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#debian IRC Logs for 2007-08-16

---Logopened Thu Aug 16 00:00:08 2007
---Daychanged Thu Aug 16 2007
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00:08<k-man>so how can I copy all the users and their home dirs from one machine to another?
00:08<ayecee>do the users already exist in the target machine, with the same userids?
00:10<ayecee>you'd need to create or copy the users first, then copy their home directories.
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00:11<k-man>ayecee: can I just copy /etc/passwd /etc/shadow and /etc/group?
00:11<k-man>and then copy /home/*
00:11<ayecee>probably, though that will also affect the root user.
00:12<ayecee>it'd be better just to copy the portion for the users.
00:12<k-man>no and probably
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00:12<k-man>ayecee: ok, fair enough
00:12<ayecee>say, anything for userids above 1000
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00:26<mrtrill>where do i can get help about ubuntu
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00:27<dpkg>yes, ubuntu is <based on debian>. Still, it has its own packages which are different and they have their own bugs and different ways of working that are unique to ubuntu. If we give you advice here, we could break your system more than it already is. So please, ask #ubuntu - See also <based on debian caveats>.
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00:30<mrtrill>what is username and password for ubuntu
00:30<mrtrill>im installing it right now
00:30<mrtrill>but its asking username and password
00:30<jm_>uhm you were just told where to ask
00:31<mrtrill>but theres ni respond there
00:31<mrtrill>but theres no respond there
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00:32<chealer>mrtrill: sorry but this is not a backup channel for #ubuntu
00:33<mrtrill>i need to reinstall windows then
00:33<waterjacket>even though it isn't a backup channel, does anyone know the answer
00:33<mrtrill>thanks 4 ur hel
00:33<mrtrill>thanks 4 ur help
00:33<waterjacket>google might know
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00:53<spion>hmm ... who highlighted me? :)
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01:18<k-man>what is the difference between the shadow and the shadow- file?
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01:23<masterloki>Hi there can someone help me to track down an error?
01:23<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For Example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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01:24<masterloki>When changed from kernel 2.6.18 -> 2.6.21-2 the system freezes when KDE starts
01:24<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For Example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
01:25<masterloki>I suspect this is a problem with this machine, since I've already updated on other and run just fine
01:26<masterloki>which log should I see?
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01:28<blarson>masterloki: I'd look in /var/log/Xorg*
01:28<blarson>masterloki: It may be a bug in your display driver, what video card and driver are you using?
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01:30<jm_>masterloki: can you ping it?
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01:33<masterloki>blarson: its a NVidia Go 6150
01:33<masterloki>jm_: ping what?
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01:34<masterloki>blarson: it doesnt seem to be the error
01:34<masterloki>already checked Xorg0.log.old
01:34<jm_>masterloki: uhm the system that freezes - what else are we talking about?
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01:35<masterloki>mmm i could try but need to set up a few thing
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01:36<masterloki>just wait a few minutes
01:38<k-man>how do i export a filesystem so i can read it as though I was root?
01:38<k-man>or... whats the best way to copy all home dirs from one machine to another?
01:39<sep>k-man man exoprts
01:39<sep>k-man man exports
01:39<jm_>man exports search for root
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01:39<k-man>sep, yeah.. i'm looking at that... but i don't get how to allow me to read all users files
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01:40<sep>k-man, hmm you must be root ofcourse
01:40<k-man>sep, i am
01:40<sep>no_root_squash,insecure,ro or soemthing :)
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01:41<sep>k-man, if you want to copy the homedirs i'd go to singleusermode (to avoid files in use) then use rsync or cp
01:41<masterloki_>mmm the system just freezes now at runlevel 2
01:41<peterS>k-man: I'd use rsync-over-ssh instead of nfs, for making that kind of copy, actually. rsync can compress files, for one thing, so it'll probably be faster. and no nfs setup requited
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01:42<k-man>peterS: cool
01:42<k-man>ill look into that
01:42<dechande>Hey guys here comes a noob question, sorry :P
01:42<dechande>$ modprobe
01:42<dechande>bash: modprobe: command not found
01:42<peterS>k-man: or rsync-over-the-rsync-protocol is another possibility, maybe a bit faster than over ssh, but requires writing a /etc/rsyncd.conf file and adding rsync to /etc/inetd.conf, so a bit more work
01:42<peterS>dechande: you can't run modprobe as non-root
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01:43<peterS>dechande: only root can insert modules into the kernel
01:43<dechande>haha, knew it would be somethingstupid, sorry >_<
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01:44<peterS>no need to be sorry, it was a valid question
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01:45<masterloki_>jm_: Ok, the system started X, pinged it, works
01:45<jm_>masterloki_: did it hang too?
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01:45<masterloki_>jm_: I tried to start my session froze and no ping
01:46<dechande>:) This is why i love linux communities, people actually help :D (Im semi-new to linux, installed debian last night, but i have used other live cd distros in the past, and some dual-boots, this time i finally have a pc worth wiping of all traces of windows and making a dedicated *nix machine)
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01:46<masterloki_>jm_: seem to be hanging at random with kernel 2.6.21-2
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01:47<jm_>masterloki_: ok in that case you'd probably want to find out what kernel says when it happens
01:47<dechande>So one more newb question and im all good for a while, at least until i ruin my kernel, How can i terminate x and gnome and log into terminal to modprobe -v fglrx im kicking myself for not being able to remember how to terminate x
01:47<jm_>dechande: you don't have to, do it in X
01:48<dechande># modprobe -v fglrx
01:48<dechande>insmod /lib/modules/2.6.18-4-686/misc/fglrx.ko
01:48<dechande>FATAL: Error inserting fglrx (/lib/modules/2.6.18-4-686/misc/fglrx.ko): Operation not permitted
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01:48<masterloki_>jm_: where should I look?
01:49|-|mode/#debian [+l 294] by debhelper
01:49|-|masterloki_ changed nick to masterloki
01:49<dechande>README.Debian in the fglrx-src package instructed me to do so but not how :P stating that with x in use i cant initiate an x module
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01:49<jm_>ahh fglrx - use init script to stop gdm or so
01:50<jm_>masterloki: serial console or netconsole (serial being better option)
01:50<masterloki>jm_: not even keyborad work
01:50<dechande>jm_: Sorry unsure of what you mean by that.
01:51<dechande>Hm, ill go get a drink until you arent busy with masterloki so you dont have to be answering two things at once, i work in a faults callcenter so i know whats its like to be getting spammed with help requests :P brb
01:52<WildOS>is it possible to use if commands within a makefile?
01:52<jm_>masterloki: yeah kernel panic most likely
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01:52<jm_>dechande: logout from X, then use init script -- "ls /etc/init.d/*dm" (i.e. invoke-rc.d gdm stop)
01:53<jm_>WildOS: yes
01:53<masterloki>jm_: but the most annoying is that it freezes at random
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01:54<masterloki>jm_: I think I should downgrade to etch (since I'm in lenny)
01:54<dechande>Danke jm_ one question, how to logout from x ? :D
01:55<jm_>dechande: don't you have a menu of some sorts with logout option?
01:55<jm_>masterloki: well or try .22 from sid
01:55<k-man>does rsync copy file permissions also?
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01:56<masterloki>jm_: I'll give it a try and let you now
01:56<dechande>ah ok yep thought logout took me to gdm login screen, but tbh havent tried it lol, theres an x option ?
01:56<gsimmons>k-man: It can ('-p' switch).
01:56<kapil>k-man: use the -a switch. also not the -n switch which (with -v) shows you what it plns to do without doing it
01:57<WildOS>jm_: what is the syntax? The following did not work: if[ $(USER) != root ] then .. fi
01:57<kapil>k-man: s/not/note/
01:57<kapil>k-man: if you have hard links you may want to examine the -H switch.
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02:00<WildOS>jm_: found it
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02:00<WildOS>Thanks :)
02:00<jm_>WildOS: info make -> Conditionals for GNU make, but note that this is not cross-platform
02:00<jm_>WildOS: i.e. on Solaris it supports bourne shell syntax
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02:12<k-man>how do i make rsync copy the uids and gids?
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02:15<Branden>My sound dont seem to work, what can I do about this?
02:15<Giacomo>is there any way I can get info about CPU in Debian?
02:16<gsimmons>Giacomo: cat /proc/cpuinfo
02:16<Giacomo>where can I find
02:16<Branden>I don't think Debian is reconizeing my Sound Card, I don't know.
02:16<Giacomo>all information about those utilities on the net?
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02:18<jm_>what utilities?
02:19<Branden>It says the GStreamer can't find a device to control... What do I do?
02:20<gsimmons>k-man: Use the '-o' switch (it's part of '-a' if you're supplying this). The receiving rsync end will need to be running as the super-user. Use '--numeric-ids' if you don't want the user/group name mapping to be performed.
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02:22<James_S>Hello! I'm doing a new debian install, and I am wondering if maybe I can get someone to help walk me through this as I've never installed debian before
02:22<gsimmons>James_S: Have you read the Installation Guide?
02:23<cahoot>Branden, what happends if you run: aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav in a term?
02:23<deavid>Branden: there is a script called "alsaconf". You can run it as root, and this script will help you, looking up for any soundcard.
02:23<James_S>no, can't say as I've read the whole thing
02:23<Supaplex>James_S: are you stuck on something?
02:23<James_S>no, not really, just want to make sure I'm making wise decisions
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02:24<James_S>I've only installed RH 8.0 and FC3/5...this format is a bit new to me
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02:25<Supaplex>if you get stuck or have questions, consult d-i, if you're still stumped, ask here.
02:25<Supaplex>!tell James_S -about d-i
02:25<Branden>I'm going to pastebin the error.
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02:27<deavid>Branden: have you tried alsaconf?
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02:27<cahoot>Branden, yes it looks like you soundcard isn't recognised
02:28<cahoot>run dpkg-reconfigure linux-sound-base && invoke-rc.d alsa-utils reset 0
02:28<Branden>Ok, will do.
02:29<Branden>What sound system should I use?
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02:30<Branden>Resetting ALSA card 0...failed (none loaded).
02:30<Branden>invoke-rc.d: initscript alsa-utils, action "reset" failed.
02:30<Branden>Resetting ALSA card 0...failed (none loaded).
02:30<Branden>invoke-rc.d: initscript alsa-utils, action "reset" failed.
02:30<Branden>Resetting ALSA card 0...failed (none loaded).
02:30|-|Branden kicked [#debian] debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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02:30[~]Supaplex tattoos into Branden's forehead
02:30<Branden>It didn't look like it was pasteing.
02:31<cahoot>Branden, do you know what type of sounddevice this is?
02:31<Branden>I don't use GAIM, I'm use of my mIRC.
02:31<Branden>nVidia, if I'm correct.
02:31<Branden>Its an onbaord sound card.
02:31<cahoot>Branden, lspci -v
02:32<Branden>I shall PasteBin this.
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02:32<Supaplex>you don't need to tell us everytime you use a paste site. just go on with it, and return with the url (and maybe a terse description to go with it)
02:32<k-man>ah, got rsync working
02:33<k-man>that was a great idea
02:33<Supaplex>k-man: rsync is da creamy filling. :)
02:33<James_S>The guide says that I need 1 GB hdd for no desktop and 5 GB for a desktop install, I've got a 2.1 Gb hdd and an goal is to have a webserver to practice coding on...would it be 'safe' to use the 2.1 gb hdd?
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02:33<k-man>how do i get rsync to rsync everything?
02:34<cahoot>Branden, ok it's a snd-hda-intel thingie
02:34<Branden>Is it fixable?
02:34<cahoot>Branden, the name of the relevant alsa module
02:34<Supaplex>k-man: -axuHSvP --delete --numeric-ids is what I usually use on backups.
02:35<cahoot>Branden, does /proc/asound/version exist?
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02:35<Supaplex>James_S: you could use the 2.1gb for /var/www if you want
02:35<cahoot>Branden, uname -r
02:35<James_S>Supaplex, but not for the 'main' install?
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02:36<k-man>Supaplex: what does the --delete do?
02:36<Supaplex>James_S: yea, you could. lvm might make juggling disk volumes eaiser if you start running out of room.
02:37<Supaplex>k-man: deletes files (on the dest) no longer found on the source
02:37<k-man>Supaplex: ah, i see
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02:38<James_S>but would it be better just to get rid of that puny little 2.1 and just use the 80? I'm not familiar at all with partitioning on linux, so I'm feeling kinda confused about what is the best road to take here
02:39<Supaplex>James_S: you could use the 2.1 for swap, or leave the drive out of the picture. that's the great thing about Linux. there's countless ways to do stuff.
02:40<cahoot>Branden, google doesn't give much help on this but it's fair to guess the latest possible alsaversion would give a better chance with that device
02:40<Supaplex>cahoot: or a few backports?
02:40<cahoot>Supaplex, which?
02:40<Branden>Ok. I'll have to look into that later, I'm haveing problems with my Windows computer now. This'd figure!
02:40<James_S>I guess I'll just get rid of it....seems kinda useless to keep it
02:40<Supaplex>cahoot: is his device too new for etch?
02:41<Branden>What program can burn ISO's on Debian?
02:42<k-man>hmm... something strange is happening, only have of the user accounts are getting transfered accross using rsync
02:42<Supaplex>growisofs (1) - combined mkisofs frontend/DVD recording program.
02:42<cahoot>for a plain iso?
02:43<Branden>It has an OS on it.
02:43<Branden>Well, I want it to have an OS on it.
02:43<cahoot>wodim then
02:44<Branden>It seems I already have it.
02:44<James_S>ok that's odd, debian reported the drive as being 2.1 gb, but the enclosure says that indicative of a problem?
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02:52<k-man>so why would rsync only be syncing some of the directories?
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02:57<Supaplex>k-man: are you using trailing slashes on source and destination?
02:58<Supaplex>rsync here there != rsync here/ there/
02:58<k-man>Supaplex: well..
02:58<k-man>hang on
02:59<Supaplex>!tell k-man -about enter
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03:00<k-man>Supaplex: sorry. this is my command line: rsync -axuHS --delete --numeric-ids "rsync://home@"
03:00<k-man>i am not putting a destination
03:00<k-man>is that bad?
03:01<Supaplex>I guess it assumes '.'
03:01<k-man>well, i just tried it with the . and it worked
03:01<Supaplex>so you don't use ssh huh?
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03:02<k-man>so i guess whatever it was assuming was not .
03:02<k-man>Supaplex: no.. this is an internal transfer...
03:02<Supaplex>k-man: review the man page in detail. I'm serious about the trailing slash. it's a design unique to rsync
03:02<k-man>Supaplex: once it is finished, i'll dissable rsync
03:02<k-man>Supaplex: ok, thanks
03:03<WildOS>If I do a chmod u+s on my executable I can run it without being su, but gdb fails to run it without being su. Why is this?
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03:04<James_S>I just checked, and my BIOS sees the drive as 20.5, but the debian installer insists it's 2.1...does this matter? Should I still use the disc?
03:06<_Staz>Which $PATH does sudo use?
03:08<WildOS>_Staz: Was that for me?
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03:10<_Staz>anyone :)
03:10<Supaplex>WildOS: because gdb, and other strace friends can either recover sensitive data, or modify it in flight
03:10<jm_>WildOS: security
03:10<Berge>_Staz: PATH=foo /usr/bin/sudo env
03:10<Supaplex>gdb /sbin/passwd == bad :)
03:11<_Staz>Berge : I mean does sudo search the shell's path to find the application you wish to run?
03:12<Berge>_Staz: sudo sets a new PATH. You can use env to examine it.
03:12<WildOS>Supaplex & jm_: Is there a way around it?
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03:13<WildOS>Else I will have to run netbeans as root.. trying to avoid that option
03:13<_Staz>Berge : cheers :)
03:13<Supaplex>WildOS: run gdb as root?
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03:14<jm_>WildOS: debug it as root/remove +s ;)
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03:16<WildOS>Supaples & jm_: Is that really the only way? NetBeans and KDevelop is messing up my files when running as su..
03:16<Branden>How can I burn an OS (ISO) to a CD-RW that has been writen on before with wodim.
03:17<cahoot> wodim blank=help
03:17<Berge>_Staz: np (-:
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03:22<Supaplex>WildOS: possibly, let me chase a few web searches down
03:22<k-man>do you need to do anything special to sync hidden files?
03:22<k-man>with rsync
03:24<Supaplex>WildOS: is at the fringe of my understanding. eg, CAP_SYS_PTRACE
03:24<jm_>WildOS: not with regular kernel
03:27<Supaplex>k-man: nothing special. Here's my full cli for backing up a colo. (repeat for each mountpoint you desire backed up) rsync -axuHSvP --delete --numeric-ids --rsh="ssh -c blowfish -l root" --exclude-from=excludes.txt colo1:/usr colo1-usr/
03:28<WildOS>hmm.. is it possible to change user to root for a running program?
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03:30<WildOS>Or does it have to be started as root to get root privilegies?
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03:31<jm_>WildOS: well you can call functions, but it won't really work normally
03:31<Supaplex>WildOS: what's the underlying issue again?
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03:34<WildOS>Supaplex: I've got an application that are executing function that requires root user (e.g. changing to RT priority). I use KDevelop and NetBeans to develop, and it would be handy to debug code where I am writing it. But to do this I have to be superuser, or my app wont run. When starting KDevelop and NetBeans as root they keep messing with my files... :(
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03:35<thctlo2>hi everybody, small question, i want to do something like this : cat /filename | todos this gives me output on console, but i want something like this, xtod filename with output on console.
03:35<jm_>thctlo2: man tee
03:35<_Staz>Hey Berge: How does one change sudo's PATH?
03:36<Supaplex>WildOS: can it be setup in a chroot?
03:36<jm_>_Staz: man sudoers
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03:36<WildOS>Supaplex: how will that help me?
03:37<Supaplex>WildOS: only files in the chroot become affected
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03:39<Branden>Can someone tell me where the kernel is located/
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03:39<Supaplex>Branden: /boot/
03:39<thctlo2>wel jm_ tee does not work :-( other sugestions
03:39<Branden>Thank you.
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03:40<WildOS>Supaplex: hmm.. but if i change files as root I also have to be root to use the cvs and so on... lots of issues.. and the project is huge.. I will end up with some files needing root access while others won't require it
03:40<jm_>thctlo2: tee *does* work, but I suppose I misunderstood what you actually want
03:41<Branden>I'm sorry, I ment the Kernel sources.
03:41<Supaplex>WildOS: sounds far too unwildly. sorry.
03:41<Supaplex>!tell Branden -about search
03:41<thctlo2>im converting unix programs to linux.. i need a command thats take a file and printers te content on my screen
03:41<Supaplex>thctlo2: like cat?
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03:42<thctlo2>yes like cat
03:42<Supaplex>thctlo2: linux has cat.
03:43<padski>Branden: apt-get install linux-source
03:43<irwiss>does it also have dog? </lamemorningjokes>
03:43<jm_>irwiss: it does
03:43<jm_>apt-cache show dog
03:44<thctlo2>jm_ cat prints everything as 1 line
03:44<Supaplex>thctlo2: then your file only has one line.
03:44<Supaplex>thctlo2: behold wc
03:44<padski>Branden: (would have been kernel-source on sarge and older)
03:44<thctlo2>no the files has 50 lines..
03:44<jm_>thctlo2: you want to indent it?
03:45<jm_>man indent
03:45<Supaplex>thctlo2: cat -n or wc.
03:45<thctlo2>thats why im trying with todos and unix2dos.
03:45<jm_>that's got nothing to do with indenting - you want to convert DOS line endings to unix?
03:45<Supaplex>thctlo2: you said UNIX now you're suggesting DOS.
03:46<dpkg>well, crlf is carriage return line forward, or ask me about crlf->unix
03:46<jm_>there you go
03:46<jm_>any decent editor will be able to do that for you too
03:46<Supaplex>also vim :set ff=(dos|unix|...)
