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#debian IRC Logs for 2007-07-29

---Logopened Sun Jul 29 00:00:15 2007
---Daychanged Sun Jul 29 2007
00:00<jusae>thxs chealer, any comment thats unlike gets auto-response, ur grt
00:00<jusae>mke2fs alters the drive
00:00<bathat>but not with the '-n' flag
00:01<bathat>that's a simulation of what it _would_ do
00:01<jusae>u need to read the man page on mke2fs
00:02<bathat>i know what it's used for
00:02<bathat>i don't mean to be coming across as yelly ;)
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00:02<jusae>cos that comment came quick u know
00:02<jusae>its cool
00:02<bathat>it's hard to tell in here
00:03<bathat> -n causes mke2fs to not actually create a filesystem, but display
00:03<bathat> what it would do if it were to create a filesystem.
00:03<bathat>oops, sorry
00:03<jusae>what journal did u use
00:03<jusae>i thought u used -N
00:03<bathat>didn't specify with -j flag
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00:03<bathat>oh, nope
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00:03<jusae>miss read, my bad
00:03<bathat>little N, i should have specified
00:03<jusae>u did, i didn't
00:04<bathat>it just so happens that i did use -c flag since i mis-read and thought it only checked for bad blocks
00:04<bathat>sloppy reading... luckily it was my backup drive
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00:05<wotan>chealer: apt-show-versions (no such command)
00:05<jusae>i feel u, sometimes ur kinda desprite and u mis things
00:05<chealer>wotan: is it installed?
00:05<wotan>probably not
00:05<bathat>i got all excited when i was able to mount the partition finally
00:05<chealer>wotan: that's why
00:06<jusae>if ur good at programming, rippin the code for mke2fs, so that u sector-sector the drive will prolly help u
00:06<bathat>hopefully the original drive is still in decent enough shape
00:06<wotan>chealer: wow talk about a massive text dump :/
00:06<jusae>it depends on the filesystem, if u used encryption, ur screwed
00:06<bathat>i'll have to mirror the drive again
00:06<wotan>chealer: and they all says "unknown"
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00:07<chealer>wotan: hum. did you remove your sid source?
00:07<jusae>i'm kinda not sure if i should mirror the server drives, i'd go from 1 terabyte to 500 gigs
00:07<chealer>wotan: you should add it back, at least to run apt-show-versions
00:07<jusae>i'll mirror if i'm unable to recover from a faulty drive senerio
00:08<jusae>need to run tests
00:08<jusae>tupa: i love and i'm glade i stuck with exim4 and not moved to postfix
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00:09<tupa>jusae, who uses postfix anyway
00:10<jusae>have u tried dovecot?
00:12<jusae>i really need to figure out the seperate files for exim4, i kinda miss the complete file, even if it is like 400 lines
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00:14<wotan>finally. installing WoW on Debian. :)
00:14<wotan>all this hard work paying off
00:16<toast>hi guys, would any of you be able to help me switch sata drivers, i'm currently using ata_piix, but I'd like to try ahci, i have an ich7 controller, but I couldn't figure out how to disable ata_piix, and I don't have any helpful bios otptions to try to get it detected differently
00:17<toast>running debian unstable with kernel 2.6.21-2-686
00:17<wotan>toast: unstable has 2.6.22
00:18<toast>ok... i'll update that first, but i still have no idea how to disable a sata driver :/
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00:22<jusae>does exim4 have a testparm command, like apache?
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00:27<tupa>jusae, nope
00:27<tupa>jusae, I read that sendmail was used by like 80%-90% of the mail servers in the internet
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00:28<blarson>toast: Put the one you don't want in your udev blacklist.
00:29<blarson>tupa: Probably outdated info.
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00:30<tupa>blarson, wikipedia a couple of months ago, not checked since
00:30<toast>blarson: thanks, that should be the pointer i need :D
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00:30<tupa>yup, not updated
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00:32<tupa>and probably someone changed it, it has an estimate of 42% for 2001
00:33<blarson>tupa; Not very believable, unless they define "mail server" strangely.
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00:35<tupa>blarson MTA, I confused the term :P
00:36<jusae>tupa any pointers to email aliases, cos i'm havin problems configuring for user email aliases
00:37<jusae>u can tell, all servers give out information, either the software/version number or just by their behaviour
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00:38<jusae>blarson: not everyone knows ibm/sun/hp hardware
00:38<jusae>some people use the free stuff
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00:39<jusae>*owns (not knows)
00:39<jusae>i so datin that girl from sun, she's married, but like i care
00:41<jusae>any body on pointers to exim4 email aliases configuration, i use my own exim4.conf file
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00:51<jusae>quick question on grep
00:51<wotan>how do you make it so that epiphany has a button you can click to open new tabs?
00:51<jusae>i wanna search the file in /etc/exim4 for the word local_domains, whats the correct grep command?
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00:52<Supaplex>jusae: man grep =) search for recurse or recursion iirc
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00:53<jusae>ur like my english teacher and her f'in dictionary
00:53<jusae>what happened to learn by example
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00:55<jusae>thxs Supaplex
00:55<Supaplex>grep -r needle /path
00:56<tupa>jusae I would do ls | grep local_domains
00:56<jusae>thats the thing i was wonderin about
00:56<Supaplex>why not ls *local_domains*
00:56<tupa>because I like pimping :P
00:57<tupa>piping :P
00:57<Supaplex>or find /etc/exim* -iname \*local_domains\*
00:57<Supaplex>or find /etc/exim* | grep -i local_domains
00:57<jusae>within the file, not the filename
00:57<Supaplex>then grep is what you want
00:57<jusae>but i'm havin problems setting email aliases
00:57<Supaplex>grep -ril local_domain /etc/exim*/
00:57<Supaplex>grep -ri --color local_domain /etc/exim*/
00:57<Supaplex>there's a few ways to do it. =)
00:58<jusae>okay, which one would u suggest?
00:58<Supaplex>I'm not an exim user. you wanted an example
00:58<jusae>i'm vi'in /etc/email-aliases at the moment
00:59<jusae>not sure of the structure
00:59<jusae>and its for outgoing email
00:59<jusae>not for incomin
00:59<wotan>anyone use epiphany browser?
00:59<jusae>plus some of the help files suggest addin routers
00:59<jusae>but i'm not sure how
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01:00<Supaplex>why an smtp service is involved in layer 2/3, is beyond me.
01:00<Supaplex>unless they mean relays
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01:02<jusae>its not a relay, its to support
01:02<jusae>that kinda of thing
01:03<jusae>services should be at the application layer, maybe?
01:05<Supaplex>ahh mail routing.
01:05<jusae>tupa: sendmail is the default unix MTA
01:09<wotan>Anyone use an alternative to as a search engine?
01:09<jusae>btw the stats at wiki are spot on
01:09<jusae>the guy that did that, did google aswell and he hacks/cracks like man possed
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01:10<jusae>and he did youtube and the other place
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01:17<jusae>i'm there
01:17<jusae>i'm kickin ass and not botherin with names
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01:24<jusae>i jump the gun
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01:26<jusae>550 error from the email server
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01:35<sigp239>I just installed debian and I don't have sound, what can I do to get sound working?
01:36<dpkg>somebody said sound was ask me about <alsa checklist>, <alsa one-liner>, <ac97>, <audio>, <dmix>, <esound> and <arts>. For sarge go to
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01:50<manphiz>After all the normal work on my sound card, I ultimately found I'd been frustrated by the option named "external-amplifier" for more than a year. Try tweak it.
01:51<jusae>anyone point me to a readme on email aliases for exim4
01:52<fxiny>gimme a sec
01:54<fxiny>jusae: is somewhere at , site search emgine provided
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01:59<tupa>Supaplex, are you a developer?
02:00<Supaplex>not a dd
02:00<tupa>then OSS?
02:00<Supaplex>mostly perl. some odd bug fixes/updates etc.
02:01<Supaplex> is my bts handle. (and no, I don't really check my spambait box)
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02:01[~]fxiny can't find any supa-candle on his Larry Wall altar
02:02<Supaplex>fxiny: my license plates on my car 'perl6' - does that count? :P
02:02<fxiny>indeed :))))))
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02:10<fxiny>Supaplex: you deserve a prize for such a brilliant zealotery ,a glimpse to my own perversion . here you are : my $browser = LWP::UserAgent->new(agent => 'Wallilla no greenz');
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02:39<sigp239>is there an open-source java browser plugin?
02:40<Supaplex>sun java
02:40<dpkg>Java is Sun's cross-platform OO language. Sun partially released java as GPL on Nov 13, 2006 (rest expected to be released in 2007). There are other implentations available in Debian such as 'free-java-sdk' for use with applications like Eclipse. The Sun JRE/JDK is in non-free. Also, ask about <install java>, <non-free>.
02:40<sigp239>I see
02:40<sigp239>so is there a debian package in the main repo?
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02:40<Supaplex>!tell sigp239 -about search
02:41<Supaplex>i'd look at the wiki to, if you'd like more info
02:41<jusae>supaplex, i could really do with a pointer to email aliases
02:41<jusae>the router option in exim4 isn't workin the correct way, and i wish i had a debugger
02:42<Supaplex>jusae: I'm turning in. the greymatter is all used up today.
02:42<jusae>atleast i can see what its doing and where i'm going wrong
02:42<Supaplex>good luck though
02:42<jusae>:), i'm buzzin, been up all night, kinda grateful to get this far
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02:43<sigp239>From wiki: "Sun's implementation of the Java virtual machine is not FreeSoftware. In fact, it's so non-free that Debian can't even distribute Java packages in its own non-free section."
02:43<kidbuntu>can I install xubuntu desktop manager without reformatting my 7.04 gnome
02:44<tupa>kidbuntu yes you can
02:44<kidbuntu>tupa: can you help me how to do that. or is there any documentation that i can follow
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02:45<sigp239>Supaplex: Is the free java implementation some kind of reverse-engineered thing? Or is it actually built using Sun's GPL source of Java?
02:46<tupa>kidbuntu, sudo apt-get install xdm (however, you should ask in #ubuntu in freenode for Ubuntu
02:46<jusae>the system alias should do that, but exim4 doesn't use that by default
02:46<kidbuntu>tupa: i thought i was in ubuntu. I didnt noticed i was in the channel of debian
02:46<kidbuntu>join #ubuntu
02:47<kidbuntu>tupa how do i join that channel
02:47<tupa>kidbuntu this is not #ubuntu's server, you have to join freenode
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02:48<Supaplex>sigp239: that's a mystery to me. I know it was listed as gpl on last I checked. maybe it's needs time to settle, but from the sounds of things, it only applies to a small portion of java.
02:49<sigp239>i thought it applied to the runtime environment but not to the development environment
02:49<sigp239>but im not sure
02:49<jusae>u gotta remember sun is not as nice as everyone assumes, the likely hood is no and its reversed
02:50<jusae>they don't hand out their compilers or dev environments
02:50<jusae>u gotta play alot for them
02:50<sigp239>well i just want the browser plugin to be free enough so that it can be packaged by default into debian distribution
02:51<sigp239>as far as the other stuff like the development environment, etc, I don't care as much
02:51<jusae>the point of java was a unified scriptin language accross all platforms
02:52<jusae>so the plugin should be there, but linux isn't top of everyones list, little to no return
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02:55<jusae>email aliases are like standard, why can't i find something that works
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02:56<jusae>maybe its me, the machine hates me for walkin away all those years ago, its like the ex that said f u, if u think ur gettin any
02:56<jusae>b!tch, she knows i gonna hit that
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03:01<fxiny>twb: hey . are you in ?
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03:15<jusae>i just learned to follow some instructions
03:15<jusae>email alias complete
03:15<jusae>i'm good - i'm good - i'm better then the rest of u
03:16[~]jusae does his little dance and adjusts his nads
03:21<fxiny>that's exim s&m well know side effetc :P
03:22<sheldonh>can rdiff-backup-1.0.4 clients back up to an rdiff-backup-1.1.12 server?
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03:37<gsimmons_>sheldonh: rdiff-backup performs a version compatibility check, I assume you'll be told if there's a problem.
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03:39<tupa>fxiny haha, nice one
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03:47<sheldonh>gsimmons_: it does. ugh, then backupninja's being stupid. it insists on its own check
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03:48<sheldonh>gsimmons_: that said, 1.1.5 to 1.0.4 doesn't give a compat warning and fails spectacularly
03:49<sheldonh>gsimmons_: but i'm hoping that later versions handle version problems better, given the complaints about backward compatibility that have come in over time
03:49<sheldonh>gsimmons_: have you had any luck with duplicity. i gave up on encrypted incremenetal backups last night, which is kinda the whole point of duplicity :)
03:50<fxiny>i hate duplicity
03:51<sheldonh>fxiny: i'm there :)
03:51<sheldonh>fxiny: fantastic idea, and apparently that's all
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03:51<gsimmons_>sheldonh: (re diff-backup) I hope so too. There's a bug submitted for backninja, at least (#424632).
03:52<gsimmons_>sheldonh: Haven't used duplicity, but have rsnapshot in operation over here. The requirement for literal tabs in its config file is annoying, but otherwise works fine.
03:53<sheldonh>gsimmons_: rsnapshot is the original hardlinks backup idea, yes? no encryption?
03:54<gsimmons_>sheldonh: No idea about originality, but it can use rsync over ssh.
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03:57<fxiny>sheldonh: is nice testing what debian offers about backups . some are brilliant some are plain paranoia powered , but then comes the headache : i just use rsync
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03:59<sheldonh>fxiny: rsync's okay, but sometimes you really do need encryption. currently, our backup server does the encryption ina post-process, and it's very inefficient
03:59<fxiny>so i don0t keep backpus of backups : rsync -avz --delete and all useless stuff goes away
03:59<jusae>it wasn't routin the emails prolly
03:59<jusae>the -d arg roxs
03:59<jusae>i really need it to support system aliases
04:00<jusae>then the whole thing is ready to go live
04:00<jusae>once i attempt brute force bufferover run
04:02<fxiny>sheldonh: i regard backups as one of the best thing a machine can do : machines do not need users to talk between them . they are supposed to talk backups language in a way . no backups app reached the nirvana yet
04:02<sheldonh>fxiny: i kinda like being able to go back in time. but that's the least of my worries. the encryption process is enormous. anyway, duplicity would have been an optimisation, is all. not a requirement
04:04<sheldonh>i'm happy with backupninja. nice little engine for driving the various kinds of backup we need (postgres, svn, rdiff)
04:04<sheldonh>that, and moving from subversion to svk for config revision control, should take it to the next level
04:05<sheldonh>plus it's forcing us to disable root logins (even key-based). for now, sudo. later, kerberos. so it's been a good night. but i could have done without the hours lost on duplicity
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04:06<fxiny>sheldonh: rdiff-backup is ok . can run unattended
04:07<jusae>thats cos ur storage capacity is huge, its like the burn time of blue-ray compared to the burn time of cdrs
04:07<jusae>anyone got a blue-ray drive?
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04:08<fxiny>nahh i can get cheap 4.4 DVD
04:09<jusae>u can't backup a system and still use it
04:09<jusae>how does the software know if u alter something its already backup
04:09<fxiny>plan your partitions carefully and you can
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04:10<fxiny>sheldonh: have you checked dirvish ?
04:11<jusae>pisssh, like jazzy says, u wanna spin the wheels of steel, then u gotta be old skool
04:14<jusae>btw what apps are there for testing hd's
04:14<ifvoid>testing in what way?
04:15<jusae>spelt wrong, but basically checking to see how good it is
04:15<ifvoid>well, the disks mostly do that themselves nowadays
04:15<ifvoid>with smart
04:15<jusae>i need to know before hand
04:15<ifvoid>smartctl -a show lots of stats
04:16<jusae>i need something that will run continious tests
04:16<fxiny>as ifvoid told you
04:17<sheldonh>fxiny: no. thanks for the reminder
04:20<sheldonh>fxiny: rdiff-backup is what we've been using for a couple of years now. has its problems, but overall great. you use dirvish? the homepage makes it sound similar
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04:21<fxiny>sheldonh: i don't use it . found it too complicated , we were talking about "idea" before . i'm still using rsync but i should use rsnapshots
04:22<ifvoid>yeah, rsnapshot is nice
04:23<fxiny>sheldonh: backups of backups are a waste of time . i want to make a decision and delete stuff today . not tomorrow
04:23<jusae>is the source avaible for smartmontools?
04:23<sheldonh>fxiny: backups _of_ backups are usually a waste of time (but there are times when not, e.g. local backup + offsite backup)
04:23<fxiny>sheldonh: 99.99% of the time you end up deleting useless things
04:24<sheldonh>fxiny: but yesterday, the day before, last week, last month... these are nice backups to have
04:24<fxiny>sheldonh: that is how human brain works : plain paranoia
04:25<fxiny>sheldonh: we should set priority
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04:25<sheldonh>looks like rsnapshot runs on the backup storage host and connects to the hosts to be backed up. we have customers who wouldn't dig that
04:27<ifvoid>sheldonh: rsnapshot can also run on the other hosts
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04:27<ifvoid>sheldonh: or even on a third machine
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04:28<sheldonh>ifvoid: okay good. the nice thing is that it's a simpler model than rdiff-backup and one thing i've learned about backups is that simpler is usually better :)
04:28<ifvoid>sheldonh: it just has to have access to the source and destination filesystem, either locally (or nfs, cifs), or via ssh/rsh/etc
04:28<fxiny>sheldonh: usually we look into bakups apps cause we want to satisfy our paranoia , and we say : this is good because it savees all my useless stuff . that's not how machines are supposed to work.
