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#openttd IRC Logs for 2019-02-11

---Logopened Mon Feb 11 00:00:59 2019
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01:48<@peter1138>~Error: failed loading savegame: Order index 64000 out of range (64000)
01:48<@peter1138>:-)
01:55<Eddi|zuHause>i think i still have a slight problem with the meandering randomness, where in some cases it gets overzealous and turns into DFS mode for a while
01:56<Eddi|zuHause>resulting in silly zigzag lines
01:59<Eddi|zuHause>and on smoother maps we need wider and less branch-y rivers
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02:36<andythenorth>o/
02:46<@peter1138>Hmm, how can I tell if we're currently loading a savegame?
02:48<andythenorth>flag?
02:54<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
03:16<@peter1138>That'll do.
03:16<@peter1138>Argh, bloody monitor
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03:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fhQLh
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03:33<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened issue #7221: Version information is not applied on finger.openttd.org https://git.io/fhQtW
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04:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 closed issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version? https://git.io/fhQtW
04:03<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version? https://git.io/fhQtj
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05:07<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version? https://git.io/fhQqj
05:09<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQmJ
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05:37<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
05:38<@peter1138>< back to work :p
05:39*andythenorth already was :P
05:40<@peter1138>I was, had a meeting, then got distracted, oops.
05:40<@peter1138>"waiting for a compile" mmhmm
05:41<andythenorth>time for eggs soon
05:49<@peter1138>I had an egg & 'bacon' muffin.
05:49<@peter1138>"Turkey rashers"
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05:52<@peter1138>Hello dragonhorseboy
05:53<drac_boy>hi..as usual I just had to wonder but are planes still always either passenger/mail or all-mail .... no all-passenger for some reason, right?
05:54<@peter1138>I... don't know.
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: yes
06:10<andythenorth>XOR yes?
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: turns out you can't legally mount seats in the baggage area
06:11<andythenorth>oh IRL?
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: but if you make a NewGRF, you're free to set the mail capacity to 0
06:11<drac_boy>eddi well you're not suppose to fly 100+ cattle on a plane either but the refit window lets you do that tho ;)
06:12*drac_boy still remembers doing that a few silly times in ttdx (quite a while before I knew about the patch which meant new planes tho)
06:12<drac_boy>and hmm good thought, zero mail
06:18<@peter1138>heh
06:18<@peter1138>coal planes
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>i did oil zeppelins once
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>nobody on this internet seems to have my "read_hpet" performance problem... :/
06:29<drac_boy>well peter, as a footnote coal planes actually is in the russia plane grf .. 1 or 2 huge planes with like a 300-400 tonnes capacity
06:29<drac_boy>its been a very long time I had that grf I seem to forgot where it was sourced from but ah :)
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06:49<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fhQOs
07:02<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fhQO8
07:04<drac_boy>hmm is that like a map-wide cap? for a silly moment there I was thinking 'who orders one train to stop at a balizzion stations?'
07:05<@peter1138>It's not map related...
07:05<@peter1138>But it is game-wide, yes.
07:05<drac_boy>np
07:06<@peter1138>The order limit is reachable if you have lots of AIs not using shared orders :-)
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>"deleting kernel-default" is a strange message to watch in the package manage
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>r
07:07<@peter1138>oo
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>well, i have multi-kernel enabled and clicked uninstall on some older versions :p
07:08<@peter1138>multi-kernel enabled... you're not using the one-true Linux OS then. (Debian)
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>also, i'm by now desperate enough to try 5.0-rc2
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>rc5
07:09<@peter1138>How's the rivers going, though?
07:09<@peter1138>It looks good in... some cases.
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>and mesa 19.0.0-rc2
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>i updated it earlier today with some tweaks
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>still some odd cases
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>3 roads to take here: 1) clean up the code, 2) tweak the randomness in the priority queue, 3) consider different flow amount calculations and thresholds
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>but... destroying my system right now..
07:13<drac_boy>mesa? hmm what graphic thing you working on now?
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07:19<andythenorth>I did something regrettable with sliding door sprites on EMUs :P
07:19<andythenorth>in stations
07:19<andythenorth>I will regret this level of detail
07:19<@peter1138>Sounds good to me.
07:20<@peter1138>Maybe it needs persistent storage.
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>aren't the regretworthy things the best things, according to some philosophies?