03:46<jm_>but I wonder why they have CRLF if they are Unix programs ;)
03:46[~]vastinfest gal reikia arzda apsiskust kad zmones maziau bijotu..
03:46<Supaplex>kick the ftp in the ascii ;)
03:47[~]vastinfest *barzda
03:47<thctlo2>jm_ on unix the comand i want was: xtod filename | lp -dprinter
03:47<thctlo2>( that was on sco unix ) , now i need it on debian..
03:47<Supaplex>what's xtod?
03:48<padski>how would I get get vi to tell me the options for fileformat ?
03:48<thctlo2>xtod prints the content from file to console
03:48<Myon>that's what cat does, too
03:48<Branden>I'm getting this: The file /user/src/linux/include/linux/version.h does not exist. Please install the package with the full kernel sources for your distribution or use --with-kernel=dir option to specify another directory with kernel sources (defult is /usr/src/linux) .. Sorry, I'm new and just trying to get sound to work.
03:48<Myon>what's wrong with the 'cat' output?
03:48<thctlo2>xtod filename | lp -dprinter prints it..
03:49<Supaplex>thctlo2: then lp -dprinter < filename should operate the same.
03:49<jm_>that's bogus, lp file.txt works just as well
03:49<thctlo2>branden apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r`
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03:49<Supaplex>Branden: what are you installing?
03:50<thctlo2>linux headers, he needs to compile ..
03:50<Supaplex>oh sound. must be alsa stuffs.
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03:50<mixter>hi! could i run the partition manager i used in debian-installer to resize partitions and lvm volumes after installation? whats the name of this manager?
03:51<Branden>Oh great! That would be the CD I just cleaned!!!!
03:51<Branden>Today is NOT my day.
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03:51<Branden>Can I virtualy mount a iso?
03:51<jm_>Branden: you have my permission!
03:51<Supaplex>!tell Branden -about sources.list
03:51<Branden>Ok. How?
03:52<Supaplex>just axe the cdrom lines.
03:52<jm_>loop mount, isoinfo can also extract files from ISO9660 images
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03:52<Supaplex>mount -o loop,ro file.iso where/
03:52<Branden>Ok that was confuseing...
03:52<Supaplex>!confuse Branden
03:52<dpkg>Yes, them was your badger tomorrow, Branden? pants of the people's republic of belarus with extra anchovies
03:53<Supaplex>no, that my friend is confusing.
03:54<Branden>That is where the ISO is.
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03:56<padski>mount foo.iso /mnt -o loop
03:56<Branden>Sooo, would I do: mount -o loop,ro debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso /cdrom/
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03:58<Supaplex>Branden: does that system have working network access?
03:58<Branden>What do you mean?
03:58<Supaplex>can it download files off the internet?
03:59<lupine_85>Branden: you also need -t iso9660
03:59<Supaplex>consider what dpkg said a few min ago about sources.list. the cd isn't neccessary then
03:59<lupine_85>or -t udf, if it is (which it probably isn't)
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04:00<jm_>you don't need to specify -t
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04:01<lupine_85>ho hum, since when?
04:02<padski>well you don't if the filesystem can be properly recognised. some can't
04:02<lupine_85>I haven't used -o loop in a while, but last time I did I remember it complaining without -t
04:02<lupine_85>and that was an iso9660 fs
04:02<Branden>I did it. ;)
04:02<lupine_85>w00t? :)
04:02<Branden>Woot! :D
04:02<lupine_85>an extra 10 characters won't break anyone's keyboard, anyway :D
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04:03[~]Supaplex removes 10 excess charaters from lupine_85's keyboard
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04:04<Branden>Well, that still didn't fix my sound apparently.
04:04<padski>lupine_85: I trip over over-specifying the filesystem type quite often (especially in fstab).
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04:05<lupine_85>padski: As long as you do it right, it can't hurt, surely? :D And how often does the fs type of a partition change?
04:05<lupine_85>(plus, you can do foo,bar constructs)
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04:06<lupine_85>mm, that too.
04:06<Glanzmann>Is compromised?
04:06<padski>lupine_85: and there are circumstances (I forget, but dealing with dos/vfat filesystems) where you really have to care which type. just articulating a few reasons why you might want to care about those 10 chars :-)
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04:08<padski>Glanzmann: /msg dpkg no public key
04:08<Supaplex>!tell Glanzmann -about etch key
04:08<Glanzmann>I have public key.
04:08<Glanzmann>But the update seems to want to install a new one.
04:08<padski>then why are you installing debian-archive-keyring ?
04:08<Glanzmann>And this 18 updates just rolled in.
04:08<Glanzmann>Can you read?
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04:09<lupine_85>nope, not a word
04:09<padski>Glanzmann: what is it, lenny, sid ?
04:09<Supaplex>!etch key
04:09<dpkg># apt-get install debian-archive-keyring && apt-get update
04:09<Supaplex>Glanzmann: dpkg -l debian-archive-keyring
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04:10<Supaplex>ii debian-archive-keyring 2007.02.19 GnuPG archive keys of the Debian archive
04:10<Glanzmann>I think that is strange that is shipping _18_ packages just this minute and also ships a new keyring.
04:11<Glanzmann>All my servers are checked by nagios every 4 minutes for updates.
04:11<kapil>mixter: that would be partman
04:11<Branden>Ok last question, I hope so I don't keep bugging you all, how do I burn an OS (ISO) useing wodim
04:11<Supaplex>Glanzmann: what's the ip?
04:11<Glanzmann>And I just got a few SMS that 18 updates are available.
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04:11<Glanzmann>Supaplex: I don't give you the ip.
04:12<Supaplex>Glanzmann: of
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04:12<lupine_85>Branden: man wodim suggests "wodim dev=<devicefile - /dev/cdrom?> <list of .iso files>"
04:12<jm_>s.d.o is several hosts
04:12<lupine_85>e.g. wodim dev=/dev/cdrom track1.iso track2.iso
04:12<mixter>kapil: thanks!
04:12<Supaplex>no shit. if his dns is hijacked, we'll see a rogue address
04:12<Branden>Thank you.
04:13<lupine_85>Branden: np. remember that man and apropos are your friends :)
04:13<Supaplex>Glanzmann: fwiw, I'm still at apache2.2-common 2.2.3-4
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04:14<mixter>kapil: could i use it after installation? aptitude can't find it and i get warnings when search about partman only being a package for debian-installer
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04:15<lupine_85> should be one of:
04:16<lupine_85>looking good
04:17<Supaplex>apt-cache clean, do download only, then show md5sums of the downloaded debs
04:17<WildOS>Anyone here using NetBeans? Is there no frame stack in the IDE? And is it possible to watch memory addresses in debug?
04:17<lupine_85>not much point to that if the server's compromised
04:17<lupine_85>not that I think it is
04:17<Supaplex>well, verify them by hand ala gpgv
04:18<lupine_85>there's a point. if the package maintainers are sane, won't the keyring update be signed with the previous key?
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04:18<Supaplex>WildOS: netbeans isn't in debian
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04:19<lupine_85>hmm. but no, not by the looks of it
04:19<Glanzmann>I already wrote the E-mail.
04:19<Glanzmann>However I have to work.
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04:20<WildOS>Supaplex: I know.. in what channel am I most likely to meet people that uses NetBeans?
04:20<lupine_85>#java ? ;)
04:20<lupine_85>heh, there is no #java
04:21<WildOS>I am using it for c++ development
04:22<Supaplex>!insult netbeans
04:22<dpkg>netbeans is nothing but a low-quality enema-bucketful of low-quality chicken piss
04:22<Supaplex>no idea WildOS :)
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04:24<WildOS>Supaplex: I agree on the insult. NetBeans is not even close compared to the power of e.g. Visual Studio
04:25<WildOS>Supaplex: but compared to KDevelop it has some features that I like =)
04:25<WildOS>and lacking some :(
04:26<lupine_85>kdevelop is solid-gold win
04:27<lupine_85>but I tend to use kdbg for debugging
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04:27<lupine_85>not exactly integrated, but meh
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04:28<lupine_85>eh? My kernel is eating ~600MB RAM
04:29[~]Supaplex exits firefox ;)
04:29<Eulex>lupine_85, hmm, odd. how are you measuring that?
04:29<lupine_85>KDE taskbar thingy
04:30<lupine_85>lots of red, tiny bit of blur, some yellow and green
04:30<padski>lupine_85: system monitor ?
04:30<lupine_85>that's the one
04:30<Eulex>does top and free -m confirm your observation?
04:30<lupine_85>Mem: 1507 1471 36 0 404 237
04:31<lupine_85>they're useless, really, due to memory disc caching and stuff
04:31<dpkg>rumour has it, ram is (Random Access Memory) The place in your computer that programs reside when running. or usually small but very fast storage device, or unused ram is _wasted_ ram! Ask about <free ram>
04:31<Eulex>right, 404 + 237 mb for buffers and cache. that's what the kde taskbar is telling you.
04:31<lupine_85>yep, and they're measured seperately to the kernel ram
04:31<lupine_85>(they're the yellow & green)
04:32<lupine_85>so what on earth is the kernel (2.6.21-2-amd64) doing?
04:32<Eulex>600mb of buffers and cache sounds like quite a healthy system. actually, I'd expect more of it on a system with 1.5gb ram, your apps seem to use ~900mb totally.
04:32<jm_>maybe you should ask yourself what is KDE thing doing
04:33[~]Supaplex reads the growisofs man page in depth again
04:33<lupine_85>KDE runs in usermode
04:33<Eulex>it uses free ram as caches and buffers.
04:33<lupine_85>Eulex: I know all this. Kernel ram usage is ~600MB. Buffers 404; cache 237; usermode ~300MV
04:34<lupine_85>12 hours ago, buffers were ~1GB
04:34<jm_>in relation to displaying this info obviously
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04:34<Eulex>lupine_85, this memory will be quickly freed if it's needed for applications. don't worry if you don't feel that this _isn't_ happening.
04:34<Eulex>but yes, 1gb of buffers is a lot.
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04:35<lupine_85>no, it's not a lot. It's normal for buffers to fill the available memory spacce
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04:35<lupine_85>It's not normal for a kernel to use up 600MB RAM
04:35<Eulex>kernel memory usage you're seeing == caches and buffers.
04:36<blarson> bugs currently has 12GB in buffers.
04:36<lupine_85>Eulex: really? Why are they marked seperately then?
04:36<Eulex>lupine_85, ask the kde guys. free shows the truth.
04:37<lupine_85>I should note that when buffers = 1GB, the red doesn't = 1GB
04:37<Eulex>odd. ask the kde guys exactly what they're measuring.
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04:39<Supaplex>if i'm using growisofs, how do I ensure I'm not using too much data on the disc? What's the rules for calculating the overhead on files? the manpage states something about hybrid discs, and also 4700*(1000**2) but that's all.
04:39<padski>lupine_85: mine has a seperate green area for cache and yellow for buffers
04:39<Eulex>but I repeat, top and free show the truth.
04:39[~]lupine_85 takes a loook at the pdf
04:39<lupine_85>padski: mine too
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04:39<lupine_85>Eulex: lovely stuff, but what I'm seeing is that 'kernel' is not equivalent to 'cache + buffers'
04:40<jm_>Supaplex: it uses mkisofs internally, you can use -print-size in advance
04:40<lupine_85>indeed, cache is now 0, buffers is >, and kernel has now dropped to ~200MB
04:40<Eulex>lupine_85, ok, open up top then and see what it says. specifically the kernel threads.
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04:42<Supaplex>jm_: I'm trying to split 120gb of data, that means I'd have to use trial+error until it wasted the least amount of space
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04:42<lupine_85>I have no idea which of these are kernel and which are user
04:43<jm_>Supaplex: if you want to know how much data you can fit on DVD discs, then it's about 4489MB for -R and 4483 for +R if my memory serves me well (use dvd+rw-mediainfo to find out exact numbers)
04:43<lupine_85>on the other hand, kernel has now reduced to ~= user, so i'm not so fussed
04:45<Eulex>lupine_85, most kernel threads are prefixed with k. and just look for stuff that uses a lot of memory.
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04:47<lupine_85>hrm. Nothing obvious comes up using top or ps
04:48<lupine_85>if it happens again, I'll peek at the code and see exactly what sysmon is measuring
04:48<lupine_85>it could be lumping root tasks in there or anything, really
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04:54<Kebianizao>Supaplex: I managed to do that using hooks as you said
04:54<Kebianizao>I haven't tested it fully, but now the initrd images include the reiserfsck file
04:55<Kebianizao>I'm reading what doc is there on the Debian wiki regarding initramfs because I'd like to organize it a little and also write a small article abou the this "trick"
04:55<Supaplex>Kebianizao: spiffy :)
04:57<Kebianizao>thanks for your help
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04:57<Kebianizao>I also thought that the suspend2-userui package should include all the neccesary initramfs hooks for it to work
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05:03<indraveni>when I am trying to add new server in the dictionary applicaiton of debian, and later connecting then, I am seeing an error message saying,Connection failed to the dictionary server at
05:03<indraveni>why is it so
05:04<indraveni>am i missing somehting in configuration
05:05<jm_>indraveni: uhm is dictd running on
05:07<indraveni>jm_, how can i find that?
05:07<Eulex>telnet 2628, perhaps?
05:08<Eulex>connection refused here.
05:08<jm_>indraveni: well why did you add to config file if you don't know what services it's offering?
05:08<Eulex>so it appears not.
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05:09<indraveni>jm_, i want to add a new dictionary server and when i googled it, i found
05:10<indraveni>jm_, even i tried with
05:10<jm_>indraveni: install dictd and relevant dictionaries on your system et voila
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05:11<Eulex>indraveni, and you found info about that they provide services that dict can use?
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05:19<indraveni>jm_, ok i will try, thankyou
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05:19<Andrea>bara fint :)
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05:20<jm_>try #debian-fi
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05:22<heej>whats up?
05:23<Andrea>du? ;P
05:24<heej>nicee, jadu
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05:26<indraveni>jm_, i installede dictd, but how can i know that which services are provided?
05:26<jm_>indraveni: apt-cache show dictd
05:26<jm_>that's the service it provides - dictionary server
05:27<indraveni>jm_, ok, so now i can try connectig to my newly added server?
05:28<jm_>indraveni: sure, don't forget to actually install dictionairy packages
05:28<indraveni>jm_, i want to add a new dictionary server to the existing list,
05:28<indraveni>jm_, i am sorry, i couldn't get you, which dictionary packages i need to install ?
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05:28<jm_>indraveni: look at suggested packages for dictd for example
05:29<brislingf>hi there.. i have a pop3 courier mailserver which i cant reach from the network, but it works on localhost.. what have i forgot ?
05:29<jm_>there are plenty more
05:29<newbie`>hello, I lost my GRUB throught upgrading windows, so i cant boot my debian sarge! any idea please?
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05:30<berto>newbie`: you can download a grub floppy/cd and reinstall it
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05:30<indraveni>jm_, so , the procedure is installing packages only? then what is the ue of the Add button that is provided int he Dictionary -? Edit -> preferences?
05:30<gsimmons>!tell newbie` -about fixmbr
05:30<newbie`>grubcd as image, where can i find this?
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05:31[~]vastinfest doupt.. kai isipjoviau besiskusdamas tai puse snukio kruvina..
05:31<jm_>newbie`: you can use debina installation CD in rescue mode
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05:32<jm_>indraveni: I have no idea what Dictionary -? Edit -> preferences is, I thought you were referring to dict command line utility
05:32<newbie`>jm_, great, i tried but i dont know how to go to rescue mode and i dont wanna distroy my already installed system
05:33<jm_>newbie`: press f1 at boot prompt and then follow hints to access other help screens, it's in there
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05:34<newbie`>jm_, i did, should any parameter to acces to the rescue mode there?
05:34<jm_>newbie`: yes, of course
05:34<gsimmons>!tell newbie` -about rescue mode
05:34<newbie`>okay thanks i try again :)
05:35<berto>you can download either one
05:35<berto>and boot them
05:35<berto>or use the FAQ that jm_ says
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05:36<newbie`>thanks a lot people
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05:50<WildOS>IS there a graphical profiler for debian?
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06:57<malheur>hello, i need help!!!
06:58<malheur>i had a hd crash with ext3
06:58<malheur>broken superblock and journal
06:58<malheur>after recovery it seems that the first 3 bits of the perms are not set
06:58<malheur>mailservice and other stuff fails
06:59<zwl>I will input these words so that i can tyr
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06:59<malheur>can you point me to a place where i can look up the original perms for my binaries?
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07:01<zwl>sorry ,but you can google it
07:01<malheur>zwl: doin so...
07:02<zwl>Have you ever tried it ?if you get any problems,you can google
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07:05<zwl>Are there any people who can answer malheur's questions?
07:05<zwl>if you can ,please help him
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07:09<padski>malheur: have you considered reinstalling ?
07:09<malheur>padski: not possible atm
07:09<padski>malheur: why?
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07:10<malheur>padski: i'll try to reinstall some important packages
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07:10<malheur>padski: the box is needed
07:10<padski>malheur: how much downtime can you not afford ?
07:11<malheur>padski: if you ask me...atm non
07:12<malheur>padski: i'm reinstalling some packages now
07:13<malheur>padski: i think it would be a good idea to include the perms in the file list at
07:14<padski>malheur: on a web page ?
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07:15<malheur>padski: yes to add it to the file list of all packages, i mean like ls -l
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07:17<padski>malheur: integrity checkers have to check perms
07:17<jm_>why? if your system is so important it's bound to be under backup
07:17<malheur>jm: uh, yeah you're so right
07:18<jm_>permissions can be easily obtained from debs if you need them
07:18<malheur>jm: i'have a backup now!!! but still no money
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07:18<malheur>jm_: good idea!
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07:19<zwl>That is great
07:19<malheur>jm_: reinstalling is faster now
07:19<jm_>malheur: possibly yes
07:19<padski>malheur: reinstalling is probably the right thing to do after serious filesystem damage
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07:20<malheur>padski: uh, it's just the 3 bits
07:20<padski>malheur: how can you possibly know that ?
07:21<malheur>padski: debugfs was not aware of
07:21<malheur>padski: i'm sure
07:21<padski>huh ?
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07:24<malheur>puh...important things work now
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07:24<padski>fair enough :-)
07:25<malheur>many thanks for your assistance
07:25<gsimmons>malheur: You might want to install and run debsums to validate your sure-ness.
07:25<padski>good luck with it
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07:25<fatal_>for pkg in $(dpkg --get-selections | cut -d' ' -f1); do apt-get install --reinstall $pkg ; done
07:26<padski>debsums, that's what I was trying to remember. I take it that does not check perms then
07:26<fatal_>wouldn't that restore permissions?
07:26<fatal_>(for any files provided in the package itself, not generated files like configuration files and stuff)
07:26<malheur>fatal_: nice, that
07:27<jm_>no it doesn't check that
07:27<malheur>fatal_: but...roooooor
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07:28<reval>erg, heh. hi
07:28<ranix>does anyone know where the default list of spamassassin rules is?
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07:29<ranix>I want to tweak the score given to posts that check positive in Razor2, and want to look at the existing rule for reference on how
07:29<jm_>list contents of the package
07:29<padski>ranix: in /var/lib/spamassassin or /sur/share/spamassassin
07:30<ranix>I appreciate it, padski
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07:30<m_g>hi people, it's me again
07:30<malheur>gsimmons: i'll check that
07:31<m_g>when i did a dist-upgrade the system froze (reason unknown). when i now try to install a package i get: 'debconf: DbDriver "config": could not open /var/cache/debconf/config.dat' i googled on this but didn't find a really helpful post. does anybody have an idea how i could fix this?