04:28<sheldonh>fxiny: honestly dude, i think we're coming from very different perspectives
04:29<fxiny>sheldonh: i'm not saying you !
04:29<sheldonh>fxiny: i frequently need to use my backups, and have occasionally had very uncomfortable conversations with customers because backups weren't sufficient
04:30<fxiny>sheldonh: i understand that
04:30<sheldonh>hmmm... perhaps i should just announce to the team that i've migrated us to svk config control and unprivileged admin logins, and that how offsite backups are handled is up to them :)
04:31<sheldonh>how to lose friends and influence over people ;)
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04:33<fxiny>sheldonh: i loved backup2l for example. i used for a while. i don't think is what you want
04:34<sheldonh>right lab test set up. let's see if i can upgrade rdiff-backup on the server without.... no
04:34<fxiny>is saved my ass many times back when i was deleting stuff on my home , sometimes it make sense to have such kind of backups
04:37<fxiny>sheldonh: if a customer decision is to backup everything , well debian can obviously do it .
04:37<jusae>shit, my bad
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04:39<sheldonh>fxiny: for us, it's more about turn around times. they don't really care _how_ we do it, as long as we can show that their data doesn't leave our control unencrypted and that we'll get them up and running after catastrophic failure within n hours
04:40<jusae>u live in the real world, sheldonh, where time actually is money
04:41<sheldonh>jusae: either that, or the people around me are doing a good job pretending ;)
04:41<jusae>sittin here playin with 8 computers, 3 tft displays and 28 hds cos about £2/$3.50 per hour
04:42<sheldonh>jusae: we're going through the painful process of repositioning ourselves as a development house -- margins on system management are dwindling
04:42<jusae>once they hit dev status, ur gonna be the nobodies under the stairs
04:42<sheldonh>jusae: but we're not just gonna dump our sysman customers, so we need to reduce our time costs around that practice
04:43<jusae>their gonna need some processin power
04:43<sheldonh>jusae: lol. hopefully not. there isn't anyone who isn't interested in some kind of solution development role, and i'm trying to engineer an exit from the day to day ops
04:44<jusae>spend some time with gcc
04:44<jusae>and the network interface
04:44<sheldonh>jusae: it's actually this change in focus that had us decide to switch to debian as our preferred platform base -- it's just so damn cheap
04:44<jusae>holeless aswell
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04:45<jusae>the linux dev people from way back are holdin back on alot of system development, especially seenin as it open source
04:45<sheldonh>okay, so today, i'll take a look at dirvish and rsnapshot. but one way or another, someone's got their work cut out for them next week
04:46<sheldonh>even if we stick with rdiff-backup, someone's gonna have to do a lot of client upgrades
04:47<jusae>dhcp, net boot, pxeboot
04:47<jusae>automated, dude, thats why they pay u 7 bucks a hour
04:47<sheldonh>hmmm... rsnapshot has nice interval handling
04:47<jusae>compared to the 5 bucks the guys at star bucks make
04:48<sheldonh>jusae: we haven't started preseeding yet. we're not rolling out new systems at the pace we used to
04:48<jusae>what do u do with the old systems?
04:49|-|mode/#debian [+l 283] by debhelper
04:49<jusae>when i did this about 10 years ago, one of the managers at the telephone exchange let me have a server box, it had an oldish ibm cluster in it
04:50<jusae>u know a chasis, it got left in the rain, in the forecourt, but still, i couldn't get that thing into the van fast enough
04:51<sheldonh>you mean decommissioned systems? depends. if they were a real problem, we throw a bit of a party and hammer them to death
04:51<sheldonh>but mostly we just hold them in storage until the customer's auditors are happy to write them off
04:51<jusae>i was in america doing stuff and i upgrade my desktop machine, which was a sun 3 unit server box
04:52<jusae>rather then through it was, the old 3 unit ibm i got for free, i took the shootin range and shoot big wholes it
04:52<jusae>*in it
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04:52<jusae>scared the crap out of the sun technies that came along to help upgrade
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04:54<jusae>i got thinkin back then, i really would like a fast machine, something that doesn't get me annoyed quickly, plus the girl at sun roxed, thou at the time i was datin this surfer chic that was doin time at hp
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04:55<sheldonh>i have yet to encounter a machine that's "fast enough" :)
04:55<jusae>i bought a blade system back then aswell, surprised at that box actually
04:55<jusae>aahh, sheldonh, ur just a number crunchin machine
04:56<jusae>i remember workin for a company that okay a sun mainframe
04:56<jusae>this thing was huge
04:57<jusae>i kept think, i wonder how fast it really is, purpose to the bose a program to compute prime number, he okay it aswell
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04:59<daniele>someone can explain me what the new libraries in sid with a package name ending with ldbl are about?
05:00<daniele>i'm searching on the web but i'm unable to find any information about it
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05:15<DiAbInHo>hey, I'm getting in a lot of troubles since yesterday ... my printer worked fine, but now there is no way Debian detects it. When I connect it to an USB port and type 'lsusb', nothing happens, and in the log systems I often get an error about the printer telling me that the device is not accepting address x, with an error -110. It also says 'device descriptor read/64, error -110'
05:15<DiAbInHo>but all the other USB devices work fine
05:15<DiAbInHo>and yes, the printer is working (it works perfectly under Windows)
05:15<DiAbInHo>and the most strange fact is that se DID work yesterday and always worked :/
05:16<Eulex>define 'nothing happens'
05:16<DiAbInHo>lsusb - the console say nothing
05:16<DiAbInHo>gets white
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05:17<DiAbInHo>but it I turn the printer off, lsusb works perfectly
05:17<Eulex>do you get no output, or does the command hang?
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05:18<DiAbInHo>it's kinda
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05:18<DiAbInHo>~/filipe $ lsusb
05:18<DiAbInHo>and the cursor goes down
05:18<DiAbInHo>and nothing happens
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05:18<DiAbInHo>then i get that error above on the system logs
05:18<Eulex>ok, well, then it hangs. sounds like a kernel problem. did you upgrade your kernel since yesterday?
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05:19<DiAbInHo>I upgraded a few weeks ago
05:19<DiAbInHo>I am now using 2.6.21-2-686
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05:20<DiAbInHo>i gotta go by now, sorry see ya ... i'll be back later
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05:22[~]runlevelten has hair blown back by the waves of evil emanating from a SuSE machine
05:23<SeanWasHere>ohnoes SuSE
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05:29<mohkohn>Good morning. I am trying to play my wife's Cambodian Karaoke VCD's in Etch.
05:29<mohkohn>They use .dat files.
05:29<mohkohn>I can't get anything with VLC or Mplayer
05:29<mohkohn>Any suggestions?
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05:36<suiside>just the file extension really doesn't say anything, depends on the encoding
05:36<gsimmons_>mohkohn: Don't mount the CD. With mplayer, use 'mplayer vcd://1' (etc) as necessary.
05:36<sheldonh>gsimmons_: looking at its architecture, it doesn't look like rsnapshot preserves ownership and permissions across a backup restore?
05:37<suiside>afaik VCD:s normally use MPEG-1
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05:42<sheldonh>gsimmons_: a nice feature of rdiff-backup is that you can use an unprivileged account on the backup server, and ownerships and permissions are still preserved across backup and restore ('cause that info is stored in metadata files)
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05:48<gsimmons_>sheldonh: The backups are created via rsync's '-a' and '--numeric-ids' by default. You'd be responsible for ensuring the correct uid/gid mapping is present prior to the restore (IIRC), but restoring via rsync would transfer the previously saved ownership/permissions.
05:49<gsimmons_>sheldonh: Not a bad feature. Any public key required?
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05:49<sheldonh>gsimmons_: yeah, but if you back up to the server using an unprivileged account on the server, that user can't arbitrarily set the numeric ownership of files, surely?
05:49<sheldonh>gsimmons_: public key helps, otherwise they're not unattended. i think i might have misunderstood your question, though
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05:51<sheldonh>the more i review the options, the more i realize that rdiff-backup is awesome, and we're just going to have to live with its fussiness about versions
05:54<gsimmons_>sheldonh: That's right, but rsnapshot runs as root (on the server) to preserve the necessary ownership/permissions on the files retrieved from each client (a connection which the server initiates).
05:54<sheldonh>showstopper for me
05:54<gsimmons_>Sure, it wouldn't be appropriate for your use, I'd imagine. :)
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06:12<sheldonh>okay, i'm done. for our needs, rdiff-backup, delicate as it is, is currently the best fit
06:12<sheldonh>now to upgrade 40 hosts
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06:17<sheldonh>ugh, i'm being a retard.
06:17<sheldonh>the new backup scheme uses rdiff-backup for the local backup, which means i just need to use rsync for the remote backups
06:18<sheldonh>older client hosts will continue to use the old version of rdiff-backup on the server
06:18<sheldonh>newer clients just use rsync
06:19[~]fxiny plays red-lorry-yellow-lorry : monkey's on juice
06:19<fxiny>sheldonh: :)
06:20<sheldonh>fxiny: if i'd have listened to you a little more carefully earlier, i'd have spotted the stupidity sooner :)
06:20<sheldonh>rocking. so now i have a successfully migrated reference host, live, in the wild, for the team to comment on
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06:21<fxiny>sheldonh: i told you : you are looking for apps thinking as a human . look around pretending to be a machine
06:23<sheldonh>fxiny: ENONET
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06:25<mohkohn>Hello. I am getting an error playing back mpeg files. Under VLC I get video and no sound.
06:26<mohkohn>under mplayer I get sound but no video
06:26<mohkohn>under mplayer I get the following message: fatal error: Error opening/initializing the selected video_out (-v0) device
06:27<sheldonh>this is so cool. svk for change control, rdiff-backup for local config backup, rsync for offsite backups of the local backup
06:27<sheldonh>now i just need a cron job that runs overnight and goes "hey! someone's made uncommitted changes in /etc, come fix, byatch!"
06:28<sheldonh>hmmm, and i need to whitelist the svk commit messages from servers, i suppose
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06:30<gsimmons_>mohkohn: Which video output driver are you attempting you use with mplayer? 'xv'?
06:31<mohkohn>gsimmons ?? nvidia?
06:33<mohkohn>looked in preferences it looks to be xv
06:33<suiside>try x11
06:33<gsimmons_>mohkohn: You're probably using 'xv' with another application already using the video overlay. Either exit out of that application or use 'mplayer -vo x11 foo' as a non-accelerated (ie. slower) workaround.
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06:35<mohkohn>foo I take it is the name of the file you are playing?
06:37<gsimmons_>mohkohn: It's a metasyntactic variable. Replace it with the name of your intended media file.
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06:38<mohkohn>just doing from the command line. just music no video
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06:41<kuttenbrunzer>how can I autostart programs after login?
06:42<pumpkin0>kuttenbrunzer: log into KDE/GNOME or into bash/sh/... ?
06:42<kuttenbrunzer>login gnome, sry
06:43<pumpkin0>kuttenbrunzer: the file ~/.bashrc is executed by gnome at startup. Docu: /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-file
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06:44<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, thx
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06:44<kuttenbrunzer>thought there was another way in gnome
06:44<pumpkin0>kuttenbrunzer: there is, but i don't remember it now ...
06:45<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, thx so far.
06:45<manphiz>kuttenbrunzer, try session manager, that's the gnome way
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06:47<kuttenbrunzer>manphiz, ahh now I remember. thx mate :)
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06:52<kuttenbrunzer>updatedb does on every login a *find* for locate on the filesystem. How can I configure it?
06:53<pumpkin0>kuttenbrunzer: you want to disable it ? uninstall locatedb. Or dig into the cron-tabs under /etc/cron.daily.
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06:56<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, its part of findutils
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06:59<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, there is a find script in /etc/cron.daily
06:59<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, u were on the right locatioin.
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07:01<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, who triggers the cron.daily scripts?
07:01<pumpkin0>kuttenbrunzer: cron or anacron. In your case it should be anacron.
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07:09<kuttenbrunzer>pumpkin0, ok done.
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07:27<deb_usr>hi all
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07:28<deb_usr>where can i activate file sharing in debian (just to remember ;-))
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07:28<deb_usr>thank you
07:30<cahoot>what kind of file sharing? smb? nfs? toorents?
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07:31<cahoot>deb_usr, try the info presented by /msg dpkg samba
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07:34<deb_usr>cahoot : thank you
07:35<cahoot>deb_usr, you might also take a look at the debian reference
07:36<deb_usr>cahoot : sure !
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07:46<alex_>hi guys :)
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07:47<alex_>ive forgotton/lost my SU password on a machine of mine thats infront of me
07:47<alex_>anyway i could bruteforce the password? or some hackery way i can get into it?
07:47<alex_>maybe a rescue cd?
07:47<lupine_85>alex_: reboot into single-user mode
07:48<lupine_85>then change the password
07:48<alex_>through lilo?
07:48<Brudus>Is there any way I can get more controll over the mouse. Namley I wan't to increase the ammount of lines scrolled with the scroll wheel. I went in the mouse section of the Gnome control center, but no options for the scroll wheel was there.
07:48<lupine_85>yep, if that's what you're using as a bootloader
07:48<alex_>yeah i am, ah i see that now
07:48<alex_>ill try that
07:49<VivekVC>How do i change my locale ?
07:50<gsimmons_>!tell VivekVC -about locale
07:51<alex_>lupine_85: booting into single user mode brings up a gui login for me
07:51<alex_>im on etch btw
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07:53<alex_>i can login as the normal user "user" as i know that password
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07:54<alex_>lupine_85: in single user mode, should it be logging me in as root automaticly?
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07:55<ifvoid>alex_: no, it shoudl ask for a root password
07:56<alex_>yes but, thats what i dont know :)
07:56<alex_>ahhh, i got it
07:57<alex_>i guessed what it was
07:57<alex_>sweeet, i have access agian :)
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07:57<alex_>hmmmmm so, in single user mode, i saw the insert root password for maintanence
07:58<alex_>or control d to continue
07:58<alex_>but since i dont know the root pass...... i hit ctrl-d
07:58<lupine_85>yep, that's the one :)
07:59<alex_>so i enter in the new root pass there?
07:59<alex_>when it asks me?
08:00<lupine_85>erm. it's been a while since I've done it, and it's not something I can walk through right now ;). You should get to a root shell, then you can run passwd
08:00<lupine_85>maybe it needs init=/bin/bash as well
08:01<gsimmons_>!i forgot root's password
08:01<dpkg>1) 'linux init=/bin/sh' at a lilo boot prompt (hold Shift while booting to make one appear), 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) reboot -d -f (exec /sbin/init should work); For GRUB (e.g. sarge): in step 1, press 'e' to edit the kernel setting (add init=/bin/sh to the end of it), 'b' to boot. Steps 2-6 are the same.
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08:08<alex_>ah, thanks :)
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08:10<sheldonh>when you backport packages and put them in your own repo, what's the best practice for ensuring that hosts who pick up upgrades can roll back to a previous version quickly? reprepro removes older versions of packages when you add newer versions, so your repo only ever has the latest packages in it
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08:40<bighornram>I'm having problem watching dvd with mplayer. getting error opening/initializing the selected video_out (-vo) device.
08:41<bighornram>also "could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound."
08:42<cahoot>not something simple like missing perms/group membership?
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09:07<twb>fxiny: what?
09:09<enkrypt>ok I have an offtopic question here: with what kind of software do you make slick diagrams like this one:
09:10<twb>omnigraffle, if you like non-Free stuff.
09:10<enkrypt>thats made with inkscape? I have seen such style diagrams a couple of times before, but nowhere it is mentioned how to make those. I am stuck using "dia" and thats quite ugly...
09:11<twb>Recent versions of Inkscape have connectors.
09:11<enkrypt>sweet :) what about the icons? do those come standard on inkscape?
09:11<twb>For that, see
09:12<twb>That image was almost certainly made with Omnigraffle, FWIW
09:12<enkrypt>I just found it via the inkscape website too :) thanks a lot for this
09:12<twb>It uses drop-shadows everywhere
09:12<enkrypt>yeah omnigraffle looks very slick
09:12<enkrypt>I'm working on my master's thesis, and I'm stuck with quite ugly Dia diagrams
09:13<enkrypt>crap, omnigraffle is mac only?
09:13<fxiny>twb: i was looking at a lisp web framework page called
09:13<twb>You can also use LaTeX
09:13<enkrypt>twb: I do use latex
09:13<twb>fxiny: you want UCW (UnCommon Web), Seaside or HApps.
09:13<twb>enkrypt: I mean to draw the diagrams
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09:13<fxiny>twb: tx , looks interesting
09:13<enkrypt>twb: which package is good for diagrams on TeX?
