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#debian IRC Logs for 2007-09-03

---Logopened Mon Sep 03 00:00:04 2007
---Daychanged Mon Sep 03 2007
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00:32<chuy_max>wooohoooooo, octave rules !
00:33<chuy_max>it basically helps me in most of my classes
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00:52<Phil25>is the samba package compiled with the "--with-msdfs option"
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00:55<mhash>you could get package source and examine debian/rules
00:55<simonrvn>Phil25: how about you download the source package and look?
00:55<jm_>or check if README.Debian mentions it
00:57<Phil25> <simonrvn>: caus if I knew I could do that I wouldve done it??? be more arrogant please! :P
00:57<Phil25>thanks to the others, ill try it
00:58<jm_>well doh, the most obvious thing
00:58<Phil25><-- noob
00:59<tcsetattr>apt-get source samba and look at debian/rules; hopefully the ./configure command is in there
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01:00<simonrvn>Phil25: ...
01:00<Phil25>lol...thanks, I thought it was a package with -sources in it :P
01:01[~]simonrvn resists saying something actually obnoxious and puts Phil25 on /ignore instead
01:01<chuy_max>does anyone know an app to do symbolic integrations?
01:02<tcsetattr>octave doesn't do that?
01:03<chuy_max>tcsetattr. I've followed 2 tutorials so far, and all they show you is how to get the area
01:04<tcsetattr>hmm... yacas does it
01:04<chuy_max>I've asked in #gnu @ freenode and someone told me that it is not likely, as " Octave is a numerical analysis prog, not a symbolic analysis."
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01:06<tcsetattr>although it seems to be very slow at it.
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01:08<jm_>of course there's always costly solution called derive or mathematica or ...
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01:18<chuy_max>tcsetattr, I have another question though, what's the difference between a "Computing Algebra System" and a numerical analysis application?
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01:28<euthymos>I've installed Munin
01:29<euthymos>It's great, except I don't understand what the 'm' measuring unit under "mysql queries" stands for
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01:30<tcsetattr>I dunno, I'm not a mathematician
01:31<tcsetattr>euthymos: million?
01:31<sep>or milli ? :)
01:31<sep>eg if you have very few quesries
01:31<tcsetattr>maybe just "mysqls" :)
01:31<sep>less then 1 a second
01:31<euthymos>come on! :)
01:32<euthymos>I have Avg: 300.00u select queries
01:32<euthymos>please not the 'u'
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01:32<euthymos>Max: 29.59m select queries
01:33<euthymos>this is quite misterious, indeed
01:33<sep>euthymos, i have average 2.26 select/second, adn that is with abotu 200 domains all using php+sql sitse
01:33<sep>euthymos, besides you want to have select low (and cache_hits high)
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01:34<euthymos>yes I see
01:34<euthymos>but what those units stand for?
01:34<sep>euthymos, i'd exepct milli
01:34<sep>standard si notation
01:34<euthymos>and 'u' ?
01:34<sep>micro :)
01:35<euthymos>but micro is greek mu
01:35<euthymos>(in the SI notation)
01:36<tcsetattr>u is the ascii mu.
01:36<sep>i guess he didnt find the µ
01:36<tcsetattr>rrd does use metric prefixes, so it really might be 0.02959 queries per second
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01:39<tcsetattr>2557 per day
01:39<tcsetattr>reasonable number?
01:39<tcsetattr>(assuming it holds at that average level for an entire day, which it probably won't since nobody's usage patterns are perfectly spread out across the day)
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01:40<euthymos>the server is, by now, a test server with only one website
01:40<tcsetattr>29.59 milliqueries per second it is then
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01:41<euthymos>I see
01:41<euthymos>it is realistic
01:41<euthymos>thank you a lot
01:41<tcsetattr>send it a flood of queries until the next graph update and see if it loses the m :)
01:41<jm_>indeed, it's abbreviation for milli, it also uses M and so on
01:42<sep>if you querie the same data all the time, it should show under cache_hits and not under selects i belive
01:43<euthymos>yes there's a bunch of cache_hits
01:44<euthymos>I suppose that's good
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02:07<indraveni>i want to install from a usb stick for whch i followed the documentation from, and created the usb stick
02:08<indraveni>but when i am tring to boot with this usb stick, its showing a message MBR 1234FA and stops , doesn;t boot further
02:08<indraveni>what may be the problem
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02:21<indraveni>i am seeing one more problem here, that is, after i allowed to boot from usb and it dint work, i tried to see the contents of the the usb stick, but i am not able to see anything in the dmesg output
02:21<indraveni>that is the system is not detecting the silesystem type
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02:28<tcsetattr>you finally got that usb thing built, huh
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02:58<EmleyMoor>I am hoping to move over to as "standard package" a kernel as I can get - I have just installed the package linux-image-2.6-686, which depends on the latest, and it brought the initramfs tools with it - however, looking at the generated initramfs, I cannot see if it will load the hpt366 module ahead of the one for the onboard IDE... can anyone advise what I need to look at to understand it?
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03:04<EmleyMoor>OK - when I come to try it I will note any message that seems to relate to failure to boot and then seek help
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03:28<bcochofel>I need a gui for my gps device. I have gpsd running and working, also I have gpsdrive
03:28<bcochofel>I'm looking for a simple gui so I can see the coords and I don't need the map. Can someone point me a program for this?
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03:34<blarson>bcochofel: xgps ?
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03:53<DeFender1031>hello, my laptop has an internal card reader. It detects the card, but when i try to copy more than like 3 files to it at once, it loses contact with the card, then redetects a second later, and my files that were already copied are gone. How do I fix this?
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03:56<padski>DeFender1031, dunno. I take it the card reader appears as a usb device ?
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03:58<padski>DeFender1031, I have seen similar behaviour with other usb devices. From what I recall (In my case at least) it was fixed by using a different usb chipset (changed the usb card, back in the days before machines had them built-in).
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03:59<DeFender1031>padski, huh?
03:59<padski>DeFender1031, since it seems likely to be eihter a hardware or driver problem, and it is not easy for you to change the hardware, you should figure which drivers you are using and then look for support.
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04:00<DeFender1031>how do i do that? modconf?
04:01<padski>DeFender1031, which would probably mean going upstream, unless you luck into someone else with similar kit. It would be well worth your while to google for folk who have had simlar problems (and may have found the solution) with the same kit.
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04:02<DeFender1031>i tried
04:02<padski>DeFender1031, yes, it will be a stack of kernel modules. lsusb should give you vendor and part id which is good to google on.
04:02<DeFender1031>no relevant hits that i could see
04:02<padski>what does lsub tell you
04:03<padski>sorry, lsusb
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04:05<padski>really ??
04:08<DeFender1031>it returns 1 for some reason...
04:08<DeFender1031>do i need to be root?
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04:15<padski>DeFender1031, quite possibly
04:16<DeFender1031>it'd be nice if it'd actually TELL me rather than returning 1
04:16<padski>although it seems to work for me here as an unprivileged user
04:16<DeFender1031>yeah it worked
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04:17<DeFender1031>ok, what am i looking for here?
04:17<padski>you should get a bunch of lines like "Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000"
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04:18<padski>IIRC that number at the end 0000:0000 in this case is the vendor/part id which is good to google. in particular these are the numbers often used in source to identify a bit of hw from a driver
04:19<padski>(obviously 0000:0000 is not a device at all)
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04:20<shnastybiznastic>just verifying what the good folks in #debian on freenode told me: is /debian-boot a good place to ask about problems with debootstrap and debtakeover?
04:20<DeFender1031>padski, okay, but the only things that have devices listed are equivalent to my keyboard mouse, my 2 hard drives, and my hub... i don't even see the sd reader here
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04:20<DeFender1031>(yes it's currently mounted)
04:21<padski>DeFender1031, maybe it is not usb then. whatever it is it would still help to identify the hardware and the driver.
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04:21<padski>does it show up in lspci ?
04:22<DeFender1031>08:06.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCIxx12 Cardbus Controller
04:22<DeFender1031>this guy?
04:23<padski>maybe. I would think that would be a bridge to what they used to call PCMCIA
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04:23<padski>but I'm not sure.
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04:25<DeFender1031>it's not that guy
04:25<DeFender1031>it's this guy
04:25<DeFender1031>08:06.2 Mass storage controller: Texas Instruments 5-in-1 Multimedia Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO/xD)
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04:33<padski>DeFender1031, that may be enough to google, but there is an option to lspci -n that will give you numbers
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04:36<DeFender1031>i googled, all the hits are for people whose readers are not working at all, here it's working, but failing
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04:44<schoppenhauer>hello. how can i tell module-assistant not to use the latest version of the gcc. i changed the link of /usr/bin/gcc to /usr/bin/gcc-3.4, but it still seems to use gcc-4.1
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04:49<jm_>schoppenhauer: it would use compiler specified in Makefile(s)
04:49<Eulex>schoppenhauer, is your kernel built using gcc 3.4?
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04:51<schoppenhauer>Eulex: i dont know, but i found some page telling me that the error i get when trying to modprobe a module is caused by the fact that i compiled it with the wrong gcc. i am using the standard-debian-kernel from the package and m-a a-i.
04:51<Eulex>schoppenhauer, exactly what kernel?
04:52<schoppenhauer>Eulex: 2.6.21-2-486
04:52<Eulex>schoppenhauer, that kernel surely wasn't built with a pre-4.0 gcc.
04:53<schoppenhauer>Eulex: i am trying to configure my soundcard - an usb-soundcard - but when plugging it in seems like it tries to modprobe some modules but gets version conflicts.
04:53<lupine>modinfo /path/to/a/module.ko will give you the GCC version you need
04:53<Eulex>schoppenhauer, this sound card needs modules not present in the vanilla kernel?
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04:54<schoppenhauer>Eulex: i dont know. i installed alsa via module-assistant. all modules should be there and i think all needed modules are modprobed but dmesg gives strange error messages and it doesnt work.
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04:55<Eulex>schoppenhauer, emh, all alsa modules are by default _included_ with your kernel, no need to compile them.
04:55<lupine>eh, or used to
04:55<schoppenhauer>Eulex: i always had to compile them even for my old soundcard.
04:55<schoppenhauer>Eulex: and it was _pretty_ old
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04:56<Eulex>lupine, hmm?
04:56<Eulex>schoppenhauer, would have been the case with a 2.4.x kernel, but not with the 2.6.x kernels.
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04:58<schoppenhauer>Eulex: these are the right things. snd_hwdeb and snd_usb_audio. after that snd_rawmidi, etc., should be modprobed, too, i think it just doesnt to that because of these errors.
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04:59<schoppenhauer>Eulex: (output of dmesg)
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05:00<schoppenhauer>Eulex: any suggestion?
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05:01<lupine>you're mixing two different versions of alsa?
05:02<Eulex>schoppenhauer, all those kernel modules _are_ supplied by your kernel package.
05:02<Eulex>schoppenhauer, get rid of that custom compiled alsa, try again.
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05:03<padski>DeFender1031, so it is the tifm driver. looks to be under active development. see take a look at their bug tracker, see if anything fits.
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05:07<DeFender1031>padski, huh?
05:08<DeFender1031>is this the driver included in lenny?
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05:12<padski>DeFender1031, it is is the mainline kernel since about 2.6.17 I think I read
05:13<padski>ineteresting comment in
05:14<padski>"For your device, both sdhci and tifm_sd may be loaded by kernel, which is bad. You have to blacklist one of them. " not sure whether that will apply to you, but it might be worth a try
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05:16<DeFender1031>which should i get rid of?
05:16<DeFender1031>btw, is this through modconf?
05:17<padski>/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist I think
05:18<padski>as to which one. dunno, he seems to be saying either. try it and see :-) I think the tifm drivers must at least add some value
05:19<DeFender1031>so what do i do with this?
05:19<DeFender1031>/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist doesn't exist
05:20<padski>strange, I have it on etch machines.
05:20<dpkg>In etch, lenny and sid, edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "install module_name /bin/true". IMPORTANT: ask about blacklist-initramfs. For sarge ask me about <blacklist sarge>.
05:21<padski>that's a bit strange too. I would have just added another line like the ones there already :-)
05:22<DeFender1031>my computer is a bit strange... last night i discovered rpc running on port 34224 for no apparent reason...
05:22<padski>the blacklist option is documented in modprobe.conf(5)
05:23<DeFender1031>but if the file doesn't exist...
05:24<padski>do you have /etc/modprobe.d/ ?
05:25<padski>the man page says: "/etc/modprobe.conf (or, if that does not exist, all iles under the /etc/modprobe.d directory)" the name of the file blacklist is not special
05:27<padski>DeFender1031, this sounds like your problem:
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05:28<DeFender1031>close, but i don't have to re-insert
05:28<padski>have you tried this no_dma=1 option ?
05:29<DeFender1031>what nodma=1 option?
05:31<padski>the one mentioned in that ticket
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05:35<DeFender1031>i don't see anything like that...
05:36<DeFender1031>oh, wait
05:36<DeFender1031>i see it
05:36<DeFender1031>some svn thing
05:36<DeFender1031>i don't get how to do this
05:36<padski>DeFender1031, which kernel are you using anyway, the .21 in lenny ?
05:39<padski>anyway, best I can think of is you file a bug there, and see what the developers can do to help you resolve your problem.
05:40<DeFender1031>.21 yes
05:40<padski>and/or you could file one against the kernel in debian
05:40<DeFender1031>but if it's the same bug then why should i file another one?
05:41<padski>DeFender1031, you said the symptoms were different. maybe it is the same and maybe it is not. hard to know without fixing it :-)
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05:45<D-Fender1031>padski, have you said anything since my last message?
05:46<padski>D-Fender1031, yes I said this: DeFender1031, you said the symptoms were different. maybe it is the same and maybe it is not. hard to know without fixing it :-)
05:47<D-Fender1031>well assuming it is the same, how do i go about the fix given?
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05:50<padski>D-Fender1031, I assume the reason the bug is open on the system is that it is not considered fixed. the reported, mastapete, reports that he doesn't see it using the no_dma=1 option. you could add that option. on debian modules.conf is automatically generated. it says read the manpage for update-modules.
05:51<D-Fender1031>in other words?
05:51<padski>D-Fender1031, its been a long time since I did this, but I think you do something like add a local file under /etc/modutils
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05:52<padski>with a line in it something like "options tifm_sd no_dma=1"
05:52<nubbun>Are bugs on "testing" packages more likely to be fixed than "stable"?
05:53<padski>and then run update-modules. you probably want to check it gets into the resulting modules.conf
05:53<jm_>nubbun: of course
05:53<padski>nubbun, there is a fairly strict definition of what will be fixed in a stable point release
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05:54[~]nubbun considers switching to testing.
05:54<D-Fender1031>what file?
05:54<padski>D-Fender1031, add a local file under /etc/modutils
05:55<D-Fender1031>what do you mean local file?
