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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-01-09

---Logopened Wed Jan 09 00:00:03 2008
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00:06<Supaplex>!tell jack_ -about ask
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00:08<jack_>I have just compiled a hello world program using glut.h
00:09<jack_>I find my system does not support direct rendering
00:10<jack_>I run glxinfo and it says "direct rendering: No"
00:11<jack_>My laptop is IBM T43 Thinkpad
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00:11<jack_>It has an ATI video card
00:12<jack_>How can I solve this problem
00:12<ezc>anyone know why the network connection applet on gnome desktop shows that I'm disconnected when i am connected to a network?
00:12<ezc>and i can't use gtk programs that require network access like email client, etc
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00:48<JustSoul2>good morning :)
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01:40<Woland>does anybody know how to configure my touchpad if xorg synaptics driver says that i have not such device?
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01:41<tux>hi to all
01:42<JustSoul2>What's best alternative for MS Active Directory?
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01:42<tux>someone can tell me how see the list of my hardware
01:43<JustSoul2>tux /sys
01:43<sep>tux depends on the hardware try lspci ?
01:44<tux>thank you
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01:47<JustSoul2>may be..
01:48<JustSoul2>Is it smbd here?
01:49<sep>JustSoul2, i dont know what's best (for you) but we use samba + openldap
01:50<JustSoul2>Is it possible to make samba BDC?
01:50<JustSoul2>with MS PDC ?
01:51<sep>JustSoul2, i'd expect pain, tears and suffering. but a samba bdc to a samba pdc should be ok
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01:55<JustSoul2>sep may be You know some FAQs, RTFMs, INFOs ... How To change OS from MS Win to debian in Company? ..
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01:58<sep>JustSoul2, i dont admin many desktops. generaly look at the apps. if there is critical apps that you can not run, you'r basicaly stuck,.
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01:58<JustSoul2>i understand it
01:59<sep>you can try emulation or vm solutions or terminal solutions, but sometimes changing os on the desktop just for the heck of it is counter productive
02:00<JustSoul2>sep, heck?
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02:33<mike_>Hi! Please, help me to find driver for NIC "Attansic L1 LAN controller" on Debian Etch 4.0
02:33<jm_>!tell mike_ about which driver
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02:39<Supaplex>how keen.
02:39<streuner>!which driver
02:39<dpkg>methinks driver locator is To work out what module you need to load for your pci card, try pasting lspci -n into .
02:40<bignose>I'm writing a Makefile and am trying to think of a tool that will be commonly installed on GNU/Linux to perform a particular step
02:40<gsimmons>mike_: See also <>.
02:40<bignose>I need to check whether a specific file exists, and return success when it appears; but only wait a certain timeout period, and return failure if it hasn't appeared in that time.
02:41<bignose>i.e. I'd like to allow up to 5 seconds for the file to appear; but if it appears in less time than that, I want to know before the timeout elapses
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02:42<jm_>the only safe way for that is a shell script with sleep and shell tests
02:42<bignose>what tool, or combination of tools, can I use that would likely be installed on Debian GNU/Linux machines?
02:43<bremner>bignose: perl script?
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02:44<bignose>meh. if it requires writing it myself, I'll just do it in the Makefile with a function.
02:44<bignose>but if there's something that already does it, I'd be foolish to write and debug my own.
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02:45<stew>sounds like a job for fam / gamin, but youd have to write a client and ther are not going to be installed on many systems
02:46<bremner>and anyway fam/gamin are not 100% reliable in my experience
02:46<jm_>it's certainly not a standard tool, you won't find anything which can help installed on all systems (starting with inotify tools for example)
02:46<Supaplex>test -e foo && break ; sleep 1
02:46<bignose>Supaplex: yes, that's what I'm already doing. ah well.
02:47<bignose>thanks guys, just needed to sanity check I wasn't re-inventing a wheel.
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03:13<krasi>In what user group i have to be member to listen sound. At the moment i recieve the folowing message "/dev/dsp can't be opened (Permission denied)"
03:13<gurpreet>krasi, audio
03:14<paistis>useradd [user] adio
03:14<paistis>or was it adduser
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03:23<krasi>gurpreet:my user is alredy memer of audio group
03:24<Supaplex>krasi: did you relogin? What's id say?
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03:24<krasi>Supaplex: No
03:24<blarson>krasi: ls -l /dev/dsp See the group and permissions
03:25<dpkg>somebody said sound was ask me about <alsa checklist>, <alsa one-liner>, <ac97>, <audio>, <dmix>, <esound> and <arts>. For sarge go to
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03:26<Supaplex>krasi: if you haven't relogged in since adding yourself to that group, you'll either need to do that, or use something like sg, newgrp
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03:27<krasi>I will relog now thanx
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03:33<gurpreet>is there any game similer to counter strike in linux?
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03:36<Supaplex>yea, I think it's called ... counter strike.
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03:37<gurpreet>Supaplex, you mean port exists for debian? but its not in the repos
03:38<Supaplex>I doubt it's in the repos. I thought there was a linux port, but I haven't ventured to chase it down
03:39<gurpreet>Supaplex, cool, i will do this chasing thing
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03:39<Supaplex>good luck :)
03:39<gurpreet>Supaplex, thanks, i need it
03:40<paistis>gurpreet: yes wolfenstein E.T
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03:40<paistis>and you can run cs on wine
03:41<gurpreet>paistis, what is wolfenstein E.T.?
03:41<Bauer>How can I set up direct rendering?
03:41<paistis>it's base on Ww2 free multiplayer game
03:41<paistis>E.T = Enemy territory
03:42<gurpreet>paistis, is it like CS?
03:42<Bauer>How can I set up direct rendering?
03:43<paistis>Bauer: what is your graphcis card?
03:43<gurpreet>paistis, cool
03:43<paistis>what graphics card you have*
03:43<paistis>Bauer: use ati vanilla kernel driver
03:43<paistis>what cipt ?
03:44<gurpreet>paistis, ET isnt in the repos
03:44<Bauer>i don't know
03:44<Bauer>How can I know it?
03:44<paistis>gurpreet: you have to ise google
03:44<paistis>Bauer: lspci
03:45<paistis>hmm.. today is typo day
03:45<gurpreet>paistis, ok, thanks for telling abt ET
03:45<paistis>no problem, it might e hard to find
03:45<Bauer>it is VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M22 [Radeon Mobility M300]
03:46<paistis>load radeon and mach64 modules
03:46<paistis>and check that your x is running on ati driver
03:47<Bauer>paistis: the radeon is loaded
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03:47<Bauer>paistis: what is mach64 about?
03:48<streuner>for older chipsets (ATI)
03:48<streuner>you prolly dont need that
03:48<streuner>ATI Rage 128, for example
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03:49<streuner>Radeon isnt mach64
03:49<paistis>yes the ati should do the work
03:49<Bauer>so i need only Radeon
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03:49<paistis>streuner: thanks
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03:50<Bauer>I have lsmod, and radeon is loaded
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03:50<Bauer>IBM T43
03:50<streuner>Bauer: what kind of laptop?
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03:51<streuner>thinkpads are well supported in Linux
03:51<dpkg>laptop is, like, All there is worth knowing about linux and laptops can be found at and and also ask me about <acpi> and <suspend>, or see the debian-laptop mailing list at For Thinkpads, ask me about <thinkpad>
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03:53<Bauer>What should i do next?
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03:54<Bauer>I use default debian kernel
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03:55<streuner>should be easy to get X working with t43
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03:55<streuner>there are 3 entries for Debian, read all of them
03:56<Bauer>Thanks streuner
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03:59<streuner>Bauer: read that too, many trics and tips, but dont use his suggestion about using other than Debian's X system...
03:59<streuner>otherwise you dont have support then...
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04:02<Bauer>my X is working
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04:03<Bauer>but it does not support direct rendering
04:03<Bauer>I have just compiled a program using glut.h
04:03<Bauer>The performance is low
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04:08<streuner>Bauer: try to google about "x300 ati Debian direct rendering", is also interesting, sorry, no idea about that
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04:16<JustSoul2>the simplest hex editor under installation console or how to read first 512B of hda except dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/tty0 count=1
04:16<niru>I have a .c and makefile
04:16<niru>how can i make module for that
04:17<JustSoul2>mb make?
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04:19<gurpreet>my aptitude is locked up due to closing xterm in the middle of install, how can i fix this?
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04:19<jm_>JustSoul2: use dd
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04:23<JustSoul2>jm_: thx
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04:24<jm_>JustSoul2: simple hexeditor is biew or hexedit, but you can also use vim via xdd
04:24<jm_>uhm xxd, sorry
04:24<jm_>or any other hexeditor really
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04:25<jm_>text-editor ;)
04:26<dpkg>somebody said grub was the Grand Unified Bootloader at . It's an extremely powerful boot loader which can boot many OSes, understands many filesystems (including <reiserfs> and <XFS> since 0.97), but see For an install guide, see, or "aptitude install grub grub-doc". To reinstall, ask about <fixmbr>.
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04:31<apeitheo>Does anyone know if the flac vulnerabilities were fixed in etch?
04:32<apeitheo>I checked the changelog for the flac package and it seems the last update was last year (Jan 2007), so does this affect stable?
04:33<stew>!tracker of doom
04:33<dpkg>[tracker of doom] a vulnerability database maintained by the debian security team, viewable at or read
04:33<stew>apeitheo: ^^ you should be able to lookup by the CVE id in the first url
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04:36<apeitheo>stew, ah, thanks; it seems it's fixed in lenny/sid but it hasn't been backported to etch yet.. have any idea when they'll do that?
04:37<apeitheo>etch is vulnerable in the meantime until they backport it, bah
04:37<stew>apeitheo: i don't know
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04:45<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez aller aux canaux #debian-fr sur ou French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on or
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04:46<@weasel>rchenevez: you are wrong here. go away.
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04:46<rchenevez>yes yes yes
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05:16<janee>hello ne
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05:30<@weasel>quiet too
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05:31<JasonS>dont jinx it
05:33<Maulkin>weasel: are you still opped, or is my client being odd again?
05:34<@weasel>I am.
05:34<Maulkin>Ahh, ok :)
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06:06<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, software raid is commonly used to describe RAID facilities in the Linux kernel. This means that you can RAID with any disks, with no need for a "special" (read winmodem) hardware controller., also see, or see section of the <ig>
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06:16<Nemoder>bah, still no wxwidgets 2.8 for debian
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06:30<caroline>marinaldo e tiamo nofuito
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06:39<dpkg>per aiuto in lingua italiana, provi il canale #debian-it sulla rete (non C'è anche il canale #linux-it là.
06:40<twb>I guess that was pt anyway, now I look at the first line; and she's gone anyway.
06:40<twb>Nemoder: file a bug?
06:41<FelipeBare>is there a solution for centralized update management of debian servers ?
06:42<Nemoder>twb: I looked at the mailing list archives, apparently it is some political thing, not sure I want to get involved..
06:42<jm_>FelipeBare: cfengine and the likes maybe
06:42<twb>cfengine / puppet?
06:42<themill>FelipeBare: cron-apt, but you might like to have your own repo to test things then push them out
06:43<twb>Or perhaps you just want to run "aptitude update && aptitude upgrade" on each host? If that's the case, you could use passphraseless ssh keys locked to a single command
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06:43<meandtheshel1>wow, me finally found a decent audio player (exaile)
06:44<FelipeBare>i'm thinking on a program that i can select what package to upgade for example.
06:45<jm_>there's also debsecan
06:46<twb>FelipeBare: you have a custer of homogeneous servers?
06:46<Maulkin>Also see sclusterssh
06:46<Maulkin>erm... clusterssh
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06:47<FelipeBare>no i dont.
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06:51<FelipeBare>thanks for all
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07:03<Baggy>I just added a new path in /etc/profile, after a reboot I am having trouble logging in. I am prompted with "GDM could not write to your authorization file. This could mean that you are out of disk space or that you home directory could not be opened for writing...". Could the reason for this message be me editing the profile, or am I out of disk space? How do I fix it?
07:04<petemc>ctl alt f1
07:04<petemc>log in, df -h
07:04<jm_>you're probably having issues with ~/.Xauthority or somesuch
07:04<jm_>or whatever gdm sets up for it
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07:08<Baggy>Thanks, I'm out of disk space.. which sux.. how in the world did I manage that..
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07:09<Baggy>*lol* nope, no music, movies, games or anything like.. just programs and code..
07:09<twb>Baggy: baobab/filelight is your friend.
07:10<Tarcas>Baggy, see if there are any huge logs in /var/log, and then you might clear out some home directories.
07:10<twb>Probably a runaway /var/log
07:10<twb>User quoats ftw
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07:10<Tarcas>quoats or quotas? ;-)
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07:12<twb>"Sorry, boss, I cannot accept more users on my system, we're over quota as it is. Union rules. >breaks out shotgun<"
07:12<Baggy>how much free spave do I need to log back in?
07:13<twb>Theoretically, 0.
07:13<Tarcas>Baggy, shouldn't be much to log in. Just enough to log the login.
07:14<jm_>and several temp. files
07:15<jm_>also check ~/.xsession-errors and its size
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07:16<twb>Bah, X.
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07:17<slapaf>how do I enable a2ensite for a group X ? I've set permissions and it works with full path /usr/sbin/a2ensite
07:18<Baggy>jm: it doesn't exist
07:18<jm_>slapaf: users don't have /usr/sbin in their PATH, that's most likely your problem
07:18<slapaf>how do i give em that?
07:18<slapaf>where is path set for a user?
07:18<dpkg>methinks path is the environment variable that tells the OS where to look for programs. It's defined in /etc/profile or ~/.bash_profile or ~/.profile (for sh-like shells) or ~/.login for csh-like shells.
07:19<jm_>also login.defs
07:19<slapaf>wicked, i'll have a look at that
07:19<slapaf>thx jm_
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07:25<Dr_O>Hi... press-release for debian 4.0r2 says that there are updated floppy and netboot images. However I cannot find them... any help appreciated!
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07:29<Dr_O>particularly looking for netboot.tar.gz
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07:30<slapaf>jm_: I added PATH=/usr/sbin:"${PATH}"
07:30<slapaf>but i still doesnt work...any idea of what im doing wrong?
07:30<Kebianizao|work>I'm using valgrind but I have the impression that the suppressions are not working very well:
07:31<jm_>slapaf: echo $PATH to see its value - where did you add it?
07:31<Kebianizao|work>shouldn't all that errors coming from libc6 suppressed?
07:31<slapaf>in /home/user/.bash_profile
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07:31<slapaf>its not shown in echo $PATh
07:32<dpkg>~/.bashrc is where you put all your aliases and functions. It's read at start-up time by all interactive non-login shells. To make sure it's read by a login shell, put "source ~/.bashrc" at the end of ~/.bash_profile, or just remove the comment that is placed before the already typed include line that Debian's ~/.bash_profile has by default.
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07:32<jm_>slapaf: bash_profile is only read for login shells
07:32<jm_>see above
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07:34*tont hello to all
07:34<twb>If you're a dirty ol' man like me you could set up xterm and scren to always create login shells by default
07:35<jm_>Kebianizao|work: are you actually using lic6-dbg?
07:35<slapaf>ah..that helped
07:35<slapaf>works now, thx jm
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07:36<JustSoul2>debian installed on md0 [raid1 sda1(active, bootable)+sdb1], sda crashed, but machine still working. Hotplug is not recomended. I have first 44Kb of sda. On VM I try to simulate situation but system doesn't boot from new sda (with 44Kb) and of course from sdb..
07:37<JustSoul2>I think it's time to search for new job..
07:38<Kebianizao|work>jm_: yep
07:38<jm_>Kebianizao|work: it says it's 2.7 - and where do you see libc errors?
07:39<Kebianizao|work>jm_: lemme check about libc versions
07:39<tont>How do I enable acpi? If I go on klaptop and then on the power control tab say you may need to enable ACPI suspend/resume in the ACPI panel
07:39<jm_>tont: load kernel modules for it
07:40<Kebianizao|work>jm_: libc6 and libc6-dbg are 2.7-5, latest sid
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07:41<Baggy>Any more tips regarding my login problem? I've tried deleting stuff, but with no results. The .Xauthority file is null bytes in size.. What in the world could be causing something like this?
07:41<Kebianizao|work>jm_: and the errors I refer are at lines 351, 375 ..
07:41<twb>JustSoul2: first of all, what bootloader are you using?
07:41<jm_>Baggy: do you see some free space now?
07:41<jm_>Baggy: remove .Xauthority file
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07:41<jm_>Kebianizao|work: but that's not a libc error and it's not mentioned in debian-libc6-dbg.supp
07:42<Kebianizao|work>jm_: don't you thind those kind of messages should be suppressed?
07:43<tont>Jm_: is loaded ... lsmod | grep acpi:
07:43<tont>acpi_cpufreq 9096 0
07:43<tont>freq_table 4512 3 acpi_cpufreq,cpufreq_ondemand,cpufreq_stats
07:43<tont>processor 31176 2 acpi_cpufreq,thermal
07:43<jm_>Kebianizao|work: nope
07:43<twb>jm_: grub legacy doesn't support RAID1, except via a Dirty Hack which makes it just use one of the nodes as if it wasn't RAIDed.
07:43<jm_>tont: check /proc/acpi - you should see various files in there
07:44<twb>Er, md RAID1, I mean.
07:44<Baggy>jm_: it seems that no matter how much I delete, "df" prints 0 bytes Available..
07:44<jm_>JustSoul2: see above starting with "jm: grub ..."
07:44<twb>tont: is acpid installed and running?
07:44<jm_>Baggy: how big are the files you are deleting?
07:44<azeem>Baggy: it's probably the root quota regime you're in
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07:45<azeem>Baggy: see whether the Used count goes dow
07:45<twb>Baggy: make sure you're calling df on the right filesystem
07:45<Kebianizao|work>jm_: this is the whole vg log (520kB), what about the error on line 537?
07:46<tont>twb: yes..
07:46<jm_>Kebianizao|work: hmm can't access that URL here
07:46<tont>root 2887 0.0 0.1 2372 1268 ? Ss 12:00 0:00 /usr/sbin/acpid -c /etc/acpi/events -s /var/run/acpid.socket
07:46<azeem>jm_: without the ,
07:46<tont>105 3280 0.0 0.0 2220 948 ? S 12:00 0:00 hald-addon-acpi: listening on acpid socket /var/run/acpid.socket
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07:46<Kebianizao|work>jm_: sorry,
07:46<jm_>azeem: yup, tried that too
07:46<Kebianizao|work>thanks azeem
07:47<jm_>Kebianizao|work: yeah it's probably me, I'm at work
07:47<JustSoul2>twb ?? but how I install virtual debian on md0 with 2 disks?
07:47<JustSoul2>jm_: sory, where?
07:47<jm_>JustSoul2: what twb said to me about grub ;)
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07:47<twb>jm_: oops, sorry.
07:48<twb>I'm on a VEEEERY slow tty
07:48<twb>I can't see what I'm typing.
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07:49<Kebianizao|work>jm_: :/ I think the problem is that libc-2.7 supps are not used by default
07:49<jm_>Kebianizao|work: naah, you can check .supp files - they are text files
07:50<JustSoul2>twb, jm_: mb I don't correctly explain my soft/hardware?
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07:50<Kebianizao|work>looks like only /usr/lib/valgrind/debian-libc6-dbg.supp and /usr/lib/valgrind/default.supp are being used
07:51<slapaf>JustSoul2: what kernel are you using ?