09:14<twb>Metapost, for one.
09:14<twb>There are probably others, I don't know offhand.
09:15<enkrypt>unfortunately omnigraffle is mac only, so i'll go with inkscape and openclipart. thanks!
09:15<fxiny>twb: UCW and Seaside are linked , and CL-WHO
09:15<twb>Obvious advantages of using LaTeX are that 1) the source is human-readable, and easy to version control elegantly; and 2) you can do things like have arrows from parts of the text to other parts.
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09:16<fxiny>twb: there is a test page
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09:18<zns>hello world!
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09:19<twb>zns: I doubt that very much.
09:20<zns>twb: why?
09:20<dpkg>from memory, vim is the only true editor, or does syntax highlighting, has graphical X interface. Extremely popular vi clone that does syntax highlighting or don't forget to get .vimrc file from or the best thing since sliced bread, an editor that rocks your socks!!!, or something very cool, said because we need to have as long a block of text as the emacs factoid
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09:21<dpkg>emacs is the extensible macro editor that is already quite extensively extended. A popular editor choice with major and minor modes for almost every conceivable language and task. High priests of emacs have even been known to use emacs as their shell, and sometimes have whole systems with init=/usr/bin/emacs. [Escape Meta Alt Control Shift]
09:21<sheldonh>i've forgotten the dpkg keyphrase that tells you how to select a system-wide default editor
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09:23<zns>?, ???
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09:32<verte>hello all :) how do I remove a broken package?
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09:34<verte>sorry, nevermind. I used the wrong package name :P
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09:37<qwaz>I just set up my new computer but fail to get the sound working. Could the built in sound in the HD2900XT be too new?
09:38<verte>no :( that wasn't it. I'm trying to install tetex and I used the sid repository by mistake. the install failed [subprocess dpgk returned an error of 1], and now I can't work out how to remove the package.
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09:39<twb>verte: aptitude search ~B
09:39<twb>verte: is anything listed?
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09:40<verte>ten things
09:40<verte>remove these first?
09:40<twb>I'm not sure tetex is even IN sid anymore; it's no longer developed upstream and people were advised (by upstream) to switch to texlive.
09:41<twb>verte: those are all the broken packages on your system.
09:41<Metalqga>i solved my connection problems
09:41|-|deepak [deepak@] has quit []
09:41<Metalqga>i had to disable apic
09:43[~]Ten punches the whole idea of software megacorporations in the throat, and pulls its nose off.
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09:45<twb>Ten: megacorps are faceless
09:45<verte>it doesn't seem to actually have the packages, eight of the packages it reports are 'p' and two are 'v'
09:45<twb>OK, so they are scheduled for install, but not installed
09:45<Ten>They are now, mate.
09:45<twb>v means virtual.
09:46<twb>p means purged -- removed and without local configuration
09:46<verte>so all I have to do is tell apt I don't have them installed?
09:47<verte>how.. do I do that?
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09:47<twb>You've asked apt to install them, and now it's saying that doing so will cause problems.
09:47<twb>It's unrelated to you original problem.
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09:50<verte>I think the install from stable should be ok see, but it won't let me, because it can't remove the other packages.
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09:52<gsimmons_>qwaz: Possibly. Sound controllers in video cards now? That's... interesting. Please pastebin the output you receive from 'lspci'.
09:52<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel use instead: or or for pics.
09:52[~]fxiny will try Ten punch-and-go combo tomorrow morning , with Simba : a Circus Medrano employee
09:53<qwaz>gsimmons_: Thanks for the paste warning!!! :)
09:54<sheldonh>does a regular install of debian (server, not workstation) include sudo?
09:54<verte>user: dfd?
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09:55<a207x>What's K3B in dpkg's news?
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09:56<dpkg>hmm... k3b is A sophisticated KDE cd burning application, or, or 'teh uber'!
09:56<fxiny>uber uber
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09:57<a207x>Okay, thank you.
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09:57<qwaz>gsimmons_: I tried to upload it to http// (apparently the new name), but cannot see it. Can you?
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09:58<fxiny>anytime someone say k3b . don't know why but i can't resist laughing at nero4linux ...
09:58<formorer>qwaz: don't press the upload button, but the send button (yes I know, I have to fix the interface)
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09:58<qwaz>formorer: ok, I did... :(
09:58<twb>FSVO sophisticated = GUI
09:58<bcochofel>Hi, I'm using debian etch and I have my php-pear is broken. Is there anything I can do besides compiling it myself?
09:59|-|mode/#debian [+l 308] by debhelper
09:59<twb>bcochofel: in what way is it broken?
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09:59<qwaz>aaa, not it works!
09:59<pumpkin0>bcochofel: complain loudly, but clearly in the bts.
09:59<qwaz>gebruiker5_ tjena
10:00<qwaz>aaa, now it works!
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10:01<twb>qwaz: what language is that?
10:01<Metalqga>fxiny what?
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10:01<qwaz>twb: Swedish slang
10:02<twb>Ah, swedish
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10:03<qwaz>The user gebruiker5_ [which looks like Dutch] for user wrote 'hej', so I assumed he was Swedish...
10:04<qwaz>gsimmons_: Did you see the lspci output?
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10:05<gsimmons_>qwaz: I did. Nothing regarding the chipset type, but it's likely to be one of the IXP SBxxx's.
10:05<bcochofel>pear update-channels gives me: XML-RPC Server Fault: server error. method not found. channel.listAll
10:06<bcochofel>I was talking in the php channel and someone told me he had the same error under etch
10:06<bcochofel>pecl gives me the same
10:07<qwaz>gsimmons_: alsaconf tries to identify it with either two Intel options or an ISA card. None of those work.
10:08<qwaz>gsimmons_: "hda-intel Intel Corporation Unknown device 293e (rev 02)" and "hda-intel ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device aa00
10:08<ranix>google that string
10:08<ranix>hda-intel intel corporation unknown device 293e
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10:09<ranix>that one should be the audio device. Intel onboard audio is fucked up. Both audio and video are integrated into the northbridge
10:10<ranix>I don't know why it thinks it sees an ATI Technologies Inc device though
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10:10<bcochofel>twb: did you see the error it gives me?
10:11<gsimmons_>ranix: It's on the video card itself.
10:11<twb>bcochofel: hmm?
10:11<bcochofel>twb: pear update-channels gives me: XML-RPC Server Fault: server error. method not found. channel.listAll
10:11<qwaz>The graphics card (HD2900XT) has its own sound and apparently the motherboard too. I didn't realize that.
10:11<twb>bcochofel: yes, I saw it. I have no idea what it means.
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10:13<pumpkin0>qwaz: welcome to the wonderful world of HDMI.
10:13<verte>todo: write script to find out what files were written to tonight and decide what to do with them. good morning all.
10:13<verte>and thank you twb
10:13<qwaz>pumpkin0: GPL3 was supposed to take care of that?
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10:14<pumpkin0>qwaz: what has a licenze todo with a connector ?
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10:14<ranix>what kind of video card has integrated audio
10:14<ranix>even the all-in-wonder shouldn't have had that
10:15<ranix>? I am confused
10:15<pumpkin0>qwaz: HDMI, the little thing that connects PCs to big screens and delivers video and audio in one cable.
10:15<pumpkin0>ranix: ^^
10:15<ranix>I hate hdmi
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10:15<pumpkin0>ranix: wel.... welcome to the wonderful world of HDMI.
10:15<ranix>what is wrong with dvi
10:16<ranix>one cable to rule them all
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10:16<pumpkin0>ranix: i like Displayport best. open, no-paying-for-lisence standard.
10:16<qwaz>pumpkin0: This:
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10:17<ranix>hdmi has a restrictive license?
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10:18<pumpkin0>ranix: you have to pay for using it.
10:18<cheeseboy>how do i add myself to mysql users ?
10:19<ranix>i.e. you have to pay to interface with it?
10:19|-|piotrek [] has quit []
10:19<pumpkin0>ranix: you pay to use it on your product. Every HDMI-port out there earns some lucky bugger X cents...
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10:20<dolphin>how do i use beryl on lenny ?
10:20|-|deb_usr [] has joined #debian
10:20<ranix>I disbelieve
10:20<pumpkin0>dolphin: you rename it to compiz and have fun.
10:20<qwaz>dolphin: I think beryl is deprecated today
10:20<dolphin>why ?
10:21<ranix>if I buy an HDMI connector and stick it on my IC, I don't have topay anyone jack squat right?
10:21<qwaz>dolphin: they became friends...
10:21<dolphin>friends of who ?
10:21<pumpkin0>dolphin: compiz and berly.
10:21<qwaz>beryl was a fork of the original, compiz
10:21<dolphin>ok. how do i use compiz for my debian lenny amd64 ?
10:22<qwaz>aptitude install compiz?
10:22<ranix>same way you do for etch
10:22<ranix>find an etch howto
10:22<dolphin>aptitude ? why not apt-get ?
10:23<qwaz>dolphin: sorry. that works too.
10:23<dolphin>on my source.list there is no compiz for my lenny
10:23<qwaz>dolphin: If uou, like me, have a new ATi card your fsckd
10:23<dolphin>i wanna install it for my laptop
10:24<lupine>lenny has compiz 0.2 by the looks of it
10:24<ranix>you can still use AIGLX
10:24<dolphin>compaq presrio
10:24<pumpkin0>ranix: the long edition =>
10:24<pumpkin0>dolphin: what card ?
10:24<ranix>thanks pumpkin0, I have to find out how retarded this is
10:25<qwaz>compiz 0.2 looks 'good enough'
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10:25<pumpkin0>dolphin: intel builds about 60 mainstream chips right now. So i guess you have a .... PentiumM ?
10:25<dolphin>intel core 2 duo
10:25<ranix>someone should patent the process of forcing patent/license-bound industry standards for profit
10:25|-|yos87 [] has joined #debian
10:25<pumpkin0>dolphin: should i geuss again about the gfx-chip or will you tell me ?
10:26<qwaz>The important thing is that you need aiglx support.
10:26<ranix>forget software patents, hardware patents are fucked up too
10:26<pumpkin0>ranix: i think that one is owned by IBM...
10:26<yos87>somebody know any flv player for Debian ?
10:26<ranix>just because they aren't evil doesn't mean they're not doing it wrong
10:26<dolphin>pumpkin0 ; intel chipset
10:26<pumpkin0>yos87: flashvideo ? mplayer.
10:27|-|realniko [] has joined #debian
10:27<pumpkin0>dolphin: that narrows it down to 40 possible chips.
10:27|-|grownler [] has joined #debian
10:27<dolphin>then ? can i use compiz ?
10:27<qwaz>dolphin: try it.
10:27<dolphin>i already said that im using amd64
10:27<dolphin>debian lenny
10:27<yos87>pumpkin0: not working, error opening/intializing the selected video_out 9-vo) device.
10:27<dolphin>on my intel core 2 duo laptop
10:28<pumpkin0>yos87: are you logged in as root ?
10:28<qwaz>dolphin: The graphic card that you have is the critivcal piece. Not the CPU.
10:28<yos87>pumpkin0: no
10:28<yos87>pumpkin0: not root
10:28<ranix>you are using amd64 on your core 2 duo laptop
10:28<dolphin>critical ? so i cant use compiz ?
10:28<pumpkin0>yos87: can you use other programs like xcalc w/o problems ?
10:28<ranix>instead of em64t
10:28<dolphin>ranix ; yes i do
10:28<ranix>are you retarded?
10:29<dolphin>em64t ? what is that ?
10:29<yos87>pumpkin0: I don't know the xcalc, I have the VLC and the totem and Xine , all are workling, But not for flv
10:29<ranix>what you should be using
10:29<yos87>pumpkin0: what is the xcalc?
10:29<dolphin>for intel ?
10:29|-|chrischi [] has joined #debian
10:29<qwaz>dolphin: EM64T is intels name for AMD64
10:29|-|cydork [] has joined #debian
10:30<pumpkin0>yos87: a standard calc-prog to test your xserver is not gone.
10:30<dolphin>what is the difference between amd64 and emt64 ?
10:30<witte> !tell dolphin about amd64
10:30<qwaz>dolphin: The producer behind it. Otherwise, they are the same
10:30<witte> !tell dolphin about em64t
10:31<yos87>pumpkin0: removing and reinstalling the mplayer might help?
10:31<pumpkin0>dolphin: what laptop are you using ? Complet model number, OK ?
10:31<ranix>wait a sec
10:31<dolphin>compaq presario v3521
10:31<ranix>em64t and amd64 are the same thing?
10:31<pumpkin0>yos87: installing the unoffical edtition from multimedia-repos would be an good idea.
10:31<dolphin>i think there are the same
10:31<pumpkin0>ranix: yes.
10:31<ranix>wow I dropped the ball on that one
10:31<pumpkin0>ranix: it does not matter if you run amd64 or em64T...
10:31<ranix>sorry about that dolphin
10:32<dolphin>pumpkin0 ; so there is no problem installing amd64 instead of emt64
10:32<ranix>I thought they were apples and oranges, like HyperTransport vs Quad-Pumping
10:32<pumpkin0>dolphin: no. But since i still don't know what freaking gfx-chip you use ...
10:32<dolphin>there is no problem on my laptop using amd64 lenny
10:32<qwaz>dolphin: No. Go ahead.
10:33<yos87>pumpkin0: the mplayer give this error for running any file, not just the flv
10:33<pumpkin0>yos87: you sure you are logged in correctly ?
10:33<qwaz>dolphin: Why would you need 64-bit?
10:33<ranix>might as well use 64 bit extensions no?
10:33|-|torrr [] has joined #debian
10:33<ranix>there aren't any detriments?
10:33<yos87>pumpkin0: i'm using GUI, root will not working on graphic, yes sure, I'm not root
10:33<qwaz>On a laptop?!
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10:34<pumpkin0>ranix: the plain fact is: 64Bit only has a edge over 32Bit if you have more then 3GB RAM or deal with very large files.
10:34<ranix>What, does it use more power? It shouldn't make much of a difference aside from floating point calculations
10:34<pumpkin0>ranix: floats did not change a single bit from 32 to 64...
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10:34<qwaz>ranix: All files increase by some percent too.
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10:35<qwaz>I have 4GB on this machince, which is why I chose it.
10:35<ranix>what do you use 4GB of ram for
10:35<qwaz>but on a laptop, no. Besides, not all apps are 64-bit proof yet.
10:36<fxiny>4g are pretty good for a gazillions xen
10:36<yos87>pumpkin0: what to do?
10:36<ranix>I'm still unclear on what changed from 32 to 64
10:36<pumpkin0>qwaz: did it map th gfx-RAM and PCI-adress space correctly first go (read: can you use the full 4GB)?
10:36<qwaz>ranix: Vista and games...
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10:36<pumpkin0>yos87: how did you install mplayer ?
10:36<fxiny>let me have one and i'll play for the next three years at least
10:36<ranix>wait why would you have vista on your linux machine
10:37<qwaz>pumpkin0: Yes, I run Debian Unstable and it finds it fine.
10:37<fxiny>vista ? wt4x !
10:37<dolphin>room ;
10:37<yos87>pumpkin0: before, I had problem, there was no sound, someone guide me here to do killall -9 esd, after it, i get it work, But I have to do this eatch time I run the system
10:37<dolphin>this is my laptop
10:37<qwaz>i have a dual boot, using grub. Works fine.
10:37<seanius>yos87: if you don't want esd, you can put a pkill esd on your session startup
10:37<yos87>pumpkin0: I don't remember exactly, I think apt-get , I know only this way , hehe
10:37<ranix>why bother having debian if you're dual booting
10:38<ranix>The whole point to me is to have a machine that I can always get to
10:38<pumpkin0>yos87: did you ever hear about the multimedia-repos ?
10:38<dolphin>Q: Is this port only for AMD 64-bit CPUs?
10:38<dolphin>A: No. "amd64" is the name chosen by AMD for their 64-bit architecture. Before release, it was called "x86_64", and some distributions continue to use this name. Intel refers to its x86_64 instruction set CPUs as "EM64T". The architecture is still the same, and Debian amd64 will run on AMD and Intel x86 processors with 64-bit support. In honor of the inventing company, AMD, Debian uses the name
10:38<yos87>seanius: how to do that?
10:38<qwaz>ranix: Because I have only games on the Vista partition.
10:38<seanius>yos87: do you use gnome?
10:38<ranix>and isn't Vista horrible for games?
10:38<yos87>pumpkin0: no, I didn't , sorry, I'm little new
10:38<ranix>compared to XP anyway
10:38<yos87>seanius: yes, Gnome
10:38<qwaz>ranix: no!
10:38<ranix>what game is going to use 4GB of ram
10:39<seanius>yos87: okay, then go to system->preferences->sessions
10:39<qwaz>Have you tried DX10 games on XP?
10:39<ranix>that's FOUR JIGGABYTES
10:39<seanius>and add a new entry in "startup programs"
10:39<deb_usr>yos87 : hi yos87
10:39<yos87>deb_usr: how are you?