05:55<padski>I would call it "local" myself
05:55<padski>that is what I mean :-)
05:55<D-Fender1031>ah, like a file NAMED local
05:55<padski>well, that would be its function too, and it is the function I was trying to highlight
05:56<D-Fender1031>okay, create a file named local containing that line
05:56<D-Fender1031>then run update-modules
05:56<D-Fender1031>The update-modules command is deprecated and should not be used!
05:56<D-Fender1031>thant's what it gives me
05:57<padski>D-Fender1031, probably best hold fire there :-)
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05:58<padski>D-Fender1031, sorry about that. it would appear it has all changed when I wasn't looking
05:59<D-Fender1031>so what's the correct way to do it?
05:59<padski>better if someone else could help you with that bit
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06:00<D-Fender1031>someone else?
06:00<padski>although I would be surprised to discover it is much the same thing but under /etc/modprobe.d
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06:00<seanius>what's going on?
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06:01<D-Fender1031>ah, seanius, good to sea you
06:01<D-Fender1031>sd card problems
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06:01<D-Fender1031>apparently i need to add some no_dma=1 option but i don't know how
06:02<seanius>ah, then just echo "options modulename options..." >> /etc/modprobe.conf
06:02<D-Fender1031>what is this: "options modulename options..."?
06:03<seanius>replace modulename with the name of the module and options... with the options you want to set
06:03<D-Fender1031>ah, so in this case options tifm_sd no_dma=1
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06:04<D-Fender1031>done, now what?
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06:05<D-Fender1031>seanius, done now what?
06:05<seanius>rmmod the module if it's loaded, and then the next time it's loaded it should load with those options
06:05<EuDarth>i cant see anyone!
06:05<D-Fender1031>seanius, would a reboot do the same thing?
06:06<seanius>D-Fender1031: yeah
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06:06<D-Fender1031>okay, be back in a minute
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06:07<EuDarth>hello anybody!
06:08<seanius>EuDarth: we're all here
06:08<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with or is a guru/expert of [someprogram]. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use [someprogram]?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <sicco> <ask-to-ask> <polls>
06:08<EuDarth>but i dont see anyone?
06:08<EuDarth>but i dont see anyone!
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06:08<EuDarth>where is the list of people in chanel?
06:08<seanius>lol ftw are you talking about
06:09<padski>i see 296
06:09<EuDarth>who is in the chat? Who is the people?
06:09<EuDarth>im blind! heheh
06:10<seanius>i don't know how to use xchat, maybe you could try something more gui-friendly like gaim/pidgin?
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06:11<DeFender1031>seanius, now it doesn't recognize it at all
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06:11<EuDarth>seanius, thanks!
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06:13<seanius>DeFender1031: hmm... if you comment the line out and do modprobe tifm_sd no_dma=1 do you get a similar problem?
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06:14<DeFender1031>comment the line out and do your line in the same file?
06:14<seanius>open up /etc/modprobe.conf and comment out the line at the very bottom, which should be the line you added just before rebooting
06:15<DeFender1031>what's a comment here? pound sign?
06:15<DeFender1031>btw, the ONLY line in the file is my line
06:15<seanius>yeah, and yes the file doesn't exist by default
06:15<DeFender1031>so i added your line
06:15<DeFender1031>going for reboot
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06:16<seanius>you really don't need to...
06:16<padski>that save 18 chars that does.
06:17<padski>echo "rmmod tifm_sd && modprobe tifm_sd" | wc -c
06:17<padski>echo "shutdown -r now" | wc -c
06:17<padski>or if you have a mouse ...
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06:20<padski>seanius, did you get the impression he added "modprobe tifm_sd no_dma=1" to the modprobe.conf file ?
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06:22<DeFender1031>seanius, okay, it detects with your line, trying to write now...
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06:22<padski>DeFender1031, did you add "modprobe tifm_sd no_dma=1" to the modprobe.conf file ?
06:23<padski>and that works ? cool! :-)
06:23<DeFender1031>however, it still crashes
06:23<seanius>huh, that should be a syntax error
06:23<seanius>the second thing i told you was to be done fromt he cmdline, not put in the file :)
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06:24<DeFender1031>wait, so what am i supposed to do?
06:24<seanius>so this is a driver for some kind of removable storage card?
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06:24<DeFender1031>seanius, yes, sd
06:25<seanius>okay, try the following steps: (a) remove the card
06:25<seanius>(b) run: rmmod tifm_sd
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06:25<seanius>(c) have everything related to the tifm_sd stuff commented out in modprobe.conf
06:26<DeFender1031>it is
06:26<seanius>in /etc/modprobe.conf
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06:26<DeFender1031>all commented out
06:26<seanius>(d) run: modprobe tifm_sd no_dma=1
06:26<seanius>(e) insert the card
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06:27<DeFender1031>no detect
06:27<flami>Where do apps that run in KDE put the logs ? or where could a look at a log when an app crashed in kde ?
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06:27<flami>( yes somewhere in /var/log ;) )
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06:28<DeFender1031>seanius, no detect
06:28<seanius>DeFender1031: if you repeat the above a-e steps, only in step d don't provide the no_dma=1 option, does it detect them?
06:28<DeFender1031>hang on
06:28<DeFender1031>so step d i just run modprobe tifm_sd?
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06:29<padski>flami, I think you'll be lucky to find much under /var/log from desktop apps. is the crash repeatable ? is there a core somewhere ?
06:30<DeFender1031>yes, it detects
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06:30<flami>thing is I run that app over night to download stuff and then when i wake up its gone :/
06:30<flami>even if its not done downloading
06:30<seanius>DeFender1031: can you paste the output of dmesg?
06:30<DeFender1031>but i'm getting all sorts of end_request: I/O errors
06:30<DeFender1031>yeah sure
06:30<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
06:30<flami>so i thought there might be some trace of that shutdown in a log
06:30<padski>flami, run it from the command line ?
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06:32<flami>oh that might be a possibility
06:32<flami>forgot about that ^^
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06:33<D-Fender1031>crap, what'd i miss?
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06:35<seanius>oy that's a lot of noise
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06:35<D-Fender1031>seanius, i think it's coming from the sd card
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06:36<seanius>yeah. what parms does it tell you about if you run modinfo tifm_sd
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06:37<harpal>When I do ping to any ip address than it tells me ping: sendmsg: Invalid argument. whats problem?
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06:38<prahal>harpal, firewall issue
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06:39<seanius>huh. i don't see why passing no_dma would prvent it from seeing the card
06:39<D-Fender1031>shall i try no dma again and see what dmesg gives me?
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06:40<D-Fender1031>there went my ghost
06:40<D-Fender1031>...for the 500th time
06:40<seanius>yeah, but first do "dmesg -c"
06:40<seanius>that'll clear all the crap out
06:41<harpal>prahal: that means I have firewall is blocking that ping? so I should see firewall rules
06:41<D-Fender1031>seanius, what were the steps again?
06:42<prahal>yes . iptables -L -v for the hard core version of it. Any firewall gui/script you have otherwise. dmesg will shows you the errors
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06:45<prahal>I use firestarter or guarddog
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06:46<D-Fender1031>seanius, i did it
06:47<D-Fender1031>apparently it DOES detect it with the option, just the errors get worse and doesn't even make it to kde's autoplay
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06:53<seanius>at $work...
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06:54<D-Fender1031>oh right
06:54<seanius>D-Fender1031: it's possible that without dma the performance is lousy
06:54<D-Fender1031>you mean lousier
06:55<D-Fender1031>so basically i need to continue borrowing an external reader until such time as this driver is updated... cause it doesn't look like there's a solution right now
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06:56<seanius>that sounds likely. is this module part of the linux kernel or seperately built?
06:56<D-Fender1031>no idea
06:57<D-Fender1031>all i know is that it didn't work at all until i upgraded from etch to lenny
06:57<D-Fender1031>then i tried it again and it sort of started working
06:57<seanius>ah, so then it is part of the kernel
06:57<seanius>er, part of the kernel package
06:58<D-Fender1031>i deleted a bunch of stuff off of it intending to re-organize it, and when i tried to copy onto it, this problem started
06:58<D-Fender1031>okay then
06:59<D-Fender1031>i think padski said something about something that needed to be blacklisted that might help also
06:59<D-Fender1031>how do i do that?
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07:00<harpal>prahal: I have stopped that firewall but still I have same problem
07:01<seanius>D-Fender1031: you can blacklist a module by puting a line with the two words "blacklist modulename" in /etc/modprobe.conf
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07:01<harpal>its showing me link up but I cant ping and I get that same error
07:01<seanius>where modulename is the name of the module
07:02<jm_>no that doesn't work
07:02<seanius>but if the module is already loaded (lsmod | grep modulename) then you will need to remove it manually or reboot
07:02<dpkg>In etch, lenny and sid, edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "install module_name /bin/true". IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. For sarge ask me about <blacklist sarge>.
07:02<prahal>harpal, iptables -L -v shows you empty firewall rules ? I am not confident stopping the firewall deactivate its rules. In guarddog you have to explicitely tell it to disable them
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07:03<prahal>nb: are the rules with ACCEPT or DROP policy
07:03<seanius>jm_: are you sure about that? my etch system has blacklist documented
07:03<D-Fender1031>umm, seanius, you're telling me different than dpkg is, which do i follow?
07:03<jm_>seanius: yes (it is documented, but does something different)
07:04<D-Fender1031>so which do i do?
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07:05<seanius>unfortuantely the only etch system i have to play with atm is on the other side of the atlantic, so i can't verify this :/
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07:06<seanius>what dpkg says will work though, so if in doubt...
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07:08<D-Fender1031>well whatever, i used modconf to remove it. doesn't help
07:09<seanius>guess you'll either need to learn a lot about building kernel modules out-of-tree or wait for a newer kernel/driver then :(
07:09<padski>could try the .22 kernel in sid perhaps
07:09<stuart>i cant startx. Maybe some xlock file? How do I overcome?
07:09<D-Fender1031>guess so... till then i'll use an external usb reader
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07:09<D-Fender1031>padski, sid has its own drawbacks
07:10<jm_>you can only use the kernel from it
07:10<padski>D-Fender1031, you only need the kernel. what drawbacks ?
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07:10<D-Fender1031>jm_, padski how do i tell apt to install just a single package from sid without the rest?
07:10<padski>carefully :-)
07:11<prahal>apt pinning
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07:11<padski>prahal, that's overkill for whats being suggested here.
07:11<prahal>never used it (I am addicted to sid) .
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07:12<D-Fender1031>padski, is there an option to pass apt to tell it to do so?
07:12<jm_>D-Fender1031: download it from p.d.o
07:13<flo_>is there a debian-specific KDE irc channel?
07:13<padski>D-Fender1031, you (1) add sid to your /etc/apt/sources.list (2) apt-get install linux-image-blah (check that it doesn't want to install anything else) (3) remove sid line from sources.list.
07:13<jm_>flo_: yes
07:13<stuart>can someone help me to start gnome
07:13<flo_>channel #?
07:13<jm_>!start gnome
07:13<dpkg>[starting gnome] echo exec /usr/bin/gnome-session > ~/.xsession
07:13<dpkg>kde is probably a desktop environment based on the Qt toolkit. See for release news and other details, or not a window manager, or ask your questions about it in #debian-kde, or ask me about <kde_trouble>
07:14<D-Fender1031>but it's possible that doing so might screw something else up. i basically have my computer running the way i want it aside from this and one other minor thing.
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07:15<D-Fender1031>i have found that running linux is a very delicate matter, and that even upgrading to a new version can bring about unwanted effects
07:17<stuart>let me re-phrase: i login via the gnome splash screen... and I get a blank (but not black) screen. What gives?
07:17<padski>D-Fender1031, if you are carefull you won't install anything other than an additional kernel. there is a small risk that you might hit some heretofore unknown but catastrophic bug in that kernel, but it is very small. there are sometimes kernel/driver/hardware related utilities that will need upgrading in tandem, and I suppose the whole procedure cannot be guaranteed to be safe for all time, but right now I think the worst that will
07:17<padski>happen is that some stuff won't work and youl'l boot back to the lenny kernel.
07:19<padski>D-Fender1031, I couldn't even tell you that any bug in this driver is fixed between the two versions.
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07:20<D-Fender1031>padski, i'd rather play it relatively safe, this isn't important enough to warrant the risk
07:20<D-Fender1031>especially given that the chances of it helping are also low
07:20<seanius>D-Fender1031: there are other distributions that try to sand down some of the rough edges, but usually at the cost of dumbing down the whole experience
07:20<D-Fender1031>seanius, what do you mean?
07:21<seanius>08:15 < D-Fender1031> i have found that running linux is a very delicate matter, and that even<snip>
07:21<D-Fender1031>well yes
07:21<D-Fender1031>but a lot of times they remove the option to even have drivers for more obscure things
07:22<D-Fender1031>as long as i'm here i may as well ask
07:22<D-Fender1031>how are multiple network cards handled?
07:22<petemc>in what way?
07:23<D-Fender1031>it seems like every time i switch from eth to wireless or vice-versa i have to restart both of them, and i lose my connection for a bit. is there a way to have it just try one and if it doesn't work, try the other, without me having to manually switch?
07:23<petemc>there are apps to do that
07:23<petemc>network manager type apps
07:23<D-Fender1031>what apps?
07:24<jm_>search for "laptop net" or so
07:24<D-Fender1031>laptop-net - Automatically adapt laptop ethernet
07:24<D-Fender1031>this one wikll do that?
07:24<seanius>D-Fender1031: are you using X yet or only console?
07:25<D-Fender1031>X for what? apting or in general?
07:25<seanius>istr last time you hadn't set up a graphical desktop yet
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07:26<D-Fender1031>seanius, you must have misunderstood, my X was malfunctioning and i could only access via console, that problem has been fixed
07:26<seanius>ah, okay then. have you tried network-manager?
07:27<D-Fender1031>i have tried nothing
07:27<D-Fender1031>network-manager does what?
07:27<seanius>there are kde and gnome frontends to it, i only have experience with it
07:27<D-Fender1031>(manages the network obviously)
07:27<padski>D-Fender1031, this might help:
07:27<D-Fender1031>but what does it REALLY do?
07:28<stuart>can someone plse try help with my previous Gnome question
07:28<seanius>generally "The Right Thing(tm)" when you plug/unplug/enter/leave networks
07:28<padski>stuart, please repeat
07:28<D-Fender1031>seanius, in other words, it will switch without my help?
07:29<seanius>it sucks horribly if you're trying to do anything other than simple setups, but for what it does, it does it whell
07:29<stuart>padski: (this is actually ubuntu... but same as..) I get the Gnome login screen and
07:29<seanius>D-Fender1031: it should, yes
07:29<stuart>i login only to get a blank, but not black screen
07:29<D-Fender1031>seanius, what do you mean anything other than simple setups?
