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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-11-05

---Logopened Mon Nov 05 00:00:56 2018
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03:01<andythenorth>tank game salutes :P
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04:04<@peter1138>Hmm, well, this is awkward.
04:04<@peter1138>And strange.
04:10<andythenorth>'you ok hun?'
04:12<@peter1138>I need to put weight on :p
04:24<andythenorth>you've overshot?
04:40<andythenorth>unless it's a medical thing :P
04:40*andythenorth bbl
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05:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #3848: Orders: different STR_ORDER_GO_TO for each transport type
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06:13<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #5326: NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH causing "String too long for destination buffer" git branch with length > 8
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06:30<LordAro> i feel the need to share this
06:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6219: Commuter - Helicopter is in flight bug
06:51<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6434: Localization of company and president name
07:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6427: [Windows] RTL bug OpenTTD 1.6.0-RC1
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11:42<LordAro>nielsm: busy day at work, i see :p
12:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 opened pull request #6963: Several improvements in known-bugs file
12:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 opened pull request #6964: Unificate several files with those from release 1.8 branch
12:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6963: Several improvements in known-bugs file
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12:52<nielsm> <-- maybe only include the revision hash and not branch in the game version packet on network?
12:54<@planetmaker>I *think* that would require then separation of version identification between title bar and network version. It's actually not a new issue and not exclusive to git... 2012. Yet the short SVN version numbers made it much less likely to trigger
12:55<nielsm>two people playing diffrent versions of the same branch would probably not be detected before it just desyncs
12:55<nielsm>I guess
12:56<@planetmaker>However yes, I like your solution, to always use the HASH for network compatibility
13:00<frosch123>the hash is used
13:00<frosch123>just truncated
13:00<frosch123>and adding the branch name makes it way easier for people to distinguish official, jgrpp, ...
13:00<nielsm>is this for human consumption or version compatibility check?
13:01<nielsm>I understand it as the latter
13:01<frosch123>i think it is also shown in the multiplayer gui
13:01<frosch123>so, both
13:06<nielsm>the date in _openttd_revision is commit date, right?
13:06<frosch123> <- except for coop, everyone uses tags though
13:06<frosch123>commit date, so monotone incremental
13:07<nielsm>date + dash eats 9 of 15 bytes, leaving 6 for branch or commit hash
13:08<nielsm>and branch names easily consume 6 characters
13:08<nielsm>so you only get date as differentiator
13:08<frosch123>hmm, fair point
13:08<nielsm>and not insignificant risk of clash between similarly named branches
13:12<@planetmaker>currently, yes, there is no distinction between network version and the one used for human consumption
13:14<@planetmaker>maybe we should introduce such distinction
13:14<@planetmaker>(or maybe just create a version string of whatever length - and use the last 25 bytes as networ version (instead of first 25))
13:15<@planetmaker>that makes sure we have the HASH included at all times
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13:16<nielsm>ah good, the network game info packet is versioned
13:16<nielsm>so it can in fact be upgraded without total breakage
13:17<nielsm>(old clients not understanding new version packets is fine since they can't connect anyway)
13:18<nielsm>hmm, server_revision is sent as a string, meaning it must be 0-terminated
13:18<nielsm>meaning it only fits 14 characters in the buffer
13:18<nielsm>but also meaning that it's possible to just extend the buffer in the struct
13:19<Wolf01>Yay, I'm now connected at 3 Mbit
13:19<nielsm>now to download some linux isos?
13:19<frosch123>if you change it, it may be useful to add the branch as separate field
13:19<@planetmaker>Not sure you can "just extend the buffer in the struct" when it comes to network packets. They have a maximum size for some reasons. IIRC
13:20<nielsm>well yes the SEND_MTU = 1460 bytes for a UDP packet
13:20<@planetmaker>what about just using the last N characters of the existing version string?