10:39<seanius>give it a nice title and put in pkill esd as the command
10:39<ranix>Like what dx10 games? I thought that one that was going to use it didn't even come out yet
10:39<qwaz>ranix: Those 4GB cost me 95 dollars
10:40<ranix>qwaz: aah, now I see the method to your madness
10:40<ranix>carry on
10:40<pumpkin0>qwaz: what chipset do you use ? (I'm thinking about a new 4GB RAM setup too, but i think dansdata is right about the problems: )
10:40<fxiny>95 ? not bad
10:41<pumpkin0>ranix: well, vsta uses 2GB foritself, 1 for prefetch and the rest is for the games and apps. See, no problem ...
10:41<yos87>seanius: ok, I went
10:41<grownler>bye all
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10:41<qwaz>pumpkin0: In my machine it locks up about 1.3 GB
10:41<yos87>seanius: I don't have esd on the startup programs
10:41<ranix>you mean vista actually uses ram?
10:41<pumpkin0>qwaz: (this is #debian. You have to bash mircosot in here)
10:42<qwaz>pumpkin0: :D
10:42<pumpkin0>ranix: like every other OS too...
10:42|-|bcochofel [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:42<qwaz>pumpkin0: So, you admit Vista is an OS?
10:42<ranix>I thought they would put everything in cache like XP so that if a user happens to look at the task manager they say "wow, I have so many resources left"
10:42|-|piper [] has quit [Quit: choice to the neXt generation]
10:42<ranix>while the disk is thrashing the whole time
10:43<pumpkin0>qwaz: yes. So is DOS 3.0
10:43<dolphin>can i use compiz, beryl on this
10:43<deb_usr>yos87 : i'm fine thank you. and you ??
10:43<ranix>Nothing thrashes like xp with only 200 megs of ram used when you have two jiggabytes
10:43<qwaz>dolphin: congrats!
10:43<yos87>deb_usr: I'm fine , Thank you
10:43<pumpkin0>dolphin: probaly yes. But the X3100 is not fully supported yet so the speed may be a bit slow...
10:44<deb_usr>yos87 : have ever worked with php ?
10:44<dolphin>pumpkin0 ; im using debian lenny (testing) , is there any problem running beryl ?
10:44<seanius>yos87: i think it automatically gets started without being listed
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10:45<ranix>dolphin: do a Beryl roll
10:45<yos87>seanius: yes, not in list
10:45<dolphin>beryl roll ?
10:45<dolphin>what is that ?
10:45<qwaz>pumpkin0: What was the issue in the Dan article?
10:45<seanius>yos87: but you can still kill it from the startup programs
10:45<fxiny>yahhh gangia compiz as well :P
10:46<ranix>you rotate the plane on its axis, while pulling up slightly
10:46<ranix>it helps you evade gunfire
10:46<yos87>seanius: how? where to go? seasson option, current seassion , or startup programs?
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10:47<pumpkin0>qwaz: he complains that some chipsets/CPU cannot remap the RAM. So you lose the adresses from 3-3,5 GB to the PCI-Bus, some space to the VideoRAM... and so on. I want to buy achipset that WORKS and remaps correctly.
10:47|-|s0d0 [~john@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:47<seanius>yos87: in startup programs, click new, give it a descriptive title and for the command put pkill esd
10:47<fxiny>bloody damned hardware vendors tricks
10:47<qwaz>In the apps I have tried, it lists 4GB... Which might not be same as being able to use it. Any tests?
10:48<pumpkin0>fxiny: (Dell sells a 4GB RAM, 512MB gfx with windows 32Bit. Go figure...)
10:48<ranix>Dell is super efficient at everything they do
10:48<qwaz>pumpkin0: In Vista I have used it with all these overclocker apps.
10:49<pumpkin0>qwaz: vista shows it correctly in the hardware-manager... if vista works linux should work too...
10:49<yos87>seanius: I did
10:49<pumpkin0>qwaz: first test: /proc/meminfo ?
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10:49<qwaz>pumpkin0: Is there any Debian app which might do a similar trick?
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10:50<yos87>pumpkin0: what to do with my mplayer?
10:50<pumpkin0>qwaz: thats a file in the proc system. i run etch and it is there.
10:50<ranix>hey come on you know proc
10:50<ranix>proc is your friend
10:50<pumpkin0>!tell yos87 about debian-multimedia
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10:51<pumpkin0>qwaz: the first line should be right ..
10:51<yos87>pumpkin0: I have that in my sources.list
10:51<pumpkin0>yos87: apt-get update; apt-get install mplayer
10:52<dolphin>mplayer problem on debian lenny is, it cannot be play on fullscreen mode
10:52<pumpkin0>qwaz: nice, linux can see the whole 4GB. Waht chipset do you use ?
10:52<dolphin>sorry , gmplayer
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10:52<yos87>pumpkin0: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded ??
10:53<fxiny>dolphin: what ? -fs zoom not working in lenny ?
10:53<dolphin>it can only play fullscreen mode if i type mplayer video.avi -zoom
10:53<pumpkin0>yos87: OK, so the newest version is installed.
10:53<dolphin>then press f on key board
10:53<pumpkin0>dolphin: that is the beta-style x310 driver at work.
10:53<yos87>pumpkin0: I keep it as it is not working?
10:53<dolphin>fxiny ; how can i play VCD with mplayer using command line ?
10:53<dolphin>or DVD ?
10:54<ranix>using the framebuffer or using X
10:54<pumpkin0>yos87: launch gmplayer ?
10:54<pumpkin0>dolphin: mplayer dvd://1
10:54<dolphin>gmplayer cannot play fullscreen
10:54<ranix>dolphin: yes it can
10:54<dolphin>can ?
10:54<fxiny>dolphin: dvd://1 (or 2) -fs -zoom -af volume=10 -dvd-device /dev/hdc
10:54<yos87>pumpkin0: I did , mplayer opened
10:54<ranix>choose a different video device
10:54<pumpkin0>ranix: (it cannot if the driver is so broken like the intel x3100...)
10:55[~]abrotman cans dolphin
10:55<ranix>or whatever that's called
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10:55<abrotman>sorry .. couldn't resist
10:55<dolphin>what is -fs ?
10:55<pumpkin0>yos87: can that one play the file ?
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10:55<dolphin>sorry, im on windows now
10:55<qwaz>pumpkin0: P35 and Intel ICH9R
10:55<fxiny>dolphin: or : dvd://1 -fs -zoom -dvd-device /path/to/VIDEO_TS
10:55<yos87>pumpkin0: any file give the same error
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10:55<pumpkin0>qwaz: I was thinking about the G35 (same thing, but with onborad gfx. I don't do games). thanks for the info.
10:56<pumpkin0>yos87: but vlc & Co can play at least some mpegs ?
10:56<pumpkin0>yos87: did you try and rename ~/.mplayer ?
10:56<yos87>pumpkin0: I try to play mpg file, it opened a text windows show playback text , anbd there is Video: no video
10:57<yos87>the sound worked
10:57<yos87>pumpkin0: I want to play the flv files
10:57<yos87>I didn't rename anything
10:57<pumpkin0>yos87: mplayer is using something strange for video output. It should not do that unless something in the config tells it.
10:57<lappy>i've made a script in /etc/init.d which is supposed to run some other script. then ran update-rc.d myscript defaults, and checked the rc.X links. Everything is executable, but on boot, the script is not run - why?
10:58<pumpkin0>yos87: thats why i want you to rename the config so mplayer has to use the default config again.
10:58<lappy>the /etc/init.d/myscript is #!/bin/sh [newline] /home/myuser/scriptToRun
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10:59<yos87>pumpkin0: I rename all of .mplayer or the text config file?
10:59<pumpkin0>yos87: just rename the dir.
11:00<yos87>I did,
11:00<yos87>now I run mplayer?
11:00<pumpkin0>yos87: gmplayer and open a normal file...
11:01<qwaz>pumpkin0: That's ok I run with vesa-drivers... :S
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11:01<dolphin>i using enlightenment , can i use beryl on that ?
11:01<pumpkin0>qwaz: well at least the G35 is supported a bit with the intel-driver ...
11:01<pumpkin0>dolphin: no. Gnome or KDE only.
11:02<pumpkin0>dolphin: (at least until someone hacks around a bit ...)
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11:02<dolphin>lol, i love enlightenement
11:03<qwaz>dolphin: You could try Beryl using a LiveCD
11:03<yos87>pumpkin0: not working, the same error exactley, what is the website name where to past a long log file and link it?
11:03<fxiny>we ,fluxbox users ,don't care about such deprecated hacks :P
11:03<dpkg>Please don't paste more than 3 lines here in the channel, use instead: or or or for pics. --- Also ask me: pastebin pipe
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11:03<qwaz>dolphin: i mean compiz
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11:04<yos87>dpkg: i know this, I use to go out alone whe I do that
11:04|-|dsl [] has quit []
11:04<pumpkin0>qwaz: (he could always watch the effects for 2-3 hours on youtube and then get back to a useable, fast ,... system)
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11:05<fxiny>yos87: be carefull with dpkg : is a tyrant
11:05<fxiny> dpkg rulez
11:05<dpkg>Yeah, I do, don't I?
11:05<pumpkin0>yos87: dpkg in here is a bot. talking to him is a bit like talking to a stone ...
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11:05<qwaz>pumpkin0: But he rulez, doesn't he?
11:06<pumpkin0>yos87: try mplayer -vo xv,x11 file-you-want.
11:06<pumpkin0>qwaz: sure. just like the machines in the matrix...
11:07<yos87>pumpkin0: sometimes he use to say hi alone
11:07<qwaz>pumpkin0: But they are so cruel
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11:08<yos87>pumpkin0: video worked
11:08<pumpkin0>yos87: and sound failed ??
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11:08<Danyael_X>Hi! everybody a quick question on CVS/SVN, do I have to use a client or can I just use wget to get a development snapshot to run bleeding edge? I'm not a developer I just want to test some of the development software on a few projects.
11:08<yos87>pumpkin0: no, both worked fine
11:09<pumpkin0>yos87: OK, try the flv ?
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11:09<yos87>pumpkin0: also worked very fine
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11:10<Maulkin>Danyael_X: if they've released a snapshot of whatever you're trying to get, you can use that. For CVS/SVN, you need a client
11:10<pumpkin0>yos87: edit ~/.mplayer/config and add the line "-vo x11,xv". try gmplayer
11:10<pumpkin0>yos87: (gmplayer w/o any options)
11:10<Danyael_X>Maulkin: Thanks for the help!
11:11<yos87>pumpkin0: I add it with the [ - ] or just the vo x11,xv?
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11:12<pumpkin0>yos87: "vo=x11,xv" ... wait, lets do this right. Check /etc/mplayer/mplayer.config. The first option should be vo=xv,
11:12<yos87>no, it's emptey
11:12<yos87>I add it?
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11:13<pumpkin0>yos87: yes... this is mine:
11:14<pumpkin0>yos87: it changes the systemwide behavior of mplayer so be careful.
11:15<yos87>this is mine
11:15<yos87>can I use yours?
11:15<yos87>all file
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11:16<pumpkin0>yos87: append it to yours. (Mine seems to be from a older mplayer version...)
11:17<yos87>I don't need the lines with # , right
11:18<pumpkin0>yos87: right.
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11:20<yos87>pumpkin0: I'm sorry, the same error
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11:21<pumpkin0>yos87: add the line "vo=xv,x11" to ~/.mplayer/config
11:22<yos87>also same,
11:23<yos87>I add it to .mplayer/conf
11:23<yos87>there is gui.conf
11:23<pumpkin0>yos87: your mplayer is not sane...
11:23<pumpkin0>yos87: gui.conf is about different things.
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11:24<yos87>pumpkin0: i'm sorry , I made you headatch , sorry for trouble, what does san mean?
11:24<pumpkin0>yos87: sane = works the way it should and reacts to commands in the usual way.
11:25<lontra>anyone know if theer is a way to embed kplayer in konqueror?
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11:25<pumpkin0>yos87: did you add vo=x11,xv or did you add -vo x11,xv ?
11:25<sheldonh>weird. two fresh debian etch boxes with rsync installed, one of them isn't using SSH as the transport when i do "rsync -avz --delete-after /path/ user@remote_host::path/" -- it tries to connect to port 873 on the remote_host
11:25<sheldonh>any ideas?
11:26<yos87>pumplin0: I add vo=xv,x11 witout space after xv,
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11:28<twb>sheldonh: -e ssh
11:28<sheldonh>twb: it's not the default on debian? i must have RSH_SSH set on the working box
11:28<pumpkin0>yos87: OK, i'm out of ideas. Use the command-line options and ask #mplayer about the config file (they answer after some time... mostly)
11:28<twb>sheldonh: 873 is the rsync protocol
11:29<twb>sheldonh: it's trying to use rsyncd <--> rsync
11:29<sheldonh>twb: yeah i get it, just not sure _why_ it's doing that :)
11:29<twb>NFI, sorry
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11:29<twb>You could diff /etc on the two hosts ;-)
11:30<yos87>pumpkin0: no body on the #mplayer , anyhow, Thank you very much for help
11:30<twb>yos87: #mplayer on freenode
11:30<abrotman>yos87: on freenode
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11:32<fxiny>another new change ? --delete-after and user@remote_host::path/ ?: i'm running out of brain cells !
11:32<fxiny>any stupid delete-before coming ? :P
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11:35<sheldonh>twb: aha! it's the difference between :: and : :)
11:35<twb>Hmm, I normally only use- yeah
11:36<fxiny>of course : what was wrong with user@remote_host:path/ ?
11:37<sheldonh>fxiny: i doubled it by mistake, copying text from a script that uses rdiff-backup
11:37<fxiny>i still can't stand tar jxvf , i prefere tar -jxvf ...
11:37<Woodje>I've got a problem with network interface bonding on etch. About 60 secs after boot, the default gateway disapears. At the sametime the link-local entry appears in the routing table, and a 169. address gets assigned to one of the interfaces. Anyone know what could be going on? (zeroconf is not installed).
11:37<fxiny>sheldonh: ahhhh is you ! ok ok . FINE !
11:38<fxiny>i mean : commandline should never change imho
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11:41<sheldonh>fxiny: i agree
11:41<sheldonh>fxiny: if you really want rsh, you set RSYNC_RSH=rsh
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11:43<fxiny>sheldonh: i appreciate , for example logic suggests tar -jxvg instead of tar jxvf cause when printing - the brain start thinking about something else . the space between tar and jxvf should count zero in term of logic .
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11:44<fxiny>that's why i hate tar zxvf file
11:44<sheldonh>fxiny: honestly, i wish tar would grow up and use a single flag for "this is a compressed tarball, use filemagic to figure out what it is and use the right tool to decompress"
11:45<fxiny>like freebsd iirc ?
11:45<fxiny>or is sun ? can't recall atm
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11:46<sheldonh>fxiny: not freebsd, i don't think. they also added the stupid -j flag
11:46<Pryon>definitely not sun
11:46<Pryon>(at least not the ancient version of solaris we use at work)
11:46<fxiny>who got the open command ? can't rememnber it
11:47<cahoot>aren't j and -v already obsoleted?
11:47<cahoot>err j and z
11:48<yos87>pumpkin0: it worked fine, they helped me on the mplayer
11:48<fxiny>cahoot: no idead . lemme see
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11:49<yos87>pumpkin0: he asked me to open the gmplayer, and then right click , preference, and he asked me to select the xv and restart, it worked fine
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11:50<fxiny>cahoot: you are right : tar xvf works
11:51<fxiny>i can accept it cause i don't need to focus on a z or j . i save my brain
11:51<cahoot>lots of j's and z's unemployed now
11:51<fxiny>yes ?
11:51<fxiny>i did not know it
11:52<cahoot>AKA lame joke
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11:56<fxiny>ok : i can decompress a gz and bz2 by tar -(tm)xvf . good !
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11:59<fxiny>but compressing it is something different : i have to j or z up a dir
11:59<daniele>cahoot: starting with wich version of tar? in my man page for tar there is nothing about this
12:00<fxiny>a bz2 is : bzip2 compressed data, block size = 900k while a z is POSIX tar archive
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12:01<cahoot>tar (GNU tar) 1.16.1 here - that's alla I know on the matter - daniele
12:02<fxiny>1.16.1 ? i have 1.16-2
12:02<daniele>cahoot: same version here. where did you get the info about obsolescence of j and z short options?
12:03<cahoot>daniele, read it on some blog on another matter
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12:03<fxiny>i think this is pretty logic : i need not to read the extension . i like it
12:05<fxiny>and of course if i want a bz2 i must tell
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12:05<mikegrb>but old habits die hard
12:05<mikegrb>my fingers know to type j or z automatically
12:05<mikegrb>it will take me a long time to train them to leave it off ;)
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12:08<fxiny>anyway this is an improvement
12:08<fxiny>i have not to think when decompressing
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12:14<fxiny>i found out hwre is the "open" command : is a mac os x . this means : i do not like it at all !
12:15<fxiny>i am such an open minded person :P
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12:23<chealer>daniele: "Compressed archives are recognised automatically, it is no longer necessary to specify -Z, -z, or -j options to read them. Thus, you can now run tar tf archive.tar.gz and expect it to work!"