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07:53<slapaf>i had problems getting Testing to boot on VM
07:53<Kebianizao|work>nah, the suppressions I needed are not described anywhere
07:53<slapaf>had to abandone it since it required some serious changes
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07:54<jm_>Kebianizao|work: but the one on line 351 is not libc error
07:55<slapaf>JustSoul: im pretty new to debian but i found that something changed around 2.6.20/22
07:55<slapaf>about the sda1
07:55<jm_>trust me, those have been added to default suppressions long time ago (back then valgrind had a switch to skip them)
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07:58<blubberdiblub>sorry, wrong window
07:58<Kebianizao|work>jm_: ok, but where could the problem be then?
07:58<jm_>Kebianizao|work: in the application/libraries
08:00<Kebianizao|work>what about the on in the line374, this is defined in default.supp:
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08:01<Kebianizao|work>I would say they would match
08:02<Kebianizao|work>if you are curious that supp is on line 595 on default.supp
08:03<jm_>doesn't quite match mine I think
08:04<JustSoul2>Debian installed on software md0 [raid1 sda1(bootable, grub)+sdb1(not bootable), mirror], sda crashed, machine still working on sdb1. I have new sd, but hotplug is not recomended. I have 44KB data of old sda. Iif I just copy them to new sd, system will not boot (test on VM).
08:04<Kebianizao|work>valgrind 3.3.0-1 here
08:04<jm_>yeah I use Etch, so it's a bit different
08:05<jm_>Kebianizao|work: but according to my (very limited) knowledge it's not exact match and that's why it's reported
08:05<Kebianizao|work>jm_: I wish there were a VG irc channel
08:05<jm_>Kebianizao|work: might be worth checking it out with maintainers
08:06<Kebianizao|work>jm_: ok, I think I should go to somewhere more VG centric, I think I'm asking too much from you ;)
08:06<Kebianizao|work>you can't know everything
08:06<jm_>Kebianizao|work: or ask on valgrind-users
08:07<Kebianizao|work>jm_: doesn't exists :(
08:07<jm_>Kebianizao|work: it does
08:08<jm_>Kebianizao|work: I am talking about mailing list btw, or maybe check if there's #valgrind here or on freenode
08:08<Kebianizao|work>oh, do you meean the ML?
08:08<Kebianizao|work>not much lucky with IRC, I'll go to the ML then
08:08<Kebianizao|work>thanks a lot, jm_
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08:10<jeremiah>When I run apt-get upgrade in lenny/sid, it says it is holding some packages back.
08:11<jm_>!held back
08:11<dpkg>it has been said that kept back is when packages have not been upgraded even though newer versions are available. This happens if dependencies cannot be resolved, packages are on hold or you used "upgrade" not "dist-upgrade" and new packages need to be installed. To investigate, "apt-get -s install <kept-package>". Also see
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08:11<jeremiah>Thanks jm_
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08:13<jeremiah>But one really doesn't do a 'dist-upgrade' under lenny/sid does one?
08:13<jm_>you can
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08:14<themill>jeremiah: to get aptitude/apt-get to install/remove packages to meet new dependencies, you have to tell it to do a dist-upgrade not just an upgrade.
08:15<jeremiah>But what kind of upgrade is occurring? I thought I was just getting the newest of the new, not upgrading to a new version. I am obviously confused here.
08:15<jm_>because dist-upgrade is less strict
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08:15<jm_>you would yes
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08:17<jeremiah>I thought that when you run unstable (i.e. lenny/sid) you are running from a repository of debs which have just come from 'experimental'
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08:17<jm_>it doesn't matter, you can still run dist-upgrade
08:17<jeremiah>Those packages in 'experimental' are there for a sort of smoke test for about ten days, then the slither into lenny/sid
08:17<dpkg>dist-upgrade is a command to apt-get which will attempt to do intelligent dependency handling (as opposed to upgrade"). It will install new packages and clobber old ones as needed. Do not blindly use dist-upgrade. man apt-get, and read carefully. see <why not dist upgrade> <woody->sarge> or <sarge->etch>
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08:18<jeremiah>So dist-upgrade is used to install packages which introduce significant changes to the overall system?
08:18<twb>jeremiah: AIUI experimental packages do not auto-migrate to Sid (unlike unstable->testing)
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08:19<themill>jeremiah: you're understanding of experimental/unstable/testing/stable is wrong.
08:19<jeremiah>twb: ah, okay.
08:19<jeremiah>themill: I see, I thought that might be the case. :)
08:19<twb>In general, you run Stable for mission critical systems, Testing for workstations that you don't care about, and Unstable if you know what you're doing.
08:19<themill>dpkg: dist-upgrade is also <etch->lenny>
08:19<dpkg>okay, themill
08:19<slapaf>justsoul2: VM has problems booting 2.6.19+ , think it has something to do with change from /dev/hda to /dev/sda, but i could be wrong
08:20<twb>slapaf: VM as in VMware?
08:20<jm_>slapaf: that sounds like libata driver being used instead of old pata driver - not very hard to fix
08:20<slapaf>twb: yes VMware
08:20<twb>I'm running 2.6.22-3-amd64 on VMware right now
08:20<themill>!waiting for the root filesystem
08:20<dpkg>If you've recently upgraded your kernel and your system hangs at "waiting for the root filesystem", this may be from the libata transition. /dev/hd? disks might now be known as /dev/sd?. At the grub menu, press e to edit the entry, change the ROOT= part, then press b to boot. You need to edit your /boot/grub/menu.lst and perhaps also your /etc/fstab. Also ask me about <can't mount root>
08:21<jeremiah>twb: Well I like to think I know what I am doing, but mostly I use unstable in a chroot to do packaging.
08:21<slapaf>jm: ok, when i tried it failed, but guess i didnt try hard enough :)
08:21<twb>jeremiah: cowbuilder is your friend
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08:21<themill>twb: when it's not broken :(
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08:22<JustSoul2>slapaf: problem is not in VM, I have real server with real problem
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08:22<slapaf>twb: ok, did you just do the changes themill just showed ?
08:22<jm_>JustSoul2: but copying just 44k of your disk will not make it bootable
08:22<themill>twb: last I looked, the etch cowdancer could no longer work with a sid chroot.... a backported cowdancer solved that though.
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08:23<slapaf>justsoul2: ok, thought you were asking bout boot problem on VM
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08:23<twb>themill: bleh, I haven't used Etch in years for building packages
08:23<matteo>how are you?
08:23<dpkg>peachy, matteo
08:24<JustSoul2>jm_: now i know it. slapaf: VM I use only for testing
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08:24<twb>slapaf: I think he's trying to say that he has a degraded md RAID1 array of two nodes, and that he only has GRUB installed on the first HDD, which is the one with the degraded node.
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08:24<themill>twb: well, etch is on my desktop machine with a sid-cowbuilder. But that relies on etch's cowdancer...
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08:24<matteo>where do you live?
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08:24<twb>themill: I don't have the patience to run Etch on my workstations.
08:24<twb>mankod: just the facts, ma'am.
08:24<twb>Oops, bad completion.
08:25<twb>Stupid matteo.
08:25<themill>twb: ? I don't have the patience to deal with a moving target...
08:26<twb>Yes, but when I run Etch I'm continually made aware of all the bugs that have been fixed since the release.
08:26<themill>twb: ahh yes... I do have quite a bit from backports on my laptop ;)
08:26<twb>Yeah, that's what I mean
08:26<twb>I end up backporting all the apps I run
08:27<twb>And I didn't used to know about, so I was backporting by hand using apt-get -b source
08:27<themill>twb: if it's not on I probably don't care... (except cowdancer which was a trivial backport)
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08:30<jeremiah>twb: I have very few problems with unstable, what do you need patience for with Etch?
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08:32<twb>jeremiah: well, I run unstable on my home machine because I know what I'm doing.
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08:32<twb>At work I run testing on my workstation because ICBF fixing e.g. bootloader hijinks when I'm, y'know, working.
08:33<jm_>heh I have my workstation always on, would not run into such issues
08:33<jeremiah>At work we _have_ to use SuSE. Ugh.
08:33<twb>jeremiah: steal deploy!
08:34<themill>chroot.... :)
08:34<twb>chroot doesn't fix kernel stupidity
08:34<jeremiah>Yeah, I am trying. But there are masses of clearcase stuff that gets borked without the SuSE patches.
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08:34<twb>Ew, clearcase
08:35<jeremiah>I know but it is everywhere.
08:35<themill>there's not too much different between most distro kernels these days. Not like there was under the 2.4 kernels
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08:35<jeremiah>People love clearcase for some strange reason. It is more powerful than CVS and SVN but so what?
08:35<jm_>I simply use clearcase on our solaris/hp-ux machines, linux version was utter crap last time I tried it
08:35<twb>jeremiah: yes, but CVS and SVN are shit
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08:36<twb>darcs, git, hg
08:36<jeremiah>SVN is okay, git is overkill for stuff like perl
08:36<jeremiah>I use git a lot, and I like it, but SVN is just fine for perl scripts and modules.
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08:38<neosix>Hello! I have strange problem with openoffice writer. When I try to highlite some words, popup menu wan't disappear anymore. It is very annoying. What is the problem?
08:40<twb>I have had that problem with for years
08:40<twb>It seems to assume NETWM
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08:41<twb>And that e.g. stupid popup toolbars will be placed where it requests them to be placed
08:41<twb>Solution: LaTeX!
08:41<SpeedyG>hi, anyone here know of a good screen-capture kinda program that can also capture audio ? (I need to rip some site's movie but cant find a filename anywhere.. )
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08:42<twb>SpeedyG: um, that would be stupid
08:42<phoohb>SpeedyG: Mplayer can also play streams and flash..
08:42<jm_>SpeedyG: flash movie or so?
08:42<jm_>there are lots of tools to download those
08:42<twb>SpeedyG: you should dump the incoming streams before demuxing and decoding them, to avoid lossage.
08:42<neosix>twb: thanks man!
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08:44<phoohb>SpeedyG: asdf movie??
08:44<SpeedyG>yes, asf-stream thingy
08:44<phoohb>why not call it 1234 or qwer?
08:44<neosix>twb: I downloaded tonight texmacs, but fonts are blur
08:44<jm_>use mplayer to dump the stream to disk
08:45<neosix>(yesterday- not tonight :) )
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08:46<twb>ASDF is a package management system for Common Lisp.
08:46<SpeedyG>asf is mickeysofts streaming stuff iirc
08:46<twb>Sounds about right.
08:47<jm_>aka Advanced Streaming Format
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08:55<JustSoul2>Good evening. good bye.
08:55<JustSoul2>.nick JustSoul_away
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09:11<padski>I have a machine with "Your current time zone is set to Unknown"
09:11<padski>where is the setting ?
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09:12<jm_>/etc/localtime IIRC
09:13<twb>dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
09:13<jm_>or tzconfig
09:13<padski>yes, thanks
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09:15<padski>msg dpkg timezone
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09:15<padski>oops :-)
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09:31<Baggy>Back, had to run n take care of something. When I delete something the number of used bytes decreases, but the amount of available space is still zero :( Is this a linux virus or something?
09:32<jm_>Baggy: no, reserved block count stuff
09:33<Baggy>jm_: what might be the cause? and how can it be fixed?
09:33<jm_>Baggy: dumpe2fs to find current value, tune2fs to modify it
09:33<jm_>default is 5% of fs size
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09:34<jm_>Baggy: but it still means your fs is > 95% full
09:34<Dr_O>Did debian 4.0r2 (etch update 2) release a new netboot.tar.gz? if so where can I find it? I have looked in the normal place on the mirrors and it still seems to be the 4.0r1 netboot.tar.gz. The press release leads me to believe there is a new netboot.tar.gz but I can't find it! Any ideas?
09:35<twb>Dr_O: you could try
09:36<Dr_O>twb: date stamp 15/06/2007 (i'm i386... but same result)
09:36<Dr_O>4.0r2 was released 2007-12-27
09:36<twb>So I guess unless #d-b gives you different info, there's no new netboot.tgz (yet)
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09:37<padski>why would I see "init: Trying to re-exec init"
09:38<Dr_O>twb: strange... thanks!
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09:38<twb>padski: I get that all the time
09:38<padski>twb: why ?
09:39<twb>padski: I think it's to do with upgrading something exciting line sysvinit
09:40<padski>twb: ah! thanks. looks like libc in this case.
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09:51<Baggy>jm_: I don't have any of the tools you mentioned :( do you think it will help to do a fsck?
09:53<azeem>Baggy: /sbin/tune2fs -l /dev/foo
09:55<twb>Rather than telling Baggy to unreserve root blocks, why not have him actually find out what's using all the space, then delete it?
09:57<Baggy>twb: the problem is that even though I delete stuff, freeing up disk space, that free space is not detected as free
09:57<Baggy>or available..
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09:58<Baggy>azeem: thanks
09:58<twb>Baggy: and these files you're deleting are owned by root?
09:58<Usuario>hello, a question, it is possible to install linux from a sd card?
09:58<twb>Usuario: it's possible to install Debian using a USB key. That's a USB mass-storage device; I don't know how you're connecting to a SD card.
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09:59<Baggy>twb: they have to be owned by root?
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10:00<twb>Baggy: if the files you're deleting are NOT owned by root, then the reserved blocks issue is totally irrelevant
10:00<Usuario>twb: i have a eeepc and want to change its OS. The only removable store i have i a sd card.
10:00<Kebianizao|work>Usuario: the problem will be booting with it, but if possible, there shouldn't be any problem
10:00<twb>Baggy: please pastebin the output of `dh -h'
10:01<Usuario>just copying a netinst cd iso to my sd card is enough ?
10:01<twb>Usuario: no, silly
10:02<twb>ISO images are for CD-ROMs. They don't contain a USB bootloader
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10:02<twb>Usuario: read the documentation in the installation-guide-amd64 package (also available on somewhere obvious)
10:03<Usuario>twb: Thanks!
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10:09<Baggy>twb: Thanks, that cleared things up =) it's working now. I need to do some reading about the linux filesystem, though..
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10:10<Baggy>azeem & jm_: Thanks =)
10:10<twb>Baggy: uh, what?
10:10<twb>02:00 <twb> Baggy: please pastebin the output of `dh -h'
10:10<twb>Baggy: I'm still waiting for that
10:11<Baggy>twb: I now got 1,4GB disk space available =)
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10:15<twb>Baggy2: now try `du -x --max-depth 3 / | sort -n'
10:16<twb>...or variations thereof. It will take a while to run.
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10:17<twb>Baggy2: if you have X running, you can also try `baobab' or `filelight', which are MUCH easier to interpret.
10:19<Baggy>twb: what a great tool! I had no idea
10:19<twb>Ya, it is the big win.
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10:23<Baggy>twb: if I run chown on certain folders so that they are owned by an ordinary user, that will make more space "available" for root right?
10:23<twb>Baggy: noooooo
10:23<twb>Baggy: that would be Very Dumb
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10:26<Baggy>twb: well, that depends on the folders, right? say someone extracting something as root by "accident".. it will work with chown in theory?
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10:27<themill>Baggy, no, that won't work. Root is not subject to the 5% reserved blocks restriction; chowning files can't make more space available to root.
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10:27<twb>Baggy: ext3 by default reserves 5% of the disk for root. This *only* applies to ext3 filesystems.
10:28<themill>and ext2
10:28<twb>The idea is that if /home is on the same filesystem as /, dumb users can't fill up /home and prevent logins and logging and reboots and suchlike
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10:28<twb>If the other 95% is full, you probably won't even be allowed to chown root-owned files to a non-root user.
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10:29<CrazyZ>which is the first Linux kernel witch the tcp/ip stack?
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10:31<Baggy>Thanks guys, I was not aware of this.
10:31<Dr_O>Baggy: I think the reserved blosks thing is a bit of a red-herring in your case: though worth understanding in the long run. Your problem seemed to be that as root you deleted files and still have a full disk. This means either something is filling the disk up fast... a rogue log file or the like... or that the files you have deleted are still being accessed (open file handles in a running process). If it is the second case (open file handle) then the
10:31<Dr_O> deleted file will not free up space on disk untill the runnign process closes the file.
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10:35<twb>Dr_O: good point
10:35*Dr_O has been bitten by open file handles before!
10:36<Baggy>Interesting :)
10:37<twb>Having said that, inode semantics are MUUUUCH better than the way Windows does it
10:38<twb>That is, locking files instead of inodes, so you can't upgrade system files without a whole reboot/rename dance
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10:40<Dr_O>Baggy: as twb suggested I'd find out where large files are and try deleting them. If that does not free up space.. or it is eaten up then you need to use some other tools to find what is eating the space, tools like: "find" with argments to show you what has changed in the last few mins.
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10:40<Dr_O>Also "lsof" may help you find open file handles.
10:40<twb>Hell, he could even just reboot
10:41<twb>That'd blow away ALL stale inodes
10:41<dpkg>You want to reboot for WHAT?? If it's not a new kernel or a hardware change, you probably don't need to reboot. Ask me about <qotd2>.
10:41<themill>where's the fun in rebooting?
10:41<twb>It's easier than explaining invoke-rc.d
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10:42<Dr_O>A reboot would close file handles... but won't find the source of the problem... depends on local conditions: do you want a quick fix or to understand the problem?
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10:43<twb>Dr_O: good point again
10:43<twb>If the problem is chronic rather than acute, the reboot will merely relieve immediate symptoms
10:43<Dr_O>themill: the fun is seeing if your bootloader still works after a 200 day up time and 3 grub updates!
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10:44*Dr_O still slightly prefers LILO but aknowledges he is a freak!
10:44<twb>I use grub2 on md raid on lvm. Every reboot is like that
10:45<twb>Because a separate /boot partition outside of LVM is aesthetically nauseasting
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10:47<Dr_O>twb: you are a sukker for punishment!
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10:50<Dr_O>ruby: dried grass
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10:51<stew>twb: grub2 can have /boot on lvm? interesting
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10:53<Dr_O>stew: I think it has to be a simple linear LV though. I read a bit about it but never sounded usefull enough to experiment!
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10:57<niwt>how can I keep network messages out of the system log and in their own logfile?
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10:59<stew>niwt: which messages?
10:59<niwt>connect attempts from a stupid XP box
10:59<stew>niwt: can you give an example?
10:59<niwt>and also from firewall (arno)
10:59<niwt>hang on
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11:00<stew>niwt: for firewall the best you can do is to change the syslog logging level, or maybe use ULOG, but ULOG would be an undertaking
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11:02<stew>niwt: or, you could switch to syslog-ng, which would let your filter the messages based on who is generating them, not just by facility and level
11:02<niwt>Jan 9 07:39:00 localhost kernel: Connection attempt (PRIV): IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=ff:blahblah SRC=192.168.blah DST=192.168.blah LEN=78 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=128 ID=3286 PROTO=UDP SPT=137 DPT=137 LEN=58
11:02<niwt>that's the sanitized version - I'm probably too paranoid
11:02<niwt>oh, that sounds good
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11:02<stew>niwt: you probably want syslog-ng
11:03<@weasel>well, stop using the LOG target in netfilter
11:03<@weasel>use ULOG and install ulogd
11:03<@weasel>also, get a real hostname
11:03<niwt>why real hostname?
11:03<@weasel>do you don't look like a total idiot? :)
11:04<niwt>I like the name "debian"
11:04<niwt>remiinds me which linux I'm running
11:05<niwt>if I install syslog-ng, should I uninstall syslogd at the same time?
11:06<Dr_O>niwt: aptitude should do that for you!
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11:17<FullMon-T>I need help with my IRC client.
11:19<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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11:36<pleb2>Hi all
11:36<pleb2>what program can i use to capture audio from my soundcards line in, into an MP3 file???
11:36-!-freealan [] has joined #debian
11:36<pleb2>we recorded a speaker at a conference on a minidisk player , with permission
11:36<pleb2>and we need it transfered to digital format
11:36<makke>audacity + lame is very popular
11:37<[Shadow`]>yes audacity
11:37<pleb2>does audacity have support for lame built in?? i may have lame already as a result of kino
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11:38<pleb2>oki i'll try run audacity thanks guys!