07:32<reval>I was wondering where to find a channel to ask very basic install questions about gentoo, and/or how to do that from a just installed ubuntu.
07:32<cahoot>reval, #gentoo on
07:32<reval>thanks, I'll try it out =)
07:32<_Staz>Speaking of gentoo, who saw this? -->
07:33<larsus>reval: I thought Gentoo was fameous for good documentation?
07:34<reval>larsus: it had good documentation for quite a few things, but it kind of got to the point where there was so much, I couldn't find the answer to my question.
07:34<reval>Larsus: I'm first off going to say that I know I'm not the smartest person, but a day later, I can honestly say I've tried.
07:35<larsus>reval: I understand, thats probably why we got irc :)
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07:36<reval>larsus: basically just going through the installation from an older disc was bad. I'm going to try a newly made liveinstall cd next if I can get the image burnt. But if there were a way to just install it from here without reformatting, etc, or a site to found out how to do that, it would help. I'm hoping making a new install cd will fix my other issues if not though.
07:37<ranix>reval: like debootstrap for debian you mean?
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07:37<reval>ranix: will that work from ubuntu?
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07:38<ranix>reval: I don't know if ubuntu retained debootstrap, but I think it's likely. But, that would give you a new install of ubuntu regardless and you want a different distribution right?
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07:38<WildOS>I just got an oops with the following in the bottom: "Out of memory: Kill process 8132 (MyApp) score 47 or child process. Killed process 8132 (MyApp)" How is this possible when I had 75% of memory allocated to cache and buffers?
07:38<reval>ranix: i just completed the install of ubuntu, the hard disk was messed up from my attempts to install gentoo.
07:38<padski>reval: It will work from other system than debian yes.
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07:39<padski>can you not debootstrap ubuntu ? I would have thought you could ...
07:39<ranix>oh I see. reval: if it retains debootstrap you should use that
07:39<reval>padski: I'll look up debootstrapping
07:39<m_g>anybody? :)
07:39<reval>afk for a minute.
07:39<padski>and if not just download it :-)
07:40<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with or is a guru/expert of [someprogram]. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use [someprogram]?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <sicco> <ask-to-ask> <polls>
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07:40<padski>sorry m_g, no I haven't got a clue
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07:41<lupine_85>padski: you can debootstrap ubuntu
07:41<padski>I'm fairly confused by "system froze" and "when I try to" did you reboot ?
07:41<padski>lupine_85: I thought so
07:41<lupine_85>you can debootstrap etch and lenny from it too :)
07:41<padski>m_g: I'm fairly confused by "system froze" and "when I try to" did you reboot ?
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07:42<m_g>padski, yep, hard reboot
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07:43<padski>m_g: top hit on google:
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07:43<m_g>it doesn't open here
07:44<padski>m_g: think it says reinstall debconf by installing with dpkg. anyone jnow if this is right ?
07:44<m_g>but what's funny is: '?--------- ? ? ? ? ? /var/cache/debconf/config.dat'
07:44<m_g>this is a ls -l /var/cache/debconf
07:44<m_g>should i try to replace it with config.dat-old?
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07:46<padski>m_g: you should be able to just scrub /var/cache and recover without data loss (at least in theory, that theory might be slightly broken, dunno)
07:47<m_g>padski, hm when i remove that /var/cache/debconf i get the same error
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07:48<padski>m_g: me too :-)
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07:49<m_g>padski, thanks anyway, i give up for now :)
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07:49<Tuplad>I saw some screenshots of Linux, and I could see shell output on the desktop with like, stats and stuff.
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07:49<m_g>but idle just in case somebody knows the solution
07:49<padski>m_g: looking at an install in front of me, config.dat-old is barely different to config.dat.old. I think deconf is about the questions you get asked at package install or package reconfigure time
07:50<Tuplad>How is that called ? I want to get the same but I have no idea what to google for
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07:50<m_g>padski, with the old config.dat it printed a whole lot of perl errors
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07:51<padski>m_g: which makes the fact that it stores it's config in /var/cache ... slightly odd. IIRC the argument is that the values are used to prompt you and you would get prompted anyway, or something
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07:52<padski>m_g: I would guess downloading the deb and forcing a reinstall can't screw things any worse than they are :-)
07:52<padski>m_g: would you like me to try it first ? :-)
07:53<m_g>padski, heh you mean reinstalling debconf?
07:53<padski>yeah :-)
07:53<jm_>no that won't help
07:53<padski>jm_: no :-(
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07:54<m_g>do you know what could help jm_?
07:54<jm_>m_g: restoring config.dat from backup ;)
07:54<reval>thanks for the help, I'll read a few things and come back later probably =)
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07:54<m_g>jm_, next idea? ;)
07:55<jm_>m_g: well maybe create an empty file and dpkg-reconfigure everything again
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07:56<m_g>jm_, an empty config.dat and dpkg-reconfigure -a or what it was called?
07:57<jm_>m_g: no, it requires package names as argument
07:57<jm_>ahh no it knows -a too, yeah then it should work
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07:57<m_g>that will take quite some time i guess?
07:57<m_g>and possibly break stuff, right?
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07:58<jm_>yes, you'll be asked a lot of questions - about breaking stuff - it shouldn't
07:58<padski>jm_: ok, I can see why reconfigure all might be a good idea, but dpkg --install debconf does seem to work on thface of it. what will break ?
07:58<jm_>padski: nothing?
07:59<m_g>ok i'l try that later, thanks padski, jm_
07:59<padski>jm_: no, I mean if I just dpkg --install debconf and don't bother to reconfigure all ?
07:59<jm_>padski: you mean with empty debconf database?
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07:59<padski>jm_: yeah
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08:00<jm_>padski: hmm I still think you should be OK
08:00<padski>jm_: ok :-)
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08:01<jm_>maybe it's worth searching for threads where people lost /var and how they recovered, it should mention debconf
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08:02<padski>jm_: I'm fairly sure I've done that one myself somewhere along the way, and that'll be how come I remember so much about it :-)
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08:05<qwe>How to make dhclient NOT to overwrite /etc/resolv.conf?
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08:06<azeem>qwe: configure it through /etc/dhclient.conf
08:06<ranix>Can anyone tell me a good IRC server/channel to discuss spamassassin?
08:06<qwe>azeem: Which option?
08:06<azeem>the dns options, I guess
08:07<qwe>azeem: There are no string "dns" in the example /etc/dhclient.conf which goes with Debian.
08:08<qwe>Maybe "prepend domain-name-servers;"
08:08<azeem>qwe: request domain-name* stuff
08:08<azeem>I'd say
08:09<qwe>azeem: Could you explain in more details?
08:09<azeem>qwe: no, I never tried to configure this myself, I'm just guessing that is what you want
08:10<azeem>if dhclient doesn't request domain-name-servers, it won't overwrite resolv.conf either, I guess
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08:12<jm_>heh 4.0r2 changelog explains the keyrin question of that feller from about 7 hours ago
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08:19<padski>jm_: now there's a 4.0r2 already! :-)
08:20<jm_>padski: yes and it specifically mentions the keyring package (volatile key)
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08:21<padski>jm_: I take it the signatures now test ok, and the key-handling is such that you can be confident that this isn't a result of a compromise ;-)
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08:23<jeremiah>Has anyone installed a debian chroot on a MacIntel?
08:23<jeremiah>Is it doable?
08:23<ranix>it's doable, but I haven't done it
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08:24<jeremiah>I figure it can't be _that_ hard.
08:24<Tuplad>mm, I just installed azureus, started downloading something, put it in tray.. but it didn't appear in tray, it runs in the background but I can not close it :\ what to do ?
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08:24<ranix>Tuplad: ps aux | grep azureus
08:24<witte>Tuplad: if all else fails, read the manual?
08:24<ranix>see if it's open or not
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08:25<jeremiah>witte: That is blasphemous!
08:25<ranix>I think that was rude
08:25<ranix>it's not easy to know what to read to find that answer, imo
08:25<witte>sorry, did not want to be rude,
08:25<cire>hi there, I am just wondering where my system knows which partitions to use for my md0+md1 devices. They are assembled and working, but in mdadm.conf I cannot find any information about the devices which are used. Where does mdadm know?
08:25<jeremiah>I think he was joking. :)
08:25<Tuplad>ranix: vlad 10240 7.3 15.8 571056 123380 ? Sl 14:56 2:05 /usr/bin/gij-4.1 -classpath Azureus2.jar:swt.jar:/usr/share/java/Azureus2.jar:/usr/share/java/swt-gtk-3.2.1.jar org.gudy.azureus2.ui.common.Main
08:25<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
08:26<Tuplad>oh, my bad
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08:26<sander_m>Hello. I have a (probably silly) question: I am running an Etch system here. Can I install the .deb's from sid for kernel 2.6.22? I need mac80211 support. Patching an Etch kernel source didn't work and neither did compiling a "clean" 2.6.22 from
08:26<ranix>Tuplad: if you're unable to recover it, you can kill it outright with the pid
08:26<padski>jm_: which mirror are you seeing it on ?
08:26<gsimmons>cire: IIRC, mdadm scans the available partitions for MD superblocks.
08:26<anfaenger>hello, I use sarge and i upgraded with apt-get upgrade so i cant launch the xserver! can i reset all upgraded packages to come back to the old status?
08:26<xbc>hi, does anybody know, if a "HDAUDIO softV92" modem will work with etch?
08:26<Tuplad>ranix: but I can't find the pid, and pskill never works :\
08:26<witte>sander_m: you can see if the kernel is backported
08:27<jm_>padski: nowhere, I read about it on Debian Times
08:27<witte>!tell sander_m -about backports
08:27<mixter>hi! is the stock kernel in etch compiled with config_ldb?
08:27<ranix>Tuplad: the PID on that process is 10240
08:28<Eulex>mixter, configs are in /boot, check yourself?
08:28<jeremiah>Tupland: The pid is the first number in the column when you do ps aux.
08:28<Tuplad>oh, didn't know that, thanks, lets try
08:28<cire>gsimmons: but I have 2 raid0 arrays consisting each of 2 disks. Where does he know which one to assemble? What if I add another 2 disk with the same size, and also assemble an raid0 array? Then there are 2 arrays consisting of 4 different disks?
08:28<jeremiah>Tupland: So in your case it is 10240
08:28<sander_m>witte: No such luck. The latest is 2.6.21 and mac80211 was introduced in 2.6.22.
08:28<irwiss>xbc; is that what it says in lspci?
08:28<jeremiah>Tupland: No you can do: sudo kill -9 <pid>
08:29|-|mode/#debian [+l 332] by debhelper
08:29<jeremiah>Tupland: Now you can do: sudo kill -9 <pid>
08:29<ranix>Tuplad: FYI, the best torrent application for linux, in my opinion, is bittornado with the Torrentflux frontend
08:29<Tuplad>ranix: will check it out
08:29<ranix>Tuplad: if you aren't enjoying Azureus
08:29<Tuplad>jeremiah: I tried pkill -P 10240
08:29<witte>sander_m: cant you insert this mac80211 as a module?
08:29<Tuplad>jeremiah: sudo kill -9 10240 worked, thanks!
08:30<witte>sander_m: I am not sure what it will give when you just install the 2.6.22 deb file on your machine, it might just work (but then again...)
08:30<ranix>Tuplad: try to not do -9 unless a normal kill doesn't work
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08:30<sander_m>witte: I tried, but I need to rebuild the kernel for that as well. See
08:30<Tuplad>ranix: ok
08:30<anfaenger>any tool to reset the system to an old status?
08:30<jeremiah>Tuplad: Yeah "kill -9" is pretty extreme, but that is why it worked. :)
08:30<Tuplad>what's the -9 for ?
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08:31<ranix>that's which signal to send
08:31<Tuplad>--help doesn't reveal it :)
08:31<jeremiah>man kill
08:31<sander_m>witte: Would it work if I add sed to my souces.list and then simply apt-get build-dep and apt-get source the kernel, then build it myself?
08:31<sander_m>add sid that is, not sed
08:31<jeremiah>Tupland: KILL 9 exit this signal may not be blocked
08:32<mixter>Eulex: ok! didn't know that... thanks!
08:32<gsimmons>cire: You should have existing 'ARRAY' definitions within your /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf file, then (with number of devices, UUID and level).
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08:32<witte>sander_m: not sure, you should check the dependencies of the 2.6.22 kernel for sure
08:32<sander_m>witte: Thanks. I'll have a look then :-)
08:33<padski>jm_: you know I looked at that when that chap turned up. And I looked at
08:33<cire>gsimmons: I have. There stands: DEVICES=2, but not which devices exactly.
08:33<witte>sander_m: but, 2.6.22 is in sid for quite some time, and not in testing yet, so there could be a reason for this?
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08:33<padski>jm_: If there's one thing I hate more than not having any documentation ... :-)
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08:34<ranix>Does anyone here have a mailserver using the SORBS open relay list? Should I block outright if there's a relay on that, or should I only block from SORBS if the machine shows up on more than one list? What kind of confidence do you give it?
08:34<witte>sander_m: this is why:
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08:35<witte>sander_m: i have no idea if this will have consequences on you building it
08:35<jeremiah>ranix: I think I block it outright if it is in sorbs. But this is not going to significantly cut down on spam. Unfortunately.
08:35<padski>ranix: I'm fairly sure I query the SORBS list, but I don't block on that alone. have you considered CBL ?
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08:36<jeremiah>ranix: spamassassin will help, a lot.
08:36<ranix>padski: I'm not familiar with CBL
08:36<padski>ranix: (or one of those spamhaus lists)
08:36<sander_m>witte: Well, I was able to succesfully build 2.6.22 from (though it didn't boot). I'll give it a go
08:37<jeremiah>ranix: also teergubbing, greylisting, and setting acls in exim (if that is what you are using.)
08:37<ranix>I already run spamassassin and I'm blocking outright based on Surriel, spamhaus, and
08:37<ranix>and using Razor giving 51-100% positives a +2 score
08:37<sander_m>witte: BTW: That boot problem is not related to the kernel but to my crappy Dell laptop. Sometimes it refuses to boot the 2.6.18 etch kernel as well. I've tried finding the reason but I can't
08:37<padski>ranix: CBL seems to still have quite a good rep. RBLs all seem to fall into a hole of the operator deciding to get into a fight with yahoo or someone.
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08:38<padski>ranix: how many mailboxes, how much mail/spam ? what sort of users ?
08:38<witte>sander_m: it does not boot the same kernel, or some versions of the same kernel
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08:39<ranix>~80 boxes, medium sized company
08:39<ranix>I'd say we get about 900 spam messages a day delivered to the catch-all mailbox
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08:39<ranix>it's hard to say how many false-negatives to ham
08:39<sander_m>witte: Sometimes the boot fails when using the default Etch kernel. The custom built 2.6.22 failed to boot for the same reason, but always failed. The Etch kernel only fails in about 10% of the boots
08:39<padski>grey-listing, bayes feedback ?
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08:40<ranix>bayes isn't really an option because the interface is pop3
08:40<witte>sander_m: strange, any specific error message?
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08:40<sander_m>witte: None that I can find. It happens before bootlogd starts, around the time that the boot detects the hard drives
08:41<padski>ranix: bayes is worth the effort. I've had pop users send me mbox files of feedback
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08:41<padski>ranix: or get them to use bayes on the desktop
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08:42<ranix>padski: I can't get my users to stop downloading that frigging e-card virus, forget learning how to mail spam back to me. I don't want them to even look at a message if they don't know who sent it
08:42<ranix>padski: I'm dealing with salesmen mostly
08:42<padski>ranix: rofl
08:43<witte>sander_m: I sometimes have trouble booting my laptop due to libata (i think it is libata). Every new version it decides to call my disk /dev/sda, but searches them at /dev/hda in grub (or the other way around, don't exactly remember)
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08:43<ranix>padski: basically spam is being controlled right now and the levels are acceptable, I'm just looking to tighten my stranglehold a little bit because it's interesting
08:43<witte>with "new version" being new kernel version
08:43<ranix>padski: I'm looking up greylisting now
08:44<padski>ranix: once you are on top of the spam, the problem becomes one of accuracy and of optimising resources
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08:44<witte>ranix, the sysadmins here have configered greylisting
08:44|-|soulfly [] has quit []
08:44<witte>ranix: it works quite ok, but sometimes it takes long before you get the email
08:45<padski>ranix: I can't recommend simple blocking on a single RBL for accuracy, but if you choose a good list it does stop a lot of spam.
08:45<witte>ranix: especially google mail seems slow
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08:45<sander_m>witte: As far as I can tell that is not the problem here.
08:45<ranix>witte , padski: yeah that's where I am right now. I just found the whitelists at and that reduced false-positives my a massive amount
08:46<gsimmons>ranix: I've had good results in using the Spamhaus 'ZEN' DNSBL. It's a combined zone of their SBL, PBL and XBL (incorporates CBL). Rejects a fair amount of spam at pre-queue.
08:46<ranix>gsimmons: I'll check that out, thanks
08:46<padski>ranix: you can do things like greylist based on whether a box is on another list, such as dial-up lists.
08:46<ranix>because of the whitelist I have some wiggle room to tighten up again
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08:48<padski>ranix: as witte says, the trade-off with greylisting can be latency, but that's only new correspondence
08:48<fliguy>how do I install kernel headers?
08:48<padski>fliguy: apt-get install linux-headers
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08:49<Zathras>Hi. Is it possible to do some kind of "dry run" on dpkg to check if a package dependencies are met?
08:49<padski>Zathras: --dry-run ?
08:49<fliguy>padski, thanks
08:50<padski>Zathras: better still 'man dpkg'
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08:52<Zathras>hmm. Fail to see option "--dry-run" in 'man dpkg'
08:53<Zathras>I am running Etch
08:53<padski>Zathras: " -no-act | --dry-run | --simulate Do everything which is supposed to be done, but don’t write any changes."
08:54<Zathras>ah. I think I see the problem. I did a 'man dpkg' on an ancient Woody box
08:54<padski>Zathras: but I particularly like "Be sure to give --no-act before the action-parameter ..."
08:56<Zathras>the object is to check it the new nut packages in unstable will work out of the box on Etch
08:57<padski>Zathras: got to say my memory is that the value of this --dry-run is somewhat limited.
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08:58<bighornram>To OGG or FLAC??? Which is better?
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08:59<ranix>ok guys I just installed grylistd and I'm confused
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08:59<padski>ranix: :-)
08:59<cahoot>bighornram, for what intended use?
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09:00<themill>!confuse ranix
09:00<dpkg>No, where was our mushroom today, ranix? trousers of the dictatorship of mongolia with extra herring
09:00<ranix>the first configuiration option is the retryMin
09:00<ranix>"Initial delay before previously unknown triplets are allowed to pass"
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09:00<bighornram>ripping, playing from the saved folder on the machine and reburning.
09:00<ranix>"default is 1 hour = 600 seconds"
09:00<padski>ranix: yup
09:00<ranix>in what universe is 1 hour 600 seconds
09:00<padski>ranix: bit long
09:01<padski>ranix: that too ( 600 != 3600 )
09:01<repair-man>quick question, how can I run updates from the command line? besides just the sources list (apt-get update), the software updates
09:01<bighornram>I might actually like mp4 (acc), my truck will play that and mp3's but the aac sounds better.
09:01<padski>ranix: whereas 12 mins might well be a reasonable deafult
09:01<cahoot>bighornram, flac will give you a lossless copy - 50% smaller then the original cd - perfect for backup purposes
09:01<padski>ranix: or 10
09:02<bighornram>that sounds goo, and it is digital too isn't it?
09:03<cahoot>bighornram, for playing in a car I can't see any reason to waste space with flac - rather ogg then
09:03<witte>repair-man: you mean apt-get upgrade ?
