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#debian IRC Logs for 2007-09-19

---Logopened Wed Sep 19 00:00:04 2007
---Daychanged Wed Sep 19 2007
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00:01<vod>yay i'm back that was a quick fix
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00:02<chealer>tct: tell it, or do better
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00:57<Gilbert>I'm trying to set up keys for ssh, how strong does the passphrase have to be for public/private keys?
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01:09<BoBoBoSs>a player for radio station ?
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01:12<BoBoBoSs>say me a player
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01:27<BoBoBoSs>a player for radio station ?
01:27<BoBoBoSs>say me
01:27<sheldonh>where can i find out why security updates for tar haven't hit etch yet, even though they've been migrated into testing?
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01:37<BoBoBoSs>a player for radio station ?
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01:41<BoBoBoSs>how search a program with apt ?
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01:42<Stilgar^>A short question, if you may:
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01:43<Stilgar^>I'm using debian unstable, and I've seen many related updates, which are kept back during the upgrade
01:43<Stilgar^>when I manually try to add some to the update, others must be removed for the update to proceed.
01:44<Stilgar^>how do I know if indeed some of the packages are replaced by new ones?
01:45<vortex>BoBoBoSs: apt-cache search <string>
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01:46<vortex>Stilgar^: aptitude or apt-get dist-upgrade will list them
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01:55<chealer>Stilgar^: check the package names and/or descriptions
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01:55<chealer>Stilgar^: if you have to ask though, unstable is probably not for you
01:57<BoBoBoSs>a plugin to listen aac radio station for xmms /?
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02:11<kreoxie>can some one tell me what im doing wrong or what is happening; i'm doing this: | and i get this:
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02:16<chealer>kreoxie: you're running the wrong command (apt-get install libapache2)
02:16<Stilgar^>chealer : Thanks
02:16<kreoxie>to install mod security?
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02:18<chealer>kreoxie: whatever you were trying to do, the website doesn't talk about "apt-get install libapache2"
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02:19<kreoxie>my questions is why is the sources saying something about no pub key
02:19<kreoxie>no it doesn't
02:20<chealer>kreoxie: because your APT doesn't have the repository's public key
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02:20<kreoxie>ok so how do i fix that
02:21<kreoxie>or i can't
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02:21<chealer>kreoxie: if possible, find the repository's key and add it to you APT's keys.
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02:25<Nazcafan>I would like to install an extra japanese font, using apt, but when I do that, it is installed as the default font for japanese input instead of sazanami-gothic
02:26<Nazcafan>and I would like to keep sazanami gothic as the default japanese font
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02:35<salman_>I am still in the search for a good package proxy that will work with my old low specs server, I am now trying approx but I am getting 403 error when I do apt-get update from the client
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02:36<kreoxie>chealer: i couldn't find a key, so i just downloaded the two things i need manually.... how do i install them when they both are saying they need each other to be installed
02:37<jm_>dpkg -i pkg1.deb pkg2.deb
02:37<dpkg>package pkg1.deb pkg2.deb is already installed
02:37<chealer>kreoxie: doesn't following the document work?
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02:41<seanius>kreoxie: try gpg --recv-keys <pubkey id>; gpg --export -a <pubkey id> | sudo apt-key add
02:41<kreoxie> ok thanks
02:41<seanius>ideally verifying the key somewhere along the way :)
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02:50<test1>hi, all
02:52<test1>is there a stable and good package compatible to netmeeting of windows to communicate with netmeeting/Win or other linux machines ?
02:55<entuall>test1, I seems to me that ekiga must do that
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03:11<gar>hi i install debian testing from netinst now i would like to install gnome i have my source.list setup from netselect-apt but i cant install gnome say alot of unmet dependencies..
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03:13<jm_>paste sources.list on some paste site
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03:15<gar>that the only line uncommented
03:15<gar>the rest are just explination text
03:17<jm_>ahh lenny, I can't help you with that
03:18<Scalpel_UT>anyone know what is wrong with X in the last few days? At my home box I only can get one of the two heads, at my workbox the mouse won't leave the 2nd head once it has been there.... (both unstable)
03:18<seanius>Scalpel_UT: big changes are going on with X in unstable right now
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03:21<freejake>when it ends, any info?
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03:21<Scalpel_UT>seanius: yeah I noticed... :(
03:21<Scalpel_UT>perhaps I should not run unstalble at work...
03:21<Scalpel_UT>it is save to "downgrade" to testing?
03:22<seanius>Scalpel_UT: i prefer to have apt-listchnges installed on at least one unstable machine when i upgrade
03:22<seanius>so then i can have an idea of what's going on :)
03:23<dli>Scalpel_UT, so many questions about unstable today :(
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03:23<seanius>Scalpel_UT: before trying downgrading you might want to ask some folks on #debian-x if the problems you're having are nknown
03:24<Scalpel_UT>seanius: :) I normally do only one at the time... just not this time *stupid...*
03:25<Scalpel_UT>seanius: thnx, I';ll start reading tehre ... gotta go back to work also ;)
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03:52<mjk>Does anyone *not* get the pop-up window "Unable to verify the identity of as a trusted site." for ""? I even imported SPI certs from /etc/ssl/certs (from pkg "ca-certificates") to no avail.
03:52<mjk>I'm using Iceweasel.
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03:53<test1>does anyone familiar with ekiga ?
03:54<dli>mjk, it's a server certificate problem, I think it's safe enough to trust it
03:54<test1>entuall, do you familiar with ekiga? it seems it needs a server to connect to it, named SIP server :-(
03:54<mjk>dli: So it's a problem on alioth's side?
03:54<test1>the ekiga completely hung :-(
03:54<dli>test1, register one at
03:55<dli>mjk, yes
03:55<test1>can anyone help me about ekiga
03:55<dli>mjk, they should sign their certificate properly
03:55<test1>i need to use the ekiga while i am disconnected from Internet
03:55<dli>test1, then, you can use h232
03:55<test1>how can i provide the SIP server that ekiga needs on my own linux box ?
03:56<test1>what is h232, it is name of a protocole, is there a package named such ?
03:56<mjk>dli: Now who of you is right? :-}
03:57<entuall>test1, I don't think netmeeting uses SIP, try with H323, imho ..
03:58<gsimmons>test1: Also refer to the Ekiga FAQ <>.
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04:04<jm_>mjk: openssl tells me verify error:num=19:self signed certificate in certificate chain
04:05<mjk>jm_: So (I'm not familiar with SSL etc. yet) it's definitely's fault?
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04:06<dli>mjk, self-signed is not a mistake :(
04:06<sheldonh>can dialog(1) put multiple widgets (a checklist and a menu) in a single dialog?
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04:07<mjk>dli: Hm, so it's just ... not trustworthy, right? It's like George W. stating "I'm neither a warmonger, liar, or idiot.", right?
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04:09<dli>mjk, you have to trust someone at least, in order to start, here you have to trust your ISP(DNS), and, pretty safe then
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04:10<mjk>dli: Hm, okay.
04:10<test1>hi, despite h232 or SIP or other protocols i want to do with Windows and linux boxes what the netmeeting of windows can do without any adithional server, is ther any solution ?
04:10<dli>test1, sorry, h.323
04:10<test1>i need : dom-thing/Linux <<------->> Netmeeting/Windows
04:11<test1>without any other machine needed
04:11<test1>i need : some-thing/Linux <<------->> Netmeeting/Windows
04:11<dli>test1, yes, you can do that
04:11<jm_>dli: not quite sure how to interprete this info, tried telling it to use SPI_CA_2006-cacert.pem but it's the same
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04:14<test1>dli, i can do that, with what things, ekiga, .... ?
04:15<dli>jm_, yes, i got the "for unknown reason" too
04:16<dli>test1, yes, ekiga
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04:19<mjk>sheldonh: I don't think so, from what I've seen in /usr/share/doc/dialog/examples and the manual page. The manpage only mentions chaining dialog boxes.
04:19<sheldonh>okay, so i'll just have to get clear working, and live with pressing enter twice :)
04:19<sheldonh>mjk: thanks
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04:20<jm_>ohh I see I addressed wrong person earlier ;)
04:20<jm_>mjk: not quite sure how to interprete this info, tried telling it to use SPI_CA_2006-cacert.pem but it's the same
04:20<mjk>sheldonh: =) I thought that whiptail was an alternative, but it seems to be just a restricted version of dialog.
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04:21<sheldonh>mjk: alas and alack :)
04:21<mjk>sheldonh: :-}
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04:22<mjk>jm_: How did you check the site's certificate with openssl?
04:22<jm_>mjk: s_client
04:22<sheldonh>mjk: it's weird. if i cancel the first dialog, the next one renders fine. if i say "OK" on the first one, i get visual corruption from the first on the second:
04:22<thank>w3m can display picture ??
04:22<thank>who can kindly help me
04:22<jm_>w3m-img can
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04:23<thank>i have already install this pkg (w3m-img
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04:23<thank>but stil not display picure
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04:24<mjk>thank: X11 or console?
04:24<mjk>thank: w3m-img needs a framebuffer (i. e. graphical) console to display images. You need to load framebuffer kernel modules specific to your graphics card.
04:25<jm_>maybe he meant KDE's konsole ;)
04:25<mjk>jm_: Argh! %-)
04:25<jm_>try it in xterm, WFM
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04:26<mjk>jm_: Maybe he doesn't have or want X11? I used w3m-img for my X11-less gateway.
04:26<thank>how to load framebuffer kernel modules
04:26<jm_>mjk: yeah once we clarify if he uses KDE we might know that
04:26<mjk>thank: modprobe <name of the module>
04:27<mjk>thank: Are we talking about the console you get when you press Ctrl-Alt-F1?
04:27<thank>try it
04:27<thank>i see
04:27<thank>it's must really console
04:27<thank>not konsole ro xterm
04:27<thank>yes ??
04:27<mjk>thank: Okay, then we're talking about the same thing. :-)
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04:29<thank>what's name of framebuffer kernel modules ??
04:30<mjk>jm_: If I'm getting on your nerves, please tell me, but: could tell me how /exactly/ you checked the cert? From the error window ("can't verify alioth cert etc.", I chose "View certitficate", then "Details", then copied the content of "Certificate Signature Value" (w/o the 1st line) to a file. Now what? "openssh s_client" gives a "connect: Connection refused".
04:30<thank>or grub parm kennel line add vga=791??
04:30<jm_>mjk: naah no problem, I thought you're familiar with it -- openssl s_client -connect -showcerts
04:31<thank>sorry i must leave and thank your help
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04:31<mjk>thank: Hm yeah, this /could/ work. I've never used that method, though, I have "vga=normal" and then load the modules for my card.
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04:32<thank>ok ,thank you
04:32<mjk>jm_: Aaaaah! Now that command makes sense. :-)
04:32<mjk>bye, thank
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04:52<dallix_>howdy ya'll,
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04:55<dallix_>i installed kde in Synaptic Package Manager and i would like to remove it.
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04:56<dallix_>my problem is that by choosing the kde meta-pakage, it removes only the meta pakage, and nothing els.
04:56<dallix_>is there a work around?
04:57<lupine>sure. installing kde with aptitude
04:57<lupine>ah well
04:57<lupine>removing one of the core kde libs should remove most kde stuff
04:57<dallix_>lupine: too late fore that.
04:58<lupine>I know :D
04:58<lupine>or you could dpkg -l |grep kde
04:58<dallix_>ok i'll try that, thanks.
04:59<lupine>that'll list all the kde-associated packages currently installed
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05:00<dallix_>so that means that i'll have to uninstall them in synaptic?
05:00<dallix_>clarification: them=pakages listed
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05:08<dallix_>lupine: many thanks. kde is gone.
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05:09<jm_>!remove kde
05:09<dpkg>it has been said that remove kde is aptitude purge kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a
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05:27<Borszczuk>anyone can give ma a hint, keyword to search for -> I want to build packages for various versions od debian. I use unstable on my destktop, but want to build for stable as well. How shall I setup the machine to do this? I expect there're some packages that are suited for this, still I do not know what shall I look for exactly.
05:28<padski>there are other similar things
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05:29<Borszczuk>padski, thanks. let me check that one
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05:31<Borszczuk>other thing - I noticed that for a few years debian is uninstallable on AMD Durons. I've tried many boxes - whenever it's duron, kernel panics. even you install on other box, install the packaged amd k7 kernel and put the hdd back to the duron box - it will again panic on startup. when I build the kernel myself - it's all ok. I didn't investigate, but maybe it's a widely known issue?
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05:32<padski>11:30:28 up 97 days, 23:31
05:33<padski>model name : AMD Duron(tm) Processor
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05:33<Borszczuk>padski, custom kernel?
05:33<padski>no, stock etch kernels.
05:34<padski>I had a problem a while back that turned out to be too smal a psu. but that wouldn't apply to your case.
05:35<Borszczuk>that's odd. I tried debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso yesterday, with the results I gave. this is something I am facing for a couple of years
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05:35<Borszczuk>mainboard maybe, then?
05:35<jm_>where does it panic?
05:35<padski>on multiple systems ? do they use the same board ?
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05:36<Borszczuk>i got no statistics here, but I recall it was mostly some kind of ECS K7S5A or something
05:37<Borszczuk>once installed in panics very early. i'd have to boot it as I do not remember exactly what message it spits out.
05:39<Borszczuk>I however recall that while googling about that I found a thread and the guy used some soft of exactmap option on boot. it did not solve my problem, but made the kernel crash later on. so it might be I am just facing a special?
05:40<Borszczuk>not that I am very desperate to solve this, as I am now always put my own kernel package on durons, but since this problems occurs here for so long, I just wonder what it may be
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05:40<padski>memory detection problem ?
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05:41<Borszczuk>might be
05:41<Borszczuk>as I said - I did not investigate much
05:41<filemover>hi there i want to know what the meaning of a virtual package is in aptitude ie when u do a search for a package there is a V Package name :Description
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05:42<Borszczuk>from time to time I get duron to reinstall and then I recall the issue.
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05:42<lupine>filemover: it's a package that doesn't have an associated .deb file
05:42<Borszczuk>filemover, virtual package does not contain any files, but it depends on other packages so it enforces installation of them
05:42<lupine>Borszczuk: that's a metapackage ;)
05:42<filemover>i see
05:42<Borszczuk>lupine, true
05:43<filemover>so that would be like a script or something
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05:43<lupine>virtual packages are provided by several different real packages - they're used to indicate where a function, rather than a particular program, is needed
05:43<lupine>e.g. exim and postfix might provide the virtual package 'mail-transport-agent' (an example)
05:43<filemover>i see
05:44<lupine>then if a program needs an MTA, but doesn't care which one, it can depend on the virtual package mail-transport-agent
05:44<filemover>its sort of getting a little clearer
05:44<filemover>im trying to install nvidia drivers and im having a hard time with it but ill keep at it
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05:49<haugha>How do I restore the default squid configuration....squid.conf?
05:50<ben_goodger>dpkg-reconfigure $SQUID_PACKAGE_NAME?
05:51<lupine>dpkg-reconfigure: unknown package: `'
05:52<lupine>what does dpkg-reconfigure do, exactly, anyway? does it just re-run the pre/post inst/rm scripts, or does it do anything with files in /etc as well?
05:52<jm_>haugha: grab it from /usr/share/doc/squid/examples/squid.conf
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06:06<doener>On a sid (amd64) installation, dpkg fails to correctly talk to debconf when I'm asked how to proceed with a config file that I manually changed.
06:06<doener>Error: unknown response from debconf:'keep the local version currently installed'
06:06<doener>Is that a problem on my side? And if not, which package should I file a bug against?
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06:21<haugha>how do I nat between two interfaces with iptables?
06:21<jm_>read nat howto/iptables tutorial
06:22<lupine>do you /need/ to nat? bridging might be a more appropriate solution
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06:22<lupine>(in particular, avoiding double-nat is a Good Idea)
06:23<Borszczuk>haugha, iptables website got a couple of tutorials. easy read and you will get the picture
06:24<Borszczuk>lupine, i think for most people nat is more appropriate than bridging
06:24<padski>haugha, but in case you find you want to ;-)
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06:25<lupine>Borszczuk: that really depends on what the internet interface is like
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06:25<lupine>if s/he's already natt'ed, an extra layer of nat will probably do no good and serve no useful purpose
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06:26<padski>lupine, where is your sense of fun! ;-)
06:27<lupine>sat with all my publicly-addressable IP addresses, laughing at the NAT users :p
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06:32<haugha>iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE <-- why does natting work without this line?
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06:33<haugha>As soon as I do this: echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward.. the routing routes traffic out
06:33<haugha>on all interfaces
06:33<row>How does one convert a encrypted private key made with openssl to a unencrypted one, I still know the passphrase?
06:33<haugha>I want only the natted.. and not all my other ip classes
06:34<lupine>you, um, probably need ip forwarding to be /enabled/
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06:35<haugha>lupine, sorry. I meant: As soon as I do this: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward.. the routing routes traffic out
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06:48<jacob>how do i install ?ndiswrapper
06:48<gsimmons_>!ndiswrapper one-liner
06:48<dpkg>somebody said ndiswrapper one-liner was apt-get install build-essential module-assistant && m-a a-i ndiswrapper
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06:49<jacob>thank you very much
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07:26<sandy>i have a problem i am not able to update and upgrade my system and i am not able to open any site , but i am able to use xchat and pidgin what to do can anyone hlep me plzzzz
07:27<Jasons>sandy: why cant you update it?
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07:30<sandy><Jasons> if i use apt-get update it is stoping after some time
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07:32<stew>sandy: does it give an error?
07:32<nubbun>Anyone used the Andrew User Interface System? Your opinions on it?
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07:33<Fede24>i have a problema
07:33<Fede24>i want hello peolple
07:33<Fede24>i want to install a desktop environment for debian
07:33<sandy>recently i upgraded the system and it got off in between and the problem started from there
07:34<Fede24>but the server is not answering,
07:34<Fede24>how can i change the server?
