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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-07-18

---Logopened Fri Jul 18 00:00:07 2008
---Daychanged Fri Jul 18 2008
00:00<Fred>Ah !
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00:07<Steven_M>does any know whether there's a deb package for a driver for this tv tuner card?
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00:27<Steven_M>does any know whether there's a deb package for a driver for this tv tuner card?
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00:28<mcsniff>I doubt it, what chipset is it?
00:31<gsimmons>Steven_M: According to the Linux DVB wiki, there is support for this device in the kernel since 2.6.12.
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00:34<Steven_M>gsimmons: so I wouldn't have to install anything apart from the player?
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00:37<mcsniff>check dmesg and see if it has been detected
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00:37<gsimmons>Steven_M: No, although you may need to install a later kernel (ie. > 2.6.18) or experimental V4L-DVB code in order to enable use of the hardware MPEG encoder.
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00:42<rodolfo>Sysinfo for 'rc5': Linux 2.6.18-6-686 running KDE 3.5.5, CPU: Intel(R)Core2CPUT5500@1.66GHz at 1662 MHz (3325 bogomips), , RAM: 379/2018MB, 97 proc's, 1.47h up
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00:44<Steven_M>gsimmons: would this kernel be ok?
00:45<Steven_M>hang on
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00:46<gsimmons>Steven_M: You'd want to join #sidux for assistance with your distribution.
00:47<Steven_M>gsimmons: sidux is based off debian sid though
00:48<blarson>!based on debian
00:48<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it probably falls short of Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. If your distribution has an IRC channel, you can use it instead. Even if your distribution has fewer people in its IRC channel, or doesn't have one, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian.
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01:34<shivraj>whats the best mouse driver to use with a microsoft optical mouse ?
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01:36<shivraj>or is there a way to improve mouse performance in gnome ?
01:36<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>shivraj: you can change the mouse options
01:38<shivraj>GhostlyDeath|Laptop : where ? in gnome acceleration / sensitivity ?
01:38<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>shivraj: or would you mean DPI?
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01:41<shivraj>GhostlyDeath|Laptop : whats dpi ?
01:41<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>shivraj: Dots per inch
01:42<shivraj>for the mouse ?
01:42<JavonR>its like mouse scanning resolution
01:42<shivraj>well how do I change that ?
01:42<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>Only for infra red mouse though
01:42<GhostlyDeath|Laptop>shivraj: I don't have a mouse =S
01:42<shivraj>its an optical mouse
01:42<JavonR>no, laser and optical
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01:43<JavonR>it will either have a button right on the mouse itself for adjustment, or you can adjust it through the mouse software
01:43<JavonR>if not just up your sensitivity
01:43<JavonR>won't notice much difference
01:43<shivraj>what about video performance ?
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01:43<shivraj>I have an ATI x1800, I hear Nvidia has better linux drivers
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01:44<JavonR>mouse dpi has nothing to do with video performance :)
01:44<JavonR>but yeah, nvidia usually has better drivers
01:44<shivraj>I know /..
01:44<dondelelcaro>depends on the actual card
01:44<shivraj>yeah but ATI drivers really suck
01:45<shivraj>I drag a window and its nasty
01:45<shivraj>or is that just gnome ?
01:45<JavonR>sounds like you got the wrong drivers installed
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01:45<shivraj>I am using vesa for this ATI
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01:46<jm_>well doh
01:46<shivraj>what should I be using ?
01:46<shivraj>fglrx ?
01:47<shivraj>is there a way to reconfigure to another driver in Debian ?
01:47<jm_>probably, radeon driver in lenny doesn't seem to be able to handle that card
01:47<shivraj>no radeon is old I belive
01:47<shivraj>old cards
01:47<jm_>no, they keep working on it
01:49<shivraj>so whats the best driver to use ?
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01:53<vook>shivraj: did you try using the driver at
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01:55<shivraj>vook nope
01:55*vook said driver, for shame.
01:55<shivraj>I change vesa to ati
01:56<shivraj>I think its using the ati ... opensource
01:56<vook>shivraj: ati has a proprietary download (updated June 18th) for your card.
01:57<shivraj>vook : ok
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01:59<syntax>Is bo still supported?
02:00<syntax>alright, that wassn't as good as yesterdays
02:00<syntax>anyone need help?
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02:02<vook>I'd like to get a graphical mouse cursor for my console (like in BSD). I can't seem to find anything about it in linux though.
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02:04<shivraj>vook : gdm
02:04<shivraj>vook : oops gdm
02:04<shivraj>oops gpm
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02:05<vook>shivraj: I have gpm, but I'd like a true arrow-like cursor. It's just a block currently.
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02:08<rrm>how can i add usb flash drive support to etch?
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02:08<dpkg>well, pmount is "policy mount", an application to make it easier to (un)mount removable media such as USB flash memory sticks. e.g. as normal user, "pmount sda1" mounts it at /media/sda1. no superuser. no need to create a mount point. nb you'll need to be in the plugdev group (but you'll know that from /usr/share/doc/pmount).