07:21<andythenorth>dunno
07:21<andythenorth>peter1138: will it resolve sprites faster with persistent storage?
07:24<@peter1138>If you can use it as a cache and not have to query lots of vars every time, sure.
07:27<drac_boy>hmm is it just me having a wisful thought or can you actually ensure a certain industry only works on/adjacent canal tiles? (versus the ocean tile)
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>ok, my performance seems a bit better so far, but far from great
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07:33<andythenorth>FWIW, I would cache sprite stuff if there was storage
07:33<andythenorth>but eh seems like faff
07:36<@peter1138>Ideally we would cache it :p
07:37<@peter1138>But we'd need to know when to dirty the cache.
07:37<@peter1138>e.g. steam train animation == no cache
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>aw, i think it's not really improved
07:46<andythenorth>animation is the killer
07:46<andythenorth>errr
07:46<andythenorth>wait
07:46<andythenorth>animation is just a set of cached frames
07:46<@peter1138>No it's not.
07:46<andythenorth>we're not having blue wheels in game month June and red wheels in game month July
07:47*andythenorth wavey hands
07:47<@peter1138>Each frame is a separate result.
07:47<andythenorth>do people measure speed and stuff?
07:47<@peter1138>No.
07:47<@peter1138>Maybe?
07:47<andythenorth>so cache a list of results?
07:47<andythenorth>no animation, list is length 1?
07:47<@peter1138>Eh
07:48<andythenorth>on the other hand, imagine the BAD FEATURES from persistent storage
07:48<@peter1138>Frame animation could be done by returning a spriteset with > 8 images, I suppose.
07:48<@peter1138>But no point as you have to calculate it every frame anyway
07:49<andythenorth>we can't just cycle through results then :D
07:49<andythenorth>'just'
07:50<@peter1138>heh
07:51<andythenorth>I haven't bothered animating the steam engines
07:51<andythenorth>probably matters a lot more in higher res sprites
07:51<@peter1138>maybe
07:52<andythenorth>cache unless animated?
07:52<andythenorth>probably gets 98% of newgrfs covered
07:52<andythenorth>do we know this is even slow? :P
07:52<drac_boy>andy yeah a 8bit sprite only has like 2 or few frames for simple siderod but if you're doing 32bit it does indeed get tricky with the very high details (even crossrods if thats ever the case)
07:53<drac_boy>just my own opinion :)
07:53<@peter1138>drac_boy, please don't confuse bit with bpp, and 32bpp with extra zoom.
07:54<@peter1138>drac_boy, extra zoom at 8bpp does, of course, warrant more detail just as much as extra zoom at 32bpp.
07:55<@peter1138>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=83238
07:56<andythenorth>Horse 86% done
07:56<andythenorth>was 93% eh
07:57<@peter1138>"8 bit" graphics refers to the type of graphics produced by 8 bit computers and consoles of the 80s, where memory was vastly more limited. The idea of using 8bpp in the 8 bit era was out of the question.
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07:57<@peter1138>(and most hardware couldn't do it, anyway)
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09:09<drac_boy>hm think I'll just simply try detect any water in first place instead..ah well..lets see whats next
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09:42<Eddi|zuHause>oh weather is great
09:44<@peter1138>You've gone from rivers to full on weather simulation? ;-)
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09:51<@peter1138>Hi
09:57<nielsm>lo
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>sure. :p
10:04<nielsm>recent news have scientists claiming they trained bees to solve arithmetic problems with small integers... based on their data it sounds like one bee can handle about 3 bits worth of information, so I propose we now call a 3-bit quantity a 'beet'
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>being able to count to seven has been a property observed in many animals
10:06<drac_boy>what comes after seven? zero?
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10:06<nielsm>undefined
10:07<@peter1138>10
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>42.
10:17<drac_boy>anyway have fun with bees .. I need to go out for today tho
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10:18<andythenorth>is it nap time?
10:18<andythenorth>I can't have more coffee
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10:27<samu>im gonna test the 16.7 million orders
10:27<andythenorth>:D
10:27<andythenorth>Samu is regressions expert :P
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10:57<@peter1138>Hah
10:57<@peter1138>That savegame was horribly slow though, so it's not exactly much use :p
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11:18<Eddi|zuHause>horribly slow is my second name
11:18<andythenorth>I thought it was BFS? :|
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>beyond fucking slow?