13:20<@planetmaker>not much change needed for that
13:21<@planetmaker>a bit hackish, I grant that :)
13:21<frosch123>planetmaker: don't remove reasons for nielsm to implement multi-package udp announcements
13:21<@planetmaker>lalala :)
13:21<nielsm>okay 20 bytes consumed per newgrf used
13:21<@planetmaker>newGRF is a reason to implement what frosch just said :)
13:21<nielsm>there's stricter version check of newgrfs than the core game engine
13:22<Wolf01><nielsm> now to download some linux isos? <- I'm downloading destiny 2
13:22<Wolf01>It's 80GB... eta 5 days
13:22<@planetmaker>nielsm, yes... because version mismatch between OpenTTD itself hardly was an issue. NewGRF mismatch often was. A BIG PITA. But it got much better now that OpenTTD checks rather rigorously
13:23<nielsm>Wolf01, that would take me about 2 hours :/
13:23<@planetmaker>@calc 80000000000/(100000000/8)/3600
13:23<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1.77777777778
13:23<@planetmaker>^^ for me, too
13:26<Wolf01>Monsters :'(
13:27<nielsm>hmm, 198 bytes (max) used by a game info packet with zero newgrfs
13:27<nielsm>@calc (1460 - 198) / 20
13:27<@DorpsGek>nielsm: 63.1
13:27<nielsm>so yeah that's 63 newgrfs allowed
13:28<nielsm>drop one to make it 62 newgrfs and the server revision can be extended to 35 bytes
13:28<nielsm>which should definitely be enough
13:29<nielsm>is this number of max newgrfs encoded anywhere in the source?
13:29<@planetmaker>yop, exactly.
13:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6964: Unificate several files with those from release 1.8 branch
13:31<frosch123>static const uint NETWORK_MAX_GRF_COUNT = 62;
13:31<@planetmaker>hm... in network
13:32<nielsm>hm bbl, food
13:33<@planetmaker>sounds like a good idea. BBL, too
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14:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #5326: NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH causing "String too long for destination buffer" git branch with length > 8
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14:14<andythenorth>so after much much thinking
14:14<andythenorth>about vehicle capacities
14:14<andythenorth>the ones I chose
14:14<andythenorth>match the original base set :P
14:14<andythenorth>such and very
14:15<TrueBrain>your turn
14:15<andythenorth>is that on staging? o_O
14:15<TrueBrain>no, it is empty
14:15<andythenorth>"Hello World"
14:15<TrueBrain>install it with something like ... 'apt install ruby && gem install bundler && bundle install && jekyll serve'
14:15*andythenorth clones
14:15<TrueBrain>it has no templates nothing
14:16<TrueBrain>it is really as bare as it can be
14:16<andythenorth>I have to read Jekyll CVEs first :(
14:16<andythenorth>but yes
14:17<frosch123>hmm, you can have dots in repository names...
14:17<andythenorth>policy is not to install anything without checking for obvious vulns first
14:17<andythenorth>except when it's 1 billion upstream deps :P
14:20<TrueBrain>frosch123: surprised me too :D
14:21<TrueBrain>andythenorth: that is what I like about Jekyll .. in production we run nginx + HTML .. fuck any CVE :P
14:21<andythenorth>just don't want my endpoint getting owned :P
14:21<andythenorth>hmm I don't have permission to install to the system ruby
14:21<andythenorth>maybe I can install my own
14:22<TrueBrain>add --user-install
14:22<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I added you with push rights; feel free to push directly in that branch
14:22<TrueBrain>as often as you like
14:22<andythenorth>I'm currently copy-pasting instructions from the internet
14:22<andythenorth>what could go wrong?
14:22<TrueBrain>before we move it to OpenTTD, I am going to squash it anyway
14:22<andythenorth>at least it doesn't include 'sudo'
14:22<TrueBrain>curl ... | sudo bash, right?
14:22<andythenorth>also noted, thanks
14:23<andythenorth>curl myurlisdefinitelyfine
14:23<andythenorth>oh there's some kind of rubyenv thing
14:23<andythenorth>like virtualenv
14:23<TrueBrain>I am not first going to try to get this on a staging system of some kinds
14:23<TrueBrain>gem install --user-install .... works fine :)
14:24<andythenorth>fails for me, I'm following jekyll instructions instead
14:25<andythenorth>'probably fine'
14:28<andythenorth>now we watch ruby build :P
14:28<andythenorth>ok, so I learnt something
14:28<andythenorth>it's not just python that has these problems :P
14:29<andythenorth>obvs. JS has them, but that's not a serious tool
14:30<TrueBrain>is there a pyup for Ruby ..