07:35<Inty>Fede24, edit /etc/apt/sources.lst
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07:36<stew>sandy: show us the actual command you typed and the actual output, use a pastebin: /msg dpkg pastebin
07:36<sandy>su apt-get update
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07:37<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, ask me about <nvidia one-liner> for a reminder.
07:37<sandy>opt is waiting for headers
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07:38<Fede24>Inty: how do i edit this file?
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07:39<lupine>Fede24: any random text editor as root
07:40<Gorgoi>dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ircd-hybrid_1%3a7.2.2.dfsg.2-3_i386.deb (--unpack):
07:40<dpkg>That isn't an error, post the whole output to paster.
07:40<Gorgoi> subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
07:40<Gorgoi>Errors were encountered while processing:
07:40<Gorgoi>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
07:40<stew>Gorgoi: please don't paste in here, use a pastebin: /msg dpkg pastebin
07:40<Gorgoi>help me please
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07:40<Fede24>Inty : i don´t know any text editor neither how to open it...
07:40<Jasons>Fede24: nano, jed, vi, vim
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07:41<flufsor>anybody here?
07:41<Jasons>flufsor: nope
07:41<Vakio>Looks like it.
07:41<Fede24>Inty : ok tahks
07:41<stew>Gorgoi: i'd recommend editit /var/lib/dpkg/info/ircd-hybrid.preinst and add "set -x" as the second line, this will tell you what it is doing when it fails
07:42<flufsor>can i ask you guys something ?
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07:42<Jasons>!tell flufsor about ask
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07:42<Fede24>Inty : nano says: "no encontrado"
07:42<spanther>i love debian x)
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07:43<Gorgoi>stew:thx A lot
07:43<Inty>Fede24, nano /etc/apt/sources.lst
07:43<flufsor>how do i set a process to a single core in debian?
07:43<Inty>as root
07:43<Inty>not as a normal user
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07:44<nico>should CUPS be used for workstation (that do not act as print server)? or doesn't it have anything to do with being or not a print server?
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07:44<Inty>nico, if you want to print you need cups
07:44<Inty>simple as that
07:44<petemc>cups is often used to configure a local printer
07:44<Fede24>Inty: nano don´t find the file
07:45<petemc>configure and use, i should say
07:45<Jasons>Fede24: if you're not in the directory you have to use the complete path
07:45<Fede24>ano dosen´t find the
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07:45<nico>yep? cause i get the choice between 2 models in the "add printer" menu: the actual model of my printer, and the second is the model followed by "CUPS+Gutenprint", so what's the difference?
07:45<Fede24>ok i´ll see
07:46<padski>flufsor, sched_set_affinity()
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07:46|-|nico changed nick to nico__
07:46<knoppix_>HI MÄDELS
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07:46|-|knoppix_ changed nick to Guest637
07:47<Guest637>IH LIEBE EUCH
07:47<Jasons>we see you Guest637
07:47<dpkg>from memory, de is deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf und - German speaking users please go to (on and freenode)
07:47<padski>flufsor, no doubt there is a commandline utility or support in a gui but I don't know it.
07:47<Jasons>or i think its de at least
07:47<Guest637>OK GRINS*
07:47<nico__>Inty, could it be that the first one doesn't use CUPS but lower level stuff? (lp/lpr?)
07:47<Jasons>Guest637: press your caps lock key please
07:47<weasel>Jasons: not that we need such users there, thanks.
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07:48<Jasons>weasel: heh, sorry
07:48<Inty>nico__, lp/lpr is command line printing
07:48<Inty>cups is a whole different application
07:48<Fede24>inty: the file is not found
07:48<Inty>Fede24, goto /etc/apt
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07:49<Inty>using: cd /etp/apt
07:49<Inty>there is a file there: sources.list
07:49<Inty>edit that
07:49<Inty>using: nano sources.list
07:49<nico__>Inty, so do you know the difference between these 2 entries in the models list? the one with "CUPS+Gutenprint" and the one without? what is the one without for, if CUPS is needed to print?
07:49<padski>ah, its called chaff. long time since I had an smp box.
07:49<Inty>nico__, gutenprint is extra printer support drivers
07:50<nico__>so i guess i should pick that one :-/
07:50<Inty>could be
07:50<Inty>if gutenprint supports your printer
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07:50<nico__>actually the other entry seems to use hpijs and HPLIB instead of "standard" as the driver
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07:52<Fede24>inty: i have used cd /etp/apt
07:52<Inty>not etp
07:52<Fede24>now ai must go to nano or opne the file?
07:52<Fede24>cd /etc/apt
07:53<Inty>nano sources.list
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07:53<Jasons>Fede24: then nano sources.list done as root
07:53<Fede24>i´ll try
07:53<Inty><padski> ah, its called chaff. long time since I had an smp box.
07:53<Inty>i want an SMP box too
07:54<haugha>Why is every device natted when I do: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
07:54<padski>Inty, I've moved on from that. Here are my latest thoughts: there is a section on wikipedia "Fictional Golems". wonder if there is a "Non-Fictional Golems"
07:56<petemc>haugha: how are you confirming something is "natted" ?
07:56<jimmypw>does anyone use nagios? specifically the NRPE Daemon?
07:56<padski>don't a lot of the modern processors appear as smp ?
07:56<mikegrb>I have a distributed faill-over nagios setup but I'm not using nrpe
07:56<padski>jimmypw, how is it going withnagios ?
07:56<mikegrb>will be afk for about 10 minutes but back then
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07:57<jimmypw>padski: awsome, i'd call myself a bit of a pro now :)
07:57<haugha>petemc, with pinging from an internal box out on the internet
07:57<petemc>haugha: what would you like to happen when you enable ip_forwarding?
07:58<jimmypw>basically i was wondering if there are any known security issues (excluding command arguements) with the NRPE daemon
07:58<padski>jimmypw, lol, glad to hear it :-)
07:58<haugha>petemc, I want one ipclass denied.. and one allowed
07:59<haugha>Now both is allowed
07:59<haugha>On another older box I have.. I put the rule in: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE
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07:59<haugha>and only the adress is allowed
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08:00<haugha>Now.. all interfaces is allowed as soon as I enable forwarding
08:00<petemc>iptables -A FORWARD -s badiprange -o eth0 -j DROP
08:00<Fede24>inty: do you know a server`s http from where can i download gnome?
08:00<haugha>petemc, ok. thanks
08:01<sametch>Hi guys I would like to install debian on PII 400Mhz 256, whicth distro would be best woody or sarge?
08:01<Inty>Fede24, all debian servers
08:01<Fede24>inty: where can i find the http of a debian server?
08:02<sametch>lupine, do you mean I can install etch on PII?
08:02<jimmypw>Fede24: do you want to compile it or just install it?
08:02<lupine>sametch: of course you can
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08:02<Fede24>just install it
08:02<lupine>this is linux, not windows :D
08:02<sametch>no just install it
08:02<sametch>I know
08:02<jimmypw>fede24: apt-get update && apt-get install gnome ?
08:03<sametch>the reason I've tried this morning to install etch on PII and couldn't mount the CD
08:03<lupine>later versions don't, as a general rule, require later hardware (monstrously large DEs aside)
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08:03<sametch>so debian etch 4.0 will do
08:05<chealer>sametch: sarge
08:05<sametch>Ok ,chealer
08:06<sametch>I meant thanks
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08:06<padski>sametch, "couldn't mount the CD" ? what was the error and when ?
08:07<sametch>I have to say I just coverted from wi****s to Linux
08:07<sametch>and I'm lovin every minute of it,specially when I knew that Debian I was the first distro:)
08:07<padski>is that an answer? ;-)
08:08<sametch>padski ,there was no error ,it just hang
08:08<padski>sametch, did it start booting from the cd ?
08:08<sametch>here is the answer, I was just trying to introduce my self:)
08:08<sametch>I started booting from the cd
08:09<sametch>and then installgui
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08:09<padski>cool, I've never seen the gui :-)
08:09<sametch>started to load all the way and then it got stuck on mounting cd
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08:10<sametch>when you boot from the cd and the boot prompt just type:installgui
08:10<padski>I'll have to try that out
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08:11<sametch>did I mention that it was etch 4.0r1
08:12<padski>wasn't there an r2 ?
08:12<lupine>not yet
08:13<lupine>maybe the 2.6 kernel is having difficulty coping with the hardware? seems unlikely though#
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08:14<padski>sametch, there is some logging on another Virtual Console. you might find a better error message there
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08:17<sametch>sorry my laptop just shutoff , I'm back
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08:17<sametch>whar did I miss?
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08:17<sametch>my spelling is like hell tonight sorry
08:18<padski>missed nothing
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08:20<daje>hello, could anyone give me some advice on luks/cryptsetup?
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08:20<moicano>Algum brasileiro?
08:20<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
08:21<moicano>padski im try join but
08:21<moicano>[10:19:46] -ChanServ- You do not have access to the UNBAN command on #debian-br. Identifying to your
08:21<moicano>[10:19:46] -ChanServ- nickname may give you this access. See nickname services' HELP IDENTIFY
08:21<moicano>[10:19:46] -ChanServ- command for more information.
08:21|-|moicano kicked [#debian] debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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08:21<moicano>@ abused
08:21|-|adam_ changed nick to maxamillion
08:21<moicano>in channel br
08:21<padski>moicano, best not to paste here
08:22<moicano>[padski]: sorry
08:22<moicano>well, fuck brazilian guys
08:22<padski>moicano, no worries.
08:23<Frolic>moicano, could you do a /j #debian-br ?
08:23<moicano>Fede24 I dont know
08:23<Frolic>moicano, I cant see you nick in the ban list.
08:23|-|ra1nb0w [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:23<moicano>only msg (+b)
08:23|-|daje [] has left #debian [Leaving]
08:23<moicano>Frolic all IP's
08:23<moicano>189.24 banned
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08:25<Frolic>moicano, Do you know why?
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08:26<moicano>Frolic I dont know. channel br never
08:26<moicano>have @
08:28<Frolic>moicano, just a minute.
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08:34<sametch>i can't find the sarge.iso from here?
08:37<Inty>sametch, google?
08:38|-|juliank [] has joined #debian
08:38<sametch>I found a mirror from
08:38<sametch>thanx Inty
08:40<Inty>hmm may servers serving the current stable iso's (etch), still also serve the oldstable (sarge) iso's
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08:43<sametch>Thanks Guys I shall see you all 2morrow
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08:55<logyati>im trying to put the progress bar of my bootsplash to work
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08:55<logyati>i've tried some tutorials, no success
08:55<logyati>could u help me guys?
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08:56<lupine>bootsplash ftl
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09:05<dallix_>i am having problems getting to put my debian etch into suspend.
09:06<dallix_>all my computer does is sit there, after hours it still does nothing.
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09:08<dallix_>during my installatin, it said something like "your swap partion is unactive. you mght have problems getting your computer into suspend
09:08<lupine>mm. you need an active swap partition for suspend to disk
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09:08<logyati>i need a good usplash tutorial
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09:09<dallix_>it also said when you reboot your computer cheack out " (a 4 letter semingly random bunch of lower case letters.
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09:10<padski>don;t thank me, thank google ;-)
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09:11<logyati>ty lorg google
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09:19<Fede24>inty: i´ve installoed gnome, tahks
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09:22<padski>I can't make head or tail of how to use unison against a windows box over ssh
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09:24<filemover>hello I need to find the version of gcc used to compile my current kernel. Its a stock compiled kernel from the repositorys
09:25<lupine>etch: 4.1.1, I believe
09:25<kmap>filemover: /usr/share/doc/linux-image-$(uname -r)/buildinfo.gz
09:26<padski>filemover, it is in the full version text string in the vmlinux file. if you find the gzip magic in the vmlinuz file you can unzip and strings it.
09:26<filemover>thnx kmap
09:26<kmap>filemover: No problem
09:26<kmap>filemover: No, it won't help
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09:26<kmap>filemover: It's there only for custom kernels. Sorry! :-(
09:26<filemover>its ok
09:27<padski>kmap, no really I see that with a stock kernel
09:27<lupine>I don't
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09:27<kmap>padski: Could be. 2.6.22-1-686 stock doesn't have it
09:27<dallix_>how do i make an active swap partion for suspend to disk.
09:27<lupine>apt-file doesn't see it either
09:27<kmap>padski, which stock version?
09:28<lupine>lenny, sid seem to use 4.2.1
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09:28<filemover>no such file or directory
09:28<padski>2.6.18-4 both the 686 and k7
09:28<kmap>lupine, Is there a way of figuring out; I mean from the install?
09:29<padski>I should upgrade those really ;-)
09:29<lupine>not AFAIK.
09:29<filemover>i need to knw what version so i can compile the nvidia kernel module and it wont work unles i have the same gcc
09:29<padski>see above, it is in the actual kernel image
09:29<kmap>padski: It's there in some, not in others!
09:29<padski>kmap, in the actaul image file itself, not just the package
09:30<kmap>padski: I'll check
09:31<padski>cat /proc/version
09:31<kmap>padski: Just got that from Google as well
09:31<lupine>ooh, handy
09:31<filemover>are u sure its /usr/doc
09:31<kmap>padski: Thanks!
09:31<filemover>are u sure its /usr/share/doc
09:31<lupine> gcc version 4.1.3 20070718 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.2-14))
09:32<kmap>filemover: The new one is cat /proc/version, thanks to padski
09:32<padski>I figured it had to be in proc somewhere. its the same string that is used for uname -a
09:32<kmap>But uname -a strips the compiler version.
09:32<padski>(only that doesn't have this bit)
09:32<padski>kmap, exactly
09:33<filemover>thats great infor
09:34|-|nommmm [~nom@] has joined #debian
09:34<nommmm>How do I mount my Nokia 7610 using usb cable?
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09:37<filemover>gcc version 4.1.3 came up from "cat /proc/version" and after aptitude search gcc I can see i have gcc 4.1 installed but im still getting errors when trying to compile nvidia
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09:38<kmap>filemover, Are you sure that is being used?
09:38<kmap>filemover, for the compilation, that is
09:38<filemover>no im not
09:38<filemover>i also have 4.2 on the system as well
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09:38<qbit>filemover: just type "export CC=/bin/gcc4.1"
09:39|-|mode/#debian [+l 338] by debhelper
09:39<qbit>then re-run the installer
09:39<qbit>had to do that yesterday
09:39|-|paveq_ [] has joined #debian
09:39<filemover>illgive it a go
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09:41[~]MxStyleZ is using X-Sys v2.0.9 (
09:41|-|knoppix_ changed nick to Matt987
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09:44<filemover>isnt /bin the default directory fro gcc
09:45<filemover>im finding it in /usr/bin
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09:45<lupine>if it were in /bin, that would be weird
09:46<stew>filemover: no, /usr/bin is correct, since it is not generally needed in order to mount the /usr partition
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09:47<filemover>is that sometimes a symlink to gcc-version
09:47<stew>filemover: always in debian (run "readlink $(which gcc)")
09:47<filemover>ah! i see
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09:49<filemover>theres so many programmes i dont knw about readlink ive never seen that b4
09:49<filemover>so instead of setting the CC variable i could just redirect the g++ link to the right version
09:50<lupine>you could...
09:50<lupine>wouldn't suggest it though
09:50<filemover>your right
09:50<Eulex>ls -al /usr/bin/gcc will show you where the link goes too. you might be a little more familiar with that command ;)
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09:50<stew>-f is generally a good idea for readlink
09:50<filemover>ive found it its in the same directory
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09:51<lupine>filemover: you can generally use // or / / to get a / at the beginning of a line in IRC
09:52<filemover>ok thnx
09:52<filemover>i see
09:52<filemover>ive set CC to /usr/bin/gcc-4.1
09:53<filemover>so it should work now
09:53<lupine>it should indeed
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09:59<qbit>woops... sorry wrong path :P
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10:02<filemover>ok i had a go at compiling the module and it failed in the log at one point it says that it couldnt see gcc-4.1 but later on the in the log it lists 4.1 as being the recognzed compiler on the system and then i got an error at the bottom of the log which is this FATAL: modpost: GPL-incompatible module nvidia.ko uses GPL-only symbol
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10:03<filemover>ive got a package from the nvidia site that is supposed to install everything i might give that a try
10:04<lupine>ho hum. isn't that a paravirt-ops problem?
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10:05<filemover>what exactly is paravirt-ops
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10:05<lupine>a kernel compilation option. What version is your kernel, again?
10:05<lupine>It was turned on in 2.6.21 by default, and back off again in 2.6.22
10:06<filemover>i see
10:06<lupine>so upgrading to the sid kernel solves your issue
10:06|-|myles [] has joined #debian
10:06<filemover>got it
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10:06<filemover>how do upgrade the kernel i cant find 2.6.22 in aptitude
10:06<filemover>is there a howto for that
10:07<lupine>you need to add the sid repo to your apt sources
10:07<dpkg>the <unstable> or <thermite> version of Debian. Commonly backronymed Still In Development. It's actually named for the destructive neighbour kid in Toy Story. Ask me about unstable. Do not use sid unless you have the skill to find your way out of the mess that broken packages may put you in. It will never be released. see <sid faq>
10:07<dpkg>If you are running stable, don't pin; use a backport. Ask me about <backports> or <simple sid backport>. If you're using testing, man apt_preferences or see
10:07<stew>filemover: what version of debian are you running?
10:07<lupine>by those how-tos combined, you will have the power
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10:09<lupine>ah; paravirt-ops is still enabled, by the looks of things; it's just not GPL-only in .22
10:09<filemover>looks like i have to upgrade
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10:10<sheldonh>what was the factoid about the most important unix rules?
10:10<lupine>you only need to update the kernel
10:10<sheldonh>(like "the first error is the most important")?