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11:41<samu>i suspect town voronoi thing would speed up many AIs
11:41<samu>if it ever gets implemented
11:42<samu>calculate closest town is often used
11:44<samu>one other thing I notice that gets slower is creating list of vehicles
11:44<samu>for stations
11:44<samu>list vehicles with x order in schedule, usually
11:45<samu>initially it's fast, but as more and more vehicles get added into the world, it becomes heavy
11:45<nielsm>are these also the AIs that do not use shared orders?
11:45<samu>no, it's not due to that
11:46<samu>it's more of a decision issue, to know whether to add or remove vehicles to routes
11:46<nielsm>that's not what I was talking about
11:47<nielsm>it might be slow if there are many unique orders lists
11:47<nielsm>versus fewer unique orders lists shared among the same number of vehicles
11:47<nielsm>since finding all orders involving a particular stations would involve visiting all orders lists
11:48<samu>ah, maybe it's related
11:48<samu>looks like it
11:48<samu>but im not too sure if it even looks wether orders are shared
11:48<nielsm>you should probably be badgering AI authors to fix their code so it uses shared orders
11:49<samu>it goes through all vehicles
11:49<samu>let me check code
11:50<samu>https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/script/api/script_vehiclelist.cpp#L30
11:50<samu>nop, doesn't care about shared orders
11:50<nielsm>oh well
11:57<samu>how to remove something from bananas?
11:58<samu>I wanna remove Improved Oil Rig Layout
11:58<samu>it's no longer needed for 1.9.0
12:01<samu>Maximum OpenTTD version doesn't let me chose 1.8.0
12:02<samu>can i use Custom? then set 1.8.0 manually? would that work?
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12:03<samu>gonna try
12:05<samu>Invalid value.
12:05<samu>:/
12:06<samu>doesn't let me
12:06<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 opened issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work: ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 https://git.io/fhQc1
12:07<samu>where do i report banana issues?
12:07<samu>Maximum OpenTTD Version: Invalid value.
12:07<samu>doesn't let me pick Custom with 1.8.0
12:08<samu>https://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/edit/3573 halp
12:15<samu>starting 15 ship ais, to quickly fill 64000 orders
12:15<LordAro>so much for the issue template
12:17<samu>maybe a bit of my own AI too, cus no shared orders
12:21<samu>meh can only start 14 on this version
12:23<nielsm>that issue is a dupe of an existing isn't it
12:26<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQCL
12:28<samu>strange, random deviation is being added
12:29<samu>to start_date = 0 yet
12:29<samu>where did I miss it?
12:30<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQCs
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12:38<samu>we failed
12:43<@peter1138>If you tested an older version, it may just have set your start_date to 1.
12:44<samu>no, it's calling from ScriptConfig instead of AIConfig
12:44<+glx>AIConfig is ScriptConfig
12:44<+glx>just extended
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12:46<samu>MakeNewSettingsLive is called
12:46<samu>_settings_game.ai_config[c] = new AIConfig(_settings_newgame.ai_config[c]);
12:46<samu>it calls void ScriptConfig::AddRandomDeviation()
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12:47<samu>that's not the random deviation it should be calling
12:47<+glx>this function is surcharged by AIConfig
12:53<samu>so much for the assert
12:53<samu>doesn't even get through it
12:55<samu>surcharged?
12:55<samu>what does that mean?
12:56<nielsm>glx: do you mean overridden?
12:57<+glx>ah yes overridden is the right term
12:57<samu>but it wasn't
12:57<@peter1138>No other 1.9.0-beta2 servers yet.
12:58<samu>I had a reason to be suspicious about doing it in that place
12:59<@peter1138>MakeNewSettingsLive doesn't exist.
12:59<@peter1138>MakeNewgameSettingsLive does.
12:59<samu>yes, that one
12:59<@peter1138>That deals with AIConfig, so there's no reason it'll be wrong.
13:00<samu>but it is
13:00<samu>test it
13:00<@peter1138>Under what conditions?
13:00<samu>select an ai for the slot
13:00<samu>start new game
13:00<samu>boom random deviation
13:00<samu>dont select random ai
13:00<samu>select a real ai
13:01<@peter1138>No deviation for me.