07:29<stuart>padski: i think it is some xlock thing
07:29<stuart>padski: whatever that is
07:30<padski>stuart, what colour is blank but not black ?
07:30<stuart>padski: chocolate brown, as in ubuntu brown
07:30<seanius>for example, you can't have two active connections at the same time, and it doesn't get along with other tools
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07:30<seanius>if you have a wired connection and a wireless connection, it wil always take the wired one
07:30<padski>stuart, well you know, really I should send you to #ubuntu ? :-)
07:30<D-Fender1031>what other tools?
07:30<stuart>padski: I also get a mouse pointer
07:31<stuart>padksi: nooooo ooooooo
07:31<seanius>D-Fender1031: network-manager takes a "there can be only one" approach, so effectively *all* tools
07:31<stuart>padski: there are 5 pple in that room... lol
07:32<petemc>on freenode
07:32<seanius>so any custom setup you had with /etc/network/interfaces or ifup/ifdown hooks go away
07:32<seanius>and it becomes much harder to have custom routing or firewall rules
07:33<seanius>but like i said, if all you need is the basics, it works great
07:33<D-Fender1031>all of our network security is router-side... mac filters, no broadcasting, a complicated ssid
07:33<D-Fender1031>all i need on my side is the ssid really
07:33<D-Fender1031>that should do it right?
07:33<padski>stuart, xlock would bring up a password dialog if you hit the keyboard I think
07:34<seanius>yeah, i would guess so
07:34<seanius>you can always try it o ut and remove it if you don't like it
07:34<D-Fender1031>how do i get to the gui?
07:34<seanius>apt-get install network-manager-gnome or network-manager-kde
07:34<padski>stuart, you could switch to a VC and look see what is going on
07:35<seanius>(never tried the kde frontend actually)
07:35<stuart>padski: i think im telling you the wrong thing... i cant duplicate it now but at one point i got a message to the affect xserver already running and something about an xlock file (as i said i can't get this message again, but it was via something like "startx" from the command prompt)
07:36<D-Fender1031>seanius, did the kde one already
07:36<D-Fender1031>now how do i get to it?
07:37<D-Fender1031>do i have to reboot for this to take effect?
07:37<stuart>padski: from the brown screen i ctrl alt f4, enter my login credentials and as su type startx
07:38<seanius>try logging out and logging back in first
07:38<seanius>if that doesn't work then try rebooting
07:38<D-Fender1031>if i'm gonna do that, i may as well reboot
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07:38<stuart>padski: then I get the message xserver already running (which i guess it is although gnome is brown,,,) Does that help?
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07:39<stuart>padski: and the message "if server is no longer running remove x0-lock"
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07:42<padski>stuart, lol, when I get to my windowing system the first I do is start a terminal :-)
07:43<stuart>padski: you mean you want me to login in single user mode?
07:43<DeFender1031>seanius, okay, how do i add a network here?
07:43<stuart>padski: so it doesnt try load gnome?
07:44<padski>stuart, the idea would be for you to use command line tools to try to determine what is going on, since the gui sounds to be non-functional. I'm afraid I can't talk you through that in detail right now, but perhaps someone else here will.
07:45<stuart>padski: is that something you can possibly help me with another day?
07:45<padski>stuart, is #ubuntu really that bad ??
07:45<stuart>padski: ill give them a go, but there were like 5 pple in the room...
07:46<padski>stuart, think quality not quantity :-)
07:47<stuart>padski: i need to join freenode - they claim hundreds of ubuntu users lol
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07:47<seanius>DeFender1031: if it's like gnome there should be a new icon in your "system tray"
07:47<stuart>padski: i'll give that a go. Thanks and ciao for now
07:47<DeFender1031>yeah, i see it
07:47<padski>stuart, good luck
07:48<DeFender1031>but nothing here looks like it lets me add anything
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07:48<stuart>padski: thanks
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07:48<DeFender1031>in addition, it says "no network device found"
07:48<seanius>DeFender1031: hm... what's in /etc/network/interfaces ?
07:49<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
07:49<seanius>:) you can also pm dpkg, who will answer with the same text privately
07:50<DeFender1031>seanius, oh
07:50<DeFender1031>will do next time
07:51<seanius>try commenting out all the lines for your eth devices and rebooting. n-m in debian is patched not to mess around with most devices that it finds in the interfaces file
07:51<seanius>but this also means that you don't have networking until you login to the system... not so nice for headless servers
07:51<seanius>or actually maybe it still works for standard dhcp, i don't remember
07:52<seanius>basically my approach is to use ifup/ifdown/interfaces on servers and n-m on laptops
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07:53<seanius>DeFender1031: if you have devices set up in /etc/network/interfaces, network manager may not "see" them
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07:53<DeFender1031>and if i don't have them there?
07:53<seanius>then it will see them, but it may or may not configure them until you login to your system
07:53<DeFender1031>what do you mean by login to my system?
07:54<DeFender1031>like kde login?
07:54<seanius>get into gnome/kde
07:54<DeFender1031>oh, that i don't care about
07:54<DeFender1031>when wouyld i be using the network if i'm, not logged in?
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07:54<seanius>right, but if you were runnign a server, or a workstation that needed to authenticate against ldap or active directory, it would kinda suck
07:55<DeFender1031>so which lines should i comment out?
07:55<seanius>everything regarding eth0 and eth1
07:56<seanius>so from your paste the first line that mentions eth0 to the end of the file
07:57<DeFender1031>eth0 and eth2 you mean... eth1 is firewire i think..
07:57<DeFender1031>but that will remove the allow hotplug line
07:57<seanius>i wonder if anyone actually *uses* the firewire ethernet driver
07:58<DeFender1031>but i want hotplug enabled
07:58<DeFender1031>does n-m do that itself?
07:58<seanius>DeFender1031: it should still work
07:58<seanius>and if it doesn't you can always un-comment it :)
07:58<seanius>actually, there's probably a readme with all this in it
07:59<DeFender1031>so comment it out, reboot and see if it works, if not, uncomment it and try something else
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07:59<seanius>sounds like a plan
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08:00<DeFender1031>okay, rebooting... can't work on this for much longer though, i have class, you gonna be around in about 2 hours?
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08:01<seanius>no need for the extra poking
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08:01<seanius>i'll probably be just about to head home, and then unavailable for a few hours
08:01<DeFender1031>well thanks anyway
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08:07<DeFender1031>seanius, i commented that stuff out, yet i still have internet, and it still isn't recognizing it
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08:10<orjan>I get all of my log from iptables in console, I seem to remember changing klogd or syslog any factoid or link?
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08:11<gsimmons>orjan: Probably better done with ulogd.
08:11<dpkg>i heard ulogd is an userspace netfilter extension that allows proper firewall logging. It's currently in development and contains bugs, see, or ulogd 0.97 (woody) doesn't work with kernels >= 2.4.18 (see
08:12<seanius>DeFender1031: so you commented all those lines out and rebooted, and your network still came up?
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08:12<DeFender1031>weird huh?
08:12<seanius>that's... wierd...
08:13<jm_>!printk console
08:13<dpkg>printk console is, like, see docs for sysctl and set kernel.printk to 3 4 1 7 or so. You can also use 'dmesg -n1' command. If you want to know what those numbers mean, see the file Documentation/filesystems/proc.txt in your kernel sources.
08:13<jm_>orjan: ^^^^^
08:13<DeFender1031>anyway, i gotta go
08:13<orjan>jm_: and gsimmons ok thanks, off to read...
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08:36<dpkg>rumour has it, ru is Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
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08:53<x03>someone here use mutt whith multiple imaps accounts?
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08:59<Xenguy>x03: I just use mutt for pop3 mail - tried #mutt tho?
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08:59<x03>without sucess
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09:15<gsimmons>x03: Take a look at "multiple accounts" on the mutt wiki <>.
09:16<x03>yes gsimmons i have that bue does not work for me
09:16<seanius>x03: i love mutt, but last time i tried its support for multiple imaps (or even a single imaps) was really sucky
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09:17<x03>with a single account works fine
09:17<x03>seems the problem is in hooks directives
09:17<seanius>what's the problem exactly?
09:17<x03>(my directives)
09:17<x03>i have thist
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09:18<seanius>and it's not unsetting the options, is that the problem?
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09:23<x03>seanius: i think no, when i start mutt, i have this: /var/mail/user is not a mailbox
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09:25<devsherif>I want to know the difference between Debian and ubuntu
09:25<x03>seanius: seems that mutt is trying to open not a imapaccount
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09:27<gsimmons>x03: You don't seem to have any folder hooks defined.
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09:27<seanius>dpkg: tell devsherif about ubuntu
09:29|-|mode/#debian [+l 320] by debhelper
09:29<gsimmons>x03: The format of your 'mailboxes' lines are incorrect as well. Refer to the wiki page.
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09:35<bcochofel>Hi, I need a multi-tab console. I've tried mrxvt but mc get's very uggly (I believe no utf8 support)
09:35<bcochofel>I've also tried konsole and gnome-terminal but they have weird behaviours
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09:36<padski>bcochofel, what is weird about konsole ?
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09:36<bcochofel>padski: mc. sometimes works, sometimes doesn't because of the Fnn keys
09:37<bcochofel>padski: also, I was having trouble running vmware has root and even synaptic
09:37<bcochofel>padski: but sometimes works. And I can't figure out the reason
09:38<padski>bcochofel, strange.
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09:39<bcochofel>padski: very
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09:41<bcochofel>His there any other besides the 3 I menctioned?
09:41<bcochofel>padski: by the way, I don't use kde so maybe this could be the reason
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09:45<x03>gsimmons: i put the confile like the wiki page and i have this now:
09:45<x03>gsimmons: but returns the same error
09:46<x03>/var/mail/saint is not a mailbox.
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09:47<hellop>any hints on how I can get my moust to work in icewm?
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09:51<hellop>I see output when I do cat /proc/input/mouse (usb) and cat /proc/psaux
09:51<hellop>But, mouse no worky in X.
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09:53<padski>bcochofel, there doesn't seem to be a tag to reflect the tab feature, but you could look through this:
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09:54<padski>bcochofel, or you could dig through
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09:56<padski>bcochofel, apparently there is a multi-aterm
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09:57<gsimmons>x03: You've a typo on line 9 ("oorg"). You also don't have any initial 'spoolfile' and 'folder' values defined, which is why you're receiving the error. Refer to the section prior to "multiple accounts" on the wiki page.
09:57<padski>doesn't look very active though.
09:57<chicao>what type is your mouse?
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10:00<chicao>if your mouse have scrooll and is ps2 >> /dev/psaux and IMPS2 in xorg.conf
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10:11<junio>I try install simple-cdd-profile. He are in the main session (
10:11<junio>But the aptitude not found her.
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10:12<junio>Any body have idea?
10:12<gsimmons>junio: Are you running Etch?
10:12<junio>gsimmons: nopz! lenny
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10:14<gsimmons>junio: Ah, these packages are intended for use with debian-installer, not for an already-installed system.
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10:15<junio>gsimmons: but I need these to use a simple-cdd :-)
10:16<witte>junio: simple-cdd is a package in lenny
10:16<junio>gsimmons: I down manually then.
10:16<junio>witte: yeap.
10:16<junio>witte: I have simple-cdd installed.
10:17<junio>But her not working because need these simple-cdd-profile
10:17<witte>junio: ok, but then you do not intend to install it on your system, but use it for the cd
10:18<junio>witte: ok. I download manual then ;-)
10:18<witte>junio: so it would be logical that it would not be directly available in lenny?
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10:18<witte>junio: ok
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10:20<padski>that was a very transient meme
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10:27<dpkg>Want to use a newer ATI videocard in sarge? for etch/testing and sid/unstable, just install fglrx-driver and fglrx-kernel-src and read /usr/share/doc/fglrx-kernel-src/README.Debian.gz Try to avoid using ati's stuff directy unless you have to. --- I've heard the driver control panel app needs 32bit libs to compile under 64b, or
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10:35<donfede>hello, i'm on debian unstable, and I cannot get my iceweasel to run java (it shows up in about:plugins, but does not run applets)
10:36<donfede>I downloaded the java-pacakge , and the sun java 6u2 jdk, and created a java package with "make-jpkg jre-1_5_0_06-linux-i586.bin"
10:36<witte>donfede: any reason why you don't use the packages that are in debian?
10:36<dpkg>Java is Sun's cross-platform OO language. Sun partially released java as GPL on Nov 13, 2006 (rest expected to be released in 2007). There are other implentations available in Debian such as 'free-java-sdk' for use with applications like Eclipse. The Sun JRE/JDK is in non-free. Also, ask about <install java>, <non-free>.
10:37<witte>!install java
10:37<dpkg>somebody said install java was First, read <java licensing>. Free java implementations available in debian can be seen by running "apt-cache search java-virtual-machine". if you need to run software not supported by one of the free java implementations (anything not in main), the java-package package (needs a contrib source), then ask me about <java-package> or install the sun-java5-jdk or sun-java6-jdk package from non-free if you're using ...
10:37<donfede>witte: this is for school, so I want to stay close to what they recommend (yes, I read what dpkg has to say about java, that's where I learned of the java-package) ...
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10:38<witte>donfede: well what dpkg said is a bit long, basically, if you install sun-java6-plugin, it should work
10:39<witte>donfede: otherwize, if it shows in about:plugins, it should work as well :-/
10:39<donfede>witte: I've got sun-j2sdk1.6 installed, which has the plugin "link"
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10:39<donfede>witte: it does show up in about:plugins :-(
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10:41<witte>donfede: sorry can't help, i just use the one provided by debian, and that just works
10:41<donfede>witte: ok, let's try it that way (you're referring to the gjc ?)
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10:41<witte>donfede: no, just do apt-get install sun-java6-plugin
10:42<witte>donfede: you need to have non-free in your sources.list
10:42<donfede>witte: from main or one of the others (contrib / non-free) ?
10:44<donfede>witte: do you also have a java jdk installed , or only the plugin?
10:46<witte>donfede: I have the bin, the jre and the plugin installed
10:46<witte>donfede: but i do not know if all are needed for the plugin to work
10:47<witte>donfede: plugin depends on bin and bin depends on jre, so you need at least these three
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10:57<emmetea>any reason why gdm would ail to locate a host when i installed the nvidia drivers for xorg?
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11:00<HoNgOuRu>como hago para hacer aparecer nuevamente la barra de sistema? (la de los progs en abiertos en segundo plano)
11:00<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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11:01<Phil25>When I compile the debian samba source package, I get the error: "sam/idmap_ad.c:62: error: 'LDAP_NO_MEMORY' undeclared (first use in this function)". I have installed ldap-utils ,ldaptor-utils,libldap2-dev, yet still get the error. Is a missing package the cause of this?