09:03<witte>repair-man: or apt-get dist-upgrade
09:03<themill>ranix: I use 5 minutes and that's enough.
09:03<witte>repair-man: or did i not understand your question
09:03<ranix>ok thanks
09:04<themill>ranix: the problem is normally how long the server takes to retry rather than how long you refuse for.
09:04<padski>themill: and also how long a spammer is willing to retry for
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09:04<ranix>right, thanks themill
09:04<bighornram>is it possible to rip to aac/mp4?
09:04<themill>ranix: but I actually use postgrey (for postfix) and it matches both the server and recipient so that works OK. If it doesn't also match the recipient then you'll need more careful configuration. I don't know what greylistd does.
09:04<marshcast>ffering with streaming and need to know if its the machine or the connection...
09:05<themill>padski: I've never actually seen a spammer retry. ;)
09:05<padski>themill: you haven't been watching :-)
09:06<themill>padski: the only spam that I'm seeing get through postgrey is stuff that has already been to a real MX which will keep retrying for days....
09:06<padski>themill: certainly there is spam coming from system which will retry more or less like a real MX. there have been zombies that would retry for about 10 mins
09:07<Zathras>padski, yes, the --dry-run is complete useless. No complains about libc6 until you try it for real. That option sucks 100%
09:07<padski>themill: or retry just the once
09:07<padski>Zathras: it's probably good for something, I just dont know what it does :-)
09:08<themill>padski: ouch. Maybe I should bump up that limit then before the storm :( Should tell postgrey to keep things for longer than 30 days if I do that though....
09:08<padski>themill: 30 days ?!?!?
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09:09<padski>themill: does anyone retry mail for 30 days ?
09:09<otih>hi, i have problem with ... will go down in near future, because of a namechange, so the mirror will be oh .... could anybody change this?
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09:09<themill>padski: no no no ... it stores the match for 30 days so the client doesn't have to go through the greylist again. It just expires the greylisted data after 30 days
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09:10<themill>padski: but if I'm going to increase the penalty for a miss, I should also increase the size of the cache.
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09:11<padski>themill: ah! yeah ... I can't help thinking there is more could be done with that function. after all can't most people afford to store a lit of their email correspondents ?
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09:12<themill>padski: but it's not just the "From" it's also the server it should come from so as to cope with envelope and header spoofing.
09:12<repair-man>witte: yes apt-get dist-upgrade thank you :_
09:14<themill>repair-man: the recommended tool is aptitude not apt-get these days. Just use it in the same way (aptitude update; aptitude upgrade; aptitude dist-upgrade)
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09:15<padski>themill: that tuple is meant primarily to cover two things: (1) retry of a mail that has been 4xx'ed (2) pass-through of subsequent conversation. There isn't any point is keeping a tuple past the retry unless it actually get delivered as ham. and mail servers don't change all that often.
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09:16<themill>padski: correct. But you still need to keep that tuple for the ham, not just the list of known-good email addresses that the user could supply.
09:16<repair-man>themill: what are the advantages to aptitude over apt-get?
09:16<themill>!why aptitude
09:16<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info
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09:17<padski>themill: if you can use spf and the sender does so, then you'd best look that up at the time.
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09:17<themill>padski: bah... spf is a PITA. I still can't get one of my domains spf compliant as all it does is forward email....
09:17<padski>themill: lol
09:18<padski>themill: it does seem overly-complex, and forwarding ... well that's the grit in the oyster :-) have you considered srs ?
09:19<themill>padski: apparently if I spent a lot of time writing an envelope rewriter and bounce handler I could... but since the domain essentially consists of .forwards (aliases, mostly) it would work.
09:19<themill>padski: I'd have to configure the alias to push into srs for *every* user... geez... yuck
09:20<padski>themill: ohter options include getting included inside of a sending or recieving perimeter.
09:20<themill>except that I'd have to do so for hotmail, gmail, yahoo, ... etc :(
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09:21<padski>themill: so that would put you on the sending side. I take it you can't get include in the sender's records either, because you accounts are those of the users at yahoo, hotmail, ...
09:22<padski>themill: I don't have srs setup myself, but can't you just implement it at the MTA level ?
09:23<themill>padski: not (easily) with postfix it seems. the postfix ppl make my life so much easier for some things but they don't believe in spf.
09:23<padski>themill: lol
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09:25<themill>padski: the problem is that sends an email to which then forwards to So the envelope that goes from reads "" so if were to enforce spf on me then I'd be up shit creek.
09:25<themill>padski: unless I used srs, as you say.
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09:28<padski>themill: I thought I saw something about support going into postfix recently specifically for sender rewriting, and I'm trying to find you the ref.
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09:28<themill>padski: ooo :) that would be very nice indeed.
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09:36<bcochofel>I need a sarge repo, where can I get one?
09:36|-|samoth13 [] has quit []
09:36<dpkg>well, oldstable is the previous stable version of Debian GNU/Linux, currently Sarge (3.1). Previously, Woody. Get old Sarge ISO's here:
09:37[~]JasonS wonders if its still supported mind you
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09:38<bcochofel>JasonS: I only need to repo. I need to install php source on a old machine
09:39<lupine_85>take any etch repo, and replace "etch" with "sarge"?
09:39<padski>themill: not quite what I thought, but maybe usefull:
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09:40<themill>padski: thanks for that... much appreciated
09:41<padski>themill: it was supporting modifying the message body which had made such a big impression on me. but the patch looks small :-)
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09:42<themill>padski: yes... the question is whether to go through patching and repackaging postfix.... years ago I decided it was too much hard work, but now I've been doing some packaging of my own I might entertain the idea... There are few enough postfix security updates that it would be a big on-going job to do it too.
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09:45<flami>hum why would aptitude say :
09:45<flami>The following packages have been kept back:
09:45<flami> linux-image-2.6-686
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09:46<themill>you are installing something not upgrading
09:46<flami>no i ran aptitude upgrade
09:46<themill>what does apt-cache policy linux-image-2.6-686 say?
09:47<themill>it could also be that a dist-upgrade is needed to pull in a dep that an upgrade will not
09:47<padski>themill: like you say, if you're running the debian stable postifx, and you have a tiny patch on it. with the right setup it should be very little more pain than 'apt-get upgrade'. most of the pain is probably in getting there :-)
09:47<flami> Version table:
09:47<flami> 2.6.18+6etch1 0
09:47<flami> 500 etch/main Packages
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09:47<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
09:47<flami>wait did the naming change?
09:48<themill>could you pls pastebin the entire output
09:48<flami>i cant remember haveing sonething like etch<bla> behind any version numbers
09:48<themill>flami: it's a security or point release update
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09:49<flami>I have none of my boxes configured to have recommended updates ( or whats it called again)
09:49<themill>flami: there was or could be a +7 through the normal upload route (sid) so to mark things as being only in etch, they put etchX on the end
09:50<PinkyDW>um, anyone got time to help a noob?
09:50<flami>especially on my sevre ri have no unofficial repos :/ and only etch , im wondering why it wants to mess that way
09:51<themill>padski: yes... picking the right tool to do it... there are a few to choose from. will do some reading
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09:51<themill>flami: that looks fine. It's just a security update to the kernel. See what a dist-upgrade wants to do
09:51<themill>flami: and since etch r1 just released, make sure you do an aptitude update too
09:52<themill>!tell PinkyDW about just ask
09:52<flami>a new etch
09:52<flami>yeah i always do update :P
09:52<PinkyDW>ah, ok, thanks themill
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09:53<flami>it wants to install a new kernel image package
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09:53<flami>The following NEW packages will be automatically installed:
09:53<flami> linux-image-2.6.18-5-686
09:53<flami>Oh i see didnt know about the update
09:53<PinkyDW>I don't have the machine in question nearby but, last night loaded into gnome, got about 7 error messages saying it couldn't connect to a server, or a file was locked. Blackbox still works fine
09:54<flami>... which mailing list woud it be to get informed about that ? :?
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09:55<themill>flami: none have yet (don't know why). debian-announce normally is. /topic too
09:55<flami>im in devel announce ...
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09:57<padski>hmmm "Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 (a.k.a. etch) was released August 15th, 2007."
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09:58<PinkyDW>time paradox?
09:58<padski>and the press release is still the april one :-)
09:58<padski>so ... yes! :-)
09:59<flami>themill, to be honest i dont check the /topic or the website every day just to know when a new update is out :P
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10:02<themill>you're right though d-d-a and d-a are normally both notified. No idea why nothing has gone out yet. (I just happened to note that /topic had a new date on it this morning and so read it and then went looking)
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10:02<padski>perhaps the cat got on the keyboard ;-)
10:03<themill>cat /dev/input/by-path/platform-i8042-serio-0-event-kbd ?
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10:04<padski>cat /dev/release/early ; cat /dev/release/often :-)
10:04<error500>anybody speak russian - need some help but my english not well
10:04<dpkg>i guess ru is Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
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10:08<bcochofel>How can I search a source package name in apt?
10:08<bcochofel>Sorry but I never done that, neither install a source package
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10:09<padski>bcochofel: you mean like apt-cache showsrc mount
10:10<bcochofel>guess so
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10:10<lupine_85>bcochofel: apt-cache show tells you what source package a binary package comes from. |grep Source:
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10:13<padski>bcochofel: and there's always stuff like grep "Source:" /var/lib/dpkg/available
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10:16<padski>"Download complete. You can now disconnect from the internet" :-)
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10:19<padski>I'm after a replacement or a better way of using logcheck ...
10:20<padski>on my wishlist ...
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10:20<padski>a complete enough message catalog that logging the name does not cause a security alert
10:21<padski>a way of presenting and managing new events so that 5000 loglines over 8 hours are still manageable
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10:22<padski>with that last one, perhaps some sort of issue tracking
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10:22<padski>any suggestions ?
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10:23<Maulkin>padski: You know logcheck can use regexes, right?
10:23<padski>Maulkin: sure
10:24<Maulkin>padski: so can't you just ignore ?
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10:24<padski>Maulkin: there are a surprising number of domain names out there with 'attack' or 'terror' etc in them
10:25<padski>Maulkin: what sort of regex would you suggest ?
10:25<padski>attack[a-z]+\.(com|com\.br|pl ....
10:26<padski>actually, that's not so bad ...
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10:26<padski>or something ...
10:27<themill>padski: a regex that matches the rest of the known-good line
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10:28<padski>themill: you have a good point. one of the reasons for preferring a good message catalog, is that syslog will sometimes spit out two loglines on a single line. a message could be lost, perhaps.
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10:29<themill>padski: perhaps match right through to the end of the line then so that case doesn't happen. (I don't believe it should, actually)
10:29<padski>themill: I see it happen. I agree it is a bug.
10:30<themill>actually. don't match for attack ;)
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10:30<themill>what service is saying "attack" and you want to know about it?
10:30<padski>themill: but when you are talking about that kind of security stuff, it is better to be belt and braces anyways :-)
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10:32<padski>themill: it comes out of the box that way, and it makes sense to me. if any bit of software were to log the word "attack" outside of quoting domain names and such-like, you would want to know. the problem is then, for messages you know about, it helps to recognise what is quoted text and supress those kinds of checks.
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10:34<padski>I quite like the approach of picking up the domainname pattern. AFAICR it is always domain names
10:34<Giacomo>I would like to know
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10:34<Giacomo>if there's an online tutorial on how to configure Debian
10:34|-|Aicart [] has joined #debian
10:34<Giacomo>to make it send mail through an external SMTP server
10:34<Giacomo>using the "mail" command
10:35<themill>padski: hmmm... sounds like a pretty odd match to put in. esp since it's a single word. "iptables flags possible attack" or something would be more sensible. But that goes back to the string library you were talking for :)
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10:35<dpkg>A smart host is a type of mail relay server (typically your ISP SMTP server) which allows an SMTP server to route e-mail to an intermediate mail server rather than directly to the recipient’s server.
10:35<padski>themill: there is a short list of them in /etc/logcheck/cracking.d/logcheck
10:36<Giacomo>ehm... I configured exim4 in order to send mail through my ISP's mail relay server
10:36<Giacomo>but it simply does not work.. I mean: no error messages, but mail do not arrive
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10:36<Giacomo>is there any log I've got to read? Where it is located? Thank you a lot
10:36<padski>themill: but only 4 single bare words: ATTACK attack attackalert nested
10:36<themill>Giacomo: does your ISP require authentication? /var/log/mail* and /var/log/exim*
10:37<Giacomo>no authentication needed
10:37<padski>hmm ... dreams of evil plot to grab all the .*nested.*.com domains ...
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10:38<themill>padski: yeah. I truly don't understand that match
10:39<Giacomo>themill: no info in the mainlog file
10:39<Giacomo>themill: it seems OK but no mail arrives
10:40<padski>themill: where there are specific app messages, I've put them in the ignore list. but I never really considered the domainname regex until Maulkin suggested it just now
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10:40<biblio>alguien en español?????
10:40<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
10:40<fxiny>Giacomo: are you sure you configured exim right ? check exim.conf dc_smarthost line
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10:41<Giacomo>I've no exim.conf
10:42<Giacomo>it seems that in /etc/exim4 there are a lot of configurationf iles
10:44<padski>Maulkin: thanks, I can't tell you how long I let that one bug me.
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10:46<Maulkin>padski: heh
10:47<padski>I still have the problem of logcheck being swamped by repeated loglines
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11:12<user>regierung hier
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11:12<user>sorry, happens only one time
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11:22<tolsen>no announce email for 4.0r1 ?
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11:22<padski>surprise me ;-)
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11:25<JasonS>tolsen: when its ready but maybe later
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11:26<tolsen>JasonS, cool. just making sure it wasn't forgotten ;-)
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11:31<pder>i like debian
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11:33<vj>I find example for making new distro for learning. Do you have a link?
11:33|-|skhelos [] has joined #debian
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11:33<dondelelcaro>vj: better to not, actually.
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11:34<dondelelcaro>vj: if you want to learn how distributions work and are made, you're better off contributing to an existing one, like Debian.
11:34<dondelelcaro>(that way you'll not only learn how an established distribution does things, your work will benifit others)
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11:36<lupine_85>"Linux from scratch" would be one place to start :F
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11:36<Tuplad>What is the "Program Files" folder in Linux ? :]
11:37<lupine_85>Tuplad: /usr/bin normally
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11:37<Tuplad>lupine_85: thanks
11:37<lupine_85>user-installed programs that have their own weird filestructure are often put in /opt or ~/opt
11:37<Tuplad>and /etc is like "Application Data" where all the settings being saved etc.
11:37<lupine_85>sort of, ish
11:37<lupine_85>there's /usr/share and ~/* as well
11:38<lupine_85>it's... complicated, and there aren't really 1:1 mappings
11:38<Tuplad>yeah :)
11:38<lupine_85>there's a standard, though. there is a standard.
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11:38<Tuplad>but um, I'm starting to get the same problem as in windows, the rests of deleted programs are there, and they aren't needed
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11:40<pder>has anyone attempted to install debian on a portable computer?
11:40<fxiny>Tuplad: enjoy this : no defrag !
11:40<fxiny>and no folders ! :P
11:40<themill>!tell pder about laptop
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11:40<dondelelcaro>more than install, quite a lot of us run Debian on laptops
11:40<Tuplad>fxiny: hmm ?
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11:40<themill>Tuplad: what do you mean about deleting programs and they're still around?
11:41<Tuplad>fxiny: there are shitloads of unneeded folders tbh :p
11:41<Tuplad>themill: I deleted alot of programs (apt-get remove), but the folders are still there, like with configurations etc.
11:41<fxiny>Tuplad: where ?
11:41<themill>!tell Tuplad about purge
11:41<Tuplad>fxiny: like everywhere, I see centericq, licq, gaim and all the other programs I have been fooling around with
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11:42<Tuplad>themill: whoa, nice one
11:42<dondelelcaro> <-- lots of laptops running Debian
11:42<themill>Tuplad: apt doesn't kill off your config files in /etc unless you ask it to do so. It *can't* get rid of config within your home directory though
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11:42<fxiny>Tuplad: the system does not care too much about your dot files
11:42<themill>but you'll find that they take up almost no space too...
11:43<fxiny>Tuplad: i mean : home dot files/dir
11:43<Tuplad>themill: 323mb ^_^
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11:43<Tuplad>fxiny: those are no probs, can delete them manually :p
11:43<Tuplad>themill: after purging
11:43<lupine_85>Tuplad: oh noes. a third of a gigabyte :p
11:43<lupine_85>that's, like, a whole episode of Dr Who ;)
11:44<themill>Tuplad: look in ~/.thumbnails/ and ~/.local/share/Trash
11:44<themill>no config files are going to be that big
11:45<lupine_85>I dunno. with the rise of XML, they could be... ;)
11:46<themill>lupine_85: yeah, I was ignoring that gconf monstrosity...
11:47<themill>Tuplad: also, if you've been using kmail, then you'll have mail stored under .kde. And iceweasel will cache stuff under .mozilla
11:48<lupine_85>~/.Trash is a bit of a pain too
11:48<dpkg>lupine_85: okay
11:48<themill>dpkg shut up
11:48<dpkg>No, I won't, and you can't make me. :P
11:48[~]lupine_85 scratches his head
11:48<themill>dpkg lies
11:48<dpkg>lies are evil, or as some would put it: "There are three types of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics."
11:48<fxiny>dpgg rulez
11:48<themill>!kill dpkg
11:48[~]dpkg crushes dpkg with a rusty dagger
11:48<themill>heh... bot suicide
11:48<lupine_85>poor bot
11:48<lupine_85>leave 'er alone
11:49<fxiny>dpkg: we love you
11:49<dpkg>Shame, I hate non-bots.
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12:01<cTATUK>Does anyone understand why that is happening?
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12:01<Tuplad>that purge wasn't so good after all
12:02<Tuplad>it removed kde completly
12:02<Tuplad>linux is dangerous :\
12:02<lupine_85>nice job
12:02<Tuplad>it doesn't like me
12:02<lupine_85>good job you made a backup first, right.
12:02<fxiny>left left
12:02<Tuplad>I just installed kde back again :\
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12:02<Tuplad>and everything works fine
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12:02<padski>cTATUK: /msg dpkg no public key
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12:03<cTATUK>I'm not getting a message about "There are no public keys available".
12:03<lupine_85>are you using debian official repos?
12:03<Tuplad>me ?
12:04<lupine_85>(apt-cache policy is your friend)
12:04<lupine_85>no, cTATUK
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12:05<cTATUK>This is my /etc/apt/sources.list:
12:05<padski>cTATUK: apt-key list
12:05<cTATUK>lupine_85: "no" what? ... I didn't ask you a follow-up question.
12:06<Tuplad>cTATUK: that was for me :)
12:06<Tuplad>cTATUK: he told me that he was talking to you
12:06<fxiny>traffic jam
12:06<padski>cTATUK: I have 1024D/6070D3A1 and 1024D/ADB11277 for etch (I haven't done that 4.0r1 upgrade yet, but that's supposed to be volatile"
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12:06<padski>fxiny: lol
12:06<fxiny>padski: :)
12:06<themill>cTATUK: apt-get install debian-archive-keyring debian-multimedia-keyring && apt-get update
12:07<cTATUK>I believe I already have the multimedia keyring package installed.
12:07<cTATUK>And if the package name has changed then wouldn't it be wise to first purge the original?
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12:07<cTATUK>padski: Volatile howso?
12:08<fenix>tengo un problema con desinger-qt3 cada vez que lo abro me cierra la sesion
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12:08<cTATUK>/join #Debian-Es
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12:09<fenix> /join #Debian-Es
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12:09<padski>cTATUK: you have the same three keys as me for etch.
12:10<cTATUK>All of a sudden, there are 27 updates available.
12:10<padski>cTATUK: if you just download the package where does it get it from
12:10<padski>cTATUK: yes, it appears that r1 was released
12:10<fxiny>volatile ?