11:38<FullMon-T>I am having issue getting my irc bouncer configured.
11:38-!-hollo [~hollo@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:39<JasonS>FullMon-T: try asking in your clients irc channel?
11:39<@weasel>bouncers are horribly anyway
11:39<FullMon-T>JasonS: Nobody is in #Konversation
11:40<JasonS>now theres a hint heh, try on freenode?
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11:40<@weasel>why not get a real client and run it in screen?
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11:40<FullMon-T>weasel: any suggestions?
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11:41<Jadestorm>hi folk, is this a good spot to ask some questions about package development or is there a more appropriate place? (I've already built a package, but i'm running into an issue that i'd like to ask about)
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11:41<FullMon-T>JasonS: Nobody in freenode's #Konversation is being very helpful. Everybody is at work.
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11:41<themill>Jadestorm: #debian-java for your java stuff or #debian-mentors for more general questions
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11:41<FullMon-T>weasel: how does it work?
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11:41<@weasel>quite well
11:41<@weasel>thanks for asking
11:41<Jadestorm>thanks themill ;D this one isn't particularly java related like the last stuff, i'll hit up debian-java thanks!
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11:42<FullMon-T>weasel: and it has anonymizing capabilities?
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11:42<@weasel>FullMon-T: erm, what?
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11:42<@weasel>this is irc, not a strip club
11:43<@weasel>!greet albertosapiens
11:43<dpkg>Tag, albertosapiens
11:43<JasonS>weasel: its not a strip club? :(
11:43<@weasel>JasonS: no, sorry to disappoint you. tho mikegrb might be able to help out
11:43<FullMon-T>weasel: can I proxy the shiit out of it?
11:43<@weasel>you? no.
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11:44<@Ganneff>its an irc client, not a proxy.
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11:45<danf_1979>Hi guys, where can I found the file to make XDM start with XFCE? I had a problem with KDE4, so I have no window manager right now. XFCE is installed, but XDM starts with KDE4 automatically
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11:45<FullMon-T>weasel: So then, If I use irssi and configure it with bip, would I have an anonymous connection?
11:45<JasonS>FullMon-T: no one cares what you do on irc
11:46<FullMon-T>JasonS: I do.
11:46<@weasel>also, I don't know what bibp is
11:46<@weasel>chances are it's something that nobody here wants anything to do with
11:46<JasonS>heh, paranoia will destroy ya or something like that, i used to run it through a bouncer when i was young and foolish and had time to kill
11:48<@weasel>FullMon-T: irc proxies are silly
11:48<@weasel>and people using them most often either don't know what they are doing or are stupid, abusing script kids
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11:51*mikegrb looks around
11:51<FullMon-T>weasel: I have higher ambitions that being an abusive script kiddie.
11:52<JasonS>FullMon-T: doesnt make teh irc proxies any less silly FullMon-T
11:52<JasonS>higher ambitions?
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11:53<FullMon-T>If I wanted to be hated, i WOULD BECOME AN OPS...
11:53<FullMon-T>Sorry, caps.
11:53<FullMon-T>you know, kick someone, and then they hate you. Or tell someone to calm down, then they hate you...
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11:55<FullMon-T>people hate script kiddies just because they're so damn obnoxious, and arorgant... I say being an ops would get you on a lot more shit-lists than being an idiot kiddie.
11:56<@Ganneff>now. topic is debian. so please rant elsewhere (like #moocows) and come back to topic.
11:56<@weasel>or just go and die
11:56<FullMon-T>what is moocows?
11:56<@Ganneff>go away, you small little luser, kthxbye!!1
11:56<@Ganneff>a channel.
11:57<FullMon-T>could you guys atleast point me in a direction that would help me with iirc?
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12:00<stew>Ganneff: if you feel that things have degraded to the point where you are going to start calling someone names, can't you just remove them from the channel instead?
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12:01<@Ganneff>stew: you now what a joke is? it was simply a reply to his "shit-list" bla...
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12:01<stew>Ganneff: i know what a joke is. you were not appearing to be joking
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12:04<Guest2614>anybody have super cow powers?
12:05<FullMon-T>Well that's on topic.
12:05<dpkg>mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you could be too; join us all! type apt-get moo. aplay /usr/lib/openoffice/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav
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12:05<FullMon-T>Guest2614: #moocows
12:05*weasel raises an eyebrow
12:05<Guest2614>er...dont know if I can apt get w/ knoppix live dvd
12:06<JasonS>Guest2614: wrong channel
12:06<azeem>Guest2614: please ask #knoppix on
12:06<@weasel>he didn't even ask anything yet
12:06<Guest2614>hey man knoppix defaulted to this clannel
12:06<Guest2614>besides knoppix is debian
12:06<@weasel>that's because whoever made it is an idiot
12:06<@weasel>no, it's not.
12:06<JasonS>Guest2614: actually its not
12:06<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distro which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. unofficial:, or <Debian-live> is the Debian equiv for publishing live systems
12:06<Guest2614>i stand corrected
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12:07<Guest2614>i thought it is a derivitted
12:07<Guest2614>or whathaveyou
12:07<@weasel>it is. therefore it's not debian.
12:07<themill>!tell Guest2614 about based on debian
12:07<@weasel>and accordingly we do not support it
12:07<azeem>W 23
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12:12<Guest2614>oh great gods of debian you have enlightened me. I bid farewell in search of the truth be it debian , knoppix or zeros and ones in the billions.
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12:16<alexander>Hi all! Users in LAN get access to internet through firewall which check ipaddress+hwaddress. Howto prevent situation when user change his hwaddr and get access privleges for another computer?
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12:18<riboflavin>does anyone know why my gdm doesn't appear when i restart my laptop?i have to login in console and use startx
12:19<dkr>alexander: you could run arpwatchd so you can be notified of mac address changes on your lan
12:19<@weasel>riboflavin: is it installed?
12:19<@weasel>riboflavin: what happens when you say /etc/init.d/gdm start
12:20<riboflavin>the default login manager is gdm right?
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12:20<riboflavin>or is it xdm?
12:20<riboflavin>nothing happen with that command
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12:22<@weasel>riboflavin: sh -x /etc/init.d/gdm start
12:23<alexander>dkr, thank you, i'll try
12:23<riboflavin>can i paste here?
12:23<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics.
12:23<dkr>alexander: it's not a preventitive measure, but knowing what is going on is always useful. :)
12:24<alexander>I understand :)
12:24<dkr>the only way to prevent I think would be at the switch level
12:24<alexander>and what about using static macs for ips in arp?
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12:25<@weasel>riboflavin: you lied to me.
12:25<dkr>that wouldn't make a difference in the case you described of someone setting their mac address to a valid already existing one
12:25<@weasel>riboflavin: you said gdm was installed.
12:25<papilucio>hello, I am struggling to build a jackd package from the svn tree, but I fail on anything I try. I am new to debian packaging and any help would be appreciated...
12:25<themill>riboflavin: that's claiming that the gdm binary is not installed.
12:25<lupine>alexander: switch to a sensible authentication scheme
12:26<lupine>for instance, run a radius server
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12:26<themill>lupine: radius... sensible?
12:27<lupine>well, it's the industry standard
12:27<flamsmark>isn't radius the standard
12:27<dkr>so is microsoft on the desktop
12:27<lupine>and FreeRADIUS is pretty easy to set up
12:27<riboflavin>then how can the gdm is in /etc/init.d ?
12:27<themill>isn't radius Yet Another Unencrypted Authentication system?
12:27<@weasel>riboflavin: it's removed, not purged.
12:28<flamsmark>themill - i didn't know that was capitalised
12:28<themill>flamsmark: in the finest tradition of Yet Another ....
12:28<@weasel>themill: radius cannot be _yet another_ of anything
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12:28<@weasel>themill: radios is _the_ system.
12:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 338] by debhelper
12:29<themill>I didn't think it was possible to do properly encrypted radius auth. Is that the case? (none of this shared secret bollox that's trivial to break)
12:30<flamsmark>really? how is a shared secret breakable, themill?
12:30<papilucio>could someone give me tips to pack jackd from svn, please ? I am struggling with that for several hours now...
12:30<flamsmark>isn't that what almost all encryption is based on, themill?
12:30<lupine>themill: TKIP is hardly unencrypted authentication
12:31<flamsmark>can't you use aes anyway?
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12:31<themill>flamsmark: I was under the impression that radius shared secrets had been shown to be weak because they are used and not rotated so you amass a large amount of data to work out the shared secret. (same problem as WEP)
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12:32<lupine>themill: radius can be configured to do all sorts of things. so saying 'radius is weak because <encryption implementation detail here>' is misleading
12:32<themill>lupine: ok. good to hear.
12:33<flamsmark>no, the reason that wep is weak is because the initiation vectors use a poor hashing algorithm, themill
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12:36<dpkg>from memory, non-free is a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed on your system, ask me about <vrms>. For the Non-free tracking system, see
12:36<flamsmark>!non-free sources
12:36<dpkg>non-free sources is, like, edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then apt-get update, or but bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. This may have onerous terms; check the licenses.
12:36<lupine>so anyway, yeah. radius + captive portal would be my approach. maybe something like CoovaChilli
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12:38<dpkg>well, sources is /etc/apt/sources.list is the file which stores a list of repositories that apt-get/aptitude use for downloading packags. "man sources.list" for a description of its format. If you are using sarge you can use apt-setup to alter this file, also ask me about <mirrors>, <apt-setup>, <apt-spy>
12:38<dpkg>i heard debian mirrors is or | ask me about <apt-spy> or <apt-setup> | to make a mirror, see
12:38<themill>flamsmark: /msg dpkg msg the bot
12:39<flamsmark>thanks, sorry
12:39<flamsmark>do you happen to know how i can get some more ubuntu-like sources?
12:39<lupine> has all sorts of ubuntu-like sources
12:40<flamsmark>debianised ones, or purely ububtu ones?
12:40<themill>flamsmark: what do you mean by "ubuntu-like sources"?
12:40<lupine>well, they're ubuntu sources. What do you think?
12:41<flamsmark>i'm looking for non-free [drivers for my gpu, among oter] but i seem to have found those, and things like universe and multiverse
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12:41<@weasel>why would you want universe?
12:41<@weasel>universe has nothing that debian doesn't have. the only difference is that the quality of packages in ubuntu's universe is crap because they don't support it
12:42<themill>flamsmark: many are in the archive in the non-free section. add contrib non-free to your sources.list lines. Also /msg dpkg dmme
12:42-!-Df_Yz [~Df_Yz@] has joined #debian
12:42<Df_Yz>Hello all!
12:42<flamsmark>is ubuntu's universe something like debain's basic packages then?
12:42<Df_Yz>Is there a russian channel?
12:42<dpkg>rumour has it, ru is Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
12:43<Df_Yz>weasel: thx
12:43<azeem>W 20
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12:44<@weasel>maybe you should fix your irc client config, azeem.
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12:44<flamsmark>are there any other bits i should be looking at [like multimedia] ?
12:44<azeem>weasel: to automatically insert / when I forget? ;)
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12:44<themill>azeem: yeah... that would be a neat trick ;)
12:44<@weasel>to map window switching to something other than a / command
12:45<@weasel>like esc+<key>
12:45<dpalacio>flamsmark: contrib non-free and
12:45<azeem>that's cumbersome for chans above 20-something, but yeah, will think about it
12:45<@weasel>no, it isn't
12:45<flamsmark>thanks dpalacio
12:46<flamsmark>and to get testing and/or unstable?
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12:48<dpalacio>flamsmark: what do you mean?
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12:49<flamsmark>what are the names of the unstable packages?
12:49<flamsmark>main unstable ?
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12:50<@weasel>flamsmark: your question doesn't make much sense, but I bet what you want to know can be found in many places on the web
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12:51<flamsmark>sorry, it was badly phrased, i mean, the line neccessary to add unstable to my sources
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12:51<themill>flamsmark: you can't mix packages from unstable into a stable system (in ubuntu-speak, that's like mixing gutsy and feisty or whatever they're called)
12:51<flamsmark>is it <url> etch main unstable ?
12:52<flamsmark>okay, how do i swtich to unstable?
12:52<@weasel>flamsmark: if you have to ask, you really shouldn't.
12:52<@weasel>flamsmark: you should stick with stable, aka etch.
12:53<dpkg>the <unstable> version of Debian. Commonly backronymed Still In Development. It's actually named for the destructive neighbour kid in Toy Story. Ask me about <unstable>. Do not use sid unless you have the skill to find your way out of the mess that broken packages may put you in. It will never be released. See <sid faq>
12:53<flamsmark>and that was the moment when i reread the line of the faq to discover that unstable is called sid
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12:54<themill>flamsmark: seriously... just stick with etch.
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12:55<themill>flamsmark: specifically... what is it that you are missing from debian etch.
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12:55<flamsmark>there is nothing that i can think of that i am missing
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12:56<themill>then just stick with etch and be happy :)
12:56<JasonS>flamsmark: then be happy heh
12:56<themill>if there is something that you are missing, then come back and ask us about backports, debian-multimedia and non-free
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12:57<flamsmark>backports are things that will go from testing to stable on the next release?
12:57<twb>Not strictly.
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12:58<themill>flamsmark: they are packages from testing that have been recompiled so that they can be installed within stable. A different version will be used for the next stable release.
12:58<twb>Depending on how restrictively you use the term, a backport is where you take the source package (.dsc, .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz) from release N+1 and compile it into a .deb in release N.
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12:59<flamsmark>so its something that's retroactively released into the current stable version?
12:59<twb>Because Lenny has not been released, you could backport to Etch software that contains release-critical bugs that wouldn't be in the released version of Lenny.
12:59<twb>backports aren't part of a release.
13:00<flamsmark>but they are intended to be used in the current, not the next release
13:00<twb>backports are intended for the particular release against which they are compiled.
13:00<themill>flamsmark: yes, but with caution that they are unofficial and unsupported
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13:00<twb>There's no reason you couldn't theoretically have backports to oldstable (currently Sarge) or testing (from unstable).
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13:01<twb>I guess is mostly/entirely backports to stable from whatever happened to be in testing at the time.
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13:01<themill>occasionally a package from unstable, but usually testing
13:02<flamsmark>and does 'etch main contrib' include 'etch main' or should i have both lines?
13:02<flamsmark>and similarly etch main contrib non-free
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13:03<themill>flamsmark: man 5 sources.list
13:03<twb>flamsmark: you are misunderstanding the format of sources.list
13:03<themill> deb uri distribution [component1] [component2] [...]
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13:03<twb>main, contrib and non-free are three separate components.
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13:04<twb>Policy governs what kinds of relationships can exist between packages in different components, for example packages in main MUST NOT depend on any package in non-free.
13:04<flamsmark>i'll read the man
13:04<posix>why does Lenny use ifconfig as opposed to iproute?
13:05<alexander>Can dhcpd run some script when give ip to some hwaddr?
13:05<twb>posix: I've used ifconfig for as long as I can remember. Certainly I use it on Etch and RHEL4.
13:05<twb>alexander: that depends which dhcpd you mean
13:05<twb>alexander: the DHCP server dnsmasq certainly can.
13:06<posix>twb: but iproute is superior by a factor of ten gajillion?
13:06<twb>dnsmasq --dhcp-script=/usr/local/bin/foo
13:06<flamsmark>i'm not sure i follow
13:07<twb>posix: aptitude install iproute?
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13:07<flamsmark>main is a set of packages, yes?
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13:07<twb>flamsmark: yes.
13:07<flamsmark>but main contrib is another set of packages
13:07<@weasel>no, right.
13:07<@weasel>only badly said
13:08<twb>`main' and `contrib' are sets of packages.
13:08<JasonS>flamsmark: 3 seperate set of packages
13:08<flamsmark>main, contrib and non-free
13:08<themill>flamsmark: yes. They are three disjoint sets of packages.
13:08<twb>`main contrib' is the set { x : x ∈ Main ∪ Contrib }
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13:09<twb>LaTeX input methods ftw
13:09<flamsmark>and i'd need to write main contrib because contrib can depend on main?
13:09-!-recurse [] has quit []
13:09<twb>(Unfortunately Unicode doesn't have a codepoint for the \LaTeX glyphs.)
13:09<themill>flamsmark: together they form a distribution such as etch which can be all used properly together (compatible versions, compatible compilers etc)
13:09<twb>flamsmark: you could simply write `contrib'
13:10<alexander>twb, thank you! ;) so if I run script which check for arpwatch log and if everything is ok will apply some rules for ip
13:10<twb>alexander: I do not understand.
13:10<flamsmark>twb, but that wouldn't be a good plan
13:10<themill>flamsmark: you *must* have main
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13:10<twb>You don't need `main' if you don't want to ever upgrade packages in main
13:10<alexander>twb, sorry for my english
13:10<JasonS>flamsmark: and probily should have contrib but you don't hanve to have non-free
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13:10<themill>twb: or install packages... you have to had main for installation at least :)
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13:11<twb>themill: right.
13:11<flamsmark>but i believe that some of the driver i want are non-free
13:11<themill>flamsmark: e.g. I have: deb etch main contrib non-free.
13:11<themill>flamsmark: that is parsed as: deb uri (=http://../) distro(=etch) components={main, contrib, non-free}
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13:12<flamsmark>i grok this now
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13:13<flamsmark>do multimedia and backports both have contrib and non-free components?
13:14<azeem>flamsmark: why don't you research that yourself?
13:14<themill>dmm only has "main" but everything is really non-free....
13:14<azeem>you can browse those servers
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13:18<twb>themill: IMO dmm should really only have non-free/
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13:26<jaevans3>NICK ja3000
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13:28<themill>twb: agreed
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13:34<ameyer>some things on dmm could fit in free, to be honest
13:34<ameyer>but yeah, it's mostly non-free
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13:40<riboflavin>weasel; im back.i discovered that some of my application are uninstalled gdm..and now i realize that my image viewer,and my evince was uninstalled..i dont know how and why
13:40<riboflavin>is it possible that the system uninstalled it?
13:41<themill>ameyer, twb: true... some is just patent-encumbered free software, which is a different kettle of fish entirely.
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13:43<ameyer>mp3's about to be non-encumbered, knowing Debian's release cycle, perhaps in time for Lenny+1
13:43*fxiny wonders what cup of tea comes out of a kettle of fish
13:44<twb>riboflavin: which apt frontend are you using (e.g. aptitude, synaptic)?
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13:44<ameyer>strange, I'd swear mp3's last patent expired in 2011
13:44<riboflavin>apt-get and synaptic
13:44<ameyer>now wikipedia says 2017
13:45<twb>Well, aptitude supports `markauto' flags, and will (by default) remove any packages that were installed automatically iff there are no longer installed packages keeping it (the markauto'd package) installed.
13:46-!-gurpreet [~geek@] has joined #debian
13:46<twb>That is, it does ~M!~Rdepend:~i-
13:46<twb>*That is, it does ~M!~Rdepends:~i-
13:47<twb>So for example if you installed the `gnome' metapackage and that pulled in gdm, then removing gnome will also cause gdm to be removed (again, only by default).
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13:47<ameyer>it'd be nice if everybody could move to ogg vorbis, though
13:47<riboflavin>but i didnt remove any package in a recent time
13:47<twb>Now that I think about it, if you use BOTH apt-get and aptitude, then all packages installed by apt-get are more or less markauto'd.
13:47<twb>So: don't use apt-get.
13:48-!-qeed [] has joined #debian
13:48<gurpreet>is there any way to use wildcard selection with aptitude?
13:48<riboflavin>twb, then what package manager should i use?