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11:03<lupine>Phil25: "apt-get build-deps samba" will install everything needed to compile it
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11:04<witte>instead of build-deps I believe it is build-dep
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11:04<lupine>so it is
11:04<Phil25>thanks, and I was resolving them by hand...
11:04<DTE>hi all
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11:05<DTE>i have some trouble with lvs and a configuration of a cluster
11:05<DTE>i followed the ultramonkey guide
11:05<DTE>but i'm not able to set it up corrctly
11:06<Phil25>grr...didn't fix it, still get "sam/idmap_ad.c:62: error: âLDAP_NO_MEMORYâ undeclared (first use in this function)"
11:07<padski>Phil25, how are you starting the build ?
11:07<Phil25>debian\rules binary
11:07<Phil25>sry debian/rules binary
11:08<padski>what are you on, etch, lenny ?
11:08<lupine>check that all the #include files referenced in the file are present?
11:08<azeem>lupine: you'd get an error otherwise
11:09<lupine>eh, though so; i'm sort of grasping at straws :)
11:09<lupine>hmm. why aren't you using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ?
11:09<Phil25>im repackign it because I want --with-msdap
11:09<Phil25>msdfs sry (waking up)
11:09<lupine>which could require includes not required by the debian build
11:09<Phil25>ill try dkpg-buildpackage
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11:10<witte>Phil25: also have a look at debuild, I do not know what teh difference is with dpkg-buildpackage
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11:12<witte>Phil25: it is part of the devscripts package
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11:12<Phil25>hmm..worried a bit, said "using available packages ____" and pointed to the tars
11:12<Phil25>I modified the 'rules' file in /sambasource/debian
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11:15<Phil25>ok..using kpkg-buildpackage sam/idmap_ad.c compiles without error
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11:16<Phil25>dpkg-source: building samba using existing samba_3.0.24.orig.tar.gz
11:16<Phil25>dpkg-source: building samba in samba_3.0.24-6etch4.diff.gz
11:17<Phil25>this means it won't use my custom rules right?
11:17<azeem>this doesn't mean anything except that you didn't modify debian/changelog, I guess
11:18<azeem>whether or not it uses your custom rules depends on how you implemented them
11:18<Phil25>I added the argument '--with-msdfs' in the "args= \ " part of the rules file
11:19<sheldonh>is it expected behaviour that /etc/profile _not_ be sourced on debian if i do this: ssh user@host 'screen -S sheldonh -ADR'
11:19<azeem>Phil25: so check whether it gets passed/mentioned during the build
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11:24<Phil25>where would the log of the pkpg-buildpackage be?
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11:29<valdyn>Phil25: why would there be a log?
11:30<Phil25>bleh..I just installed it and checked within samba, didnt compile with my arg
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12:13<mridul>anyone here????
12:13<pvdk>no :)
12:13<mridul>he he he
12:14<mridul>well hi pvdk...
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12:14<pvdk>let me guess, ur using debian
12:14<pvdk>just like the rest of the people here
12:14<mridul>he he he
12:14<mridul>but i might be here for a reson unlike others
12:14<pvdk>amazing, tell me
12:15<mridul>well am facing a weird problem
12:15<mridul>am using debian first time
12:15<mridul>it sometimes hangs
12:15<pvdk>ah :)
12:15<pvdk>what hangs
12:15<mridul>or screen goes blank with vertical colerd lines
12:15<mridul>dunno why
12:15<mridul>chaged from gnome to xfce
12:15<mridul>but problem remains
12:15<pvdk>did you install video-card drivers or such?
12:16<fxiny>wrong vert/hor sync ? reconfigure xorg
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12:20<mridul>pvdk you still there???
12:20<mridul>it hanged again.... :-|
12:20<mridul>actually am using 7 year old pc
12:20<mridul>PIII 7000 128 MB RAM
12:20<pvdk>did you install vidcard drivers?
12:20<mridul>no vid card here in y pc
12:21<pvdk>maybe configure the screen
12:21<pvdk>in xfce config section
12:21<pvdk>does crash?
12:21<mridul>actually this happens when i try to run something heavy like web browser or may be synaptic.
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12:22<mridul>it doesn't really crash
12:22<pvdk>just hangs
12:22<mridul>it shows vertical colored lines all over screen
12:22<mridul>nothing visible
12:22<mridul>and just hangs sometime
12:22<mridul>should i use older version of debian
12:22<pvdk>mmh shouldnt matter
12:22<mridul>may be my hardware not sufficient???
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12:23<pvdk>should be sufficient for running debian
12:23<mridul>hey fxiny
12:23<fxiny>as root : dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
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12:23<mridul>so what this reconfigure will do????
12:23<pvdk>i'm curious if that will
12:23<fxiny>make sure your vert and hor sync is correct : PII 400 here ...
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12:24<mridul>actually it's correct... that's why am able to run gd...
12:24|-|tV2 [] has joined #debian
12:24<mridul>and am right now in xfce
12:24<mridul>pvdk: nwhere nshouldn i reportn it?
12:24<fxiny>yes ? so it hangs just sometimes
12:24<pvdk>i dunno maybe ask on forums or something
12:24<mridul>if i run say web browser : iceweasel, epiphany
12:25<mridul>pvdk: hmmmm
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12:25<mridul>acually i was afraid of directly asking on forum...
12:25<sheldonh> could have sworn that the asterisk package automagically created a postgresql database called asterisk for me last time
12:25<fxiny>128 mem only ? is not too much . i have a little more , i run fluxbox which is very light
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12:26<mridul>may be people might find it too generic or stupid to derive soething out of it
12:26<pvdk>xfce is pretty light
12:26<mridul>yup 128 and am facing same problem in xfce
12:26<pvdk>ah i've seen much more triviant problems on forums
12:26<fxiny>what free shows you ?
12:26<mridul>how to see free???
12:26<fxiny>just type free
12:27<Myon>and use less quotation marks
12:27<mridul>hi myon....
12:27<pvdk>swap should be unused or almost unused
12:28<fxiny>128 will swap
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12:28<pvdk>you think
12:29<fxiny>mridul: try browsing using links2 , see what happens
12:29<fxiny>or dillo
12:29<fxiny>a light browser , check opera too
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12:31<pvdk>do you have the problem when you use internet apps only?
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12:33<mridul>damn this pc
12:33<mridul>getting hanged again and again
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12:34<pvdk>do you have the problem when you use internet apps only?
12:34|-|utente [] has quit []
12:34<mridul>it seems so.....
12:34|-|Tjerk [] has joined #debian
12:34<mridul>even IRC hanged....
12:34<Tjerk>Hello,, English or Dutch?
12:34<mridul>me understand only english
12:35<pvdk>Dutch here but english for the rest of us
12:35<Tjerk>Nice :)
12:35<mridul>for a weekend treat i can go dutch
12:35<pvdk>Frieslan tjerk?
12:35<Tjerk>Uiteraard :D
12:35<pvdk>dikke prima
12:35<mridul>:-| :-|
12:35<Tjerk>Heb jij veel verstand van Debian :P?
12:35<pvdk>op sich
12:36<Tjerk>Heb namelijk het volgende probleem
12:36<Tjerk>Ben bezig met RAID1 in te stellen tijdens de installatie van debian
12:36<Tjerk>Maar nu krijg ik fout melding tijdens het installen van raid 1 "er zijn geen RAID partities beschikbaar"
12:36<pvdk>hmm misschien iets met de modules maar ik weet niks van raid
12:37<Tjerk>shit :)
12:37<pvdk>mridul: you should ask your question on a forum couse i don't know what could be the solution to your problem other than reconfiguring your screen
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12:37<mridul>by forum you mean mail ist i suppose
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12:38<pvdk>or the ubuntu forums, etc
12:38<Tjerk>Could someone here help me with a Raid1 problem?
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12:40<pvdk>helpt dit?
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12:45<Tjerk>hmm nice (Y)
12:46<Tjerk>Die howto
12:46<pvdk>kdan :)
12:46<pvdk>google ftw
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12:59<asdfasffff>fgh asdf
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13:09<fatal>"ulimit -c unlimited" gives me operation not permitted.... is it not permitted to dump core files anymore? wtf is going on? Is there by default a hard limit in PAM against core files?
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13:13<james_w>fatal: as a regular user? There is probably a limit on what you can increase it to without permission.
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13:13<fatal>james_w: ulimit -c 1 is not permitted eigther.
13:14<x03>i have a little problem her:
13:14<x03># chroot /mnt/chroot/
13:14<x03>/bin/bash: relocation error: /lib/tls/ symbol _dl_out_of_memory, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file with link time reference
13:14<EmleyMoor>Is it just me or do DVD+RWs have a high failure rate?
13:14<x03>someone know what is this ?
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13:15<james_w>x03: have you looked on google, I think I have seen that before.
13:17<james_w>fatal: does your /etc/security/limits.conf define anything for core?
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13:23<sasha>hi everybody , i ve got a problem with the kernel 2.6.22 could someone plese help me
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13:26<sasha>hi everybody , i ve got a problem with the kernel 2.6.22 could someone plese help me
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13:26<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For Example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
13:27<sasha>ok thank you , sorry it is the first time i come here
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13:30<sasha>so, i ve a problem with a kernel 2.6.22 that i ve just compiled, with the 2.6.18 kernel , in grub , in the line kernel , i ve root/dev/sdax , when i install the 2.6.22, i ve the same line but it don t boot and i ve to change /dev/sdax to /dev/hdax , in fact the problem is resolved but i would like to understand why
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13:31<klys>is no longer compiled into your kernel
13:31<sasha>but i tooked the config from my 2.6.18
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13:31<EmleyMoor>Any particular reason why you use ide-scsi?
13:31<klys>sda = scsi drive A, hda = ide harddrive A
13:32<klys>ide-scsi is good for UDF packet writing support
13:32<sasha>and after boot if i type df , my ide disk is recognize as /dev/sda
13:32<sasha>so i think the module is well compiled
13:32<klys>check /etc/fstab and /etc/mtab, also /proc/mounts
13:32<sasha>Any particular reason why you use ide-scsi? -> it is compiled by default i think
13:33<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... this sounds a little like an initrd issue...
13:33<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... you can do packet writing with it? Interesting
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13:34<sasha>during the initrd process , it display , ide, failed op code was 0x37
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13:35<sasha>but as i said if i change my grub line i don t have any problem anymore , but what do you mean by you can do packet writing with it?
13:35<EmleyMoor>sasha: UDF packet writing to CDs/DVDs - write to them file by file
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13:36<sasha>ok , not tested sorry,
13:36<klys>packet writing is only for rewritable media and a completely unrelated feature
13:37<klys>your linuxrc file from the initrd mount might be telling
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13:37<EmleyMoor>klys: Is there software to support packet writing in stable?
13:37[~]klys uses sid
13:37<klys>lookf for `udftools'
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13:38<sasha>is it possible to boot with a kernel and if it failed , to boot with a good one and see the log from the bad boot
13:39<klys>sasha: there is a qreboot patch, though it is designed to reload on reboot, not on kernel error
13:39<klys>sasha: press shift-pgup
13:39<klys>artem: hil
13:39<sasha>thanks klys ill check all of this
13:40<junio>build the .udeb:
13:40<junio> debuild -us -uc -I.bzr -b
13:40<junio>What´s debuild?
13:40<klys>part of debianutils
13:40<junio>klys: tks ;-)
13:40<klys>look for dpkg-buildpackage -nc
13:41<klys>also, for debuild, see devscripts / pbuilder
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13:42<klys>devscripts is the one
13:42<EmleyMoor>I'm having a huge amount of trouble with DVD+RWs tonight - they all seem to have errors on them - at different points.
13:42<EmleyMoor>What's the easiest way, other than buying a new drive, to be sure it's not my drive
13:42<klys>emleymoor: make sure your firmware is good and patched
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13:44<sasha>still with my buggy kernel, in boot process it display , resume : libcrypt version 1.2.3 resume : could not stat the resume devicefile press enter ....
13:45<sasha>any idea ?
13:45<Magui>hello, I use debian/testing with kde. aptitude has been keeping back a bunch of packages for a few weeks now. most of them are kde-related, though there are a few like cupsys, flac, dvdauthor, xmms, etc. not all packages are kept back. I'm still able to update/upgrade quite a few every week or two weeks. is there a good reason why they are being kept back? or is my system screwed up?
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13:46<klys>sasha: do you have a swap file or a swap partition?
13:46<sasha>klys : yes
13:47<klys>sasha: you'll need a partition for that
13:47<sheldonh>Magui: several kde packages are being kept back because of "new" bugs. e.g. kmail is being kept back because a filtering-related crash appears to be easier to reproduce in 3.5.7 than in 3.5.5
13:48<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to flash new firmware while actually in Linux?
13:48<sasha> sasha: you'll need a partition for that -> i think it is the same sda/hda related problem , where can i configure th e place to search for the swap during the boot
13:48<Magui>sheldonh: OK...that explains all the kde stuff. do you suppose that the other packages (e.g., xmms, cupsys, dvdauthor) might be getting kept back because of the kde problems?
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13:48<sheldonh>Magui: you can usually find out why a package is being held back at
13:49<klys>sasha: I suggested you check /initrd/linuxrc, look for swapon
13:49<Magui>sheldonh: oh!
13:49<sasha>klys thanks a lot , i ll do it thank you
13:50<klys>sasha: your kernel commandline will indicate the resume partition
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13:50<EmleyMoor>... or am I going to need a FreeDOS boot floppy or something?
13:51<klys>emleymoor: it depends on your firmware vendor support. probably best from windows 98SE
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13:52<EmleyMoor>I don't think I have Win98SE in working order anywhere at the moment
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13:53<klys>emleymoor: msg?
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13:54<EmleyMoor>klys: Sorry
13:54<EmleyMoor>(though it probably won't actually help in this case)
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13:55<sheldonh>Magui: nice, hey? :)
13:55<sheldonh>Magui: you can also use that site to subscribe for bugs and update acceptance messages relating to a specific package. very sexy
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13:59<sasha>ok thank you for everything i m actually investing , see you bye
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14:00<Magui>sheldonh: isn't there another site that tells you exactly why a package is being held back? I'd completely forgotten about this, but I remember using a website many months ago that told me about why the package vlc had been removed from debian testing for the time being. does this sound familiar?
14:01<sheldonh>Magui: i use
14:01<sheldonh>Magui: there's a big fat removals file, but it's about 4MB
14:02<Magui>sheldonh: OK.
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14:04<Magui>sheldonh: never mind, it was the same website, after all:).
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14:06<hatoon>eu gostaria de saber se alguam aqui sabe o q deve ser feito para ser tornar um desenvolvedor debian ?
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14:06<hatoon>alguem tem ideia
14:06<Magui>sheldonh: anyway, I'm really just having issues with the package amule, which is one of the packages being kept back on my system. the website indicates that it was moved into testing a couple of weeks ago. no issues or problems mentioned.