12:10<cTATUK>padski: Within the last two minutes? Heh.
12:11<padski>fxiny: I think jm_ said the key update was for volatile. yes, it's inthe notes. I remember
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12:11<padski>cTATUK: it's been turning up on the mirrors all day :-)
12:11<cTATUK>Also, Debian.Org says nothing about 4.0r1.
12:12<fenix>I have a problem, qt3 whenever I open it closes the session
12:12<fxiny>padski: i've done long ago it as : gpg --keyserver --recv-keys EC61E0B0BBE55AB3 , is it changed ?
12:12<fenix>somebody can help me with this
12:12<samoth13>can you tel me if I need to connect with the protocol UDP for conneting to IRC? because when i start iptables I can' t connect to IRC? please
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12:12<padski>fxiny: dunno, have a look :-)
12:13<cTATUK>padski: So you think that if I do an "aptitude update && aptitude upgrade" that next time I try installing nmap it won't complain that it's untrusted...?
12:13<padski>cTATUK: no, I installed nmapfe and it didn't complain. mind you I already have nmap installed. could it be coming from marillat ?
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12:14<cTATUK>marillat, aka multimedia?
12:14<fenix>I have installed kde and gnome, this program to me even continues closing the session
12:14<cTATUK>padski: Why would they be redistributing nmap?
12:14<fxiny>yes , the Saint
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12:14<cTATUK>padski: No, I don't have nmap installed already.
12:15<fxiny>no ?
12:15<cTATUK>!moron fxiny
12:15<dpkg>fxiny: You are moron #80
12:15<fxiny>i do the acid nerd test : what about screen ?
12:15<samoth13>can you tel me if i need to open UDP and TCP ports for connect to IRC
12:15|-|arcil_ [] has joined #debian
12:15<fxiny>dpkg: ok , you rulez
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12:16<padski>cTATUK: sorry, I gotta take off. good luck with it!
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12:16<phrosty>is there a way to clear the page cache
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12:17<NotLim>hi, someone knows why debian lenny i386 doesn't detect all my ram memory? i have 4 GB, and detects 900 MB :S
12:17<JasonS>good lord 4g wow
12:17<fxiny>a big mem kernel ?
12:17<samoth13>its an answere so stupid???
12:18<cTATUK>samoth13: TCP
12:18<NotLim>what i have to do to increase the size?
12:18<JasonS>high mem kernel?
12:18<samoth13>thanks very much
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12:18<cTATUK>NotLim: Install the 686 kernel instead of the 484.
12:19<NotLim>ok :D
12:19<NotLim>and, how do i do that? i'm not so advanced
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12:19<cTATUK>aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686
12:19<fxiny>a 686 is not enough
12:20<cTATUK>Who the fuck are you talking to?
12:20<NotLim>ehm... fxiny
12:20|-|Swampratt [] has joined #debian
12:20<NotLim>says "is not enough"
12:20<cTATUK>I saw what he said.
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12:21<fxiny>NotLim: search and grep grep for bigmem
12:22<fxiny>easy life
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12:23<berto> :-D
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12:23<fxiny>moronize yourself doodle
12:24<cTATUK>!moron fxiny
12:24<dpkg>fxiny: You are moron #92
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12:25<fxiny>!fetora cTATUK
12:25<fxiny>no ?
12:25<fxiny>strange ;)
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12:29<cTATUK>!no public key
12:29<dpkg>Seeing "There are no public keys available"? This means that the Release file has been signed by a key which you do not have. If it's signed by another key which you do have, you can ignore the warning. Otherwise, you can add the key listed *AFTER* checking the validity of the signatures on the key. Ask me about <2006 key> or <etch key> for more details.
12:30<cTATUK>etch key
12:30<cTATUK>!etch key
12:30<dpkg># apt-get install debian-archive-keyring && apt-get update
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12:30<cTATUK>!F1D53D8C4F368D5D key
12:31|-|safasfsa [] has quit []
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12:31<cTATUK>!key F1D53D8C4F368D5D
12:31<cTATUK>!no public key F1D53D8C4F368D5D
12:31<Supaplex>!+listkeys F1D53D8C4F368D5D
12:31<dpkg>Factoid search of 'F1D53D8C4F368D5D' by key returned no results.
12:31<Supaplex>!+listvals F1D53D8C4F368D5D
12:31<dpkg>Factoid search of 'F1D53D8C4F368D5D' by value returned no results.
12:32<cTATUK>W: GPG error: stable/non-US Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY F1D53D8C4F368D5D
12:33<fxiny>non us ?
12:33<Supaplex>!apt-key F1D53D8C4F368D5D
12:33<dpkg>gpg --keyserver --recv-keys F1D53D8C4F368D5D ; gpg --export F1D53D8C4F368D5D | sudo apt-key add -
12:33<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: there's no reason to use the non-US repository
12:33<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: so just remove it from your sources.list
12:34<Supaplex>amazing the hostname is still available :)
12:34<cTATUK>dondelelcaro: Then why is it listed here: ?
12:35<cTATUK>And when you read that URL please stress the domain and file names.
12:36|-|debgod [] has joined #debian
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12:36<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: probably because it hasn't been updated since non-US went away.
12:36<cTATUK>'Went away'...?
12:36<dondelelcaro>I mean, the last update was in August 2005; who knows when it was first written.
12:36<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, non-us is where we put software that cannot be distributed from the USA. For woody, use "deb woody/non-US main contrib non-free" in sources.list, and deb-src if you want sources. Changes in legislation mean that post-Woody, there is no non-us, so you don't need it for Sarge, Etch or Sid. Ask me about "crypto". for the few remaining packages, see ...
12:36<fxiny>host says : does not exist, try again
12:36<Supaplex>fxiny: try host
12:37<fxiny>Supaplex: ding !
12:37<cTATUK>!moron fxiny
12:37<dpkg>fxiny: You are moron #11
12:37<fxiny>you are like simon444/888
12:37|-|aderlancosta [~aderlanco@] has joined #debian
12:38<fxiny>11 ? i'm a top moron then !
12:38[~]Tuplad sighs.
12:38<fxiny>who is nummer one ?
12:39<fxiny>c* reminds me some nick ...
12:40<cTATUK>Tuplad: Do you know why linux-image-2.6-686 is being held back when I try to upgrade, and/or how I can force it to pass-through?
12:40<Tuplad>cTATUK: This is my second Debian day full of crashes - I'm the wrong person to ask :]
12:40<fxiny>there is a kernel fix comoing maybe
12:40<fxiny>i read a dsa today
12:40<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: you just need to run the aptitude curses front end, hit +, and see what is broken, and fix it.
12:41<fxiny>Tuplad: answer him at will :)
12:41<cTATUK>dondelelcaro: Hit + on the main screen?
12:41<fxiny>cTATUK: :P
12:42<cTATUK>!moron fxiny
12:42<dpkg>fxiny: You are moron #37
12:42|-|grendelson [] has joined #debian
12:42<fxiny>fine , 37 is somehow leet
12:42<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: when you've updated, seleect linux-image-2.6, hit enter, then hit + on the version you want to ugprade to. Use /~b to go through fixing any broken packages.
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12:43<cTATUK>Where exactly do I find linux-image-2.6? ... I've never used the ncurses interface.
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12:43<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: ? for help, / to search.
12:43<grendelson>Hey I'm just missing the site with the info. How do I get iceweasel to run java apps. I have SUn java 1.5.0_10 installed and Use Java selected in Iceweaseklr but can't run ANY java apps in browser. I try the test site as sun...
12:44<grendelson>is this not working or do I need manual link in plugin folder?
12:44<jmuralie>any body has info regarding web server related irc
12:44<dpkg>Java is Sun's cross-platform OO language. Sun partially released java as GPL on Nov 13, 2006 (rest expected to be released in 2007). There are other implentations available in Debian such as 'free-java-sdk' for use with applications like Eclipse. The Sun JRE/JDK is in non-free. Also, ask about <install java>, <non-free>.
12:47<cTATUK>dondelelcaro: When you say "/~b" do you mean to use the ncurses interface to search for "~b"?
12:47|-|leoncamel [] has joined #debian
12:47<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: yes.
12:47<cTATUK>There are no results, so I don't understand why linux was marked to be held back in the first place.
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12:48<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: what were you using to upgrade? If just aptitude upgrade; sometimes it doesn't upgrade all packages because it requires others to be removed. If you use the curses interface, it tends to be rather more foreceful.
12:48<cTATUK>..yes I'm using "aptitude upgrade".
12:49|-|mode/#debian [+l 331] by debhelper
12:49<djmachado_>grendelson: what directory have you instaled your java plugin?
12:49<dondelelcaro>well, full-upgrade; is the one that probably would have installed it.
12:49<grendelson>djmachado_, I havent
12:49<grendelson>Not sure what I was supposed to do at that point...
12:49<djmachado_>wait a second
12:49<grendelson>Is it a matter of copying file to correctt plugin ocation?
12:50<grendelson>Or creating link I suppose
12:50<djmachado_>yes it is
12:50<djmachado_>i had a similar problem
12:50<cTATUK>dondelelcaro: Unknown command "full-upgrade" (aptitude 0.4.4)
12:50<fxiny>i see DSA 1356-1 but no new 1-13etc
12:50|-|Ember [] has joined #debian
12:51<grendelson>oops - looks like I didnt isntall sun-java5-plugin I'm guessing that is the plugin?
12:51<fxiny>could it be that reason ?
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12:51<djmachado_>once installed you need to activate it
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12:52<dondelelcaro>cTATUK: it's dist-upgrade in that version.
12:52|-|Ember [] has quit []
12:52<grendelson>djmachado_, Yeah I jsut tried to install and got an erroo on installation - no plugin file found...
12:52|-|Ten [] has quit []
12:52<jamesuk>What the best way to deny smtp relay in exim4 if the user has not authenticated over tls?
12:52<grendelson>/etc/alternatives/ No such file or directory
12:52<djmachado_>that's it
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12:53<djmachado_>so all you have to do is just install it
12:53<cTATUK>dondelelcaro: Heh, that gets it. I knew that testing uses "safe-upgrade" but I never heard of "full-upgrade"... must be in unstable.
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12:54<djmachado_>BTW when you finish it..maybe you'll need to create a sym link
12:54<cTATUK>!moron fxiny
12:54<dpkg>fxiny: You are moron #62
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12:54<grendelson>Ahh OK isee - -> /usr/lib/j2re1.4-sun/plugin/i386/ns610-gcc32/
12:54<grendelson>That is definetly wrong...
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12:55<fxiny>sweet sweet : with all this moron badges on i feel like a soviet general
12:56<djmachado_>ok i'm leaving
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12:56<Tuplad>So many programs in the apt-get are out of date :\
12:57<Tuplad>like, VERY VERY out of date
12:57<fxiny>old wine tastes better
12:57<JasonS>Tuplad: im guessing your running stable then if your complaining about out of date packages?
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12:58<grendelson>djmachado_, OK I see it now i searched for alll ALternatives files that were pointed to the old 1.4 and they were the ,ozilla, firefox and netscape plugins!
12:58<fxiny>Tuplad: look at my swatch version : Installed: 3.0.4-1
12:58<grendelson>When I tried to install sun java plugin it failed since file not found...
12:58<Tuplad>JasonS: stable programs or debian ?
12:58<grendelson>I will manually move symlinks and see what that does...
12:58<JasonS>Tuplad: debian
12:58<Tuplad>JasonS: 4.0
12:58<djmachado_>ok then
12:58<djmachado_>see ya
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12:58<JasonS>Tuplad: stable it is
12:59<Tuplad>JasonS: yep
12:59<Tuplad>JasonS: but take a look at wine, like 15 verions out of date :D
12:59<JasonS>so? we all know how the release cycle works in debian :)
12:59<fxiny>wine ? 3 years old : Installed: 0.0.20041019-1
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13:00<samoth13>ca marche pas...
13:00|-|buzztracker [] has joined #debian
13:00<Supaplex>Tuplad: wine is releasing new versions every two weeks
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13:00<Supaplex>Tuplad: if you want, you can use their deb repo
13:00<Tuplad>But wine is just 1 of them, what good is it to use out of date programs ? :]
13:01<JasonS>Tuplad: theyre not out of date,theyre stable if you want newer have you looked into backports?
13:01<suiside>Tuplad: if you want bleeding edge move to testing or unstable, but don't come crying when things break and you can't figure it out on your own
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13:02<Tuplad>suiside: no no, that's not what I mean. there is the STABLE software that is already out there, but not on the apt-get
13:02<deephay>hi all, could some body help me with this?
13:02<Tuplad>!define backports
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13:02<dpkg>hmm... is an unofficial repository of backports for the current stable distribution, prepared by Debian developers. Read ask me about <backports>
13:02<deephay>my boot partition was erased
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13:03<fxiny>some old versions are better then new one : configs options and so on
13:04<fxiny>dor example i run a buggy mrxvt sarge version because i want to keep my own settings
13:04|-|foo [] has joined #debian
13:04<fxiny>is a matter of freedom
13:05<foo>how do i enable flow-control for my eth0?
13:05|-|foo changed nick to Guest930
13:05<Tuplad>bah, all so complex :] going to take a brake
13:05|-|Guest930 changed nick to flow-control
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13:05<Supaplex>Tuplad: there's a dichotomy between new software, and stable software. new software has bugs (I should know, I make new bugs all the time). stable forces a code freeze to weed out bugs. if you don't like how long it takes, start helping. Your other alternative is to use testing and tell us when stuff is broken (or if you're skilled, sid - but you're on your own for fixes)
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13:06<fxiny>swatch is another one : i am too lazy to change some config
13:08<fxiny>they all works fine on etch . i'm quite happy .
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13:14<morje>anyone knows how to set things so i can enter luks passphrase via sshd?
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13:19<alexandre>how cani install cc in debian etch?
13:20<azeem>apt-get install build-essential
13:20<knix>morje: ?
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13:21<morje>i installed etch version and used encryption that installer offered
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13:22<morje>when i boot i have to type in the luks passphrase
13:22<morje>can that be set so i can do it via sshd
13:22<dkr>morje: hook up a serial console to a nearby machine adn ssh to that one and run minicom to access console? :)
13:22<Metalqga>did you vote in the desktoplinux poll?
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13:24<Supaplex>morje: or screen /dev/ttySx
13:24<azeem>morje: isn't that very early in the boot process? I doubt that'd work
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13:26<morje>yeah, that's why i wonder if i could somehow get sshd running before it
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13:29<tycale>I delete my /sbin/shutdown :X
13:29|-|debgod [] has joined #debian
13:29<tycale>A Debian 64bits user can send his /sbin/shutdown ?
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13:30<Supaplex>tycale: dpkg -S /sbin/shutdown says sysvinit, so apt-get install --reinstall sysvinit
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13:32<Piet>it happens quite often to me that a changelog file is not available on
13:32<Piet>is there some other easy way to inspect the changelog before installing the package?
13:32<tycale>Supaplex: Thanks you :)
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13:38<samoth13>wich one can explain me why my iptables rules are not ok, i can't connect to irc i have iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p udp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT iptables -A OUTPUT -o eth0 -p udp --sport 53 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 6667 -j ACCEPT iptables -A OUTPUT -o eth0 -p tcp --sport 6667 -j ACCEPT???
13:38<samoth13>but it's not correct and i don't know why help me please
13:39<Ember>use iptraf
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13:39<Maulkin>Can you pastebin that somewhere with the linebreaks?
13:39<samoth13>what is iptraf???
13:39<Maulkin>I suspect your --sport 53 is wrong
13:40<Ember>a program that shows your tcp connections
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13:41<samoth13>why Maulkin.
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13:43<Supaplex>samoth13: are you binding to --sport on OUTPUT? maybe you mean --dport
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13:44<samoth13>ok thanks i try
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13:50<deleted>hey, what's the easiest way to get a hostname from an IP?
13:50<petemc>dig -x
13:50<petemc>that wont always work, it will get the ptr record if there is one
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13:51<deleted>hmm... don't have dig and apt-get can't find it
13:51<samoth13>thanks very very much and i have seen who i don' t understand a lot of things in iptables...thanks...
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13:52<deleted>petemc: got it. awesome! thanks.
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13:58<jmuralie>hey anybody can suggest me a statistics software for scatter plot or similar to SPSS package
13:58|-|deavid [] has joined #debian
13:59<witte>jmuralie: octave maybe
13:59|-|Swissgent [] has joined #debian
13:59<deleted>jmuralie: R
13:59<jmuralie>thank you I will explore octave
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13:59<jmuralie>R is not with gui
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14:00<deleted>jmuralie: i don't believe octave comes with one either
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14:01<deleted>jmuralie: but R can make a badass scatter plot quickly
14:01<deleted>from a large set of data
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14:02<witte>jmuralie: octave is also command line
14:02<witte>jmuralie: but if you know matlab, you know octave...
14:03<jmuralie>i will be back in a second
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14:03<Supaplex>jmuralie: time's up. ;)
14:03<witte>jmuralie: if you just want a scatter plot, you can also use gnumeric or ooffice calc
14:04<witte>jmuralie: lots of alternatives, but i have to go cu
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14:05<petemc>spss runs in wine
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14:08<jmuralie>petemc; thanks but i do not have spss on me
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14:09<jmuralie>i was working with that earlier in windows
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14:09<jmuralie>so I was familiar with that
14:10<jmuralie>i do not how hard in matlab to learn
14:10<jmuralie>i have to explore it
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14:10<jmuralie>thanks anyway I will be back here soon bye
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14:30<bikedude880>Got a problem configuring my wifi and ethernet card to work with a 2wire router. It works fine with any other router except this one.
14:31<dondelelcaro>bikedude880: what's the prpoblem with it?
14:31<bikedude880>The device gets an IP address from the ruter via DHCP, but I cannot ping any other devices on the network (internal and external)
14:32<bikedude880>This is the only computer that is having an issue
14:32|-|deleted [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:32<dondelelcaro>bikedude880: how are you connecting to the network? what does route -n; and ifconfig; look like when this happens?
14:33[~]Supaplex wonders what tcpdump or even arp has to say
14:33<bikedude880>route -n shows me a correct routing table (correct gateway/destination)
14:33<bikedude880>ifconfig shows a properly configured device
14:34|-|themill [~stuart@] has joined #debian
14:34<Supaplex>any firewalling?
14:34|-|new2debian [] has joined #debian
14:36<dondelelcaro>bikedude880: actually showing us the output would be useful.
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14:38<tycale>How can I cllean my DDR memory ?
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14:40<kevc>soap and water?
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14:40<Giacomo>hi, is there any way in "top" I can scroll the process list?
14:40<alexandre>im compling ucspi... buyt theres a ero collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
14:40<alexandre>make ** tcpserver erro 1
14:40<azeem>alexandre: that's not the real error
14:41<azeem>it just says that there was an error earlier
14:41<bikedude880>route -n:
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14:43<Giacomo>hi, is there any way in "top" I can scroll the process list?
14:44|-|cahoot [~radix@] has joined #debian
14:44<tycale>How clean my ram ? Oo ! Eclipse bug and when i try to lauch it, it take all DDR and swap... It's hard to speak to you with these conditions ! Help me !
14:46[~]Ember .
14:46|-|mikkelorz [] has joined #debian
14:46<azeem>Ember: do you have a Debian question?
14:46<Ember>sorry i'm just testing my xchat plugin
14:46<azeem>please test it elsewhere, then
14:46<Ember>where can i test it?
14:46<Ember>im new to IRC
14:46<azeem>any other channel than #debian?
14:46<azeem>try /join #Ember-test
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14:47<Ember>bye here
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14:49<bikedude880>eth0 is my wireless device
14:51<Giacomo>> hi, is there any way in "top" I can scroll the process list?
