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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-01-01

---Logopened Tue Jan 01 00:00:01 2019
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03:29<andythenorth>moin
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03:40<@Alberth>moin
03:40<@Alberth>freaking pixel stuf
03:47<andythenorth>:P
03:47<andythenorth>rebase?
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03:48-!-nielsm is "Niels Martin Hansen" on #openttd
03:50<nielsm>happy new year :)
03:50<nielsm>unless you live on some pacific island where there's still a few hours to go
03:54<@Alberth>is there a standard image -> pixel colour text-file dump program and vv ?
03:54<@Alberth>ie like hexdumps
03:57<@Alberth>imagemagick doesn't apparently
03:57<nielsm>I'm not sure I understand what you're after
03:58<@Alberth>I have 2 images and there different, and I have to merge the differences
03:58<@Alberth>git can only say "different", and has a one line description
03:59<@Alberth>I need a tool that can show me which precise pixels are different
03:59<andythenorth>is it openttd.png?
03:59<nielsm>try converting to PPM format
03:59<andythenorth>or so?
03:59<nielsm>that's a text-based image format
03:59<@Alberth>openttdgui, but fair enough
03:59<andythenorth>can scan pixels with PIL
03:59<andythenorth>I'd use two layers in photoshop, and set them to diff blend
04:00<andythenorth>Alberth: specifically I can fix this one for you, but right now...I am not feeling my best :P
04:00<@Alberth>ppm would work
04:01<@Alberth>but you'd expect someone has written a hex-dump for images, to convert to text and back
04:01*andythenorth had a small sleep on the bathroom floor, from 1am-3am :|
04:01<@Alberth>weird place for a bed andy :)
04:01<andythenorth>I have had worse, and better
04:01<andythenorth>mostly better
04:01<@Alberth>:)
04:02<andythenorth>there is a pixascan function in pixa which dumps out pixel values in an array of tuples, but it's "doing it the hard way"
04:03<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pej6sox8c I have this now, which does the job
04:03<nielsm>would it make sense (for future diffing) to split the spritesheets into single image per sprite?
04:03<nielsm>or smaller sheets at least
04:04<@Alberth>yeah, I wondered also why each sprite is not separate
04:04<andythenorth>this spritesheet is the most common source of rebase conflicts
04:04<@Alberth>but it's a mess if you have to edit them
04:04<andythenorth>and the tools can't handle it
04:05*andythenorth looks at it
04:06<@Alberth>basically you want a set of tools that understands sprite sheets
04:06<@Alberth>or failing that, understands some form of "this is a sprite rectangle" description
04:07<andythenorth>like openttd? o_O
04:07<andythenorth>it's trivial-ish to find the blue boxes with PIL
04:08<@Alberth>I wrote that too at some point I think
04:08<andythenorth>at least github shows the image https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/media/extra_grf/openttdgui.png
04:08*andythenorth might just eyeball the diff
04:08<@Alberth>nope
04:09<@Alberth>you'll miss a few pixels
04:10<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9236/openttdgui.diff.png
04:10<andythenorth>transparent pixels from https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/media/extra_grf/openttdgui.png
04:10<andythenorth>and the NRT UI sprites
04:12<@Alberth>yep, 3 pixels in the middle somewhere and the big addition at the bottom
04:14<@Alberth>custom image copy will do
04:20<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/prf1tgo63
04:22<andythenorth>repeatable rebase :D
04:24<@Alberth>not quite, I changed some other files manually :)
04:25*andythenorth wonders about always scripting comple rebases :P
04:25<andythenorth>'over-engineered' o_O
04:25<andythenorth>complex *
04:25<@Alberth>do go near conflicts, and it's perfectly scriptable: git rebase master
04:26<@Alberth>*dont
04:27<@Alberth>rewriting the whole thing on top of current master is likely not a bad idea from a technical point of view
04:27<@Alberth>the big downside is time
04:28<andythenorth>somebody started a rewrite
04:28<andythenorth>then somebody else said "don't bother, just merge it"
04:28<andythenorth>but eh :)
04:30<@Alberth>one commit for entire nrt is never going to be accepted I think
04:31<@Alberth>but 2 source files left, so looking good
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04:34<andythenorth>TB and peter both seemed happy with one big commit
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04:35<andythenorth>just got stuck on '64 types or not'
04:35<andythenorth>to which the answer is 'of course 64, why are we discussing this' :D
04:35*andythenorth wonders how TrueBrain is today
04:41<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pasw3w5dr any idea how to resolved this?
04:42<@Alberth>compatible_roadtypes in master vs rtid.basetype in nrt
04:43<@Alberth>hmm, should check what nrt modified I guess
04:45<@Alberth>right, nrt wins here
04:46*andythenorth has been learning how to draw https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1216789#p1216789
04:46<andythenorth>rtid wins
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04:49<@Alberth>quite subtle changes
04:52<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p9f7vy0ym this one is very "oh dear"
04:58<andythenorth>yes :(
04:59<andythenorth>but NRT savegames don't need preserved
04:59<andythenorth>stuff like this is always a problem for long-running forks
05:00<andythenorth>maybe all savegames should be on the blockchain
05:00<@Alberth>savegame number 999 would have been much easier here :)
05:00<andythenorth>yes
05:01<@Alberth>ah well, let's hope not too many magic 201s
05:01<andythenorth>then it would have got reviewed as 'pls change the savegame number, it's silly' :D
05:02<@Alberth>well, until that point, it's quite useful to avoid conflicts with default openttd :)
05:02*andythenorth might risk breakfast
05:02<@Alberth>hmm, maybe change them to constanys,,, :p
05:02<andythenorth>living dangerous
05:03<@Alberth>made some warm toast just now, want one?
05:03<andythenorth>might not be warm when it arrives
05:06<nielsm>hmm, wonder if I should make a thread for my Winter Wonderland project...
05:07<@Alberth>yes
05:07<nielsm>and recruit some help painting new art for all the wanted things :)
05:07<@Alberth>there is a whole lot of language changes in translated languages, what happened there?
05:15<andythenorth>between NRT and master?
05:15<andythenorth>could you paste a diff?
05:16<andythenorth>nielsm: pixels eh? I might have to hide
05:16<andythenorth>https://www.google.com/search?q=lego+winter+village&tbm=isch
05:17<andythenorth>does everyone in Denmark get a free Lego set at Christmas?
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05:22<nielsm>haha no
05:22<andythenorth>what kind of sprites do you want? Toyland-ish?
05:23<nielsm>no realistic-ish
05:24<nielsm>more akin to larger-than-life christmas films
05:24<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#assembly_plant
05:24<andythenorth>glitter factory :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#chemical_plant
05:25<nielsm>okay there's a bit of magic involved ;)
05:25<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#copper_refinery
05:25<andythenorth>is glitter mined? o_O
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05:25<andythenorth>christmas tree farm? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#forest
05:26<nielsm>right now it's described as condensed from the sparkly winter night
05:26<andythenorth>I always fancied this for a wooden toy factory http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#furniture_factory
05:26<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnzpz0vyz
05:26<andythenorth>this literally already is a reindeer farm http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#herding_coop
05:27<andythenorth>Alberth: wondering if NRT disallowed road/tram crossings, so maybe it splits the string
05:27<andythenorth>@seen wolf01
05:27<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Wolf01> Happy new year GMT users!