12:23<alex_>fuck its about time that it did
12:24<chealer>alex_: please watch your language
12:24<alex_>got emotional on that one
12:25<sheldonh>hey cool!
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12:30<fxiny>already got used to : excellent
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12:34<alex_>in /etc/resolv.conf, whats the point of search order domains?
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12:43<monra>I used having firefox and i had installed on firefox java so i could see java plugins. Yesterdat I moved to iceweasel but no java anymore. So i download again the newest java version(the .bin file) installed and then copied the .so file to iceweasel plugins but doesn't work
12:43<monra>any ideas why?
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12:44<wiq> I have this problem with RS232. I have a weather station WM918 that communicates with a PC. I want to read the data with my Debian but it seem that there is something wrong. I've set up the paraity stop bits baud rate correct but still is the result the same. Then I tried the same on my other PC with Windows and used the program called 232Analyzer the resulted data was correct can anybody help me with this?
12:44<witte>monra: why do you not install sun-java6-plugin
12:44<witte>monra: that is a debian precompiled module
12:45<monra>E: Couldn't find package sun-java6-plugin
12:45<monra> that's why
12:45<chealer>witte: sun-java6 is only in testing
12:45<monra>E: Couldn't find package sun-java6
12:45<witte>!tell monra about install java
12:46<chealer>monra: if you don't mind, why didn't you install using sun-java5-plugin instead?
12:47<monra>should i change my /etc/sources.list for this?
12:47<witte>monra: you will have to add non-free
12:48<monra>i have non free already
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12:49<witte>monra: you are running stable? If yes, then there is no sun-java6, but only sun-java5 as chealer pointed out...
12:49<monra>cannot dinf
12:49<monra>neither 5 or 6.
12:50<witte>monra: can you put your sources.list in a pastebin
12:50<witte>!tell monra -about pastebin
12:50<monra>witte i know what pastebin is
12:50<witte>monra: ok, sorry :-)
12:51<deb_usr>can someone tell me how to increase the resolution of my screen ??
12:51<deb_usr>i'm using debian and gnome for the desktop manager
12:51<deb_usr>thank you
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12:52<chealer>deb_usr: to what? please provide your xorg.conf
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12:54<witte>monra: this is not your sources.list, and you have to run apt-get update before you can use it
12:54<monra>witte, oh sorry i thougth you wannted see errors
12:54<monra>1 min
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12:56<witte>deb_usr: there are several ways: adjusting /etc/X11/xorg.conf, using the gui tool that is in gnome, doing dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg (i think),...
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12:58<deb_usr>i see
12:59<deb_usr>but the gnome gui tool give me a maximum of 1024x768
12:59<deb_usr>i need more
12:59<deb_usr>how to do that ??
12:59<twb>deb_usr: edit xorg.conf, either directly of via the command witte gave.
13:00<twb>As you appear to be a novice, I recommend the latter.
13:00<chealer>deb_usr: to what? please provide your xorg.conf
13:01<monra>witte, ok i'm installing sun-java5-plugin, will i be able to see from iceweasel java plugins after?
13:01<deb_usr>the xorg.conf is
13:01<twb>deb_usr: use a pastebin.
13:01<witte>monra: it should
13:01<twb>monra: theoretically, yes.
13:01<witte>monra: probably you need to restart iceweasel
13:01<deb_usr># /etc/X11/xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file)
13:01<deb_usr># This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using
13:01<deb_usr># values from the debconf database.
13:01|-|deb_usr kicked [#debian] debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
13:02<monra>witte, ok thanks
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13:02<deb_usr>twb : how ??
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13:03<witte>!tell deb_user about pastebin
13:03<chealer>deb_usr: don't paste more than 3 lines here.
13:04<deb_usr>how can i show my xorg.conf then ??
13:04<chealer>!tell deb_usr about paste
13:04<witte>deb_usr: go to a pastebin, like dpkg told you, paste it there, and copy the link to the page here...
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13:05<monra>!tell monra about c
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13:06<witte>!tell monra about selftell
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13:06<monra>witte, oh ok
13:07<witte>monra np ;-)
13:07<chealer>deb_usr: your X configuration doesn't allow anything more than 1024 x 768, so you'll need to reconfigure X.
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13:07<deb_usr>chealer : how to do that ?
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13:08<chealer>!drxx deb_usr
13:08<dpkg>deb_usr: To reconfigure your X server, run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg as root. If you're not using Xorg (sarge or earlier), dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86, and ask me about xmd5sum if you've changed XF86Config-4 yourself.
13:08|-|RasPizza changed nick to Rastamon
13:10<deb_usr>how to restart the Xserver to take my configuration changes ??
13:11<chealer>deb_usr: do you use gdm?
13:12<witte>deb_usr: you can do crtl-alt-backspace, but that is immediate ;-)
13:12<lontra>on a mixed system can i run security updates in testing or would that not be advised?
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13:14<witte>deb_usr: it worked?.
13:14<chealer>lontra: testing/sid mix?
13:14<deb_usr>even if i restarted the X server i have just 1024x768 in the gui settings ::
13:14<deb_usr>it dosn't work
13:14<chealer>deb_usr: please provide your new xorg.conf
13:14<witte>deb_usr: did you before alter /etc/X11/xorg.conf yourself?
13:14|-|joefsoD [] has joined #debian
13:15<joefsoD>is CentaurHauls a intell processor
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13:15<chealer>joefsoD: ask Google
13:15<joefsoD>what kind of fucking answer is that punk
13:16<Trashynovel>my gui isn't working
13:16<chealer>joefsoD: this is a Debian support channel. if your question isn't about Debian, it's offtopic.
13:16<Trashynovel>I mean, my kdm is loading just fine
13:16<Trashynovel>but when I log on, it just logs straight off
13:16<ifvoid>joefsoD: please watch you language
13:16<joefsoD>chealer, man, you need to get a life. Secondly, i want to select 686 vserver, but I need to be sure if it's intel or not.
13:16<chealer>deb_usr: please provide your X log
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13:17<deb_usr>where is it located ??
13:17<chealer>deb_usr: /var/log/
13:17<ifvoid>joefsoD: I doubt that you'll get anyone to help you with an attitude like that
13:17<witte>deb_usr: the dpkg-reconfigure command worked as you can see: and the log i s /var/log/Xorg.0.log
13:18<joefsoD>ifvoid, i don't have time to nag.
13:18<Pryon>don't have time to do any research either
13:18<ifvoid>fair enough
13:18|-|Valombre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:18<ifvoid>but don't expect any help from me
13:18<witte>joefsoD: what do you want, that we look it up for you on google?
13:19<CutMeOwnThroat>witte, although that seems to be true for most debian-related questions also :)
13:19<ifvoid>CutMeOwnThroat: not at all
13:19<alex_>how do you change the startup runlevel? its currently on 2 which is my GUI - i would like it booting without the gui
13:19<fxiny>CutMeOwnThroat: i need you knife
13:19<fxiny>that's my contribution ...
13:19<ifvoid>alex_: /etc/inittab
13:19<cahoot>alex_, try /msg dpgk nodm
13:19<witte>CutMeOwnThroat: yes, but often it is so that when it is a debian question, that i know which terms to put in google, while others may not...
13:20<CutMeOwnThroat>fxiny, I don't have any....
13:20<CutMeOwnThroat>!tell fxiny about dibbler
13:20<cahoot>alex_, correctly spelled though
13:20<alex_>cahoot, ifvoid, thanks
13:20<deb_usr>witte :
13:20<lontra>chealer: yeah
13:21<witte>deb_usr: i am looking at it, but it states taht "Valid modes must be between 320x200-1024x768"
13:22<deb_usr>witte : what do you meen ??
13:22<chealer>lontra: sure
13:22<witte>deb_usr: that is in the log file, not something i invent :-)
13:23<deb_usr>witte : so what should i do ?
13:23<monra>thanks bye
13:23<lontra>chealer: thanks
13:24<Trashynovel>kdm runs, but as soon as I log on, it logs off. Solutions?
13:24<fxiny>home full ?
13:24<fxiny>torrents galore ?
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13:24<witte>deb_usr: wait for someone who knows what that means, there are some people with the same problem when i goolge for that term
13:25<chealer>Trashynovel: log on what?
13:25<twb>Trashynovel: you mean it takes you back to the kdm login screen?
13:26|-|Orby [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:26<CutMeOwnThroat>witte, maybe... still, quite a lot which is painful to explain here could be easily found with a 10-minutes search.... Would be better if everyone invested 10 minutes in google 1st, then ask if that fails...
13:26<fxiny>Trashynovel: it happened to me a couple of times :)
13:26<Trashynovel>twb: correct
13:26|-|Orby [] has joined #debian
13:26<Trashynovel>although, I can't figure out why
13:26<deb_usr>witte : thanks
13:26<Trashynovel>my 1st tty is filled with errors
13:26<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, so... which ones? :)
13:26|-|monra [~monra@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:26<Trashynovel>"No space left on disk"
13:27<fxiny>seen ?
13:27<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, well. make space
13:27<witte>CutMeOwnThroat: that is true, but i am convinced that some people come here after hours of google, and we can help them in less than 5 minutes
13:27<Trashynovel>talking about "logging/"
13:27<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, .Xauthority needs to be created on login - if that fails, login will fails
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13:28<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, log on on on a text console and remove some files
13:28<Trashynovel>CutMeOwnThroat: I have over 20 GB of space on this partition
13:28<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, *free* space?
13:28<twb>CutMeOwnThroat: well, it doesn't NEED to be, but kdm requires it
13:28<Trashynovel>CutMeOwnThroat: yep!
13:29<twb>Trashynovel: on /home?
13:29<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, hm, look for other full partitions (du -h)
13:29<fxiny>i think i heard this story before ...
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13:29<twb>CutMeOwnThroat: df!
13:29<CutMeOwnThroat>witte, surely true... but that doesnt invalidate that everyone should better do a 10-minutes search before coming here :) I didnt say a 5 hours search *g*
13:29<CutMeOwnThroat>twb, right
13:29<CutMeOwnThroat>Trashynovel, sorry, "df -h"
13:30<witte>CutMeOwnThroat: true
13:30<Trashynovel>this is odd
13:30<Trashynovel>hdb1 is full
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13:30<Trashynovel>it shouldn't be
13:30<CutMeOwnThroat>witte, of course it is so much more rewarding to see the tears on their faces when being helped within 5 minutes after a several-day-chase for the solution ;)
13:31[~]Trashynovel logs onto ubuntu to chekc this out
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13:31<witte>deb_usr: you could try to do without Vsync and hsync values...
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13:31<deb_usr>wotte : how ? in xorg.conf ??
13:32<twb>Trashynovel: for what is hdb1 used?
13:32<fxiny>the day someone will say "log into fetora" instead of ubuntu i'll give up drinkning
13:32<twb>fxiny: hmm?
13:32<witte>deb_usr: yes, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg again, and you shouldn't define values for hsync and vsync
13:32<CutMeOwnThroat>the distribution for pre-born kids?
13:32<fxiny>twb: ubu became an obsession for me
13:32<deb_usr>ok i'll try
13:33<CutMeOwnThroat>(i meant "fetora") interesting idea..... h@cke4z do get younger and younger.....
13:34<twb>CutMeOwnThroat: I was thinking fetter-er+ora
13:34<fxiny>i don't hate ubu nor ubu developpers but i do hate this obsessive media bombardment
13:34<Trashynovel>twb: debian
13:34<twb>Trashynovel: I mean, is it /home or /usr or what?
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13:35<Trashynovel>I have two ext3 partitions, one for debian etch, one for ubunntu
13:35<Trashynovel>for everything
13:35<CutMeOwnThroat>twb, I think fetus as a word-stem is closer... fetus-us+ora
13:35<CutMeOwnThroat>you wouldnt remove one t
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13:35<twb>I might
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13:37<Trashynovel>twb: its for everything
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13:37<twb>Trashynovel: well, places to check would be /var/log and /home
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13:38<Ten>I hate lectures by ubuntu users on why Free software doesn't matter/is shit.
13:38<Trashynovel>free software rocks
13:38<Ten>Indeed it does.
13:38<Trashynovel>in fact, its better than other software on principle :P
13:39<witte>deb_usr: which debian are you using again?
13:39<deb_usr>the last one
13:39<deb_usr>debian 4
13:40<witte>ok, debian stable (etch)
13:40<fxiny>anyone can have opinions but somehow they are taken too much space : i see no posts but arrogant commencials
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13:44<witte>deb_usr: it looks like a bios thing of your ati driver, which version do you have installed?
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13:44<witte>deb_usr: you can check this with "dpkg -l | grep xserver-xorg-video-ati
13:45<deb_usr>ii xserver-xorg-video-ati 6.6.3-2 X.Org X server -- ATI display driver
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13:47<witte>deb_usr: sorry can't help. if you ask your question again in some time when others are here, maybe they can help
13:48<deb_usr>thank you witte
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13:53<fxiny>CutMeOwnThroat: is not from fetus is from the latin fetore
13:54<fxiny>because Fedora is not a hat but a nice female name
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13:54<eddie>I cant find an actual definition/explanation of etch/sarge... could someone explain what they actually mean and what differes in them?
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13:55<fxiny>eddie: progress ?
13:55<repenti>hi ! I'm searching a clue tu enable direct rendering with my ATI X1100 (with open driver)
13:55|-|rdg [] has joined #debian
13:55<eddie>fxiny: are they different releases? Ie: stable/non-stable/testing
13:56<fxiny>eddie: they are both stable releases : old and new
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13:56<eddie>fxiny: oh right :p, why don they just use old and new then haha
13:56<takt>does anybody has got experience using Network Block Devices?
13:57|-|Celelibi [celelibi@2001:688:c33::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:57<Waddledee>eddie: because there are even older ones than etch.
13:57<eddie>oh right
13:57<fxiny>eddie: because someone love toy story . i do .
13:57<fxiny>eddie: so don't ask why sid :)
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13:58<eddie>fxiny: I just noticed the corolation between the names and toy story LOL
13:58|-|E0x [] has joined #debian
13:58<fxiny>eddie: in this world of criminals having a sweet innocent dream is ok
13:59<eddie>I just started using debian.... its pretty sweet
14:00<fxiny>eddie: welcome to the brightest side of the swirl :)
14:00<repenti>so do i.. eddie
14:00<eddie>Who uses KDE with debian here?
14:00<repenti>but I 'm trying gnome... it seems a bit faster
14:01<eddie>Yeah im a gnome guy, but never really liked KDE ( its too shiney )
14:02<repenti>When I saw a linux .. ten years ago, I loved the gnome's dark theme...
14:02<eddie>ten years... ive only been using linux about 2
14:02<eddie>on and off /
14:02<repenti>that's whas my first try
14:03<repenti>I use it realy since 3 month
14:03<eddie>oh right
14:03|-|brandom_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:03<repenti>.... i used.. something with a W in its name
14:03<eddie>I think ill install kde desktop and look for a dull theme :p
14:03|-|brandom [~repp@] has joined #debian
14:03<repenti>that's why i'm a "repenti" in french
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14:04<repenti>and that's why i'm here :) i need a xorg guru :p
14:05<alex_>eddie: just scrolling back through chat, and - etch is the new stable - relased a few months ago - version 4 - and sarge is version 3.1
14:05<alex_>eddie: lenny is the next release candidate
14:05<eddie>alex_: yep got that now :) but cheers
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14:11<twb>repenti: what driver are you using currently?
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14:12<repenti>my driver is radeon (the free one)
14:12<twb>Radeon probably doesn't support 3d acceleration on a card that new
14:12<twb>Try the r300 driver.
14:13<repenti>I found that my X1100 is a chip near of X200 or X300
14:13<twb>From the radeon manpage: RV370 Radeon X300, M22 (2d only)
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14:14<repenti>sorry, I said X1100 .. but it is Xpress 1100.. maybe useful..
14:15<twb>I repeat, try the r300 driver. The radeon driver probably does not support 3d acceleration on your card.
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14:15<repenti>ok. I know this will work: I tried 2h ago
14:16<repenti>but how to find XGL
14:17<twb>I believe XGL is not support on Debian, because Xorg has endorsed the alternative technology, AIGLX.
14:17|-|brandom [] has joined #debian
14:17<repenti>well you answered an other question ! great !
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14:20<hazard3>how would I go about scanning the system's IDE controllers for drives that weren't detected (somehow) after startup?
14:20<repenti>i suppose AIGLX is something like a software layer between a window manager and the driver ?
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14:20<Trashynovel>problem fixed
14:20<Trashynovel>I copied some stuff to hdb1 because I forgot to mount sda1
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14:26<repenti>thanks a lot ! I will try official drivers. and come bask tomorrow :)
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14:36<twb>repenti: AIGLX allows an application to directly send rendering instructions to the GPU hardware, rather than via X drawing instructions. This makes it MUCH faster.
14:36<twb>DRI does the same, but requires the GPU and the application to be running on the same machine.
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14:39<twb>repenti: that article describes both the differences between AIGLX and XGL, and the probability of getting AIGLX working on your card (slim).
14:40<bighornram>dvdrip says I don't have xine but I apt-get totem-xine and says is newest package. is there another package?