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02:09<mtnman>!tell rrm about usb storage
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02:12<rrm>mtnman thanks but that is beyond me.. anything i can use with apt-get
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02:13<mtnman>rrm it seems you will need to load modules.
02:13<mtnman>rrm i.e. "modprobe usb-storage sd_mod"
02:14<mtnman>you will also need to mount the partition.
02:14<rrm>mtnman... i did a clean install base+xorg
02:15<rrm>+gnome-core and gnome-system-tools
02:15<mtnman>that is not relevant information.
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02:17<rrm>mtnman: more i do not know
02:17<mtnman>rrm do you want to know more?
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02:18<rrm>mtnman: sure
02:18<mtnman>rrm are you willing to read?
02:19<rrm>mtnman: sure... but will i get more confused?
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02:20<mtnman>depends on your reading ability. you will want to read manpages for modprobe, mount and fstab. then folloow the instructions from dpkg regarding usb-storage.
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02:22<Lounge>well there ya have it
02:22<Lounge>added that new cert thingy
02:22<mtnman>rrm if you still have trouble come back and ask a specific question. bonus points if your question shows that you have read the docs.
02:22<rrm>mtnman: I think i pass and do a google search...
02:23<mtnman>rrm i am pointing you to the information you need. google will not be so specific.
02:23<shivraj>rrm : do you even know what dpkg is ?
02:24<mtnman>shivraj i had the bot tell him about usb storage
02:24<shivraj>oh ok
02:24<rrm>yeah to configure packages
02:24<rrm>i used it for dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
02:24<mtnman>shivraj if you want to walk him through it, feel free. i have no patience for people who are reluctant to read a couple of manpages.
02:24<shivraj>rrm: hehe its also a bot here
02:24<mtnman>rrm dpkg is also a helpful bot on this channel
02:25<shivraj>thats the one that sent you the info
02:25<mtnman>!tell rrm about usb storage
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02:25<rrm>mtnman: i got it
02:25<rrm>with synaptic there was something called usb mount
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02:26<mtnman>!tell rrm about usb mount
02:26<mtnman>apparently it also exists in debian
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02:27<mtnman>apparently it does not work with vfat file systems (as most usb sticks are formatted by default)
02:27<mtnman>apparently there is a workaround for vfat filesystems.
02:27<Lounge>strange that you say that
02:27<jm_>it works just fine
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02:28<jm_>(after you edit the config file that is)
02:28<mtnman>jm_ that is the workaround
02:28*infotron fans the stench of the lunch burrito after effects towards YOU
02:29<jm_>probably better to just use autofs
02:29<mtnman>jm_ well i don't use usb storage. i was trying to help out rrm. you can feel free to take over if you wish.
02:29<Lounge>well don't know about usb i managed to get a 4.4gb truecrypt container file onto dvd 2day for the first time
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02:30<jm_>mtnman: naah, you did your job perfectly fine
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02:30<ExC|Enelya>guten morgen zusammen
02:30<mtnman>jm_ well i'm not so sure that he gets it.
02:31<jm_>mtnman: that's because of a typicall newbie attitude: "things are complicated, reading will confuse me even more"
02:31<rrm>i do not, since u seem to look at me as a newb, wich i am, but to me this seems to simple, not to read a whole manual
02:32<mtnman>jm_ i think also that too much phone support causes people to expect the same treatment here.
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02:32<mtnman>i.e. the expectation that someone will hold thier hand and walk them thru it.
02:33<mtnman>rrm well if you want to use debian effectively, it will involve much reading.l
02:34<kingsley>Which command, if any, can find all packages on a system which are "essential"?
02:34<mtnman>you see rrm, if you take the time to read some docs, people you will find that people will be more eager to help you.
02:35<jm_>kingsley: dpkg, aptitude, ...
02:35<jm_>grep-status, dpkg-awk
02:35<rrm>i am not trying to sound as an ass, but so far i could install mad wifi from source, did base install, with edit the sources.list, reconfig xorg, added support for atheros wifi, so i am not a dumy
02:35<kingsley>jm_: OK, thanks.
02:36<mtnman>rrm so why are you unwilling to read a couple of pages of docs?
02:36<mtnman>rrm you could have probably been about halfway through the three pages i mentioned.
02:36<rrm>i am willing, but the info you gave me is something i did not get so far
02:37<mtnman>rrm ok you will need a few things. first is the modprobe command. read man modprobe and load the modules i had dpkg (the bot tell you about earlier)
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02:38<mtnman>rrm or you can try the usb mount you mentioned earlier
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02:38<mtnman>rrm /msg dpkg usb mount (send the bot a message) and you will get info regarding that command.
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02:39<mtnman>rrm is that confusing you?
02:40<rrm>well... so far it seems that the usb storage is not present on my system
02:40<mtnman>rrm yes you need to load modules (drivers) to enable it. apparently the usb mount you asked about does this for you.