05:27<nielsm>I'm thinking there should also be a candy canes production chain, probably something simple
05:27<andythenorth>toyland already has one? o_O
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05:28<nielsm>toyland has a Sweets chain yes
05:29<nielsm>candyfloss/toffee/suger => sweet factory => houses
05:29<nielsm>sugar*
05:31<andythenorth>candy cane producer :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#soda_ash_mine
05:31<@Alberth>oh toffee quarry, such an annoying noise :p
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05:31<nielsm>maybe have a Candy Well that pumps boiling candy mass up from the underground, which has to be shipped express (before solidifying) to the candy cane twister
05:31-!-synchris is "Synesios Christou" on #openttd
05:32<@Alberth>open wagon with bubbling liquid candy cane
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05:34<Wolf01>o/
05:35<andythenorth>summoned
05:35<andythenorth>nielsm: it's outrageous, you'll want cargo support from train sets next :P
05:35<andythenorth>industry set authors are the worst :(
05:36<Wolf01>NRT heh
05:36<nielsm>:D
05:37<Wolf01>IIRC there was a way to disallow tram over road on the same direction, but we decided to let the tram cross the road
05:37<nielsm>my intention is to include a minimal vehicle set that supports the cargo types, with part of the idea being that there should not be a tech progression in vehicles at all
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05:39<nielsm>by the way, any chance of this one getting approved? :D https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6872
05:40<andythenorth>oh why did I remove the label?
05:41<andythenorth>user error
05:51<nielsm>boiling candy, measured by volume or weight?
05:56<andythenorth>corn syrup is done by volume
05:56*andythenorth looking for molten steel unit ;P
05:57<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p60jpnebz :o
05:59<nielsm>woah
05:59<andythenorth>oof that confused me :)
05:59<andythenorth>I thought someone had already merged it
05:59<andythenorth>I would feel bad if that was the case
05:59<Wolf01>Mmmh, I must lego
06:01<@Alberth>more arm wrestling today eh?
06:01<Wolf01>Yes
06:02<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s5FE.png
06:02<nielsm>some typos in strings
06:02<Wolf01>I must get the mechanics to work, I have only 2 months for refinements
06:02<andythenorth>cane twister :)
06:03<andythenorth>a long thin industry :P
06:05<@Alberth>candy wells would be too easy?
06:05<@Alberth>btw you can drive on frozen water :)
06:09<@Alberth>andy: late christmas present: https://github.com/Alberth289346/OpenTTD/tree/nrt-block-based
06:10<@Alberth>it compiles with some string problems in the translations, and an unused variable
06:11<andythenorth>:)
06:11<@Alberth>I completely deleted two translation change sets, due to conflicts, not sure which one they were but they are findable by trying to merge again
06:13<andythenorth>oof I merged upstream/master instead of rebasing
06:13*andythenorth is such a git fool
06:14<andythenorth>was trying to sync my fork before updating the NRT PR
06:14<@Alberth>you only merge --ff :p
06:14<andythenorth>I haven't pushed, I'll delete my repo
06:15<@Alberth>just reset the references to their old place
06:16<andythenorth>done
06:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg
06:19<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^ NRT is back
06:20<andythenorth>let's see if it builds
06:20<Wolf01>Nice, I could port the old branches to a new clone of it
06:21<Wolf01>On the latest builds I couldn't even try it, it didn't load the grfs, any of them
06:22<@Alberth>maybe making a diff from the old nrt to master and a diff from the merged nrt to master, and compare them?
06:23<@Alberth>ie check what each version adds, it should be the same or explainable different
06:26*andythenorth wonders how to feel better
06:26<SpComb>alcohol?
06:26<@Alberth>eat a cookie
06:26<andythenorth>the only think I want are eggs
06:26<andythenorth>and there are none here
06:27<@Alberth>restaurant?
06:27<@Alberth>all closed I guess
06:28<andythenorth>shop
06:28<Borg>andythenorth: play OpenTTD !!
06:28<Borg>:)
06:29<andythenorth>oof
06:42<andythenorth>oh maybe CF isn't building yet
06:42<andythenorth>mumble mumble azure triggers
06:42<andythenorth>I can't trivially build locally :P
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06:44<andythenorth>I have to make another branch with 6917 and NRT merged together :P
06:44<andythenorth>and remember to not merge that to NRT
06:45<andythenorth>programming is mostly bureaucracy :)
06:46<nielsm>hmm, I need to fix something here, helicopters and ships can't carry sweaters
06:47<andythenorth>NRT built :D
06:47<@planetmaker>moin moin
06:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/fht6V
06:51<andythenorth>NRT for April 1? o_O
06:53<andythenorth>nielsm: so will your industries use all the cbs that need 16 cargo support? o_O
06:53<nielsm>that's what I'm doing right now, although it's not necessary
07:06<nielsm>hm how do you make an industry layout for a water based industry, that gets the dock/heliport station?
07:06<@planetmaker>that is a specific tile type which you need to use
07:06<@planetmaker>tileID
07:07<@planetmaker>basically you need to re-use the original tileID from the oil rig
07:08<andythenorth>FEh or something
07:08*andythenorth looks
07:08<@planetmaker>firs harbour will know :P
07:08<andythenorth>seems to be tile 24
07:08<andythenorth>has to be very specifically place
07:08<andythenorth>placed *
07:09<@planetmaker>0xFE or 0xFF was 'needs to be clear' or sth similar
07:11<andythenorth>yeah 18h https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/IndustryDefaultProps#Industry_Layouts
07:11<@planetmaker>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Default_industry_tiles <-- ha, even wiki doesn't exactly have it :|
07:11<andythenorth>24d
07:11<andythenorth>placed in the same y column, on adjacent x rows
07:13<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s5F5.txt <- this one doesn't give me the station, I need to place more than one 0x18 ?
07:18<@planetmaker>is it 0x18, not 0x1C?
07:18<@planetmaker>or 0x1A? I need to check :D
07:22<@planetmaker>meh, how do I get oil rigs without NewGRFs? :D
07:22<nielsm>year past 1960
07:23<andythenorth>it's 2 0x18
07:23<andythenorth>in same y column, adjacent x rows
07:23<@planetmaker>I only get oil wells :|
07:24<andythenorth>fund one
07:25<nielsm>yay https://0x0.st/s5Cr.jpg
07:25<@planetmaker>stupid me. Of course funding :)
07:25<andythenorth>nice
07:25<andythenorth>sea mine
07:26<nielsm>graphics die when I override the industrytile
07:27<@planetmaker>yes.... the handling of that tile property certainly could be improved in OpenTTD
07:28<@planetmaker>But I assume it's a bin of worms
07:28<@planetmaker>as it includes stations and stuff
07:30<nielsm>what format should nearby_station_name be in, just a {STRING} for the town name or what?
07:30<nielsm>(industry prop)
07:31<nielsm>looks like that workd
07:31<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s5C-.png
07:32<andythenorth>just a string
07:32<andythenorth>yes
07:33<andythenorth>planetmaker: is this something you could review? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6872
07:33*andythenorth can't :|
07:34<andythenorth>I would miss something :P
07:34<@planetmaker>I do fear the same. But can give it a shot
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07:42<nielsm>eh, nmlc doesn't warn me about multiple cargo types with identical ID
07:44<@planetmaker>the later definition overwrites the first, I assume
07:45<@planetmaker>the reason is that it is allowed to have different carog(ID) { property: bla} blocks which each add different properties to the same cargo
07:45<@planetmaker>which you can do for every feature
07:45<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s5C8.png some more station names :P
07:47<@planetmaker>toyland! :)
07:47<@planetmaker>what kind of industries do you work on?