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14:40<witte>bighornram: there is xine-ui
14:40<twb>totem-xine is merely the glue between totem and xine. You presumably need the xine application as well.
14:40<witte>bighornram; apt-cache search xine tells you more
14:41<witte>bighornram; you need the repositories though
14:41<witte>!tell bighornram about debian-multimedia
14:44<repenti>wow.. twb this means that you may render remotely any 3D effect produced by the X server ??
14:44<twb>The X server does not provide effects.
14:45<repenti>i'm wrong...
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14:45<twb>It means that you could, for example, install quake on a central server and play it on a diskless thin client.
14:45<lupine>Remote X is slow enough as it is ;)
14:45<twb>lupine: indeed.
14:45<repenti>I tried NX... lupine thats awesome
14:45<lupine>Although, one wonders how compositing et al would cope over something like NX
14:46<petemc>ive watched videos over nx
14:46<lupine>pity it's not arch-safe
14:46<twb>Free or bust
14:46<repenti>I tried NX, with my server @ home and my laptop @ work
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14:47<lupine>as in, it doesn't like 64 bit architectures
14:47|-|brandom [] has joined #debian
14:47<lupine>in this day and age, it's stupid
14:47<repenti>I don't know.. I used a P4 socket 478 and a P3
14:47<lupine>all of which are 32 bit
14:48<lupine>try running the server under amd64 or ia64, and it'll choke
14:48<twb>lupine: were you running a build of the server specifically intended for 64-bit systems?
14:48<lupine>there isn't one
14:49|-|mode/#debian [+l 307] by debhelper
14:49<lupine>it doesn't build on 64 bit architectures
14:49<repenti>I read something ... i don't remember exactly... something like a chroot to use 3bit software under a 64bit architecture
14:49<repenti>3bit (sorry)
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14:49<repenti>32 bits (...)
14:50<lupine>yeah, but when you want to interface with your X server at home, which is 64-bit, it doesn't work too well
14:50<twb>repenti: that only works on biarch systems anyway
14:51<lupine>and of course, since NX is at least partly proprietary, it's a PITA to fix
14:51<twb>Freedom or bust
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14:52<repenti>:) I will learn this later... I have nearly anything to learn about linux. I'm a new user
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14:54<repenti>I'm leaving because I have to install ati drivers. I'll be back soon
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14:54<takt>does anybody has experience with Network Bock Devices?
14:54<takt>I've got the following problem:
14:55<takt>on my server I'm running nbd-server 6666 /dev/sda3
14:55|-|brandom [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:55<takt>and on my client: nbd-client <ip> 6666 /dev/nbd0
14:56<takt>and all I see is: Negotiaton:
14:56<takt>and I'm waiting for an our now
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14:57<takt>the server is a fresh etch install in a vmware
14:58<takt>nothing installed except nbd-server
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15:02<twb>takt: and the client?
15:03<takt>is another vmware box, with no iptables script
15:03<takt>it's a relatively fresh etch install too
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15:03<twb>Can the "vmware" boxes see each other?
15:04<takt>yes, ping works fine
15:04<repenti>I'm back
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15:05<twb>repenti: I would never have guessed.
15:05<repenti>I'm using 3 vmware boxes to learn. they use network like real boxes
15:05<repenti>I tried nfsv4, ldap authentication,....
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15:06<takt>didn't work either?
15:07<repenti>it works
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16:22<theimrot>hello, i search the command under bash, where can replace text-strings in files rekursive
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16:22<ifvoid>sed -i
16:23<skrewz>theimrot: Use some expression in `find -exec sed -i 'someexpression' \{\} \;`.
16:23<skrewz>Ouh. Add a -e somewhere.
16:24<theimrot>skrewz: it exist an easier command under bash
16:24<theimrot>but i don't know the command
16:24<skrewz>theimrot: I doubt it, but prove me wrong.
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16:31<repenti>well I cannot find anything to enable "composite" option in xorg.conf while I use official ati driver
16:31<ifvoid>is that even supported?
16:32<repenti>when I activate option "composite (in section "extensions") Xorg cannot start
16:32<repenti>I found the same issue from an other guy
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16:33<tV2>I forget typed /j ;p
16:33<ewanm89_laptop>repenti: You shouldn't use it, but use Xgl with an opengl compositer instead.
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16:36<repenti>Xgl is a software layer for the window maker, am i right ?
16:36<tV2>something like that ;)
16:36<ewanm89_laptop>No, window maker can't be used with opengl compositing.
16:36<ewanm89_laptop>To bed, go must I.
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16:39<ifvoid>yes yado
16:39<ifvoid>off to bed with you! ;)
16:39<repenti>well I'm confusing window maker and a window manager
16:40<lupine>TBH, compositing WMs are a bit more trouble than they're worth right now
16:42<tsai>I installed firefox 1.5 to have flash working and the firefox browser says Sever not found. Anybody know what I should do to get it connected to the internet?
16:43<repenti>I cannot use open driver with my Xpress 1100. hardware acceleration is not supported.
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16:44<witte>tsia: i do not see the connection between firefox and flash, or how that should skrew your internet
16:44<witte>tsia: does iceweasel work?
16:44<repenti>wow.. i'm confusing... me too, I must go to bed :)
16:44<repenti>bye !
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16:45<tsai>well im on 64bit and installed 32bit because flash ...
16:45<tsai>does not work well in 64bit without a lot of configuring
16:45<witte>tsai: ok
16:46<tsai>64bit iceweasel worked fine, but no flash
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16:47<tsai>witte: like you can't use sites like
16:47<witte>tsai, yes, i know, but i am thinking on why firfox would not work
16:47<witte>tsai; in your 32bit environment, can you ping google?.
16:48<tsai>witte: I have IE installed thru wine, but I don't like IE. no goolgle doesn't work either.
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16:49<tsai>seems like it should be something very simple. I have done this before under Ubuntu's 64bit but forget what I did
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16:53<tsai>witte: Thanks, I'm checking it out now. I'll be back in sec
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17:01<theimrot>skrewz: but, if the text-string has an /, what i can do
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17:16<twb>07:23 <skrewz> theimrot: Use some expression in `find -exec sed -i 'someexpression' \{\} \;`.
17:16<twb>Make that: find -name \*.txt -exec sed -s -i -e 's/algebra/titties/g' {} +
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17:17<twb>If you wanted to replace something with a / in it,
17:17<vander>twb: you are good with regular expression and text streaming transform
17:17<twb>Make that: find -name \*.txt -exec sed -s -i -e 's|/home/algebra|/home/titties|g' {} +
17:17<theimrot>twb: i want replace ~Theimrot
17:17<theimrot>twb: i want replace ~theimrot/homepage with theimrot
17:17<twb>You may wish to apply to #sed on Freenode for further hints.
17:18<vander>twb: did you like awk?
17:18<twb>I generally don't bother with awk
17:18<theimrot>twb it exist one command under bash where you do this:
17:19<theimrot>command 'textstring1' 'textstring2' *.shtml
17:19<twb>theimrot: why not use that, then?
17:19<theimrot>twb: i don't know the name
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17:19<twb>Well, nor do I.
17:19<skrewz>Nor do I. :)
17:20<twb>I fail to see why you don't follow the advice you've been given.
17:21<theimrot>twb: yes i want to do your advice before
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17:22<twb>A likely story.
17:22<vander>sorry for uppercase
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17:22<aespinoza>nah no prob :D
17:22<twb>vander: IT IS OKAY STOP I AM USED TO IT STOP
17:24<weasel>ewww. -exec.
17:25<twb>exec beats xargs
17:25<vander>twb: well, you are a shell master
17:25<twb>Note the use of + instead of \;
17:25<weasel>still. ewww.
17:25<twb>weasel: why?
17:25|-|varka [] has quit [Quit: took the red pill...]
17:26<twb>It correctly handles Icon\r files, for example.
17:26<tcsetattr>exec ... + is basically a built-in xargs recently added to find
17:27<ifvoid>it has been there for 10 years at least
17:27<ifvoid>the +
17:27<ifvoid>missed that, sorry
17:27<weasel>not in sarge, is it?
17:27<twb>Probably that is correct.
17:28<weasel>creeping featurism
17:28<twb>I don't feel the need to pander to oldstable's decrepitude
17:28<twb>If you consider handling edge cases correctly reprehensible.
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17:29<twb>Not that Unix was ever built with edge cases in mind :-/
17:29<tcsetattr>oldstable? that's a narrow view of things. how many non-Debian (non-GNU, non-Linux) operating systems have yet to add the -exec + ?
17:29<twb>tcsetattr: they can FOAD
17:30<twb>I don't maintain anything by .profile to handle Solaris' POSIX-incompatible /bin/sh, either.
17:30<theimrot>twb: thank you, i have soluted
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17:33<SixF9>that my local radio station streams via realplayer is such a pain
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17:38<twb>SixF9: I've come to terms with it using mplayer
17:38<twb>It's a PITA to not be able to chop off the stupid backannouncing from BBC7's Goon Show broadcasts, though :-/
17:38<SixF9>twb: mplayer can catch these realplayer streams?
17:39<twb>mplayer -quiet $(curl | grep -o mms://[a-z0-9./]\\+ | head -1) $(curl | grep -o mms://[a-z0-9./]\\+ | head -1) $(curl | sed -e 's/\r//g' | head -1)
17:39<twb>That's what I'm running right ow.
17:39<twb>The head -1 is a cop-out to choose one of the alternative URLs
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17:40<SixF9>sweet little magic :)
17:40<twb>It's also the case that it requires less overhead than MP3, which is of course also (possibly) patent-encumbered.
17:40<twb>I don't really expect volunteer-run, subscriber-sponsored radio stations to know about Vorbis.
17:41<SixF9>good point, yes
17:41<SixF9>they target windows users in the first point with their formats
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17:42<twb>I noticed just now that RRR at least admit the existence of Linux now, and link to mplayer
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17:42<SixF9>the BBC noticed them also. but they refuse to support them. maybe mac. but linux, ... no.
17:42<twb>Yeh well
17:42<lupine>they're a-working on it
17:43<twb>The BBC are at least working on a Free codec
17:43<abussuhail>hi, how can I setup cups in debian etch?
17:43<twb>abussuhail: aptitude install cups?
17:43<SixF9>twb: a free codec that supports their DRM? :)
17:43<twb>SixF9: what DRM?
17:43<lupine>s/he's talking about the iPlayer, I suspect
17:43<twb>I've never heard of it
17:44<lupine>lets you watch BBC tv over the internet
17:44<twb>I don't watch television
17:44<lupine>currently usable on XP only
17:44<lupine>heh. Me neither
17:44<SixF9>i love some of the BBC documentary movies
17:44<SixF9>this is good stuff
17:44<lupine>well. I watch some TV, but never on the TV
17:44<twb>It reminds me of the "feelies" in BNW
17:44<lupine>Dr Who ftw
17:45<twb>I enjoyed the Dr. Who books when I was young, but I've entirely lost interest
17:45<SixF9>ok, this tv series stuff you can get as hdtv snap
17:45<twb>The new seasons seem to have 100% bimbo companions instead of the earlier like 75%
17:45<SixF9>but i am mainly interested in educational movies
17:45<SixF9>you hardly get them via torrent
17:45<lupine>I'd hardly call catherine tate bimbo
17:45<tcsetattr>you know twb, mplayer can handle most of those asx/ram files with the -playlist option. You don't need to parse them yourself :)
17:46<twb>dr who kisses companion = bimbo
17:46<twb>tcsetattr: ooh
17:46<lupine>thst was a genetic transfer! ;)
17:46<twb>lupine: no, it was a cheap plot device
17:46<lupine>not as cheap as the sonic, though ;)
17:47<lupine>that gets used for everything these days
17:49<twb>tcsetattr: awesome, thanks
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17:49<SixF9>twb: interesting. but do you know if they still care about it?
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17:52<lupine>much ado about nothing, TBH
17:54<SixF9>lupine: i think the main noise is about the content we non UK license owners want to watch :)
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17:56<twb>Hey, I could be in the UK for all you know
17:56<twb>I listen to stuff I can get on my wireless via mplayer because the reception is better ;-)
17:57<SixF9>heh :)
17:57<lupine>geolocation disagrees :p
17:57<tupa>which file starts X when booting the PC?
17:57<SixF9>the aussies smuggle the signal!
17:57<lupine>if you really want to be british, we can annex you?
17:57<lupine>tupa: /etc/rc2.d/?dm
17:58<lupine>erm, ????dm, rather
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17:58<SixF9>gdm or kdm
17:58<twb>The default runlevel is 5, I believe.
17:58<SixF9>mine is 2
17:59<twb>Hmm, so it is.
17:59<lupine>change it to K???dm and X wion't start
17:59<lupine>5 is on Red Hat-style systems, IIRC
17:59<twb>On Debian I neevr bothered to look, because 2 through 5 are identicl by default
18:00<twb>Gah, stupid lag.
18:00<twb>Lemme switch to a nearer host.
18:00|-|Diego [] has joined #debian
18:00<SixF9>no, please dont modify the symlinks. use update-rc.d please
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18:00<lupine>what's the difference?
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18:01<Diego>Good Night for all peoples! :)
18:01<SixF9>it makes sure you fiddle the right things
18:01<Diego>I have question, can help-me?
18:01<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For Example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
18:01<SixF9>Diego: maybe. whats up?
18:01<twb>That's better, I don't get latency between the tty and the keyboard.
18:02<Diego>Whats is the arquive of configuration of X-Window-System?
18:02<vander>wauuu... with !ask activate dpkg?
18:02<SixF9>vander: you can /query the bot and throw certain keywords at it
18:02<twb>Diego: you mean /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
18:03<Diego>Or no, I not use xorg.
18:03<lupine>SixF9: look inside that script
18:03<SixF9>lupine: in what script and why?
18:03<lupine>all it does it parse /etc/init.d/* in relation to the actions you tell it to do
18:03<tupa>lupine there's S13gdm, so if I want X not starting at boot up, do I have to rename it or what do I have to do?
18:03<Diego>Oh, i found.
18:03<SixF9>lupine: your point?
18:03<tupa>lupine, I'm using it just as a server
18:03<twb>On an Ubuntu host, can I make bts(1) talk to Debian's BTS?
18:04<lupine>and remove and add symlinks as needed, of course
18:04<lupine>point is, there's no reason not to update the symlinks yourself
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18:04<lupine>tupa: you can delete it, or rename it to K19gdm
18:04<vander>SixF9: Thanks brother
18:04<lupine>or use update-rc.d if you really want to
18:04<lupine>yay, perl
18:04<SixF9>lupine: if you think it makes sense to tell people to change files they know nothing about, then go ahead and be here to help when they messed something up
18:05<lupine>and of course, everyone understands perl
18:05<ricky>Yay Perl!
18:05<twb>lupine: that is such a bullshit line
18:05<twb>Just because Python uses it doesn't mean it's OK
18:05<lupine>you're definitely not british; you can't spot sarcasm ;)
18:06[~]SixF9 directs signs of elitism directly to /dev/null
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18:06<twb>Well, if I knew you weren't an idiot I might have had a chance
18:06<vander>where can i find debian books?
18:06<SixF9>twb: heh
18:06<SixF9>typical aussie :P
18:06<twb>It's hard to tell the difference between idiots and sarcastic gurus over IRC
18:07<lupine>it's a given fact that hardly anyone /really/ understands perl
18:07<SixF9>twb: you have a point there
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18:07<lupine>but it's doing this: symlink("../init.d/$bn", "$etcd$lvl.d/$links[$i]$bn")
18:07<dondelelcaro>vander: depends on what, but _The Debian System_ by Martin Krafft is still one of the better oens
18:07<SixF9>well. the main point why its hard to read perl code of other people is, because you can do things in many many ways
18:08<twb>Is that the one that's obscured behind a wacky CRM thing?
18:08<SixF9>and the point is not to know everything about perl. the point is that your tools do the tricks
18:08<witte>vander: amazon?
18:08<lupine>yep. that script still has no value-add beyond mv for this task, though
18:08<twb>Perl is a seething mass of syntactic decadence.
18:09<lupine>I looked at ruby a bit last night/this morning
18:09<SixF9>vander: or you go by the free manuals on
18:10<lupine>it is officially the tentacle rape of interpreted languages
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18:10<dondelelcaro>the point of update-rc.d is that it abstracts out what is handling runlevels
18:10<dondelelcaro>whether you use it when you configure your own system is up to you
18:10<twb>Can update-rc.d cope with non-sysv setups?
18:10<SixF9>dondelelcaro: thanks for putting in words what i had in mind :)
18:10<lupine>twb: nope
18:10<stew>twb: yes, file-rc provides its own implementation
18:11<twb>OK, good.
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18:11<dondelelcaro>twb: yes.
18:11<lupine>is there a non-sysv setup for debian at the moment? ;)
18:11<dondelelcaro>lupine: yes
18:11<abussuhail>i configured (./configure) properly a printerdriver source file but the compilation (make) gives errors, can someone illustrate the problem pls?
18:11<weasel>that being said, most people get their local use of update-rc.d wrong
18:11<weasel>especially if they want to stop services.
18:11<lupine>ooh. what is it?