14:33<andythenorth>jekyll is getting busy with clang now
14:33<andythenorth>probably fine
14:33<andythenorth>"This could take a while..."
14:34<TrueBrain>yeah .... it insist on coming with 'jekyll serve', which requires em_websocket (??) which needs httpparser, which needs a compiler
14:34<TrueBrain>it is .... special
14:34<andythenorth>most things are
14:39<TrueBrain>still annoyed we need Jekyll for the small dynamic part .. but still dont know a way around :P
14:39<TrueBrain>we can leave placeholders and do nginx trickery I guess
14:40<LordAro>why ruby/jekyll instead of python/some-python-static-site-generator?
14:40<TrueBrain>what do you have against ruby or jekyll?
14:41<TrueBrain>is any flavor of the month better than the next?
14:41<LordAro>nothing, but existing stuff is python
14:41<TrueBrain>and Jekyll is non-existing?
14:42<TrueBrain>you are weird :P
14:42<TrueBrain>anyway, Jekyll is just the tool; so it shouldnt matter really
14:43<TrueBrain>and github-pages is really populair, so I guess there is something there
14:43<TrueBrain>the framework itself is pretty nice tbh; clean, simpel, to the point
14:43<TrueBrain>that a Ruby app runs it .. meh ..
14:44<TrueBrain>stupid github keeps Ruby populair I guess :D
14:52<frosch123>stupid mediawiki keeps php popular?
14:52<TrueBrain>and script kiddies, dont forget about those! :P
14:54<TrueBrain>still wonder if we should not just sed over the files every 5 minutes to update the banner, instead of running Jekyll every 5 minutes or something :P
14:54<TrueBrain>not sure .. having only a very small part dynamic is annoying :(
14:56<LordAro>wouldn't be the worst thing in the world...
14:57*andythenorth reads up
14:57<andythenorth>yeah jekyll in prod, or just have the output committed in the repo and publish those from a path?
14:58<TrueBrain>no, the Jekyll source files will always be in the repo
14:58<frosch123>the template engines have very similar syntax. so it is easy to replace jekyll with other engines later
14:58<frosch123>as needed
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14:58<TrueBrain>the choices are: run Jekyll build on startup, or once during build and sed the dynamic parts in
14:58<TrueBrain>frosch123: yup
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14:58<andythenorth>frosch123: that was my thinking, they're all jinja-ish or whatever
14:58<andythenorth>everything is for % {{}}
14:58<TrueBrain>but given GitHub Pages suggest Jekyll .. we will be fine :P
14:59<andythenorth>maybe we can adopt that syntax for nml 2
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14:59<andythenorth>oh I had some horrible ideas for nml
14:59<andythenorth>but maybe not now
14:59<+glx>probably never then ;)
15:00<andythenorth>I wondered about scoping all the blocks by hacking an ID into the declaration
15:00<Wolf01>Say a number between 1 and 894 (and hope it's installed :P)
15:00<andythenorth>and then using that to see if makes any difference to parser / lexer performance
15:00<andythenorth>by only recompiling what's changed
15:01<andythenorth>the idea makes more sense if I explain it better
15:01<andythenorth>oh jekyll has been busy failing to install while I wait
15:01<andythenorth>how nice
15:01<TrueBrain>meh, will have to think about how to get this to staging; either way, andythenorth (and others if they like ofc :D) can already start porting the website :P
15:01<+glx>894 is a lot Wolf01
15:01<Wolf01>I know
15:02<+glx>I have only 334
15:02<Wolf01>Bundles ruined me
15:02<Wolf01>I still have like 15 games not redeemed
15:03<+glx>duplicates ?