13:48<twb>riboflavin: you said you were using synaptic
13:48<twb>gurpreet: an example 05:46 <twb> *That is, it does ~M!~Rdepends:~i-
13:49<twb>~M [markauto'd] ~Rdepends: [dependend upon by] ~i [installed packages] - [remove]
13:49-!-SiranoDeBerzerak_NS [~draga@] has joined #debian
13:49<gurpreet>twb, no, i want to remove apt-howto-ca, apt-howto-de, apt-howto-el etc, but i am unable to use apt-howto* for this
13:50<riboflavin>for me,sometimes installing from console is much faster and easier
13:50<twb>aptitude remove ~napt-howto-.*
13:50-!-SiranoDeBerzerak_NS [~draga@] has quit []
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13:50<twb>aptitude takes REs (PCREs, I believe), not globs.
13:50<twb>Actually, I don't think you need the ~n
13:50-!-bernd_ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
13:51<twb>I think X is implicitly ~n^X$
13:51<gurpreet>twb, i never really understood ~i, ~M stuff
13:51<twb>gurpreet: upi dpm
13:51<twb>gurpreet: you don't use mutt?
13:51<gurpreet>twb, no
13:51-!-hall [] has joined #debian
13:51<twb>They're a bit like GNU short switches, only with ~ instead of hyphen.
13:52<gurpreet>twb, mutt = text based multireader, i've no idea what it do
13:52<fxiny>shame on you gur ;)
13:52<twb>mutt is an MUA
13:52-!-henrik_iv [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:52<gurpreet>gurpreet, shame on you
13:52<twb>aptitude's pattern matching system is based on (or at least very similar to) mutt's.
13:52-!-hall [] has quit []
13:53-!-si0ux [] has quit [Quit: cd ~]
13:53<twb>It's fantastically handy for tersely doing things that would, with apt-get, require lots of backticks and apt-cacher
13:53-!-themill [] has quit [Quit: ciao!]
13:53<twb>si0ux doesn't know that `cd' = `cd ~' on modern systems :-/
13:53<fxiny>and how to search ~B :P
13:54<gurpreet>twb, that i know, thank god
13:54<kmap>Guys, a friend is facing a bug similar to this _on Debian_:
13:54<kmap>I tried kumto's remastered Etch with kernel 2.6.23
13:54<gurpreet>twb, fxiny i'll surely read about mutt, was just thinking what to do :)
13:54<kmap>What suggestion would you give to make it detect both cores of the Core 2 Duo?
13:55<twb>It doesn't detect both automagically?
13:55<gurpreet>twb, but i didn't knew "cd" != "cd ~" on earlier systems
13:55<twb>What does /proc/cpuinfo say?
13:55*kmap observes that there is NO detail of how the bug was fixed in launchpad
13:55-!-guillaume [~guillaume@] has joined #debian
13:55<twb>gurpreet: earlier systems are horrendously unixy, i.e. broken
13:55<kmap>twb: It detects both if I don't pass acpi=off. Else, it gives that error
13:55<kmap>twb: And pci=nommconf also doesn't boot
13:56*twb hates launchpad
13:56<gurpreet>fxiny, wait, why _should_ i use mutt? i just have one mail coming for me i.e. gmail
13:56<kmap>BWT, this is an install I did with acpi=off geneic.all_generic_ide=1 irqpoll
13:56<twb>I hate it more than scientology
13:56<gurpreet>fxiny, and i read it on web itself, gmail-notifier updates me on time
13:56<kmap>gurpreet: The time taken to learn mutt is worthwhile.
13:56<kmap>gurpreet: If you are subscribed to several mailing lists
13:57<kmap>twb: Should I report this to the Debian BTS?
13:57-!-drone77 [] has joined #debian
13:57<gurpreet>kmap, i will learn mutt, just to see if it can make my life easier :)
13:57<kmap>gurpreet: Worth it.
13:58-!-nido [] has joined #debian
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13:58<fxiny>gurpreet: i have 4 gmail so what ? i'm always mutting all day long . mutt+fetchmail+mailfilter+bogofilter+procmail+postix . all they go with MUTT MACRO and scores ...
13:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 350] by debhelper
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13:59<twb>kmap: I don't know.
13:59<kmap>twb: OK, I'll ask on debian-user tomorrow.
13:59<fxiny>gurpreet: i forgot mutt profile and maybe more
13:59<twb>launchpad is such a piece of shit that I always reproduce bugs I find on Ubuntu under Debian, then report them to Debian's BTS with reportbug(1).
13:59<gurpreet>twb, aptitude recognize apt-howto* and apt-howto.*, but stops after showing names of matching packages, i.e. don't perform the action on the packages
14:00<kmap>twb: I have seen Launchpad only a few times. And I really can't use it. :-(
14:00<gurpreet>fxiny, 1 gmail is enough for me :)
14:00<nido>Hello all. I've got this weird problem on my wireless. The wireless part (connecting to ssid, encryption, etc) works fine. DHCP, however does not. It sends a DHCPREQUEST, and gets a DHCPOFFER, and it keeps on sending dhcprequests
14:00<twb>No fucking way should I have to start X and a GUI browser, then *log in*, then use some dinky fucking web form to add a GPG key just so I can send a mail bug that I have to write by hand, because reportbug(1) doesn't support it's non-standard mail syntax.
14:00<kmap>twb: Or beg a neighbour. :-)
14:00-!-geresen [~geresen@] has joined #debian
14:01<twb>It is WRONG to make it hard for users to report bugs.
14:01<fxiny>gurpreet: urlview and maybe more : ahhh mutt is a religion :)
14:01<kmap>twb: The whole world uses Ubuntu, isn't it? (Joke!) :-)
14:01<flamsmark>why can't i select 1920x1200 resolution?
14:02*Tails just found out Second Life's servers are Debian powered
14:02<gurpreet>kmap, yo, child is more popular than father
14:02<kmap>gurpreet: Yeah right. The less I speak of my Ubntu horrors, the better...
14:02<fxiny>gurpreet: you can download your gmail locally so mutt could be ok even for you
14:02<twb>Of course, once you actually submit a bug to Launchpad the devs ask you inanely stupid patronizing questions, then after you respond politely and clearly, citing the answers to their questions from your original bug report, they just fucking ignore you. Then six months later someone else closes the bug with the message "nobody talked about this for three months, so obviously the bug is fixed."
14:03<twb>...but I'm not bitter.
14:03<fxiny>gurpreet: i leave gmail to iceweasel
14:03-!-y5c [] has joined #debian
14:03<twb>flamsmark: can't select that resolution *where*?
14:04<flamsmark>the screen resolution app in desktop>preferences, twb
14:04<twb>flamsmark: I don't use a GUI
14:04<gurpreet>fxiny, even though i may not be in dire need for it, i think i should learn mutt and the religion or i'll be called a heretic
14:04-!-nOp [~xxxx@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:04<twb>flamsmark: can you tell me what the process' name is?
14:04<flamsmark>i don't know how to do that
14:04<twb>It sounds like a utility for sending XRANDR requests to the X server.
14:05-!-K4k-laptop [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
14:05<twb>flamsmark: try xprop | grep WM_COMMAND, then click on the window
14:05<flamsmark>frankly, i'm not even sure that i have the right driver for my gpu
14:05-!-y5c [] has quit []
14:05<twb>flamsmark: what is the output of `lspci | grep VGA'?
14:05-!-adrian [~adrian@] has joined #debian
14:06-!-linduxed [] has joined #debian
14:06<flamsmark>nvidia unknow device, twb
14:07<flamsmark>and the xprop command didn't work
14:07-!-adrian [~adrian@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:07<twb>flamsmark: the exact output, please.
14:07<fxiny>gurpreet: bon voyage then : mutt is a trip
14:07-!-dice [] has joined #debian
14:07<twb>Also pastebin xorg.conf, or tell me the output of
14:07<twb></etc/X11/xorg.conf grep -A 10 Section.*\"Device | grep Driver
14:08<flamsmark>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Unknown device 0292 (rev a1)
14:08<gurpreet>fxiny, wait, please point me to good reading source for mutt and related stuff
14:08<flamsmark>it's Driver "nv"
14:08<twb>That is the correct driver for nvidia cards.
14:10-!-bored_ [~santhu@] has joined #debian
14:10<flamsmark>all of them?
14:11<twb>That is the correct driver for all nvidia cards.
14:11-!-zepard [] has joined #debian
14:11<gurpreet>fxiny, "mail -s <subject> <>" isn't working for me
14:11<fxiny>gurpreet: just start a couple of google links : many "related" things will follow
14:11<fxiny>gurpreet: mail ?
14:11<gurpreet>fxiny, this i took as my starting point
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14:12<flamsmark>okay, so how do i adjust my resolution, twb?
14:12-!-d [~d@] has joined #debian
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14:12<twb>flamsmark: permanently?
14:12-!-Surge [~surge@] has left #debian [Leaving]
14:12<zepard>hi people
14:13<fxiny>gurpreet: echo "test" | mail -s TestSubject
14:13<Supaplex>hi zepard. the bots are feeling left out now. ;)
14:14<gurpreet>fxiny, i ran this command, but mail seems to be lost in the wilderness of internet :)
14:14<geresen>hello friends does anybody knows helpful python pdfs or links ?
14:14-!-snowball_ [] has joined #debian
14:14<twb>geresen: you want to learn how to write Python programs?
14:14<twb>geresen: ask #python on Freenode. This is not an appropriate channel.
14:15<gurpreet>fxiny, may be smail isn't installed, thats why
14:15<ranix_>python sucks, use perl
14:15<fxiny>gurpreet: this is much better :
14:15<geresen>thanks for your help twb
14:15-!-thorben [] has joined #debian
14:15<zepard>ranix_, wow python is bad?
14:15<twb>Both suck, but discussing mistakes in language design is also offtopic.
14:15-!-visik7 [] has joined #debian
14:16-!-thorben [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:16<ranix_>I was just overcome by trolling
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14:16<fxiny>gurpreet: check out mutt scores
14:16<ranix_>sorry about that
14:16<gurpreet>fxiny, no need for smail, i've exim4 installed
14:16-!-Kulu [~Kulu@] has joined #debian
14:16-!-m0RrE [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:16<flamsmark>twb - well, i' like to be able to adjust it as i go along
14:17<gurpreet>fxiny, the link you sent is not a tutorial
14:17<flamsmark>but i have 1920x1200 screen, and there are black lines doesn the edge because i'm at 1600x1200
14:17-!-rkos [] has joined #debian
14:17<twb>flamsmark: are you IRCing from the host in question?
14:17<flamsmark>at the moment
14:17<fxiny>gurpreet: but it shows you how to configure ~/.mutt , is a good starting point
14:18<twb>Then first we should discuss how to revert the changes if we fuck up badly enough that X hangs your whole system.
14:18<bored_>hi everyone.. i tried out fully automated installation of etch today.. it worked fine and im planning on doing it for some 20 machines.. is there a nice way in which i can maintain those machines centrally?
14:18<gurpreet>fxiny, yes i will need it eventually
14:18<twb>flamsmark: do you know how to enter single user mode from the bootloader?
14:18<bored_>stuff like adding a software, etc..
14:18-!-Kulu [~Kulu@] has quit []
14:18<fxiny>gurpreet: you can do very complicated things with mutt
14:18<flamsmark>but we can cross that bridge when we come to it
14:18<gurpreet>fxiny, like?
14:18<twb>bored_: no, there are only horribly unpleasant frameworks for centralized manglement -- cfengine and puppet are probably the best known.
14:18<jthomas>can anyone tell me where WebDAV permissions are set? Committed changes by one of our programmers aren't readable by others, and they all have this problem
14:19<flamsmark>i can just log in on my laptop if this explodes, twb
14:19-!-bl4de [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:19<twb>flamsmark: OK, then.
14:19<jw>Getting error on apt-get install not recognizing the install DVD for Debian v4.0r1. Restarted same error. apt-get update and restart same error. Using synaptic package manager gives same error. How do you get past keep getting prompted to insert DVD 1????
14:19<twb>flamsmark: as root, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
14:19-!-phoohb [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:19<drone77>flamsmark, it is just a matter of backing it up...
14:19<twb>flamsmark: there are almost certainly display subsections that have a list of resolutions starting with "1600x1200"
14:19<bored_>twb: ok which one of them is better? :)
14:19<twb>bored_: mu.
14:20<bored_>twb: :)
14:20<fxiny>gurpreet: scores , macro to launch fetchmail or marking spam
14:20-!-valdyn [] has joined #debian
14:20-!-x03 [~IO@] has joined #debian
14:20-!-kmap [~kumar@] has quit [Quit: Bye for now...]
14:20<twb>However, I personally have no significant experience with either.
14:20<twb>cfengine is written in C++ and is old and ugly and badly designed.
14:20-!-dwsd [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:20<twb>puppet is written in Ruby and is new and ugly and badly designed, but makes different mistakes to cfengine.
14:21<bored_>twb: hmm so what do ppl do usually? write their own scripts?
14:21-!-atperez [~atperez@] has joined #debian
14:21<twb>bored_: yes, basically.
14:21<flamsmark>twb, yes, it looks like
14:21<twb>bored_: cfengine and puppet are overblown scripts that were written to manage large deployments
14:22<jthomas>jw: as root edit /etc/apt/sources.list and remove the line that lists the cdrom/dvd drive, or comment it out
14:22<twb>flamsmark: stick a "1920x1200" or whatever on the left
14:22<bored_>twb: fine..
14:22<twb>flamsmark: you might need a comma if there are commas there already, I don't remember
14:22<flamsmark>of each of them?
14:22<gurpreet>fxiny, still searching for some good reference, i am amazed there isn't a good howto for this in LDP
14:22<twb>flamsmark: well, really you only need it for the DefaultDepth one
14:22<flamsmark>no, they're in inverted commas
14:22<twb>" are called double quotes
14:23-!-javrod [~javrod@] has joined #debian
14:23<twb>There shouldn't be any German-style single quotes in the file.
14:23-!-K4k-laptop [~K4k@] has joined #debian
14:23-!-bl4de [] has joined #debian
14:23<gurpreet>fxiny, this seems good,
14:23-!-Infinito [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
14:23<flamsmark>where i come from ' is an inverted comma, and " are inverted commas
14:23<twb>If you say so.
14:24<jthomas>' single quote " double quote, in my land
14:24<flamsmark>anyway, they are in "
14:24<flamsmark>so, i save that
14:24<twb>`single quotes´, ain't apostrophes :P
14:24<gurpreet>fxiny, esp the MuttGuide link
14:24-!-geresen [~geresen@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:24<jthomas>twb true enough
14:24<twb>But nowadays everyone conflates ´ as ', except when showing off with Unicode
14:25<flamsmark>` != '
14:25-!-a_dave [] has joined #debian
14:25<gurpreet>` == backtick in my land :)
14:25<flamsmark>i save xorg.conf with some changes...
14:25<twb>flamsmark: once this is done, kill off X (e.g. with Ctrl+Alt+Backspace). Don't forget to save anything you care about
14:26<twb>If using gdm, it will start up again on its own.
14:26<twb>Otherwise start X however you normally do
14:26<flamsmark>is it not possible to switch it live?
14:26<flamsmark>i assume i have gdm
14:26<simonrvn>gurpreet: that is a backtick for sure
14:26<twb>It *may* be possible, depending on a range of tedious details
14:26<twb>If it's going to work at all, this way will work
14:26<flamsmark>but otherwise 'startx'
14:26<jthomas>` backtick also, but thats in monospaced fonts and on computers; in writing and publishing i think they're called "stylized quotation marks"
14:27<simonrvn>backtick == ` ; single quote == '
14:27<simonrvn>jthomas: i think so yeh
14:27<gurpreet>simonrvn, apostrophy?
14:27<twb>flamsmark: let this be a lesson to you that everything you care about should run in Screen and thus be detachable :-)
14:27<jw>How do you get past apt-get install no longer recognizing installer DVD??
14:27<simonrvn>apostrophe too yeh
14:27*Tails sighs and still has to install fireware for linux to read his tv usb :(
14:27<twb>gurpreet: apostrophe
14:27<jthomas>an apostrophy is a single quote but quotes come in pairs
14:28<flamsmark>most of my apps are graphical
14:28<gurpreet>twb, i will care about spelling in my english test :)
14:28<twb>The apostrophe is used for contraction and possession.
14:28<flamsmark>is it even possible to run them unlinked to the x?
14:28<a_dave>hi all. I just did a disk-image backup of a machine. The backup boots ok, but eth0 has become eth1. Once I edited /etc/network/interfaces to compensate, networking started up ok. But my question is, what causes this?
14:28<fxiny>twb: yeahhhhhh all we care of is (in) screen :)
14:28<twb>Single quotation marks (single quotes) are used, particularly in (British) English, for quotation. Double quotes (quotation marks) are used for dialogue.
14:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 356] by debhelper
14:29<twb>When performing quotation within dialogue, convention is to alternate between double and single.
14:29<drone77>and i quote <jthoma.s> jw: as root edit /etc/apt/sources.list and remove the line that lists the cdrom/dvd drive, or comment it out
14:29<flamsmark>The apostrophe is different from the closing single quotation mark (usually rendered identically but serving a quite different purpose), and from the similar-looking prime (which is used to indicate measurement in feet or arcminutes, and for various mathematical purposes).
14:29<twb>flamsmark: precisely so.
14:30<twb>The lack of a closing single quote (´) key on US-104 keyboards is probably why people tend to write `foo' instead of `foo´ when using computers.
14:30<dkr>a_dave: different kernel versin just happened to load the nic modules in different order
14:30<flamsmark>and when using nested quotation levels, cycle through single and double inverted commas like brackets
14:30-!-Greg007 [~laptux@] has joined #debian
14:30<flamsmark>Quotation marks or inverted commas (also informally quotes,[1] and occasionally speech marks) are punctuation marks used in pairs to set off speech, a quotation, a phrase or a word. The pair consists of an opening quotation mark and a closing quotation mark, which may or may not be the same character.
14:30<fxiny>flamsmark: old keyboard users use single quotes for all silly apostro-glyphic-signs and latin accent
14:31<gurpreet>flamsmark, true, wikipedia must be right :)
14:31-!-Greg007 [~laptux@] has quit []
14:31<flamsmark>wikipedia is normally pretty good on this sort of topic
14:31<flamsmark>Single or double quotation marks denote either speech or a quotation. Neither style – single or double – is an absolute rule, though double quotation marks are preferred in the United States, and both single and double quotation marks are used in the United Kingdom. A publisher’s or even an author’s style may take precedence over national general preferences.
14:31<dkr>language is defined by consensus opinion, after all. :)
14:31<a_dave>dkr: I actually have two nics, which used to load as eth0 and eth1, but now load as eth2 and eth3...
14:32<dkr>a_dave: oh, that is weird. I thought they just swapped 1 for 0 and vice versa
14:33<gurpreet>flamsmark, i never thought '"` can be that confusing and that too in #debian
14:33<a_dave>some searching has led me to wonder if it has something to do with the saved state of the irq list
14:33<flamsmark>they're almost never confusing
14:34<Tails>i still don't understand what ~ is for lol
14:34<flamsmark>most grammar is actually redundant
14:34<flamsmark>that doesn't mean that it's useless
14:34-!-solemnwarning [] has left #debian []
14:34<flamsmark>just that natlang is somewhat fault-tolerant
14:34-!-m0RrE [] has joined #debian
14:34<fxiny>is a relic of the pharaons
14:34-!-DarkEntity [] has joined #debian
14:34<javrod>somebody speak spanish?
14:35<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
14:35-!-atperez [~atperez@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:35<javrod>hi dpkg
14:35-!-roerich_lap [] has joined #debian
14:35<a_dave>does anyone know how to discard/rebuild the saved irq-state?
14:36<javrod>i'm new in linux
14:36-!-DarkEntity [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:36<javrod>how can I go in to the server in spanish
14:36<a_dave>or maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.