07:48<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s5CK.txt
07:48<@planetmaker>cool :)
07:49<@planetmaker>I think my favourite is the "stardust collector" :)
07:50<nielsm>I'm open to suggestions for how to make the rest a bit more magical too
07:52<nielsm>pack of current version: https://0x0.st/s5CN.zip
07:52<nielsm>(requires patched nml to compile, since I'm using the new syntax for industry cargo_types and produce cb
07:58<@planetmaker>I have coal mins in the sea :D
07:59<nielsm>graphics is pretty broken atm ;)
08:00<@planetmaker>(butcher, candy drill). But sure, that's the default for unavailable graphics. Expected for WIP
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08:12<andythenorth>oof, this thread is dangerous for Horse http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14790-imaginary-locomotives/page-53
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08:30<@Alberth>:)
08:40<andythenorth>meh
08:40<andythenorth>photoshop has lost the filesystem refs for the current open files
08:40<andythenorth>and it's drawing error artefacts
08:43<nielsm>...why is it not disabling all the default trains
08:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7005: Fix #7004: Redraw linkgraph overlay correctly after zoom https://git.io/fhtUO
08:46<andythenorth>nielsm: have you set them all to disable? o_O
08:46*andythenorth asks the obvious
08:47<nielsm>disable_item(FEAT_TRAINS, 0, 115); -- yet https://0x0.st/s5Ca.png
08:47<nielsm>(the crossed out are the ones I expected to be gone)
08:48<andythenorth>? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/templates/header.pynml#L46
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>more than one newgrf loaded?
08:48<nielsm>ah yes...
08:48<nielsm>thanks Eddi|zuHause
08:49<nielsm>now I get what I expected :)
08:50<nielsm>I did have "old wagons new cargoes" loaded, forgot about it since it didn't actually do anything in toyland
08:50<nielsm>except just re-enable everything
09:02<@planetmaker>nielsm, you need to explicitly disable them all
09:02<@planetmaker>hm
09:02<@planetmaker>you seem to hav done so
09:04<nielsm>yes it was as eddi suggested, I had another grf loaded that "broke" things
09:05<@planetmaker>I was just slow in reading-back :)
09:09<nielsm>https://0x0.st/s5Cu.png
09:09<nielsm>wooh
09:09<nielsm>graphics so broken here too :D
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09:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fhtXA
09:34<@planetmaker> hm... I think I missed sth
09:35<@planetmaker>CB 2A/2C needs some extension or replacement. Or is there?
09:36<@planetmaker>and 2E
09:36<@planetmaker>though... no, 2E should be fine
09:39<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6872: Add: Houses can accept up to 16 different cargo types via NewGRF https://git.io/fht1t
09:41<@planetmaker>nielsm, NUM_CARGO is of type CargoID. So I disagree with your disagreement
09:41<V453000>Happy new year yo!
09:41<@planetmaker>cargo_type.h:66
09:41<@planetmaker>happy new year :)
09:42<V453000>:0 pm alive
09:42<V453000>hi :)
09:42<nielsm>planetmaker, that's the highest allowed CargoID value
09:42<@planetmaker>hey :) how're you? :)
09:43<nielsm>that's different from the number of slots for CargoID values that can be accepted by a tile
09:43<@planetmaker>nielsm, and you can never accept more cargoes than there are cargoes
09:43<andythenorth>V453000: alive :o
09:44<V453000>I'm great, but Factorio has completely consumed my life. :D I don't even log into IRC anymore :( which is a bit sad, but I'm here now! :D How is OpenTTD and you?
09:45<Samu>I can create hierarchy groups
09:45<Samu>but can't undo it
09:45<Samu>is that intended?
09:46<@planetmaker>nielsm, and from comparison, stuff seems to be handled similar in e.g. industries_type.h has no const ints or so for numbers
09:46<@planetmaker>which define maximumsx
09:46<Samu>and AIs don't seem to have access to this hierarchy feature
09:47<@planetmaker>on your argument it uses int for NUM_INPUTS and OUTPUTS...
09:54<@planetmaker>but it should be an uint constant, I think :) anyway... does that CB for accepted cargoes need modification? Or... is it not necessary?
10:06<Samu>uhm, my aircaft management is creating too many empty groups :(
10:08<@planetmaker>one group per route you service. And add new vehicles to that group via shared orders when it needs more vehicles
10:08<andythenorth>V453000: should we find you on Slack? o_O
10:09<Samu>emtpy groups belong to no route, this is the problem
10:10<V453000>we do use that weird thing at work, but I got quite used to using Discord for Factorio, but I'll try to come here more often :)
10:10<Samu>which means i need to do what LuDi has done to road routes
10:10<@planetmaker>there are discord2irc bridges available. So I am told
10:10<andythenorth>I never used Discord, but I probably should
10:10<andythenorth>push-to-talk seems winningest
10:11<Samu>an array of routes with all the variables
10:11<V453000>:0
10:11<Samu>properties
10:11<@planetmaker>I never got enough patience to checkout any discord2IRC bridge myself, though
10:13<TrueBrain>we switching to Discord you say? :P
10:13<TrueBrain>Slack is also fine by me
10:13<andythenorth>uh oh
10:13<andythenorth>it's TB
10:13<TrueBrain>both are prepared :P
10:13<TrueBrain>just say the word!
10:13<TrueBrain>happy new year all :)
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>we should totally switch the forum over to steam community pages!
10:13<andythenorth>HNY TB
10:13<andythenorth>what music shall I listen to next?
10:13<andythenorth>there may be a hangover
10:13<@planetmaker>we should have openttd on steam tbh
10:13<TrueBrain>Teletubbies
10:15<TrueBrain>I wonder what is needed to create a new release ..
10:15<@planetmaker>do we have normal builds?
10:16<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7002: Add: [Win32] regression testing with MSVC https://git.io/fhtMg
10:17<TrueBrain>"normal" :P
10:17<@planetmaker>nightly
10:17<TrueBrain>no
10:19<@planetmaker>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/release.diff <-- I find this diff ;)
10:20<TrueBrain>there are a lot of things we need to explore .. how to do 'release' branching in git(hub)
10:20<TrueBrain>how are we going to do the tags, etc
10:20<TrueBrain>we need a release pipeline
10:20<@planetmaker>yep... uncharted territory
10:20<TrueBrain>a place to store the resulting binaries
10:20<TrueBrain>hmm .. quiet a few things that need to be 'fixed' I guess
10:20<@planetmaker>you don't want openttd.org for that anymore?
10:20<TrueBrain>I do, but not the old infrastructure if possible
10:21<@planetmaker>btw... we got a bill from digital ocean today
10:21<TrueBrain>yup
10:21<TrueBrain>auto-paid via CC
10:21<@planetmaker>I find it interesting that they set the due date to the date of issuing the bill
10:22<TrueBrain>didnt notice ;) Guess that is because it is paid via CC?
10:23<Samu>LuDi was right!
10:23<Samu>that guy was an expert
10:24<TrueBrain>planetmaker: btw, these emails with the bill will arrive every month now
10:24<Samu>only needed 1 version to have the right management code
10:24<@planetmaker>I figured as much ;)
10:25<TrueBrain>hmm .. should we also publish our binaries on GitHub under releases?
10:25<TrueBrain>the more places we put stuff, the harder it is to track download numbers
10:25<TrueBrain>but .. is that really something we need to track
10:25<TrueBrain>we know millions of people play OpenTTD .. not sure that metric is still relevant :)
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10:26<@planetmaker>I really would like a pipeline to steam. I think that would give us definitely some extra audience
10:26<@planetmaker>and make it easy for folks to update
10:26<TrueBrain>possibly also good to look into Epic Games Launcher too
10:26<TrueBrain>and Windows Store is already done
10:26<TrueBrain>but itmight be good that we document that a bit better
10:27<TrueBrain>as I am not sure how many people know how to publish a new version on Windows Store
10:27<@planetmaker>1?
10:27<@planetmaker>I think we have a wiki for that purpose which could document it. Minus the credentials
10:27<TrueBrain>any place would be a good place :D
10:27<@planetmaker>everyone knows wiki
10:27<TrueBrain>for me, the wiki has become one big noise-box
10:28<TrueBrain>I dont trust any information on it :D
10:28<TrueBrain>pretty sure a lot of information is out-dated :)
10:28<@planetmaker>don't need to. But this stuff would be ideal there
10:28<@planetmaker>I wouldn't trust any other info either to (still) work
10:28<TrueBrain>at least a markdown page telling what steps to take :P
10:28<@planetmaker>same problem, different place(s)
10:28<TrueBrain>either way, documented somewhere public
10:28<TrueBrain>I guess we agree on that :D
10:29<@planetmaker>^^
10:29<TrueBrain>so, who wants to figure out Steam, Epic, document Windows Store, etc?