10:10<filemover>in sid
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10:11<_richard_>trying to understand ssh-agent: is ~/.ssh/authorized_keys the same as ~/.ssh/known_hosts? I don't have an authorized_keys
10:11<filemover>so i change the version to thermite or unstable
10:11<filemover>instead of lenny which i have now
10:11<pengol>hi there ... anybody has experienced problems upgrading unstable? I have huge unreadable fonts in X ... any other?
10:11<lupine>_richard_: no. authorized_keys is the list of keys that you can login as. known_hosts is a list of what keys belong with what IP addresses
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10:12<lupine>filemover: you can do that, then apt-get update, then install the kernel, then change it back to lenny
10:12<_richard_>so do I just create it by hand?
10:12<lupine>I don't really recommend you upgrade to sid completely
10:12<lupine>_richard_: yep
10:12<filemover>ill make a new sources list just for the purpose
10:12<stew>filemover: you don't want to run unstable
10:12<lupine>it has to be perms 600 and chown'd to the right user
10:13<filemover>only for the sake of fixing this problem
10:13<stew>filemover: you don't want to run unstable for the sake of fixing this problem
10:13<filemover>but im thinking there must be a reason nvidia was fixed in lenny
10:14<filemover>anyway ill dive into the deep now and update this kernel
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10:16<pengol>Anybody can helpme fixing this pproblem? I have updated xorg and now al the text in the windows decoration is huge ... The system is unusable
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10:17<_richard_>lupine: that perms 600 comment was to me I guess
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10:18<stew>pengol: have you checked that you are running at the resolution you expect to be running with?
10:18<Caino>hi all!!!
10:19<Caino>hi die_z
10:19<stew>_richard_: i dont' recommend creating authorized_keys, by hand, i recommend using ssh-copy-id
10:19<filemover>is lenny regarded as stable
10:19<_richard_>too late -- done it. next time if it doesnt work
10:19<Jasons>filemover: no etch is stable, lenny is testing
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10:20<filemover>so i have to update from unstable
10:20<stew>filemover: no, you don't
10:20<pengol>stew: the problem is not the resolution
10:20<pengol>stew: only some fonts are huge
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10:21<pengol>the font in the terminal are ok
10:21<filemover>im reading about pinning now
10:21<stew>pengol: in which windows?
10:21<pengol>the fonts in the window decoration are huge
10:21<stew>pengol: gtk?
10:21<pengol>therefore any apps have this font big
10:21<stew>pengol: or qt?
10:21<pengol>I tryed both
10:21<pengol>qt and gtk
10:21<wouterl>If I'm correct, debian is build for i486 (for the x86 systems). How would the performance/speed be if it was build for i686 for those systems. Would there be a lot of difference?
10:21<stew>pengol: by window decoration you mean titlebars and such?
10:22<pengol>stew: yes
10:22<stew>pengol: then it is your window manager
10:22<pengol>also menus and stuff
10:22<stew>wouterl: almost all of the performance gains can be realized by installing libc6-686
10:22<pengol>stew: nope because it also happens in the applications
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10:23<stew>pengol: where in the applications?
10:23<pengol>stew: pidgin firefox any application has this huge fonts
10:23<stew>pengol: where?
10:23<pengol>I told you
10:23<pengol>and also inside
10:23<stew>use switch2 from gtk-theme-switch
10:23<stew>what dpi/resolotion is the server running at?
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10:24<pengol>stew: resolution is good
10:25<pengol>stew: xterm without the wm runs ok
10:25<Alexbleks>Hi, I got 2 monitors connected to my gfx card (2 DVI outputs), how can I make it dual-view? Its cloned now
10:25<stew>pengol: what dpi/resolotion is the server running at?
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10:25<pengol>the problem happens when I launc dpi 75
10:25<stew>Alexbleks: which driver are you using?
10:25<pengol>dpi 75
10:26<Alexbleks>stew: latest nvidia driver
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10:26<wouterl>stew, so building the complete system on i686 would give a lot of performance gain?
10:26<stew>wouterl: no
10:26<stew>wouterl: very little
10:27<pengol>stew: I'm looking at the log it says it can't find /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts...
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10:28<stew>pengol: yeah, it hsouldn't be able to, that is from R6 and you are now running R7, that changed when you moved from xorg6.9 to xorg7 which probably happened a long time ago
10:28|-|Guest645 changed nick to theo
10:28<pengol>so that can't be the problem
10:29|-|mode/#debian [+l 344] by debhelper
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10:29<filemover>so u can acutally add sid to sources.list and then specify which version u want to install from
10:30<filemover>after editing prefferences
10:30[~]Jasons is thinking filemover is bound and determined to install sid regardless of what they are told
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10:31<filemover>its all part of a learning process
10:31<filemover>i suppose
10:31<pengol>stew: where else can be?
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10:37<pengol>stew: resolution is 1280x800
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10:48<pengol>only rxvt a xterm fonts works correctly
10:48<gatorx>como trabaja esto?
10:48<pengol>anybody has upgraded unstable today?
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10:50<christian_>hi, where can i find the kernel? in which directionary is the kernel?
10:51<qbit>it's in /boot
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10:53<christian_>Making module
10:53<christian_>make -C /boot SUBDIRS=/tmp/vpnclient modules
10:53<christian_>make[1]: Entering directory `/boot'
10:53<christian_>make[1]: *** Keine Regel, um »modules« zu erstellen. Schluss.
10:53<christian_>make[1]: Leaving directory `/boot'
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10:54<christian_>can somebody explain me, where the misstake is?
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10:54<cahoot>you probably want linux-headers-$(uname -r)
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10:56<doener>christian_: /boot is where the binary kernel image is stored, you want the directory with the kernel sources
10:57<doener>(or maybe just the headers are enough)
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10:59<doener>christian_: try "readlink /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build" to find out which directory that is (or was it .../source?)
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11:03<christian_>Directory containing linux kernel source code
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11:10<crazytobster>I love Debian and Ubuntu but I really can not see the differences between one Debian base system compared to another
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11:12<Eulex>crazytobster, package versions? in any case, got an real question?
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11:12<Jasons>guess not
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11:19<eldowan>quanta now refuses to start, and ties up one core of my CPU completely. I have renamed .kde/share/apps/quanta folder, and tried to run it as a different user. I would try to purge, and re install, but it wants to remove the kde package. Where would I start to try to troubleshoot this? Or, is there an alternative to use for web development? quanta now refuses to start, and ties up one core of my CPU completely. I have renamed .kde/share/apps/quanta folder, and
11:19<eldowan>tried to run it as a different user. I would try to purge, and re install, but it wants to remove the kde package. Where would I start to try to troubleshoot this? Or, is there an alternative to use for web development?
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11:22<vortex>eldowan: have you tried just doing: apt-get install quanta --reinstall ?
11:22<eldowan>vortex: ooh, I hadn't even thought of that. Thanks.
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11:24<eldowan>vortex: nope, that didn't do it. it loads, and keeps the splash screen present.
11:24<EmleyMoor>I can't get jabber-pymsn to work any more - it asks me to check logs but isn't logging anything
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11:26<vortex>eldowan: screem is another web development environment
11:27<eldowan>vortex: I'll have to give that a shot. I don't need much, context highlighting, php support. does screem support that?
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11:27<vortex>yup, as far as i know
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11:27[~]fxiny wonders if 1G ram to try ibm free lotus is a big #]@!**!!
11:27<eldowan>good deal. it figures that quanta would go belly up 3 days before the project deadline for this phase... :(
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11:30<eldowan>vortex: looks like it should get me by. I haven't looked through the docs yet, but do you know offhand if screem supports somethink like sftp uploading to the production site after local tesing? I hope I phrased that correctly.
11:31<vortex>eldowan: dunno, sorry.
11:31<eldowan>vortex: Oh well. Good deal. thanks for the help.
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11:34<cybe_>When I plug my earphones into my laptop (with Debian Etch) the laptop's internal speakers doesn't stop - so there sound in both the earphones and the speakers. If I turn off the "External Amplifier" the sound is only in the earphones - but the quality is very poor :( what can be the problem ?
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11:35<fxiny>sound ? a beep ?
11:36<cybe_>Music, or any sound the computer tries to play
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11:38<EmleyMoor>cybe: Are you sure your headphones are in good condition?
11:38<cahoot>cybe_, does this apply?
11:39<eldowan>EmleyMoor: it seems cybe_ is saying that the phones sound good until the external amp it turned off, then the sound goes to the graveyard.
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11:39<EmleyMoor>Yes - but with the sound not cutting off, it could be caused by the connection not being good - some laptops do what he says if that is the case
11:39<cybe_>Yeah EmpleyMoor and eldowan - the sound is fine until it is turned off
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11:40<EmleyMoor>cybe-: It can be... have you tested them on some other device?
11:40<EmleyMoor>(it had me puzzled at first)
11:40<cybe_>EmleyMoor - I tried with different types of headets and external speakers - same problem. And it worked fine in the newest version of Ubuntu (had the same problem in the older versions of Ubuntu)
11:40<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... that's a different problem then.. it sounds like a faulty socket
11:41<cahoot>cybe_, hda-intel?
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11:42<cybe_>cahoot: Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02)
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11:43<cybe_>cahoot: So yeah, hda-intel according to both lspci and Alsa Mixer
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11:44<cahoot>cybe_, then my guess it's a fault of the alsa module
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11:44<cahoot>cybe_, see the url posted above
11:45<cybe_>Okay cahoot, I will try that then :) thanks
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11:58<ubuntunix>Can't install, partitioner crashes after showing message "Device /dev/scsi/host4/bus0/target0/lun0/disc has a logical sector size of 2048. Not all parts of GNU Parted support this.", any ideas?
11:58<cybe_>cahoot: lol, just restarted and seems like I fucked up :b I had the speakers plugged in while installing and restarting.... And know the internal laptop speakers play when I plug in the earphones/speakers, and when I take them out the internal speakers mute -.- the opposite of what I wanted :p
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12:02<cybe_>Argh, can't remember the command to remove everything inside a directory - including subdirs
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12:03<ricky>cybe_: rm -rf *?
12:03<ricky>(Be careful with this, for obvious reasons)
12:03<cybe_>thanks ricky :)
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12:03<cybe_>Yeah, rm -rf / isn't smart :p
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12:08<kreoxie>can some one tell me what i need to do to make it so when i add new files too a public_html dir i don't have to chmod it every time i add a new file
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12:11<aptituz>does somebody know if nvidia-glx is broken in sid currently?
12:11<cybe_>Okay, I messed up :/ I just installed the latest ALSA drivers, and now my internal speakers are mute until I plug something into the audio-out port, then both the earphones and the speakers is playing sound. When I plug it out again the internal speakers become mute again
12:12<Vakio>aptituz: it should be.
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12:13<aptituz>yeah. xorg 7.3, right. i just got the news ;)
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12:13<Vakio>aptituz: but see
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12:14[~]aptituz opens lynx
12:14<aptituz>Vakio: thanks i will look at the page
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12:59<kurumin>what is you!?!!!!
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13:47<ubuntunix>Boot freezes at "Waiting for root file system...", anyone know the problem?
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13:48<david87>hi guys, if I try to run an ia64 netinstall on a 32bit will it immeditaly fail?
13:48<david87>I'm asking as I have no idea if my XEON processor (bought 4 years ago) is 64bit
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13:50<qbit>david87, maybe rd image is horked?
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13:51<simonrvn>maybe that's the wrong netinst... you need amd64 not ia64
13:51<david87>qbit, what do you mean?
13:51<dpkg>it has been said that ia64 is (Intel Architecture-64), a 64-bit processor architecture developed in cooperation by Intel and Hewlett-Packard, implemented by processors such as Itanium and Itanium 2. The goal of Itanium was to produce a "post-RISC era" arch using EPIC. see -- if your CPU is opteron/athlon64/turion/sempron/xeon/em64t/pentium/core2duo/core*, then it is NOT ia64
13:51<simonrvn>david87: you don't have itanium there
13:51<david87>I see. so what netinst should I use?
13:52<david87>for "real" 64bit?
13:52<simonrvn>i just said it
13:52<simonrvn><simonrvn> maybe that's the wrong netinst... you need amd64 not ia64
13:52<david87>even for intel cpus. gotchya.
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13:53<david87>still the old problem though - will netinstall immediatly fail if I don't have 64bit?
13:53<simonrvn>bad naming scheme ...
13:53<simonrvn>you can also go for 32b
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13:54<simonrvn>if this is a server, might as well do 64b, but if a desktop, go for 32b + 64b chroot
13:54<simonrvn>or vice versa
13:54<simonrvn>64b + 32b chroot
13:54<david87>it's a server
13:55<david87>why should I use both?
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13:56<spanther>i have a question please :) what is the name of the package for the XFCE desktop environment? :)
13:57<spanther>gnome and kde was easy but xfce doesnt work for itself :(
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13:57<simonrvn>xfce4-session will pull in a bunch of stuff
13:58<spanther>huh? what do you mean simonrvn ?
13:59<dpkg>*** NEWS FLASH! *** Your box does not come with every app, tool and utility known to debiankind installed already. If you find that the program you've been told to use isn't there, install it. Also ask me about <search>. if someone suggests an application to you, it's highly likely that it's available via apt-get
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14:00<spanther>simonrvn, why did you just dont say that it is the name for the desktop part package :) i know how to install stuff hehe just didnt knew the right one
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14:01<simonrvn>uh, i did
14:02<eldowan>vortex: I was able to fix my quanta. it ends up there was a config file at ~/.kde/share/config/quantarc that was throwing it for a loop. I was able to figure it out by looking at the strace. It worked in another user account, and I figured it out from there. Thanks for the screem suggestion still.
14:02<spanther>okay then i just didnt understand "pull in a bunch of stuff" how you mean it sorry then english isnt my native language :)
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14:04<simonrvn>it isn't mine either
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14:05<david87>simonrvn, been trying to understand what do you mean by 64b + 32bit chroot for server?
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14:05<simonrvn>i didn't say that. re-read what i said
14:06<eldowan>david87: 64bit system, 32bit chroot?
14:06<maxamillion>i appear to be having troubles setting up my kerberos client, after i did the configuration i am now asked for my password twice and it apparently doesn't authenticate against the server
14:06<maxamillion>does anyone have any thoughts?
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14:07<david87>what am I not getting? <simonrvn> 64b + 32b chroot
14:07<simonrvn>if you have pam correctly configured, it could be due to krb5.conf misconfiguration
14:07<simonrvn>david87: .:14:54:18:. <simonrvn> if this is a server, might as well do 64b, but if a desktop, go for 32b + 64b chroot
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14:08<david87>I see. thanks! and for my question again - will amd64 netinst fail on 32bit system?
14:08<jclinton>david87: yes, it will fail
14:09<jclinton>david87: the kernel will not even boot
14:09<Eulex>horribly. in flames and with thunder.
14:09<jclinton>and 1 clown.
14:09<simonrvn>clown? that's a new one
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14:09<simonrvn>does it come with r1 ?
14:09<jclinton>see, no one cares about the flames and thunder.
14:09<qbit>yeah... came out with etch
14:10<david87>thanks guys. you've saved a clown.
14:10<simonrvn>flames and thunder are passe, and tend to be from natural phenomena
14:10<qbit>we do what we can
14:10<Eulex>(and yes, comes with etch)
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14:23<Aciid>Is it ok to ask a quick question at the irc channel?
14:23<Vakio>You already did.
14:24<Aciid>Yea lol, but Ive been lookin for a list of unused daemons/services. I have bittorrent and cups and hp printer support runnin..
14:24<Aciid>is there any complete list?
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14:27<Knorrie>list of services not in use by you? i guess nobody but you can know what services you're using
14:28<Knorrie>commands like `ps afxu` (show processes) and `netstat -an | grep LISTEN` can help to discover what services are running and on what ports they may listen
14:29<Aciid>Knorrie: well the thing is that id like to disable everything but the maincomponents.
14:29<gar>i trying to install xorg and every way i do it keep telling me broken packages im using testing...
14:29<Aciid>so like keepin it simple id like to have a list of required daemons/services
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14:30<Knorrie>ah ok, so you mean sort of a list of 'required' services
14:30<Aciid>yea :)
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14:30<Myon>/sbin/init is required, the rest is basically optional
14:30<Knorrie>well, none actually, besides ssh if you want to connect to the box for management
14:31<Knorrie>network services that is
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14:31<Aciid>Knorrie: yea im using ssh quite a lot even this irssi connection is over on a shell.
14:31<Aciid>but ill see what i can do for this
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14:31<Aciid>thanks for all the tips :)
14:32<Knorrie>a way to get mail to the outside world is also recommended, so you can get cron errors etc
14:32<Knorrie>gar: can you paste output of the error to some pastebin?
14:32|-|xbc [] has joined #debian
14:32<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
14:33<gar>Knorrie what im getting is alot of unmet dependendcies
14:34<gar>every time im trying to install something
14:34<gar>even with the -f dont work
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14:35<Knorrie>gar: is your /etc/apt/sources.list file set up right?
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14:36<gar>i guess so
14:36<gar>i use netselect
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14:38<Aciid>gar: you mean netinstall?
14:38<Knorrie>probably you can show some of the errors, otherwise we have to guess also in helping you :)
14:38<gar>to select faster mirror
14:39<gar>first question
14:39<spanther>yes i want such tool too to find the fastest download mirror for my location :D
14:39<gar>is gnome installed via apt in testing?
14:39<gar>ok i try apt-get install gnome
14:40<gar>and get the following packages have unmet dependencies
14:40<gar>and a huge list E: broken packages
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14:40<Knorrie>gar: did you do 'apt-get update' first?