14:36<drone77>talking to the bot....
14:36<dkr>javrod: /join #debian-es
14:37<valdyn>a_dave: you are indeed
14:37<a_dave>:-), that is
14:37<valdyn>a_dave: see /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules
14:38-!-berto [] has quit [Quit: bye]
14:38<valdyn>a_dave: -> interface names depend on mac
14:38<a_dave>valdyn: thanks!
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14:39<jthomas>can anyone tell me where WebDAV permissions are set for Apache2 on Debian? Committed changes by one of our programmers aren't readable by others, and they all have this problem
14:39-!-bored_ [~santhu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:40-!-Payam [] has joined #debian
14:40-!-solo [] has joined #debian
14:40<Payam>i use Parsix with Gnome
14:41<Payam>could you connect me to Parsix Channel?
14:41<Payam>im new here
14:41-!-bob_ [] has joined #debian
14:41<solo>don t know parsix
14:41<solo>wait a minute please
14:41<roerich_lap>jthomas: did you take a look at the file permissions?
14:42-!-Politics [] has joined #debian
14:42<solo>didn't find parsix
14:42<JasonS>Payam: look here
14:43<Payam>i hace senn tjat site
14:43<JasonS>apparently its on freenode
14:43<Payam>could you connect to any persian canel?
14:43<JasonS>Payam: /server then /join #parsix
14:43-!-mode/#debian [-o weasel] by weasel
14:44<Payam>could you cennect me to any perssian help channel? exapt the parsix?
14:44<solo>a debian distrib live cd
14:44<jthomas>roerich_lap: yes the file permissions, thats what I want. I don't want to change systenm-wide umask settings, but I want to change the settings for webdav-committed files. I don't want to manually change them every 15m though
14:44<JasonS>Payam: /server then /join #parsix
14:44-!-solo [] has quit []
14:44<bob_>hello i need some help when i do /etc/init.d/gdm stop to stop gdm the screen goes blank and i get no console just a blank screen
14:44<jthomas>JasonS: *except* parsix
14:45<JasonS>jthomas: well a persian debian channel won't help them so ..
14:45<jthomas>why not?
14:45<JasonS>jthomas: they aren't running debian for one thing but a fork off a fork of debian
14:45-!-solone [] has joined #debian
14:46<jthomas>the Persian Debian channel isn't Debian?
14:46<Payam>JasonS: I need a persian channel! they probebly know somethin g about Parsix
14:46<JasonS>jthomas: yes but parsix isnt debian but a fork of kanotix with is a fork off debian
14:46<jthomas>Payam do you need help with Debian or with Parsix ?
14:47<Payam>Parsix! there is sometihing wrong with that! I cans change the language keyboard layout
14:47<JasonS>Payam: just connect to and join the channel as ive stated
14:47<Payam>its doesnt help
14:48-!-KaiSVK [] has joined #debian
14:48<JasonS>Payam: why not?
14:48<KaiSVK>hi all
14:48<KaiSVK>Payam, /join #ubuntu ;)
14:48<nido>how do ubuntu peeps end up here?
14:49<JasonS>nido: they cant spell
14:49<twb>bob_: try Ctrl+Alt+F1
14:49-!-cahoot [~radix@] has joined #debian
14:49<bob_>done that i get the same
14:49-!-Wesley [] has joined #debian
14:49<twb>bob_: is getty running?
14:49<JasonS>Payam: not oftc
14:49<twb>bob_: if sysvinit is installed, please lisppaste /etc/inittab
14:49<nido>misspell ubuntu as debian? No way you do that by accident
14:49<twb>Oops, s/lisppaste/pastebin/
14:49<twb>nido: people are stupid
14:50<javrod>jajaja jasons
14:50<Payam>Jasons: i begin to hate Linux
14:50<twb>Payam: welcome to the club
14:50<Payam>there is always something wronf
14:50<Wesley>Hello! I'm straceing a mysql server as for some reason its using 99% CPU all the sudden; can anyone enlighten me on the following line: "recv(141001476, ptrace: umoven: Input/output error" ?
14:50<Payam>I have used linus Kubuntu ;last year in one year
14:50<nido>Payam: with all due respect, don't tell me microsoft has got it all right
14:50<JasonS>Payam: try asking in the correct channel for your distro would be a good start
14:50<Payam>that was cool acxtully
14:51<Payam>nido>i hate microsoft and windows
14:51<twb>nido: in some situations non-Free software is VASTLY superior to Free software.
14:51<twb>nido: it wouldn't surprise me at all if bidi was in that category.
14:51<a_dave>valdyn: fwy, that did the trick (once I undid my edits to /etc/network/interfaces). Thanks.
14:51<Payam>nido: its so stupid to pay so mutch for buy Windows
14:51<nido>... microsoft has got it <b>ALL</b> right
14:51<KaiSVK>Payam, why hate linux ? :(
14:51<javrod>i want to play counter strike
14:51<KaiSVK>javrod, use wine ;)
14:52<javrod>what emulator is really good, wine?
14:52<dpkg>rumour has it, wine is packaged in the 'wine' package. or #winehq ( Stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. A buggy alternative win32 API, or a tasty alcoholic beverage.
14:52<twb>KaiSVK: there are two kinds of people that hate Linux -- those that can't get it to work and don't know why, and those that can get it to work and know EXACTLY why it's so horrible
14:52<twb>javrod: wine is not an emulator.
14:52<JasonS>ok twb why is it so horrible?
14:52<Payam>Kaisvk: it takes a long time to learn, there is not a good scource to learn, not in my language r some programs dont word at all on linux
14:52-!-LimCore_ [] has joined #debian
14:52<twb>JasonS: well for a start it's a macrokernel
14:52<javrod>I am now in linux, but in the administrator of paquets, i don't find wine
14:52<KaiSVK>twb, never met someone from the second group ;)
14:52<dkr>twb: you forgot the ones that hate it without even trying it. :)
14:52<nido>that\s a nice quote twb
14:52<twb>dkr: true
14:53<javrod>twd:what is wine?
14:53-!-a_dave [] has quit [Quit: (thanks for all the fishes)]
14:53<KaiSVK>Payam, If I may ... what is your language ?
14:53<Payam>KaiSVK> swedish and persian
14:53<KaiSVK>dkr, those are nobodies ;)
14:53<twb>javrod: wine is an imcomplete port of the w32 APIs to GNU/Linux and related systems
14:53-!-solone [] has left #debian [Verlassend]
14:53<Tails>wine is a Windows layer or something
14:54<twb>Payam: where are you located, physically?
14:54<KaiSVK>Payam, oh well I am sure there are lot of resources in swedish :/
14:54<Payam>KaiSVK:some program like CAD need to be install just on Windows bikaz they need Microsoft.NET
14:54<twb>bob_: "1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1" says that Ctrl+Alt+F1 should work.
14:54<twb>Payam: what city in Sweden?
14:54<KaiSVK>Payam, I don't thing it's about .NET stuff actually ;)
14:55<gurpreet>javrod, i tried it today itself to run couter strike, but failed
14:55<Payam>KaiSVK. I tried with Wine
14:55<bob_>yer but all i get is a blank screen as if its either redering at res my monitor cant handle or something
14:55<Wesley>Could anyone take a look at and tell me if its something I should be worried about?
14:55<Payam>it doest workd
14:55<KaiSVK>Payam, but you are right ... in one openSUSE survey there was AutoCAD on the first place in the chart of most wanted softwares to be ported to linux
14:55<Wesley>its a strace from mysql
14:55<javrod>nooo, COUNTER IS THE BEST
14:55<javrod>i want to play
14:55<twb>Payam: contact the nearest of those groups, and they will be able to help you with installing Linux and with native language supportand documentation.
14:56<javrod>twd: how i can install wine
14:56<twb>javrod: aptitude install wine
14:56<javrod>twb: thanks man
14:56<KaiSVK>Wesley, well ... I am worried that I/O error means something very bad :/
14:56<bob_>or go to the wine web site for the lastest version
14:56<gurpreet>javrod, i tried running steaminstall through wine, but it didnt helped
14:56<Wesley>KaiSVK; I can't seem to find anything in google.. mysql keeps using 99% cpu for no apparent reason
14:56<KaiSVK>btw. I am playing EVE Online here and it's just great ! :D
14:56<twb>bob_: no!
14:57<twb>bob_: that is a fantastically quick way to break your system
14:57<KaiSVK>Wesley, check the HDDs ?!
14:57<bob_>you either have to get the steaminstall.exe or msiexec /i or -i for the msi
14:57<bob_>twb, it works fine on my system
14:57<twb>bob_: you mean that you aren't aware of the breakage
14:57<KaiSVK>bob_, I agree ... packaged soft is the best if you don't need anything special, why would you have to compile
14:58<twb>IME absolutely nothing at all works in Wine, and if you want to play current-gen games you should dual boot or go buy a console or something
14:58<Wesley>KaiSVK, How? I mean whats the best way to check these sort of problems, other then dmesg
14:58<gurpreet>i think i will have to install windows just to play counterstrike
14:58<KaiSVK>Wesley, fsck at first
14:58<bob_>twb, ive got freelancer to run in wine
14:58<drone77>gurpreet javrod, guide on installing CS1.6/CS:S
14:58-!-Guest2547 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:58<Wesley>KaiSVK, it's a live remote system ..
14:58<bob_>am just trying to install the nvidia drivers
14:58<KaiSVK>gurpreet, heard about some people using virtual machines to play wine games :/
14:58<javrod>gurpreet: i find in another page in google, how to instal steam to counter
14:58<bob_>ive also had tf2 running and css
14:59<KaiSVK>Wesley, well ... what should I say ?
14:59<twb>Well, OK, I did get a Department of Justice program for wossname, reviewing past cases for precedence, to work.
14:59<KaiSVK>Wesley, what I would do is CHECK THE FILESYSTEM
14:59<twb>But absolutely no games have ever worked that I've tried
14:59<Wesley>KaiSVK, it's not your problem I know. but .. well don't know maybe you had other things to look at
14:59-!-mentor [~matthew@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:59<gurpreet>javrod, drone77 i read the same page today and did what it told me to do but still results were negetive
15:00<bob_>hmms this is really starting to get to me i feel like pulling my hair out
15:00<twb>It may be because I'm not running fuck-me-harder-nvidia drivers and my card was made in 2002
15:00<KaiSVK>Wesley, look, its not about that your problems aren't mine ;) it's IRC ... we are solving problems wich are not our own ;)
15:00<bob_>lol twb
15:00<KaiSVK>Wesley, secondly, is that database on some RAID array ?
15:00<gurpreet>KaiSVK, virtual m/c will take too must resources
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15:00<javrod>gurpreet, no idea man :(
15:00<KaiSVK>gurpreet, maybe true, but what system resources do you need to play CS anyway ;)
15:00<twb>If I thought Intel were any good I'd just use an i8x0 video card
15:01<drone77>i used that guide quite a while ago and it worked, but that was a while ago
15:01-!-tuxteno [] has joined #debian
15:01<gurpreet>KaiSVK, no resources to run XP
15:01<Wesley>KaiSVK: I'm not that know with the system at all; just not it never used to do this. everything else seems fine.. its just the mysql using 99%
15:01<twb>As it is I have a mix of Matrox G450's, Radeon 9000's, and S3 something or others.
15:01<javrod>I need a emulator to windows
15:01<javrod>a good one
15:01<twb>It's good enough to play Tremulous, so I don't see why these stupid nancy non-free programs shouldn't work with it.
15:01<javrod>i have virtualbox
15:01<KaiSVK>Wesley, have you physical access to that machine ?
15:01-!-silensius [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:01<javrod>of inoteck
15:02<gurpreet>javrod, wine is best emu
15:02<KaiSVK>gurpreet, Wine Is Not Emulator ;)
15:02<Wesley>KaiSVK, I do.. but its a 3 hour trip
15:02<twb>Wesley: can you ring the local monkey and tell him what to do?
15:02<KaiSVK>Wesley, is that machine at your work ?
15:02<gurpreet>KaiSVK, twb oh
15:02<KaiSVK>Wesley, maybe you could check later, tomorrow ?
15:02<gurpreet>KaiSVK, twb what is it then, technically speaking?
15:03<Wesley>it's at our datacentre
15:03<twb>gurpreet: you don't listen!
15:03-!-tuxteno [] has quit []
15:03<nido>musicbrainz rocks
15:03<twb>06:53 <twb> javrod: wine is an imcomplete port of the w32 APIs to GNU/Linux and related systems
15:03<bob_>a compatability layer
15:03-!-Voker57 [~kvirc@] has quit []
15:03<KaiSVK>Wesley, well ... what could you possibly do is backup your database before checking FS
15:03<gurpreet>twb, yes, but this didn't told me that its not an emulator
15:03<twb>It's an implementation of some userspace libraries found on Windows.
15:04<KaiSVK>gurpreet, don't be silly ;)
15:04<KaiSVK>gurpreet, If you knew what an API is ... you would understand ;)
15:04<twb>gurpreet: emulation happens at the ABI layer (or lower, at the hardware layer), not at the API layer.
15:04<gurpreet>KaiSVK, really, i didn't knew the difference
15:04<KaiSVK>gurpreet, study, study, study, aaaaalll the time ;)
15:04<javrod>what that a mind? ---> imcomplete port?
15:05-!-henrik_iv [] has joined #debian
15:05<gurpreet>KaiSVK, i'm, but it will take time
15:05<KaiSVK>javrod, if it would be COMPLETE, I predict that little very little percentil of people would use Win ;)
15:05<javrod>what that's mind
15:05<KaiSVK>gurpreet, good boy ;)
15:05<twb>If you examine the stderr stream from wine, you'll see lots of "entering stub felafel_washington()!" type messages
15:06<javrod>excuse my english ;)
15:06<nido>I'm having a late christmas feeling
15:06<gurpreet>KaiSVK, used wine first time today, to play CS
15:06<nido>I wanna hear christmas songs ^^
15:06<KaiSVK>gurpreet, and it worked right ? :)
15:06<twb>nido: don't let me stop you
15:06-!-ewanm89 is now known as Cap_J_L_Picard
15:06<gurpreet>KaiSVK, nope
15:06<KaiSVK>nido, try something on youtube ;)
15:06<javrod>nido, you have to hear metallica ;)
15:06-!-Cap_J_L_Picard is now known as ewanm89
15:06-!-tolecnal [] has joined #debian
15:07<KaiSVK>javrod, what that's mind = what does it mean ? :D
15:07-!-niulife [] has joined #debian
15:07<nido>javrod: I head their version of jingle bells. I'm suddenly not in the mood anymore
15:07-!-niulife [] has quit []
15:07<bob_>anyone have any ideas about why /etc/init.d/gdm stop leaves me with a blank screen it also happens when i restart the xserver
15:07<nido>I'm gonna listen to lugradio instead
15:07*KaiSVK is in mood to hear something sweet from Bob Sinclair ;)
15:07-!-dli [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:07<javrod>kasisvk:thanks man
15:07*bob_ whacks on some dylon
15:08<KaiSVK>javrod, you are ALLWAYS welcome :) that's about IRCing ... about helping each other :)
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15:08<gurpreet>KaiSVK, i remember now, dosemu is the emulator
15:09<KaiSVK>gurpreet, well done ;)
15:09<KaiSVK>gurpreet, ever used wikipedia ?
15:09<KaiSVK>gurpreet, great thingy :)
15:09<gurpreet>KaiSVK, wikipedia? whats that? :)
15:09<javrod>Kaisvk: where are you from?
15:09<bob_>KaiSVK, wiki can be wrong
15:09<KaiSVK>bob_, what can NOT be wrong ? :) who can NOT be wrong ? :D
15:10<KaiSVK>javrod, SVK :)
15:10<bob_>if you believe in a god
15:10<KaiSVK>bob_, is there some entity like that ? :)
15:10<gurpreet>but still, gives good info
15:10-!-lucas_amorim [~lucas@] has joined #debian
15:10<bob_>well no one knows until there dead
15:10<KaiSVK>bob_, how could you know ;) have you ever been dead ;)
15:10<javrod>svk? jejeje, i have to practice a little more
15:11-!-sms__ [] has joined #debian
15:11<KaiSVK>javrod, Slovakia :)
15:11<gurpreet>bob_, did you ever found wikipedia giving wrong info?
15:11<bob_>i said if you believe in god :P
15:11<javrod>jajaja, good, i am from Venezuela
15:11<gurpreet>it can be wrong theoretically
15:11<KaiSVK>bob_, ok ... we should let this talk be ;) it's not concerning linux or anything "really" important here ;)
15:11<KaiSVK>javrod, woooooow
15:11<bob_>ok KaiSVK
15:12<lucas_amorim>hello. I use gtkguitune to tune my guitars. It was working perfectly, but since I made an apt-get upgrade some time ago, it stopped working. In terminal it complains like this:Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to load module "":
15:12<lucas_amorim>: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
15:12<KaiSVK>lucas_amorim, hmmm ... using stable right ?
15:12<lucas_amorim>initializing audio at /dev/dsp
15:12<lucas_amorim>/dev/dsp: No such file or directory
15:12-!-bremner [] has joined #debian
15:12<lucas_amorim>no, lenny
15:12<lucas_amorim>KaiSVK: using testing
15:13<bob_>javrod, chevez is cool i wish he was in charge over here
15:13<KaiSVK>lucas_amorim, so do I, but only stable is supported :/
15:13<lucas_amorim>what do you mean?
15:13<KaiSVK>lucas_amorim, who knows what could happen, maybe you found a bug
15:13<javrod>bob: jajajjaa are you crazy?
15:13<lucas_amorim>I don't think so
15:14<drone77>bob_, KaiSVK's last statement applies to my thoughts on Chavez also
15:14<lucas_amorim>It is just a dependency problem
15:14<javrod>chavez is crazy man
15:14-!-d0rt [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:14<bob_>well hes better then bush blair/brown
15:14-!-zepard [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:14<javrod>no man
15:14<KaiSVK>javrod, funky hot blooded latin american people :)
15:14<javrod>chavez sucks
15:14-!-flash [] has joined #debian
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15:15<bob_>well over here politics are mainly rich upper class people
15:15<drone77>bob_, meh Blair played simon says
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15:16<bob_>at least chevez has the balls to stand up and tell the us to get lost
15:16-!-svb_ [] has joined #debian
15:16<bob_>where blair followed him like a blind dog
15:16<javrod>well bob, i don't know nothing about bush, but my president is a idiot
15:16<lucas_amorim>i thought it were debian channel
15:16-!-lucas_amorim [~lucas@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
15:16<JasonS>lucas_amorim: it is, just a ton of ot going on
15:16-!-sms_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:17<KaiSVK>I hate people like <lucas_amorim>
15:17<drone77>that badly off topic, eh?
15:17<JasonS>KaiSVK: why?
15:17<KaiSVK>if he would google, he would find that it's already in the debian-lenny bugs :/
15:17<Hideo>how do I make the icons in the debian distributed OO smaller, they are way too huge, especially for my native 1024x768 resolution
15:17<KaiSVK>nobody is forcing him to use lenny :/
15:17<bob_>well there isnt a rule saying you have to only talk about debian is there and if there is im sorry for speaking off topic
15:18-!-svb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:18<JasonS>KaiSVK: 1. folks dont use the net anymore they come on irc and expect us to do the legwork :) 2. we dont know that, they may have to use lenny for hardware reasons?
15:18<gurpreet>KaiSVK, if everybody solves his/her problems using google, then #debian will become a boring place
15:18<Hideo>hey there gurpreet
15:18-!-Metal_Militia [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:18<JasonS>in any case seeing as they left who cares
15:19-!-javrod [~javrod@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
15:19<KaiSVK>JasonS, well that's the problem ... he left after maybe 90 seconds nobody replied to him :/
15:19<KaiSVK>JasonS, well that's the problem ... he left after maybe 90 seconds nobody replied to him :/
15:19<gurpreet>people like me learn a lot by just looking at the window
15:19<KaiSVK>gurpreet, obviously, you are wrong ...