13:01<+glx>but start_date won't be randomised
13:01<+glx>only other settings
13:01<samu>it's doing it for me
13:02<samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfxktjee4
13:02<+glx>you can put some printf in both AddRandomDeviation
13:03<samu>printf?
13:03<+glx>ha but it's the constructor
13:05<samu>testing with random ai
13:05<samu>brb
13:05<+glx>it's the copy constructor
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13:05<+glx>of course it calls the base AddRandomDeviation
13:05<Gabda>hi
13:05<@peter1138>Why of course?
13:06<+glx>you need to take care of that in AIConfig::AIConfig()
13:06<@peter1138>Fun.
13:06<+glx>ScriptConfig::ScriptConfig(const ScriptConfig *config) calls this->AddRandomDeviation();
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13:07<+glx>but AIConfig(const AIConfig *config) : ScriptConfig(config) {}
13:08<@peter1138>Oh
13:08<@peter1138>I think I can see how to do it :-)
13:08<samu>doesn't happen with random ai because for some reason, there is no list of settings yet
13:08<samu>weird stuff
13:08<+glx>not weird, works as intended ;)
13:08<samu>it should have start_date
13:09<samu>this is all too weird
13:10<@peter1138>Testing :)
13:10<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQWU
13:11<@peter1138>Probably needs a comment, but test it please ;)
13:12<@peter1138>I was thinking it'd be difficult because start_date would already be deviated, but of course we have access to the original.
13:14<+glx>indeed it's the copy construtor, we have the original :)
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13:27<samu>gonna test, brb
13:28<@peter1138>Bah, it's so hard to fit platforms into towns :/
13:35<andythenorth>isn't it
13:35<andythenorth>kinda the point though :)
13:35<andythenorth>underground stations? o_O
13:35<samu>nop, didn't fix it
13:36<samu>it's still using the scriptconfig random deviation
13:38<@peter1138>Yes, it is using it but resetting the start_date afterwards.
13:39<samu>oh, i see
13:40<samu>it was random deviated to 0, I wonder if it wasn't
13:41<@peter1138>orig 0, ours 56, now 0
13:41<@peter1138>Seems to work.
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13:43<samu>nice
13:43<samu>looks like it is
13:44<samu>retesting just to make sure
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13:44<@peter1138>Hmm, should I move try moving the constructor to ai_config.cpp instead, to avoid leaving this implementation detail in the header?
13:44<@peter1138>-move
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13:45<supermop_work_>yo andythenorth
13:46<andythenorth>yo
13:46<supermop_work_>when am i supposed to use NG DMU?
13:46<andythenorth>what's the go?
13:46<andythenorth>well
13:46<andythenorth>when you want to pretend you're on honeymoon in Corsica?
13:46<andythenorth>obvs.
13:46<supermop_work_>remote hotels produce too many people
13:47<supermop_work_>(seems remote hotels produce more than non-remote)
13:47<andythenorth>too many hotels what? :P
13:47<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9279/testing-testing.png
13:47*andythenorth testing pax train moneymaking
13:48<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQWU
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13:48<@peter1138>Bit larger but I think it's nicer that way.
13:49<andythenorth>stations peter1138 :) https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9280/stations.png
13:49<andythenorth>there are some 1 tile distant-join bits, catchment covers whole town
13:49<andythenorth>(I think)
13:49<@peter1138>Out of town, yes.
13:50<andythenorth>add walkability :P
13:50<@peter1138>I prefer not to station-spread-cheat ;(
13:50<andythenorth>'cheat' :D
13:50<@peter1138>Maybe George's bug would help that, heh.
13:50<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQla
13:50<@peter1138>I have cargodist on so I just setup a bus network in town, but... busy busy!
13:51<andythenorth>faff :P
13:51<andythenorth>actually one thing that would be really helpful is configurable catchment size
13:52<andythenorth>or even newgrf catchments :o
13:52<andythenorth>8 tile rail station catchments
13:52<@peter1138>Well
13:52<@peter1138>Let's say... stations should specificy a catchment size, and also have a different cost.
13:52<andythenorth>yes
13:52<@peter1138>Build cost and maintenance cost.
13:53<@peter1138>So you could build an expensive station and have it catch a larger area.
13:53<@peter1138>Hmm
13:53<andythenorth>it would also help the problem of fitting enough stations around industries
13:53<@peter1138>git checkout -b :p
13:53<andythenorth>hmm
13:53<samu>confirmed, it works1
13:53<samu>gj
13:53<andythenorth>so stations in town are hard because there's no gap
13:54<@peter1138>No gap?