15:03<Wolf01>Some of them yes
15:03<andythenorth>ugh yair, jekyll is broken
15:03<andythenorth>I love open source
15:03<TrueBrain>it is? :o
15:03<Wolf01>Others, just bored of inserting codes in steam
15:03<TrueBrain>you can run the docker, but how it is currently is not meant for development :D
15:03<andythenorth>.rbenv/versions/2.5.1/lib/ruby/gems/2.5.0/gems/bundler-1.17.1/lib/bundler/spec_set.rb:91:in `block in materialize': Could not find concurrent-ruby-1.0.5 in any of the sources (Bundler::GemNotFound)
15:04<andythenorth>I could play the random install crap game
15:04<andythenorth>this is all reassuringly pythonic :P
15:04<TrueBrain>I have to install json and bignumbers before it worked :P
15:04<TrueBrain>but concurrent-ruby I havent seen
15:04<andythenorth>neither has the gem installer
15:04<andythenorth>it can't find any version
15:04<TrueBrain>what you can do, is forget about 'bundle install'
15:05<TrueBrain>and just run: gem install jekyll
15:05<andythenorth>yeah I did that already :)
15:05<TrueBrain>possibly the Gemfile.lock is Linux only or something
15:05<TrueBrain>no clue :P
15:05<TrueBrain>if you have jekyll installed, just run: jekyll serve
15:05<TrueBrain>and forget about the rest :P
15:05<andythenorth>yeah that's how I get the concurrent error :)
15:06<andythenorth>if it's like python, I probably need a different bundler version
15:06<TrueBrain>lolz; that mostly is the case for Python yes :D
15:06<andythenorth>I'm assuming bundler is setuptools, with all the related 'it doesn't really work' shit
15:06<andythenorth>gem is presumably pip
15:06<TrueBrain>I run Ruby 2.5.0 and Bundler 1.17.1
15:07<andythenorth>I have ruby 2.5.1 and bundler 1.17.1
15:07<TrueBrain>so that should be fine, I would guess
15:07<andythenorth>gem --version?
15:07<andythenorth>2.7.6 here
15:08<TrueBrain>gem install concurrent-ruby doesnt work?
15:08<TrueBrain>internet suggests that should "just work"
15:09<andythenorth>works fine, gives me 1.1.1
15:09<andythenorth>but this recipe wants 1.0.5
15:09<TrueBrain>1.0.5 is VERY old :P
15:09<TrueBrain>(like, Feb 2017)
15:10<TrueBrain>"gem install concurrent-ruby -v 1.0.5" fails, I assume?
15:12<andythenorth>works great
15:12<andythenorth>next error
15:13<andythenorth>gem install jekyll -v 3.8.4
15:13<andythenorth>next error
15:13<andythenorth> gem install jekyll-feed -v 0.11.0
15:13<andythenorth>next error
15:13<TrueBrain>dependencies should take care of this :P
15:13<TrueBrain>try: bundle install, btw
15:13<andythenorth>I started looking for a manifest to edit
15:13<TrueBrain>in the repo
15:13<TrueBrain>Gemfile.lock contains all the dependencies
15:14<andythenorth>ok bundle install worked
15:15<andythenorth>I think I should bin this rbenv and start from scratch tho
15:16<andythenorth>that's the nice thing about these packaged envs
15:16<andythenorth>instead of blitzing the system install
15:17<andythenorth>so many years of pain due to messing with system python etc
15:18<andythenorth>ok back in 15 mins or so, after ruby finishes running my fans
15:25<andythenorth>TrueBrain: it works again, but still wasn't a clean install :P
15:26<TrueBrain>owh well
15:26<TrueBrain>as long as you can get to work
15:26<TrueBrain>I am fine with it :)
15:26<andythenorth>I like a repro :)
15:27<andythenorth>too many years of 'it works, never touch it again'
15:27<andythenorth>gem install jekyll gives 3.8.5 or so
15:27<andythenorth>bundle install gives 3.8.4 or so
15:27<TrueBrain>most likely if we build the website once, we never run Jekyll ourself again :P
15:29<andythenorth>can anyone explain physics to me?
15:30<andythenorth>me neither
15:30<andythenorth>where is eddi?
15:30<andythenorth>oh he can't get in the channel anymore
15:30<andythenorth>we lost eddi :(
15:30<frosch123>gravity? did you drop your notebook?