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14:07<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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14:13<sheldonh>Magui: do you have a mixed stable/testing system?
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14:13<x03>someone know how to fix this?
14:13<x03># chroot /mnt/chroot/
14:13<x03>/bin/bash: relocation error: /lib/tls/ symbol _dl_out_of_memory, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file with link time reference
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14:14<ifvoid>x03: what kind of chroot is that?
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14:15<x03>ifvoid: contains usb live files
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14:16<ifvoid>well, seems they are broken ;)
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14:17<Magui>sheldonh: not mixed, no. it's been testing from the beginning. let me think...
14:17<ifvoid>you could try something like
14:17<ifvoid>export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5
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14:18<Magui>sheldonh: I might have done the initial install from a stable CD, but I changed the sources.list immediately to testing, and ran an update. that was 3 months ago.
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14:19<sheldonh>Magui: apt-show-versions | fgrep /stable | wc -l
14:20<Magui>sheldonh: bash: apt-show-versions: command not found
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14:21<sheldonh>Magui: aptitude install apt-show-versions
14:21<Magui>sheldonh: OK:).
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14:21<x03>ifvoid: not work
14:21<ifvoid>!doesn't work
14:21<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is an ambiguous statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
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14:22<ifvoid>x03: where did you get the chroot file, to start with?
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14:22<Magui>sheldonh: OK, I get 0 for that command.
14:22<x03>im using debbootstrap to make a usb disk
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14:22<x03>and make a charoot that
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14:23<ifvoid>debootstrap to make a usb disk?
14:23<Myon>debootstrap builds working chroots, you must have removed some files
14:24<ifvoid>or he made an ancient chroot
14:24<ifvoid>potato or so
14:24<Myon>or sid, using a recent grep :)
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14:36<katelynn>does anyone know how to make my own version of debian
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14:38<mikegrb>what do you mean?
14:38<ifvoid>katelynn: why would you want that
14:39<katelynn>just thought i would make my own version
14:40<katelynn>add a few things
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14:42<ifvoid>katelynn: like what?
14:42<xdie>somebody can helpme with hyalafax
14:42<ifvoid>katelynn: anyway, all the tools are there to make your own
14:42<ifvoid>katelynn: just make sure you comply with the GPL and distribute all sources
14:42<xdie>ERR [6] Unknown problem
14:43<katelynn>ok thanks i'll check into it
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14:43<katelynn>wish there was a guide to go by though
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14:44<ifvoid>have you even tried googling?
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14:44<ifvoid>the first link here seems to be want you ar elooking for
14:44<katelynn>yeah but most things are for ubuntu
14:44<ifvoid>yeah so?
14:44<ifvoid>there's no difference
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14:46<ifvoid>anyway, by the questions you're asking it seems you really shouldn't be setting up your own distribution
14:46<katelynn>i know but i'll try
14:46<Eulex>katelynn, what do you need to add and why?
14:46<ifvoid>you should maybe start by trying to construct a debian package from scratch, first
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14:48<sasha>hi klys are you still here ?
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14:52<peacetreaty>i have a software-raid(raid1) created with mdadm on a etch64-system(the system is not on a raid-partition and has its own hd), now i want to delete the 64bit system and want to install an etch32bit; could i access the software-raid from the new 32bit system?
14:52<tcsetattr>gee, I hope the md on-disk structure is arch-independent.
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14:54<ifvoid>peacetreaty: sure
14:54<ifvoid>peacetreaty: no problem at all
14:54<ifvoid>peacetreaty: actually, I just migrated the other way around this weekend ;)
14:54<ifvoid>but why would you want to go back to 32 bit?
14:55<peacetreaty>don't laugh
14:55<peacetreaty>because there is no 64bit version of acrobat flash
14:56<ifvoid>peacetreaty: you can use nspluginwrapper for that
14:56<peacetreaty>but it's not the only problem
14:56<peacetreaty>in the past, i used virtualbox
14:56<peacetreaty>now i am using xen
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14:57[~]ARitualSacrifice vanishes...
14:57<peacetreaty>yesterday i tried to upgrade the system, and now the packages are broken
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14:57<peacetreaty>i could not upgrade libc(and libc-dev) because of the package virtualbox
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14:57<peacetreaty>i also could not remove virtualbox
14:57<ifvoid>I have no idea what virtualbox is
14:58<peacetreaty>its like vmware
14:58<ifvoid>but I doubt it has anything to do with 64 bit
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14:59<peacetreaty>it hasn't anything to do with 64bit, but its 64bit libc constricts the upgrade
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15:00<peacetreaty>and after i have tried to upgrade the system, xorg does not start
15:00<peacetreaty>so i decided to install the system new, and install the 32bit version
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15:01<peacetreaty>but i have the fear, that the soft-raid is not mountable
15:02<ifvoid>I told you already, it'll work fine
15:02<ifvoid>obviously, as tcsetattr pointed out
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15:03<peacetreaty>on the new system, how could i access the raid?
15:03<peacetreaty>mdadm create?
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15:03<ifvoid>in the same way you're accessing it now
15:04<peacetreaty>could i copy the mdadm.conf?
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15:08<tcsetattr>copying the mdadm.conf sounds like a good idea
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15:08<tcsetattr>I don't think you want to "create" an md that already exists
15:09|-|mode/#debian [+l 321] by debhelper
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15:09<peacetreaty>but does it exist on the new system?
15:09<peacetreaty>where is the info of the raid-array stored?
15:09<tcsetattr>"mdadm assemble" would be the command to activate it, and the init scripts should do that for you if you have mdadm.conf set up
15:10<ifvoid>the installer will just show it
15:10<tcsetattr>the raid itself has a superblock
15:10<tcsetattr>ooh, the installer detects existing md's? even better :)
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15:12<yo>tengo 3 lineas adsls con 3 puertas de enlace
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15:12<yo>como puedo hacer para que balancee la conexion?
15:12<dpkg>Esse canal e apenas em ingles. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
15:12<ifvoid>or is it spanish?
15:13|-|cydork [] has joined #debian
15:13<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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15:14<peacetreaty>so the array will be detected by the installer, and if i copy the mdadm.conf i should be able to access the raid
15:15<peacetreaty>thank you very much for your answers
15:15|-|vnode [] has joined #debian
15:15<peacetreaty>(but i will backup the data on an usb-disk, before the installation of the new system)
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15:17<Kebianizao>I'm looking for the source repo of dhcp3-client, is this on topic here or do you think it's more #debian-mentors or #debian-devel?
15:18<xdie>ERR [6] Unknown problem
15:18<xdie>of hylafax
15:18<xdie>can helpme
15:18<ifvoid>apt-get source dhcp3-client
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15:18<Kebianizao>ifvoid: not the source package, but the repo where the development is done
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15:19<Kebianizao>ifvoid: I'm trying to track a bug
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15:20<Kebianizao>dhclient is overwriting the /etc/resolv.conf link which should be available for resolvconf to work
15:20<Kebianizao>I know the script and function that does it, but I'd like to know when did it happened and why
15:21<ifvoid>how do yu kno that there is a repo where developemtn is done?
15:21<Kebianizao>I wonder why the developer information page doesn't show it
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15:21<Kebianizao>ifvoid: it usually is and also there are several maintainers for this
15:21<james_w>Kebianizao: maybe they don't have one, or it isn't recorded in the necessary place.
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15:22<Kebianizao>james_w: I see
15:22<Kebianizao>do you think I should ask on #debian-devel?
15:22<ifvoid>or it's not available to the public
15:22<ifvoid>Kebianizao: no, just ask the maintainer
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15:23<Kebianizao>which one? :)
15:23<ifvoid>any one
15:23<ifvoid> will reach all of them
15:24<Kebianizao>ok, I'll do, but is a bug report preferred?
15:24<Kebianizao>then I'll place the bug
15:24<ifvoid>what makes you think there's more than 1 maintiner, btw?
15:24<Kebianizao>ifvoid: ^
15:25<ifvoid>hmm, weird
15:25<ifvoid>I guess those are previous maintainers or so
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15:27<Kebianizao>ifvoid: any further conclusion then?
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15:27<ifvoid>no, a bugreport will be fine
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15:47<sasha>hi during initrd process i have a message mount selinuxfs failed , what does it mean ?
15:48<Kebianizao>sasha: that you are not using selinux?
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15:48<sasha>is it important , i only get this message on newly compiled kernel
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15:49<Kebianizao>not important I guess it means you are not using selinux
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15:50<sasha>is it responsible in the fact that ide disk are now recognized as scsi disk ?
15:51<Kebianizao>not really, do you compiled the kernel yourself?
15:51<sasha>when i compile a kernel , and install it , i ve to do 2 think before it can work
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15:52<Kebianizao>then you enabled ata emulation for a ide disk
15:52<sasha>1 to change the kernel line from root=/dev/sda to /dev/hda
15:52<Kebianizao>this are a quite new feature
15:52<Kebianizao>yep and also fstab
15:53<sasha>2 launch the command update-iniramfs -u -k all
15:53<rjent_>Greetings, do I have to mount a drive to see if a folder exists on it?
15:53<Kebianizao>sasha: and also fstab
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15:53<sasha><Kebianizao : no that is strange but after boot process my ide drive is still recognized as a scsi drive
15:53<rjent_>I have writing a program that will expect a drive to be prepped a certain way and I want to test for a folder.
15:54<sasha>il looks like the problem is only in the inird
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15:57<sasha>Kebianizo : it is strange cause with df , i see my drive as /dev/sda but with ls /dev/hd* i now see hda , hda1 ....
15:57<sasha>does someone undestand it ?
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15:59<tcsetattr>existence of device nodes in /dev doesn't imply anything about the hardware or the drivers.
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16:03<sasha>is it better to use ide drives , let say natural with /dev/hdx or with ata emulation so that they are seen as /dev/sdx
16:04<lupine>makes no real difference
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16:06<sasha>ok thanks , and so i ve another question , i just bought a new laptop a samsung x22 but i cant install debian on it cause it says it does not detect cd rom , i ve seen a procedure with a net install where i ve to download and compil a recent kernel before proceding to instalation , is it the only wayt ?
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16:08<Kebianizao>sasha: maybe there's some boot parameter to solve that
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16:08<Kebianizao>sasha: you should check the release notes
16:09<sasha>linux26 don t work cause i think debian now use a 2.6 kernel for install , no ?
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16:10<Kebianizao>sasha: and?
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16:11<sasha>cause before i had this problem cause 2.4 did not recognized well some hardaware
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16:11<mzhang>how to echo a quotation mark like ' or "?
16:12<sasha>i always install debian with dvd , and the 2.6.18 is to old for my computer
16:12<sasha>echo \"
16:12<Kebianizao>tried the latest netinst image?
16:13<sasha>not yet, just looking for informations cause i ve another partition and can not delete it
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16:14<Kebianizao>sasha: burn the latest netinst and try
16:15<sasha>ok thank you
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16:15<Kebianizao>sasha: well, I didn't really help you, just gave sensible answers IMHO
16:15<Kebianizao>hope that helps
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16:17<sasha>yes , but it plesed me
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16:18<sasha>ok thank you for everything , it is a realy nice chan here i ll come back , bye
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16:22<softwork>why debian testing start very fast?
16:22<softwork>< 10 seconds
16:22<Kebianizao>softwork: why not?
16:22<Kebianizao>it depends on the services you are loading
16:22<softwork>but is very very fast
16:23<tark>compared to what ?
16:23<Kebianizao>is that a problem at all?
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16:23<softwork>compared to 4.0r1 is very very fast
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16:23<zuni>please could anyone tell which kernel image should be used with a processor athlon64 X2 in lenny (smp?) ?
16:24<tark>i have etch and testing i'd say they take as much tim to load
16:24<Kebianizao>is there anyone here using evolution that could send me a tar of his ~/.evolution dir after removing their private info/mail?
16:24<softwork>i have amd64
16:24<zuni>no smp ?
16:24<Kebianizao>I need it to confirm
16:24<zuni>(I found no smp kernel image)
16:25<chealer>zuni: on which Debian arch?
16:25<chealer>zuni: that's the Debian suite, I'm talking about the architecture, like i386 and amd64
16:25<zuni>dual core
16:26<zuni>uname -a --> Linux gluon 2.6.21-2-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jul 10 21:39:38 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:26<chealer>zuni: Debian doesn't have an architecture named x86_64. is it amd64?
16:26<tcsetattr>amd64 and x86_64 are the same thing.
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16:27<zuni>should I get a smp kernel image ?
16:27<zuni>(or compile ?)
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16:28<chealer>zuni: then you have only one option, amd64.
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16:29<janux-xmind>do someone know hou to install compiz-fusion on debian etch
16:29<kop>tcsetattr : I'm still mucking about with USB_DEVFS_PATH=/proc/bus/usb vs /dev/bus/usb. I've not filed a bug report yet. I notice that if I add myself to the plugdev group then lsusb works. Any thoughts?
16:29<zuni>thanx, it seems to work fine with SMP anyway
16:29<Kebianizao>janux-xmind: I don't think it's available yet
16:30<Kebianizao>janux-xmind: you have compiz BTW
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16:30<Kebianizao>kop: DEVFS¿? it should be deprecated
16:30<janux-xmind>so what about compiz alone?
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16:31<janux-xmind>i got all its packages installed but i can't start it
16:31<tark>janux-xmind: what do you want to know ?
16:31<Kebianizao>janux-xmind: compiz?
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16:31<kop>Kebianizao : Had a discussion last night because lsusb would not work unless invoked as "USB_DEVFS_PATH=/proc/bus/usb lsusb"
16:32<kop>Kebianizao : When invoked that way it saw the device.
16:32<Kebianizao>janux-xmind: as well
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16:33<Kebianizao>kop: apt-cache policy usbutils
16:33<janux-xmind>thanks, i'll check those links
16:33<kop>Kebianizao : But now I notice the permissions on /dev/bus/usb and so added myself to the group and that _seemed_ to do the trick. But I'm wondering if that's really right, and what the right thing is.
16:33<tcsetattr>I never noticed the existence of a "plugdev" group before.
16:33<kop>Kebianizao : Thanks. I'll look.
16:33<Kebianizao>tcsetattr: I know beacuse it's needed for hal-mount work with removable devices
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16:34<tcsetattr>seems like it would be irrelevant if you were doing your tests as root though.
16:34<tark>janux-xmind: you can get compiz-fusion packages through sid repositories
16:34<kop>Kebianizao : Looks like the stock etch. Do you want me to paste it?
16:35<kop>tcsetattr : Don't know that I was root. And I can't be root to use a gui app (easily).
16:35<Kebianizao>kop: no, just version
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16:35<kop>Kebianizao : 0.72-7
16:35<tark>janux-xmind: but i don't know how well it would get along with etch
16:35<Kebianizao>kop: 0.72-8 on unstable
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16:35<Kebianizao>not far it seems
16:36<tcsetattr>using filesystem permissions to govern access to the device is the right way. if doing it as group-id thing fits your policy, fine.