13:54<andythenorth>space
13:54<@peter1138>Oh
13:54<@peter1138>Hmm, so if we make it so that catchment size depends on each part...
13:54<@peter1138>Like George thought...
13:54<andythenorth>and industries end up surrounded by station, with industry in the middle
13:54<andythenorth>yeah
13:55<andythenorth>both situations are kind irritating
13:55<@peter1138>Otherwise you would only need one piece of catchment-extending station, and the rest could be shit cheap stuff.
13:55<andythenorth>I cheat for towns, but cheating for industries get confusing
13:55<andythenorth>if I have multiple stations adjacent, I end up bulldozing the wrong one sometimes :P
13:55<andythenorth>but multiple stations are needed to see waiting cargo sprites
13:56<andythenorth>and because cdist is broken
13:56<@peter1138>Hmm.
13:56<@peter1138>Didn't we have a plan for that? :/
13:56<andythenorth>I bet we did
13:56<andythenorth>was it state machine?
13:56<andythenorth>newgrf docks?
13:57<andythenorth>something about stations-are-just-new-objects?
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13:57<andythenorth>hmm just one game of tanks, then back to software
13:58<@peter1138>No, nothing stupid.
13:59<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7223: Fix: Random start date was still applied when AI is not set to random. https://git.io/fhQWU
14:00<@peter1138>Should I have spaghetti or wholewheat fusilli?
14:00<@peter1138>^ That probably just missed the nightly :p
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14:02<@peter1138>Pasta to go with bolognese, so spaghetti is kinda the norm, but...
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14:17<andythenorth>all kinds are valid
14:24<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ThomasdenH updated pull request #7168: Fix CompanyEconomy documentation https://git.io/fhSgg
14:24<supermop_work_>peter1138: i did penne with arrabiata
14:25<supermop_work_>but my arrabiata sauce is closer to a puttanesca
14:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7168: Fix CompanyEconomy documentation https://git.io/fhQ8O
14:25<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ThomasdenH commented on pull request #7168: Fix CompanyEconomy documentation https://git.io/fhQ83
14:28<andythenorth>supermop_work_: used that railcar yet?
14:28<andythenorth>o_O
14:28<andythenorth>also what version are you playing? Alpha 4 has horrible run costs
14:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7168: Fix: CompanyEconomy documentation https://git.io/fhSgV
14:32<@peter1138>I'm playing 1.9.0-beta2 ;)
14:33<LordAro>:o
14:33<@peter1138>Someone joined my server.
14:36<supermop_work_>6 last night
14:37<supermop_work_>started in 85 instead of 50
14:37<supermop_work_>mostly MUs
14:37<supermop_work_>waiting for enough cash to buy some 225s
14:38<supermop_work_>i have one NG train taking apples to a cider press
14:38<supermop_work_>what railfreight sector was 'cider apples'?
14:39<supermop_work_>i have it as grey and dark blue at the moment
14:40<andythenorth>supermop_work_: probably orange and orange
14:40<andythenorth>https://theciderblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/thatchers_cheddarvalley.jpg
14:40<andythenorth>^ actual RL colours
14:40<andythenorth>Cheddar Valley
14:45<andythenorth>peter1138: so also station tiles that improve rating :P
14:45<@peter1138>Hmm
14:46<andythenorth>probably about as pointless as brake vans tbh
14:46<andythenorth>you either build those tiles everywhere, or not at all :P
14:46<andythenorth>no gameplay value
14:48<@peter1138>Currently that describes all of newstations :p
14:52<andythenorth>eh
14:52<andythenorth>one thing
14:52<andythenorth>ability to route to specific platform(s)
14:53<andythenorth>maybe by embedding a waypoint
14:53<@peter1138>Hmm
14:53<andythenorth>bit realisms
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15:07<@peter1138>70g fruitcake o_O
15:07<@peter1138>So dense and heavy.
15:07<@peter1138>So tasty.
15:09<andythenorth>rice and lamb and lettuce
15:09<@peter1138>Had some corn on the cob as well.
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15:21<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQ4w
15:23<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQ4o
15:25<LordAro>didn't even know about #6619
15:27<@peter1138>andythenorth probably closed it
15:27<+glx>no it's not closed
15:27<+glx>but it should since a duplicate has been fixed
15:28<LordAro>mm
15:29<@peter1138>Hmm.