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14:41<gar>what i did was a netinstall from the minimal boot cd
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14:41<gar>i just finnished downloading the whole cd im gona do another clean install brb
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14:42<Knorrie>well, if your sources.list file points to the right mirrors, apt should be able to find everything
14:43<gar>well i use the netselect-apt and should work ok
14:43<StCyr>anyone having experience on "xenifying" an existing installation? (without debbootstrap)
14:43<gar>like netselect-apt -n testing
14:43<spanther>gar, i installed debian still fine and had no issues at all you did something wrong then i think :)
14:43<gar>but spanther powerpc is a little more complicated :D
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14:44<spanther>lol yeah not my world of architecture okay except of my xbox360 :>
14:44<spanther>hope linux for xbox360 goes out soon hrhr would love it :)
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14:45<spanther>PowerPC Tri-Core 3,2ghz 512mb DDR and harddrive all is there to support linux they just have to crack out this security wall then a kernel will boot x)
14:45<Knorrie>StCyr: like, converting a system to a xen dom0?
14:45|-|streuner [] has joined #debian
14:46<gar>spanther: im using a older powerpc
14:46<StCyr>No, rather converting a system to a xen domU
14:46<Knorrie>StCyr: ah
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14:46<spanther>gar, yep i know i just was dreaming about the future of xbox360 modding :) first one hadnt enough of ram and power but 360 should be awesome with linux :D
14:47<Knorrie>StCyr: well, not really
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14:47<StCyr>but probably my dom0 doesn't work neither: I'm having strange network behavhiour
14:47<petemc>you need to boot in dom0
14:48<gar>spanther does gentoox do a dist for xbox...
14:48<StCyr>ok, I'm coming back in a minute
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14:50<spanther>gar, maybe yes dont know but after all its still not working since microsoft did something stupid they had a security chip inside theyr PowerPC CPU and they burned that out with the new firmware so i cant use the old one anymore and the new one doesnt have that security hole what was booting linux before :(
14:51<spanther>there's no way "actually" to boot linux on it on the new ones
14:51<gar>how about InFeCtuS
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14:51<gar>but thats complicated
14:51<gar>have to solder a chip into the motherboard
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14:52<StCyr>I'm in dom0. I have to restart my network interface to get network
14:52<StCyr>It's like xend is shutting it down
14:53<spanther>so stupid sony opened theyr PS3 for linux and microsoft did such a stupid thing...just think about theyr steps before the contract with novel and other things you really cant believe them anymore they dont know what they say they act different every other time :( first they were against opensource then they supported now they closed it out :(
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14:53<gar>yeah is crazy
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14:54<spanther>gar, i won't solder something inside since i will lose my warranty it was a bit to much money for playing around with the warranty :/
14:54<StCyr>I have lo, vif1.0 and xenbr1 at startup
14:54|-|H [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:54<StCyr>and I have lo, eth1, vif1.0, xenbr1 after "ifup eth1"
14:56<spanther>StCyr, does your network work well after using "ifup eth1" ? :)
14:56<Knorrie>StCyr: probably your eth1 is not set 'auto' in /etc/network/interfaces
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14:57<StCyr>network is working fine.
14:57<spanther>Knorrie, yeah or as other way to fix it he can put it inside the rc list :)
14:57<StCyr>eth1 is auto
14:58<Knorrie>you still have to attach it to the bridge if you want to reach the outside world from a domU
14:58<spanther>StCyr, i dont know the exact list name but there is a list existing in linux where you can put in your commands what should get started at bootup you could put in that ifup command :)
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14:58<Knorrie>it should be handled correctly by the scripts in /etc/init.d
14:59<spanther>init.d that was it :D
14:59<spanther>initializing file
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15:00<spanther>okay hehe
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15:00<StCyr>by "attach it to the bridge" you mean uncommenting the "(network-script 'network-bridge netdev=eth1')" line in /etc/xen/xend-config.sxp?
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15:01<Knorrie>uhm no
15:02<Knorrie>what xen does is attaching vifX to the bridge
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15:02<spanther>Knorrie, just hard for me to know whats a folder and thats a file since linux has mostly no endings in files :) (i'm a beginner)
15:03<StCyr>so I should change something in /etc/network/interfaces?
15:03<ben_goodger>.d will denote a directory
15:03<Knorrie>spanther: when using `ls` to display the contents of a directory, you can use the option -F, which appends a / to directory names
15:03<spanther>StCyr, i dont think so "auto" should be right as mode for eth1
15:03<Knorrie>or use colors in ls output
15:03<spanther>Knorrie, thank you :D
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15:04<Knorrie>spanther: when there are colors, the blue ones are directories
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15:05<spanther>Knorrie, yep but in your /etc/init.d <-- thought it is a file cause no / behind :)
15:05<Knorrie>ah ok:)
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15:05<spanther>yep that was my problem i thought files are at least and they are folders when theres a / behind for marking it as folder tree :)
15:06<spanther>just a bit complicated *g*
15:07<StCyr>my eth1 is dhcp. 'Might be the cause?
15:07<spanther>they should change that so that folders are like "/etc/init.d/" and files "/etc/init.d" :)
15:08<spanther>easier to see then that it is a folder
15:08<Knorrie>spanther: but yes, the file extensions are not that often used as on dos/windows platforms, executable programs don't have to be .exe etc
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15:10<spanther>Knorrie, yes but i thought every file has to have a ending doesnt matter what one but just a ending starting with 1 key like .a or other things but when i could see files without any ending it was hard for me lol :D thought every file has its mark of type at ending hehe
15:10<ben_goodger>nah, UNIX looks at the file
15:11<spanther>yeah but i thought a file without an ending is non-existant *g*
15:11<ben_goodger>windows will quite happily think a virus is a virus if it walks past with a label reading "photograph"
15:11<spanther>like no filetype and so no data in it :)
15:11<spanther>didnt knew there exist files without filetype names who still work
15:11<Knorrie>spanther: you can even rename your kernel to autoexec.bat or and make grub boot it
15:12<Knorrie>files are just a start, an ending and some data in between
15:12<spanther>thought other filetype would change entry inside file itself too :)
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15:12<ben_goodger>though it may cause confusion to those looking at your drive - autoexec.bat.2.6.22 and such
15:12<spanther>cause every sort of filetype has its own format
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15:13<gab>Hi i need help to install debian in Alpha lx 164
15:14<ben_goodger>spanther: if you rename "WinWord.exe" to "WinWord.bmp" does it turn into a photograph of hell when you open it? can you then rename that to "WinWord.png" and have it magically shrink?
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15:14<spanther>Knorrie, yeah but a file without a filetype ending is like a file what has no um how should i explain it mhh....its a file without any description of what sort it is no type name i mean :) so how should linux know then how to run or use it right? :)
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15:15<dondelelcaro>spanther: magick.
15:15<dondelelcaro>libmagic, if you were wondering the specific type of magick involved.
15:15<ben_goodger>well, examining its content is a good start
15:15<spanther>ben_goodger, i know that when you have a text file .txt and rename it in specific way (ending) then rename it back to .txt some keys sometimes are damaged :)
15:15<ben_goodger>er, right
15:16<stew>spanther: what? what keys?
15:16<dondelelcaro>spanther: not in linux, unless you read and save it with something.
15:16<spanther>uh signs like "A" :)
15:16<ben_goodger>linux would look at the file, think "hmm, it's ASCII-encoded text" and conclude "looks like a text file"
15:16<stew>spanther: renaming a file doesn't in any way alter the contents of the file
15:16<spanther>dondelelcaro, i see so thats a windows native only problem *g*
15:16<spanther>stew, yeah but in windows it does :P
15:16<spanther>some files are damaged just by changing the ending there lol
15:17<ben_goodger>or the photo, and think "hmm, it's got a bit of text at the front saying that it's a non-interlaced JPEG" and conclude "I think it's a JPEG..."
15:17<stew>spanther: uhh, we can't help you with that
15:17<spanther>stew, i know just didnt knew about linux that good before (different features) :)
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15:17<dondelelcaro>file endings are meaningless in unix; they're only there to assist the user.
15:17|-|jacob [] has joined #debian
15:17<spanther>in unix yeah *g*
15:17<jacob>how do i install deb files?
15:18<ben_goodger>dpkg -i file
15:18[~]dpkg removes a kidney from ben_goodger and replaces it with file
15:18<spanther>but dont do same in windows it will show you warning "you could destroy data inside it" lol
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15:18<ben_goodger>spanther: no, that's just how it will appear if you try to open an executable in photoshop
15:18<spanther>cool thing that more open unix file handling then :)
15:18<Knorrie>spanther: a system that changes something inside a file when you rename it is dangerous
15:18<ben_goodger>oh dear, dpkg has joined an organ-harvesting cult
15:19<spanther>Knorrie, yeah but thats how windows is really i tried that before
15:19<dondelelcaro>ben_goodger: it had to find somewhere to stick file in you
15:19<Knorrie>dpkg: sell ben_goodger's kidney
15:19<spanther>some filetypes have other format types so when you change the ending you change the data format inside and that could destroy the data too
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15:20<Knorrie>spanther: well, fortunately when renaming a file on linux there's nothing changed inside
15:20<spanther>cause not every ending (filetype) can handle all these sorts of code signs that the original could :)
15:20|-|gab [] has quit []
15:20<Knorrie>actually, you can refer to the same file by multiple names by hardlinking
15:20<spanther>Knorrie, yeah linux :) like i said thats the difference hehe
15:20<Knorrie>touch bla.txt; ln bla.exe bla.txt
15:20<jacob> trouble install deb file, can anybody help?
15:21<spanther>at windows with a file ending you change the whole type so you can damage the whole file lol it reformats the data inside the file in the right way (or tries) lol
15:21<Knorrie>jacob: well it seems to need java, and dpkg doesn't handle dependencies itself
15:22<spanther>like as example when you save a .doc file with wordpad with muslim like lines then save that rename the file into .txt and you'll have data loss :)
15:22<Knorrie>jacob: that's the job of apt-get/aptitude, who use dpkg 'under water'
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15:22<dpkg>methinks z25 is as of version 0.090, udev has the ability to staticly rename ethernet cards based on MAC address. the addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules . If you want the mappings to change, edit that file. if you don't want udev to touch your interface names, remove that file and z45_persistent-net-generator.rules in the same directory
15:22<spanther>.txt filetype cant handle these special keys so they'll get damaged/lost stupid thing at windows :D
15:22<jacob>knorrie, i'm trying to understand what ur telling me. i'm a newbie
15:23<jacob>knorrie what do i need to do to install limewire/java
15:23<Knorrie>jacob: it means dpkg wants to tell you that you need one of the mentioned java packages
15:23<spanther>Knorrie, with .txt to .exe doesnt work since .exe can include nearly everything as keys this filesystem change will have no lose of data :)
15:23<Knorrie>jacob: e.g. aptitude install sun-java6-jre
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15:24<spanther>yeah yeah i played around alot with windows before so i know all its bugs and i am glad that these things/problems/issues arent inside unix like linux :)
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15:25[~]lupine scratches his head
15:25<spanther>the worst windowsXP bug is that when you dont mark a file in your filebrowser (explorer) before and directly rightclick it you'll get 100% cpu load all the time lol no reason for that :D
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15:26<dondelelcaro>windows xp and related non-Debian OSes really aren't on topic here
15:26<lupine>neither is rock solid idiocy ;)
15:26<spanther>i know ^^
15:26<spanther>i'll stop now too :)
15:26<P1R0>hi, i have a problem with the mcedit
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15:27<P1R0>is the backspace
15:27<spanther>what is mcedit :)
15:27<P1R0>don't work
15:27<P1R0>the mcedit the editor of the mc
15:28<spanther>ah you mean editor of midnight commander uh it worked for me what is your problem with it? :)
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15:28<lastnode>hey guys, just wondering if someone could recommend a pcmcia wireless card that will work out of the box with etch/lenny without firmware. (I don't mind installing madwifi or something, but no fw please - sick of it after my inbuilt broadcom).
15:28<P1R0>the backspace doesn't works
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15:30<P1R0> also in vim don't work
15:30<spanther>P1R0, uh here it worked do you use debian stable 4.0r1 and have you setup your keyboard right?
15:30<P1R0>but in nano does work
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15:31<P1R0>don't know were to configure
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15:31<P1R0>but guess the problem is only with this editors
15:31<spanther>uh your keyboard layout has to be the right
15:31<spanther>do you use gnome ?
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15:32<spanther>aah nice :D there it is kcontrol to setup your keyboard
15:32<P1R0>the backspace works
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15:32<P1R0>but in the mcedit or vim doesn't
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15:32<P1R0>in the nano wroks fine
15:32<spanther>weird problem mhh
15:33<P1R0>yes :(
15:33<spanther>mc is a tool inside your terminal normally uh
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15:33<graytron>P1R0: has it worked in vim before?
15:33<P1R0>is it maybe the vi config or somethin'
15:33<P1R0>no :s
15:34<P1R0>only nano
15:34<graytron>P1R0: have you used vim before then?
15:34<spanther>P1R0, try to use gnome-terminal <-- (command for it) then try MC :)
15:35<P1R0>wait :p
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15:35<spanther>i used mc through gnome-terminal and it works fine hehe dont know if it will work but it is worth a try :)
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15:35<P1R0>but seems its in all kind pf terminal
15:35<spanther>tried it?
15:36<P1R0>i, will
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15:36<linuxx>can anyone in here tell me what's the matter with ?
15:36<spanther>i have installed debian but use kde now too funny thing inside KDE i use the gnome terminal its my lovely one :)
15:36<linuxx>bind wont start anymore
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15:37|-|myles [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
15:38<Knorrie>linuxx: any error message from bind?
15:38<Knorrie>in /var/log/syslog probably
15:38<linuxx>im afraid, not. "Starting domain name service...: bind failed!" is all
15:38<geronimo>ist hier jemand der sich mit sidux+netzwerke auskennt?
15:39<linuxx>ah, ill check that
15:39<dpkg>it has been said that de is deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf und - German speaking users please go to (on and freenode)
15:39<Knorrie>linuxx: it's likely that there's an error message in there
15:40|-|P1R0 [~zic@] has joined #debian
15:40<linuxx>yea you're right, thanks :>
15:40<linuxx>misspelled a word :o
15:40<P1R0>ok still the problem at the mc :S
15:40|-|StCyr [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:40<spanther>P1R0, oh noes :((
15:40|-|ohnotagain [] has left #debian []
15:41<spanther>when it works (backspace) inside your desktop environment but not into terminal thats just really weird o.o
15:41<spanther>i dont know the reason then and so i dont know the solution and no way to fix it i am sorry :(
15:41<P1R0>in terminal works
15:41<lupine>not at all. it means the application in question isn't interpreting the control character correctly
15:42<P1R0>but not at the mceditor
15:42|-|grochap [~grochap@] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
15:42<P1R0>and not at the vim or vi editor
15:42<lupine>might be due to it expecting a different terminal type to what you're using, or it might just not support backspace, fullstop
15:42<spanther>P1R0, uh but you really did choose F4 for edit and not F3 for screening ?
15:42<lupine>you might want to check the manpage of the apps in question
15:42|-|dogmeat [] has joined #debian
15:42<Knorrie>just learn vim :P
15:43[~]lupine huggles nano
15:43<spanther>Knorrie, eew vim lol all love vim i dont like it i love mc its a nice blue editor x)
15:43<lupine>also kate
15:43<P1R0>but backspace at vim doesn't work
15:43<P1R0>only at nano
15:43<witte>P1R0: vim is broken by design :P
15:44[~]witte starts flamewar
15:44<P1R0>ok i'll go eat
15:44<spanther>witte, oh nooooes lol
15:44[~]lupine dumps emac^Wgasoline on the flames
15:44<P1R0> i'll try later
15:44<spanther>woah i really love stargate *g* so scary sometimes
15:44<P1R0>is cause i just love mcedit :(
15:45<spanther>P1R0, me either hehe :)
15:45<[XAP]Bob>Hi all - anyone confess to knowing much about mdadm?
15:45<[XAP]Bob>I have a machine which has a pair of raid1 sets of partitions - 50Mb for /boot and 5GB for /
15:45<[XAP]Bob>The machien boots fine, but then can't mount /boot
15:46<spanther>P1R0, mc has a easy terminal fitting design and easy controls to manage copy delete rename and edit files :)
15:46<P1R0>mc rules
15:46<[XAP]Bob># mdadm -E /dev/md0
15:46|-|mikkie [~xxx@] has joined #debian
15:46<[XAP]Bob>mdadm: /dev/md0 is too small for md
15:46<mikkie>i searcbh help
15:47|-|knoppix_ [~knoppix@] has joined #debian
15:47<spanther>P1R0, you should start kcontrol and look what your keyboard layout is :) mines pc105 as example hehe
15:47<mikkie>have HP-printer and want to use it in my network
15:47|-|knoppix_ changed nick to Guest665
15:47<mikkie>but big problems with hplip
15:47<spanther>P1R0, but as question what did you do that mc didnt work anymore ??
15:47<mikkie>my distribution cant handle it
15:48|-|hazard2 [~hazard@] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
15:48<witte>mikkie: which distribution?
15:48<witte>mikkie: what network, which printer, which printer system,...
15:48<mikkie>it is a special for sh4-cpu
15:48<mikkie>network over a router
15:49<mikkie>printer is hp photosmart c3180
15:49<mikkie>system is anetwork-harddisk
15:49|-|Guest665 [~knoppix@] has quit []
15:50<mikkie>before that printer i had a lexmark
15:50<mikkie>via cups
15:50<mikkie>was runnin perfectly
15:50|-|esaym [] has joined #debian
15:50<spanther>i hate lexmark theyr printers die so fast :)
15:50<mikkie>but now with that HP i´ve got a big prob
15:50|-|gab [] has quit []
15:51<witte>mikkie: in that case I think you have to refer to the documentation/manufacturer fo the router
15:51<spanther>so you use your printer through LAN ?
15:51<mikkie>router is set the same it was
15:51<witte>mikkie: yes, but the printer is connected through the router?