16:36<Kebianizao>kop: and changelog doesn't say anything relevant
16:36<tcsetattr>I'm pretty sure the other people with similar problems had lsusb that was not showing their devices even when run as root.
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16:36<kop>tcsetattr : Works for me as root.
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16:37<tcsetattr>there are many subtle variations of this problem then. yours was just PEBCAK permission error on /dev/bus/usb apparently :)
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16:37<Kebianizao>kop: it's working for another user not belonging to plugdev
16:37<kop>tcsetattr :)
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16:38<kop>Kebianizao : crw-rw---- 1 root plugdev 189, 6 2007-09-03 16:14 007
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16:38<kop>Kebianizao : So I'd expect that the plugdev group would be a requirement.
16:38<Kebianizao>whta's that
16:39<Kebianizao>kop: seems like a weird udev rule that's doing that
16:39<Kebianizao>kop: gnome I guess
16:39<kop>Kebianizao : Sorry. /dev/bus/usb/001/007
16:39<tcsetattr>sounds right to me. and a fair parallel to the use of an "audio" gropu for sound devices, etc.
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16:40<Kebianizao>crw-rw-r-- 1 root root 189, 0 2007-09-03 22:05 001
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16:40<Kebianizao>kop: ^
16:41<Kebianizao>kop: paste ls -lR /etc/udev
16:41<kop>Kebianizao : I'm udev clueless. Ok.
16:41<Kebianizao>so do I :D
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16:42<tcsetattr>I'm lost. what problem are we trying to solve now?
16:42<Kebianizao>but let's see that paste and judge
16:42<Kebianizao>tcsetattr: why /dev/bus/usb... is plugdev group
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16:42<tcsetattr>because the USB device in question is a pluggable device?
16:42<tcsetattr>why shouldn't it be?
16:42<Kebianizao>btw, I don't see why lsusb shouldn't work even in that case
16:43<Kebianizao>tcsetattr: right, but I understood all usb were like that...
16:43<Kebianizao>kop: ?
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16:43<tcsetattr>lsusb needs to open the device and ioctl it to get the device ID. without permission to open, it's screwed.
16:43<kop>Kebianizao : Sorry, I'm a bit slow.
16:44<tcsetattr>lsusb is a system diagnostic tool, it should always be run as root anyway.
16:44<Kebianizao>tcsetattr: I can run it as user
16:44<tcsetattr>that it sort of half-works as a non-root user is a coincidence
16:44<kop>It's a camera. And gtkam does not want to delete it's pictures. The dmesg output is: usb 1-2: usbfs: process 524 (gtkam) did not claim interface 1 before use
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16:45<kop>Although I can download the images just fine.
16:45<Kebianizao>tcsetattr: you are _very_ right and hence I was _very_ wrong :S
16:45<Kebianizao>I thought it was working but it was not
16:46<Kebianizao>so there's nothing wrong kop, sorry for the misleading
16:46<kop>tcsetattr : But what about stuff like usb printers or scanners? (I've got one.) You shouldn't have to be root to run xsane (and I don't have to be).
16:47<Kebianizao>kop: is that camera mounted as a removable device or is it using some transfer protocol?
16:47<kop>Kebianizao : Some transfer protocol.
16:47<tcsetattr>right. I'm not saying you should have to be root to access an individual device - you can chown and chgrp the device and modify /etc/group or whatever you want to get the access control that fits
16:47<Kebianizao>or creating an udev rule ;)
16:48<tcsetattr>lsusb is not asking for a particular device, it's asking for _all_ devices, which is reasonably a root-only thing
16:48<kop>Kebianizao : It's a "Ritz Pure-digital disposable" You're supposed to return it and pay $1/picture, but you can make a cable and re-use it.
16:48<Kebianizao>kop: then maybe's a problem with the protocol implementation, but not with the usb subsystem
16:48<kop>tcsetattr : I've a feeling the scanner comes up in the scanner group, via some udev magic.
16:49<tcsetattr>in /proc/bus/usb everything is 644 root.root until you change it
16:49<kop>Kebianizao : Possible, but it's a wierd message from demsg about "claiming the interface". Could be an application problem. The camera is listed with "testing" support.
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16:50<Kebianizao>you should go down to gphoto2 probably to find out what's happenning
16:50<tcsetattr>the kernel log message mentions usbfs which is the /proc/bus/usb - if you add yourself to plugdev and use it through /dev/bus/usb you should at least get a different error message
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16:50<kop>tcsetattr : I get the same dmesg either way.
16:53<sasha>i cannot do a netinstall on my laptop because my cdrom is not recognized , any suggestions ?
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16:53<kop>tcsetattr Kebianizao : Actually, at this point I should reboot. I installed the 2.6.18-5 kernel update and who knows how well my modules are working. (Just did this now.)
16:54<tcsetattr>I guess they just copied the code from usbfs into the new /dev/bus/usb drivers and didn't change the messages
16:56<kop>tcsetattr Kebianizao : At this point I suspect the application and will test using gphoto2 instead of gtkam and see. Back after a reboot (and maybe a while after that), unless there's something I should do for you?
16:56<Kebianizao>kop: not really
16:56<Kebianizao>indeed having good luck yourself is the best
16:56<kop>sasha : Does it boot off the cd into the installer?
16:56<Kebianizao>I'll be leaving soon
16:57<Kebianizao>sasha: what CD is that?
16:57<Kebianizao>does lspci see it?
16:57<sasha>it is the last net instal
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16:57<sasha>no , i can t get into install process
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16:57<sasha>it directly says , can not mount cd rom do you want to manually load modules fro; floppy
16:58<Kebianizao>sasha: but does is boot at all?
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16:58<Kebianizao>could you get the lspci and get the model
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16:58<Kebianizao>elsewhere I meant
16:58<kop>sasha: You might look at the install instructions at There may be hints. You could try telling it "expert" when it asks how you want to boot. That might give you more choices when it comes to drivers for the cd.
16:58<sasha>is there a lspsci command available befor install process ?
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16:59<kop>sasha : Ctrl-Alt-F3 will bring you to a console. (After the installer boots.)
16:59<Kebianizao>sasha: maybe not, you should try it somewhere else instead
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16:59<sasha>i ve only seen a solution with a net install trough usb key
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17:00<sasha>pff, thats always the problem with new hardware
17:00<Kebianizao>sasha: there are boot parameters specified in the release notes, have you tried those?
17:01<sasha>yes with the dvd install from 4.0, not with the netinstall ne with 4.0r1
17:01<Kebianizao>have you already tried those ?
17:02<EmleyMoor>Is there any known way to reflash a DVD writer's firmware in Linux?
17:02<sasha>kebianizao : i do not understand you , you mean the other options , pressing F6 ....
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17:03<sasha>EmleyMoor> : yes for some nec burners
17:03<EmleyMoor>How about for Panasonic?
17:04<sasha>no idea
17:04<EmleyMoor>I am getting random I/O errors from mine
17:04<sasha>under linux there is (was) a necflash comand
17:05<sasha>necflash -dump /home/Iron/Oldfirmware.bin /dev/hdc , maybe it can work with a panasonic one ??
17:06<EmleyMoor>Where did you get necflash from, just out of interest?
17:06<sasha>from nec site
17:07<sasha>but you can also look here
17:07<EmleyMoor>OK - failing all of this, how do I prevent these random failures
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17:08<tark>hmm does anyone know if there's a way to re-generate gnome menus ? strangely i lost the xscreensaver icon in lenny / system / preferences and my apps / games menu is all messed up and unsorted always in lenny...
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17:09<sasha><EmleyMoor> what is your model ?
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17:13<EmleyMoor>necflash won't touch it
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17:14<sasha>bye , thank you
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17:30<S41nt>g'day folks
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17:38[~]EmleyMoor is trying a reboot to see if he can get a "regular" kernel going
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17:51<Aleric>Hmm, everything works, but one cpu is using 100% and ALL my terminal windows (gnome-terminal) remain blank: a window frame with an entirely white rectangle in them.
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17:51<Aleric>What could that be? Any suggestions of what to try?
17:52<Aleric>I can't even run 'top' because I have no terminal anymore :/
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18:14<Stephim>Aleric Use Key : CTRL+ALT+F2
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18:15<stoned>I love you guys
18:15<Stephim>Thks stoned :-)
18:15[~]S41nt sheds a tear
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18:42<Aleric>I switched to a VT - and then I couldn't go back to X anymore - had to hard reset, also rebooting did hang :/
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18:47<sortadi>I'm creating this partial mirror using debmirror on a IDE-USB Tray, and it has failed a lot due to electrical supply problems
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18:47<sortadi>how can I check its integrity in its whole once it's finished?
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18:56<Aleric>The only message that I have, though frequently, before the crash is:
18:56<Aleric>kerneld: rtc: lost some interrupts at 1024Hz.
18:57<sortadi>is it hand-compiled?
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19:04<moicano>hi guys
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19:05<AfterBurn>Hey everyone
19:05<AfterBurn>Got a quick question, inwhich i can not seem to find a valued answer for. It's probably something stupid I'm over looking
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19:06<AfterBurn>Is anyone available to maybe help me out for a few minutes? It would be greatly appreciated
19:06<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For Example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
19:06<AfterBurn>ah ok, cool thanks
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19:07<dpkg>moicano IP is a connectionless, best-effort packet switching protocol. It provides packet routing, fragmentation and re-assembly through the data link layer. [internet protocol], or to check yours, go to, or if you don't have a piece of official looking paper declaring your ownership (or even if you do) it probably belongs to SCO (or they'll lock you up in court for a couple years in a pretense that it is)
19:07<AfterBurn>I have debian 4.0 netinst installed on a box, I now have that box hooked up via my KVM switch to my other box. I only work in a CLI, and no GUI is installed. My screen looks like it's out of adjustment and off to the eft by 1 charachtr, is there a config for that?
19:08<AfterBurn>Left *
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19:09<AfterBurn>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
19:09<azeem>AfterBurn: that rather sound like your LCD/CRT is malconfigured?
19:10<AfterBurn>My current res is 1280x1024 on the windows box
19:10<AfterBurn>The box worked fine on an older crt by itself
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19:14<tcsetattr>AfterBurn, you can adjust the text console's video mode with fbset (if fbcon is enabled) or SVGATextMode (if fbcon is not enabled)
19:14<AfterBurn>azeem, what do you mean when you say malconfigured? What seetings in particular?
19:15<AfterBurn>tcsetattr, just type in those commands ?
19:15<tcsetattr>read the man page first, obviously
19:15<AfterBurn>Of course
19:15<AfterBurn>I will try that, brb switching screens, and thank you
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19:16<tcsetattr>fbset takes a video mode argument (for example, fbset 640x480-60)
19:16<AfterBurn>fbset has no man entry and doesnt appear
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19:17<tcsetattr>apt-get install fbset
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19:18<AfterBurn>Couldn't find package fbset
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19:18<AfterBurn>svgattextmode doesnt have a man entry either
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19:20<tcsetattr>you have screwed up sources.list
19:20<AfterBurn>gah, that sucks.
19:20<AfterBurn>I'm pretty new to debian
19:20<AfterBurn>Is there an easy way to fix the sources list ?
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19:21<tcsetattr>what do you have in there?
19:21<lupine>AfterBurn: pastebin your current contest
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19:21<tcsetattr>did you do a CD install? maybe fbset isn't on the first CD
19:22<AfterBurn>I did an install of netinst on cd
19:22<AfterBurn>I just vi /etc/apt/sources.list and it says 2 were commented out
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19:24<lupine>you want something like "deb lenny main contrib non-free"
19:24<tcsetattr>you must have something that's not commented out
19:24<lupine>although, with a local mirror
19:24<dpkg>somebody said debian mirrors was or | ask me about <apt-setup> or <apt-spy> | to make a mirror, see
19:25<dpkg>apt-spy is probably a secret! Shh!, or like 'mirror, mirror, on the wall... who is the fastest of them all?' :: apt-get install apt-spy; apt-spy update; apt-spy -d [stable,testing,unstable] -a [Africa,Asia,Europe,North-America,Oceania,South-America] :: when this finishes it will automatically write to your sources.list so if you have other mirrors there you'll have to "cp /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.mybak" and fix your sources.list
19:25<tcsetattr>I have a feeling the supplicant has not even checked whether he's using fbcon or not, and this all may be a waste of time.
19:25<lupine>nice phraseology :p
19:25<tcsetattr>apt-spy was horrible last time I tried it.
19:25<AfterBurn>How do i check if i'm using fbcon ?
19:25<lupine>I am feeling a bit Godly right now
19:25<lupine>it's a kernel module, right?
19:26<tcsetattr>well for one thing if you run fbset and it doesn't work, that'd be a clue :)
19:26<tcsetattr>Tux logo on boot is the standard indicator though
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19:27<lupine>ah, kernel framebuffer, but not a specific 'fbcon' module AFAICT
19:27<lupine>I always got it to play by giving 'mode=' as a kernel argument
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19:27<lupine>0317 was 1024x768 IIRC
19:27<lou>Is there a tool to that can be executed regularly to detect corrupted files? Or by this definition: a file who's contents is changed while the modify date/time is not.
19:27<tcsetattr>if you reboot every time you want to change video mode, that's just sad
19:28<lupine>it was a laptop with an LCD screen so there was only the one useful mode
19:28<tcsetattr>lou: tripwire?
19:28<lupine>but specifying a vesa mode got me a vesa framebuffer loaded
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19:30<lupine>anyway, the framebuffer modules are in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/video (*fb.ko)
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19:31<lupine>modprobe vga16fb if there isn't one that's specific to your video card architecture, I'd imagine
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19:43<bigbang>beleza ai véi
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19:44<opa>olá Dennis
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19:46<opa>tem algum Brasileiro ai?
19:46<evilazio>BOA NOITE
19:46<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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19:47<moicano>fala aee
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19:50<Supaplex>is the heartbeat package required to be installed on all systems? I'd like to setup a 2 node system for dhcp+routing. one is an openwrt router, and another eventually a vserver guest (also running openwrt)
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20:00<kop>tcsetattr: gphoto2 works, but I still get the same pesky kernel message "process 11498 (gphoto2) did not claim interface 1 before use".
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20:02<kop>Supaplex: I don't know. But if each is supposed to know which one is to do what, then both need a way to talk with the other.
20:04<tcsetattr>I don't know anything about these camera protocols
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20:12<everaldo>hello guys!
20:12<dmind>hello everaldo!!