15:31<andythenorth>I should close everything
15:37<@peter1138>Nah.
15:37<@peter1138>Approve everything.
15:37<@peter1138>So guys, NRT AI interface?
15:37<@peter1138>Do I need to split road and tram up?
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15:41<@peter1138>That was a suggestion from frosch123
15:41<@peter1138>I'm not sure if it was a suggestion or a "this needs to happen"
15:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 commented on issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQ4b
15:42<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattimat47 closed issue #7222: Terminal Start Network game not work for Connect : ./openttd -n xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:3797 Game Crash and show the load windows with: Load new grf .... https://git.io/fhQc1
15:42<frosch123>it's the only idea i came up with
15:43<frosch123>(except sub-sub-sub-sub-vehicle-types :p)
15:43<@peter1138>What I've done so far has road type and road sub type exposed.
15:43<@peter1138>So it'll work, but...
15:44<@peter1138>Splitting them means duplicating a ton of stuff elsewhere, bridges for example.
15:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #6619: Games freezes at start-up if -n command line option is used. https://git.io/fhQ4N
15:45<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #6619: Games freezes at start-up if -n command line option is used. https://git.io/fhQ4x
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15:50<frosch123>is there any ai author still active?
15:51<frosch123>@seen zuu
15:51<@DorpsGek>frosch123: zuu was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Zuu> So any data that is slow to determine for saving has to be pre-cached already before Save() is called. Load is easier, just save the data to this._save and handle it in Start() and you are good.
15:51<frosch123>there is wormnest, no idea whether still active
15:54<LordAro>do i count? :p
15:55<frosch123>when was the last update to darloro?
15:55<LordAro>i checked recently actually
15:56<LordAro>turns out i did some stuff only 3 years ago!
15:56<frosch123>sounds like when i check my ottd work :p
15:56<LordAro>hehe
16:04<@peter1138>:D
16:16<@peter1138>LordAro, so what makes sense from your perspective?
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16:19<LordAro>peter1138: uh
16:20<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fhQB6
16:21<@peter1138>BC
16:23<frosch123>one could also throw out tramtypes and make "tram" a single special roadtype
16:24<@peter1138>Um
16:24<LordAro>so, NRT essentially makes roads & tram tracks as GRF-controllable as railtypes, right? Is there any particular reason why the road interface couldn't mirror the rail interface?
16:24<@peter1138>currently road types are split into road and tram
16:24<frosch123>LordAro: road and tram are constructed independently
16:25<frosch123>like rail and road
16:25<@peter1138>but the internal api is not split
16:25<@peter1138>internally it is two parameters, road/tram and subtype./
16:26<LordAro>is there a particular reason that was done?
16:26<@peter1138>pass
16:27<frosch123>LordAro: what part do you mean?
16:27<LordAro>road/tram split
16:27<frosch123>you can have road and tram on the same tile
16:27<frosch123>they are independent
16:28<frosch123>roadvehicles and trams also move differently when reversing
16:28<frosch123>in theory subtypes can be used to model different poweredness
16:28<frosch123>but actually roadtypes are used to model eye candy
16:28<frosch123>while tramtypes are not used at all
16:28<@peter1138>not used at all?
16:28<frosch123>(except to hide catenary for andy)
16:29<frosch123>peter1138: that's my number one reason why i abandoned nrt 2/3? years ago. tramtypes are just pointless
16:30<frosch123>when there is road present, tramtypes affect only a few pixels on the tile
16:31<@peter1138>Maybe there's more now than 2/3 years ago.
16:32<frosch123>are there tramtypes?
16:32<@peter1138>Yes
16:32<frosch123>that kind of surprises me :p
16:32<@peter1138>It is, of course, mostly eyecandy and speed limits.
16:33<@peter1138>So yeah, to say it's unused is not quite fiar.
16:33<@peter1138>*fair
16:34<andythenorth>I did start with a patch that hid catenary
16:34<frosch123>so, stuff happened last year :p
16:34<andythenorth>it kinda worked
16:34<frosch123>i stopped forum a year ago, because nothing was happening :)
16:34<andythenorth>then we talked ourselves into NRT :P
16:34<@peter1138>Error: Assertion failed at line 193 of /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/road.h: rtid.IsValid()
16:34<@peter1138>Well, that's not so good :p
16:37<@peter1138>There's more enough newgrfs about that changing how it works now is going to annoy people.