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14:52<GhostlyDeath>For my synaptics touch pad, is there any way to move the vertical scroll zone more to the right?
14:53<Giacomo>please help me
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14:53[~]vastinfest but then again what is the point to continue..
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14:55[~]bikedude880 hopes he didn't waste his time typing out the results of the commands...
14:56<mikkelorz>bikedude880: whats the problem?
14:57<bikedude880>[12:30] <bikedude880> Got a problem configuring my wifi and ethernet card to work with a 2wire router. It works fine with any other router except this one.
14:57|-|[EdD]insomnia [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:57<mikkelorz>i see.. dunno about the router.. never heard of the brand.. whats the setup on it?
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14:58<Giacomo>i, is there any way in "top" I can scroll the process list?
14:58<mikkelorz>Giacomo: i use ksysguard or htop :)
14:58<bikedude880>2wire is distributed by AT&T for home DSL use
14:58<mikkelorz>it's not an answer i know.. but it works :]
14:58<Giacomo>mikkelorz: nice
14:59<bikedude880>It's a wireless router with WEP encryption as default
14:59<Giacomo>works like a charm
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14:59<mikkelorz>bikedude880: does it have a log output?
15:00<bikedude880>There are about 14 other computers using it just fine
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15:00<bikedude880>The network card?
15:00<mikkelorz>bikedude880: the ap :)
15:00<bikedude880>Wouldn't know where to look for it if it did.
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15:01<mikkelorz>bikedude880: i see.. well that complicates things a bit.
15:01<bikedude880>One se
15:01<mikkelorz>looking at the ifconfig i cant see any problems.
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15:01<Giacomo>thank you mikkelorx
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15:01<mikkelorz>Giacomo: youre welcome
15:01<bikedude880>That's interesting...
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15:02<bikedude880>The wifi card keeps connecting and disconnecting
15:02<mikkelorz>bikedude880: its intentional with the x'ses in the hwadrr right?
15:02<bikedude880>mikkelorz: Yeah
15:03<mikkelorz>bikedude880: well i've heard about certain ap's not being fond of linux..
15:03<bikedude880>Aug 16 12:55:39 localhost kernel: eth0: New link status: Disconnected (0002)
15:03|-|nomadium [~miguel@] has joined #debian
15:03<bikedude880>Aug 16 12:55:40 localhost kernel: eth0: New link status: Connected (0001)
15:03<mikkelorz>then it retries and gets kicked off yes
15:03<mikkelorz>think its the ap
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15:03<bikedude880>The problem is that I've used it before perfectly with the same rig :P
15:04<mikkelorz>well thats really weird then
15:04<mikkelorz>no clue.. sorry m8
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15:04<bikedude880>Yeah, the router isn't showing me as connected
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15:08<bob_>anyone have any problems getting the non-free flash plugin to play audio in iceweasel? (yes... i already tried tweaking it to aoss)
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15:11<padski>why does lilo change the volume id ?
15:11|-|astral [] has joined #debian
15:11<padski>and what does grub error 22 mean :-)
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15:12<Giacomo>I've downloaded a script that automatically backups mysql data
15:12|-|george_007 [] has joined #debian
15:12<Giacomo>to a simple .sql file
15:12<Giacomo>now I would like to extend that script
15:13<Giacomo>so that the .sql file is automatically e-mailed to me
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15:13<bikedude880>modify it to use sendmail
15:13<padski>I have three copies of my mbr. the current one and two backups. they all have different volume ids. which one should I use ? :-)
15:13<Giacomo>ok I see
15:13<Giacomo>I don't want to bother you
15:13<bikedude880>That should be the easiest way (correct me if Im wrong)
15:13<Giacomo>tell me if there's a tutorial
15:14<Giacomo>which helps me configuring an MTA (???)
15:14<Giacomo>to send mail throughout an external SMTP server requiring authentication (quite hard)
15:14<bikedude880>What type of script is it? (shell, perl, etc)
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15:17<Giacomo>I'm seriously thinking of using PHPMailer
15:17<Giacomo>because I really don't understand exim stuff
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15:30<padski>why does lilo want to change the volume id ?
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15:36<deboch>hello everybody
15:37<deboch>i have a little problem with my connection
15:37<deboch>i can connect every application to internet
15:37|-|nico971 [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
15:37<deboch>but not the web applications
15:38<padski>deboch, what do they say ?
15:38|-|baloo [] has joined #debian
15:38<deboch>when i lanch w3m or iceweasel they don't work
15:38<deboch>they just wait and ... no result
15:38<padski>be more specific, what error do they give
15:38<deboch>in w3m : the message is : can't load (for example)
15:38|-|legrand [] has joined #debian
15:39<deboch>my internet interface is properly set
15:39<padski>did you try wget ? are you behind a firewall ?
15:39<deboch>i can listen to streaming music
15:39<deboch>from somafm !
15:39<deboch>and i can chat with you now !!!
15:39<padski>try wget, might make another interesting test
15:39<deboch>but i can't view any website :(
15:39<deboch>why ??
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15:40<deboch>no result !!
15:40<deboch>Connexion vers||:80...
15:40<deboch>but no result
15:40<padski>deboch, best guess would be firewall, or something similar. but we can take it to peices a bit at a time ...
15:40<deboch>it seams that the port 80 is closed !!!
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15:41<deboch>padski : what should i do ?
15:41<deboch>i'm connected via a modem !!
15:41<padski>we're going to try a webserver serving on another port
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15:41<deboch>how ?
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15:42<padski>deboch, I'll message you this one personally
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15:43<deboch>in private message ?
15:43|-|fouze [] has quit []
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15:45<deboch>padski : ??
15:46<padski>any joy ?
15:46<deboch>padski : what should i do ?
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15:47<padski>it's just a url. I don't want to shout that one out in public is all.
15:47<deboch>padski : but i didn't recieve your private message
15:47<padski>oh! lol I think I sent it to someone called try :-)
15:48<deboch>ok !
15:48<padski>deboch, so you can see that yeah ?
15:48<deboch> padski : yeah !
15:49|-|mode/#debian [+l 325] by debhelper
15:49<deboch> padski : what's happened to the 80 port ?
15:49<padski>so it's something to do with your traffic being on port 80
15:49<padski>what sort of network do you have ?
15:49<deboch>padski : what exactly ?
15:49<padski>you say you are on a modem yeah ?
15:50<deboch>i'm connected via a modem
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15:51<padski>I've seen setups with ISPs where you are supposed to authenticate (password or whatever) and if that fails you can only see thier web-servers, and sometimes they don't get the networking quite right and you can still get out
15:51<padski>can you see your ISPs web pages ?
15:51<padski>and do you have any kind of web proxy, like say squid
15:52<padski>do you have a firewall ?
15:52<deboch>just yesterday
15:52<deboch>i was connected !
15:52<deboch>today not
15:52<deboch>why ??
15:53<padski>try these urls for me ...
15:53<fatal_>position of the moon?
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15:54<deboch>padski : which urls ??
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15:55<padski>deboch, sorry, back inna mo
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15:55<deboch>padski : ok
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15:57<padski>deboch, could you try the same address again, but without the :81
15:58<padski>done ?
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16:01<padski>deboch ?
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16:02<padski>back in 5
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16:04<mc74x>alguien que me pueda ayudar
16:04<mc74x>r etch/updates/main Sources
16:04<mc74x> El subproceso gzip devolvió un código de error (1)
16:04<mc74x>esto me aparece
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16:04<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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16:12<deboch>i tried a restart
16:12<deboch>the same problem is there
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16:14<brislingf>i need some help with postfix pop3,, i can telnet it on localhost, but not from the network, what have i missed ?
16:14<deboch>i can't connect to web pages
16:15<deboch>all other applicaions are connected to internet !!
16:15<deboch>any help !!
16:15<ranix>is google down?
16:15<ranix>that happened to me last time Google went down
16:15<ranix>I thought I had no internet
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16:16<RelDrgn>brislingf: sounds like a firewall issue, check iptables? Also check /etc/hosts.allow|deny, maybe it's blocking on .deny?
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16:19|-|mode/#debian [+l 318] by debhelper
16:19<brislingf>2 sec.. how do i check iptables
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16:21<brislingf>hosts.allow|deny is blank or all er # out
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16:24<deboch>my 80 port is blocked !
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16:24<wiredoptix>can someone help me with this etch bug? my mouse goes into the 4 arrows and i have to end up restarting X everytime. is it something with GDM?
16:24<padski>deboch, still !
16:24<deboch>ranix : not google
16:25<deboch>padski yes
16:25<deboch>i can't connet to any web page !!
16:25<padski>deboch, iptables -L
16:26<deboch>padski : i can't pastebin ;-)
16:26<padski>is it empty ?
16:27<padski>output chain has rules ?
16:27<RelDrgn>does everything else work?
16:27<RelDrgn>can you go to an SSL website?
16:27<deboch><RelDrgn> : all but not web pages
16:28|-|entuall [] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
16:29<RelDrgn>what happens when you try? Does it just time out or do you immediately get an error? If it just times out, then you need to check your rules to make sure you're not blocking outgoing connections (look in OUTPUT) or incoming connections
16:29<RelDrgn>err sorry, incoming packets on existing connections, I mean
16:30<deboch>Chain INPUT (policy DROP)
16:30<deboch>target prot opt source destination
16:30<deboch>ACCEPT 0 -- anywhere anywhere
16:30<deboch>LOG 0 -- loopback/8 anywhere LOG level warning
16:30|-|deboch kicked [#debian] debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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16:30<padski>yeah, we were going to test whether I saw your packets attempting to connect
16:30<deboch>DROP 0 -- loopback/8 anywhere
16:30<deboch>ACCEPT 0 -- anywhere
16:30<deboch>ACCEPT 0 -- anywhere
16:30<deboch>ACCEPT !tcp -- anywhere BASE-ADDRESS.MCAST.NET/4
16:30<deboch>LOG 0 -- anywhere LOG level warning
16:30<deboch>DROP 0 -- anywhere
16:30<deboch>ACCEPT 0 -- anywhere
16:30<deboch>ACCEPT 0 -- anywhere
16:30<deboch>LOG 0 -- anywhere anywhere LOG level warning
16:30|-|mode/#debian [+o Maulkin] by ChanServ
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16:30|-|mode/#debian [+q *!*] by Maulkin
16:30|-|mode/#debian [-o Maulkin] by Maulkin
16:31<Maulkin>deboch: please use a paster
16:31<dpkg>paster is your friendly Debian pastebot. Visit to have paster paste your results. Ask me about <pastebin> if you want to use another site.
16:31<padski>Maulkin, his port 80 is blocked :-)
16:31<piper>he can'
16:31|-|mode/#debian [+o Maulkin] by ChanServ
16:31|-|mode/#debian [-q *!*] by Maulkin
16:31<@Maulkin>Then use #flood
16:31|-|mode/#debian [-o Maulkin] by Maulkin
16:31<deboch>Maulkin : ok
16:31<Maulkin>deboch: thanks
16:32<deboch>Maulkin : np
16:33<deboch>padski : so ?
16:34<padski>funny thing is, I don't usually read in that format, but in the format from iptable-save ...
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16:34<padski>what is prot 0 ?
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16:35<padski>is that any ?
16:35|-|yggdrasil [] has quit []
16:35<RelDrgn>deboch: ... your first policy in all of the chains is to accept all IP connections from anywhere to anywhere, so none of the rest of the stuff even matters
16:35<RelDrgn>padski: it's IP, so everything that would have anything to do with http ;)
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16:36<RelDrgn>deboch: you aren't using any tunneling stuff, are you? No ipsec, l2tp, gre, 6 over 4, or anything like that?
16:36<padski>deboch, can I get you to paste the output of iptables-save, and (more importantly) do you know how you come to have this firewall ?
16:36<deboch>i'm using ipmasq !
16:37<deboch>i'm sharing internet connection!
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16:37<RelDrgn>deboch: turned on /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward ?
16:38<padski>and this ipmasq package knows about iptables, (just the term Masquerade takes me back ...)
16:38<dpkg>hmm... nat is Network Address Translation. See also ipmasq, or patented by CISCO, or ip-masq is not exactly like NAT, the former is more flexible while the latter gains widely recognition. see also 'netfilter docs', or $BROWSER /usr/share/doc/iptables/html/NAT-HOWTO-4.html#ss4.1, or
16:38<RelDrgn>deboch: so can you connect to a website from the ipmasq router?
16:39<RelDrgn>deboch: well, if you don't have X or anything set up on it, try lynx or links
16:39<padski>handy link that whats-nat-break :-)
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16:41<deboch>note : apt-get update doesn't wok
16:41<Supaplex>deboch: is your ip address static?
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16:41<Supaplex>s/your/the router/
16:41<RelDrgn>deboch: not working where? On the computer behind the ipmasq router, or the ipmasq router
16:42<deboch>the iprouter
16:42<RelDrgn>ok, do you get an immediate error or just a timeout?
16:42<RelDrgn>switch /etc/apt/sources.list to use ftp:// and try updating again.
16:43<padski>deboch, you should be able to use ftp:// urls in /etc/apt/sources.list
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16:44<Supaplex>deboch: !tell deboch -about sources.list
16:44<Supaplex>!tell deboch -about sources.list
16:44<deboch>ok it's fine
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16:45<deboch>i still have problem with icaweasel and w3m and all web clients
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16:46<padski>deboch, iptables-save and out to #flood ?
16:46<Supaplex>deboch: are there any iptables rules?
16:46<Supaplex> might be better
16:47<padski>no port 80
16:47<Supaplex>oh yeah. :)
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16:50<wiredoptix>can someone help me with this etch bug? my mouse goes into the 4 arrows and i have to end up restarting X everytime.
16:50<nmc>hi all, after the atualization of 80mb of packages my X broken and couldn't start
16:50<nmc>i use etch
16:51<RelDrgn>wiredoptix: what do you mean "4 arrows"? What are you doing when it does that?
16:51<wiredoptix>well im just running normal apps like xmms and iceweasle
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16:51<RelDrgn>wiredoptix: what is the mouse over when it does that?
16:51<wiredoptix>and my mouse arrow goes into 4 arrows like a square and i have to quit X because i cant do anything
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16:52<wiredoptix>it happens every so often
16:52<wiredoptix>with any prog
16:52<RelDrgn>sounds like you have some program running that grabs the mouse and crashes. What window manager are you using? Maybe you have something in the taskbar messing with the mouse?
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16:53<RelDrgn>does it have a clock on the screen?
16:54<wiredoptix>like on my bar?
16:54<wiredoptix>i have clock yes
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16:56<wiredoptix>it happens too often
16:56<wiredoptix>i like debian lots i dont have probs with it at all exept this one issue
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17:00<berest>hi ppl
17:00<wiredoptix>Any ideas RelDrgn?
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17:00<berest>where i can find kernel developer?)
17:00<RelDrgn>wiredoptix: there's no easy way to figure out what the heck is going on. Some program is grabbing the cursor (I've had iceweasel do it to me sometimes if I change screens while a <select> is open or if I switch right as a tooltip appears, but iceweasel doesn't use the square arrows cursor as far as I know
17:00<berest>developer work undo framebuffer
17:01<qbit>generally under rocks ... and in hard to get places
17:01<wiredoptix>well its happening to me
17:01<wiredoptix>im not sure what to do
17:01<RelDrgn>if you can ssh in remotely or ctrl-alt-f1 to the console and login, you might be able to use some of the X tools to get a listing of the windows (some apps may have multiple windows) and which window currently owns the mouse
17:02<wiredoptix>when it happens though, all i can do is ctrl alt backspace out of X
17:02<wiredoptix>i cant do anything else
17:03<wiredoptix>sept move the mouse around
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17:05<RelDrgn>if you can ctrl-alt-backspace, you should be able to ctrl-alt-f1. Even if you can't figure out how to make the x utils work, you could run top, hit P to sort by processor time, and see if there's a process "stuck" somewhere eating 100% of it
17:05<berest>anybody have are problem with fb on GeForce6600GT on kernel ???
17:05<wiredoptix>ill try that next time it happens
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17:08<wiredoptix>RelDrgn, is it alright if i add you to a messenger or something. i dont know anyone else who runs deb
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17:10<lajujkej>Quick question: I am running debian on my laptop and have a good xorg file for my external monitor and a good xorg file for my onboard LCD, but how would I go about unifying them so I can use my crt/lcd toggle switch.
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17:15<redneck>can anyone help me with laptop battery related problem? I just purchased new battery for my TI CD650 and it works just a few seconds without AC... I studied a little and looks like it needs to be calibrated. if so, with what program and how?
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17:16<redneck>my laptop also says it doesn't have ACPI
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17:33<el_cubano>Hello. After a recent power outage (which unfortunately outlasted my UPS), my machine goes into an endless cycle of reboots. That is, the Grub screen comes up and the boot process starts, but then after about a screenful of kernl boot message output, the machine simply restarts. Can anyone suggest what to do?
17:34<RelDrgn>tried rescue mode first? Also, maybe you had installed a new kernel and just never rebooted, see if grub has an older kernel listed you could try?
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17:35<el_cubano>RelDrgn: Rescue mode does exactly the same thing. The machine was recently updated to Etch and so I have rebooted it several times. There are no older kernels since I had to transition from 2.4 to 2.6 as part of upgrading to Etch.
17:36[~]piper is putting more beer in fridge: Gone away for now.
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17:37<RelDrgn>el_cubano: next step is to boot from a rescue cd of some kind then
17:37<frank>piper: put one in for me too;)
17:37<piper>np ;)
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17:38<el_cubano>RelDrgn: I've tried that. However, this machine has no CD or Floppy and booting from a USB CD or a USB flash drive fails. That leaves me in a tough spot, no?
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17:40<RelDrgn>yeah, sounds like you're hosed. Drop the drive into something else and try looking at it from there
17:41<el_cubano>Yeah. Unless someone happens to have some blinding insight into how to make a Via EPIA board boot from a USB anything.
17:43<RelDrgn>el_cubano: looks like some of the boards can't boot from a usb hd for some reason, but will boot from a usb zip drive, says damn small linux had a utility to make a flash drive look like a zip drive so it would work
17:47<el_cubano>Hmm. I have an EPIA M board. I am checing out the DSL site to see if I can make that work.
17:48<brislingf>RelDrgn: Now i have runned nmap against the mail server an it states that the port 110 is open
17:48<deboch>padski : cool i'm not blmocked now
17:48<deboch>thanks for all
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17:54<cTATUK>Does anyone know of a GNOME applet that will display just the date, but not the time?
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17:56<streuner>gdesklets might have such
17:56<streuner>or just _use_ gkrellm ;-)
17:56[~]Supaplex humms
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17:57<cTATUK>streuner: It doesn't appear that either gdesklets nor gkrellm are installed so I'll just go for the one that's easier to configure.
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17:59<Nikolas1994>Is it possible to have Debian and Windows XP in the same computer?
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18:00<Nikolas1994>Can i have some information,how to?
18:00<dark_hemperor>i'm a noob anyone who knows a good starter guide for Debian???
18:00<deboch><Nikolas1994> but you have to install debian after windows xp ;-)
18:01<themill>!tell Nikolas1994 about dual boot guide
18:01<amphi>!tell dark_hemperor about grounding
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18:01<dpkg>Before asking in here or on debian-user, you should read the install guide, or if you have already installed, the debian reference, the apt howto. Ask me about "ig", "docs", "manuals", "unix lessons", "reference", "fundamentals", "newbiedoc", "refcard", "faq". (e.g. type /msg dpkg reference in your irc client)
18:02<cTATUK>/msg dpkg !grounding
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18:04<Nikolas1994>Thanks deboch
18:04<Nikolas1994>But those tutorials are talking about linux
18:04<Nikolas1994>linux ubuntu*
18:05<Nikolas1994>Is it the same way for linux debian?