10:29<@planetmaker>and easily updated -> wiki :)
10:29<Samu>openttd on steam? omg nooo
10:29<@planetmaker>hm... I'm reluctant to make promises I might not be able to keep :D
10:29<TrueBrain>if you really want to continue this talk: the world moved away from wikis in general; I wonder if it is the proper place for procedures :)
10:30<@planetmaker>did it?
10:30<TrueBrain>might be good to have a repository for these kind of things, simply listing how to do shit
10:30<@planetmaker>but yes, could be in our OpentTD repo, too
10:30<TrueBrain>lot of modern projects have a 'doc' repository
10:30<TrueBrain>where people contribute their stuff
10:30<@planetmaker>just add another directory for extended documentation and ... ^
10:30<TrueBrain>(via PRs)
10:30<TrueBrain>pretty modern :)
10:31<@planetmaker>advantage: everything in one place. Agreed
10:31<TrueBrain>issue with wikis, as it turned out, you cannot trust the information :P
10:31<TrueBrain>its funny how things change over time :D
10:32<Samu>path of exile uses gamepedia
10:33<andythenorth>I like docs in repos
10:33<TrueBrain>gameplay manuals are fine as a wiki
10:33<Samu>i think it can extract most things from the game via API
10:33<TrueBrain>procedures ... not so much :D
10:33<andythenorth>docs is one of those perennial issues, like formatting :P
10:33<TrueBrain>either way, I like the idea planetmaker, more exposure
10:33<andythenorth>but I prefer version controlled docs, with clear history
10:34<TrueBrain>so in that care publishing the files on GitHub is also a good idea
10:34<TrueBrain>s/care/case
10:34<@planetmaker>andythenorth, we agreed on: add it to repo :P
10:34<@planetmaker>however wikis have history, too ;)
10:34<TrueBrain>DigitalOcean has 'spaces', which is just a fancy CDN :)
10:34<@planetmaker>but more hassle
10:34<TrueBrain>guess we can use that as primary hub
10:34<@planetmaker>"agreed upon" :P
10:35<andythenorth>shall I update the wiki to say that docs should not go in wiki? o_O
10:35<TrueBrain>lets first build the alternative ;)
10:35<andythenorth>oof
10:35<andythenorth>we only had a few non-conformities for ISO 27001
10:35<@planetmaker>not yet
10:35<andythenorth>the funny one was
10:35<andythenorth>we changed the change control process
10:35<andythenorth>but we didn't have change control for that change
10:35<TrueBrain>(like EVERYONE here knows what ISO 27001 is about :P)
10:36<andythenorth>I am talking to an audience of 1 or 2
10:36<andythenorth>:P
10:36<@planetmaker>of course :P
10:36<TrueBrain>:D
10:36<andythenorth>our auditor has special skills to find the thing we did wrong :P
10:37<TrueBrain>its the reason his job exists
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10:37<andythenorth>her *
10:37<andythenorth>but yeah
10:37<TrueBrain>okay .. so the main thing I am missing for a new release (or nightlies for that matter), is a pipeline, and a webpage which helps you find the download
10:37<TrueBrain>pipeline is pretty easy; more a matter of figuring out
10:37<andythenorth>webpage needs some process?
10:38<andythenorth>we can't just code-generate a jekyll page?
10:38<TrueBrain>hmm
10:38<TrueBrain>interesting
10:38<TrueBrain>for some reason I did not consider that
10:38<andythenorth>I mean we could run some wsgi app thing
10:38<TrueBrain>no no, static pages are better :P
10:38<andythenorth>or we could template jekyll templates :P
10:38<Samu>openttd launcher
10:38<andythenorth>templating templates is such fun :P
10:38<TrueBrain>we have at most 1 release per day
10:38<TrueBrain>euh, 2 releases per day
10:38<TrueBrain>nightly + release
10:39<TrueBrain>so yeah, that can be static
10:39<andythenorth>use some dumb text replacement to inject vars to the jekyll pages
10:39<TrueBrain>we just need "something" to parse some "structure" to know what exists
10:39<andythenorth>or maybe it even supports injection at run time
10:39<TrueBrain>we can just make a script that creates a collection
10:39<TrueBrain>after that, run jekyll
10:39<TrueBrain>I mean, that part is pretty easy
10:39<andythenorth>this starts to look plausible https://gist.github.com/nicolashery/5756478
10:40<andythenorth>maybe not
10:40<andythenorth>I misread it
10:40<TrueBrain>also kinda is a solution for 'website', just generate a new version every night
10:40<TrueBrain>the only reason I wanted to avoid that, is because we store it on hub.docker.com, and you cannot set a "retention" there
10:41<TrueBrain>which means A LOT of dockers over time :P
10:41<TrueBrain>s/dockers/containers
10:41<andythenorth>TrueBrain: my assumption is we need to get some data into Jekyll for links etc?
10:41<TrueBrain>yeah, if we have a script that creates the collection
10:41<andythenorth>but do we publish binaries to a predictable naming format?
10:42<TrueBrain>yes; we have two things in place for that
10:42<TrueBrain>http://finger.openttd.org/versions.txt
10:42<TrueBrain>http://fr.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/1.8.0/released.txt
10:42<andythenorth>we'd need the rev number / hash / MD5 etc though hmm
10:42<TrueBrain>both allow any form of scripting to build everything we need
10:42<andythenorth>ok so Jekyll has all these hooks https://jekyllrb.com/docs/plugins/hooks/
10:43<TrueBrain>again, we can do this before jekyll :)
10:43<andythenorth>I was trying to shortcut by constructing predictable URLs in the template but nvm
10:43<@planetmaker>it's amazing what Valve wants to know when you try to register a dev account :D
10:43<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I don't follow?
10:43<TrueBrain>I was thinking just to create pages like 'screenshots' .. just not commited in git, but autogenerated on build?
10:43<andythenorth>it's fine, just trying to get my head around what's needed
10:44<TrueBrain>you have another suggestion that also works?
10:44<TrueBrain>(anything goes)
10:44<andythenorth>no, the collections idea is straightforward
10:44<andythenorth>injecting vars to jekyll is a sideshow, I just got distracted
10:44<TrueBrain>:D
10:45<TrueBrain>the only downside of "my" idea, is that it needs creating a container a lot and often
10:45<TrueBrain>the same 'git' version will result in different containers
10:45<TrueBrain>which is a bit of an anti-pattern
10:48<TrueBrain>planetmaker: lately I have been using info@ btw for any account signup (and only linked truebrain@ when they had "team" support after that)
10:48<TrueBrain>(hence the increased amount of emails in info@ from all kinds of companies :P)
10:48<@planetmaker>good practice, I say :)
10:48<TrueBrain>I thought so too ;)
10:49<TrueBrain>andythenorth: if we do a collection, it does solve the whole website problem, the remaining CABBAGES, not?
10:49<andythenorth>I reckon so
10:49<TrueBrain>(with the exception of server-listing)
10:49<TrueBrain>so all I need to do, is figure out how to do this properly with the Docker Hub
10:52<TrueBrain>the collection has to be 2D: projects / versions
10:52<TrueBrain>as we also list downloads for stuff like opengfx, etc
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10:52<TrueBrain>we used to offer URLs to make it easier to download specific versions
10:52<TrueBrain>I wonder how useful that is
10:53<@planetmaker>yep... OpenTTD, OpenGFX, OpenSFX, OpenMSX, grfcodec, nmlc(?), osie(?), strgen(?)
10:53<@planetmaker>I find it VERY useful to access older versions via direct URL
10:53<TrueBrain>you can always access them via the CDN, that is not the issue
10:54<TrueBrain>https://www.openttd.org/en/download-opengfx/0.5.0
10:54<TrueBrain>I mean that URL
10:54<TrueBrain>how useful is thatone?