18:11<dondelelcaro>lupine: file-rc
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18:12<twb>weasel: I generally tell people to use rcconf
18:12<SixF9>dpkg: system v
18:12|-|ascii [] has joined #debian
18:12<SixF9>dpkg: init
18:12<dpkg>somebody said init was the init daemon
18:12<SixF9>oh come on
18:12<twb>There are also badly-supported alternatives like minit, runit and cinit
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18:13<twb>And upstart, of course.
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18:13<twb>The initscripts-ng group is looking into supporting them fully through smarter setup scripts and policy change
18:13<SixF9>twb: there was a BOF at debconf7 i think
18:13<dondelelcaro>most of that effort is into fixing the init scripts
18:14<dondelelcaro>there's not much wrong with the current update-rc.d abstraction
18:14<Ganneff>twb: discussion
18:14<twb>The existing init scripts are utterly crap.
18:14[~]lupine suspects file-rc is somewhat faster than sysvinit
18:14<dondelelcaro>lupine: not really.
18:14<Ganneff>no, its not
18:14<Ganneff>why should it be?
18:14<dondelelcaro>in fact, it wouldn't surpise me if it was slower
18:14<twb>Ganneff: because it forks /bin/sh about 20 times less ;-)
18:15<Ganneff>dondelelcaro: not, its also not that
18:15<lupine>snap :)
18:15<Ganneff>i use it.
18:15<twb>lupine: there's a SoC student looking into boot speed optimization.
18:15<dondelelcaro>Ganneff: well, not appreciably slower
18:15<Ganneff>you basically dont see a difference in the boot (that you can notice)
18:15<lupine>not that I reboot often
18:15<twb>The biggest speed increase you can get currently is to install dash and symlink /bin/sh to it.
18:15<weasel>just don't reboot.
18:15<twb>That reduces boot time by about 10%
18:15<twb>weasel: yes, obviously.
18:15<twb>weasel: or, suspend to swasp
18:16<dondelelcaro>weasel: yeah, that's pretty much why it's been suboptimal for so long
18:16<Ganneff>it works
18:16<vander>Thanks friends... I asked for books only to test dpkg... anyway Thanks a lot
18:16<dpkg>pas de quoi, vander
18:16<twb>It's impressive to watch an OS like movitz boot, though
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18:17<lupine>suspend to swap would be so much cooler if it were more flexible
18:17<twb>It is fully up in like 4s
18:17<twb>And most of that is spinning up the floppy/cd
18:17<weasel>it's amazing to watch windows XP boot
18:17<amphi>twb: try linuxbios? ;)
18:17<weasel>once the login screen is there it takes 5 more minutes before you can do anything
18:18<dondelelcaro>lupine: what sort of flexibility were you looking for?
18:18<twb>It's more like 2 minutes on a vanilla XP box
18:18<Ganneff>weasel: but it makes users feel good. it booooooots soooooooooooooooooooooooo fast
18:19<SixF9>weasel: depends how many applications you installed. a new Win XP boots faster than the average debian system :P
18:19<lupine>multiple suspend imnages would be good
18:19<Ganneff>twb: vanilla==you cant do a single thing with the box.
18:19<dondelelcaro>lupine: can't be done
18:19<weasel>SixF9: not if you require network for logins.
18:19<SixF9>weasel: true that
18:19<Ganneff>lupine: how to keep your filesystems safe?
18:19<weasel>SixF9: or network shares. all that stuff comes ages after the login screen
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18:19<ricky>SixF9: Yeah, except you have to reboot every few days or so anyway when something breaks.
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18:20<SeanWasHere>it works fine though for the 30 seconds after install
18:20<SixF9>SeanWasHere: heh
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18:20<lupine>my filesystems tend to be quite seperate from each other
18:20<twb>I suggest we stop talking about crap OSes
18:20<twb>They're OT
18:21<SeanWasHere>XP I'm fine with, 98 I hate horribly
18:21<lupine>but there's the potential for serious breakage, I agree
18:21<lupine>SeanWasHere: funny, I was of the opposite opinion
18:21<dondelelcaro>lupine: if they're separate, then you should have separate swaps too, so no problem
18:21<SixF9>twb: okay. are you ... running a box with hurd or bsd kernel?
18:21<lupine>no, same swap
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18:22<twb>Linux sucks, but right now Hurd is too much of a PITA to get going
18:22<SixF9>i even subscribed to the hurd mailing list cause i am curious
18:22<twb>It probably doesn't support Tremulous, either :-(
18:22<SixF9>but there is not much life
18:22<twb>SixF9: there are several posts every week!
18:22<SixF9>yeah, 2 in total!
18:23<twb>Do you mean the Debian GNU list?
18:23<twb> 178: gmane.linux.debian.ports.hurd
18:24<twb>178 posts since Jul 2nd
18:24<blarson>I've got a problem with suspend on one laptop: When I hit fn-f1 (sleep) it suspends. Close then open the lid, it wakes up printing messages then suspends again. Hit the power button, and it wakes up. The second wakup is much faster.
18:24<twb>That's plenty more than two per week.
18:25<blarson>I suspect it's suspending to disk then suspending to ram.
18:25<SixF9>twb: i am sure you count the spam mails in :P
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18:26<twb>Yeah, I'm too lazy to filter them.
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18:30<vander>Talking about suspend... is a safe method to suspend when nvidia (video module) is loaded?
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18:31<vander>I suspend with -f, but have problem when resume... video problem
18:31<Ganneff>depends on your nvidia card and the module version.
18:32<Ganneff>i have one where it works fine and one where i can only use the free module, and also only suspend-to-disk there.
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18:35<vander>Ganneff: yes, my module is not free, downloaded right of nvidia
18:35<Ganneff>use google. there are some hits with nvidia suspend.
18:36<Ganneff>maybe some helps for you
18:36<vander>Ganneff: Thanks
18:36<Ganneff>basically you can play with some nvidia xorg.conf options and some kernel options. and stuff.
18:36<vander>Ganneff: thank you, I will try
18:36<themill>vander: sometimes starting a new x session on vt8 and then closing it straight away is enough to get the video card reset.
18:37<themill>vander: or copying the video card memory to disk separately before suspend. Or just changing vt before suspend.
18:37<themill>vander: the suspend frameworks know about these tricks and can be configured to use them
18:38<Ganneff>themill: and sometimes there are cards where all of this doesnt help. i have one of those in my laptop.
18:39|-|mode/#debian [+l 293] by debhelper
18:39<themill>Ganneff: yeah... there are a few like that out there
18:39<Ganneff>its funny - my desktop can better suspend/resume than my laptop
18:39<themill>vander: this page might help too
18:39<vander>well, time to go away, see you later.
18:39<themill>Ganneff: what's the laptop?
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18:39<themill>Ganneff: (just so I can add it to a blacklist for future purchases :)
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18:40<Ganneff>themill: oh, i guess it will be ok with one of the next xorg, kernel and/or nvidia driver upgrades
18:40<Ganneff>its a pretty new hp one
18:40<Ganneff>getting better with every release of the stuff i run on it.
18:40<themill>Ganneff: ahh.... it took 18 months before I could s2r my old hp. took 6 months before I could s2d.
18:41<themill>Ganneff: it's quite pleasing to see that happen, isn't it
18:41<Ganneff>(it actually does everything i want. just that i cant suspend-to-ram with actually getting back on is something i hate. but suspend-to-disk works
18:41<Ganneff>well. i can suspend-to-ram and get back - with xorg eating 100% cpu :)
18:41<Ganneff>but that only with nvidia non-free driver. nv doesnt manage that.
18:41<Ganneff>funnily - nvidia doesnt manage to suspend-to-disk, which nv does.
18:42<Ganneff>i want a mixture of both!
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18:42<themill>Ganneff: ouch. But a working s2d is enough for most things. It's all I ever use actually. s2r can just be a little unreliable so I just stick with s2d. As I've stuffed more ram in the box s2d keeps getting slower though :(
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18:43<themill>it's a tough life... 2gb of ram just takes sooooo long to write to disk ;)
18:43<Ganneff>how much ram do you have?
18:43<themill>2gb (it's a new toy ;)
18:43<Ganneff>i have 2g and even if i have lots of stuff running the usual amount it writes to disk is only 900MB
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18:44<themill>it depends on what you've got your s2d settings at... you've probably got the 45% of memory set up which just means that the shrinking stage takes longer and the writing stage is shorter.
18:45<themill>In any case, 2gb ram certainly takes longer to s2d than 1gb....
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18:45<themill>anyway... I was going to bed about an hour ago....
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19:00<cire>I have a linux server running samba. Windows machines have problems accessing files larger than 2GB on shares. (on server-side, it's ext2). I know mounting with lfs option in linux works, but is there a way to tell windows?
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19:19<witte>on my laptop, when i install a new kernel, grub always points to /dev/hda instead of /dev/sda
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19:20<witte>how can i change it that it will use /dev/sda the next time
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19:20<witte>the file i am talking about is /boot/grub/menu.lst
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19:28<twb>When preseeding the passwd/root-password-crypted variable, how do I generate the crypted password?
19:28<twb>(From a cleartext password, that is.)
19:29<weasel>mkpasswd -H md5
19:29<weasel>I'd assume
19:29<twb>I'll try that, thanks.
19:29<twb>Looks good
19:29<twb>I wasn't sure if the $1$ was needed
19:29<weasel>it is needed.
19:30<weasel>it means that the rest that follows is an md5 crypted thing.
19:30<mikegrb>vs $w$ for a weasel crypted thing
19:31<twb>I can have as many tabs as I want, except between the datatype and the value, right?
19:32<twb>Between those columns I need exactly one tab.
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19:32<Yoyoma_2>Hey all, i do not know where to ask this question. I am looking for something that woule let me run ethernet as well as a phone line on a single cat5e cable. Sorry for the off-topic, if anyone knows you can msg me. Thanks!
19:33<twb>Yoyoma_2: asterisk? ;-)
19:33<Deselect>Hello, I cannot access one of my HDDs and another I can only get RO access, yet in FSTAB they are setup seemingly correctly. Any takers on assisting me?
19:33<weasel>fast ethernet (100mbit) only requires 4 out of the 8 lines in a cat 5 cable...
19:33<Yoyoma_2>twb: See that's where i don't know a lot.
19:33<weasel>a classic phone line needs 2
19:33<weasel>it's not nice, but if that's what you have...
19:34<Yoyoma_2>weasel: REALLY!!! :) That's great news, i need to figure out how to wire that. Is there cross-talk on the phone when the ethernet is active? Its for a fax machine so 4 pins is preffered.
19:34<twb>Deselect: does dmesg report psycho freakouts?
19:34<Deselect>Er, what is Dmesg?
19:34<twb>dmesg is a program.
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19:35<weasel>Yoyoma_2: at home - just don't tell anybody - I have only a single cat5 cable between two 2-port rj45 sockets
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19:35<weasel>Yoyoma_2: and network still works fine. just make sure to use the correct lines, and it will probably work out
19:36<Yoyoma_2>weasel: hehe so which pairs are required for 100mb?
19:36<weasel>check the internet
19:36<Deselect>twb: So, how can I check if accessing the drives causes any issues?
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19:36<Yoyoma_2>weasel: ok i will check it out, thanks. Cheers!
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19:36<Deselect>The HDDs were working just fine with a previous user account
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19:38<twb>Deselect: what precisely are the symptoms?
19:38[~]sward would have just put two runs of cable in sleeving/wrap/trunking
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19:39<Deselect>twb: 1 HDD, sda1, is an NTFS HDD, I cannot access or see it at all, despite it being mounted and listed in the fstab. The other, hdb1 is an ext3 drive, I can see it and the files, but I cannot write, edit or delete... Basically, the access seems to be only RO
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19:42<twb>Deselect: is sda1 listed in /proc/mounts?
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19:43<Deselect>I have not searched /proc/mounts. What is it? I will check now
19:43<twb>Deselect: specifically, what does the following command print? grep sda1 /proc/mounts
19:43<Deselect>/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=0,gid=0,fmask=0177,dmask=077,nls=iso8859-1,errors=continue,mft_zone_multiplier=1 0 0
19:43<Deselect>It says a lot more than it does in ftsba.
19:44<Deselect>FSTAB. Why is that?
19:44<twb>Because fstab does not include default values.
19:44<Deselect>twb: Thanks for the info.
19:44<twb>As root, run the command "touch /mnt/sda1/x". Does it report an error?
19:45<Deselect>twb: touch: cannot touch `/mnt/sda1/x': Read-only file system
19:45<Deselect>as root
19:45<twb>Oh, sorry.
19:45<twb>OK, so sda1 is mounted.
19:45<Deselect>Yes, it is
19:46<twb>It is mounted such that it is read-only, and all files are owned by the root user (uid 0) and the file and directory masks are set such that all files and directories are only accesible by the owner.
19:46<twb>It is for this reason you cannot see files therein as a regular user.
19:46<Deselect>twb: And how can I go about changing that?
19:46<twb>Provide different values in fstab, and then remount it.
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19:47<Deselect>FSTAB doesn't have those values... But maybe I need to remount.
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19:48<twb>What does grep sda1 /etc/fstab report?
19:48<Deselect>/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs ro,user,auto 0 2
19:49<Deselect>I changed that
19:49<Deselect>to defaults
19:49<Deselect>That should be a safe setting, yes?
19:51<Deselect>twb: /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs defaults 0 2
19:51<Deselect>Still doesn't show, though.
19:52<Deselect>twb: Let me clarify, this is the HDD that is not showing up at all, not the one that is showing but is only RO
19:52<tcsetattr>being readable only by root *is* the safe setting. safe as in: not leaking private information to other users.
19:53<skrewz>Deselect: You could provide your uid, and a umask in options. Like ``uid=1000,umask=077''.
19:53<Deselect>skrewz: How do I discover such info about my current user?
19:53<skrewz>Deselect: Use id: `id skrewz` for instance.
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19:55<Deselect>skrewz: That gives me uid, gid and groups, but not umask
19:55<skrewz>No, the umask is the mask of rights not present. Using 077 gives you-and-only-you full access.
19:56<Deselect>skrewz: Ah, right. Sorry.
19:56<skrewz>With some twirks. (All files become executable).
19:56<Deselect>So, simply choosing Defaults in my case is not good enough?
19:57<twb>auto should be the default anyway
19:57<skrewz>Use these options instead: ``user,noauto,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=137,dmask=027''. That handles the quirk, makes non-root users able to do the `mount` call and removes the x-bit from non-directories.
19:57<twb>Also, be careful with trying to use ntfs in a read-write manner; I'm not sure if it works atm.
19:57<Deselect>twb: right now the NTFS drive is only RO library of old files
19:57<skrewz>twb: I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
19:57<twb>Leave it ro, then.
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20:00<Deselect>So how does: /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs ro,user,noauto,uid=1002,gid=1002,fmask=137,dmask=027 0 2 seem?
20:00<twb>I have two problems with the default sources.list: 1) it includes the CDROM by default; and 2) it uses the install-time apt repository (which only works at the install site, not at the deploy site). Where can I change these in preseed.cfg?
20:01<Deselect>sorry, replace noauto with auto
20:01<skrewz>Deselect: As far as I can tell, the pass=2 will not give you anything. Go for pass=0 and let Windows handle it's own fs-consistency.
20:01<skrewz>Deselect: Otherwise, fine.
20:02<Deselect>So, I umount and them mount and I still cannot see it
20:03<twb>Yes, set pass to 0
20:03<tcsetattr>how does one resume an interrupted svn checkout?
20:03<twb>tcsetattr: update
20:03<twb>tcsetattr: IIUC
20:03<Deselect>Pass is 0
20:03<Deselect>/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs ro,user,auto,uid=1002,gid=1002,fmask=137,dmask=027 0 0
20:03<skrewz>Deselect: Please eloborate, how you'd want to ``see'', then?
20:04<Deselect>The other HDDs show up in COMPUTER or on the DESKTOP
20:04<twb>Deselect: you are using X?
20:04<skrewz>In GNOME or something the like?
20:04<Deselect>Yes, Gnome.
20:04<twb>You probably need to whitelist it in pmount's whizzy thingamajig
20:05<twb>And make sure you're in the appropriate groups
20:05<skrewz>Geez. Well. Point GNOME towards /mnt/sda1, then. Perhaps you're lucky. :)
20:05<Deselect>I did a apt-cache search for pmount whizzy thingamajig and found no results
20:05<twb>skrewz: sure, that'll work
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20:06<twb>Deselect: whizzy is a qualifier. Thingamajig is a metasyntactic variable.
20:06<skrewz>twb: Yeah... But... The taste in my mouth gets somewhat worse.
20:06<Deselect>I couldn't go to /mnt/sda1, permissions denied
20:06<skrewz>Deselect: Grab your handy console application. Try to cd to /mnt/sda1.
20:07<Deselect>Same thing, my friend. Permission denied.
20:07<skrewz>It's getting weird.
20:07<Deselect>Everything I have had to do in Linux has been like this... From issues with gfx card and drives, to xorg to compiz, etc etc
20:08<skrewz>Oh. Perhaps your user hasn't got access to /mnt at all. Try `ls -l /` and check whether you have permissions for /mnt.