18:05|-|streuner [~streuner@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<deboch>the site is detailing just debian install !
18:06<deboch><Nikolas1994> i recommand you to use the net install method
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18:06<Nikolas1994>where i can find it?
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18:07<deboch><Nikolas1994> wait ...
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18:11<Nikolas1994>i should pick my question now?
18:12<themill>!tell Nikolas1994 about netinstall
18:14<cTATUK>Why does nmapfe require root privileges to use anything other than the "TCP ACK Ping" type?
18:17<deboch>i think because it uses the system fingetprint !
18:17<deboch>isn't it ?
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18:26[~]piper is back.
18:27<themill>streuner_: you asked what his question was...
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18:29<streuner_>themill: wrong channel
18:29<themill>streuner_: I know.. that was intentional.
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18:43<themill>oscar: /join #debian-es
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18:52<linuxwho>anybody noticed any problems with the etch update yet?
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18:56<dondelelcaro>linuxwho: if someone had, there'd be bugs filed.
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18:56<linuxwho>big update just want to make sure before doing it
18:57<brislingf>anyone in here with expirence in postfix?
18:57<linuxwho>time to reboot thanks
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19:17<kwng>anyone there?
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19:18<bignose>kwng: in a channel with hundreds of people, everyone saying "hello" every time someone entered would be bad.
19:18<bignose>kwng: so, we don't.
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19:19<kwng>I need some help to improve my debian
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19:20<kwng>the performance of my debian by setting that is
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19:21<bignose>apt (in my case, aptitude) is complaining about the etch signature. not that it's missing, but that the signature is bad.
19:21<bignose>"The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG A70DAF536070D3A1 Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (4.0/etch)"
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19:21<bignose>I have (what I believe is) the latest 'debian-archive-keyring' installed.
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19:22<bignose>this happens every few weeks, or sometimes days. what's causing it, and how do I ensure it doesn't happen?
19:22<rickey>hello everyone
19:23<rickey>has it been a hot day where youve been?
19:23<rickey> it sure as hell been hot here 104
19:24<piper>try gpg --keyserver --recv-keys 6070D3A1
19:24<piper>then apt-key add /root/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
19:24<bignose>piper: okay. so why does it happen at all?
19:24<piper>bignose: i have no idea, i don't use etch
19:24<bignose>piper: AFAICT there's no change in the 'debian-archive-keyring' package when this happens.
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19:25<JESTER>JUST to let you know
19:25<piper>bignose: all i can say is try it
19:25<JESTER>thers no video setting in my BIOS
19:26<JESTER>is anyone out there
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19:26<JESTER>I Have a ATI RADEON 9250 but having to run my intel because the screen goes black and restarts pc, PLZ HELP!
19:27<piper>intel is onboard ?
19:27<piper>no disable onboard in bios
19:28<piper>what motherboard
19:28<JESTER>its a gateway pc
19:28<JESTER>i got the case open now
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19:29<piper>no advanced features in bios i.e. like hitting ctrl+f1
19:29<JESTER>not that i know of
19:29<JESTER>didnt say anything
19:29<piper>well it would say in the manual
19:29<JESTER>its a p3 1ghz Gateway Santoroni or something
19:29<JESTER>onboard Intel graphics card
19:30<piper>have you done a google search on your make and model
19:30<bignose>piper: thanks for the suggestion, I've seen that procedure before
19:30<piper>and see if it can be done
19:30<JESTER>they want me to do like some 70 list custom crap that i cannot understand
19:30<piper>bignose: no problem ;)
19:30<bignose>piper: it didn't change the problem though. still BADSIG
19:31<JESTER>just found this
19:31<JESTER>Radeon: X1900, X1800, X1600, X1300, X850, X800, X700, X600, X550, X300, 9800, 9700, 9600, 9550, 9500
19:31<JESTER>but no 9250
19:32|-|E0x [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:32<JESTER>i mean i switched to linux and i cant even use my card now
19:32<JESTER>this always hapends
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19:33<bignose>JESTER: "can't use", or "can't get 3D acceleration"?
19:33<predder>JESTER, do you see the bootloader screen with it?
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19:34<bzed>which card are you talking about btw!?
19:34<JESTER>i plug it up turn on right, ati works to boot screen and all but when floppy scans screen goes black, i switch to my intel onboard card and its like static and ubuntu logo is crashing in back
19:34<predder>bzed, it's a pci ati 9250
19:34<bzed>JESTER: ubuntu?
19:34<bzed>goto hell, ehm #ubuntu then
19:35<predder>JESTER, you said ubuntu? This is #debian mate
19:35<flami>JESTER JESTER this is #DEBIAN
19:35<Supaplex>!tell JESTER -about based on debian
19:35<bignose>JESTER: you're asking in the wrong channel
19:35<JESTER>how i get in here
19:35<JESTER>is debian any good
19:35<bzed>JESTER: install debian, and you'll find help here
19:35<flami>god yeah
19:35<JESTER>better than ubuntu?
19:35<piper>better than UB
19:35<bignose>JESTER: it's good enough to use as basis for dozens of other operating systems.
19:35<JESTER>ok help me get it
19:35<Supaplex>JESTER: we're not biased ;)
19:35<JESTER>ill do it
19:35<flami>maybe not better , more differet ;)
19:35<piper>african word for can't install debian
19:35<JESTER>what u mean...
19:35<predder>JESTER, "better" is always in someones opinion
19:36<flami>some people even think gentoo is the best
19:36<JESTER>i know ubuntu kicks windows and mac in the azz but
19:36<bignose>JESTER: <URL:> follow the links for getting it.
19:36<JESTER>u know
19:36<Supaplex>JESTER: ask your boss if he's the best boss. then you'll figure out bias.
19:36<dpkg>Etch 4.0r0 is now the "Stable" debian release (April 8, 2007) see for images. Sarge is still available at Developers page is .. If you want to make custom install cds, start with d-i. IRC: #debian-boot. Lenny is now the new Testing!
19:36<JESTER>ask my boss
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19:36<JESTER>this is my home pc folk
19:36<Tydor>i have the flash plugins...and.. i can't see the youtube videos...return the error you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Macromedia's Flash Player.
19:36<Supaplex>JESTER: nm the bias comments then. you don't pay enough attention to context.
19:37<flami>JESTER i guess you need the fglrx for your radeon , ATI was kind enough not to release any specs AND make shitty drivers
19:37<predder>Tydor, what browser?
19:37<JESTER>i know right
19:37<JESTER>so now im stuck with a useless 90 dollar card man
19:37<JESTER>unless i go back to slow and laggy windows
19:37<flami>i wish i could get rid of my x700 ;)
19:37<predder>JESTER, you paid $90 USD for a pci 9250?
19:37<gravity>There's avivo in experimental
19:38<bignose>JESTER: you can thank the unhelpful hardware vendors.
19:38<JESTER>i got it right when it came out dude
19:38<gravity>avivo should support your card
19:38<flami>its easy to get the driver though : apatitude install fglrx
19:38|-|oxymor00n [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:38<Tydor>predder: mozilla
19:38|-|EricB` changed nick to EricB
19:38<JESTER>where i type that at
19:38<Tydor>or iceweasel
19:38<Supaplex>!tell JESTER -about grounding
19:38<flami>JESTER thats when you ahve debian :P
19:38<Supaplex>JESTER: a root shell
19:38<predder>Tydor, which one, they are 2 different browsers :)
19:38|-|emonge [~emonge@] has joined #debian
19:39<Tydor>i 've two \o/
19:39<JESTER>omg i dont wanna leave another OS
19:39<JESTER>ive done gone throught xp vista and now ubuntu
19:39<JESTER>its driving me crazy
19:39<flami>well ubuntu is close to debian but it aint debian
19:39|-|anutile [] has joined #debian
19:39<flami>its much more bloat
19:39<Tydor>i starter in debian for 3 days....and i don't change debian for nothing...
19:39<predder>Tydor, oh, I see. Did you try the non-free flash package?
19:39<JESTER>umm what u mean
19:39<piper>and not compatible
19:40|-|E0x_ [] has joined #debian
19:40<flami>yeah the ubuntu kernel : 80 mb , debian : 40
19:40<Tydor>predder: yes...all flash in the apt-cache search ....all flash i find i install
19:40<JESTER>well is debian compatable with ATI cards
19:40<Supaplex>!tell JESTER about ati
19:40<JESTER>i know
19:40<JESTER>ati is gay
19:40<flami>weEEllL , ubuntu is too just install fglrx
19:40<bignose>JESTER: check the documentation (as you've no doubt learned now from this experience)
19:40<Supaplex>JESTER: sure, I have a few ati cards (but they're hideous old)
19:40<JESTER>but well its worth the trouble
19:41|-|anutile [] has quit []
19:41<predder>Tydor, but if you dont have the non-free mirror listed in /etc/apt/sources.list then you're not going to be getting "all" the flash packages
19:41|-|anutile [] has joined #debian
19:41<JESTER>lol supa i have a ati 3d rage pro in my sis comp
19:41<JESTER>it sucks so bad
19:41<gravity>Dude... avivo
19:41<gravity>!info xserver-xorg-video-avivo
19:41<Tydor>predder: i have flash plugin and flash player 9.0
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19:42<JESTER>im on a p3 coppermine so i guess i get the debian intel x86?
19:42<piper>regular xorg native should work with that card
19:42|-|Atomo64 [~Atomo64@] has joined #debian
19:42<JESTER>coppermine will kick ur p4 in the ass
19:42<Supaplex>JESTER: yes
19:42<JESTER>where do i download
19:42<Supaplex>!tell JESTER -about d-i
19:43<predder>JESTER, please refrain from hitting enter so much, 4 lines to say "where do i download" is ridiculous
19:43<JESTER>Debian GNU/Linux on x86 Machines
19:43|-|rmayorga [~rmayorga@] has joined #debian
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19:43<JESTER>hey dude
19:43<JESTER>they are helping me here im leaving ubuntu it sucks i cant even use my ati card
19:43<piper>JESTER: what does lspci -nn | grep VGA tell you
19:43|-|cahoot [~radix@] has joined #debian
19:43<JESTER>do i type that in terminal
19:44|-|primero [] has quit []
19:44<piper>should be 1 maybe 2 lines
19:44<piper>do as user
19:44<JESTER>matt@mattspc:~$ lspci -nn | grep VGA
19:44<JESTER>00:01.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 82810E DC-133 CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] [8086:7125] (rev 03)
19:45<JESTER>my ati is not in or it wont boot at all
19:45<Supaplex>haha. then it's not an OS issue. :P
19:45<piper>but you can see bios or bootscreen
19:45<JESTER>umm bios works boot screen works until
19:46<JESTER>IT gets done loading ubuntu and dies
19:46<JESTER>then it restarts
19:46<JESTER>and kills itself all over again
19:46<piper>you have to find out if you can disable onboard
19:46<piper>that is the problem
19:46<JESTER>theres no option in BIOS
19:46<JESTER>i just looked 2 times!
19:46<JESTER>i even enabled plug and play
19:47<piper>find a gateway support forum or call
19:47<JESTER>do they even support linux
19:47<JESTER>i thought that was just dell
19:47<JESTER>hmm w/e
19:47<gravity>Vesa should work for your card as well, although if you've got an intel chip I'd definitely go with that
19:47<Supaplex>afaik dell is still thinking about it
19:47<JESTER>gues ill tell them im running windows
19:47<piper>don't tell them you have linux, just ask if onboard video can be disabled
19:48<JESTER>o snap
19:48<JESTER>u wana know something
19:48<JESTER>they make u give them ur chassis model
19:48<JESTER>i switched cases
19:48<predder>JESTER, again with the hitting enter
19:48[~]gravity stops and goes back to being productive
19:48<JESTER>brb gotta eat mom is annoying!!!
19:49<piper>hmm, my grandkids say that about me
19:49|-|anutile_ [] has joined #debian
19:49<gravity>piper: That you're annoying?
19:49<piper>they love me ;)
19:49|-|knoppix_ [] has joined #debian
19:50[~]Supaplex returns to installing debian+freedos+winblowz multiboot
19:50<piper>and don't forget Happy Birthday Debian
19:50|-|knoppix_ changed nick to Guest1019
19:50|-|Guest1019 changed nick to lindunce
19:51<Tydor>i turned off all javascrip and...i can't see the youtube videos =(
19:51|-|ernesto [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
19:52<piper>Tydor: have deb sid main in your sources ?
19:52<lindunce>got knoppix....ran it knoppix desktop=fluxbox
19:53<piper>apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
19:53<Tydor>yes i have
19:53<lindunce>in fluxbox i was able to 'toggle' to any different 'x-window' KDE...WmIce...etc etc WAY KEWL!
19:53<Tydor>i install flashplugin-nonfree version 9.0
19:53|-|anutile__ [] has joined #debian
19:54<lindunce>but...grrrrrrrrrr none of the other interfaces had listings like fluxbox did, so i had to reboot
19:54|-|cahoot [~radix@] has quit [Quit: cahoot]
19:54<Supaplex>lindunce: do you have a debian question?
19:54|-|anutile__ [] has quit []
19:54<lindunce> the others have that capability but i am simply unaware of it?
19:55<lindunce>guess not
19:55<Supaplex>lindunce: consider debian-live
19:56|-|anutile [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:56<lindunce>ok it has 'all' the interfaces too? KDE/Gnome/Fluxbox....?
19:56<lindunce>and well what ARE they called......shells?
19:57<piper>wm window managers
19:57<lindunce>i really just want to be able to 'toggle' shells at will, without rebooting
19:58<piper>caps is considered shouting ;)
19:59<lindunce>otay, no more shouting....but??? well i kinda did wanna shout my thanks?
19:59<lindunce>windows managers..huh i never would have thought that
19:59<piper>they should be listed under "session type" at login
19:59|-|buzztracker [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:59<lindunce>soooooooo i just want to toggle window managers at will without having to reboot
20:00|-|buzztracker [] has joined #debian
20:00<lindunce>fluxbox gave me that options, but once i was IN another manager, they did not have that option like fluxbox had...oh well
20:00|-|MBR666 [] has joined #debian
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20:02|-|MBR6669 [] has joined #debian
20:02<lindunce>bingo! so 'log off' without 'shutting down' and use /click 'session type'.....hey good stuff
20:02|-|MBR6669 [] has quit []
20:02<lindunce>will do
20:02<lindunce>again thanks
20:02|-|lindunce [] has left #debian [Leaving]
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20:07<knix>Most gnome-compliant wms will let you hotswap them
20:07<knix>ie. `openbox --replace`
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20:12<bignose>I can't find a debian-powerpc channel, should I ask in here?
20:12<JESTER>ok folks im back
20:12|-|Holborn [] has joined #debian
20:13<JESTER>who can help me figure out how to disable onboard graphics but theres no menu in bios
20:13<gsimmons>bignose: Try #debianppc.
20:13<bignose>gsimmons: thanks.
20:13<gravity>JESTER: Why are you bothering to do that?
20:13<JESTER>umm because im in the wrong chat room some how
20:14<JESTER>im on ubuntu and it messes up my ati radeon 9250
20:14<gravity>JESTER: As in #ubuntu
20:14<JESTER>so im on INTEL INTEGRATED right now
20:14<JESTER>im trying to figure out how to get live support from gateway
20:14<JESTER>but they chaged their stuff
20:14<JESTER>there it is
20:15<JESTER>they want my phone number and stuff
20:15<bignose>JESTER: disabling it needs to be done in the BIOS
20:15<JESTER>hella naw
20:15|-|dtrrr [~dtr@] has joined #debian
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20:15<predder>bignose, there could be a jumper, it's a P3
20:15<bignose>JESTER: if you can't get the BIOS to cooperate, your issue is with the machine vendor
20:15<JESTER>its a Gateway Santoroni or something like that, pentium 3 coppermine 1ghz
20:16<bignose>I've eradicated knowledge of such machines from my mind :-)
20:16<JESTER>wheres the jumper
20:16<predder>JESTER, disabling the onboard video is not going to help. You said the ubuntu loading screen messes up and goes into a reboot loop if the other card is even plugged in
20:16<JESTER>i wanna overclock it and watch it explode
20:16<JESTER>thats the prob
20:16|-|craigevil [] has joined #debian
20:16<JESTER>but their drivers wont load
20:16<JESTER>thats whats gay
20:16<piper>does live cd work ?
20:16<predder>so obviously there's a problem with that card with the out of the box config. Whether or not you're actually using it does not matter
20:16<JESTER>thats what it ran from!
20:17<Tydor>i can't install flashplayer-nonfree ....after download with aptitude ou apt-get show me....The Flash plugin is NOT installed.
20:17|-|rmayorga [~rmayorga@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:17<JESTER>yo i wanna overclock my pc
20:17<JESTER>what jumper do i move
20:17<JESTER>before i go back to windows
20:17<bignose>Tydor: please install gnash instead, and report bugs
20:17<predder>JESTER, what's that a threat? Go back to windows
20:17<bignose>Tydor: you'll gwet much more traction from people by helping to improve free software, rather than asking for help with non-free
20:17<JESTER>i dont know
20:18<JESTER>its a threat for me
20:18<JESTER>its so slow
20:18<JESTER>linux is fast but ATI cant make Drivers that work
20:18<predder>you're using ubuntu, spamming the debian channel and originally not accurately describing the problem
20:18<bignose>JESTER: ATI don't need to make the drivers
20:18<predder>start a thread on the linux forums or ask in ubuntu
20:18<bignose>JESTER: the kernel developers do it for them, *if* they have the necessary hardware info.
20:19<Tydor>bignose: i try use free...but tell me for i can see youtube videos i need nonfree...i don't know this
20:19<JESTER>I AGREE and just cause im on ubutu dont mean nothing, its the same prob for everything
20:19<bignose>Tydor: again, if you can't report bugs against the free software
20:19<JESTER>its this model the one i thought was gonna last 6 years
20:19<predder>JESTER, is that so? What did the debian bootloader say then
20:19<bignose>Tydor: non-free gets far less support
20:19|-|manphiz [dxy@] has joined #debian
20:19<JESTER>not sure
20:19<bignose>Tydor: precisely because it's non-free.
20:19<JESTER>but if windows has probs
20:19<JESTER>i know this will
20:19<predder>so it's a hardware issue
20:19<JESTER>i think so
20:20<JESTER>might be too old
20:20<bignose>Tydor: (that should read "if you can't, then report bugs")
20:20<JESTER>i just need a new pc lol
20:20<predder>!op JESTER
20:20<JESTER>why would i report a bug if it cant be fixed
20:20<gravity>JESTER: You should really be asking these questions elsewhere
20:20<JESTER>help me out here
20:20<gravity>JESTER: #debian isn't a general support channel
20:20<JESTER>i want to try this debian thing
20:20<gravity>It's a Debian support channel
20:20<bignose>help you out?
20:21[~]bignose shows JESTER the door
20:21<knix>bignose: I don't even have to install gnash and I have a rather large bug for you
20:21<knix>no flash 9 support
20:21<predder>JESTER you have already been given the relevant links
20:21<bignose>knix: for me? not me.
20:21<JESTER>i know
20:21<predder>if you wish to try debian please do so
20:21<bignose>knix: I'm not the BTS.
20:21|-|Holborn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:21<JESTER>umm but there web site is weird
20:21<JESTER>u have to get cd's and crap
20:21<bignose>JESTER: and we can't help with that.
20:21<JESTER>where is download!!
20:22<JESTER>i am there
20:22<gravity>Read the page.
20:22<predder>read the page
20:22<JESTER>just without the us thing
20:22<gravity>I mean.. come on. This isn't even read the manual. Read the web page.
20:22<gravity>It's right there in like three places.
20:23<JESTER>im in my processor range
20:23<JESTER>its just telling me to get the cd basicly
20:23<bignose>JESTER: yes.