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20:34<survivor3>#21 opa
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20:43<survivor3> opa
20:43<survivor3> opa
20:43<survivor3> opa
20:43<survivor3> opa
20:43<survivor3> opa
20:44|-|mode/#debian [+q *!*@] by FloodServ
20:44<Supaplex>!pal survivor3
20:44[~]dpkg points at survivor3 and laughs hysterically
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20:54<kop>I've got 2 bugs I'd like to report and don't know which package to associate them with. The first bug is that there are devices that cannot be used (except by root) by users not in the appropriate group. These groups are not well documented. I can't find anything on the "plugdev" group, wouldn't know where to go looking for info on what the "camera" group does, etc. The "scanner" group is documented in /usr/share/doc/libsane/README.Debian.gz, which is itself
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20:57<kop>Somebody, maybe udev, is setting these groups. After reading the udev README.Debian it _seems_ that udev is a somewhat centralized place for udev rules. Should I complain to udev about the group documentation?
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21:00<tcsetattr>kop: /usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.txt.gz
21:01<tcsetattr>it's not ideal but it's probably the most authoritative documentation we have
21:03<kop>tcsetattr: Yeah. Camera is not in there. I can submit a patch to the debian reference manual to refer people to that file. It's a bit much to ask the typical debian newbie in need of device access to be expected to find that file.
21:04<tcsetattr>yeah, but it's _not_ too much to ask that a person with root access be able to ls -l a device to see what group is associated with it.
21:04<kop>Speaking of which, is the reference manual maintained? I've sent a couple of bug reports with patches and have gotten no response. I think it's been a couple of months since the first patch I sent in.
21:04<dondelelcaro>kop: where did you send the patches?
21:05<kop>tcsetattr: You'd think not, but neither you nor I managed to do that last night. And we sorta know what were doing.
21:05<kop>dondelelcaro: I used the bug report command (submitbug?).
21:05<tcsetattr>well, I suggested the USB_DEVFS_PATH workaround because I was on a roll with it. and you seemed happy with it so I didn't have any reason to investigate further
21:06<kop>tcsetattr: Because I wasn't root I couldn't use lsusb to find the device path. And immediately becomeing root is not a tendency to encourage.
21:06<dondelelcaro>kop: reportbug, but what package did you file them against?
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21:07<dondelelcaro>oh, here we go. debian-reference-en
21:07<kop>dondelelcaro: Right. Just found it myself.
21:07<tcsetattr>we'd be better off if lsusb refused to run as non-root. it can only give partial information if it's not guaranteed access to everything.
21:07<dondelelcaro>yeah, probably osamu just hasn't had a chance to respond
21:08<dondelelcaro>there's no reason why it shouldn't run as non-root; it should just warn when it is unable to access certain things
21:08<kop>dondelelcaro: Thanks. I thought so, but there seemed to be some confusion in my head as to what was current and what was going to obsolete.
21:08<kop>dondelelcaro: When run as non-root it simply did not report the plugged in usb device. (etch)
21:09<dondelelcaro>yeah, it should just warn if it wasn't able to open whatever it tried to open to see what was plugged in.
21:09<tcsetattr>or maybe the problem is simply that lsusb quietly ignores "permission denied" errors instead of printing them to give you a hint that you're not seeing everything because you're not root.
21:09<kop>Should I file a bug report? :)
21:10<dondelelcaro>if there isn't one already, yes
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21:12<tcsetattr>it looks like the libusb interface for enumerating devices doesn't have much room for error communication
21:14<kop>Ok. On to bug report number 2 (now 3). dmesg says "usbfs: process 11498 (gphoto2) did not claim interface 1 before use" when deleting pictures from my camera. But so does gtkam. So the bug does not belong to either package. How do figure out which package to send it to? (gphoto2 works, gtkam does not, when it comes to deleting from the camera.)
21:14<kop>tcsetattr: Should I complain to libusb (vis lsusb) or to lsusb directly?
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21:15<tcsetattr>setting USB_DEBUG=2 gets you an error message on the failed open, but it's non-descriptive and buried in other useless messages
21:16<tcsetattr>here's a weird one: if I chmod 600 /proc/bus/usb/003/002, the device disappears from lsusb listing (as non-root). but lsusb -t finds it!
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21:17<kop>dondelelcaro: BTW, I tried "update-alternatives --set editor $(which emacs)" and it didn't work the other day. I fell back on using --config. I _still_ don't get update-alternatives. (I suppose I could have done something clueless, I didn't spend time messing with it.)
21:18<tcsetattr>$(which emacs) might be a symlink to something more specific? update-alternatives --list shows what paths it'll accept.
21:19<kop>tcsetattr: Thanks. I'll try that next time.
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21:26<dondelelcaro>yeah, it'd have to be something like /usr/bin/emacs22 or 21 or similar.
21:27<kop>dondelelcaro: Sounds sane. It's hard to figure out when first bumbling around.
21:28<kop>dondelelcaro: (And I still don't think the man page is so good, but I've too many bug reports on my plate to be motivated to write a patch there. :(
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21:29[~]tcsetattr grumbles about Makefiles that lie
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21:30<tcsetattr>I build a package with debian/rules build, run a little test, make a modification to foo.c and run debian/rules build again; what should happen? a) recompiling foo.c and relinking; b) nothing
21:31<tcsetattr>if you said "b" you are a fscking moron who doesn't understand the purpose of make.
21:31<tcsetattr>the ONLY reason make exists is so that things that need rebuilding get rebuilt, and thigns that don't need it don't.
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21:31<tcsetattr>Makefiles that don't actually express the true dependencies between files are EVIL!
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21:32<tcsetattr>if the executable file that was built is older than any of the source files, it NEEDS TO BE REBUILT.
21:32<dondelelcaro>so? every time you call debian/rules build, make -f Makefile doesn't necessarily get called.
21:33<tcsetattr>debian/rules *is* a Makefile.
21:33<dondelelcaro>obviously, but it doesn't know the precise set of dependencies of the package's own makefile
21:33<tcsetattr>debian/rules build is "make -f debian/rules build" therefore I expect it to behave like a Makefile is supposed to behave: find things that are out of date and update them.
21:33<dondelelcaro>so if build-stamp already exists, it's not going to try building the package again
21:34<tcsetattr>hm... found this "build-stamp" file, that's usually a sign of stupidity, let's see... yes! rm build-stamp and try again it works
21:34<tcsetattr>if you're touching "stamp" files from your Makefile you're doing it wrong.
21:34<tcsetattr>that stamp file crap is doing manually (and badly) what make is meant to do automatically
21:34<dondelelcaro>so file bugs on all 20,000 packages, cause that's how almost all of them do it
21:35<tcsetattr>yes, Debian is a particularly bad offender in the area of crappy makefiles
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21:35<dondelelcaro>they're not required to be used in that manner.
21:35<dondelelcaro>so if it works, bonus, if not, too bad.
21:36<tcsetattr>editing foo.c and then re-running the make command which builds the package is such a basic use of make... I don't see how anyone can claim that it isn't meant to be used that way.
21:36<tcsetattr>if make succeeds and the package is not up to date, the makefile is broken.
21:37<dondelelcaro>the command that builds the package doesn't have dependencies from the actual place where the package was installed back to the original files which created the binaries
21:37<tcsetattr>installed? I'm not talking about installing, just compiling and linking
21:37<dondelelcaro>so why are you even bothering to call debian/rules then?
21:38<tcsetattr>because I intend to send a patch to debian so it makes sense to compile the package the same way debian will compile it
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21:39<tcsetattr>which means I either have to run debian/rules build, or dig into debian/rules and find out exactly what commands it uses to configure and compile the package, and replicate them.
21:39<dondelelcaro>tcsetattr: that's not how you compile debian packages
21:40<tcsetattr>debian/rules build is not official anymore?
21:40<dondelelcaro>you never call it manually
21:40<dondelelcaro>(and if you do, you call clean before)
21:40<tcsetattr>calling clean defeats the point! (remember the point is not recompiling unchanged things)
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21:42<dondelelcaro>well, it's unfortunate, but that's how it is
21:42<tcsetattr>I remember when people used to know how to write a Makefile...
21:42<dondelelcaro>if it's possible for a package to know the dependencies between build and the subsideary files, then it should do so.
21:42<dondelelcaro>almost every single debian developer knows how to write makefiles
21:42<dondelelcaro>that's not the point
21:42<tcsetattr>just removing all mentions of build-stamp from debian/rules is a huge improvement
21:42<dondelelcaro>that just makes it call build all the time, which isn't necessarily correct either.
21:43<tcsetattr>because build-stamp SUBVERTS the make dependency-checking system.
21:43<dondelelcaro>> rz
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21:44<tcsetattr>I mean the essence of it is "build: build-stamp\n build-stamp:\n\t{actual build commands}" - how can that possibly be correct?
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21:44<tcsetattr>that just means the first time, things work correctly, and subsequently nothing EVER gets built. it's just plain wrong.
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21:46<dondelelcaro>because packages don't get built twice, ever.
21:46<dondelelcaro>at least, not without an intervening clean.
21:47<dondelelcaro>all removing the build stamp does anyway is cause it to be built twice; it doesn't actually cause it to be installed twice.
21:47<tcsetattr>then why the hell is debian/rules a Makefile?
21:47<tcsetattr>if it's not supposed to notice when things are out of date and rebuild them, it shouldn't be a Makefile. That's what Makefiles DO.
21:48<dondelelcaro>that's one of the things that makefiles can do
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21:48<dondelelcaro>all makefiles do is express rules and dependencies between rules
21:48<dondelelcaro>dependencies which are not expressed are not used.
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21:48<dondelelcaro>whether not expressing them is valid or not is an entirely separate question from whether using a Makefile is reasonable.
21:49<dondelelcaro>oscar_: /join #debian-es
21:49<tcsetattr>it's the job of a makefile to make everything under its control up to date. it is illegitimate for a makefile to build something if it's not present, but NOT update it if it is present and out of date.
21:49<dondelelcaro>sure it is
21:49<dondelelcaro>you're going to be very, very unhapy with all rules files with that philosophy, frankly.
21:50<dondelelcaro>feel free to file patches about them if you actually express the dependencies correctly (but your current methodology doesn't do so)
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21:50<tcsetattr>yes, true.
21:53<tcsetattr>it probably depends on the package.
21:54<tcsetattr>for the simple case where the build does nothing but call "make" and then touch the stamp file, removing all references to the stamp file is correct. Then debian/rules build becomes equivalent to "make" which is exactly what it should be.
21:54<tcsetattr>presuming the upstream Makefile is correct, of course, which they sometimes aren't.
21:55<dondelelcaro>that still isn't sufficient
21:55<dondelelcaro>because the actual call to build a package is binary, not build.
21:56<dondelelcaro>and you've not given any way to express the dependency between binary and build.
21:56<tcsetattr>"binary: build", isn't it?
21:57<dondelelcaro>install depends on build, binary depends on both (often)
21:57<tcsetattr>how do package maintainers get anything done if they can't edit a source file and rebuild with a simple command?
21:57<dondelelcaro>depends on what we're rebuilding
21:58<dondelelcaro>we often just call make
21:58<tcsetattr>I mean, you edit one source file and you really don't want to make clean; what do you do?
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21:59<dondelelcaro>if we're actually testing the package (and not just to see what syntax errors we've made) then we actually build the package
21:59<dondelelcaro>and you can't test a package that you've built locally, so you use pbuilder with ccache.
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21:59<tcsetattr>debian/rules could in theory do something more complicated than make, though. and what do you do if you want to run that extra build stuff without a full recompile?
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22:00<dondelelcaro>tcsetattr: depends on the package
22:00<tcsetattr>this is why I just call debian/rules build as a general procedure.
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22:00<tcsetattr>I don't wanna get mired in the details. I want to make use of what the debian package has in debian/rules
22:01<dondelelcaro>the point is that it's not a general interface to rebuilding the package
22:01<dondelelcaro>it's designed to be called in building a package, not rebuilding one that's been built before.
22:01<dondelelcaro>anything else that it does is a bonus
22:01<tcsetattr>so there isn't any general interface to updating a package without a full recompile?
22:02<dondelelcaro>'cause you'd have to do a full recompile to actually test the changes anyway
22:02<tcsetattr>that's a problem! separate from the fact that debian/rules is a Makefile that doesn't obey Makefile basics
22:02<tcsetattr>no you don't need a full recompile
22:03<dondelelcaro>you can do preliminary testing without it, but you can't upload it without actually building the entire thing.
22:03<tcsetattr>if you don't understand the purpose of make, you might think you need a full recompile. but if you have a proper Makefile, then running make gives you equivalent results to a full recompile, with much less time spent doing it.
22:04<dondelelcaro>if the makefile is correct, which you've no way of knowing. And in any event, you shouldn't upload stuff that you've built outside of a chroot anyway.
22:04<tcsetattr>if you don't trust the results to be equivalent you should rewrite your Makefile to make it trustworthy
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22:04<kidbuntu>whats the equivalent of system settings -> monitor & display -> Hardware. i can't find this one
22:05<dondelelcaro>rewriting upstream's makefile is an exercise in unecessary pain
22:05<dondelelcaro>worse if it's using automake
22:05<tcsetattr>automake generates some horribly ugly makefiles. but I do trust them to provide correct results.
22:06|-|vnode [] has joined #debian
22:06<dondelelcaro>I don't.
22:06<tcsetattr>kidbunut, what information do you need about the monitor, and are you sure you aren't looking for #ubuntu
22:06<dondelelcaro>(and more to the point, I don't trust the local environment to actually have the proper versions of library headers et al. even though it's my own)
22:07|-|stoffepojken [] has joined #debian
22:07<kidbuntu>tcsetattr: i'm trying to make my screen resolution to 1440X900
22:07<klys__>aha, 1440 is now a standard
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22:08<tcsetattr>he didn't wait long for an answer.
22:09|-|stoffepojken [] has quit []
22:09<klys__>15x15 96x60
22:09<streuner>better if somebody need 30 minutes :-/
22:10<streuner>(in order to answer a question...)
22:10<klys__>all the regulars are here tonite
22:10|-|klys__ changed nick to klys
22:12<klys>for a 96x60 tile, one might use the font 6x12
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22:15<klys>10 cols, 8 rows, which is actually worse than 20x10
22:15<klys>may want a smaller font
22:15|-|Joris [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:16<klys>1440 is the new standard which uses nonstandard math
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22:17<kop>How can I find out what packages are in a base install?
22:17<klys>aha, 4x4 360x225
22:18<dondelelcaro>kop: which type of base install?
22:18<klys>ok, it uses standard enough math for hdtv and approaches low-res ntsc
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22:18<tcsetattr>oh good I found something different to complain about.
22:19<kop>dondelelcaro: I'm writing a patch for the reference manual and I want to be sure that usermod is always there.
22:19<need>i have a question is there any support for wma formats?