15:19<JasonS>KaiSVK: 3. they seem to expect immediate answers as well heh
15:19-!-betopena [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:19<drone77>yeah, number of things i've picked up by just reading other people's text...
15:20<bob_>JasonS, what happens when google fails?
15:20<KaiSVK>gurpreet, if you expect to just come in the channel and insist on "somebody" to automatically solve your problems ...
15:20<JasonS>bob_: usually means your search paramiters were bad
15:20<JasonS>even if i can't spell it
15:20<drone77>bob_, blasphemy
15:20<gurpreet>KaiSVK, this is Free Software _Community_ dude, helping others is in our spirits
15:21<KaiSVK>oh ... hi user_ ....
15:21-!-user_ [] has quit []
15:21<KaiSVK>you see ... he left :D
15:21<bob_>so how would i google /etc/init.d/gdm stop brings a blank screen
15:21<KaiSVK>gurpreet, it is ...
15:21<drone77>KaiSVK, not fast enough with that answer
15:21<KaiSVK>gurpreet, and as you probably see I try to help
15:21-!-Mr_Giraffe [] has joined #debian
15:22<drone77>bob_, not blank for me
15:22-!-slaxz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:22<KaiSVK>gurpreet, but he was reffering to a BUG !!! You see ... he was actually talking about some KNOWN BUG
15:22-!-marchelh [] has joined #debian
15:22<bob_>well it is for me and its doing my head in
15:22<bob_>i wanna install the nvidia drivers
15:22-!-lllllllllllllllllllllllll [] has joined #debian
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15:22<drone77>oh right the actual terminal, not google
15:22<KaiSVK>gurpreet, he actually wasted everybody's time
15:23<bob_>yer drone77
15:23<gurpreet>KaiSVK, proper way was to just point him to the bug's page and that would have been a good ending to this matter
15:23<drone77>bob_, sorry
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15:23<KaiSVK>Guest2598, it would be ... but he left after 90 seconds ... should I be sorry ? :)
15:24-!-fnordus [~dnall@] has joined #debian
15:24<KaiSVK>gurpreet, it would be ... but he left after 90 seconds ... should I be sorry ? :)
15:24<drone77>bob_, /etc/init.d/gdm force-reload ?
15:24<KaiSVK>gurpreet, he actually left with some "bad emotions" before I was able to link him to bug page
15:25-!-marchelh [] has quit []
15:25<gurpreet>KaiSVK, no dude, not blaming you, sorry if you felt this this
15:25<bob_>even if i restart the x server doing ctrl alt backspace i have to restart my computer
15:25<gurpreet>felt like* this
15:25<bob_>cause it brings a blank screen
15:25-!-antoine [~antoine@] has joined #debian
15:25<KaiSVK>gurpreet, ok ... look at this document ... it HELPED ME VERY MUCH at the start with linux, actually about a year ago or so
15:25<drone77>bob_, but it runs in the first pace?
15:25-!-Pinchacantos [] has quit []
15:25<bob_>strange or what
15:26<gurpreet>KaiSVK, i know what it is, i read it too earlier
15:26<KaiSVK>gurpreet, maybe after reading it you will understand me better
15:27<KaiSVK>KaiSVK, so ... you must understand that before you ask something silly, you should do some research on your own, am I right ? :)
15:27<KaiSVK>antoine, hello
15:27<gurpreet>KaiSVK, i read it again
15:27<gurpreet>KaiSVK, found something
15:27-!-betopena [] has joined #debian
15:27<antoine>Does anyone know whrer I can find a Tutorial for Konversation
15:28<gurpreet>KaiSVK, "...Your local user group, or your Linux distribution, may advertise a Web forum or IRC channel where newbies can get help. (In non-English-speaking countries newbie forums are still more likely to be mailing lists.) These are good first places to ask, especially if you think you may have tripped over a relatively simple or common problem. An advertised IRC channel is an open invitation to ask questions there and often get answers in real time...."
15:28<gurpreet>KaiSVK, esr says that these are first good places to ask
15:28<antoine>thank you very much
15:28<bremner>antoine: what do you need to know (I am using Konversation to type this
15:29<KaiSVK>gurpreet, yes... but you jumped over the previous paragraph talking about "Before you ask" ;)
15:29<gurpreet>KaiSVK, prev para was abt mailing lists or forums
15:29<drone77>bob_, you running - sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop ?
15:30-!-bob_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:30<KaiSVK>gurpreet, I am sorry one of the previous paragraphs ;)
15:30<Hideo>here's a hint if you want questions answered in a linux channel/forum/ml, say "x linux distro sucks, it can't do this, or this, or this"
15:30<antoine>I don't know what we have to do to Dowload some music
15:30<drone77>uh oh..
15:30<Hideo>lol you're almost guaranteed to get an answer
15:30<gurpreet>KaiSVK, 2nd para overwrites whatever was in prev paras :)
15:30-!-bob_ [] has joined #debian
15:30<KaiSVK>Hideo, "And I hate you all you all suck" :D
15:30-!-Martinp23 [] has joined #debian
15:30<weasel>Hideo: and you'll find lots of other idiots giving you all sorts of hints.
15:30<weasel>Hideo: of varying, but usually horrible quality
15:30<KaiSVK>gurpreet, said who ? ;)
15:30-!-fxiny [] has left #debian []
15:31<weasel>smart people will just tag you as a troll and move on
15:31<weasel>that said, bbl.
15:31<bob_>damn terminal
15:31<gurpreet>KaiSVK, leave dude, i said sorry long ago
15:31<Hideo>weasel: didn't know you're here, you're omnipotent
15:31<antoine>Because I've started to use konversation yesterday
15:31<KaiSVK>gurpreet, ok ok :) all good buddy ;)
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15:32<drone77>bob_, same thing?
15:32<gurpreet>KaiSVK, cool, lets keep our viewpoints in our own heads and help someone else or be helped :)
15:32<bremner>antoine: OK, you stumped me. I only use Konveration to chat
15:32-!-JeanoZ [] has joined #debian
15:32<drone77>bob_, and alt+ctrol+f2 doesn't do anything when it fails?
15:33<KaiSVK>anyway, who from us here in channel is visiting debian forums?
15:33*KaiSVK is going for my nasty habbit
15:33<gurpreet>do they exist?
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15:33<drone77>*deadly silence
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15:34<Hideo>okay, I'm taking a numerical method class, and sadly the prof that we'll have to use MS Excel, so to the people who have experiences with it, is OO Calc of similar quality
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15:35<flamsmark>hideo - i find that gnumeric is a great substitutegood
15:35<Grey>Writing extended state information... Error!
15:35<Grey>E: I wasn't able to locate file for the linux-image-2.6.18-4-powerpc package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package.
15:35<Grey>E: I wasn't able to locate a file for the linux-image-2.6.18-5-powerpc package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package. (due to missing arch)
15:35-!-Grey was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
15:35<Hideo>that is by quality I meant, similar feel, functions...
15:35-!-Grey [] has joined #debian
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15:35<Hideo>wow grey
15:35<Grey>Thought it all went on one line
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15:36<flamsmark>hideo, though i'd press charges for religious discrimination
15:36<cahoot>Hideo: why not try them out and compare 'the feel' yourself?
15:36<Grey> Ignore my stupidity and tell me what I'm doing wrong? :)
15:36<flamsmark>or ask him to give you a copy of excel and install it under wine hideo
15:37<Hideo>cahoot: I'm not familiar with neither of them yet, my familiarity is only with matlab/octave
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15:37<flamsmark>if you're given instructions intended for excel, you should easily be able to follow them in gnumeric, hideo
15:38<Hideo>flamsmark: thanks, I'm looking at installing excel on virtualbox, but if there's a way of avoiding, I'd like to use opensource instead
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15:39<Hideo>bah s/neither/either/g
15:39<flamsmark>hideo, you shouldn't have a problem with gnumeric
15:39<flamsmark>i've been used to doing numeric things in excel for years, and i can do everything without thinking in gnumeric
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15:40<Hideo>flamsmark: ok, thanks, me installs gnumeric
15:40<drone77>bob_, nvidia drivers?
15:41-!-K4k-laptop [~K4k@] has joined #debian
15:41<KaiSVK>bob_, tell us what's the error when gdm cannot start ? some X server error message ?
15:41<bob_>what you mean
15:41<bob_>no it just goes blank
15:41<drone77>bob_, what drivers are you using?
15:42-!-Grey [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:42<bob_>i wanna install the nvidia drivers
15:42<Hideo>flamsmark: when I share excel files, which format should I save to in gumeric or OO calc?
15:42<KaiSVK>bob_, is gdm your defauld login manager ? tried dpkg reconfigure xserver-xorg ?
15:42<KaiSVK>bob_, using stable ?
15:42<bob_>yer im using etch
15:42<flamsmark>hideo, i don't know. i've never moved files between excel, oo and gnumeric
15:42<bob_>and ive tried that as well
15:43<bob_>the dpkg reconfigure that is
15:43<flamsmark>hideo, do you need to submit files to your teacher?
15:43<KaiSVK>bob_, or google for some better howto
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15:43<Hideo>flamsmark: yeah, for hw's
15:43<flamsmark>hideo - why not just export pdfs?
15:44<Hideo>flamsmark: I see excel 2007, 97/2000/xp, etc..
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15:44<bob_>yer i tried that KaiSVK but it give me a blank screen
15:44<Hideo>flamsmark: b/c they may ask to see the formula
15:44<bremner>hideo: excel import/export works ok in gnumeric for me
15:44<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, ask me about <nvidia one-liner> for a reminder.
15:44-!-das_maze [] has joined #debian
15:44<KaiSVK>bob_, than in command line try modprobe nvidia
15:45<KaiSVK>bob_, as root
15:45<Hideo>bremner: cool, thanks
15:45-!-kutio [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:45<flamsmark>hideo - tsv or csv?
15:45<bob_>i uninstalled them and downloaded the nvidia ones and was gonna try them
15:45-!-bigjocker [~bigjocker@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:45<twb>The non-free drivers are Evil and Wrong
15:45<bob_>why are they evil and wrong
15:45<KaiSVK>twb, nobody cares ...
15:46<twb>Using them to get 3d acceleration is like invading Iraq to get cheaper oil
15:46-!-antoine [~antoine@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:46<Hideo>flamsmark:it's b/c 1. the prof specifically asked for a certain format, 2. they may be luddites and don't know how to open those
15:46-!-gurpreet [~geek@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:46<KaiSVK>twb, don't waste your breath
15:46-!-dasmaze [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:46<KaiSVK>twb, he can not run X, he is actually not concerned about free / non-free right now I think ;)
15:46-!-creeed [] has joined #debian
15:47<KaiSVK>bob_, and well, to be objective, you can use free nv driver ;)
15:47<twb>Then he can use the vesa driver
15:47<KaiSVK>bob_, dpkg reconfigure xserver-xorg and try to choose nv driver
15:47-!-kutio [] has joined #debian
15:47<twb>Anything supported by the evil drivers will surely work with vesa
15:47<flamsmark>hideo - gnumeric can export excel according to
15:47<drone77>bob_, oh.. i was under the impression that X was running...
15:47<bob_>the nv driver has never work for any of my nvidia cards
15:48<bob_>x is running
15:48<KaiSVK>bob_, how is that ?
15:48<twb>bob_: if it doesn't work, you should report the fact
15:48<bob_>its when i restart x or stop x then i get the problem
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15:48<twb>bob_: I have that problem when using nv *and* nvidiafb
15:48-!-azeem-un1 [] has joined #debian
15:48<bob_>no i mean with the vesa driver
15:49<bob_>the nv driver just doesnt work
15:49<twb>I don't remember trying it with vesa
15:49<KaiSVK>bob_, what's that card anyway ?
15:49<Hideo>flamsmark: right, which one is the most "compatiblest" that I should export to?
15:49<bob_>geforce 8800 gts
15:49<drone77>so it will crash when using the nvidia?
15:49<twb>My old box exploded and I forgot to swap the mga card out of it
15:49<bob_>well it doesnt crash just doesnt bring anything up on the display
15:49<bob_>when it tried and loads x
15:49<KaiSVK>bob_, well it should work ... even with vesa and nv and nvidia drivers all along :/
15:50<drone77>bob_, while under nvidia ones?
15:50<bob_>yer drone77
15:50<flamsmark>if youur prof wants excel format, gnumeric can export directly to an xls
15:50<drone77>Oh right
15:50<bob_>i know
15:50<flamsmark>it can also read xls files
15:50<flamsmark>hideo ^
15:50<twb>flamsmark: the .xls extension is used for several different Microsoft Excel file formats
15:50<drone77>bob_, havent read all of this but you can -
15:51<KaiSVK>bob_, so let's sumarise that ... you start your computer with whatever driver, you can see GDM login screen right ?
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15:51<twb>flamsmark: none of them are backwards-compatible with older distributions of Microsoft Excel, at least for consumers. Multinationals get special privileges.
15:52<bob_>but if i restart x or close x and try to login in to the terminal the screen goes blank
15:52<Hideo>so the older format the better then, twb?
15:52<twb>Hideo: probably the 97-through-XP format is best
15:52<flamsmark>what version does your prof use?
15:52<KaiSVK>bob_, anyway why are you restarting X ?:)
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15:53<drone77>bob_, i suggest reading the link i gave - seems like might be your problem then
15:53<Hideo>ok thanks twb
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15:53<twb>You could of course just send it to your prof and ask if he can read it
15:53<Hideo>flamsmark: I have no clue, we haven't start on hw's yet
15:53<Hideo>twb: roger that
15:53<ranix_>.doc sucks
15:53<ranix_>notate it in xml and post it on the intertubes
15:54<ranix_>or fax him a copy
15:54<twb>.doc is XML these days
15:54<flamsmark>hideo - ask your prof what format s/he wants, and give that to him/her
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15:54<bob_>drone77, it doent freeze the machine
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15:54<ranix_>last I remember of .doc it was weird binary
15:54<Hideo>ranix_: then he'll give you an f for not doing what he asked :P
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15:54<bob_>i can do ctrl alt delete and itll reboot it
15:55<drone77>so you can run commands but jus the video is hanging
15:55<twb>For read-only exchange between consumer systems, PDF is probably the most reliable for preserving presentational markup.
15:55<ranix_>Hideo: then show him the pictures you have of him driving down main street with a child that is not his in the front seat
15:55<twb>ranix_: it's compressed
15:55<KaiSVK>bob_, anyway, you have relatively NEW hardware, and as you know drivers are done by reversed engineering so... it can take some "version" to overcome this problem :/
15:55<twb>ranix_: certainly is a LZ archive containing XML and some other crap
15:55<ranix_>really you should just do that to begin with
15:55<KaiSVK>bob_, searched the web for similar problems ?
15:55<Lynx>yepp that's true, PDF would be the best
15:56<Lynx>and it is good readaböe
15:56<twb>bob_: ew, it's new hardware?
15:56<twb>bob_: that was dumb
15:56<ranix_>twb: It's been ages since I actually used a document editor like that :(
15:56<flamsmark>but ranix_, to do that, you need photoshop. and that's not easy to run
15:56<twb>new hardware = doesn't work
15:56<Hideo>ranix_: you're evil minded :D
15:56<ranix_>flamsmark: I use the gimp because I can't draw anyway
15:56<twb>ranix_: I don't use word processors, either.
15:56<bob_>well ive an nforce 4 board
15:57<bob_>its only my gfx card thats new hardware
15:57<KaiSVK>twb, I didn't say that ... but 8800 is really knew one ... and it is just the latest proprietary driver from nvidia for inux "fully " supporting it /
15:57<Hideo>twb: vim ftw!? :p
15:57<flamsmark>twb, so you don't use new systems, guis, or word processors?
15:57<twb>flamsmark: correct
15:57<ranix_>I use guis at work
15:57<flamsmark>do you just irc from the command line twb?
15:57<twb>Well, I use GUIs under duress
15:57<twb>No, I irc from Emacs.
15:57<bob_>ive had the card working in ubuntu and someother distros
15:57<ranix_>I have X for web browsing and checking email
15:58<ranix_>and I have to use qemu to run windows for some marketing database
15:58<KaiSVK>bob_, it's weird but did you tried lenny ?
15:58<twb>For example, some websites don't work in w3m-el, and VMware doesn't support ttyS0 for testing automated installs
15:58<KaiSVK>bob_, it has whole new and also vesa, nv driver :/
15:58<twb>I haven't gotten around to replacing vmware with kvm for that.
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15:59<bob_>no but isnt there quite a few bugs in lenny
15:59-!-flamsmark [flamsmark@pu114746.student.Princeton.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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15:59<ranix_>I enjoy the way xterminals look too much to be on the command line all the time
15:59<twb>There are thousands of bugs in Lenny
15:59<bob_>+ ive tried downloading the new kernel from backports
15:59<bob_>and xorg
16:00<KaiSVK>bob_, well I am running lenny with absolutely now problems
16:00-!-walter_ [] has joined #debian
16:00<ranix_>I am also using lenny, but I know my way around a command line with some of the best
16:00<KaiSVK>bob_, it depends, what would you like to do with your linux machine
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16:01<ranix_>I only use non-stable if I have a specific reason
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16:01<ranix_>otherwise I prefer stable
16:01<bob_>just using it to browse the net and run a few old games under wine
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16:01<KaiSVK>bob_, testing will be fine ;)
16:02<ranix_>just use stable unless you have a specific reason to use testing, bob_
16:02<Hideo>to tell the truth, unstable is not that unstable
16:02<ranix_>but just one good reason is enough, don't worry about the semantics too much
16:02<Hideo>I've used it for years never ran into serious problems
16:02<KaiSVK>bob_, ranix_ is correct, use stable if can with no problems
16:02<ranix_>I have run into some obnoxious problems
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16:03<ranix_>md -A didn't work
16:03<bob_>kk ill try lenny and see what happens
16:03<ranix_>mdadmin that is
16:03<KaiSVK>bob_, and most of the thing do some search for similar problem, send this problem to the mailing list propably would be a good idea
16:03<ranix_>-A switch functionality was commented out
16:03<twb>Just because unstable works for *you* doesn't mean that it doesn't have problems.
16:03<ranix_>had to use --all. First time using mdadmin and it threw me for a loop like you wouldn't believe
16:04<ranix_>something like that
16:04<twb>For example, maybe support for Greek is totally broken and you don't know because you don't speak Greek.
16:04<Hideo>fortunately :P
16:04<bob_>ok ill try lenny and report back later :)
16:04<KaiSVK>twb, whatever ... he is just trying right ;) so he could just try to install lenny and see for him self
16:05<KaiSVK>bob_, hope you understand what you are doing, I don't want to blame me ;)
16:05<twb>Yes, bearing in mind of course that downgrading is not supported.
16:05<ranix_>and upgrading is super easy
16:05<bob_>KaiSVK, i do
16:05<KaiSVK>bob_, GL !
16:05-!-kutio [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:05<bob_>im gonna format anyway
16:05<ranix_>too bad you missed the good times, bob_
16:05<bob_>good times?
16:05<ranix_>getting enlightenment working on a k6 with Potato
16:05<ranix_>no pointers found!
