nielsm: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
02:18<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #6945: Fix e00908f: Visual C++ 2015 compile error https://git.io/fx97B
02:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fNanB
02:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fNanB
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03:13<andythenorth>o/
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03:28*nielsm is trying to do some of the indcargonum cleanup planned 20 days ago
03:28<andythenorth>:)
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03:29<nielsm>andythenorth: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6867#discussion_r223207424
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03:45<andythenorth>nielsm: so 4 options? o_O
03:45<nielsm>maybe?
03:46<nielsm>which is more sensible to work with as a newgrf author?
03:48*andythenorth rubbing head
03:49<andythenorth>http://wiki.c2.com/?WouldntStartFromHere
03:50<andythenorth>nielsm: (I haven't had breakfast yet) we're talking about the replacements for industry props 12 and 13, right?
03:50<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Production_multipliers_.2812.2C_13.29
03:51<nielsm>no the production callback
03:51<andythenorth>ah I might need to reset my context :)
03:51<andythenorth>the PR is long now :)
03:52<andythenorth>so this is about prod cb format, version 2?
03:57<nielsm>yes, I think you mentioned that the indirection of cargo types in production cb version 1 was useless complication over version 0
03:57<nielsm>so I was wondering if it would make sense to add two new versions, both with "unlimited" cargo type lists, but one with and one without indirection
03:58<andythenorth>I need to think about it a bit more
03:58<andythenorth>there is an interesting case where the number of cargos is unknown in FIRS
03:58<andythenorth>currently the prod cb is fine with that
04:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #6867: 16 cargo types in and out for industries https://git.io/fN03K
04:12<andythenorth>nielsm: I need to re-educate myself on prod cb and the options in the PR
04:12<nielsm>heh
04:12<andythenorth>conventionally, prod cb is used with version 1, amounts in registers
04:12<andythenorth>version 0 is ~useless
04:12<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6867: 16 cargo types in and out for industries https://git.io/fx9FX
04:18<nielsm>okay if version 0 is effectively useless then I'm not going to make a non-indirect version with unlimited cargo lists
04:23<andythenorth>anyone sensible is going to stuff the values in registers
04:23<andythenorth>not switch a million branches to different fixed results :)
04:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #6945: Fix e00908f: Visual C++ 2015 compile error https://git.io/fx9FA
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04:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #6945: Fix e00908f: Visual C++ 2015 compile error https://git.io/fx97B
04:33<andythenorth>nielsm: so does the direction / indirection question even hold for prod cb?
04:33<andythenorth>it's just a list of up to 16 registers?
04:33<andythenorth>hmm, no it has to be 2 lists of exactly 16 registers, to be precise
04:35<nielsm>it's two lists of fixed-but-specified length
04:36<nielsm>Version 02 format: <Sprite-number> * <Length> 02 0A <set-id> <version> <num-inputs> [<input-cargo-1> <subtract-in-1> ...] <num-outputs> [<output-cargo-1> <add-out-1> ...] <again>
04:36<andythenorth>ok
04:36<andythenorth>that works fine
04:36<nielsm>the num-inputs and num-outputs are direct values, not register numbers
04:36<andythenorth>yes
04:36<andythenorth>just do that :)
04:36<andythenorth>simples
04:38<nielsm>and the input-cargo-n and output-cargo-n parameters are cargo ids, also not dynamic
05:00<andythenorth>ah ok
05:00<andythenorth>so if I've understood correctly, they should be register numbers
05:04<andythenorth>I might have misunderstood this when we talked a few months ago
05:04<andythenorth>I recall talking about the format for the static action 0 multiplier prop
05:04<andythenorth>which nobody should ever sensibly use anyway :P
05:04<andythenorth>there was a lot of talk around the format for those props, and how to encode them in nml
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05:06<Wolf01>o/
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06:01<nielsm>hmm, andythenorth the FIRS v4 build I have makes a loading error when I try it
06:02<andythenorth>what's the error? o_O
06:04<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s6yu.png
06:05<nielsm>Unknown Action 0 property 0x0 (sprite 3499)
06:05<nielsm>that's with Extreme mode
06:05<nielsm>it builds a lot of Port industries that produce acid, and nothing else
06:06<nielsm>firs.grf size 464314 bytes, dated 2018-08-13 20:32
06:07<andythenorth>yeah the test was a single industry