20:23<predder>so do it?
20:23<JESTER>wait i found something
20:23<JESTER>whichi one
20:23<JESTER>minimal boot cd
20:23<bignose>JESTER: honestly, we don't need a blow-by-blow of you reading the Debian web site
20:24<JESTER>well i dont care about this pc
20:24<bignose>JESTER: please read it privately, and when you have a question *that isn't answered there*, feel free to come back.
20:24<JESTER>i wanna overclock it to like 2 ghz turn the fans off and watch it explode
20:24<gravity>I'm all for expanding the use of linux, but I also remember when people really read a lot before attempting to install things.
20:24<predder>JESTER, that is not debian related
20:25<piper>JESTER: i suggest a live cd, not sure if your ready for a install, make sure your hardware works before installing
20:25<piper>or you'll be wasting your time
20:25<predder>I agree with piper, try Knoppix if you just want to destroy your computer
20:25<JESTER>k but im reading this minimal cd thing, i guess thats the one i need to get? since they say it will auto download
20:26<gravity>That's usually the right one to get, yes
20:26<JESTER>theres like 15 cd's
20:26<bignose>JESTER: a live CD will run the operating system from the CD. that will let you trial it, but slow since it's not running from fast media.
20:26<piper>may i suggest, sorry guys/gals ;)
20:26|-|arcil [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:26<piper>i am true debian ;)
20:26<gravity>JESTER: You only need the net install. That'll let you install what you actually want from the 'net
20:26<bignose>JESTER: a netinst ("network install") CD will be quick to get, and is used for installing packages directly from the internet.
20:27<ranix>lol "omg 15 cds"
20:27<gravity>Sometimes I think we should hide the full CD/DVD's a little better
20:27<bignose>JESTER: choose a live CD if you want to try it out, or a netinst CD if you know you want to install.
20:27<piper>netinst works great great
20:27<ranix>I remember when I bought a potato CD
20:27<JESTER>whats the fastest server
20:27<ranix>It was exciting
20:28<JESTER>for us
20:28<bignose>JESTER: one in your country, in a location you recognise
20:28<piper>yes, gave me a woody
20:28<ranix>MIT or just
20:28<bignose>JESTER: the netinst CD is small, you'll waste more time deciding than you would downloading :-)
20:28|-|deboch [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:28<JESTER>i know but ubuntu had like one server hittin 32kb/s and one going 160kb/s
20:28|-|Holborn [] has joined #debian
20:28<JESTER>ok so far im here
20:29<JESTER>they got like 4 folders and some ls-lr files
20:29<ranix>just go to and download the first cd as an iso
20:29<ranix>or assemble it with jigdo
20:29<bignose>JESTER: you really would be best off reading the installation manual (for your architecture)
20:29|-|rmayorga [~rmayorga@] has joined #debian
20:29<bignose>JESTER: it leads you step by step
20:30<JESTER>lol im just use to windows linux is new to me well besides the ipod
20:30<piper>live would be best for him/her any flavor of debian
20:30<bignose>JESTER: sure. and that's why the step-by-step install manual was written.
20:30<bignose>piper: bear in mind it's a machine he isn't otherwise using
20:30<JESTER>omg do i have to download as a torrent
20:30<JESTER>these are 2 small to do anything to my pc
20:30<bignose>JESTER: no, what you have to do is *read the install manual*. please.
20:31<predder>!report JESTER
20:31<bignose>JESTER: um, no.
20:31<JESTER>w/e dud
20:31|-|H [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:31<JESTER>i dont care
20:31<ranix>JESTER: harbl?
20:31<predder>hmm, this channel has a distinct lack of ops
20:31<JESTER>ive hacked sony its no big deal
20:31<ranix>did you download the garbage file?
20:32<JESTER>just pros wont help newb
20:32<JESTER>its always that way
20:32<bignose>JESTER: no, we won't help people *read*. that's what the education system is for.
20:32<JESTER>what u mean garbage file
20:32<JESTER>i am in school
20:32|-|mode/#debian [+o dondelelcaro] by ChanServ
20:32|-|mode/#debian [+q *!*] by dondelelcaro
20:32|-|mode/#debian [-o dondelelcaro] by dondelelcaro
20:32<dondelelcaro>JESTER: spend the next 10 minutes figuring out the exact debian question you want to ask
20:33<predder>dondelelcaro, thanks!
20:33<ranix>he just wants to know how to hack some serious heavy metal across state lines. He wants to get one of those Gibsons, man, those things are SEXY
20:34<ranix>a truly righteous hack
20:34<predder>JESTER, <-- Download that and read this -->
20:34<dondelelcaro>the gibson is that way --->
20:36<gravity>Thanks dondelelcaro, I was pretty close but just couldn't quite bring myself to do it
20:36<ranix>you're lucky gravity, he might have tipped your little boat over
20:36<dondelelcaro>gravity: heh. yeah, I've got low tolerances today. ;-)
20:37<gravity>My little boat?
20:37<ranix>I'm still making fun of him for his massive sony hack
20:37<ranix>I can't get over it
20:37<gravity>I missed that, but that's ok
20:38<craigevil>funny that he didnt catch the reference to the Garbage file
20:38<ranix><JESTER> ive hacked sony its no big deal
20:38|-|jack_wyt [~jack@] has joined #debian
20:38|-|JESTER [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:39|-|JESTER [] has joined #debian
20:39<ranix>WB ZeroCool
20:39|-|Nobody_and_Nothing [] has joined #debian
20:40|-|Nobody_and_Nothing changed nick to lexa|franzy
20:40|-|COME [] has joined #debian
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20:40<ranix>he blocked your IP there, mitnick
20:41<lexa|franzy>how i can add modules for apache if i like go by th debian way?
20:41<manphiz>boost returned to gcc-4.1 and python 2.4 ...
20:41<ranix>lexa|franzy: most are apache-module-<foo>
20:41<ranix>or libapache or libapache2-module-<foo>
20:41<manphiz>Where can I find status about gcc-4.2 and python-2.5 migration?
20:41|-|kurumin [] has joined #debian
20:42<ranix>lexa|franzy: for example, for apache2, to install php5: apt-get install libapache2-mod_php5
20:42<ranix>"apt-cache search" can help you find the names of specific packages easier
20:43|-|mode/#debian [+o dondelelcaro] by ChanServ
20:43|-|mode/#debian [-q *!*] by dondelelcaro
20:43|-|mode/#debian [-o dondelelcaro] by dondelelcaro
20:43<JESTER>im back
20:43<lexa|franzy>If this module epsent in this list?
20:43<JESTER>46 percent
20:43<lexa|franzy><ranix> i need mod_reailip.c
20:43<ranix>what version are you using, lexa|franzy
20:44<JESTER>now i need to know whats the best program to burn it with
20:44<ranix>reailip.c is something I am not familiar with
20:44|-|emonge [~emonge@] has joined #debian
20:44<lexa|franzy>1.3 thinking but apache 2 alsa installed
20:44<bignose>JESTER: not a Debian question. please, don't expect personal live hand-holding for every step.
20:44|-|rmayorga [~rmayorga@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:44[~]GhostlyDeath hmm
20:45<lexa|franzy><ranix> i like redirect users from internet to my local www-pages
20:45<JESTER>oh and i saw what u said about me hacking sony, if u have a ps2 and play socom 3 and combined assault, i took the credit card stuff off
20:45<JESTER>so laugh now punk
20:45<JESTER>what i thought
20:46<bignose>JESTER: you're getting very annoying. please leave.
20:46|-|iblicf [~iblicf@] has joined #debian
20:46<JESTER>i like to annoy people
20:46|-|Tydor [~eduardo@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:46<craigevil>will some 1 ban the idiot already?
20:46<JESTER>its so funny!
20:46<JESTER>error code: ID 10 T
20:46<ranix>he's entertaining me
20:46<bignose>!report JESTER
20:46<gravity>JESTER: If you don't stop now, you will be banned.
20:46|-|xuwei [xuwei@] has joined #debian
20:46<JESTER>another report
20:46<JESTER>so what
20:46<JESTER>like im gonna use the shit if i cant use it fully
20:46<ranix>JESTER: don't worry, you can hack your IP
20:46<bignose>ranix: fine , open a private channel with him.
20:47|-|mode/#debian [+o gravity] by ChanServ
20:47|-|kurumin [] has left #debian [Konversation terminated!]
20:47|-|mode/#debian [+b *!*] by gravity
20:47|-|mode/#debian [-o gravity] by gravity
20:47<ranix>:( alas, Crash Override; I knew him well
20:47<gravity>That is a wonderful movie to watch drunk with other linux nerds, btw
20:48|-|darkstar [] has joined #debian
20:48<ranix>A lot of people hate it but I really liked it
20:48<lexa|franzy><ranix> may be another way existis...
20:48<lexa|franzy>like proxy
20:49<ranix>lexa|franzy: do you know where that module comes from? Maybe search for the source file in question?
20:49|-|JESTER [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:49<ranix>you can search the contents of packages, should be able to turn up that c file
20:51<Nyle>not only drunk but stoned
20:52<piper>damn a party without me
20:52<Nyle>that movie kicked ass
20:53<dondelelcaro>gravity: guess he didn't figure out what to do in 10 minutes...
20:54<gravity>He's probably like 14 and thinks he's being pretty cool
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20:55<gravity>Hopefully he'll learn to lurk a bit and learn the etiquette of a channel before speaking up pointlessly
20:55<piper>or older and came here just to play
20:55<bignose>gravity: hopefully. meanwhile, he can learn to be polite from his parents instead of us.
20:59<ranix>I took some advice this morning about spam filtering and decided to try out greylistd
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21:00<ranix>it has ELIMINATED virtually ALL incoming spam
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21:00<NotLim>i there... i have a question: i have 4 GB of ram... i've installed debian netinst i386... and it doesn't detect all ram... i was reading some docs... and says that i need to enable "pat", how can i do that? someone knows?
21:00<bignose>greylisting is a pretty cool concept
21:00<NotLim>hi there*
21:00<ranix>I have gotten exactly 14 messages in the past 10 hours and they were all from the same host, who was using an interesting thing that harvested names off my company webpage
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21:00<bignose>but it doesn't scale; that is, if everyone starts doing it, the spammers respond by behaving the way a greylister encourages them to behave, and we lose the benefits.
21:01<ranix>of course they were all wrong namesanyway
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21:01<ranix>bignose: I don't know if that would happen. It does increase costs for spammers to have to implement retries
21:01<bignose>it's a good step though, because behaving how a greylister encourages makes spamming more expensive
21:02<ranix>that's almost completely unfeasable
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21:02<chealer>NotLim: what's pat?
21:02<ranix>I've gotten over two thousand different mails to two thousand name dictionary addresses in a day from the same host
21:03<ranix>I think by the time spam escalates to being able to cope with greylisting there should be a replacement for SMTP
21:03<dondelelcaro>there's nothing really wrong with SMTP, actually.
21:03<ranix>something that uses a third-party authenticator or something a-la SSL certificates
21:03<bignose>I'm not so optimistic. I think spammers can scale much higher, they just don't *need* to yet.
21:04<ranix>smtp takes messages from anyone with no authentication whatsoever
21:04<ranix>it was never designed for internetuse
21:04<ranix>it was for local networks
21:04<bignose>that, combined with the immense inertia of SMTP, means I don't think greylisting will solve the problem during SMTP's lifetime.
21:05<dondelelcaro>the main issue doesn't have much to do with the actual protocol you use to handle mail
21:05<dondelelcaro>it's almost entirely a trust/reputation question
21:05<ranix>the system is flawed, not the protocol. More like it's a hammer being used on screws, is what I mean
21:06<bignose>dondelelcaro: yes.
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21:06<dondelelcaro>that SMTP is the protocol was my main point; until you come up with a good way of resolving the trust/reputation issue, we're stuck.
21:07<bignose>ranix: sure. but SMTP is what we have, and will have for a long time. anything that doesn't account for that is a "first, boil the ocean" solution.
21:07<ranix>I think there should be third party authenticators, a-la verisign
21:07<dondelelcaro>ranix: the problem is that those aren't really authenticators; those are "have credit-card"-ators
21:07<piper>NotLim: you talking about page attribute table ?
21:08<ranix>dondelelcaro: They could be, with a little thought
21:08<piper>that would be kernel related
21:08<NotLim>physical address extension
21:08<ranix>of course that would take a massive backing. To have any affect at all you would have to deny from everyone notsigned with the authenticator
21:08<NotLim>i've read something about bigmem too
21:09<ranix>which means you'd need like 90+% of all email providers to sign with that system
21:09<dondelelcaro>NotLim: you're probably talking about pae, but the default kernels that Debian ships now should do 4G
21:09<NotLim>but Debian just detect 900 MB of 4 GB
21:09<dondelelcaro>NotLim: the bigmem kernels are for > 4G. [Usually >> 4]
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21:10<bignose>ranix: still, don't underestimate the speed at which a good, simple, forward step can be adopted. for an analogy, look at how fast OpenID was adopted by the big guns.
21:10<dondelelcaro>NotLim: which kernel?
21:10<NotLim>latest testing kernel
21:10<bignose>ranix: OpenID isn't a complete solution to trust on the web; it's merely a necessary first step. yet it's now pretty much a "when, not if" step.
21:10<piper>well which one is that
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21:10<bignose>ranix: something incremental, simple and obvious like that is needed for SMTP.
21:10<NotLim>okay, wait... im installing again right now
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21:10<ranix>bignose: I guess I'll watch and wait.
21:11<ranix>but for now, greylisting is insane
21:11<piper>i run
21:11<dondelelcaro>NotLim: the latest testing kernel is 2.6.22 iirc, which has CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G=y
21:11<NotLim>okay, thanks
21:11<NotLim>i386, right?
21:11<bignose>ranix: again, I don't deny the *current* effectiveness of greylisting. I recommend it to all receiving MTAs.
21:11<NotLim>is i686 testing available?
21:11<dondelelcaro>I don't know what the 486 kernel has
21:11<ranix>bignose: I understand
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21:12<chealer>NotLim: 686 is one of the images for Debian i386
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21:13<NotLim>can i install it with apt?
21:13<chealer>NotLim: yes
21:13<ranix>NotLim: yes, you can install stock kernels with apt
21:13<bignose>NotLim: 'aptitude install linux-image-686'
21:13<chealer>dondelelcaro: the Linux version in testing is 2.6.21.
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21:13<ranix>NotLim: very little can really go wrong with a kernel upgrade, you'd be surprised
21:13<dondelelcaro>NotLim: yes, you can. just aptitude install linux-image-2.6-686;
21:14<bignose>NotLim: that's if you always want to upgrade to the latest in Debian
21:14[~]NotLim don't know which line watch
21:14<NotLim>"to watch"?
21:14<bignose>NotLim: there are also 'linux-image-2.6-686' and 'linux-image-2.6.21-686' depending on how manual you want control over the version
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21:15<NotLim>i'll look
21:15<NotLim>for 686
21:15<chealer>bignose: linux-image-2.6.21-2-686
21:16<dondelelcaro>NotLim: yeah, the 486 kernels don't have HIGHMEM, the 686 ones do.
21:16<NotLim>i'll see
21:16<dondelelcaro>dpkg: kernel config is <reply> See /boot/config-* for debian kernels which you have installed, or for other official kernels.
21:16<dpkg>...but kernel config is already something else...
21:16<dondelelcaro>dpkg: no kernel config is <reply> See /boot/config-* for debian kernels which you have installed, or for other official kernels.
21:16<dpkg>dondelelcaro: okay
21:16<dondelelcaro>dpkg: literal kernel configs
21:16<dpkg>"kernel configs" is "found in /boot/config-* for installed kernels, and a collection of (hopefully currently) available kernel configs can be found at"
21:16<dondelelcaro>dpkg: no kernel configs is <reply> see kernel config
21:16<dpkg>dondelelcaro: okay
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21:40<NotLim>thanks a lot, i've installed 2.6.21-2-686-bigmem and detected 4 GB :)
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21:41<bignose>NotLim: which package did you install? 'linux-image-686'?
21:41<bignose>er, s/686/686-bigmem/
21:42<bignose>NotLim: okay. that will get newer versions of the kernel when they make it into Debian.
21:42<dondelelcaro>NotLim: you just want 2.6.21-2-686, not -bigmem
21:43<NotLim>i've read
21:43<NotLim>that bigmem is 4 GB to 64 GB
21:44<NotLim>for example, without -bigmem... can detect 5 GB RAM?
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21:46<chealer>NotLim: right. no.
21:46<NotLim>thanks a lot man
21:46<NotLim>the pc has 2 memory slots available
21:46<NotLim>and sorry for my english, my native language is spanish
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21:48<cTATUK>I already fucking told you to get 686! /join #Debian-Es
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21:58<ntbnnt>i need help installing gspca modules on lenny, kernel version
21:59<dpkg>rumour has it, module-assistant is a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages and generate/install DEB packages with them, or aptitude install module-assistant build-essential && m-a prepare
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22:05<el_cubano>I have been trying to solve this problem with a machine that has been acting up since a recent power outage. About two seconds after booting, it just resets.
22:06<Supaplex>el_cubano: what have you tried so far?
22:06<el_cubano>I have tried regular boot, single user mode and booting DSL from a USB drive (there is no floppy or CD drive on this machine).
22:07<Supaplex>what's single user mode do? same issue?
22:07<el_cubano>It took som doing, but I finally got the USB boot working. The bad thing is that DSL acts the same as the regular and single user boots. It resets the machine just after the kernel loads.
22:08<el_cubano>I see about a screenful of boot messages, so I am thinking that init at least starts. However, since the reset is so fast, I can't see any of the messages.
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22:10<Supaplex>interesting. dsl hasn't used any of the binaries/files on the other drives right? usb only?
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22:10<Supaplex>I'd start looking at bios and hardware issues
22:11<el_cubano>Yeah. Of course, without a floppy reflashing the BIOS will be a challenge
22:11<el_cubano>As far as the hardware, I am not sure of what else, other than the BIOS is worth looking at.
22:12<Supaplex>resetting bios to defaults or failsafe settings?
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22:13<el_cubano>Let me give that a shot.
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22:33<tjfontaine>it may surprise you to learn, you're already here
22:34<apollo29a>Just tired I guess.
22:37<apollo29a>Is this just a support channel?
22:37<Supaplex>for debian yes
22:37<tjfontaine>[08-16] 23:37 -ChanServ( Description: Debian technical support channel.
22:38<apollo29a>Damn, I am looking for a more BS debian channel, could you point me to one?
22:38<tjfontaine>#moocows or #offtopic
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22:38<dpkg>#debian-offtopic is not a place where nolife from #debian can come at will and feel at home. find another place ffs
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22:56<el_cubano>Supaplex: the failsafe defaults just bricked my machine
22:58<Supaplex>some failsafe :(
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22:58<el_cubano>makes me think that the hardware is seriously borked however.
22:58<Supaplex>what kind is it?
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22:58<el_cubano>Via EPIA-M6000
22:59<Supaplex>what role did this have?
22:59<el_cubano>Backup MX, backup web server, gateway and LDAP server
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23:00<el_cubano>The biggest problem is the gateway role. Thankfully, I have one other machine that is dual-homed, so it can get to the public net.
23:00<Supaplex>I have some spare geode 300mhz boxes I'll be tossing on ebay soon
23:01<el_cubano>Where are you located?
23:01<Supaplex>SLC Utah
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23:29<Supaplex>!lart thirsty usb devices
23:29[~]dpkg holds thirsty usb devices to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails
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23:31<predder>!confuse Supaplex
23:31<dpkg>No, how was their ferret yesterday, Supaplex? shirts of the people's republic of micronesia with extra anchovies
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23:59<awel>helow der..can i chat..
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 17 00:00:02 2007