15:51<mikkie>it can by only a thing about the drivers of the printer
15:51|-|ab [] has joined #debian
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15:52<witte>mikkie: ok, then look at if your printer is supported
15:52<spanther>witte, thx for let us know about that page *g* *saved*
15:52<mikkie>witte : its connected tru the NAS-drive
15:52<mikkie>witte: NAS is running debian
15:53|-|geronimo [] has left #debian [Leaving]
15:53<mikkie>witte : i´m beginner - cant handle it - could you help?
15:53<mikkie>witte : i am trying now over 2 months
15:54|-|[XAP]Bob [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:54<mikkie>witte : lexmark is maybe not so good but was running quite fast
15:54<spanther>uh whats your printer again?
15:54<witte>mikkie: it is just a matter of getting your printer working
15:54|-|ab [] has left #debian []
15:54|-|P1R0 [~zic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:54<mikkie>HP photosmart c3180
15:55|-|T-Ping [] has joined #debian
15:55<mikkie>i can see it but it does not print
15:55|-|madroach [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:55<spanther>mikkie, yours isnt supported ^^
15:55<witte>should work i guess
15:55|-|gnagsuaton [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:55<spanther>witte, really? :)
15:56<spanther>his one is c3180
15:56<witte>spanther: it will work with the driver of the 3100 i guess, they have normally the same driver for
15:56<witte>more moddels
15:56<lupine>hpijs ftw
15:56<spanther>ah okay :)
15:56<mikkie>just copy that
15:57<witte>mikkie: like lupine told: install the hpijs package
15:57<witte>mikkie: and install the driver by going to http://localhost:631
15:57|-|s0d0 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:58<witte>mikkie: synaptic or apt-get install hpijs
15:58<lupine>hpijs and hpijs-ppds are required
15:58<lupine>possibly some other -ppds files
15:58<spanther>witte, thought at first they have tested these type they have listed and others wouldnt be compatible but when they are similiar then thats cool didnt know about it before :)
15:58|-|disposable [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:59|-|mode/#debian [+l 331] by debhelper
15:59<witte>spanther: all these printers (and hence printer drivers) are more or less the same
15:59<witte>spanther: hp does not want to write a lot of drivers ;-)
15:59|-|buzztracker [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:00|-|buzztracker [] has joined #debian
16:00<spanther>witte, i didnt knew that :P
16:00|-|snoop [] has joined #debian
16:00<spanther>at lexmark similiar ones never worked lol so i wasnt so sure :)
16:00<lupine>Lexmark printers have crap linux support, in general
16:00<spanther>it was windows time (age of 15 *g*)
16:00<witte>spanther: I am not sure it will work, but the chances are qsuite goed
16:01|-|padski [] has joined #debian
16:01<spanther>hope so for him :)
16:01<lupine>s/have/are/ & s/linux support//
16:01<witte>s/qsuite goed/quite good/
16:01<mikkie>try too find how tu install
16:02<spanther>but now since i know that printer list i know where to look what model i can buy :D
16:02|-|valdyn_ [] has joined #debian
16:02<lupine>joe random HP printer is almost guaranteed to work
16:03<padski>I have most of an etch->lenny upgrade to complete, and very little disk pace in which to do it. I am selecting it bits at a time in dselect. is there a better way ?
16:03|-|Zylvain [] has joined #debian
16:03<mikkie>what is that foomatic?
16:03<lupine>padski: make more free space? ;)
16:03<padski>lupine: lol
16:03<spanther>lupine, i dont trust guarantees *fg* i only trust truths so i only buy a model what is inside there :D
16:04|-|valdyn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04|-|valdyn_ changed nick to valdyn
16:04<mikkie>lupine : what is that foomatic?
16:04|-|lastnode [~lastnode@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:04<dpkg>it has been said that foomatic is a printing system designed to make it easier to set up common printers for use with Debian (and other operating systems). See for details.
16:04<lupine>padski: or maybe there's a -o that disables caching
16:05<mikkie>eine Testseite wurde gesendet; Auftrags ID ist bla-5.
16:05<mikkie>but nothing happens
16:05|-|phoohb [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:05|-|samgee [] has quit [Quit: samgee]
16:05<witte>mikkie: you could try to restart cups
16:06|-|helmut [] has left #debian []
16:06<witte>mikkie: /etc/init.d/cupsys restart
16:06<witte>mikkie: as root
16:06|-|Roll [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:07<spanther>what i love at linux (a hate love) that when i want to do things they are mostly harder like on commercial OS (no name named here) but after all its mostly a better success and never randomly senseless errors :)
16:08<spanther>linux is more proven and developed hehe
16:08<lupine>funny. Everything I try to do works perfectly first time with no issues
16:09|-|gab [] has joined #debian
16:09<spanther>cause there work much more intelligent brains at linux as hobby or commercial way than in that little factory out of redmond *g* linux has a very big development group :)
16:09<gab>in going insane
16:09|-|gab [] has left #debian []
16:10|-|gab [] has joined #debian
16:10<witte>gab: who isn't
16:10|-|burnmanp [] has joined #debian
16:10<spanther>gab, welcome back :)
16:10<gab>need help with debian on alpha!!!
16:10<gab>ha, thanx
16:10<gab>A.2.3. Booting from hard disk
16:11<gab>that's from the manual
16:11|-|burnmanp [] has left #debian []
16:11<gab>can't do it
16:11<gab>it's impossible
16:11<gab>sorry, the next line is long
16:11<gab>It's possible to boot the installer using no removable media, but just an existing hard disk, which can have a different OS on it. Download hd-media/initrd.gz, hd-media/vmlinuz, and a Debian CD image to the top-level directory of the hard disk. Make sure that the CD image has a filename ending in .iso. Now it's just a matter of booting linux with the initrd.
16:12|-|tweakt_ [] has joined #debian
16:12<ben_goodger>works quite well with a USB stick, I find
16:12<padski>on an alpha ?
16:12<gab>I have no USB nor CD nor net acces on the alpha machine
16:12<ben_goodger>well, no
16:12<ben_goodger>but the procedure is identical
16:12|-|beelzebul [] has joined #debian
16:12<lupine>woah, that's limiting
16:12<gab>i have the .iso on another hd
16:13<gab>i want to install on an empty hd
16:13<spanther>gab, what is an alpha machine? :)
16:13<gab>SCSI both
16:13<lupine>alpha is a CPU architecture
16:13<spanther>no special designed machines ? only cpu ?
16:13<mikkie>Standort: uzi
16:13<mikkie>Gerätestatus: gelangweilt, Nimmt Aufträge entgegen.
16:13<mikkie>Geräte URI: usb://Q8160B?serial=MY733D717H04P9
16:13|-|mikkie kicked [#debian] debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
16:13|-|jae_ [] has joined #debian
16:13|-|mikkie [~xxx@] has joined #debian
16:13<mikkie>Standort: uzi
16:13<mikkie>Gerätestatus: gelangweilt, Nimmt Aufträge entgegen.
16:13<mikkie>Geräte URI: usb://Q8160B?serial=MY733D717H04P9
16:13|-|mikkie kicked [#debian] debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
16:13|-|mikkie [~xxx@] has joined #debian
16:13<spanther>spam lol
16:13<lupine>well, it's generally proprietary, I guess
16:13<dpkg>Please do not paste anything at all to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
16:14<mikkie>have you seen it?
16:14<lupine>mikkie: you fail
16:14<gab>sorry for the paste
16:14<lupine>also, is that german?
16:14|-|beelzebul [] has quit []
16:14<spanther>mikkie, its not nice to past into a channel where others want to talk or get help too :)
16:14<gab>anyone know how to do that?
16:14|-|snoop [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
16:14<mikkie>yeah , you right
16:14<lupine>gab: what's your current bootloader?
16:15<gab>no idea, haha!
16:15<gab>i'm really new to linux
16:15<spanther>gab, lol now i know how you feel *g*
16:15<mikkie>lupine . why failed?
16:15<lupine>you need to get the bootloader to run the vmlinuz rather than your alpha bootstrap code
16:15|-|moicano [~debian@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:15|-|jae [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:15<gab>i know!!
16:15<gab>but i can't
16:15<lupine>because you pasted to a no-paste channel, and it was in the wrong language beside
16:15<dpkg>"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." - Terry Pratchett, Eric
16:15<spanther>mikkie, just a phrase someone says when there happens something annoying :)
16:16<gab>there's a lot of options to fill on the alpha loader
16:16<Myon>gab: any reason you didn't like my help on #help?
16:16[~]Myon shakes head
16:16<gab>hello Myon!
16:16<gab>couldn't do what you told me to!
16:16<spanther>gab, :p hard to be a newbie right? *g*
16:17|-|tweakt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:17<Myon>I think it might help saying what your problem is
16:17<spanther>gab, dont give up linux is really cool dont miss it you'll hate yourself later if you throw it away unused :)
16:17<gab>and i dont' want to trash the nachine yet
16:17<lupine>gab: see
16:17|-|ernesto [~ernesto@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:17<Myon>I told you to plug in an ethernet cable and then you disappeared
16:18|-|visik7 [] has joined #debian
16:18<gab>but i need to exit to plug the cable to the other machine
16:18<spanther>when you've learned alot about linux you'll see it turns easier to do things and a hind to you better start making a notice book for commands with comments from yourself so you can learn faster and you have a booklet for later :)
16:18<lupine>mikkie: it's also extremely bad manners to /msg people
16:18<gab>and then i won't be able to connect because i don't know how!
16:18<lupine>especially in a language they don't understand
16:18<Myon>22:35 <Myon> man interfaces
16:19<mikkie>lupine private
16:19<gab>haha! i have no idea what you are saying
16:19<lupine>gab: by the looks of it, alpha + hard drive isn't documented
16:19<mikkie>so how can i tell you whats on my screen?
16:19<dpkg>well, hth is Hope This Helps
16:19<mikkie>lupine : so how can i tell you whats on my screen?
16:20<gass>odbc-postgresql does not automatically register the postgresql odbc driver to odbcinst.ini
16:20|-|flamma [] has joined #debian
16:20<gab>ok then, what's man interfaces?
16:20<witte>!tell mikkie about pastebin
16:20|-|Pazzo [] has quit [Quit: ...]
16:20<lupine>mikkie: you don't tell me, because I can't help you
16:20<lupine>you tell the room in general, and someone might help if they can
16:20<lupine>gab: looks like you need aboot in addition to that bootstrap kernel and initrd
16:20<stew>gab: the command that will get you the manual for the 'interfaces' file which is where the network settings are configured
16:21<lupine>you then run aboot from the SRM console, whatever that is
16:21<witte>mikkie: you could also go to the german debian channel where they will have less trouble with the errors
16:21<lupine>once you've worked out the procedure, it'd be lovely if you could document it for future alpha users
16:21<gab>i'm pretty sure i have an ARC console...
16:21<witte>!tell mikkie about de
16:21<lupine>well, with the ARC console then :)
16:21|-|spanther [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:21<gab>ok, what's aboot?
16:22<lupine>ho hum; "Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 only supports booting on SRM-based systems."
16:22|-|spanther_ [] has joined #debian
16:22<gab>we have MILO
16:22|-|mikkie [~xxx@] has quit []
16:22<gab>is it the same?
16:22|-|beelzebul [] has joined #debian
16:22<spanther_>okay now i am back with irssi...woah i start to hate xchat..
16:22<lupine>I really don't know. If you read the link I gave you, You'll know more about all this than me
16:22<spanther_>and no i do not love irssi lol but its a good terminal solution without lag issues :)
16:23|-|rubedo [] has joined #debian
16:23<petemc>whats not to love?
16:23<spanther_>somebody knows the command inside irssi to disable text colors?
16:24<stew>spanther_: /set colors off
16:24<spanther_>petemc: uh irssi isnt graphical like xchat but thats not my problem i do like chat clients where i have user list all the time so that i dont feel alone myself :)
16:24<gab>is there ANY way to "start" an .iso file from Debian 2.1???
16:24<stew>as it turns out, irc isn't graphical anyway
16:24<spanther_>stew: thank you very much :) will that stay now at next start of irssi?
16:24<stew>spanther_: not unless you /save
16:24<spanther_>i did *g* youre a god lol thx
16:25<stew>gab: what do you mean by start?
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16:26<gab>run, what it wolud do if I colud start it from the CD (wich i can't)
16:26|-|juliank [] has joined #debian
16:26<gab>i will change the firmware
16:27<lupine>if you already have Debian installed, you can just dist-upgrade it
16:28|-|varka [] has quit []
16:28<lupine>well, I say "just", it could be a bit of an epic journey
16:30|-|Xidus [] has quit []
16:30<spanther_>anyone know a ressource site for epic or just landscape widescreen wallpapers (1280x800) high res? :)
16:30|-|spanther_ changed nick to spanther
16:31|-|beelzebul [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
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16:33<gar>what the command to confg dhtcp network...
16:34|-|Snapser [] has joined #debian
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16:34<mikkie>didnt work the german server
16:34<mikkie>im back
16:34<mikkie>problem is the same
16:35<spanther>mikkie: german server?
16:35<spanther>you mean german channel :)
16:35<spanther>just join german channel hehe
16:35<mikkie>no I cant get on the irc server
16:35<Xidus>Does anyone have much experience with the xfs filesystem used by irix?
16:35<spanther>mikkie: youre still on it
16:35|-|spanther [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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16:36<spanther>ah whats the command in irssi to close a window
16:36<mikkie>someone send me as server
16:37<spanther>to leave a chat room i mean
16:37<Xidus>its /leave
16:37<Xidus>i believe...
16:37<spanther>Xidus: that was the right thank you :)
16:37<Myon>or /part
16:38|-|nosbig [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:38<spanther>lol i make myself a help file where i save all commands i hear :>
16:38<spanther>collecting them for later use *g*
16:38<Myon>try /help
16:39<spanther>part isnt inside :D
16:39<spanther>oh wait it is lol
16:39<spanther>but leave isnt hehe
16:40<Xidus>so, anyone familier with the annoyances of xfs.. worst filesystem ever?
16:40<spanther>leave works as command but its not inside help of irssi maybe someone has to change that in the next irssi release :)
16:41<Xidus>well... you dont really need both part and leave in the help file
16:41|-|beyka [] has joined #debian
16:42<spanther>yeah but as available command others could know it then and decide what one to use :)
16:43<Xidus>pretty sure they both do the exact same thing... but thats a guess
16:44<spanther>yeah they do hehe but so all know that both exist otherwise they should remove leave as hidden command when its not listed and only let part stay :) i know dont hear at me i am just a bit weird sometimes try to do everything perfect how i can do *g*
16:44<spanther>dislike unclean things like that :p
16:45<rubedo>hi! I receive a strange message when i launch 'su root': configuration error: unknown object <<FAIL_DELAY>>.... and so on, all the objects unknown are also QUOTAS_ENAB, NOLOGIN_STR, ENV_HZ, PASS_MAX_LEN, CHFN_AUTH and CLOSE_SESSION. what's up?
16:45<Xidus>probably just a legacy thing, previously used command people dont want to stop using :)
16:46<spanther>Xidus: or that just my own oppinion dont have to be others too hehe but for me i think all usable commands should be listed :)
16:46|-|padski [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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16:47<beyka>hi. sorry for my English! Where can i get source.list for my Debian?
16:48<spanther>Xidus: but by sense i prefer leave before part since join and leave are opposites and make sense :)
16:48|-|mikkie [~xxx@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:48<Jasons>!tell beyka about mirrors
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16:53<beyka>thank's to all for help. bye
16:53|-|beyka [] has left #debian []
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16:54<Tagnard>I have a question. How do i make a tunnel thrue SSH from 1 debian machine to another?
16:55<lupine>the -L switch, IIRC
16:55|-|rubedo [] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
16:55<crozz|work>Anyone that can give me a hand.....have visualize B2000 and just installed Debian net, But (EE) open /dev/fb0 (EE) No such device
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16:57<crozz|work>tried to change to "mga" "vesa" in xorg.conf bust the same
16:58<crozz|work>I am a total newbie
16:59|-|mode/#debian [+l 322] by debhelper
16:59<Eulex>disable mode-setting by using the framebuffer. don't remember the exact name of that option, but it should be there. it does more harm than good.
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17:00<crozz|work>ops....where is that
17:01<crozz|work>tnx I´ll check it right away
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17:10<crozz|work>how to install xserv-org
17:10<crozz|work>from promt
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17:13<stew>crozz|work: aptitude install xorg
17:13<stew>i assume that's what you mean by "xserv-org"
17:14<crozz|work>sytem reported that xserver-org is not installed
17:14<stew>crozz|work: yeah, there is no such pacakges, there is an xserver-xorg, but if you want that instaalled you probably just want to "aptitude install xorg"
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17:15<crozz|work>i´ll try tnx
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17:19<crozz|work>the command went well.....but still alot of errors.....while trying to start startx, first "no screen found"
17:20<crozz|work>(EE) open /dev/fb0 (EE) No such device
17:22<amp>try 'dpkg-reconfigure' xserver-xorg
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17:23<amp>sorry, meant 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'
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17:24<dpkg>To reconfigure your X server, run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg as root. If you're not using Xorg (sarge or earlier), dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86, and ask me about <xmd5sum> if you've changed XF86Config-4 yourself.
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17:29|-|mode/#debian [+l 315] by debhelper
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17:30<crozz|work>should it be "sudo" infront off all commands ?.....otal newbie
17:30<spanther>help :)
17:31<spanther>the photo manager named F-Spot hows the package manager name for it?
17:31|-|{CirdaN} [] has left #debian [Saliendo]
17:32<p0six>I'm looking for a simple console client (ncurses based or otherwise) for changing ip information, is anything like that included in Debian?
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17:34<crozz|work>Which one should I take as dispaly driver for Integrated HP visualize fxe
17:35|-|Alinux [] has joined #debian
17:36<crozz|work>it could not be identyfied automaticly......just got alot choices now......