10:54<@planetmaker>yes, I mean that. It's useful for auto-updaters or so. For people who need specific versions for specific servers or so
10:54<@planetmaker>it would break any auto-download or linking from servers to their required versions
10:54<TrueBrain>I dont see how it breaks auto-downloads, as they should never touch that URL
10:55<TrueBrain>we have different things for them in place
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10:55<TrueBrain>servers linking to versions I agree with
10:55<TrueBrain>I guess that makes the main question if that should also work for nightlies
10:55<@planetmaker>especially there it makes also sense
10:55<@planetmaker>no worries it the URL breaks when the download is gone
10:56<TrueBrain>so how long are we going to keep nightlies?
10:57<@planetmaker>3 month?
10:57<@planetmaker>2? 1?
10:57<TrueBrain>as long as we are fine with a preset amount, it is not an issue
10:57<TrueBrain>otherwise the collection will be HUGE :P
10:57<TrueBrain>okay, indeed, there are hits on specific versions
10:57<TrueBrain>(was looking in the access logs)
10:57<TrueBrain>1 in 20 orso
10:58<TrueBrain>crawlers mostly :D
10:58<@planetmaker>we never kept all nightlies. They were gone after some time
10:58<@planetmaker>maybe 90 versions
10:58<TrueBrain>yeah, 90d "officially" .. but it meant: 90+Nd, depending how lazy I am to run the script
10:58<TrueBrain>and I only run the script if we ran out of space on mirrors
10:59<TrueBrain>which we never do anymore, as I only mirror the latest version
10:59<TrueBrain>but as the CDN allows us to have any version available
10:59<TrueBrain>250GB of storage
10:59<TrueBrain>so yeah .. 90d fits fine
10:59<TrueBrain>90 versions might indeed be better
10:59<TrueBrain>k
11:00<TrueBrain>so that means that whenever we release something, either a nightly, a release, or anything else we offer a download page for, we need to trigger a new build of 'website'
11:00<TrueBrain>that is easy enough tbh
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11:01<TrueBrain>okay, that makes a lot of things a lot easier
11:01<TrueBrain>(I was about to write a dynamic application to do this ... but this is a much better idea; nice thinking andythenorth :D)
11:01<andythenorth>because I can't program
11:01<andythenorth>I often have to find low-code ways to do stuff :P
11:02<TrueBrain>Docker Hub has no retention policy what I can find
11:03<TrueBrain>so ... we need to have something that cleans up once in a while
11:03<TrueBrain>just to be a good neighbour
11:04<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I am curious if we can automate Steam .. having a new nightly there every night might be valuable .. but if it is manual ... :D
11:05<TrueBrain>0.5.2 2015-04-12 extra/opengfx <- how old is opengfx? :P
11:05<TrueBrain>(2015-04-12)
11:05<TrueBrain>damn
11:05<TrueBrain>we also have to make repositories for a few of these things, I see
11:05<TrueBrain>and a new finger format ..
11:06<TrueBrain>asking questions for the fact of asking questions: do we want to offer these download URLs for patchpacks too on openttd.org ?
11:16<TrueBrain>the silence is killing! :P
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11:21<TrueBrain>right, lets first wrap around our current infrastructure; we can extend later :)
11:21<TrueBrain>andythenorth: what are the odds that if I make the collection available, you can make the pages that come with them? :P
11:21<TrueBrain>first, food!
11:22<andythenorth>TrueBrain: some
11:22<andythenorth>less CABBAGE
11:22<andythenorth>I was sick for like 1 hour in the night time though :P
11:22<andythenorth>self inflicted
11:24<andythenorth>hmm
11:24<andythenorth>liveries per train? o_O
11:39<Samu>i found a bug
11:40<Samu>https://imgur.com/LpDo72c
11:40<Samu>it says it's not a drive through road station tile
11:40<Samu>but it is
11:40<Samu>@calc 0x10345
11:40<@DorpsGek>Samu: 66373
11:41<Samu>seems to happen only during savegame load
11:41<Samu>or script load
11:42<Samu>or maybe not, as i seem to repeat the code even after the load
11:42<Samu>would still say it's not a drive through road station tile
11:43<Samu>must investigate
11:47<andythenorth>this is why I wanted liveries per vehicle group :D https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1216810#p1216810
11:48<Samu>https://imgur.com/trOmlOj - this is when i restarted the AI, now it says it's articulated viable, because it just built it
11:48<Samu>seems to be the savegame being corrupted?
11:48<Samu>or not storing the correct information?
11:49<Samu>this is 1.8.0 btw
11:55<Samu>ah sheesh, false alarm, seems to be the wrong road type information
11:55<Samu>it's trying to look for tram for some reason
11:56<Samu>good thing I investigated
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12:00<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, I'm curious as to that, too.
12:00<@planetmaker>(whether steam can be automated)
12:00<Samu>problem solved, that was it
12:00<Samu>AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType(AIRoad.ROADTYPE_ROAD);
12:01<@planetmaker>I looked around there some weeks ago in order to investigate. I wasn't exactly successful in finding out... but I got the impression that it should be feasible
12:01<@planetmaker>I guess I got to register an account for OpenTTD there... But the problem is... before you actually can do anything, you gotta pay a one-off fee... or so it seems.
12:01<@planetmaker>which is 100$ IIRC
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12:03<Gabda>hi!
12:04<Gabda>is there an easy way to checkout a PR from github without adding the commiter's repo as a new remote?
12:04<nielsm>as far as I know, no
12:04<Gabda>it was a fast and disappointing answer :(
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12:07<@planetmaker>doesn't simply work git fetch URL?
12:14<Gabda>it doesn't, it says it couldn't find the remote
12:17<Gabda>ok, I found an easy way, it is possible without adding a new remote
12:17<LordAro>https://help.github.com/articles/checking-out-pull-requests-locally/
12:17<LordAro>google is hard
12:17<LordAro>;l
12:17<LordAro>;)*
12:19<Gabda>i found this one as well, but I was looking for the "active" part, but couldn't see that anywhere
12:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot opened pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/fht9w
12:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot commented on pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/fht9r
12:19<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot closed pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/fpoPl
12:19<Gabda>but the "inactive" part works well :)
12:19<LordAro>ono
12:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot opened pull request #17: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/fht9o
12:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot commented on pull request #16: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/fht9K
12:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot closed pull request #16: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/fpoPB
12:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot opened pull request #12: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/fht9i
12:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot commented on pull request #11: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/fht9P
12:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] pyup-bot closed pull request #11: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/fpoPE
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>scheduled monthly spam
12:25<LordAro>mhmm
12:25<LordAro>TB should do something about them :p
12:37<TrueBrain>the only thing I am going to do about it, is enjoy them :D
12:38<TrueBrain>bah, new libarary
12:38<TrueBrain>this takes more effort :P
12:39<LordAro>:p
12:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on issue #6438: raising/lowering 'Maximum no. competitors' setting in multiplayer https://git.io/fhtHz
12:45<Samu>oh, a comment on my issue
12:45<Samu>cool stuff
12:46<Samu>meanwhile I'm waiting for the ai to reach 5000 road vehicles
12:46<Gabda>it is a nice issue, and easy to reproduce
12:46<Gabda>and I think a deep one
12:50<Samu>testing eGRVTS v2.0 - r188 with my ai
12:50<Samu>started in year 1700
12:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhtHD
12:50<Samu>the "25 road vehicles per route" rule is bad with this newgrf
12:56<Samu>it's averaging 38-42 per route when i leave it in auto
12:57<andythenorth>Wolf01: finished it already? :o https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/169286-6-axis-arm/
13:17<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, so, from our friends from wesnoth: steam offers a command line client which of course can be used in scripts. So automatic upload is possible
13:25<TrueBrain>who is wesnoth?