02:41<mtnman>rrm did you read the factoid regarding usb mount?
02:41<rrm>i am at modprobe man
02:42<mtnman>rrm okay well apparently if you apt-get install usbmount it will do the modprobe for you. but it is good to understand what is happening.
02:44<rrm>i need to reboot, since usb mount needs that... will b back... hopefully the skies will be calmer
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02:51<Lounge>so err i read an article on hidden volumes and the us customs agents and how they search laptops for encrypted partitions
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02:52<Lounge>sometimes by making images of your partitions or even the whole drive before leaving the country
02:52<Lounge>and then taking a second image after returning back to the country
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02:53<Lounge>and comparing to two - to see if sector within the trucrypt volumes changed
02:53<rrm>nothing worked
02:53<pharm>Is there something wrong with udev in unstable?
02:53<Lounge>this is a way for them to conclude that there are hidden volumes
02:53<mtnman>rrm try rephrasing as a question.
02:54<pharm>The permissions seem to have gone all screwy: /dev/null is not read/writable by all for a start!
02:54<rrm>Why nothing worked?
02:54<mtnman>rrm it would be helpful to say what you tried to solve your problem.
02:55<jm_>pharm: yes there is
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02:55<mtnman>"nothing works" doesn't give us much to go on.
02:55<jm_>well not udev specifically
02:55<mtnman>rrm the trick to getting good help is to make it easy to help you.
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02:55<pharm>jm_: Any pointers?
02:55<rrm>ok... under mnt dir i get all these usb dir as in usb0 usb1 etc to usb7
02:56<jm_>pharm: it's in BTS, first hit on google
02:56<mtnman>rrm those are sort of stubs, so you can mount things there at some future point.
02:56<devil>pharm: we had this problem in unstable the other day
02:56<mtnman>rrm did you apt-get or modprobe anything?
02:56<rrm>sorry not mnt, but media
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02:57<devil>pharm: dmsetup and lsb-base were totaly b0rked
02:57<devil>pharm: packages are fixed now
02:57<rrm>i did try
02:58<devil>pharm: can you still boot?
02:58<mtnman>what did you try? come on man.
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02:59<pharm>devil: yup
02:59<devil>pharm: then upgrading those 2 should do the job
02:59<devil>pharm: maybe your initrd is broken as well, you would then need to update that
03:00<devil>pharm: but you seem to have gotten lucky, many users were stuck in busybox
03:01<pharm>I don't use lvm or raid, so maybe that's why I could still boot?
03:01<rrm>i honestly tried nothing since all the info you provide is way more then the simple task i try to get to... i will search far that was the best so far
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03:02<mtnman>rrm well you asked about a command called usbmount which you used on another distro. it exitsts in debian. you need to apt-get install usbmount and edit some config files as is explained in the readme file of that package.
03:03<pharm>devil: Are the new packages still in incoming?
03:03<devil>pharm: no, in unstable
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03:04<rrm>is this relevant? can i paste a link in here?
03:04<devil>pharm: dmsetup 1.02.27-3 and lsb-base 3.2-15
03:05<pharm>hmm. At, I can see dmsetup 2:1.02.27-2 and lsb-base 3.2-15, which are precisely the versions I have installed on this machine.
03:05<pharm>dmsetup 1.02.27-3 only seems to be available for amd64
03:05<devil>pharm: ups
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03:06<devil>pharm: you are right
03:06<devil>pharm: read here:
03:07<devil>pharm: sry,
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03:11<rrm>i give up
03:12<mtnman>rrm i was about to give up on you but i will try once more if you are willing.
03:14<pharm>devil: Right, well I've fixed the permissions issue. Crossed fingers things will work until the i386 packages hit unstable!
03:15<pharm>devil: Thanks for your help.
03:15<devil>pharm: np
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03:17<rrm>mtnman: is ok
03:17<mtnman>rrm what is ok?
03:18<rrm>mtnman: i said is ok... will pass on the offer. will try to find other ways.
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03:21<mtnman>well i guess you can lead a horse to water...
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04:09<ExC|Enelya>weg friseur
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04:14<Woet>my server has around 100 of those blocks
04:14<Woet>what's wrong!?
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04:14<Woet>what does it do, and why does it need ~ 500 processes?
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04:22<hachi>bzr is so slow
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05:16<eclissedomar>qualcuno conosce metasploit?
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05:18<Woet>[10:14:19] <Woet>
05:18<Woet>[10:14:26] <Woet> my server has around 100 of those blocks
05:18<Woet>[10:14:28] <Woet> what's wrong!?
05:18<Woet>[10:14:41] <Woet> what does it do, and why does it need ~ 500 processes?
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05:51<LinBe>hi there, can someone help? update of linux gives no go ...
05:52<LinBe>E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f insta a solution).
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05:53<themill>LinBe: can you pastebin the entire output, including the command you gave? Also "dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1" and apt-cache policy <packagename> for the package you tried to install.