17:36<jclinton>crozz|work: sounds like it might be an intel graphics
17:36<jclinton>crozz|work: what does lspci say?
17:37<crozz|work>hmmm---check that in a moment....just have to take one and see what happens
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17:40<litage|w>p0six: !!
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17:43<p0six>any suggestions?
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17:44<crozz|work><jclinton> it says hp visualize fxe
17:44<crozz|work>3d alos
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17:45<baotiangosu>je suis le bras de la justice
17:46<amphi>baotiangosu: toi aussi? quelle dommage
17:46|-|MrNaz [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:47<spanther>cool o.o
17:47<baotiangosu>pourquoi dommage ? plus on est de bras de la justice..
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17:48<amphi>!tell baotiangosu about fr
17:48<spanther>france guys here :D nice
17:49|-|dennis [~dennis@] has joined #debian
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17:50<ben_goodger_>what exactly is u{n|ne} "bra"?
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17:51<baotiangosu>j'ai pris une grande decision, j'ai decider de me droguer, de boire de l'alcool fort et de conduire sans permis et sans mes vetement
17:51<stew>baotiangosu: english only in here
17:51<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez aller aux canaux #debian-fr sur ou French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on or
17:51<stew>ben_goodger_: or should i say "brako"
17:51<baotiangosu>i don't understand
17:52<amphi>baotiangosu: good idea - but what has that to do with debian?
17:52<baotiangosu>i cant speak english
17:52<stew>baotiangosu: then /join #debian-fr
17:52<baotiangosu>je sais pas
17:52<ben_goodger_>stew: my esperanto isn't actually that wonderful
17:53<ben_goodger_>...however, my esperanto dictionary is quite good
17:53<spanther>baotiangosu: va au secteur #debian-fr
17:53<ben_goodger_>oh, I see
17:54<spanther>ceux peuvent aider ^^
17:54|-|gravity [] has joined #debian
17:54<ben_goodger_>right, let's return to solid dependable english
17:55<spanther>i just said to him that he should join debian france and that they could help him
17:55<ben_goodger_>or at least mildly firm and depended-upon english
17:55|-|zjason [] has joined #debian
17:55<ben_goodger_>yeah, I got that bit
17:55<ben_goodger_>I did GCSE French :P
17:56<spanther>i did use google speech tools *g*
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17:56<spanther>translateur de la france lol xD
17:56<ben_goodger_>oh, that stuff's abysmal for everything except the non-latin ones
17:56<spanther>abysmal ?? whats that :)
17:57|-|PowerUser [] has quit []
17:57<spanther> never heard that word before sry
17:57<ben_goodger_>horrible, awful, malbonega...
17:57<spanther>horrible and awful i know *g*
17:58<ben_goodger_>very well
17:58<jclinton>ie. having the properties of an abyss
17:58<spanther>so dont use words humans dont know :D XD
17:58<jclinton>dark void
17:58<crozz|work>tnx <jclinton> i read it tmw need my buty sleep......thanksalot
17:58<spanther>jclinton: i still dont know what is an abyss *g*
17:58<jclinton>crozz|work: "beauty"
17:59<ben_goodger_>spanther: a huge hole in the ground, often between two mountains
17:59<jclinton>spanther: an expansive void of darkness and nothingness
17:59<jclinton>crozz|work: welcome
17:59<crozz|work>yeah yeah whatever you tired
17:59<jclinton>crozz|work: g'night
17:59<spanther>i see so its something scary o.o
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17:59<jclinton>spanther: yes
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18:00<spanther>abyss i've heard before but abysmal i never heard before :>
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18:00<spanther>slang hrr *g*
18:00<ben_goodger_>"abysmal" doesn't mean frightening, just really really really really bad
18:01<ben_goodger_>any other words you want to know?
18:02<ben_goodger_>stuff like "unconscionable" or "calamatous" or "incorroborable" I can do
18:02<spanther>oh my god what for words :)
18:03<spanther>no i won't know about them or learn them *g*
18:03<ben_goodger_>there are far too many of them
18:03<spanther>i am happy with my stupid basic english lol :)
18:03|-|gar [] has quit []
18:04<ben_goodger_>yet you live in the UK
18:05<ben_goodger_>your IP says "london"..
18:05|-|nvz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:05<spanther>lol nice xD
18:05<spanther>then it works how i want it to work ;)
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18:07<ben_goodger_>very well
18:07<spanther>for real i can say i am from germany and my ISP too :)
18:07<ben_goodger_>well, in that case I am happy with my stupid basic deutsche
18:08<ben_goodger_>or is the E for plurals?
18:08<spanther>yeah lol
18:08<spanther>deutsche = germans :>
18:08<ben_goodger_>thought it might be
18:08<spanther>sounds funny :)
18:09|-|mode/#debian [+l 307] by debhelper
18:09<ben_goodger_>english is a lot more finicky
18:09<spanther>where are you from?
18:09|-|widrone [] has joined #debian
18:09<ben_goodger_>I'm from the UK
18:09<spanther>oh well then hello neighbour :>
18:09<ben_goodger_>though I would quite like to move to sweden
18:09<spanther>hows the isle? ;)
18:10<ben_goodger_>the isle is small, damp and cold as usual
18:10<spanther>thats what i love hrrr i love it cold :)
18:10<ben_goodger_>not this kind of cold
18:10<ben_goodger_>it's more sort of warm
18:11<ben_goodger_>but really uncomfortably
18:11<spanther>since i hate it to sweating i love it cold x)
18:11|-|abrotman [] has joined #debian
18:11<ben_goodger_>we get sticky hotness and damp coldness
18:11<spanther>i see
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18:11<spanther>mh my goal is to reach japan someday :)
18:12<Knorrie>germany and uk?
18:12[~]Knorrie is inbetween
18:12<Knorrie>so don't shoot the rockets
18:12<spanther>Knorrie: cool now we build a line of linux lovers :>
18:12<ben_goodger_>er, salut?
18:12<spanther>what? rockets?
18:13<Knorrie>spanther: i guess there are lots of them here
18:13<spanther>oh my god i hate war lol bad joke :p
18:13<ben_goodger_>yes it was
18:13[~]ben_goodger_ dispatches small nuke to france
18:13<Knorrie>missile launcher
18:13|-|ben_goodger_ changed nick to ben_goodger
18:13<spanther>Knorrie: so where are you from :)
18:14<Knorrie>you know delft blue blah blah
18:14<spanther>nope *g*
18:14<ben_goodger>never heard of it
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18:14<Golfgeo>Hi all
18:15<Knorrie>omg like this sort of crap
18:15<Golfgeo>Is there a way to check what packages I've got installed from the commandline? (Need a list to verify what packages I've got installed)
18:15<Knorrie>tons of busses of japanese tourists
18:15<ben_goodger>oh, holland
18:15<ben_goodger>Golfgeo: dpkg -L
18:15<Knorrie>Golfgeo: dpkg -l
18:16<Knorrie>lowercase l
18:16<ben_goodger>yeah, yeah
18:16<Knorrie>yes holland
18:16<spanther>Knorrie: lol i love tourists :D
18:16<spanther>dont be that mean :)
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18:16<ben_goodger>I hate them
18:17<ben_goodger>and my entire county's economy is based on them
18:17<spanther>japanese people only have a few days per year for holydays so you should let them enjoy these days :)
18:17<Golfgeo>Thanks mates :-)
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18:17<ben_goodger>they come down for the slightly improved weather and clog up our crappy roads and our crappy hospital
18:18<ben_goodger>with their caravans...
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18:18<spanther>caravans lol xDD
18:18<ben_goodger>awful things
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18:18<ben_goodger>they can't do above 40km/h, they just sit there
18:19<spanther>damn i would be so happy about them x) never saw asian tourists before but i really love it to talk with them x) i am a big fan of asian humans :)
18:19<ben_goodger>I'm talking about the british
18:19<spanther>yup :)
18:19<Knorrie>those japanses folks are always walking in the middle of the road looking upwards to the buildings taking photographs, just when i want to pass in my car or on bycicle
18:19<spanther>japanese ^^
18:19<ben_goodger>I live in cornwall, which is the southwesterly bit
18:20<ben_goodger>I too have a car and bicycle, but I can't drive my car on public roads
18:20<spanther>they make so much photos cause they only have that few time so they want to get as much they can and store all expressions for later :)
18:21<ben_goodger>no doubt
18:21<ben_goodger>I have never seen one
18:21|-|dvs [] has joined #debian
18:21<Knorrie>never saw a public road?
18:21<ben_goodger>no, japanese tourists
18:21|-|flamma [] has joined #debian
18:21<ben_goodger>we just get other english people, from the bits of britain that are even more damp and cold
18:21[~]Knorrie has been to england a few times
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18:22<spanther>oh btw i looove anime :)
18:22<ben_goodger>and I can't drive my car on a public road because I'm not licensed and the car is a complete wreck
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18:22<Knorrie>with my parents in 1996, with highschool in '98 and with a friend in '04
18:22<spanther>i am happy that linux with its ext3 filesystem doesnt lose all my pictures like windows before what had a big loss often times :( picture per picture was damaged over some time
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18:23<ben_goodger>which bit? don't say london, for god's sake don't say london...
18:23<ben_goodger>spanther: windows uses the best that 1992 has to offer, while ext3 is competently designed
18:23<Knorrie>brookland :)
18:24<Knorrie>yeah and london of course
18:24<spanther>ben_goodger: 1992 ??? lool i thought 2001 oh my god lol
18:24<spanther>yeah but its filesystem has so much data crashs :(
18:24<ben_goodger>don't be silly
18:24<ben_goodger>NTFS came along with NT3, which coincided with Win3.11
18:25<Knorrie>ntfs in nt3?
18:25<spanther>time goes and picture per picture goes damaged inside one folder of mine after a half year more than 10% of the pictures were damaged so that they couldnt show a preview picture anymore and i couldnt open them anymore :(
18:25<spanther>since i found that out i really started to hate windows for it...
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18:25<Knorrie>spanther: just change file extensino
18:25<dendrite>When using dh_* to build a package, e.g., ./debian/rules, is it customary to invoke various actions just by calling rules with a make target for its argument, e.g., "debian/rules binary", or "debian/rules clean" ? Or, is there another "better" way?
18:26<spanther>ben_goodger: yeah but there are different versions of NTFS hehe :)
18:26<spanther>Knorrie: what do you mean? when a picture is damaged its lost hehe ^^"
18:27<ben_goodger>you were blathering about file extensions earlier, if I remember correctly...
18:27<spanther>yeah but that was another point :)
18:27<Knorrie>and about altering files when extension changes
18:27<spanther>now i was talking about pictures who get damaged over time without any reason at NTFS systems
18:28<ben_goodger>that's filesystem corruption
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18:28<ben_goodger>linux filesystems write down everything they're going to do, and then do it - and if they're interrupted they just refer back to the log and do it again
18:28<spanther>never happened with ext3 here now i use it since 5 months but at my windows comp it happened often times :(
18:28<ben_goodger>called journalling
18:29<spanther>journalizing ?
18:29<ben_goodger>the log is called a "journal" (bloody americans), the filesystem "journals", it's called "journalling"
18:30<spanther>i am just glad that i dont get these filesystem corruption
18:30<spanther>this* with debian :)
18:30[~]Knorrie is glad to hear that
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18:31<ben_goodger>don't forget the fragmentation and caching
18:32<spanther>with windows98 i didnt have such problems (fat32) then XP first i thought XP was good but when my picture folders growd i found out that some of these got damaged after some time they werent readable anymore without any reason that made me so angry then i tried linux and had no such problems anymore :D
18:32<spanther>ben_goodger: fragmentation and caching?
18:32<ben_goodger>strange. NTFS was meant to be much better than FAT32
18:32<spanther>i prefer Fat32 by all means
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18:32<Knorrie>yes better in handling long filenames
18:32<spanther>yup :)
18:33<ben_goodger>spanther: windows filesystems split their files up into "fragments" and distribute them randomly about the disk, which makes it slower to read a file
18:33<spanther>and some of my pictures had very long ones lol
18:33<Knorrie>without using up lots of 8.3 filename fields to store the long names
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18:33<spanther>ben_goodger: ah yes thats right now i understand you were talking about windows :)
18:33<ben_goodger>and as far as I know, windows doesn't keep the most commonly used files in memory
18:33<ben_goodger>linux does
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18:34<spanther>mh as long it doesnt stress my harddrive much more i can handle it :)
18:34<ben_goodger>it doesn't involve your hard drive, that's the point
18:35<Knorrie>using ram as disk-cache... don't be surprised by numbers when issuing commands like `free`
18:35<spanther>but why doesn't linux need defragmentation?
18:35<ben_goodger>your hard drive is a slow creaky piece of rubbish, which is why it's much faster to keep 300MB or so of it in RAM
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18:35<ben_goodger>spanther: because the fragments are always sensibly organised and/or tidied up by ext3 and its colleagues
18:35<spanther>ben_goodger: yep i know about ram caching glad to hear it doesnt use that much harddrive caching ram caching is okay but harddrive caching could stress the drive :)
18:37<spanther>ben_goodger: and they dont need to re-organized by alphabetical order after some write and delete actions? or whats with the free places (after deleting files) who are on the harddrive later isnt that unused place?
18:38<ben_goodger>reorganising it by alphabetical order? what?
18:39<ben_goodger>I don't think my windows systems have ever lasted that long
18:39<ben_goodger>they tend to be erased after about three months
18:39<spanther>uh defragmentation at windows not only brings files together it closes unused holes when you save and delete stuff
18:39<ben_goodger>yes it does
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18:40<spanther>yes but at linux there does no defragmentation exist so how does it use the "then" turned free space when you delete files?
18:40<ben_goodger>it sorts it all out quite tidily
18:40<Knorrie>store files that fit there
18:41<spanther>Knorrie: aah i see :)
18:41<simonrvn>no need for defrag in 99% of cases
18:41<ben_goodger>simonrvn: can you even do it?
18:41<Knorrie>dont put data at the first open spot
18:41<simonrvn>some fses can, some can't
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18:42<spanther>when linux put new files with fitting same size in the holes then its cool :)
18:42<ben_goodger>ho hume
18:42<simonrvn>spanther: o_O
18:42<spanther>but i would like to clean up and optimize my filesystem after some months too hehe
18:42<Knorrie>fragmentation will become more of an issue on a nearly filled partitino
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18:43<ben_goodger>but debian appears to require 5.8GiB of space no matter how much software I have installed :)
18:43<ben_goodger>it makes partitioning quite pleasant
18:44<Knorrie>an average debian installation i commonly start with does not require more than some 100 or 200 MiB
18:44<ben_goodger>3.6GB, sorry.
18:44<spanther>are there good tools out who sort the files and move them to better places to optimize it? cause it wouldnt be that good when later my whole picture galery were sprayed above the whole harddrive so that it has to work like hell to load all these thumbnails :)
18:45<spanther>i just would love to clean up the big amount of data sometimes after big changes
18:45<Knorrie>spanther: just sit back and relax, you don't have to
18:45<ben_goodger>no filesystem will store stuff in directory order
18:45<ben_goodger>"clean up"?
18:46<Knorrie>spanther: and enjoy your pics instead of worrying about disks
18:46<spanther>ben_goodger: uh yeah look when i put some pictures in a folder then i install some applications into the same one then this application uses space too later when drive turns nearly full i put some other pictures into that folder and then there are pictures on the first parts of my harddrive and on the later parts so its much sprayed around not organized :)
18:47<Knorrie>any file can be put anywhere on disk
18:47<ben_goodger>you're blathering
18:48<ben_goodger>there are four decades' worth of code in place, specifically so you don't have to think about this sort of thing
18:48<Knorrie>spanther: some stupid m$ salesman introduced 'folders' like files are stuck together
18:48<spanther>yes but then the read head from harddrive has to go forward and back so often to get all these pictures loaded when i open a picture folder that it can show all thumbnails
18:48<ben_goodger>just let it do its job, and you can do yours
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18:50<spanther>ben_goodger: what i wanted to say uh when you have 3 files and you delete the middle one from these 3 then there stays a free space and without re organizing this space doesnt get filled the 3rd file would have to get moved that it comes directly after the 1st :)
18:50<Knorrie>spanther: just trust the developers filesystem has found out some clever way to do that because otherwise not only your thumbnails but every operation would suck
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18:51<Knorrie>spanther: there is no guarantee that files are stored that way, the data can be anywhere
18:51<dendrite>spanther: Defragging is much less of an issue under Linux than it is under certain other systems. Remember, Linux is multi-user, and is commonly doing lots of other things besides loading your porn.
18:52<spanther>dendrite: i dont mean fragmentation or doing defragmentations itself i mean um holes what occur while you store data and remove some of it later again ^^
18:52<spanther>it starts to get unclean later then isnt that true? :/ i mean when there are holes everywhere without data
18:52<Knorrie>that happens all the time
18:52<dendrite>spanther: That IS the DEFINITION of file fragmentation. Well, that plus when files change size...
18:53<spanther>dendrite: lol how can you know what i have on my computer :P
18:53<dendrite>spanther: And it's not worth worrying about. But, if you don't believe us, go search the web for "Linux defrag" or some such.
18:53<dendrite>spanther: Good guess. =)
18:53<Knorrie>'holes' are different from 'fragmentated' files
18:53<dondelelcaro>there's really no point in worrying about fragmentation
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18:53<dendrite>Knorrie: True, until the next file comes along and is laid partially in the hole...
18:54<spanther>dendrite: i am not about to say somebody lie here you just got me wrong i just want to know how it works :) i mean the filesystem how it stores and holds all files in place and order
18:54<Knorrie>dendrite: at that moment the fs driver should be smarter than that
18:54<dondelelcaro>unless the filesystem sucks or you're constantly running at near capacity, there's no point in worrying about it
18:54<dendrite>Knorrie: Precisely.