22:19<kop>!tell need -about debian-multimedia
22:19<tcsetattr>some wma files can be played by mplayer
22:19<klys>except 1080 is actually rows, not columns, so it's still strange enough to make you wonder
22:19<chealer>!tell need about wma
22:19|-|ameyer [] has joined #debian
22:20<kop>dondelelcaro: I didn't know there was more than one mimimal install.
22:20<dpkg>well, wma is windows media audio file or something of that nature (proprietary Microsoft lossy audio codec), which sucks because I apt say so, or you can play it with vlc (Sarge) or mplayer
22:20<chealer>tcsetattr: not all?
22:20<tcsetattr>what not at all?
22:20|-|Surtsey [] has joined #debian
22:20<need>yea i read that :)
22:20<tcsetattr>oh, not all. I assume there will be wma's with DRM that hasn't been broken yet.
22:21<need>im trying to go the quote illegal route unquote
22:21<dondelelcaro>kop: there are, actually. The most minimal is just packages which are Essential: yes and their dependencies
22:21<klys>which is the first I've heard of it
22:21<Surtsey>Quick question for anybody in the know - how on earth do I flush a Sid box's DNS cache? I find lots of BIND references on Google but that surely can't have anything to do with the networking layer.
22:22<dondelelcaro>kop: when a lot of people talk about a "base" install though, they mean packages of proriority "standard" and higher
22:22<kop>Where do I read about package priorities? In the debian-policy package?
22:22<tcsetattr>/etc/init.d/bind9 restart would be the simple way
22:22<kop>dondelelcaro: (It's in the passwd package which is priority "required".)
22:22<dondelelcaro>kop: apt-cache show foopkg; will show yo uthe priority
22:23<kop>dondelelcaro: But what tells me what the priorities mean?
22:23<dondelelcaro>kop: policy
22:23<kop>dondelelcaro: Thanks.
22:23|-|oscar_ [] has joined #debian
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22:24<oscar_>i have a warning , the bluetooth not conect, wraning in authentication
22:26|-|need [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:26<oscar_>Can't connect: Permission denied
22:26<tcsetattr>my next complaint is in the form of a puzzle. I did an "apt-get source pkgname". I then did a "cd pkgname<TAB>" and started making improvements. now I find out I was not working on the current stable version. I have only stable in sources.list. How?
22:27|-|porthose [] has joined #debian
22:27<chealer>tcsetattr: ...which version is it?
22:27<tcsetattr>that would be too big a hint :)
22:28<sathia>just passed by to let the ones who helped me yesterday that those ***** didn't check my patch
22:28<sathia>so depressed
22:28<chealer>tcsetattr: just a complaint, but not a question?
22:28<Surtsey>Nobody here knows how to flush a dns cache? :|
22:28<tcsetattr>it's the oldstable version, which I had apt-get source'd before the most recent release and then forgotten about. upstream version is the same so the directory name matched and apt-get source "skipped unpacking" it.
22:29|-|sathia [] has quit [Quit: bye all]
22:29<tcsetattr>not much of a complaint or a question. it's more like... an anecdote.
22:29|-|rjent_ [] has quit [Quit: Gone.]
22:30<tcsetattr>the lesson is always rm -rf an existing directory before you apt-get source
22:30<Surtsey>tcsetattr: What about the cache on a box without BIND installed? Surely Linux caches things on its own, internally - and surely BIND isn't required to reset that?
22:30<tcsetattr>you mean the nscd cache? I don't know about that.
22:31<tcsetattr>restart nscd, probably. I don't use it.
22:31<Surtsey>tcsetattr: No, I assume the networking structure caches DNS queries on its own for efficiency ... if not, I think I'll cry.
22:31|-|linac [] has joined #debian
22:31<chealer>tcsetattr: according to it should be fine
22:31<tcsetattr>the traditional unix interface to DNS (gethostbyname() and friends) does not do any caching. It was expected that the caching would be done by the nameservers.
22:31|-|stoffepojken [] has joined #debian
22:32<tcsetattr>nscd adds the ability to cache several kinds of things, including DNS, but I wouldn't trust it to do everything right, like obeying TTLs
22:33<tcsetattr>on a box without nscd enabled, if you look up the same host twice in a row, it will do two queries to the nameserver(s) defined in /etc/resolv.conf. No local caching.
22:33<Surtsey>Must a network cache I'm running into, then.
22:33<Surtsey>Gateway or something.
22:33<tcsetattr>now, some programs may do their own internal "remembering" of hosts the've connected to.
22:33|-|maik [] has quit []
22:33<Surtsey>tcsetattr: Your information has been very useful, thank you.
22:34<tcsetattr>like it's possible that mozilla might remember the most recently accessed hostname->IPaddress mappings and avoid additional queries. By doign so it would probably violate TTL rules but probably nobody would complain.
22:35<chealer>dpkg: no, wma is Windows Media Audio, a proprietary lossy audio data compression technology developed by Microsoft. Can be played with a xine-based player such as xine-ui, vlc or mplayer.
22:35<dpkg>okay, chealer
22:35<tcsetattr>looks like you're implying mplayer is xine-based :)
22:36<Surtsey>ffmpeg ftw!
22:36<ameyer>is VLC xine-based?
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22:37<Surtsey>ffmpeg, if I remember.
22:37<chealer>tcsetattr:'s ambiguous, yes
22:37<tcsetattr>I don't think so. I think ffmpeg/libavcodec is the common factor underneath them.
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22:37<Surtsey>chealer: Doesn't virtually every open video application have ffmpeg roots?
22:37<chealer>Surtsey: I know nothing about ffmpeg
22:38<tcsetattr>they all have the ability to use the ffmpeg codec library, libavcodec
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22:41<Surtsey>Anyway chealer, isn't there a lossless WMA too?
22:42<chealer>Surtsey: looks like that
22:42[~]ARitualSacrifice vanishes
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22:44<xfiles_ken>debian IRC有没有中文版块?
22:45<dpkg>cn is, like, China, or for help in chinese please /j #debian-zh, or for help in chinese please /j #debian-zh Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
22:45<ricky>Woah, encoding problem at the end there?
22:45<dondelelcaro>not sure, actually
22:45<ricky>Or maybe non-UTF.
22:45<dondelelcaro>yeah, it's definetly not utf8
22:45<litage_>what can i do to generate a log message that /bin/dmesg will display?
22:45<simonrvn>i saw most of those. i can't read it though
22:46<simonrvn>but the factoid is all messed up
22:46[~]simonrvn guesses dpkg's db isn't utf-8
22:47<dondelelcaro>it shouldn't have a problem with utf8 stuff
22:47|-|esaym [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:47<simonrvn>ok, it's set up for it?
22:47<simonrvn>probably the data itself then
22:47<dondelelcaro>well, there's no technical reason why it wouldn't be able to deal with it; no clue if it actually does though.
22:47<ricky>Maybe whoever input it gave it in a different encoding?
22:48<dondelelcaro>dpkg: encoding testing is <reply> IRC有没有中文版块?
22:48<dpkg>dondelelcaro: i'm not going to learn illegal characters
22:48<simonrvn>ricky: very likely
22:48<dondelelcaro>well, I guess that answers that question
22:48<simonrvn>yeh, probably no unicode support enabled ;)
22:48<kop>How does this look for a debian-reference-en patch against CVS HEAD?
22:48<chealer>dpkg: no, wma is Windows Media Audio, a proprietary audio data compression technology developed by Microsoft. Can be played with xine-based players, vlc or mplayer.
22:48<dpkg>okay, chealer
22:48<simonrvn>it's nice the clipboard supports that now ;)
22:48<dondelelcaro>it's actually more like the test is just wrong.
22:49<simonrvn>mm, possibly
22:51<simonrvn>one drawback of tracking emacs-snapshot: installation
22:51<simonrvn>"Byte-compiling add-on packages, please wait..."
22:54<dondelelcaro>oh, there's a new -snapshot
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22:55<kop>litage_: You might be able to write to /proc/kmsg, but that does not sound like a good idea. (See man klogd.) Why do you want to inject something into the kernel's log buffer?
22:55<simonrvn>dondelelcaro: yeh, today's
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22:58<dondelelcaro>yeah, the mirror I'm behind is behind
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22:59<simonrvn>dondelelcaro: i'm using this one, deb sid main
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23:06<tbrock>hey guys, what is the debian way to upgrade a kenrel
23:07<tbrock>whenever i do an apt-get upgrade it tells me my kernel upgrade has been held back
23:08<tcsetattr>try dist-upgrade
23:08<tbrock>but I'm not doing a dist-upgrade
23:08<weasel>read the manpage
23:08<tbrock>which manpage?
23:08<weasel>apparently you don't understand what dist-upgrade does
23:08<tbrock>can you just describe the general process and then i will read into it
23:08<tbrock>i don't want commands
23:09<weasel>type 'man' then a space, then 'apt-get'
23:09<kop>tbrock: The general process is described at in the reference manual.
23:09<tcsetattr>dist-upgrade doesn't _have_ to be upgrading to a new release. it's just an extra strong upgrade.
23:09<weasel>enter. then a slash, then 'dist-upgrade' then enter.
23:09<tbrock>i just wanted something like, you run dist-upgrade and then its just done
23:09<weasel>you run dist-upgrade and then its just done
23:09<weasel>happy now?
23:10<tbrock>weasel, you don't have to be a jerk about it, i just wanted to know if there might be a specific reason why it wouldn't just do it in an upgrade
23:10<tbrock>why would that be the case
23:10<weasel>yes, there is a very specific reason
23:10<tcsetattr>if you'd DO the dist-upgrade, you'd SEE the difference.
23:10<weasel>the manpage explains the difference between ugprade and dist-upgrade
23:10<weasel>I'm not going to read the manpage to you
23:10<tcsetattr>instead you waste time jibbering about it
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23:10<tbrock>ok, well then thank you
23:10<tbrock>I'll see whats in there
23:10|-|SPARTAN|KRATOS [] has quit []
23:10<tcsetattr>and if it doesn't behave differently, then you could say so.
23:11<tcsetattr>but if you refuse to try it we won't make progress.
23:11<kop>Also, it's a very bad idea to run commands when you don't understand what they do.
23:12<tbrock>ok that was very unhelpful
23:12<tbrock>i read it and it doesn't say whether i need to re-run lilo or whatever
23:12<tbrock>or basically anything other than this is a stronger form of upgrade
23:13<tcsetattr>upgrade tries its best to upgrade all existing packages without installing any new ones. dist-upgrade may install new ones if necessary.
23:13<amphi>tbrock: you're using lilo?
23:13<tbrock>no, whatever it is
23:13<tbrock>do i need to re-run it
23:13<amphi>tbrock: no
23:13<tbrock>or does it automatically just do the right thing
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23:14<tbrock>ok, thanks guys
23:14<tbrock>i appreciate the help
23:14<tbrock>ah yep, its running grub
23:16<weasel>(no, it isn't)
23:16|-|Surtsey [] has quit [Quit: G-lined]
23:16<tbrock>well grub-updatre
23:16<tbrock>hey what is this debian 4.0 updated on the site
23:17<tbrock>do i need to do anything to get that or is it already there if i update my system regularly
23:17<tbrock>or is there a special dist-upgrade command i need to run
23:17<tcsetattr>nothing special. the "update" is 4.0r1
23:18<tbrock>so do i need to change my apt-sources
23:18<tcsetattr>no, it's still etch and it's still stable
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23:18<tbrock>oh great
23:18<tcsetattr>if you update from the network you'd barely notice a difference. just that one day when it happened you probably had a few more packages upgraded than usual.
23:18<tbrock>ok so i rebooted, is there a way to tell if its a new kernel? it still says 2.6.18
23:19<tbrock>but now there is a -5 instead of -4 at the end
23:19<tbrock>is that how you can tell there was a change
23:19<tcsetattr>did you notice what version it downloaded?
23:19<tbrock>Setting up linux-image-2.6.18-5-686 (2.6.18.dfsg.1-13etch2) ...
23:20<tbrock>so i guess it was just minor debian fixes rather then a full fledged kernel update huh
23:20<tcsetattr>2.6.18-5 appears to be the latest in etch
23:21<tbrock>ok great, thanks tcsetattr
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23:21<tcsetattr> sure looks different these past few hours/days
23:21<tbrock>oh, i had another question... i got an e-mail from mysqlcheck
23:21<tbrock>and it said something about a check failing
23:22<tbrock>i quit mutt and it put the e-mail somewhere else even though i didnt' delete it, should i be concerned about this
23:22<tcsetattr>saved it in ~/mbox, or ~/mail/something
23:23<tbrock>is there any way to get that back
23:23<tcsetattr>that's probably configurable
23:23<tbrock>i was wondering why it wouldn't just stay in my box
23:23[~]simonrvn wonders why man apt-get would mention grub
23:23<weasel>tbrock: because it's not configured to
23:23<weasel>I'm sure there are many mutt tutorials around
23:24<tbrock>ok I'll take a look
23:24<tbrock>thanks guys
23:24|-|faw [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:24<tbrock>is this mysqlcheck thing normal
23:24<tbrock>or should i be worried my system was compromised and this might be a clue
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23:27<simonrvn>"ohnoz!!!111 y00 b33n h4x0r3d1!!1!!"
23:27<weasel>simonrvn: it's mysql. it can't get worse :)
23:28<simonrvn>yes it is normal. the init script triggers a high level check on the 'start' or 'restart'
23:28<simonrvn>weasel: for sure
23:29|-|mode/#debian [+l 286] by debhelper
23:36<tbrock>ok cool
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23:47<elmer>aygien me puede ayudar
23:47<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
23:48<tcsetattr>does anybody check out those foreign channels to see if we're sending people to a useful place? :)
23:48<dondelelcaro>the people who are in those channels are the ones who create the factoid, so at least they think they're useful
23:50<elmer>alguien me puede decir como hacer una particion en ntfs con linux
23:50<ricky>elmer: You're still in the English channel ;)
23:51|-|Holborn [] has joined #debian
23:52<ameyer>google translate, useless as ever...
23:52<ameyer>somebody can say to me like making a partition in ntfs with linux
23:52<tcsetattr>is it possible "hacer" could translate as "mount" in this special case?
23:53<tcsetattr>if not, yikes! what a question
23:54<ameyer>possibly a wordy "could somebody tell me how to format a ntfs partition in linux"
23:54<ameyer>I don't think you can...
23:55|-|knoppix_ [~knoppix@] has joined #debian
23:55<tcsetattr>that's what I meant by "yikes!". the thought that anyone would want to perform such an atrocity
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23:57<kop>FYI, Bug#440763: Acknowledgement (usbutils: lsusb silently ignores permission errors)
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23:58<gsimmons>ameyer: mkfs.ntfs (part of 'ntfsprogs') could be useful.
23:59<ameyer>well, I'll be...
23:59<gsimmons>ameyer: I'm sorry, that's actually a symlink to mkntfs.
23:59<ameyer>I would have thought that it couldn't be done
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 04 00:00:06 2007