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05:54<Woet>themill: you dont have any idea about courier?
05:54<themill>Woet: never touched it
05:54<Woet>its on debian by default I assume
05:55<Woet>with what software does it come then?
05:55<Woet>im quite sure I didnt install it
05:55<LinBe>ok, I will do, but there is an update running now...
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05:58<LinBe>root@4[knoppix]# apt-get install podracer
05:58<LinBe>E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)
05:58<LinBe>E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
05:58<ax>hi to all,i am having lenny installed in my system but there is no file named as /etc/ to create it
06:00<ax>LinBe:either you have opened synaptic manager as well tring at same time apt-get install...
06:00<ax>LinBe:run this command ..rm -rf /var/lib/dpkg/lock
06:00<petemc>thats a bit presumptuous
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06:01<ax>LinBe:close synaptic and run command
06:01<ax>how to generate modprobe.conf file??
06:02<gsimmons>ax: man modprobe; see /etc/modprobe.d/*
06:02<LinBe>Errors were encountered while processing:
06:02<LinBe> /var/cache/apt/archives/cupsys-bsd_1.3.7-7_all.deb
06:02<LinBe>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
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06:02<Woet>[12:02:15] #flood unable to join channel (invite only)
06:02<Woet>really useful indeed
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06:02<petemc>Woet: noone uses flood any more, use a pastebin website
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06:03<ax>gsimmons:thanks i thought it is compulsary to require to that my system folder is available
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06:04<ax>hi to to rename Volume name ??
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06:05<ax>on my desktop disk has names /mnt/xyz..i want to change it to debian1 debian2 can i do it??
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06:13<mastroquet>ax: why not 1-unmount, 2-create new mount points, 3-edit /etc/fstab, 4-remount ?
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06:14<ax>masteroquet:after changing mountpoint also on desktop label name comes as /path/to/mountpoint place of that i want debian1 debian2 etc..
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06:16<carax>ax: gnome?
06:16<ax>carax:yes i am using gnome.
06:17<carax>right-click and label? (or possibly gconf-editor)
06:17<mastroquet>ax: not sure I understand what you want, but if you mount them in / the path will be shorter... ;) (ok, i'm out...;))
06:18<ax>carax:thereis nothing after right clicking named as label..
06:19<ax>masteroquet :i dont want display name in form of path just debian1 debian2 like in windows cdrive ddrive etc.
06:21<mastroquet>ax : display in nautilus or something like that you mean?
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06:22<ax>masteroquet:yes in nautilus display
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06:25<ax>in lenny missing /etc/ file
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06:26<filenox>can somebody say what the filetype extension is in the /bin/ directory ?
06:27<petemc>extensions are meaningless
06:27<petemc>the files in there are generally binaries
06:27<filenox>but i want to create a command
06:27<filenox>it doesn't work :d
06:27<petemc>is it executable?
06:27<petemc>chmod +x yourfile
06:27<Bearman>chmod +x file ??
06:28<filenox>how can i make it executable ?
06:28<filenox>i have the rights
06:28<TBBle>So if it doesn't work, what does it do?
06:28<filenox>look it's quite simpel, if i type 'debian' in the terminal --> scrot should take a screenshot
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06:30<petemc>filenox: a symlink to the scrot binary would work for that - what method have you used?
06:30<filenox>i made a .sh script
06:30<petemc>pastebin its contents, and the output of ls -la yourscrupt
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06:31<TBBle>Also, if you want it to work when you type 'debian', it has to be called 'debian', not ''
06:31<petemc>that, too
06:31<petemc>why not just type 'scrot' ?
06:31<filenox>yes ! but if i call it debian, it isn't a script anymore, just a text-file
06:31<filenox>just want to try sometihng ;)
06:31<petemc>filenox: extensions are meaningless
06:31<TBBle>filenox: That's what chmod +x does.
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06:32<gnumm>do i only have to add "contrib" and "non-free" behind "main" in sources.list when i want to add these repos?
06:32<TBBle>chmod +x tells the computer it's an executable. The first line (#!/bin/sh or similar) tells it it's a script.
06:32<dondelelcaro>gnumm: yes
06:32<gnumm>do i need a gpg ?
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06:33<filenox>that was the trick ! (/bin/sh)
06:33<TBBle>gnumm: Not if you're adding them to an existing line. They should be signed by the same key.
06:33<TBBle>filenox: Excellent.
06:34<gnumm>it works
06:34<TBBle>gnumm: Also excellent.
06:34<gnumm>can i uncomment the debian cd in sources.list?
06:34<filenox>thx ! and bye ;)
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06:35<Bearman>gnumm: yes
06:35<TBBle>gnumm: Unless you commented it out yourself earlier, prolly easier to use apt-cdrom to add the appropriate line.
06:36<gnumm>when i want to install tuxguitar, apt also wants to install sudo and synaptic, why?
06:37<TBBle>That's a little weird.