20:08<twb>Deselect: because you're ignorant.
20:08<skrewz>Deselect: Did you do that in Linux?
20:08<Deselect>twb: That was rather out of line, no?
20:08<twb>Deselect: however, you are also picking hard things to configure.
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20:09<Deselect>skrewz: MNT is listed in the result set
20:09<skrewz>Deselect: I didn't get that.
20:09<Deselect>twb: I don't think I am ignorant. I managed to get this all working with a different user.
20:09<tcsetattr>svn update gives me a complaint about a file "object of the same name already exists". If I remove that one and update again, it gets that file and complains about the next
20:09<skrewz>Deselect: You mean, it figures in the listing?
20:10<Deselect>skrewz: I just said that I saw MNT listed in the resulsts from that command
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20:11<skrewz>Deselect: Right. And the same for /mnt/sda1?
20:11<twb>tcsetattr: you don't give a URL to update
20:11<Deselect>skrewz: no, SDA1 has drwx------
20:12<twb>tcsetattr: svn update co-dir/, after svn co url [co-dir]
20:12<tcsetattr>I didn't, twb
20:12<tcsetattr>oh, I did "cd co-dir;svn update"
20:12<twb>That also should work
20:12<Deselect>also, interestingly, it lists hdb1, the drive that is only ro to me as owning to another user
20:12<twb>Try #svn on Freenode
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20:13<Deselect>Well, I don't seem to be getting anywhere with this at the moment. I will keep trying later. Can you suggest a way to switch all the files and rights for the HDB1 drive from my old user account to my new one?
20:13<skrewz>Deselect: I'm puzzled. You have permissions to the directory, and you can't cd to it. Also, the permisions of the mount are in effect, proving that some mounting has occured.
20:13<Deselect>skrewz: Bingo.
20:14<skrewz>Deselect: Does `dmesg` output something interesting?
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20:14<Deselect>skrewz: uh, it all looks like Greek to me.
20:15<skrewz>Deselect: hdb1, what file system is on that?
20:15<skrewz>Deselect: No NTFS complaining?
20:16<skrewz>Then -- assuming that your user is ``deselect'', do `chown -R deselect:deselect /mnt/sda1`. It'll take some time.
20:16<Deselect>skrewz: My old user was Deselect, yes
20:17<skrewz>Anyway. Put your new username into that command.
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20:18<Deselect>So, "chown -R akiva deselect /mnt/sda1" where akiva is my new user and deselect is my old?
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20:18<Deselect>oh, and hdb1, not sda1
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20:19<skrewz>Deselect: No. There's a colon, too. But moreover, you're changing *to* user:group. I'm just assuming that there exists a group by the same name as your new username -- it's default behaviour.
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20:19<Deselect>Thanks, that did it
20:20<Deselect>It's flying through a lot of lines
20:20<Deselect>It looks like they all came back with operation not permitted. Let me ensure it was done as sudo
20:20<skrewz>Deselect: It shouldn't. What does it say?
20:21<skrewz>Do anybody -- Ubuntu users excepted -- like sudo?
20:21<Deselect>skrewz: Excellent! Thanks. One HDD issue now fixed. Now for that other crazy one
20:21<Deselect>skrewz: Sudo is nice as it prevents me from having to switch users
20:21<Deselect>I use native debian, not Ubuntu
20:22<tcsetattr>I like sudo as a way of delegating specific administrative functions to staff who aren't to be trusted with root powers. I hate the way it's misused as a substitute for su by what seems to be the vast majority of people who use it though.
20:22<skrewz>Deselect: But you still have to enter passwords. And you'll keep forgetting which commands need to be prefixed with sudo. And you'll experience quoting problems...
20:22<skrewz>Let's just say that I'm no fan.
20:22[~]Xenguy wonders if any lenny users have managed to solve the recent nvidia issues...
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20:23<Deselect>skrewz: I don't forget which need what, at least not with the level that I am at now. Maybe when I am more of a "power user"
20:23<tcsetattr>any machine that has only one person acting as its administrator should NOT have sudo installed.
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20:23<skrewz>tcsetattr: Sounds reasonable. Otherwise one would have to do some fine-grained suid-scripts, oneself.
20:24<Deselect>Okay, well, with this problem at least resolved, I am now happy. I will have to come back to this odd sda1 hdd issue.
20:24<skrewz>Deselect: Anyway. `grep sda1 /proc/mounts`.
20:24<tcsetattr>yeah, it's like a safe script setuid thing. I don't see it as useful in any context where it prompts for a apassword though, always set the NOPASSWD flag
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20:24<Deselect>/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs rw,uid=0,gid=0,fmask=0177,dmask=077,nls=iso8859-1,errors=continue,mft_zone_multiplier=1 0 0
20:25<skrewz>tcsetattr: But I guess that makes it just as easy to cut yourself as with suid scripts.
20:25<Deselect>skrewz: I wonder why it has it as that still?
20:25<skrewz>tcsetattr: I haven't been faced with that, yet, though. But point taken, regarding administrative tasks.
20:26<tcsetattr>the alternative is making a setuid C program... which can also be dnagerous when done wrong
20:26<skrewz>Deselect: That's why I asked. The uid and gid is wrong, at least. Sure you actually umounted?
20:27<skrewz>tcsetattr: You could do with a suid #!/bin/bash-program, IIRC.
20:27<Deselect>skrewz: Postive
20:28<tcsetattr>the kernel doesn't do setuid on scripts. which is why there used to be a suidperl helper
20:28<Deselect>Lookng at FSTAB again: /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs ro,user,auto,uid=1002,gid=1002,fmask=137,dmask=027 0 0
20:28<Deselect>It is now umounted, anything I should edit?
20:29<tcsetattr>anyway, a couple of years ago, before I ever heard of "Ubuntu", I thought sudo was an awesome tool. Since the plague of Ubuntu-inspired misuse of it, I'm liking it a lot less.
20:29<skrewz>Deselect: Well, no. Try to do the mount as your own user?
20:29<skrewz>tcsetattr: Hear! :)
20:31<Deselect>mount: only root can do that
20:31<Deselect>I was doing it as root before
20:31<skrewz>Deselect: Right. But the ``user'' option should allow non-root users to do that. I can't tell what goes wrong, though.
20:32<skrewz>Deselect: Frustratingly, it also ought to work even though you do the mount as root.
20:32<skrewz>Deselect: So I'm leaving you where you stand. I can't figure it out.
20:33<Deselect>skrewz: Thank you many times over for all the help
20:34<skrewz>tcsetattr: By the way, thanks for educating me regarding suid scripts.
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20:40<Brudus>Is there any way to get it to scroll more lines at a time with the scroll wheel on my mouse. I tried the mouse contril panel in Gnome Control Center, but nothing was that that could help me.
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20:53<ketone>ls 0l
20:53<ketone>not only do i mistype, i mistype in the wrong screen. :-)
20:53<roldyx>hello i ve problems with flash over iceweasel
20:53<roldyx>iceweasel frezee
20:54<roldyx>is it normal??
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20:54<dondelelcaro>if you're using the nonfree flash plugin, it's not unusual
20:55<roldyx>dondelelcaro: well.. tell me how to repair these problem?
20:56<roldyx>are there free flash plugin?
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21:02<Brudus>Does anyone have any information on my mouse issue?
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21:10<skrewz>Brudus: It's seemingly a Gnome issue. Perhaps they've got an irc channel.
21:11<janrocks>Brudus: have you looked in your xorg.conf file to see is there are any different mouse protocols you can use?
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21:11<Brudus>where can i find my xorg.conf file janrocks
21:13<Brudus>I found it.
21:13<Brudus>what do i need to look for to change this.
21:14<janrocks>not sure.. i'm happy with one line per click
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21:14<Brudus>if your browsing big webpages your finger gets tired quick
21:15<stew>Brudus: go to about:config filter by scroll
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21:16<stew>Brudus: or mousewheel iirc
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21:27<Brudus>Thanks for the help stew. I got it to how I want it.
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21:30<janrocks>yup.. thatks stew.. noted for future
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21:32<Axk>Hello! I'm thinking to use the deb edgy main repository. Someone knows if I can trust in it?
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21:35<abrotman>Axk: edgy isn't debian
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21:36<Axk>yes, I know. But there is unofficial debian packages there too
21:36|-|shplatipus [] has quit []
21:37<Axk>but, If you can't answer my question, please don't bug my brain
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21:37<Apt_Quadruped>hi guys, i'm trying to compile "wine" in debian lenny amd64 and i keep on getting this error: "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables"
21:38<Apt_Quadruped>any ideas?
21:38<Apt_Quadruped>i installed all of wine's recommended packages and it still doesn't work
21:38<abrotman>Axk: trust them for what?
21:39<abrotman>to not break or trust the packager
21:39<Axk>abrotman, their binary files.. is it free of virus or bad thinks like it?
21:40<ricky>Apt_Quadruped: And you have gcc?
21:40<abrotman>Axk: one would assume so .. you'd probably have to ask #winehq on freenode .. Debian can't vouch for third party repositories
21:40<ricky>Why not use the wine in Debian?
21:41<Axk>thank you
21:41<Apt_Quadruped>@abrotman: i went there and they told me to go here >.<
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21:41<abrotman>Apt_Quadruped: ?
21:41<abrotman>Apt_Quadruped: your question differs from Axk's
21:41<gsimmons_>Apt_Quadruped: You'd want to see <> regarding required packages and symlink creation.
21:41<ricky>Apt_Quadruped: That was probably directed at Axk.
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21:48<scubasteve>could someone help me plz
21:51<scubasteve>i installed knoppix to the hard drive and when i reboot i get the command lin grub
21:51<scubasteve>not sure what to do from their
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21:53<ricky>Knoppix isn't Debian.
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21:53<ricky>Perhaps you'd have more luck in a Knoppix channel?
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21:54<twb>ricky: they're empty :-)
21:55[~]ricky cackles quietly.
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22:01<tupa>how can I know which network interfaces are available?
22:01<tupa>tV2, not if they are down -_-
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22:02<tcsetattr>ifconfig -a
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22:12<sigp239>What is the name of the app that can convert an RPM into a Debian package?
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22:24<marcos>hi guys
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22:27<dpkg>i guess backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and ABI complications. or or or ask me about <simple sid backport> Beware that if you add to your sources.list, you will get *all* backports when you upgrade. Read the instructions on how to only get ...
22:28<twb>What's the thing you put in apt.conf?
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22:34<sigp239>Is build-essential the name of the package that gives all the basic stuff needed to compile source?
22:34<sigp239>what is the name of the X development package?
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22:36<Brudus>Does anyone know if there is a iceweasel IRC room anywhere. I got a question.
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22:38<blarson>sigp239: To build a debian package, you need build-essential and the packages build dependancies. Do you mean the X source package?
22:39<sigp239>blarson: No I mean the package that allows me to build stuff that has a requirement for X development files
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22:41<blarson>sigp239: You can search for packages that contain specific files on .
22:41<twb>sigp239: apt-get build-dep ratpoison, for example.
22:41<sigp239>it should be like x-dev or something
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22:43<sigp239>you don't know?
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22:45<sigp239>does debian use x11r6?
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22:46<gravity>sigp239: Are you kidding?
22:46<gravity>No, it doesn't. It has 7.1 + other stuff in etch.
22:46<gravity>7.2 in lenny and unstable
22:46<gravity>+ other stuff
22:46<sigp239>oh so the source I am trying to compile wants to have X11R6
22:47<gravity>What does it mean by that?
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22:47<gravity>You shouldn't have any trouble building with 7.x
22:47<gravity>With the right packages of course
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22:49<gravity>sigp239: What's the exact error it's giving you when you try to build and it fails?
22:49<Brudus>In iceweasel you know when you go to upload something to a website and you press that browse button and the brings up files on your computer. Say I have a folder full of images who's names arn't real specific. I want to see a thumbnail preview like I do in nautilus. Is ther anyway I can do that?
22:50<gravity>Brudus: There's an add-on called thumbs that does that
22:50<Brudus>Okay. I'll look it up.
22:50<gravity>er, not thumbs. There's another one...
22:51<sigp239>gravity: checking for X... no
22:51<sigp239>configure: error: You need X11 to run Basilisk II.
22:52<gravity>sigp239: Install libx11-dev
22:52<sigp239>that's after running ./configure
22:52<sigp239>ok thanks
22:52<gravity>You may need others, but we'll deal with those when we get to them
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22:53<sigp239>it's making
22:53<Brudus>Have you thought of the add-on gravity
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22:57[~]gravity looks for it
22:59<gravity>Brudus: Hrm, I'm not sure if that's exactly what you want though
22:59<gravity>It might get you partway there
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23:02<Brudus>No thats not what I'm looking to do.
23:02<twb>How can I do a "hard reboot"; not running stuff in /etc/rc?.d or anything?
23:03<gravity>Brudus: Sorry, I don't know about anything else. You might have to hack the iceweasel source directly to get what you want.
23:03<gravity>That's getting in to gtk stuff
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23:03<sigp239>gravity: what about the gtk+ development libs?
23:03<sigp239>gravity: what are those called?
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23:08<gravity>sigp239: libgtk2.0-dev
23:09<gravity>sigp239: Using apt-cache search will help you figure these things out on your own
23:09<gravity>The packages all have consistent naming schemes
23:09<twb>Answer: use reboot -f
23:10<twb>I'm running reboot -f, and the system isn't rebooting -- it just sits at the console. I can't switch vts and I can't run commands, but the system doesn't reboot.
23:11<gravity>twb: Get to the hardware and hit the reset button?
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23:18<sigp239>Is there a "stuffit expander" app for debian? I need to extract some old macintosh files with .sea.bin extensions.
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23:21<dashavoo>this is my last point of hope
23:22<dashavoo>has anyone heard of the command lzm2dir ? and if so, how can I get it on debian?
23:22<twb>Not an option.
23:22<dashavoo>twb, what do you mean?
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23:25<twb>dashavoo: I'm talking about my problem, not yours.
23:26<dashavoo>ooh, woops
23:26<dashavoo>I guess iv been looking for this so long I wouldnt be surprised if someone had said to me that it wasnt an option
23:28<tupa>I have a Debian server that I can't ping, how can I enable pinging on the server?
23:30<dashavoo>tupa, look in /etc/sysctl.conf
23:30<Mankod>tupa, if your server are present in the web ie. you have a ip dinamic o real, you have a server that the people can see on the web and you can make ping yoursaver.
23:30<tupa>Hi Mankod :)
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23:30<Mankod>tupa, ;)
23:31<dashavoo>tupa, in the file I said, set this net.ipv4.icmp_echo_ignore_all = 0
23:31<tupa>it has a public IP and other services are running
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23:32<nick_>hi all, i've just install etch, my monitors go blank when gdm starts. Whats the config program for xorg? (I have nvidia drivers)
23:32<nick_>er, an nvidia card:)
23:32<tupa>dashavoo, ok, let me take a look at that :P
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23:37<tupa>dashavoo, and then what?
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23:37<dashavoo>if there is one that is net.ipv4.icmp_echo_ignore_broadcasts = 1 then comment it out
23:37<dashavoo>or set 0
23:37<Brudus>Is is possible to have Gnome and KDE, without going through alot of trouble.
23:37<dashavoo>and then "sysctl -p" to make it have immediate effect
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23:37<annabela>does anybody use driver from
23:38<tupa>nick_ dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
23:38<sigp239>using the dd command can you specify the block size in kilobytes?
23:38<GhostlyDeath>Does Linux have Hardware DEP support?
23:38<sigp239>like bs=1024k
23:38<annabela>I have a problem to install the source-file!
23:39<annabela>are all options in gcc3 supported in gcc4?
23:39<tupa>dashavoo: sysctl gave this net.ipv4.icmp_echo_ignore_all = 0
23:39<tupa>but pinging still doesn't work
23:40<dashavoo>ok, try just commenting it out completely
23:41<dashavoo>and then do sysctl -p again
23:42<tupa>dashavoo are you sure, don't I have to do somethihng like /etc/rc.d/init.d/network restart ?
23:43<dashavoo>try it, maybe you do, im not sure
23:43<niru>I am getting a message as:
23:43<tupa>mmm, I'm waiting for the server admin to reboot it, I don't want to freeze it since I don't have it physically :P
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23:50<twb>14:13 <sigp239> Is there a "stuffit expander" app for debian? I need to extract some old macintosh files with .sea.bin extensions.
23:50<twb>sigp239: it's called "unstuff"
23:50<twb>sigp239: I think you might have to get it from or something, I haven't used it in years
23:50<twb>sigp239: IIRC, there's a non-Free version, and a Free version that doesn't work for most archives.
23:50<annabela>nobody here with an epson printer goes under Avasys-Driver?
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23:57<Brudus>What do i need to do to run either gnome or KDE
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23:58<Brudus>all the searches that have gnome and KDE in them come up with gnome vs kde pages. not how to run them both.
23:59<tupa>Brudus, several ways
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23:59<tupa>startx, gdm, xdm, kdm ...
---Logclosed Mon Jul 30 00:00:00 2007