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18:55<dendrite>spanther: Learning how file systems work is a very worthy goal, but odds are you won't really learn much about it on IRC. I suggest some quality time with the source...
18:55<ben_goodger>unfortunately, ntfs/fat are _not_ that clever.
18:55|-|chealer [~chealer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:55<dendrite>ben_goodger: Unfortunately for you, maybe =)
18:55<ben_goodger>it doesn't matter
18:55<spanther>dendrite: i think that would turn out very hard for me to understand :)
18:56<Knorrie>spanther: you can do some research by examinig what sorts of filesystems exist and what sort of anti-fragmentation they have
18:56<ben_goodger>windows will never be on this computer ever again
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18:56<dendrite>spanther: Well, perhaps, but on the other hand, you might surprise yourself if you really apply yourself.
18:57<Knorrie>spanther: i guess there are lots of docs (well, lots of them about oss filesystems) available
18:57<dli>ben_goodger, I didn't even boot up windows on my thinkpad :( unfortunately, couldn't get a M$ tax refund
18:57<ben_goodger>I quite like it as a glorified games console
18:57<spanther>okay an very easy example (i am just a clean one :p so i love it) when you have coffee cup and a saussage and other things like a screen your clock and other things laying around in your room when you place them in order you find them faster but when you just put them somewhere later you need more time to find them (in hdd way loading and time the read head needs to go to this position then to the next one)
18:58<spanther>Knorrie: i think i'll look for ext3 stuff then since thats my lovely fs :)
18:58<ben_goodger>spanther: ext3 knows precisely how to place those so that they're exactly contiguous
18:59<Knorrie>spanther: not really, a person is different from a computer... humans tend to create habits... my X is at Y, a computer/OS/File System is just optimized logic
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19:00<spanther>ben_goodger: okay and when i delete some pictures and put some new in the same folder will they get placed in the free hole space so that they close these spaces ?
19:00<Knorrie>spanther: just try to learn about how it works, even if you won't be an ext3 developer there's lots of ideas and stuff to learn from
19:00<ben_goodger>spanther: it doesn't care about the folder, the folder is just file containing a list of other files
19:00<spanther>Knorrie: yep :) and since computers are my hobby :)
19:01<lupine>spanther: the ext3 driver is optimised to reduce file fragmentation. 'holes', as you put it, are irrelevent
19:01<spanther>ben_goodger: yeah i know that the folders are inside the index list and that this list includes what files have to be inside just wanted to know how ext3 handles space holes :)
19:02<ben_goodger>it's just literally a pile
19:02<lupine>given LBA, there's no guarantee that sectors 100 and 101 are actually physically contiguous, anyway
19:02<ben_goodger>directories on top, everything else further down, probably sorted by size
19:03<spanther>lupine: just wanted to know when there comes a new file what can get saved on the disc and it fits by size will it get put in that hole ?
19:03<lupine>maybe, maybe not
19:03<spanther>but ext3 still can use these space later without getting issues?
19:03<ben_goodger>not if there's a more precise fit for it
19:03<lupine>you should go lok at the algorithm, come back and let us know
19:03<spanther>aah! thats what i wanted to know
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19:04<lupine>incidentally, this is another reason for partitioning your drives - it helps to keep fragmentation and (lol *)holes down. How often does /usr change, compared to /var, for instance?
19:04<dli>spanther, I think ext4 reduces fragmentation even more
19:05<lupine>and here was me thinking we were all going to be using zfs.. ;)
19:05|-|dennis [~dennis@] has joined #debian
19:05<ben_goodger>zfs is quite a tidy replacement for LVM
19:05[~]lupine hides
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19:05<spanther>mh yeah partitions are a closed area (i mean a virtual harddrive) and files what have to be there cant get sprayed to other places on harddrive :)
19:06<spanther>dli: ext4 is out? why isnt that inside debian installer then could only choose ext3 :)
19:06<ben_goodger>because it's brand-new, slow as bloody hell and nearly untested
19:06<spanther>oooh okay i dont want it then *g*
19:07<spanther>so its no solution :p
19:07<dendrite>spanther: Well, if computers are your hobby, maybe you *should* check it out.
19:07<dendrite>spanther: Create a partition, format w/ ext4, and see what it does...
19:07<lupine>spanther: again, the physical structure of the disc bears remarkably little resemblance to the logical structure
19:07<spanther>dendrite: uh when it is not tested as stable and fast i have no use from it i need a secure fs :)
19:07<dli>spanther, kernel-2.6.19 and up
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19:08<dendrite>spanther: =)
19:08<dendrite>spanther: With LVM, it's dirt-simple to play with stuff like that
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19:09<lupine>hehe. use striped LVM across 6 discs /then/ worry about 'holes'
19:09<spanther>uh yeah lvm is this shared one thing where you can create logical volumes as often you want :)
19:09<lupine>futility has a new definition
19:09<dpkg>[lvm] at, Logical Volume Manager for Linux, or ask me about lvm_tutorial, or extremely sexy. almost as sexy as Theo
19:09<ben_goodger>making them smaller's a sod, though
19:09<dendrite>Ha ha ha. "almost as sexy as Theo"
19:10<spanther>i knew it lol xD logical volume manager so i was right with logical drives :) hrhr
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19:10<lupine>My LV's PEs are located in the same VG, but on different PVs
19:10<dendrite>ben_goodger: Yeah, can't shrink while mounted.
19:10<lupine>zomg acronymisms
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19:10<Knorrie>logical drive in extended partition the DOS way isn't what lvm is
19:11<ben_goodger>well, I don't know what reiser would say if it was shrunk while not mounted either
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19:11[~]lupine never uninstalls stuff from /, so doesn't need to shrink any partition he can't unmount
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19:11<spanther>Knorrie: i think LVM just reservate space and inside that you can make partitions like you want and other partitions cant go over the lvm as long you dont make the lvm smaller :) so that you have space reserved in your lvm for your needs ^^
19:11<dendrite>ben_goodger: =8-o
19:11<spanther>right? :)
19:12<spanther>dendrite: loool
19:12<spanther>a nerd smiley :X
19:12<spanther>geekish ^^
19:12<ben_goodger>geek != nerd!!!!
19:13<spanther>okay okay then geek :)
19:13<Knorrie>aptitude install geekcode
19:13<ben_goodger>nerds are short, spotty people who watch star trek too much, geeks are intelligent people who know far too much about filesystem fragmentation
19:13[~]dendrite runs apt-cache show geekcode and is enlightened.
19:13<ben_goodger>there is a certain overlap..
19:13<spanther>ben_goodger: uh okay but then i am a bit of geek mixed with a nerd xD
19:13<dendrite>I thought geeks bit the heads off of live chickens...
19:14<spanther>dendrite: eeww...
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19:14<spanther>heeeeeelp O.O
19:14<lupine>spanther: filesystems, not partitions
19:15<spanther> <--- read that o.o omg
19:15[~]lupine is neither geek nor nerd
19:15<spanther>i knew it :(
19:16<lupine>"So in this case the partition was heavily fragmented, but that is not very surprising because the partition is a bit too small and has therefore been always nearly full"
19:16<lupine>fer crying out loud, you're paranoid
19:17<spanther>oh *g*
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19:17<spanther>oh god how fast do you read lol
19:17<lupine>if it bothers you that much, back everything up; delete everything; then re-add things in order of likelihood-of-being-deleted
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19:18<spanther>i lay in my bed and have to read with some degrees back from horizontal view *g*
19:19|-|freex [~user@] has joined #debian
19:20<ben_goodger>thank god I bought a decent LCD.
19:21<pder>anyone have xorg-7.3 working? it is crashing for me regardless of what video driver i use
19:21<ben_goodger>samsung syncmaster 720n - swear by it
19:21<spanther>lupine: but you were much more down the text as me :)
19:21<spanther>ben_goodger: mines philips 190S :)
19:21<lupine>Given that I already know everything, I only have to skim-read things
19:21<ben_goodger>huge viewing angle, bit pink
19:22<stew>pder: i do, i'm sure lots of people do
19:22<ben_goodger>lupine: you're a true debian user
19:22<spanther>ben_goodger: lool
19:22<spanther>now that was sooo mean to me :)
19:22<spanther><-- *last alien on earth then* x.x
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19:24[~]lupine runs that script in a few random points on his filesystem
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19:24<pder>stew: what kernel version are you running?
19:24<lupine>oh noes, 416 of the files in /lib are non-contiguous. Whatever shall I do?
19:24<stew>pder: 2.6.21-2-amd64 and 2.6.22.something but i don't know what that has to do with it
19:26<spanther>okay in one forum i could read that i can scan my drive with "e2fsck -f /dev/sdb*" but when i tried that it says command not found for e2fsck what to do? :)
19:27<dendrite>spanther: First, run "man e2fsck"
19:27<dendrite>spanther: And be sure to understand what you're trying to do.
19:27<dendrite>spanther: Then, realize that this program wants root privs, and so could be quite dangerous.
19:28<spanther>it supports ext2 filesystems uh does that work with ext3 then too?
19:28<dendrite>spanther: Note that root typically has different $PATH than does a regular user, and that odds are that e2fsck isn't in the regular user's path.
19:28<ben_goodger>lupine: embark on a conscienscious, bitter and methodical campaign of utter and total defragmentation
19:28<dendrite>spanther: Read the man page.
19:28<dendrite>spanther: ext2 and ext3 have the same structure.
19:29<spanther>dendrite: okay :)
19:29<ben_goodger>as indeed does ext4
19:29<dendrite>spanther: Seriously, screwing with your file systems is dangerous, you need to take the time to really understand what you're doing.
19:29<ben_goodger>ext3 is just ext2 with journalling; ext4 I'm not sure about
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19:30<dendrite>You might as well run reiser in container files on ext4, if you don't know what you're about to do as root...
19:30<spanther>oh i shouldnt use it at mounted partitions :( mh okay
19:30<dendrite>ben_goodger: It's one more, dig it? Eventually they'll get to 11...
19:30<ben_goodger>of course
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19:32<ben_goodger>and by that time ipv6 will be used widely, hans reiser will have been tried, and of course spore will have been released
19:32<dendrite>And windows will be GPL
19:32<ben_goodger>doubt that
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19:32<ben_goodger>they'll work out that they need UNIX eventually...
19:33<spanther>can i umount my home partition?
19:33<ben_goodger>and then along comes another bastardisation of BSD
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19:33<dendrite>spanther: Yes, but not while anyone other than root is logged in.
19:33<ben_goodger>and now I'm going to bed. do us a favour, spanther, please don't bollocks your system
19:33<spanther>damn :) i am inside as user
19:33<spanther>ben_goodger: what's the meaning of bollocks?
19:34<spanther>you mean destroy then?
19:34<dendrite>spanther: He means don't trash your system.
19:34<ben_goodger>as a verb, it means "screw up"
19:34<ben_goodger>good night/morning/afternoon/evening
19:34<dendrite>spanther: Something that is very easy to do, given the path you appear to be on.
19:34<spanther>mmmh nice that you care for me :)
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19:35<ben_goodger>nah, I just don't want to have to listen to lupine going on and on about it
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19:35<dendrite>spanther: What you might enjoy doing is setting up qemu, and trashing the file system inside that.
19:35<spanther>well...good to know that then ! :P but good night :)
19:35|-|betobz changed nick to lobao
19:36<spanther>dendrite: loool
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19:37<dendrite>spanther: qemu is virtual machine technology, I use it when I am doing something that I don't want affecting my host/desktop system. (Except when I'm on a machine with Xen set up, in those cases I use Xen instead of qemu)
19:37<spanther>mh qemu (last time i've used it) was slow as hell while installing XP yeah i know there are kernel modules existing out there but i never build them inside since i was scared about touching the kernel
19:37<ben_goodger>if only one could use windows on it properly
19:37<spanther>ben_goodger: on what?
19:37<Xenguy>spanther: virtualbox ?
19:37<dendrite>spanther: yeah, I find qemu slow also. That's one reason I like xen so much more.
19:37<ben_goodger>as in, for games.
19:38<spanther>oooh so qemu and windows (issues) are familiar here?
19:38<dendrite>spanther: Not really.
19:38<spanther>thought it was my hardware first but when others have issues with it too then
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19:38<ben_goodger>it's just slow as hell
19:38<ben_goodger>and without kqemu, it will always be like that
19:38<spanther>ah i seee you mean 3D hardware acceleration
19:39|-|mode/#debian [+l 316] by debhelper
19:39<dendrite>ben_goodger: Well, it also seems to choke on WGA, under qemu.
19:39<ben_goodger>I've never used WGA..
19:39<spanther>mh for that they would have to go away from theyr "emulate a graphics card" way and just make the real one available for qemu :)
19:39<dendrite>ben_goodger: Neither have I. I did try though... =)
19:39<ben_goodger>I use one of those YARR versions that don't have WGA
19:39<dendrite>Heh heh.
19:40<spanther>i hate WGA .... (windows genuine advantage ??? ) hope thats what you mean with WGA :)
19:40<ben_goodger>gotta love the way microsoft publicise their backdoors...
19:40<spanther>lol yeah now i know i am right xD
19:41<spanther>ben_goodger: not only backdoors theyr policy is bad as hell too i mean just pay so much money for one stupid copy with "one" 1 license means when you change your mainboard you have no right to use your bought expencive windows lol
19:42<ben_goodger>it's as if they actually want me to go out of my way to use infringing software...
19:42<spanther>someone who can accept this policy i couldnt understand someone like that then :) everyone with brain should think "wtf thats just illegal" since you bought a product (cd with software) you should be able to use as you want to (private)
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19:43<ben_goodger>except that when you install it, you enter into a contract with microsoft
19:43<ben_goodger>they could stipulate that you dance on your head when using the software and then sue you for copyright infringement if you don't do so
19:43<spanther>the more bad their policy changes year by year (started with 95) the more i hate windows and try to evade from it soon before vista is the only left supported state of the art
19:44<ben_goodger>windows xp is just an expensive games console in any case...
19:44<ben_goodger>with wine improving daily, there's not much reason to run it any more
19:45<spanther>lol yeah xD glad european (and german rights) dont allow most of microsofts eula so doesnt matter what the eula says in germany you bought a software opened the box so you cant give it back (eula says if you dont agree give it back) doesnt work but you get rights here microsoft in germany cant say you cant use it later on a newer comp they have to unlock it for you here on your newer machine :)
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19:46<ben_goodger>lucky you
19:46<spanther>uh wine is nice yeah and linux too but xp for 50euro is um acceptable for playing games natively :)
19:46<ben_goodger>lucky you. XP Home costs £160 here
19:46<spanther>ben_goodger: yeah i know *g* in germany someone called his lawyer and got right by law :D
19:47<spanther>microsoft tried to use their eula and law said that doesnt work in germany and they have to give full rights to use it private so the license model doesnt work here you bought one copy and its your copy and you can run it for yourself private how you wish to :)
19:48<spanther>just annoying to call microsoft germany service for unlock it -.- lol
19:48<ben_goodger>british quiz show: "which middle-eastern country's flag features a line from the qu'ran over a sword on a green background?" "israel?"
19:48<spanther>but they got forced to that i mean this call service to unlock it again :D
19:48<spanther>they have to pay these guys who unlock your software while its free for you as customer x)
19:49<spanther>ben_goodger: no clue o.o
19:50<spanther>but dont you think 160pound is a big expencive for old XP ?
19:50<ben_goodger>of course
19:50<ben_goodger>that's why nobody pays for it
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19:50<spanther>this shop you saw it for that price is a fake Oo
19:50<ben_goodger>search for it retail...
19:51<spanther>ebay sells it for 52euro new boxed home professional then 59euro from some computer internet shops
19:51<ben_goodger>home professional?
19:51<spanther>vista home basic is 80euro and home premium 129euro
19:51<spanther>system builder editions :)
19:51<spanther>yup lol
19:52<ben_goodger>I'm talking about XP
19:52<spanther>not like 200 or 300 lol
19:52<ben_goodger>you don't seriously think anyone uses vista...
19:52<spanther>XP Professional original you can buy for 59euro here :) saw it few weeks before
19:52[~]dendrite double checks the channel he's in.
19:52<spanther>dendrite: dont worry we just talk cause nobody needs help , its late , and we have nothing other to do *smiles*
19:53<ben_goodger>well, actually I need sleep in preparation for my driving lesson tomorrow
19:53<spanther>and nobody advertises 3rd party systems lol
19:53<spanther>ben_goodger: sleep well :)
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19:55<spanther>vista was pre-installed on my toshiba notebook i've bought june this year in store i would never pay for it hehe :) but then i thought what a crappy stuff sure it looks nice and runs more smooth and more stable but this whole "backdoor" stuff to hear around the world and NSA stuff now and i just dont trust them so i put debian on it since it runs best on it ubuntu had loading issues but debian runs without errors hehe :D
19:56|-|faw [~felipe@] has joined #debian
19:56<spanther>and since debian is the basic with true su not only sudo and ubuntu is just some packages build around debian an debian is the native system i prefer it too :)
19:56<spanther>dendrite: ?
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19:57<chealer_>spanther: the conversation went off-topic
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19:58<spanther>chealer_: i know but nobody wrote about topic stuff and so i thought better talking about random stuff and the world than idling around :)
19:59<spanther>good way to find new friends too
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20:00<spanther>i love it to know how other people are starting from oppinions and other things just want to know who's around me here :) or is social life restricted here completely?
20:01<PowerUser>!tell PowerUser about livid
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20:05<dnet>hey, experienced with installing debian but i need help with a certian part of the install
20:05<spanther>dnet: which one?
20:05<spanther>no :) which part
20:05<dnet>i just grabbed the latest copy of the netinst cd today
20:06<dnet>when im installing it before it hits the partition manager i can choose the network adapter to use
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20:06<dnet>i want to use my wireless card on my laptop
20:06<dnet>but it will not detect my wifi signal, even when i type in my ssid
20:07<spanther>while installing debian better use wired solutions :) after setting up debian and running it you still can install and configure your wifi card but i dont know if it will work while install hehe
20:07<dnet>gay..they shouldnt put it in the install!