06:37<gnumm>tuxguitar needs gnome stuff
06:37<gnumm>but why synaptic and sudo?
06:37<TBBle>Try "apt-cache show tuxguitar" and see if they're direct dependancies.
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06:38<TBBle>If not, try apt-get install tuxguitar sudo- synaptic-
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06:38<TBBle>Assuming you're using apt-get. I dunno how you do that in aptitude, the same thing might work.
06:38<gnumm>they aren't direct depencies, i think it's because of that gnome stuff
06:38<gnumm>yes apt-get
06:39<TBBle>Huh. Tuxguitar in unstable doesn't appear to rely on Gnome at all.
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06:39<TBBle>Being as how it's a Java app, I'm not surprised... Unless libswt3.2-gtk-java is pulling Gnome in?
06:39<gnumm>no, here also, sory i said crap
06:40<gnumm>Depends: java-gcj-compat | sun-java6-jre | sun-java5-jre | java-virtual-machine, libswt3.2-gtk-java, libitext-java
06:40<gnumm>it only needs this
06:41<gnumm>what shall i do now?
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06:41<TBBle>Did my earlier apt-get command work?
06:42<gnumm>yes, apt just won't install sudo and synaptic
06:43<gnumm>would not
06:43<dondelelcaro>gnumm: if you give us the full output of your apt-get run, we'd be able to at least start helping you.
06:43<TBBle>Odd then. I expected it to complain about whatever it was that was pulling those in. I guess they're Recommends somewhere.
06:43<dondelelcaro>!tell gnumm -about bat
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06:44<TBBle>Why on earth is that hint under "bat"?
06:44<gsimmons>!literal bat
06:44<dpkg>"bat" is "<reply> see basic apt-get troubleshooting"
06:44<dondelelcaro>because I don't like to type
06:44<TBBle>Ah, right.
06:45<gnumm>it's in german
06:45<dondelelcaro>gnumm: so use LANG=C apt-get blah blah blah
06:46<gnumm>what does "LANG=C" ?
06:46<gnumm>change to english?
06:46<dondelelcaro>it means use the C locale, which happens to be in english
06:46<dondelelcaro>you could also use LANG=en_US, but that's more typing
06:47<dondelelcaro>(and you may not have the en_US locale, whereas you're guaranteed to have the C locale)
06:47<gnumm>ah good to know :)
06:47<gnumm>ok here it is in english:
06:47<dondelelcaro>gnumm: ok, and what's the problem?
06:48<gnumm>wheni want to install tuxguitar, it wants to install sudo and synaptic, i can#t understand why
06:48<gnumm>i use kde
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06:49<gnumm>"Need to get 53.5MB/54.5MB of archives." <- what does that mean?
06:50<dondelelcaro>gnumm: it needs to download 53.5M, 1M of which you already have
06:50<gnumm>ah ok
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06:50<dondelelcaro>gnumm: most likely it's the recommends tree from libswt3.2-gtk-jni
06:50<dondelelcaro>gnumm: which leads to libgnomevfs2-0, which leads to gnome-mount, which leads to chunks of gnome
06:50<dpkg>To list uninstalled recommended or suggested packages: aptitude search '~RBrecommends:~i!~i'; upgradeable packages: aptitude search '~U'; manually installed packages: aptitude search '~i!~M'; install without recommends but not uninstalling other recommends: aptitude install -R -o Aptitude::Keep-Recommends=true
06:51<gnumm>ok, so it's not a problem to let apt install this and then remove sudo and synaptic?
06:51<dondelelcaro>gnumm: but if you really want to know why, run aptitude why synaptic
06:51<themill>gnumm: you could try: aptitude install -R -o Aptitude::Keep-Recommends=true tuxguitar
06:51<gnumm>can i mix apt-get and synaptic?
06:51<gnumm>sry, i mean apt-get and aptitude
06:51<dondelelcaro>gnumm: yes, but you probably should just start using aptitude in preference to apt-get.
06:52<gnumm>also on debian testing? on sid they said i should use apt-get
06:52<dondelelcaro>uh... whoever told you that didn't know what they were saying
06:52<dondelelcaro>you should generally use aptitude everywhere
06:52<dondelelcaro>!why aptitude
06:52<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
06:53<gnumm>i installed3 programs withapt-get, can i use aptitude?
06:53<gnumm>in the future
06:53<jm_>doesn't apt-get also install unwanted dependencies these days?
06:53<dondelelcaro>jm_: yes, but it's still no where near as powerful as aptitude
06:53<dondelelcaro>(and that support is only in testing and unstable)
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06:56<gnumm>you know the distribution sidux(based on debian sid)?
06:56<dondelelcaro>we know it, but we don't support it here
06:56<gnumm>they said "never use aptitude, adept, synaptic etc....only apt-get
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06:57<dondelelcaro>whoever told you that doesn't know what they're talking about
06:57<themill>(they're right about adept though...)
06:57<dondelelcaro>heh; didn't even notice adept in that list
07:01<gnumm>i installed debian with kde, toinstall gnome is it apt-get/aptitude install gnome?