13:25<TrueBrain>but that is good news :)
13:27<TrueBrain>now how to build this collection .. hmm .. difficult
13:30<TrueBrain>planetmaker: btw, I dont see an issue with that 100 dollar if it is a one-time fee .. something orudge should be able to arrange :)
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13:36<@planetmaker>www.wesnoth.org. Probably the nicest-looking strategy game there is
13:36<@planetmaker>and probably with the biggest community. Bigger than ours. Speaking of open source
13:38<TrueBrain>never saw that name before :D
13:38<TrueBrain>sorry :P
13:39<TrueBrain>so a community to look how to do things, you say ... :D
13:39<@planetmaker>concerning the 100$: I agree. But it has to be agreed-upon :) And indeed I say that :P Or at least a look doesn't hurt
13:39<@planetmaker>We play in the same league, so might learn from eachother
13:40<Borg>how I can get current quater value?
13:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7002: Add: [Win32] regression testing with MSVC https://git.io/fhtQx
13:41<@planetmaker>value of what?
13:43<Borg>current quater number..
13:43<Borg>first one is 0 probably
13:43<Borg>yeah.. I can calculate it myself teoretically..
13:44<@planetmaker>eh... we have quarters anywhere?
13:44-!-Wacko1976 [~IceChat9@027-161-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:44<Borg>static Money GSCompany::GetQuarterlyCompanyValue
13:44<Borg>here for example
13:44<Borg>CURRENT_QUARTER
13:44<Borg>but.. what is it value?
13:45<@Alberth>look at the date, first 3 months is 1st quarter, 2nd 3 mionths 2nd quarter, etc
13:46<@Alberth>not unlike RL :)
13:47<Borg>yeah.. thats what I can do..
13:47<Borg>but still weird we dont have function for that..
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13:50<@Alberth>functions only exist for information that is needed somewhere
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13:50<@Alberth>apparently this information is not needed
13:55<@planetmaker>There's a reason AI and GS libraries exist
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14:14<andythenorth>oof
14:14<andythenorth>who plays on maps bigger than 512x256?
14:14<andythenorth>I get the fear even at 512x512
14:14<TrueBrain>andythenorth: another minor issue .. https://www.staging.openttd.org/screenshots/1.4-cargodist.html <- title of document is a bit weird
14:14<TrueBrain>you would expect something like: OpenTTD | Screenshots | 1.4 Cargodist
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14:14<TrueBrain>not sure if that is possible :)
14:14<andythenorth>I'll look
14:15<TrueBrain>(I now have the same issue for downloads :D)
14:15<andythenorth>:P
14:15<TrueBrain>basically, you expect the title to be a crumblepath
14:15<andythenorth>yes
14:15*andythenorth wonders if NRT is merged yet :P
14:15<TrueBrain>should we merge it before or after 1.9 is branched? :)
14:15<TrueBrain>if you merge now, we need a good solid window for user-testing
14:16<TrueBrain>something to consider :)
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14:17<andythenorth>2.0 :P
14:17<andythenorth>it had a lot of testing in older versions, due to the binaries you were building
14:17*andythenorth forks website and stuff
14:18<TrueBrain>okay, downloads is working .. just the data is not auto-generated yet :D
14:18<TrueBrain>andythenorth: can a page read the conten tof another page, that you know?
14:18<TrueBrain>all 'stable' download pages have the same header
14:18<TrueBrain>but it is different from 'catcodec', to name one
14:19<TrueBrain>I want to write that content once, and use it where possible
14:19<TrueBrain>hmm .. new collection, I guess
14:19<TrueBrain>or, data!
14:19<andythenorth>I don't know if that can be done in vanilla jekyll
14:19<andythenorth>but it can definitely be done
14:20<TrueBrain>hmm .. data doesnt have markdown
14:20<andythenorth>you could write frontmatter vars into something, and read it
14:20<andythenorth>or there's all the hooks and plugins
14:21*andythenorth changes the remote on local checkout, that's nice
14:21<LordAro>mm, i'd suggest there's not enough testing (and fixing) time for NRT if it's merged now
14:21<andythenorth>it's the fixing that bothers me
14:21<andythenorth>when are we building binaries for it? o_O
14:22<andythenorth>and where will we publish them?
14:22<andythenorth>oh...
14:22<andythenorth>wait :P
14:22<nielsm>random note to add to catcodec downloads: the program does not work with the dos music cat files, only the sound effect files
14:23<andythenorth>ha ha Jekyll's only dumb feature so far: _dir_names
14:23<TrueBrain>nielsm: please queue that in an internal stack; soon you can make a PR for that :D
14:24<TrueBrain>andythenorth: what is that?
14:24<andythenorth>means I can't navigate to them on keys
14:25<TrueBrain>`{% assign type = page.id | split: "/" | slice: 2 %}`
14:25<TrueBrain>curious if that is a good idea ..
14:25<andythenorth>if the dir is named 'layouts' I can press 's' to select the dir in file browser
14:25<andythenorth>they're all '_foo' so I can't :P
14:25<andythenorth>nvm
14:25<andythenorth>it probably works
14:25<andythenorth>I have a branch and was lookign for a better way
14:25<andythenorth>slices like that are usually fragile
14:25<andythenorth>and page titles often fail un-noticed
14:25<nielsm>(I tried working on a program to produce new files like gm.cat but with a bit too much ambition I got stuck and lost interest again)
14:26<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I need it to match my subdirectory in the collection to the meta information I have :P
14:27<andythenorth>seems fair
14:31<TrueBrain>10 minutes of debugging later .. right .. I have to restart 'serve' if I add a collection
14:31<TrueBrain>*facepalm*
14:31<andythenorth>oof
14:31<andythenorth>config needs reloaded no?
14:31<TrueBrain>it detects it changed, not?
14:34<LordAro>not in production mode? or is that some other site generator?
14:35<andythenorth>I didn't see any resolution to this https://github.com/jekyll/jekyll/issues/2302#issuecomment-118544758
14:35<andythenorth>TL;DR config.yml doesn't auto-reload, at least in 2015
14:35<Borg>hmmmm
14:35<Borg>HMMMMMM
14:35<Borg>a new idea popped in
14:35<Borg>and I need help w/ it...
14:35<Borg>Transfer Industry!
14:36<andythenorth>?? o_O
14:36<Borg>well.. I always dreamed for coop games
14:36<Borg>so one player sends cargo to another..
14:36<andythenorth>oil rig station
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>not really how industries work...
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14:37<Borg>and it seems the only way to do it.. would be via industry that accepts and produces same cargo
14:37<Borg>Eddi|zuHause: nah. it can be all done w/ production CB..
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>there is the infrastructure sharing patch
14:37<andythenorth>TrueBrain: do you want 'News' to be a crumble too?
14:37<andythenorth>also https://github.com/andythenorth/website/commits/truebraincrumbs
14:37<andythenorth>Borg: seems reasonable
14:37<nielsm>you'd have station rating losses with a "sharing industry" though
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>but it has problems with payment
14:37<nielsm>and it wouldn't work together with cdist
14:37<andythenorth>only about 31% losses
14:37<TrueBrain>andythenorth: sounds like a good idea, not?