06:07<nielsm>ah
06:07<andythenorth>I wonder why it errors
06:09<nielsm>my small oil cargoes test grf still works
06:10<andythenorth>it's liable to be a FIRS bug
06:10<andythenorth>FIRS needs refactored to work properly with 16 cargos
06:11<andythenorth>but it's a moving target between the spec and also the nml patch :)
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06:20<nielsm>right, I'll leave that alone for now and assume it's a problem with the grf and not my code :)
06:22<nielsm>okay still happens with the newer + larger version you posted on sep 10th
06:22<nielsm>so the nml code used to generate it might be wrong, as you note yourself
06:29<andythenorth>most likely it's a broken action 0
06:29<andythenorth>and once we have everything else stable it can be fixed later if needs be
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06:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #6867: 16 cargo types in and out for industries https://git.io/fN03K
06:34<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6867: 16 cargo types in and out for industries https://git.io/fx9pC
06:43<andythenorth>bbl
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06:46<gadago>Ꮤith o∪r IᏒC ɑd serᴠicе you cɑᥒ reɑch a glഠbal aᥙԁіeᥒсе of entreprеᥒеᥙrs аnd feᥒtanyⅼ adԁiϲts witһ ᥱxtraordiᥒɑry ᥱnɡaɡemеᥒt rates! https:∕/ᴡilliaⅿpіtcоck.сⲟm᜵
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06:51<vaizki23>Witһ ⲟᥙr IᏒϹ ɑd sᥱr⋁iϲе уഠ∪ cɑn reɑϲһ а ɡlobаⅼ ɑudiеᥒce οf entreprenᥱurѕ ɑnԁ fеntɑᥒyl aԁdⅰϲts ᴡⅰth еxtraorⅾⅰᥒary ᥱngaɡemеnt ratеsǃ https://wiⅼlⅰɑmⲣіtcock.ϲom⁄
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07:00<Wolf01>Lol, they are evolving... unsuccesfully
07:04<nielsm>not sure it's a good idea to corrupt the url
07:04<nielsm>but whatever
07:06<Wolf01>Exactly
07:08<Wolf01>Mmmh, it looks like oracle is killing java
07:10<LordAro>?
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07:55<Wolf01>https://www.java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp <- LordAro
07:56<LordAro>i'm not sure "ending support for java 8" is quite the same as "killing java"
08:04<Wolf01>I think I'll stick to the LTS, I'm a bit hesitant to switch to new versions of anything in these days, beginning from browsers where they remove features every day, and ending with windows where every big update is a russian roulette
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09:57<Samu>hi
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10:18<andythenorth>o/
10:19<LordAro>is it?
10:20<andythenorth>dunno yet
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12:05<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #6946: Doc: More notes for developers adding new PerformanceElements https://git.io/fxHY1
12:08<nielsm>I don't know if these additions are any help, or if they even make sense :)
12:17<andythenorth>:)
12:19<LordAro>lgtm
12:20<LordAro>easy way to find out about the doxygen codes is to generate it and see what it looks like :p
12:20<nielsm>then I'd have to install doxygen
12:20<LordAro>i suspect there's a few \c(?) that could be added
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12:25<nielsm>hmm okay that wasn't too hard
12:25<nielsm>but that's a LOT of spam running it
12:30<LordAro>lots of missing documentation :)
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12:51<nielsm>okay that's annoying actually, doxygen is intentionally ignoring everything inside the anonymous namespace :(
12:52<LordAro>heh
12:52<LordAro>could be a flag in the config file
12:52<nielsm>but dutifully documenting the static widget layout definitions
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12:55<OMGLag>Hi, where is the reddit channel
12:55<OMGLag>?
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13:00<TopZoozle>How is everyone?
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13:01<ANIKHTOS>hello to all
13:01<TopZoozle>Hello
13:02<LordAro>OMGLag: #/r/openttd i believe
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13:05<ANIKHTOS>long time not see i wish all a nice autum winter season
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13:12<nielsm>ugh takes forever to run doxygen...
13:16<LordAro>"EXTRACT_ANON_NSPACES = NO"
13:16<LordAro>has appeared in my config file after running doxygen -u
13:16<nielsm>yeah found that one too
13:16<LordAro>almost looks like most of the time is spent outputting all the warnings :p
13:17<nielsm>that too
13:19<LordAro>nope, hardly any change when redirecting output to devnull
13:20<LordAro>just lots of code :p
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13:28<andythenorth>oof
13:29<nielsm>rab?
13:33<LordAro>nielsm: why did you use an anonymous namespace, ooi?
13:34<LordAro>i've never really seen the point of them
13:35<nielsm>habit...
13:37<LordAro>that works too :p
13:47<andythenorth>what next? o_O
13:55<andythenorth>drawing stuff?