07:01<jm_>!install gnome
07:01<dpkg>To install GNOME on sarge or later, install the 'gnome' package to install everything, the 'gnome-desktop-environment' package for slightly less stuff, or the 'gnome-core' package for even less. You will need X installed as well, ask me about <set up x>.
07:02<gnumm>thanks :)
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07:02<gnumm>and can i get kde look in gnome apps?
07:03<jm_>does kde use clearlooks theme?
07:03<gnumm>don't know
07:03<gnumm>iceweasel i s ugly grey
07:03<jm_>you need iceweasel 3 for more native look - there's clearlooks theme for gtk
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07:19<gnumm>isn't there a package like "gtk-qt-engine", in other debian based distribution gnome apps looked like kde apps(i use kde)
07:20<gnumm>and after installing that package, i had a tab in the controlcenter called "gtk styles..." or something like that
07:21<gnumm>there i could choose qtcurve for gnome apps
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07:24<jm_>!tell gnumm -about search
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07:42<Cyorxamp>I'm a debian etch user... My evil dell uses a 82801 intel audio chip, as such snd_hda_intel is what I need (and is installed)... only lspci lists it as unknown - which I think is why alsaconf doesn't pick it up. Any way of resolving that?
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07:43<jm_>install new pci.ids
07:44<Cyorxamp>is that a debian package in backports or something?
07:44<jm_>man update-pciids
07:44<jm_>but i doubt that's the problem
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07:44<Cyorxamp>wow it knows what they are now
07:44<ax>how to rename disc name given by nautilus??/
07:45<Cyorxamp>jm_, you're right alsaconf still doesn't pick it up
07:45<jm_>Cyorxamp: you most likely need a newer kernel
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07:45<Cyorxamp>jm_, why? the module this chip uses this kernel already has
07:46<jm_>Cyorxamp: uhm it was also in 2.6.10 but that doesn't mean it supports all hardware it's used for
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07:47<Cyorxamp>so could I get a later version of that module and compile it in you thnk?
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07:47<Cyorxamp>wherever the snd_hda_intel project is located :S
07:47<jm_>that's an option too
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07:48<jm_>it's part of ALSA, so I suggest get newer kernel instead
07:48<Cyorxamp>any ideas off top of your head?
07:48<Cyorxamp>oh alsa
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07:48<Cyorxamp>I want to keep etch jm_
07:48<jm_>Cyorxamp: there are newer kernels for etch
07:48<Cyorxamp>that won't break apt?
07:48<jm_>and etchnhalf
07:49<Cyorxamp>what on earth is that
07:49<Cyorxamp>this is new news to me :D
07:49<jm_>!tell Cyorxamp about etchnhalf
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07:49<Cyorxamp>jm_, won't that just be r4 ?
07:50<Cyorxamp>is it technically viewed as 'testing' or 'unstable' in any way?
07:50<jm_>Cyorxamp: no idea about that
07:50<jm_>it's stable though
07:51<Cyorxamp>The current plan for Etch And A Half is to release as part of a point release (4.0r4).
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07:52<gnumm>will apt-get install gnome
07:52<gnumm>install gnome in english?
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07:53<mdev>anyway to get rid of the siocderl message when using /etc/init.d/networking restart
07:54<mdev>i have made the change in sysctl
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07:57<visik7>is there a way to pin a specific external non official repository ?
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08:01<Txt-file>wisik7: an entry in synaptic -> repositories or edit the sources.lst
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08:14<jho>hi. is it possible to install debian on a computer without a cd drive using the dvd isos or am i stuck using netinst? i'm asking since my internet's not particularly fast.
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08:14<Guest8>jho: Does it have USB?
08:15<the-dude>jho: thats possible or perhaps usb
08:15<Guest8>jho: can it boot to USB?
08:15<the-dude>bootable usbstick/card
08:15<Guest8>jho: Because if it can, borrow's someone USB Drive or make your own
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08:15<Guest8>jho: External hard drives and such are really adpated internal hardware
08:15<jho>will it work just like a cd if i use usb?
08:16<Guest8>jho: what usb media is it?
08:16<Guest8>If you use an external CD Drive or externalized one then yes it will work like a CD
08:16<Guest8>if you have a flash drive however, you need to get it prepped for debian installation
08:16<jho>just a usb key
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08:16<Guest8>means wiping all of it
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08:19<Guest8>jho: look around here
08:19<jho>ah yep i've got it thanks
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08:26<Guest8>Hi to you too
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08:31<mdev>how can i get rid of siocdelrt after /etc/init.d/networking restart
08:32<mdev>i made the change to sysctl and not use options
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08:42<nobie>hi guy ~
08:44<nobie>how to upgrade to the latest gnome 2.22 ? anybody can help / info ?
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08:44<Txt-file>nobie: what debian do you have?