14:38<andythenorth>I'll do it
14:38<TrueBrain>ah, nice solution :D
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>nielsm: cargodist should be fine, but if you're routing through an industry every player needs to make sure they are using "unload and leave empty" orders to not pick up cargo they just delivered
14:38<andythenorth>classic
14:39<TrueBrain>meh; why is ".id" a full path
14:39<TrueBrain>I just want the filename
14:40<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth opened pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs https://git.io/fht58
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>Borg: imho industries are the wrong hacky workaround for this
14:40<TrueBrain>wait, there is .. it is called "label" lol
14:40<andythenorth>TrueBrain: there are iirc filters for that
14:40<andythenorth>or that var
14:40<TrueBrain>why this ", because TrueBrain" :(
14:41<andythenorth>to see you make that face mostly
14:41<Borg>Eddi|zuHause: yeah.. you are right.. we should have transfer stations for that :D
14:41<TrueBrain>:( now fix it :P
14:41<Borg>but... as a workaround.. it might be not bad :) w/ transfer industry
14:41<Borg>Ill think more abou tit
14:41<andythenorth>Borg: just use industries, the losses are 'wastage'
14:41<andythenorth>theft
14:41<Borg>andythenorth: I cant
14:41<Borg>on my current server.. I cant reach oil rigs
14:42<Borg>help from other player would be neat
14:42<Borg>we play sectorized OpenTTD :D
14:42<Borg>more fun and chalenging
14:42<andythenorth>no, I mean do your production cb idea
14:42<andythenorth>it's fine
14:42<Borg>andythenorth: ahh :)
14:42<Borg>yeah.. small loses will be the cost of transfer :D
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14:43<TrueBrain>and ... the docker broke again :(
14:43<TrueBrain>will check in a moment why
14:43<Borg>how many industries (custom) I can add?
14:43<Borg>is there a limit?
14:43<TrueBrain>this ruby stuff is not very stable is it :(
14:44<andythenorth>oh FFS, I thought I could rebase to edit that commit
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>a "transfer industry" like that could make use of the 16 cargos per industry stuff
14:44<andythenorth>but the rebase doesn't save any change to the commits
14:44<andythenorth>I am going right off my use of git
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: huh? surely rebasing should allow editing
14:45<TrueBrain>git rebase -i upstream/master
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise how are you going to solve conflicts?
14:45<Borg>Eddi|zuHause: how? :) production CB can handle only 3 in 2 out..
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>Borg: i think that's a work in progress
14:45<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's a user issue
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14:46<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs https://git.io/fht58
14:46<Borg>Eddi|zuHause: oh.. ok
14:49<TrueBrain>finally, got my download-meta to work
14:49<TrueBrain>that was interesting :D
14:50<TrueBrain>right, now first, why is this docker broken again ..
14:54<andythenorth>:|
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14:55<andythenorth>fixed the commit btw
14:57<TrueBrain>I really really do not understand Ruby :(
14:58<TrueBrain>http_parser is for some reason disapeared or something
14:58<LordAro>looks like something needs a verbose flag :p
14:58<andythenorth>I have no clue, but what broke?
14:59<TrueBrain>installing Jekyll fails, because it cannot find http_parser.rb-0.6.0
14:59<TrueBrain>while it is there
14:59<TrueBrain>worked yesterday, broke today
15:00<TrueBrain>manually installing work .. lol
15:01<andythenorth>oof airports
15:01<andythenorth>planetmaker: is ogfx+ airports your work? :)
15:01<TrueBrain>Dockers should make things more reproducable :(
15:03<@planetmaker>andythenorth, mostly, yes
15:03<andythenorth>is nice
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15:03<andythenorth>is there any way to have larger airports, with grass tiles?
15:04<andythenorth>like small airport can have concrete
15:04<@planetmaker>yes and no
15:04<TrueBrain>so 'gem install' works but 'bundle install' does not .. hmm
15:04<andythenorth>planetmaker: needs the sprites?
15:04<@planetmaker>the state-machine is tied to the upper-left(?) tile. You can define the airport as you like, but vehicles will follow the state-machines
15:04<andythenorth>I just want to swap sprites
15:05<@planetmaker>you can define it with holes in it (and actually I did for one or two where it allows that).
15:05<andythenorth>grass version of commuter airport
15:05<@planetmaker>And you can make irregular layouts, put sprites as you want
15:05<@planetmaker>works basically like industries or objects
15:05<LordAro>TrueBrain: i don't really understand the difference between gem & bundle
15:05<TrueBrain>I don't understand Ruby :D
15:06<LordAro>:p
15:06<andythenorth>isn't it just the usual packaging shit?
15:06<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I don't quite understand: are you requesting some specific airport?
15:06<andythenorth>yes :)
15:07<@planetmaker>Currently they should re-use the ground sprites from the tiles they are build upon, iirc
15:07<andythenorth>the 'small' airport has both grass version and concrete version
15:07<andythenorth>I hoped for same for 'commuter'
15:07<@planetmaker>ah
15:07<andythenorth>for use in countryside :P
15:07<TrueBrain>yeah, bundle helps piining versions
15:07<TrueBrain>so you know what is installed
15:07<andythenorth>it's just all the same crap as python, with same issues
15:08<TrueBrain>except that I somewhat understand pypi
15:08<TrueBrain>I do not understand this :D
15:14<andythenorth>commuter airport seems to have highest throughput?
15:14*andythenorth trying to get a lot of small planes moved in 1920
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15:18<@planetmaker>hm... my current version DOES have 'Small, Modern Small, Vintage Commmuter and Commuter airports
15:19<andythenorth>oh maybe I have an old one?
15:20<andythenorth>0.4.2
15:20<andythenorth>last release
15:21<andythenorth>wonder if the bundles version is safe to use
15:22<@planetmaker>https://cloud.planetmaker.de/index.php/s/BG4m4w9F2wLHt3K <-- like that?
15:23<andythenorth>very and exactly that :)
15:24<andythenorth>oops
15:24<TrueBrain>okay, it is only 2 packages that fail .. hmm
15:24<andythenorth>don't add that to a running game :D
15:29<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbpxyn75a <-- seems I should just release the current dev version as... 0.4.3 or so :)
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15:30<andythenorth>seaplane port :D
15:30<@planetmaker>which cannot be built on water :D
15:31<@planetmaker>it's visible in the screenshot as well. There used to be one NewGRF (by Pikka?) which had a sea plane
15:31<andythenorth>these airports are great :)
15:31<andythenorth>just need grass large and hub ones :P
15:32*andythenorth could check out the repo
15:32<@planetmaker>grass large and hub :D
15:32<@planetmaker>you could simply download the current dev build from bundles server
15:32<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/airportsplus/nightlies/
15:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #6: Fix: for yet-unknown-reasons 'bundle install' no longer installs http_parser.rb and safe_yaml https://git.io/fhtFt
15:33<andythenorth>I got the one from push
15:33<andythenorth>had to throw away my savegame, but eh
15:33<TrueBrain>right .. this should "work again"
15:34<TrueBrain>hmm .. I want to make a collection out of collections
15:35<andythenorth>ha
15:35<andythenorth>turtles
15:36<TrueBrain>yup
15:36<TrueBrain>as now I want to know the latest version in openttd-releases of the downloads collection
15:36<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #6: Fix: for yet-unknown-reasons 'bundle install' no longer installs http_parser.rb and safe_yaml https://git.io/fhtFt
15:36<TrueBrain>andythenorth: you can rebase now and push again
15:37<TrueBrain>we can also make a collection per download type ..
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15:37<TrueBrain>possibly a bit cleaner
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15:38<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs https://git.io/fht58
15:38<TrueBrain>no, that just looks very weird
15:41<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs https://git.io/fhtFE
15:41<andythenorth>TrueBrain: is there an ascii art tree diagram of what you're trying to do? o_O
15:41<andythenorth>or shall I just leave you to it?
15:42<TrueBrain>I am just fiddling with how to do downloads the best/easiest
15:42<TrueBrain>so also toying with Jekyll :D
15:42<TrueBrain>I now made a collection 'downloads'
15:42<TrueBrain>in which I put a folder 'openttd-release'
15:42<TrueBrain>and 'openttd-nightly'
15:42<TrueBrain>in there, md files with information about the release
15:42<TrueBrain>that seems to be working fine
15:43<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #5: Truebraincrumbs https://git.io/fht58
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15:46<TrueBrain>just I now want to find the latest openttd-release version .. that means I need to filter on an id like /downloads/openttd-release
15:46<TrueBrain>which feels odd
15:46<TrueBrain>andythenorth: can you use variables in the header? So I can use a variable in section_title?