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20:08<dnet>but there comes another problem, i cant get my wifi running on the laptop when i have debian installed!
20:08<dnet>it sees the card fine
20:08<amphi>dnet: what card?
20:08<dnet>it knows the card is there
20:08<spanther>shows he mean :)
20:08<dnet>but it just sits there like a retard looking at a tree
20:09<amphi>dnet: you mean lspci shows it, or ifconfig -a shows it?
20:09<spanther>oh my god lol what a description
20:09<amphi>spanther: eh?
20:09<dnet>intersil corporation ISL3890 [Prism GT/Prism Duette] /ISL388
20:09|-|saltmiser [] has joined #debian
20:09<dnet>iwconfig shows is there, it just wont get a signal :/
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20:10<spanther>amphi: not you hehe his way to talk i mean so full of life and fantasy *g*
20:10<amphi>spanther: ah - hardly 'life and fantasy' in my book
20:10<amphi>dnet: iwlist <iface> scan shows anything?
20:10<dnet>i just wanna install debian and install the new gnome :(
20:10<dnet>iwlist wont scan
20:11<amphi>why not? you get some error message? that would be more useful than a random aolism
20:11<spanther>aolism <-- does that point at AOL ? :)
20:12<dnet>eek, i would have to install deb agian, im not that far...i got pissed and got rid of the partition ;x
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20:12<dnet>and i dont have another ethernet cable to spare cept the one for my destkop, wich im currently on =\
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20:13<spanther>and i thought i would annoy others with my "living" way to talk lol now i know i am not that bad *gg*
20:14<spanther>dnet: just install debian with LAN cable then you have a network manager inside gnome where you can connect to a network :)
20:14<dnet>wait hold
20:14<dnet>i just got a pcmcica resource range option on this installer
20:14<dnet>lets see if i can guess this to work
20:14<spanther>you use pcmcia card??
20:15<dnet>yes its a laptop
20:15<spanther>ooh i see lol i thought build in w-lan :)
20:15<spanther>okay then i dont know hehe
20:15<dnet>nah this particular model dont have it
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20:16<dnet>ok this is jewish
20:16<spanther>this is what? ....
20:16<dnet>the card is there, it knows the card is there, but no lights on the card turn on/flicker/whatev
20:17<spanther>pcmcia is sometimes a hard nut but pcmcia paired with w-lan oh my god :) have fun *g*
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20:20<dnet>screw it ima find a crossover cable and piggy off my pc
20:20<dnet>bbl all.
20:20<amphi>dnet: pcmcia or cardbus? I expect thae latter
20:20<spanther>with notebooks its harder than with normal computers you have to have some luck that everything works or buy a notebook what is known as working :)
20:20<dnet>whats the diff
20:20|-|jack_wyt_ [~jack@] has joined #debian
20:20<dnet>just so i know
20:21<dnet>well i do laptop repair as a profession
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20:21<spanther>amphi: is pcmcia old? cause my new notebook had good hardware but still a pcmcia slot lol :) dont know how to use it now
20:21<amphi>dnet: cardbus is 32bit, and a cardbus card will just show up on the pci bus
20:22<lontra>i added a patch to kdebase & kdelibs and built/installed the packages but i think dpkg didn't clean up the directories after cause each one is 1.1 GB and 1.7 GB respectively ... is there a 'make clean' kind of command i could run or should i just delete the directories?
20:22<amphi>dnet: the slots are almost identical; you can get a cardbus card in a pcmcia slot (without breaking something
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20:22<amphi>dnet: pcmcia cards work in cardbus slots, but need more care and feeding
20:22<spanther>amphi: but does that work too? :D
20:22<spanther>care and feeding?
20:23<spanther>its not an animal lol
20:23|-|localhost [~debian@] has quit [Quit: CyberScript - com o mIRC mais atual e em português (]
20:23<amphi>spanther: shows how much you know ;)
20:23<spanther>amphi: ha ha ha :p
20:24<spanther>i never worked with notebook stuff how should i know then :)
20:24<amphi>spanther: yes, a pcmcia should work (assuming there's a driver for it), but I expect what you have is a cardbus card
20:24<lontra>hrm ... it looks like i should have run dpkg-buildpackge -rfakeoot -tc but i didn't ... is there a way to run something like that now?
20:24<spanther>notebooks are new area for me hehe
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20:24<spanther>amphi: so i can use it crossed ? pcmcia cards in cardbus slots and cardbus cards in pcmcia slots?
20:25<chealer_>lontra: debian/rules clean;?
20:25<amphi>spanther: the former, but not the latter
20:25<spanther>amphi: that means?
20:25<amphi>spanther: only a very old machine will have pcmcia slots
20:25<lontra>chealer_: but it didn't clean the directories ... how can i do it now??
20:25<lontra>sorry about the 2nd ?
20:26<amphi>spanther: yes and no
20:27<spanther>amphi: lool
20:27<spanther>amphi: its nothing from both :D
20:27<spanther>amphi: 1 x PC Card Socket for 1x Type II Card
20:27<spanther>PC Card never heard before lol now whats that :)
20:28<chealer_>lontra: you tried running debian/rules clean; and it didn't clean?
20:28<amphi>spanther: almost certainly cardbus
20:28<spanther>so PC Card is cardbus? okay :)
20:28<amphi>spanther: unless it's ancient
20:28|-|Perversus [] has joined #debian
20:28<spanther>amphi: its a notebook bought june this year with core2duo t5200 1gb ddr2 and geforce7600go nothing ancient :)
20:29<amphi>pc card can by either, I think - they decided that pcmcia was too difficult for das Publikum
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20:29<amphi>spanther: it'll be cardbus then
20:29<lontra>chealer_: i'm a little confused but ... i have tried running debian/rules clean and nothing happens and then i've run ./rules clean and a bunch of errors as i'd probably expect
20:29<chealer__>lontra: what errors?
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20:35<spanther>is there an easy way how i can find out what sort of ram is inside my notebook ? (for upgrades cause i have 1gb at 1 of 2 sockets and max of 2gb supported)
20:35<spanther>no max 4gb :)
20:36|-|chealer_ [~chealer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:36<coir>What's the argument to allow scrolling in a command line when doing a search or something, such as "apt-get search blah." It's like | less or something?
20:37<coir>oops, it is
20:37<coir>| less
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20:41<julijustris>did you have troubles with xserver in debian Sid last days?
20:41<julijustris>everytime I try to start gnome or kde applications it crashed
20:41<julijustris>It only work if I use twm as window manager and applications such as grace
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20:44<Xenguy>julijustris: FWIW, if you don't have apt-listbugs installed, I'd suggest it
20:44|-|h2oman [] has quit [Quit: o.0]
20:44<julijustris>what does this app?
20:45<julijustris>does it list the current open bugs of the distro?
20:45|-|jae_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:45<Xenguy>julijustris: when you upgrade, it will check the bug tracking system (BTS) to see if there are any open bugs, and if yes, then give you a chance to abort/not upgrade.
20:46<julijustris>ah, thanks, I did not know it
20:46<Xenguy>julijustris: particularly useful if you are running testing or unstable
20:46<spanther>any screenshots from the new debian sid desktop design out ? :)
20:47<julijustris>Now I am writing wit xchat in windows, could you suggest me an irc client for console?
20:47<spanther>julijustris: irssi :)
20:47<julijustris>so I can start any xwindow with gnome applications
20:47<Xenguy>julijustris: irssi for sure
20:47<julijustris>thank you spanther
20:47<spanther>no prob ^^
20:48<julijustris>the command line is irssi and then /server /join #debian
20:48|-|h2oman [] has joined #debian
20:48<julijustris>or have I to provide these data as command targets
20:49<spanther>you still said it right
20:49<julijustris>thanks, see you soon
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20:52<spanther>mh kay i'll get sleepy
20:52<spanther>good night everyone
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20:56<alekz>Hi I've installed apache2 package using apt, but I edit /etc/apache2/httpd.conf but seems that apache is not using it, how can I see the .conf that runs when I start the daemon?
20:58|-|julijustris [~juanma@] has joined #debian
20:59<julijustris>how can I get the comand on the channe? perhaps /help
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21:00<chealer__>alekz: did you restart apache?
21:04[~]julijustris jejej
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21:10<sine>how can i see if my wifi is working
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21:12<sine>hey chaps
21:13<Xenguy>julijustris: connect ?
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21:20<wo0f_>how do i change the repos that debian uses?
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21:21<lontra>wo0f_: edit /etc/apt/sources.list
21:22<wo0f_>lontra, cheers
21:22<wo0f_>lontra, you know a list of all the repos?
21:23<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, debian mirrors is or | ask me about <apt-setup> or <apt-spy> | to make a mirror, see
21:23<lontra>wo0f_: dpkg does ;)
21:23<wo0f_>ah, thanks lontra
21:23<lontra>wo0f_: and if you're talking about 'all of the repos' that exist for debian that aren't official well you're talking about a lot of repos :)
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21:24<wo0f_>lontra, also, are there non-free repos for drivers etc?
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21:24<lontra>wo0f_: well you can add 'contrib non-free' to the end of the deb and deb-src lines but i'm not really sure about non-free drivers ... what driver are you talking about?
21:25<lontra>wo0f_: there isn't anything like ubuntu's restricted manager if that's what you mean
21:25<wo0f_>lontra, :( :( :(
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21:26<wo0f_>lontra, thats exactly what i need
21:26<lontra>wo0f_: what driver?
21:26<wo0f_>well, for my ati chipset
21:26<dpkg>Want to use a newer ATI videocard in sarge? for etch/testing and sid/unstable, just install fglrx-driver and fglrx-kernel-src and read /usr/share/doc/fglrx-kernel-src/README.Debian.gz Try to avoid using ati's stuff directy unless you have to. --- I've heard the driver control panel app needs 32bit libs to compile under 64b, or, or and open specs announced 2007-09-05.
21:27<wo0f_>dpkg owns :D
21:27<dpkg>methinks dpkg is the program used by debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". also ask me about <apt howto>
21:27<lontra>!win dpkg
21:27<dpkg>Congratulations, dpkg! You have won a lifetime supply of spam!
21:27<wo0f_>!loose dpkg
21:27<dpkg>You lose dpkg! [and wo0f_ can't spell, either.]
21:27<lontra>he he
21:28<wo0f_>!bot dpkg
21:31<wo0f_>lontra, will i be able to replace the etch mirror all together with lenny?
21:32<lontra>wo0f_: how do you mean? if you want to move from stable to testing ... yes
21:33<wo0f_>lontra, i mean, will i have access to all the same packages, but testing?
21:33<wo0f_>rather than stable
21:33<lontra>for example, if you have this: deb stable main contrib non-free you can change it to 'stable' to 'lenny' you'll be in testing
21:33<lontra>wo0f_: more packages are available in testing i believe
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21:33<wo0f_>i see
21:34<lontra>wo0f_: you could also set up a mixed system
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21:34<lontra>!mixed system
21:34<dpkg>it has been said that mixed system is Read section 3.8 "How to keep a mixed system" of the APT HOWTO at (better yet, read the whole thing! :)
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21:37<wo0f_>lontra, thanks for your help
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21:37<lontra>wo0f_: no problem ... good luck!
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21:45<julijustris>ya esta, ya se me ocurrió
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21:52<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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22:09|-|mode/#debian [+l 310] by debhelper
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22:27<thank>i have question about mail command
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22:28<thank>how to send mail by mail command
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22:29|-|mode/#debian [+l 304] by debhelper
22:29<thank>who can kindly help ??
22:29<Jasons>man mail?
22:30<thank>and use exim4 ??
22:30<thank>mail -s "test" < mymail.txt -v
22:31|-|sine [~sine@] has joined #debian
22:31<thank>it's error prompt !!
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22:39<thank>anybody understand ??
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22:58<sine>anyone know about acpi on debian
22:59|-|mode/#debian [+l 297] by debhelper
22:59<sine>or is it to early in the morning
22:59<sine>6am ffs i should sleep
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23:01<lisybest>not familiar with this... is someone there?
23:02<lisybest>I need help
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23:03<chealer__>lisybest: yes
23:03|-|Sub-Zero [~desk@] has joined #debian
23:04<chealer__>lisybest: don't send a private message without requesting permission
23:04|-|chealer__ changed nick to chealer
23:05<lisybest>oh sorry
23:05<lisybest>let me explain the situation (problem) that I have now with debian
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23:06<lisybest>Chealer... are you still here?
23:06<chealer>lisybest: yes
23:07<lisybest>ok I did a ping and now the same info keep appearing on the screen
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23:08<lisybest>sorry if I am not clear. You can ask Q and I will answer you
23:08<lisybest>by the way, do you speak spanish?
23:10<lisybest>chealer can you be of any help?
23:10<chealer>lisybest: this is an English channel. #debian-es is spanish.
23:10<chealer>lisybest: you want to interrupt the ping command?
23:11<lisybest>chealer: yes I would like to!
23:11<chealer>lisybest: you can use Ctrl+C
23:11<lisybest>chealer: ok I will try and let you know
23:12<lisybest>chealer: it worked! WON-DER-FUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
23:13<dpkg>[apt] Advanced Packaging Tool, a package management system used by Debian and its derivatives. There is no apt program per se; APT is a C++ library of functions that are used by several command line programs for dealing with packages, most notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude. see also <apt-get> <apt-cache>
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23:14<lisybest>chealer: I'm really not used to Debian and my associate is out of the office for a few months soooo if I experience any further situations, I will come right here and look for you!
23:14<chealer>lisybest: hehe. there are other people that help too :)
23:16<lisybest>chealer: I found out about this channel while looking on Debian web site and so deperate to find a solution. Thanks a million times. This is a great place to come for help.
23:16<chealer>lisybest: it's nothing.
23:17<lisybest>chealer: it might seem like nothing to you but to me it means alot!
23:18<lisybest>chealer: sorry if I offended you when I went on "private" without asking the permission. I did know any rules
23:19<chealer>lisybest: no problem, I was not offended. it's not a rule, just etiquette.
23:19|-|myles [] has quit [Quit: myles]
23:19<lisybest>chealer: oh... etiquette.. isn't that a french word?
23:20<chealer>lisybest: maybe. French is my native language :)
23:20|-|asma [~asma@] has joined #debian
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23:21<lisybest>chealer: guess what.. it's mine too!
23:21<chandu>I am getting some garbage messages when I tried to format a partition using mkfs with ext3 partition
23:21<chandu>Writing inode tables: 0/635 1/635 2/635
23:22<chandu>Something like this while writing inode table ... it starts from 0/635 and ends at 634/635
23:22<chandu>I want to gid rid of this message there any way ..what may be the cause for this long message
23:23<chealer>lisybest: really? why were you asking about spanish?
23:23<lisybest>chealer: because I work in Cuba and part of the information my technician left me (in case of any problems) are written in spanish!!!
23:24<chealer>lisybest: d'accord
23:25<lisybest>chealer: I must go now... to rest my headhache!! heheh..
23:26<chealer>lisybest: bye
23:26<lisybest>chealer: just a last Q. Where are you now?
23:26|-|kart_ [~kart_@] has joined #debian
23:26<chealer>lisybest: I'm in Quebec city, Quebec, Canada
23:27<lisybest>chealer: that's really funny. I originally from Mtl
23:27<chealer>lisybest: cool :) hope you're doing well in Cuba expect for that headache
23:28<chandu>I want to suppress the message coming when writing to inode ... how do I do that with mkfs
23:28<chandu>which optin can I use with mkfs for suppressing thaet message
23:28<lisybest>chealer: I'm doing very well! and will send you a bit of my hot weather!
23:29<chealer>lisybest: hehehe. it's good here for the time of the year, but thanks :)
23:30<lisybest>chealer: it was nice talking to you. Almost unbelievable that someone from Quebec Canada was my life-savers on Debian... here in Cuba
23:30<lisybest>chealer: just can't wait to tell that to my collegues tomorrow!
23:31<chealer>lisybest: it's even harder to believe that I saved your life with such an easy tip :) bye
23:31<lisybest>chealer: hehehe... bye now!
23:32<lisybest>Chealer: one LAST Q. Are you often here on the channel? or was I really lucky to bump into you tonight?
23:33<chealer>lisybest: about 1/5 of time
23:34<lisybest>chealer: ok bye... from a really lucky new user!!
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23:48[~]DarkX is Away, Reason: ( sleep ) | Since: ( Wednesday, September 19, 2007. 19:10:38 ) Xlack v2.1
23:48<chealer>!tell DarkX about away
23:48<DarkX>yeah i know chealer
23:48<DarkX>script broke
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23:51<julito>somebody speak spanish?
23:51<chealer>!tell julito about es
23:53<julito>what chealer ?
23:53<julito>sorry, but my english is very poor
23:53<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor usen #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please use #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
23:53<julito>dpkg i'm speak in english
23:54<julito>chealer, come to debian-es please?
23:54<chealer>julito: do you want support in English or spanish?
23:54<julito>mmm, do you speak spanish?
23:54|-|matt_penang [~matt@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:55<chealer>julito: my spanish is too old
23:56<julito>chealer, please, can you tell me about permiss /etc/squid
23:56<julito>i'm execute chmod a+x squid in /etc
23:57<chealer>julito: sorry, I don't know squid. try asking to the channel.
23:58|-|family [] has joined #debian
23:58<julito>sorry, what is the channel?
23:58<family>hey guys i just debootstraped etch but i need to find someway to install this to my harddrive im so completely lost
23:58<chealer>julito: just ask your question here to everyone
23:58<family>i want to make a iso
23:59<family>then copy everything to the hard drive
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 20 00:00:03 2007