08:44<nobie>etch 4.0
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08:45<nobie>right now , gnome version 2.14
08:47<Txt-file>nobie: I know to ways: the easy way is a upgrade to lenny
08:47<themill>nobie: it's probably not worth it unless you have a really really good reason to want a newer gnome.
08:48<nobie>Txt-file : what the different between etch and lenny ?
08:49<Txt-file>etch is a stable system ... lenny is testing
08:49<nobie>themill : hmm u truly right man . better wait and see ;)
08:49<Txt-file>nobie: and should not used for productive pc's
08:51<nobie>Txt-file : thank 4 info . i prefer stable . nothing much to do wit' pc . just surfing + downloading :)
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08:51<Txt-file>nobie: that's right
08:52<nobie>did anybody know the software that show the memory status , etc that show it on the desktop ? it will be cool
08:53<petemc> gkrellm, is one
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08:54<nobie>thank petemc will test it ;)
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08:58<Netcat>hello, can someone help me with fluxbox?? i need a tutorial about the instalation of themes for fluxbox.
08:59<avu>Netcat, have you checked ?
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09:03<Netcat>yes, but i dont thought nothing about the instalation of themes, only download... i will search more... thanks...
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09:07<nobie>gtg guy . thank for the info ~ c yas !
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09:14<mastroquet>Netcat: put them into ~/.fluxbox/styles
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09:20<pbn>Hello. aptitude update on Debian lenny takes like, 30 minutes instead of 40 seconds. Is that a known issue ?
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09:36<Txt-file>pbn: test apt-get update
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09:54<sjell>hi is there anyone from POland?
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09:56<noflash>sjell, try on
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10:30<gnumm>what shall do i do that the unix printer system doesn't start when i boot
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10:30<Txt-file>have you wine?
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10:33<gnumm>why wine?
10:34<gnumm>it's that "common unix printer system, cupsd" i do not nned
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10:34<gnumm>what shall i do that cupsd will not start when i boot my debian?
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10:36<Txt-file>gnumm: I have deinstalled cups at my pc and then I wanted to install wine ... wine need cups
10:36<eddieB>is there a way to delete a directory without manually deleting everything in it first?
10:37<gnumm>ypu must not uninstall it
10:37<gnumm>it's enough when it's not loaded when you boot
10:37<cahoot>gnumm: you can just remove it from startup scripts - man udate-rc.d
10:37<cahoot>err update-rc.d
10:37<Torsten_W>eddieB: rm -rf /Path/to/Dir
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10:37<eddieB>Torsten_W: thanks
10:37<Txt-file>eddieB: rm -rI ... but think before you delete anything
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10:38<eddieB>so rm -rI or rm -rf?
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10:39<Txt-file>-r is the command for recursive delete
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10:39<gnumm>cahoot: maybe i will have a printer one day, can i just "disable" it instaed of removing it?
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10:40<eddieB>Txt-file: so do "rm -rf" and "rm -rI" do the same thing?
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10:40<Torsten_W>gnumm: update-rc-d cups remove
10:41<Torsten_W>gnumm: or update-rc.d -f cups remove
10:41<cahoot>gnumm: cupsys?
10:41<Txt-file>eddieb: -rI askes you befor it delete anything
10:41<eddieB>Txt-file: okay. thanks
10:41<Txt-file>eddieb: please see rm --help
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10:42<gnumm>i just do not want that cupds loads when i boot debian (common unix printer system)
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10:42<gnumm>but i do nit want to remove anything, because maybe i will have a printer
10:42<gnumm>but for the moment i don't
10:42<cahoot>gnumm: right - so you need remove the startup command
10:42<Torsten_W>[16:41:03] <Torsten_W> gnumm: or update-rc.d -f cups remove
10:43<gnumm>and shall idowhen i have a printer and that script is removed?
10:43<Torsten_W>gnumm: update-rc.d cups default
10:43<cahoot>gnumm: what you really do is just removing a symlink, easily recreated when needed
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10:50<eddieB>Torsten_W: while trying to figure out an easy way to delete directories, i sent a directory to the 'Trash' in vnc. how can i delete that directory? i tried locate but it says it's in the same directory it was. only it's not
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10:52<pumpkin0>eddieB: locate uses a cached copy of the file-tree. It is not searching against the current files but against the DB (updated at night. usually)
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10:53<eddieB>pumpkin0: do you know how i can get into the Trash directory?
10:53<pumpkin0>eddieB: try "~/Thrash"
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10:54<pumpkin0>eddieB: sorry, typos... : "~/.Trash"
10:54<eddieB>pumpkin0: /.Trash: No such file or directory
10:55<eddieB>themill: found it. thanks
10:56<pumpkin0>eddieB: btw.: "find" will search against the current filetree.
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10:56<eddieB>pumpkin0: cool. thanks
10:57<pumpkin0>find /dir/you/want/to/search -iname "*part-of-the-file-name*". Case does not matter.