15:30<TrueBrain>poor eddi
15:30<TrueBrain>I AM ON SLACK
15:31<andythenorth>you got a bridge?
15:31<TrueBrain>to nowhere, sure
15:31<andythenorth>frosch123: weight of object vs internal volume
15:31<andythenorth>claim is that narrow gauge wagons have less dead weight per unit cargo capacity
15:31<andythenorth>I don't follow that
15:31<Wolf01>If it's full it weights more
15:32<TrueBrain>Wolf01: unless they are anti-gravity particles, of course
15:32<Wolf01>Yeah, or air
15:32<TrueBrain>or anything lighter than air
15:32<andythenorth>volume increases as a cube?
15:32<andythenorth>weight of sides, floor, roof, less so?
15:33<TrueBrain>volume can also increase like a cylinder
15:33<TrueBrain>or like a pyramid
15:33<TrueBrain>depends on the form, really
15:33<andythenorth>what about a gem?
15:33<TrueBrain>hmmm .. gemssssss
15:33<TrueBrain>right, it seems I am not going to be useful anymore this evening
15:34<andythenorth>gem install bundler first?
15:34<TrueBrain>gem install bundler && bundle install
15:34<TrueBrain>should be sufficient
15:34<TrueBrain>(that is what the Dockerfile does anyway :P)
15:34*andythenorth trying
15:35<@orudge>[15:17:22] <nielsm> <-- now that looks not dissimilar to my ancient music patch that allowed Vorbis and MP3 playback
15:37<andythenorth>-bash: .rbenv/shims/jekyll: No such file or directory
15:37<andythenorth>after bundle install
15:37<LordAro>andythenorth: stop breaking everything
15:37<andythenorth>but if I gem install jekyll
15:37<andythenorth>then uninstall it
15:37<andythenorth>it works
15:37<TrueBrain>so if that works for you, use it
15:38<TrueBrain>dont overthink this part too much
15:38<andythenorth>so presumably it's just missing a shim or path or something
15:38<TrueBrain>you are special on your OSX :P
15:38<TrueBrain>dont waste too much of your brain cycles on getting this perfect :)
15:38<andythenorth>I am just using plain ruby here though, this is not Apple ruby
15:39<nielsm>orudge yes :) I have a working (I think) patch for fluidsynth music driver on my linux laptop that changes it to output via the mixer too
15:39<andythenorth>ok so
15:39<andythenorth>bundle install
15:39<andythenorth>followed by gem install -v 3.8.4
15:39<nielsm>and I think being able to use fluidsynth on any supported platform that way would be awesome
15:40<@orudge>nielsm: Nice
15:40<@orudge>Yes, that would be handy
15:40<nielsm>also want to add in the opl2/3 synth from dosbox and use it for the music
15:41<nielsm>(just need to reverse the driver for that... ugh)
15:41<frosch123>andythenorth: smaller things are more firm in general i guess
15:42<TrueBrain>that's what she said?
15:42<frosch123>like ants can carry stuff
15:44<TrueBrain>right, I am off. andythenorth, I expect results tomorrow :P
15:44<frosch123>if the wagon weights less, you need less wagon to support itself
15:45<andythenorth>TrueBrain: bye
15:47<andythenorth>"the advantages claimed for narrow gauge proved untrue"
15:47<andythenorth>I read my sources a bit more :P
15:47<andythenorth>this is a nice train though
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17:31<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 updated pull request #6964: Unificate several files with those from release 1.8 branch
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17:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 commented on pull request #6964: Unificate several files with those from release 1.8 branch
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17:55<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 commented on pull request #6963: Several improvements in known-bugs file
17:56<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #6964: Unificate several files with those from release 1.8 branch
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18:01<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6963: Several improvements in known-bugs file
18:04<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6903: selected rail type should be included in game saves
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18:15<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 commented on pull request #6963: Several improvements in known-bugs file
18:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Greg-21 commented on pull request #6963: Several improvements in known-bugs file
18:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #6964: Unificate several files with those from release 1.8 branch
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20:14-!-Unit193 [] has left #openttd [So long, and thanks for all the fish.]
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 06 00:00:57 2018