16:06<ranix_>I think I was like 15
16:06<twb>That would explain why you wanted to use e16
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16:07<bob_>gnome sucks tho
16:07<twb>Well, Gnome2 sucks
16:07-!-Shovely_Joe [] has quit []
16:07<bob_>ive always preferred kde
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16:08<bob_>not sure if i like the look of kde 4 tho
16:08<twb>That was when they decided gnome should favour new users to the exclusion of experienced users
16:08<Hideo>fluxbox, simple, fast, and very customizable
16:08<twb>Because everyone knows that it's best if you keep your users as ignorant newbies, and prevent them from ever becoming power users
16:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 350] by debhelper
16:09<drone77>i loved trying to get e to work
16:09-!-walter_ [] has joined #debian
16:09<twb>drone77: yeah, I did that whenever I was really bored
16:09<ranix_>kde is horrible
16:09<ranix_>gnome is too so don't feel so bad, but gah
16:09<twb>drone77: just trying to get it to compile would happily waste four or five hours
16:09<ranix_>why did you leave windows in the first place if you want convoluted menus to configure everything
16:09<drone77>twb, nothing like a good bit of installing horrible programs
16:09<drone77>when bored
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16:10<Alex_k>ciao a tutti
16:10<ranix_>a window manager should manage windows, not be some kind of bloated software suite
16:10<Hideo>when I'm bored, I compile the kernels using distcc with crappy machines at home
16:10<Hideo>and time it!
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16:11<bob_>lol Hideo
16:11<twb>ranix_: GNOME isn't a WM.
16:11<twb>ranix_: GNOME, like Emacs, is a desktop environment.
16:11<Alex_k>ragazzi vorrei avere 2 postazioni indipendenti tipo split screen
16:11<bob_>try compiling gentoo and time that on an old machine with OO and KDE
16:11*drone77 is bored now. needs something to fix/install/configure
16:11-!-sms__ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:11<Alex_k>2 mouse 2 tastiere 2 skermi
16:11<ranix_>desktop environment
16:12<dpkg>per aiuto in lingua italiana, provi il canale #debian-it sulla rete (non C'è anche il canale #linux-it là.
16:12<ranix_>I don't like those words, twb
16:12<Hideo>bob_: I said when I'm bored, not suicidal
16:12<Alex_k>ranix_ e la risposta x me?
16:12<Alex_k>thank you
16:12<twb>Hideo: ya paint racing stripes down the case
16:13<twb>red cases go faster
16:13<Hideo>that makes it computes faster!
16:13-!-Alex_k [] has quit []
16:13<twb>You can get purple and red PCBs these days
16:13<bob_>yer and stick a couple of fins so its areodynamic
16:13<SpeedyG>no way! my blue one beats the red one!
16:13<ranix_>Alex_k: Yo no hablo el idioma loco luna
16:13<twb>And fucking blindingly blue LEDs
16:13<twb>I hate those SO MUCH
16:14<SpeedyG>twb: I hate any led
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16:14<bob_>neons then :P
16:14<SpeedyG>those too
16:14<SpeedyG>computers must be dark as possible
16:14<Hideo>useless and only suck up power
16:14<SpeedyG>so they can run at night in my bedroom :p
16:14<twb>SpeedyG: the blue ones are so bright they glow THROUGH two layers of electricians tape
16:14<SpeedyG>computers should just be ledless
16:14<twb>SpeedyG: I disagree
16:15<SpeedyG>or the leds should be coverable
16:15<twb>indicators are useful for emergency diagnostics
16:15<twb>Right, coverable
16:15<bob_>i sleep right next to my computer and the leds on my fans dnt bother me
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16:15<SpeedyG>i've got this ultra-bright blue fancontroller
16:15<SpeedyG>but its nicely covered
16:15<SpeedyG>so my room is dark at night
16:15<drone77>computers should be black holes
16:15<SpeedyG>drone77: financially spoken, they are :p
16:15<twb>I have to put a beanie on my otherise cute and sexy TDK Xa-40 speaker unit to cover up the stupid fucking backlit blue LED
16:16<ranix_>twb: cool
16:16<twb>It's inside the volume knob, so I can't tape over it
16:16<Hideo>twb: play dough
16:16<twb>And the whole unit is sealed without screws, so I can't just cut it out
16:16<ranix_>it's just an led, open it up and fix it
16:16<Hideo>short it lol
16:17<ranix_>or reverse the polarity and see if it changes color
16:17<twb>ranix_: the unit is sealed
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16:17<ranix_>what is a speaker unit anyway, twb
16:17<twb>I don't wanna just hacksaw it open in case the magic acoustic properties escape
16:17<twb>ranix_: it's a cardboard cone with an electromagnet at the apex
16:18<twb>ranix_: you use it to make noises
16:18<ranix_>oh I see
16:18<ranix_>that crazy new kid technology
16:18<twb>The same hardware can also function as a microphone
16:18<twb>Just as a motor is also a thingy
16:18<Hideo>it has rainbows and unicorn in it
16:18<drone77>SpeedyG, no if i was to do that i would replace should with are
16:19<twb>drone77: please, have some commas
16:19<xDbr>the cd1 xfce need another iso image to complete the instalation?
16:19<twb>drone77: I have a whole box
16:19<drone77>twb cool thanks
16:19*drone77 receives commas
16:20<drone77>twb, cool, thanks
16:20<ranix_>use them liberally, but keep track of your apostrophes
16:21<twb>Bleh, it's only 8am and I'm tired
16:21<ranix_>4:21pm here
16:21<ranix_>did you do the Time Warp
16:21<twb>I guess I haven't had any coffee since 3am
16:21<cdlu>ranix, it's yesterday here. :)
16:22<ranix_>do you have any questions for me and the World of Tomorrow?
16:22<bob_>its like 9:20 pm here
16:22<twb>ranix_: yeah, where's my goddamn flying car
16:22<cdlu>this has the makings of a good joke
16:22<drone77>bob_, sleepy time!
16:22<cdlu>the aussie, the european, and the american were looking at a clock...
16:22<ranix_>twb: gerald ford fucked it up, then the price of gas skyrocketed
16:22<ranix_>next question
16:23<bob_>nah my sleepy time is about 4am
16:23-!-henrik_iv [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:23-!-Hideo [] has quit [Quit: going home!]
16:23<ranix_>in the World of Tomorrow, the Year Of the Linux Desktop is 2008
16:23<SpeedyG>xDbr: depends on what install-options you select I guess
16:24-!-ktwilight[m] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24<ranix_>quick, put me on with PC Magazine
16:24<twb>ranix_: hey hey, maybe your buddies in detroit shouldn't be fighting the new mpg changes
16:24<cdlu>the year of the linux desktop was 1997... but noone's figured it out yet.
16:24-!-bdusauso [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:24<drone77>who will win the 3:15 at Aintree? (if there is one)
16:24-!-antoine [] has joined #debian
16:24<bob_>whats next weeks lottery numbers
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16:25<twb>bob_: 1 through 32, same as every other week
16:25-!-d0rt [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:25<bob_>wrong its 1 through 49 overhere
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16:26<antoine>does anyone know the commands to dowload ?
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16:27<ranix_>antoine: wget <url>
16:27<ranix_>or, for more information, man wget
16:28<ranix_>you could be more specific to as what you mean by 'download' also
16:28<ranix_>might be able to help more if wget isn't your thing
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16:30<bob_>think he wanted to download goatporn thats why he quit when you asked him what he wanted to download :x
16:31<drone77> ?
16:31<bob_>google it
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16:32<drone77>dont think I want to google that
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16:51<ranix_>hi, manix
16:52<manix>hi I've just started running knoppix and am trying to configure printer,
16:52<manix>is there any help around here?
16:52<ranix_>manix: that's pretty cool, but this is #debian
16:52<ranix_>I can still help
16:52<ranix_>grab an iso from
16:52<manix>thank the maker
16:52<JasonS>ranix_: heh
16:52<ranix_>that'll fix your knoppix problem
16:53<manix>ahh wll pop over there now. Will I need to run debian separately
16:53<ranix_>it's a good idea
16:53<JasonS>manix: just install debian to the drive and your all set
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16:54<twb>!tell manix about knoppix
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16:56<manix>am in knoppix at the moment
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16:56<manix>oh sorry dude
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16:56<manix>no hard drvie plugged in lol
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16:56<JasonS>manix: heh ya that could be a problem
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16:56<ranix_>that will limit your options
16:57<JasonS>manix: /join #knoppix then, i think its on freenode mind you
16:57<manix>have quite a large amount of ram
16:57<manix>1 gig
16:57<ranix_>or you can have fun with >file | /dev/lpt0
16:57<JasonS>manix: just curious, but why no drive?
16:57<ranix_>if your printer supports postscript you could make your own driver in perl
16:57<manix>ok will do
16:58<manix>mashed up drive with ubuntu
16:58<manix>sad story
16:58<manix>had an external hard drive
16:58<JasonS>how did you physically damage a drive installing ubuntu?
16:58<ranix_>it fell off the table when he went to put in the cd
16:58<manix>ran it from external with internal windows disc plugged in.
16:59<lupine_85>threw it out of the window in frustration, trying to get lvm working?
16:59-!-screenn [~screenn@] has joined #debian
16:59<lupine_85>seriously. the alternate CD doesn't play well with LVM, and the normal CD doesn't touch it at all
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17:00<manix>lol will beware of lvm then
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17:00<ranix_>I wouldn't know, I've installed ubuntu a grand total of two times
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17:00<lupine_85>LVM is great. It's Ubuntu that sucks
17:00<manix>what is lvm
17:00<ranix_>I think I used faggoty fox once and whorey hedgehog once
17:00<dpkg>somebody said lvm was at, Logical Volume Manager for Linux, or ask me about <lvm_tutorial>, or extremely sexy. almost as sexy as Theo
17:00<ranix_>logical volume management
17:01<lupine_85>and FYI, that's /very/ sexy
17:01<ranix_>really? I've never used lvm
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17:01<manix>ahhh logical volume management
17:01<Mr-R>where is good old sistina?
17:02<ranix_>it frightened me to think about restoring an lvm controlled server that had a total disaster
17:02<lupine_85>this is what regular backups are for
17:02<ranix_>I back up with dump and restore
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17:02<ranix_>good old full filesystem dump
17:02<lupine_85>lvm is awesome if you're like me and have a load of spare hard drives sat around
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17:03<ranix_>I just raid0
17:03<ranix_>slightly less safe than jbod
17:03<ranix_>but easier and slightly faster
17:04<ranix_>it screams when I'm running quickpar or unpacking an iso
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17:04<stroyan>ranix_: "Total disaster" is a crashed hard drive? Or building burned down? Once you are restoring from backups I don't see any effect from LVM.
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17:04<koollman>raid0 is not as modifiable as lvm. can't easily add and remove differently sized disks
17:04<ranix_>total disaster as in the server melted down, I bought new parts, and have to restore, stroyan
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17:04<stroyan>stroyan: Then I don't see how LVM affects the backups.
17:05<koollman>well ... make sure you backup useful things, then :)
17:05<koollman>in a 'normal' case, you would need some idea on the partition table
17:05<koollman>with lvm, you need a listing of logical volumes
17:05<manix>how do I get to freenode guys?
17:06<ranix_>I use raid0 at home and raid1/raid5 on two workhorses
17:06<ranix_>I didn't know LVM was as simple as it seems to be
17:06<ranix_>I guess it's transparent to Dump
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17:08<brif8>anyone got sid GeForce 6200 and Dual Monitors
17:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 331] by debhelper
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17:09<brif8>no matter what I try for xorg.conf I can't get dual montiors to work (they did with Ubuntu) but not since I switched. So I know it's a config setting
17:10<ranix_>are you using the nvidia drivers, or the open source nv driver
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17:10<brif8>nv at the moment, It had an error with nvidia
17:11<jeromegamez>Greetings! I am quite new to server administration and Debian, but I get it managed. Now I have the following question: I have installed spamassassin via apt-get, but now I am thinking about upgrading it to the latest version. Is it safe to do a manual install? Do I have to uninstall the apt-get version first?
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17:11<ranix_>jeromegamez: you are safe to apt-get install spamassassin again to upgrade
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17:12<brif8>ranix_: Failed to load module nvidia modules does not exist
17:12<ranix_>brif8: you don't have the driver properly installed
17:12<ranix_>brif8: I managed to install it with a faq from google a couple times
17:13<jeromegamez>ranix_: The debian package is older than the version provided on the spamassassin web page, that's why I'm asking.
17:13<ranix_>there's a "debian way" and a "wrong way" to do it, you want to try to do it the "debian way" with module-assistant or something
17:13<KaiSVK>ok folks
17:13<KaiSVK>I gotto go sleep
17:13<KaiSVK>good bye
17:13<JasonS>jeromegamez: dont worry about it, the debian version isnt the latest and greatest but it has security updates
17:13<ranix_>jeromegamez: I wouldn't upgrade to the one on the spamassassin webpage unless you have a good reason
17:13<brif8>ranix_: what was you keyword search I have looked and followed many google searches none worked so far
17:14<jeromegamez>ranix_: okay, thank you for your advice. i will follow that :)
17:14<ranix_>brif8: don't recall.
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17:14<ranix_>jeromegamez: don't forget clamav, freshclam, and greylistd
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17:15<JasonS>and others depending on the mta installed
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17:16<jeromegamez>ranix_: you are very friendly :). i have also installed trac with apt-get, but there was a much newer version with enhanced features on the developer page, so i installed that with ruby. do you consider that a problem for later upgrades? i suppose that i will have to do all upgrades manually now.
17:17<ranix_>jeromegamez: I'm a troll, actually. I haven't tried trac
17:17<brif8>ranix_: are you still using it now ? could you share your xorg.conf
17:17<jeromegamez>ranix_: lol? okay :)
17:17<jeromegamez>? = !
17:17<ranix_>sorry brif8, that was on my laptop at work, I literally just got home 15 minutes ago
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17:17<ranix_>bad timing :(
17:18<ranix_>if you're still having problems tomorrow I can stick it somewhere for you
17:18<ranix_>I think it is actually a geforce6200 or 6300
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17:36<rainrunner87>Would anyone be able to help me decide between PLD and Debian?
17:37<JasonS>rainrunner87: hmm, you're in #debian so what do you think we'll say :)
17:37<rainrunner87>JasonS: You'll enlighten me on the advantages Debian has that I might not have been able to find on my own?
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17:38<JasonS>rainrunner87: actually id point you to ##linux or to the repective distro websites
17:39<JasonS>!why debian
17:39<dpkg> or
17:40<Supaplex>because it RAWKZ :)
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17:41<dondelelcaro>rainrunner87: we'd have to know way more about PLD than any of us know to point out feature differentials
17:41<dondelelcaro>(otherwise we could talk for hours about why you should use Debian)
17:41<dkr>rainrunner87: has a decent rundown of distro differencexs/features
17:42<silensius>is it possible to downgrade from sdi to etch ?
17:43<rainrunner87>Alas. Ok, I've been reading the distro sites, as well as a couple comparison sites (including distrowatch), but I'm just still having trouble deciding. I was just hoping someone would know something about compensating for the slightly slower speed that the comparison sites report about Debian, especially as compared to a more optimized distro like PLD.
17:43<dondelelcaro>silensius: it is, but it's not supported.
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17:44<Supaplex>!tell silensius -about downgrade
17:45<rainrunner87>I love everything about Debian (currently using Ubuntu, decided I want more control over my computer and more options), but I love everything about PLD too. I just really like the size of the Debian community as compared to the small PLD community. The only thing PLD's got that I'm wondering about is their supposedly extraordinarily elegant boot-up scripts and speed.
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17:45<JasonS>rainrunner87: but once you boot up the first time who cares how fast it is?
17:45<dkr>rainrunner87: I doubt you would ever notice a speed difference in actual usage your bottlenecks are more i/o and device polling than they are cpu optimizations
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17:46<Supaplex>rainrunner87: what's this reboot thing you speak of?
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17:46<Nemoder>rainrunner87: you can save a lot on bootup time just by building your own custom kernel no matter what distro you go with
17:46<dkr>"non-conservative approach to RPM usage" sounds scary :)
17:46<Nemoder>and debian has excellent built scripts to make that rather painless
17:47<Tarca1>Supaplex: Reboot: Only useful on Windows boxes and any without UPSes
17:47<rainrunner87>Well, I'm using a laptop that I have to periodically shut down and take to class. So bootups are a fact of life sometimes.
17:47<bremner>Tarca1: kernel upgrade?
17:47<Tarca1>Forgot about those, bremner
17:48<Supaplex>awww my awesome headphones are busticated now :`(
17:48<Tarca1>Been too long since I did one. :-( Just built a new server. Once I'm done playing with the RAID, I'll be building a kernel, that may take a few reboots to get right again.
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17:51<rainrunner87>See, the custom-built kernel tip, the i/o bottleneck, those were the kind of tips I'd hoped for. Thanks for the help.
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17:54<Tarca1>custom kernels are great once you've done enough to know the gotchas (examples: Do NOT build your root FS driver as a module, nor the IDE/SCSI/RAID support underlying the disk. Also don't forget to include these as needed. SCSI means much more than just SCSI; you need it for CD-Rs and SATA too.)
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17:56<Tarca1>Once you get one working on your system, upgrades are easy too. Copy the config from the old version and run through it again changing anything new. You're much less likely to forget something that way.
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17:59<Tarca1>Hardware question (on a Linux box)
17:59<Tarca1>Is 58.82 degrees C unusually high for an ICH8R chipset?
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18:07<Tarca1>dkr: Thanks. Any suggestions? Maybe an old small CPU fan to retrofit over it?
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18:09<sooperkuh>Tarca1: maybe just peeling off the cooler and putting it on with thermal glue would help
18:09<sooperkuh>if it comes off, that is
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18:11<keytrin>I want a podcatcher that works with Deb Xfce without too many gnome libraries. It needs to manage enclosures ideally.
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18:15<Tarca1>Sooperkuh: Might be a good call. It's an Intel board. The Intel stock cooler that came with it had pads rather than thermal paste. Stands to reason that the board would be designed similarly, and it appears that the cooler (possibly the whole chip) can be removed. There is a ZIF-style lever by it.
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18:15<dkr>Tarca1: there are chipset and northbridge little hsf coolers
18:16<sooperkuh>dkr: but they suck, they are loud, they break when you least need it etc.
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18:16<sooperkuh>i'd try out thermal paste first. passive cooling is soo much better imho
18:16<Tarca1>I'll see what I can do with it as-is. I'll be back.
18:16<dkr>true, my nb hsf is currently the loudest in my system. but I was brqindead and used one that permanently attaches
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18:21<Flakk>hi people does there exist a debian package for stock trading? something like MetaStock or TradeStation, but for debian
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18:24<Tarca1>soopekuh: Just scrape off the glob of pad that's under the heatsink? I sure don't want to be making the thermal layer thicker, and I really don't want to be scraping my northbridge chip.
18:26<GoinEasy9>Flakk: I have an Ameritrade account, their website and trading features all run well under Debian/Linux environment
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18:27<Guest2598>Flakk.. I just googled and got the result "qtstalker". You can verify this in the Debian web site by checking "Debian Packages"
18:28<Flakk>GoinEasy9 - yes I understand this I have a similar thing with a broker but mine in any case is not sufficient
18:28<Flakk>thanx i will try qtstalker
18:28<dkr>GoinEasy9: well, some of the java extra features can be a bit buggy. basic stuff all works though
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18:29<Flakk>I mean my broker just give the prophet basic package and that is all
18:29<Flakk>if i want more of course i can subscribe to Prophet
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18:30<GoinEasy9>dkr: java stuff is buggy..but has gotten better over time.
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18:31<Flakk>oh good the qtstalker seems nice - I tried the xtrade but it is not free, and itrade is not yet ready to use
18:31<Flakk>I will try
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18:32<geresen>stoned debain
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18:33<Maulkin>Erm, what?
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18:36<geresen>anyone interested in computer forensics?
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18:41<electrogimp>hello, anyone free to help with a webcam driver question?