13:55<TrueBrain>it was really asking for other responses, I promise you
13:58<LordAro>an TB
13:59<TrueBrain>no
13:59<LordAro>aw
14:01<TrueBrain>yeah, I know right
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14:05<Eddi|zuHause>i need to switch games... tried KSP for a while, but seriously getting annoyed at some game mechanics
14:07<TrueBrain>hmmm .. you cannot extend USB till the end of times, it seems ... after 15 meters the hub doesn't want to talk to the pc... so sad
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, USB is spec-ed at max 5m
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>there are special extension cables with repeaters
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>i got a 15m one for work once
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>costs about 100€
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14:10<dwfreed>oftentimes it's better to use the USB to Cat5 converters
14:11<TrueBrain>THE LATENCY! THE LAG! :D
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>i've only seen USB2-via-LAN, not USB3-via-LAN
14:16<andythenorth>lol TB
14:16<andythenorth>there is one
14:16<andythenorth>a TrueBrain
14:16<andythenorth>here
14:16<TrueBrain>NO!
14:16-!-foamz [~foamz@49.64.217.140] has joined #openttd
14:16<foamz>Ꮤith οᥙr IRϹ ad servіce you can reɑch a gⅼobaⅼ aᥙdiеᥒce of entrepreᥒe∪rѕ ɑnd fеntɑnyl ɑddicts ᴡіtһ еⅹtraordiᥒary eᥒɡɑgement rаteѕ! httpѕ:/⁄wⅰlliaⅿpіtcock.cഠm⁄
14:16-!-foamz is "foamz" on #bcache #openttd
14:16<foamz>I tһоught you ɡuỿѕ mіght be interested in thіs bⅼog by freenοԁᥱ staff meⅿber Brуaᥒ kloеri Ostergaаrd һttⲣs:/⁄brỿanostᥱrgaɑrԁ.cⲟm/
14:16<TrueBrain>I am not an 'a'
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14:16<andythenorth>what is USB?
14:16<andythenorth>what is a USB?
14:19*andythenorth has 4 ports, they are a funny shape
14:19<TrueBrain>I really do not wanted to know how many ports you had ...
14:20<andythenorth>or the shape?
14:26<Samu>AdmiralAI crash
14:26<Samu>that's the first time
14:28<Xaroth>planetmaker: I have a quest for you.
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14:57-!-glx is "Loïc GUILLOUX" on #opendune #openttd.noai #openttd.notice +#openttd
15:04<andythenorth>oof
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15:07<yellyFish>o/
15:09<yellyFish>is it normal that when doing ./configure i have to be explicit in using -02 for CXXFLAGS? else it doesn't seem to use that flag.
15:11<andythenorth>Horse has 6 generations of flat wagon like this https://photos.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/B-tops-codes/BDA-Bogie-Bolster-wagons/i-Pp9jrkX/0/e01e3d53/XL/BDA_950606_Doncaster_140706-XL.jpg
15:11<andythenorth>and the problem is
15:11<andythenorth>that the IRL design hasn't changed for about 100 years
15:12<andythenorth>this makes the sprites hard to differentiate
15:12<andythenorth>assuming that they're all using company colour :P
15:13<andythenorth>maybe that assumption needs to yield? o_O
15:14<LordAro>yellyFish: last time i checked it was default...
15:14<LordAro>can you paste the output of configure (without setting flags) somewhere?
15:18<yellyFish>https://pastebin.com/BtTh3r2z
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15:20<yellyFish>or is it enough with it being in CFLAGS?
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15:20<yellyFish>i see it in there at least
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15:26<LordAro>if it's in there, it's getting used
15:26<LordAro>it doesn't need to be in cxxflags as well as cflags
15:29<yellyFish>ah ok. was just making sure
15:34<yellyFish>nielsm: hey o/. do you know if the performance framerate thing is always running or just when you open the framerate window?
15:34<nielsm>it's always collecting
15:35<nielsm>but just the act of painting the performance data actually makes painting the screen a lot slower
15:35<nielsm>so you'll see some performance loss just having it open
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15:35<nielsm>(especially in debug builds)
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15:48<yellyFish>is it wise to always have it collecting? isn't making time calls all the time?
15:48<nielsm>those are optimized (on system level) for being called often
15:49<nielsm>the collection itself should be insignificant
15:49<nielsm>apart from maybe influence on memory caching...
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16:33<OMGLag>LordAro, thanks!
16:34<OMGLag>what's the deal with that foamz guy?
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18:49-!-zduniak is "zduniak" on #bcache #openttd #debian-derivatives #debian-js #vserver #tlwg #aptosid #debian-mozilla
18:50<zduniak>Wіth оᥙr ΙᎡⲤ aⅾ serviсe уou cɑn reасһ ɑ ɡlobaⅼ aᥙdiᥱᥒсe of еᥒtrepreneurs and fentɑnỿl aԁԁiсts with eхtrɑordinɑry еᥒɡaɡᥱment rɑtеѕ︕ https﹕/∕wіⅼlⅰaⅿpitcock.com/
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 28 00:00:44 2018