16:42<@peter1138>Ok, found it.
16:44<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg
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16:52*andythenorth pixels
17:01<Wormnest>frosch123: I consider myself still active only the last thing I did was a year ago :)
17:03<supermop_work_>frosch123: i certainly used tramtypes
17:03<andythenorth>I will use tramtypes
17:03<andythenorth>I didn't yet because stuff and things
17:03<frosch123>supermop_work_: i checked forums, i found a tramtype grf from last month
17:03<frosch123>so, to me tramtype grfs are a new thing
17:04<supermop_work_>unspooled has powered and unpowered tracks
17:04<supermop_work_>and powered and unpowered roads
17:04<andythenorth>tram, electrified tram, industrial railway (feldbahn), electrified industrial railway
17:04<andythenorth>HEQS rides again!
17:04<supermop_work_>and both of various speeds
17:04<@peter1138>And we even fixed some bugs ;p
17:04*andythenorth wonders if funicular will work :P
17:05<andythenorth>10,000HP, 10mph
17:05<samu>how is a #opcode calculated?
17:05<supermop_work_>frosch123: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75986&hilit=unspooled&start=40
17:06<supermop_work_>i was using tramtypes a year+ ago
17:06<samu>i've been wondering if #opcodes could be a lower value, lower than 5000
17:06<supermop_work_>i guess people really didn't give a shit
17:07<@peter1138>I do.
17:07<@peter1138>I think I'm outnumbered on 1.9 though
17:07<samu>I found that pathfinding is usually limited by competitor speed rather than #opcodes
17:09<LordAro>build it and they will come
17:09<LordAro>or something
17:09<andythenorth>1.9.5 :P
17:09<andythenorth>October
17:09<@peter1138>Ew
17:10<andythenorth>TB did mention maybe releasing more often
17:10<andythenorth>in 0.6.x days releases seemed....frequent
17:10<samu>gonna edit the lower limit of #opcodes, wanna experiment with it
17:11<frosch123>they weren't
17:11<frosch123>1 branch per year was started with 0.6
17:11<frosch123>0.5 and 0.4 took longer
17:12<frosch123>also, the changelog is not that long that it makes sense to branch more often
17:12<frosch123>unless you want to abandon branching and just release from master
17:16<supermop_work_>peter1138: my main motivation in trying to figure out how to make a NRT grf was to try to get a critical mass of users/testers, and help encourage NRT moving forward
17:18<frosch123>apparently you succeeded :)
17:22<andythenorth>such bed :)
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17:28<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
17:32<DorpsGek_II>[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fhQ0O
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17:33<samu>testing 500 #opcodes
17:33<samu>with very fast build speed
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17:37<samu>over 40 fps with 14 AIs
17:37<samu>fast forward mode
17:37<samu>not bad, but seems that the AIs are mostly asleep
17:38<samu>map is also 4kx4k
17:39<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> ^ That probably just missed the nightly :p <-- i thought the nightly is forked like an hour earlier now?
17:40<@peter1138>I have no idea.
17:40<@peter1138>Hmm, nope, it made it.
17:41<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> peter1138: so also station tiles that improve rating :P <-- not necessarily "improve rating" but "reduce rating decay"?
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>together with a rating rework so it is less of a "have always a train waiting" and instead a "transport all cargo"
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18:05<samu>hmm video scrolling is a bit slower than it used to be
18:06<samu>when fully zoomed out
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18:15<samu>looks like 500 opcodes is too little
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18:26<samu>trying with 1500 opcodes
18:28<samu>1500 opcodes is already below 33 fps
18:32<samu>release every month?
18:32<samu>1.9.4
18:32<samu>1.9.5
18:32<samu>1.9.12
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19:34-!-supermop_work_ is "A CIRC user" on #openttd
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20:03-!-Wormnest is "Wormnest" on #openttd
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20:19-!-Thedarkb-X40 is "realname" on #openttd #/r/openttd #oolite
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21:01-!-supermop_Home is "Guest" on #openttd
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21:46-!-snail_UES_ is "Jacopo Coletto" on #openttd
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22:31-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #bitlbee #openttd
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 12 00:00:01 2019