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18:50<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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18:56<electrogimp>i have a problem with pwc (philips webcam driver) - oddly enough got it working the other day but hasn't worked since
18:57<electrogimp>have tried both loadable module, and compiled into kernel - dmesg shows debug output from driver, but /dev/video0 doesn't get created
18:57<electrogimp>i gather it might be a udev issue but i'm clueless in that area
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19:05<profobofucho>hello, i have an 845G intel graphic integrated car, is there a way of activate direct rendering?
19:05<lupine_85>use the intel driver
19:05<profobofucho>i'm using driver i810
19:06<profobofucho>the one provided by debian stable?
19:06<lupine_85>that should give you direct rendering, as long as you're not doing it Wrong
19:06<profobofucho>module "dri" must be loaded?
19:07<profobofucho>i configure it through dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
19:07<profobofucho>do not know what could be doing wrong
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19:08<profobofucho>well, if there should be direct rendering per se then i will try different configurations
19:08<lupine_85>mm. Any error messages in /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
19:08<profobofucho>let me check
19:09<profobofucho>no errors
19:10<profobofucho>(WW) I810(0): Extended BIOS function 0x5f05 failed.
19:11<profobofucho>(EE) AIGLX: DRI module not loaded
19:11<profobofucho>oh, i think i know whats wrong
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19:14<twb>glxinfo | grep -i direct
19:14<profobofucho>(EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/ failed (/usr/lib/dri/i915_$(EE) AIGLX: reverting to software rendering
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19:15<profobofucho>that's it
19:15<profobofucho>why could that happen?
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19:16<profobofucho>perhaps wrong path?
19:16<profobofucho>let mebuild db
19:16<Munkie>After installing new programs in Debian they do not show up in the (Gnome) menu forcing me to remember what I installed instead of just looking at my application menu. Is there any (easy?) way to get these apps to show up on the menu? I have also tried slab but that seems quite static too...
19:18<profobofucho>it seems that i do not have dri
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19:24<dkr>Munkie: they show up in the menu right away for me. perhaps it is a bug with the particular app this didn't work for you(or the packager never bothered)
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19:28<Munkie>dkr: Some programs (iceweasel, evolution, etc) show up fine, others (Fraqtive, FreeJ, Baobab, DDD, Dragbox) not at all. Could well be an integration thing but I have found an app that answers my needs and shows "all". The Launcher...
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19:30<Munkie>dkr: Could I have a corrupted or biting Gnome config file somewhere that would cause this?
19:30<Munkie>I have no idea which config files decide what should show up on the Gnome Applications menu
19:31<dkr>Munkie: I think the package maintainers would have needed to add something to add it to the menus in the install scripts themselves. you could look at the source .deb of one of the packages that does to see how it is done
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19:35<rogi_cp1>hi! i need help with squid. please in portuguese!
19:35<dpkg>[po] Piss Off or Post Office
19:35<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
19:36<avtobiff>or mabye...
19:36<dpkg>Esse canal e apenas em ingles. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
19:36<avtobiff>ok. same same.
19:36<avtobiff>i suspected that.
19:37<rogi_cp1>dpkg: sei que é inglês... mas ninguém lá se habilita a transferir e compartilhar conhecimento!!! então estou tentando para ver se alguém entra lá em debian-br para me ajudar!
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19:41<dkr>dpkg es un roboto
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19:43<rogi_cp1>se és un roboto, puedes hablas en español??
19:43<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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19:44<rogi_cp1>puedes me ajudar con squid??
19:45<dondelelcaro>rogi_cp1: try asking in #debian-br here or on We can't help you in portugues here.
19:47<rogi_cp1>thaks for all help....
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19:52<Tarcas>Sorry... just lost my router. Apparely I have a dying hard drive which is why I'm building a new RAID5 server. Anyone know what log to look in for messages about a failing hard drive? I don't see a /var/log/smart.log or anything
19:53<Maulkin>Tarcas: anything in dmesg about I/O error?
19:53<Maulkin>Tarcas: you'll need smartd installed for smart to work
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19:56<panagos>is there a way to monitor net traffic by process?
19:56<Tarcas>Maulkin: I don't see any in the last 100 lines. ext3 did delete some inodes, but there seem to be no timestamps in that log.
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19:57<Maulkin>panagos: ntop, iptraf...
19:57<Maulkin>Tarcas: check /var/log/syslog. Install smartd
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20:01<Tarcas>Coulnd't find package smartd
20:03<gsimmons>Tarcas: It's in the 'smartmontools' package.
20:03-!-Guest2630 is now known as mentor
20:03<Tarcas>gsimmons, I just found that. Thanks!
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20:08<rogi_cps>j #debian-br
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20:17<Tarcas>Looks like default config should work for smartd?
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20:37<panagos>Maulkin: it seems ntop can't do what i want...
20:37<panagos>i want a program that can display network usage by PROCESS
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20:44<avtobiff>panagos, try jtop
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20:45<avtobiff>panagos, i mean jnettop (and it is implemented-in::c despite its name)
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20:45<avtobiff>captain jean-luc picard
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20:45<avtobiff>panagos, but i think that jnettop is what you have a craving for
20:45<panagos>avtobiff: ok, i'll have a look :)
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20:48<dcpurton>Does anyone happen to know if it's possible to transfer a wireless key from one gnome keyring to another?
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20:49<Tarcas>Your keyring should be private-key specific, so probably not, but I'm not an authority on how keyrings are implemented.
20:51<avtobiff>dcpurton, gpg --export --armor keybla > wirelesskey.asc
20:51<avtobiff>dcpurton, gpg --import wirelesskey.asc
20:51<avtobiff>should work
20:51<avtobiff>or what do you mean by differenc keyrings?
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20:53<panagos>avtobiff: that's cool, if only it could also show the process operating on each port...
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20:53<dcpurton>avtobiff: if you use libpam-gnome-keyring a keyring at ~/.gnome2/keyrings/login.keyring is unlocked and network manager stores keys in it
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20:54<dcpurton>avtobiff: previous bersions used to use ~/.gnome2/keyrings/default.keyring
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20:56<dcpurton>avtobiff: I have a heap of keys stored in default.keyring, which I have to unlock manually after I've logged in. Defeats the purpose of libpam-gnome-keyring.
20:56<dcpurton>avtobiff: And of course I can't remember all the keys to just delete default.keyring and start again
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20:57<luciano_uisk>hi folks
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20:58<luciano_uisk>just one thing
20:58<luciano_uisk>i am using an wireless card from d-link to connect on a network, wich the router is a d-link too
20:58<dcpurton>atvobiff: They aren't gpg keyrings - or at least the export command you suggested doen't work
20:58<luciano_uisk>sometimes my network falls down, and i dont know if it is because the router or the linux, ...
20:59<luciano_uisk>how can i see this thing?
20:59<luciano_uisk>is there some log file that i can check, or some command?
21:00<luciano_uisk>sometimes i try to access a web page from other PC in the net, hosted in this linux distro, and i cant do it, even if i can see the page in the linux PC, ..
21:00<luciano_uisk>anyone knows some way to check my connection?
21:00<luciano_uisk>i try ping, only
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21:02<avtobiff>dcpurton, i figured :-)
21:02<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, try /var/log/syslog
21:03<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, and check if you loose connection or something there.
21:03<luciano_uisk>sometimes i loose, yes, ..
21:03<luciano_uisk>and i dont know why, ..
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21:03<luciano_uisk>even ping doesnt work, ..
21:04<luciano_uisk>in my local network, ..
21:04<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, check if the interface is up with ifconfig
21:04<luciano_uisk>normally is, ..
21:04<avtobiff>and if it has correct configuration (ip number etc)
21:04<luciano_uisk>what is the difference between dmesg and syslog?
21:07<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, dmesg only prints the message buffer from the kernel.
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21:07<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, in short. syslog reports more in depth
21:07<luciano_uisk>and syslog?
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21:07<luciano_uisk>ah, ...
21:08<luciano_uisk>and other thing, ..
21:08-!-kmap [~kumar@] has quit []
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21:08<avtobiff>there are several logging levels and facilities for the kernel.
21:09<luciano_uisk>in the /etc/inittab i see a line about poweroff, calling a script called "poweroff"
21:09<luciano_uisk>but i didnt see it in my dostro, and not even in other distros
21:09<avtobiff>levels are for instance: info, debug, notice, warning, message etc. and facilities are for instance: daemon, mail, news, auth, kern, lpr, user
21:10<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, i dont quite follow you
21:10<luciano_uisk>ok, ..
21:10<avtobiff>what do you mean?
21:10<avtobiff>i dont have any "poweroff" script in my /etc/inittab
21:10<luciano_uisk># What to do when the power fails/returns.
21:10<luciano_uisk>pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start
21:11<luciano_uisk>this script, powerfail, i didnt see in my distro, ..
21:11<luciano_uisk>and i had never seen in any distro, ..
21:11<avtobiff>presumably it is for UPS
21:11<luciano_uisk>is this a script ?
21:11<avtobiff>it is a startup script yes
21:12<avtobiff>google is your friend mate :-)
21:12<avtobiff>powerthingie .-)
21:12<luciano_uisk>but it isnt in /etc/init.d
21:12<luciano_uisk>ok, thanks, ..
21:12<avtobiff>Uninterruptible Power Supply
21:12<luciano_uisk>well, thanks for the tip of syslog, ..
21:12<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, now. because you probably dont have any ups related packages installed.
21:12<avtobiff>luciano_uisk, if you dont know what an ups is, you dont have it
21:12<avtobiff>i btw have the powerfail etc scripts in my inittab
21:13<avtobiff>i bet they are there for easy "plug and pray" with UPS when installed
21:13<luciano_uisk>this have something to do with those no-breaks that can be monitored with te PC?
21:13<avtobiff>dont know
21:14<avtobiff>i am off to bed now. good luck!
21:14<luciano_uisk>i saw once a no-break manual that said that it had an interface for monitoring viaPC, ...
21:14<luciano_uisk>ok, thanks for all
21:14<luciano_uisk>good night
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21:57<chump_>hey guys i was wondering if any had come across a script that goes througha FS directory by directory giving the contents of that drive?
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21:58<ranix_>kind of like du?
21:58<ranix_>du -h
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22:00<Tarcas>chump, you mean something like ls -r
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22:04<chump_>i think you mean -R but yeah thats exactly what i'm looking for thanks Tarcas
22:04<jorje_villafan>Does anyone have any idea why my debian etch would randomly freeze
22:04<jorje_villafan>I have had it for 4 days and it has froze six times
22:06<jorje_villafan>when it freezes I have to power off from the box and after that it runs crummy
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22:06<jorje_villafan>I have reinstalled 3 times
22:07<chump_>hmm have you done a mem text?
22:07<jorje_villafan>I don't know what that is
22:07<jorje_villafan>I am extremely new to linux
22:08<jorje_villafan>I was going to try a rescue but I came to a page that I do not under stand
22:09<kmap_lab>How do I make the DejaVu fonts appear in the output of xlsfonts? I wish to use it in my XTerm.
22:10<kmap_lab>The ttf-dejavu package is installed, and the font is accessible from X applications
22:11<Tarcas>jorje_villafan: What page?
22:13<chump_>errr mem test**
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22:13<chump_>sorry i was watching the basketball game haha
22:13<jorje_villafan>"enter a device you wish to use as your root file system"
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22:14<jorje_villafan>it gives a list of 7 things
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22:14<Tarcas>The root file system is what's mounted as /. Unlike Windows you don't have C:\ and D:\, you just have /, and all your devices are mounted within that directory tree. It wants to know what partition to use as the root directory.
22:15<chump_>hey guys i had some issues last time i tried to install windows ona system i already had linux on, so as a refresher i installed linux on the back portion of the drive and left the front(40 gigs) empty as long as install windows i can then reinstall grub and it will run correct?
22:15<Tarcas>When you installed Etch, you told it to partition your drives (or use them as they were) but you also told it where to mount each. Choose the one you told it to use as /
22:17<Tarcas>chump_, yes. I recommend having Windows format the Windows partition, and then install Linux and grub after that, but if Linux is already there, it should work fine if you just reinstall grub.
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22:17<jorje_villafan>which selection should I choose
22:18<Tarcas>Choose the same one that you chose when you first installed.
22:19<chump_>Tarcas: yeah i'm really a fan the install i have going on right now haha
22:19<Tarcas>I could guess, but only the correct answer will work.
22:19<jorje_villafan>It doesn't give the same options
22:19<Tarcas>what options is it giving?
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22:21<jorje_villafan>it gives dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1
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22:22<Tarcas>Oh, my, it's using the 2.6 kernel path. Will it let you cd to /dev/ and look around?
22:22<jorje_villafan>I don't know
22:23<jorje_villafan>I do I find out
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22:23<jorje_villafan>woops, how do I find out
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22:24<Tarcas> jorje_villafan: at the command prompt type: cd /dev
22:24<Tarcas>do you know what device you originally told it to use?
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22:25<jorje_villafan>I am in the boot rescue mode
22:26<jorje_villafan>I can't type anything
22:26<Tarcas>can you press alt-F2 to get to another console?
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22:27<Tarcas>log in and do your commands from here. To get back to where you started press alt-F1
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22:29<jorje_villafan>so reboot the system, and login as I normaly would do?
22:29<Tarcas>I thought it wouldn't boot?
22:30<jorje_villafan>It will boot, but will misbehave, then crash after a few minutes
22:30<Tarcas>Stick with the rescue mode for now.
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22:32<jorje_villafan>so should I stay on the busy box screen?
22:32<Tarcas>I'm used to the CLI. Go to console 2 and we'll try to find the info you need.
22:33<jorje_villafan>I am there
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22:34<Tarcas>ok, cd /dev and then ls -al|more -- What you're looking for is the device that you mounted as root at install time.
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22:34<Tarcas>it'll likely look like sda1 or hda1
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22:35<Tarcas>Do you know which device you'd used as root?
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22:37<hax>is there anything that will eventually preclude me from upgrading from etch to whatever the next stable version is when it comes out? and do it live? ... apparently i can't do centos4->5 without physically being at the server
22:37<Tarcas>hax: all you have to do is change your apt source to the newer version, i.e. from stable to testing, or from etch to lenny. Upgrading is easy, downgrading is not.
22:37<hax>Tarcas: alright, that's what i thought
22:38<hax>just thought i'd be sure
22:38<Tarcas>hax: after that, just do an apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade
22:38<hax>Tarcas: ok cool, i know that's how it used to be, wasn't sure if it changed somewhere
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22:41<Tarcas>hax: I don't know of any change. That's how I upgraded from Sarge to Etch. Ran into a couple of issues with config file changes and new kernel versions switching my NICs around, but I think that was about it.
22:41<jorje_villafan>ok, I found hda1
22:42<hax>Tarcas: sounds good to me
22:42<jorje_villafan>that is the one I should choose on the othe page?
22:43<Tarcas>jorje_villafa: okay, what's the link beside it. should be something like what you'd typed above: /dev/ide/host0/part0......
22:43<Tarcas>jorje_villafa, yes. If hda1 is what you'd chosen before as /, the path beside that link it is what to choose.
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22:45<jorje_villafan>it gives me 5 options?
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22:45<Tarcas>pick exactly what was beside the symlink for hda1.
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22:45<Tarcas>should be the one with all the lowest numbers.
22:46<jorje_villafan>Sorry, I already did that I am on the next screen
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22:46<Tarcas>I don't know where you are. If you need help choosing me the right answer, you'll have to give me the question. ;-)
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22:48<jorje_villafan>the options are: execute shell in /dev/ide/host0...........,execute a shell in installer enviroment, reinstall grub boot loader, choose a different root file system, and reboot the system
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22:50<Tarcas>um... Go for the first one to make sure that's your correct root filesystem. I'd hate to have told you that you should mount /boot or your swap partition as root.
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22:57<jorje_villafan>ok, I have a blue screen with a command prompt at the bottom
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22:59<Tarcas>blue? What's it say?
23:01<jorje_villafan>the screen is blank with "sh-3.1#" at the bottom
23:01<jorje_villafan>oh and it says "rescue mode" at the top
23:02<Tarcas>okay. Check out your file system. Make sure it looks right. See if you're missing any files or directories that you know of. (cd /home/[your user id] should be pretty telling.
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23:08<jorje_villafan>when I type "cd /home" nothing happens
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23:08<Supaplex>did you press enter? is the cursor suspended in mid air?
23:08<Supaplex>I don't get how "nothing" actually happens.
23:08<jorje_villafan>when I type "cd /home/jonathan" I get "no such file or directory"
23:09<Supaplex>try ls -la /home
23:09<jorje_villafan>ok something happened there
23:10<Tarcas>Good sign, what happened?
23:10<jorje_villafan>I get "total 2"
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23:10<jorje_villafan>drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1024 jan 5 00:57
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23:11<jorje_villafan>drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 1024 jan 5 01"11..
23:11<jorje_villafan>thats it
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23:12<jorje_villafan>oh, and there is 1 . after the 00:57
23:12<Supaplex>looks like an empty /home to me. do you have a seperate filesystem that's suppose to be mounted there? cat /proc/partitions (and DO NOT paste it here, use a paste site like if you're so inclined)
23:13<Supaplex>barbie_girlz: Do you have a Debian related question?
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23:15<chump_>barbie_girlz: what are you ina debian chat room for then?
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23:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 309] by debhelper
23:19<jorje_villafan>welli typed it in with no luck
23:20<jorje_villafan>it says nosuch file or directory
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23:21<Tarcas>jorje_villafan: "cd /etc" and then "cat fstab | grep home"
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23:22<Tarcas>the result from that you may paste here.
23:22<Tarcas>it should be either one line or none.
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23:25<jorje_villafan>it says nosuch file or directory| grep home" i got
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23:26<jorje_villafan>this /dev/hda9 ?home ext3 defaults 0 2
23:27<Tarcas>that doesn't sound like you typed the command right. if you type "cat fstab" from the /etc directory, what do you see?
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23:28<jorje_villafan>sorry that previous line got messed up
23:28<Tarcas>Okay, you'll need to mount that before you can browse /home. The fact that the /etc/fstab file is even THERE indicates that you have the correct / mounted. Okay, you should be able to go back to your rescue program and install grub or whatever it is that you need to do from there.
23:28<Tarcas>Root problem is crashing followed by slowness, however, correct?
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23:29<jorje_villafan>yeah, crash, then not as much slow as just bad behaviour, then crash
23:31<jorje_villafan>the page I am on now the part of the rescue progam
23:31<chump_>for some reason mount /dev/sdc2 /mnt/temp is asking for a file system even though it hasn't asked me for this before but mount has done this on every fs i try and use
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23:36<Tarcas>jorje_villafan: If you have a CD burner, get out a blank CD and google "memtest86+" and download it and burn a CD. Boot your flakey Linux box off of that and let it run overnight. If it shows errors, you have bad memory. Bad behavior often comes from RAM or power problems, and RAM is the easier of the two to diagnose.
23:36<Tarcas>"bad" as in unusual, unexpected, atypical, and generally bizarre.
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23:39<jorje_villafan>windows will blend or be empty, then when I run my mouse over windows, the contents start to appear, but still without a background to the window
23:40<Tarcas>chump_, if the device is in your fstab, you shouldn't have to specify more than the device or the mount point. If it's not... I don't think the file system is necessary, it should autodetect. Is sdc2 formatted?
23:41<Tarcas>jorje_villafan: I can't say I've seen that behavior on a Linux box, but it happens under WinVNC all the time when the network can't keep up with what's being sent to the screen, or the refresh isn't set up like it should be. I'm out of my league on Linux graphics issues, but the memtest still wouldn't hurt.
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23:45<jorje_villafan>Well thank you for your assistance. I wiil get that cd and run it tonight.
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23:47<jorje_villafan>I just want to say that I have been on this debiian channel twice and you guys have been super helpful
23:47<jorje_villafan>Good night
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 10 00:00:10 2008