15:46<andythenorth>I'm not sure
15:47<andythenorth>I don't know if it will cascade
15:47<TrueBrain>meh; goldplating
15:47<TrueBrain>looks good btw, crumble like this
15:47<TrueBrain>lot better :)
15:47<andythenorth>if it's just symbol replacement, vars might work
15:47<andythenorth>these languages are usually pretty simple and just replace symbols :P
15:48<andythenorth>but simple is preferable
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15:55<TrueBrain>hmm, we have 'stable' and 'testing' I guess
15:57<@planetmaker>actually we used to have 'stable', 'testing' and 'nightly'
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15:57<@planetmaker>where 'stable' is release, 'testing' is a released beta or rc-version. And nightly... well... just that
16:05<TrueBrain>that is what I meant, yes :)
16:05<TrueBrain>but both 'stable' and 'testing' are 'releases', which is a bit annoying :P
16:05<Borg>btw, anyone addressed this already? http://ds-1.ovh.uu3.net/~borg/tmp/openttd_ind_repaint.png
16:05<TrueBrain>(nightlies are too, but those are easy to explain)
16:06<TrueBrain>but I found a nice solution :D
16:06<TrueBrain>I think ......
16:06<TrueBrain>(releases btw we keep forever)
16:08<TrueBrain>andythenorth: https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD-website/commit/34c8735cfefd126e583ad0fc20f6cf7c8702f8b8
16:08<TrueBrain>how did I do?
16:09*andythenorth tests it
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16:09<andythenorth>oh it's not a PR yet
16:10<andythenorth>it's good that you alphabetised the collections in config.yml
16:10<TrueBrain>:D
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16:10<TrueBrain>the css and js are a copy of the current work btw
16:10<TrueBrain>didnt touch those
16:11<andythenorth>hmm I add you as a remote, and cherrypick your commit maybe? :P
16:11*andythenorth 'my first git' still
16:11<andythenorth>after like 7 years
16:11<TrueBrain>it is a branch, so you can switch to it after you add mine as remote, yes
16:12<TrueBrain>there is one commit before mine that fixes stuff :D
16:12<@planetmaker>Borg, and what is to address there? It's a screenshot
16:12<Borg>planetmaker: there is draw issue, look at Net power: <NUM> <- distorted.. in power plant
16:12<andythenorth>the repaint on industry prod amounts
16:12<Borg>yeah..
16:13<andythenorth>I thought frosch fixed that
16:13<TrueBrain>owh, I need to stort on the date, I see
16:13<Borg>andythenorth: its 1.8.0
16:13<andythenorth>lot of commits recently though, I'm not checking :P
16:13<Borg>if its in nighty.. then its ok :)
16:13<andythenorth>it was happening for me as well, some time ago
16:13<andythenorth>haven't seen it recently
16:13<TrueBrain>can Jekyll convert byte to things like MiB/KiB, depending on the size ..
16:13-!-Wacko1976 [~IceChat9@027-161-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit []
16:13<Borg>andythenorth: in 1.8.0 it happens still at least for NewGRF texts
16:14<andythenorth>TrueBrain: I'll look
16:16<@planetmaker>103 minutes left for me :P
16:16<andythenorth>TrueBrain: this suggests handling it ourselves, but I'm still reading docs https://stackoverflow.com/questions/52255235/convert-human-readable-file-size-to-bytes-in-ruby
16:16<andythenorth>planetmaker: until?
16:16<andythenorth>you explode?
16:17<@planetmaker>until my commit from 30 minutes ago becomes invalid :P
16:17<@planetmaker>the update to ogfx-airports changelog
16:19<andythenorth>TrueBrain: can't find anything :)
16:20<@planetmaker>it's bad habit to have such changes rotting for years without publishing them
16:20<TrueBrain>string_of_size is suggested
16:20<@planetmaker>I really have to learn again how I can actually draw more skidd marks when the airport is in heavy usage :D
16:20<@planetmaker>I didn't even guess anymore that it's possible ;)
16:20<TrueBrain>andythenorth: but that doesn't work .. lame :(
16:21<andythenorth>:(
16:21-!-Borg [~borg@87-99-43-52.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Quit: nite]
16:21<TrueBrain>ah, jekyll-octopod does
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16:22<TrueBrain>bit much, a dep for 1 filter :D
16:26<andythenorth>:P
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16:28<TrueBrain>ha
16:28<TrueBrain>solved it :D
16:28<TrueBrain>(took that single function and put it in a local plugin)
16:29<TrueBrain>that looks a lot better
16:29<TrueBrain>right, so the URLs are a bit different .. every project will have NNN-releases
16:29<TrueBrain>and they can have NNN-nightlies
16:29<TrueBrain>if they exist
16:29<TrueBrain>I just wonder .. openttd-releases or openttd-release .. what looks better in the URL?
16:30<andythenorth>potato / potato
16:30<andythenorth>I favour releases
16:30<andythenorth>there are n of them?
16:30<TrueBrain>screenshots is also plural, so yeah
16:30<TrueBrain>okay ... seems to me I only have to script the rest together
16:31<TrueBrain>nightlies are a bit weird, as they are also called 'trunk' currently
16:31<TrueBrain>if this works .... gonna be great :D
16:31<TrueBrain>but first I have to get some sleep, as I have to work tomorrow :(
16:31<TrueBrain>night all!
16:31<andythenorth>+1
16:31<andythenorth>bye
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17:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #6983: Feature: Town name filtering https://git.io/fhtAj
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17:36<@planetmaker>ups... forgot --dry-run. Well. I guess we have a new release of OpenGFX+ Airports :) Enjoy!
17:37<LordAro>ha
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>what? other people try to not push right to production? :p
17:39<+glx>or prevent it by requiring PR
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18:16<@planetmaker>hm... how annoying... the full screen functionality of OpenTTD doesn't play well (anymore). It messes with my 2-screen-setup
18:29<Xaroth>awwww
18:30<Xaroth>first world problems :P
18:32<@planetmaker>it's annoying when OpenTTD changes it to 'mirrored'
18:32<@planetmaker>:P
18:32<@planetmaker>and there seems to be no custom screen size anymore. But now there's many more screen sizes to choose from
18:32<@planetmaker>so ... something driver-side likely changed :)
18:33<@planetmaker>definitely not 1st-world-problem ;)
18:56<Samu>3582
18:59<@planetmaker>hm?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, they're surely going to complain about multi-screen-setup not working in the 3rd world
19:01<@planetmaker>definitely :P
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19:39<Samu>@calc 154 * 25
19:39<@DorpsGek>Samu: 3850
20:01<Samu>https://imgur.com/h3E0Gu4 it's impossible to work with autorenew
20:04<Samu>when I think i have everything under control, stupid errors popup out of nowhere
20:10<Samu>it's amazing what autorenew can screw
20:11<Samu>this updateEngine loop is one of the fastest loops I have atm, and for each route it creates a list of vehicles that are checked against 3 groups
20:12<Samu>and still the vehicle poofed in the middle of a for cycle
20:14<Samu>looping the entire 150 routes takes about 30-50 ticks
20:15<Samu>@calc 50/150
20:15<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.333333333333
20:15<Samu>1 tick is all it takes
20:15<Samu>to get screwed by autorenew
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20:20<Samu>I don't know what to do anymore
20:22<Samu>shared orders, vehicle groups, tried and tried, but nothing works with autorenew turned on
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21:02<Samu>just to make sure, i'm disabling autorenew, to see if it happens again
21:05<Samu>also disabled autoreplace in the code as well
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21:16<Samu>Zuu, are you around?
21:16<Samu>what to do!
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23:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin updated pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhLFX
23:08<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhqTM
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 02 00:00:03 2019