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10:58<Netcat>or find /path/ | grep "part-of"
10:58<themill>or use locate :)
10:58<Hideo>updatedb before locate
10:59<eddieB>Hideo: how do i do that?
10:59<themill>that's what cron is for
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10:59<Hideo>themill: the problem is his locate couldn't find the recent file he was looking for
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10:59<themill>ahh... I hadn't read back far enough.... good point
10:59*themill goes back to ignoring irc
11:00<pumpkin0>eddieB: just run "updatedb" from root. it takes some time...
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11:03<mordy_>i'm thinking maybe fglrx messed up something - i'm trying to figure out exactly what it di
11:05<Netcat>to modify permissions of result just "find /path/ | grep ".mp3$" | while read $i; do chmod 777 $i; done" =)
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11:07<enouf>mordy_: there's a #debian-amd64 here too - try that maybe - but mordy_: yo - you used a .run file, right? try to find out on ati channels what that does .. then fix it
11:07<vox>fglrx trouble here too ... anyone know how to load the ati drivers instead of mesa glx indirect? fglrxinfo shows the latter
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11:08<enouf>mordy_: see if there's some proprietary kernel module it made that's loading and giving you the radeonfb woes - also check the BTS and google
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11:09<pumpkin0>vox: which card do you use ?
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11:10<pumpkin0>vox: install and use the radeon driver. which debian do you use ? etch or lenny ?
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11:11<vox>you mean the proprietary installer?
11:11<pumpkin0>vox: that should use xserver-xorg-video-radeon
11:11<pumpkin0>vortex: no, the opensoucre radeon driver.
11:11<vox>excellent - let me look for that. thanks pumpkin0
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11:13<vox>hmm...xserver-xorg-video-radeon is already the newest version.
11:13<pumpkin0>vox: ok, then check /etc/x11/xorg.conf if it loads the driver ...
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11:14<vox>ok - whats the exact name?
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11:14<pumpkin0>vox: chnage "fglrx" into "radeon"
11:15<vox>i see -- yes it is fglrx
11:15<vox>let me try that
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11:25<stacy>hello all. I am a newb who has just completed a debian etch net install, where the net part didn't work out. Every mirror I tried just gave me a 'bad mirror!' message. The base system is up and working, but is there some way I can get and install whatever standard packages I should have through the net install?
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11:28<pumpkin0>stacy: sure. Doe snetworking work now ?
11:28<Txt-file>stacy: do you have now a debian or not?
11:28<cahoot>how does your mirror line look in /etc/apt/sources?
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11:31<stacy>I am using debian right now, irssi without a window system. my sources.list was empty except for the install cd I used, so I manually added testing main contrib non-free and testing main (which I found through a quick google; let me know if this is wrong. Anyway, I seem to be able to apt-get things okay now.)
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11:33<Txt-file>stacy: what happens when you enter apt-get update?
11:34<stacy>txt-file: it says something about not being able to verify a key, then tells me some things were not downloaded, and suggests I fix this with an apt-get update.
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11:35<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
11:36<Txt-file>stacy: please pastebin what is displayed
11:36<stacy>Incidentally, is there any sort of multiple-terminal feature where I can open another console, or will I have to quit irssi to try anything?
11:37<Txt-file>^^this is for gnome
11:37<stacy>That's not doing anything
11:37<pumpkin0>stacy: ctrl-alt-F1, F2, F3,...
11:37<enouf>stacy: did you start the line with 'deb' ?
11:37<stacy>pumpkin0: that works, thanks
11:37<dpkg>The list of repositories for installing packages is /etc/apt/sources.list and has lines like "deb http://ftp.<cc> etch main" and "deb etch/updates main" where <cc> is your country code. Be sure to run "aptitude update" after editing sources.list. Also see <mirrors> <apt-spy> <apt-setup> <etch security> <testing security> "man sources.list" and /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
11:37<stacy>enouf: yes
11:38<pumpkin0>stacy: does this ring a bell ?
11:38<pumpkin0>!no public key
11:38<dpkg>Seeing "There are no public keys available"? This means that the Release file has been signed by a key which you do not have. If it's signed by another key which you do have, you can ignore the warning. Otherwise, you can add the key listed *AFTER* checking the validity of the signatures on the key. Ask me about <2006 key> or <etch key> for more details.
11:38<enouf>stacy: yeah, i hadn't read entirely through
11:38<benjamin><Txt-file> Do you know a good open source pastebin?
11:38<Guest8>pfft who needs GPG Keys
11:39<Guest8>I get key warnings all the time
11:39<dpkg>Please don't paste anything into the channel; use a paste site instead, like:,,, for pics. --- Also ask me: <pastebin pipe>
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11:39<Txt-file>bajamin: what about this ^^^^
11:39<Guest8>rafb is better
11:39<Hideo>Guest8: haha that's smart
11:40<benjamin>Txt-file : i do not find the sources
11:40<Guest8>Hideo: What is?
11:40<Hideo>ignoring the gpg key warnings
11:41<Txt-file>benjamin: then I downt know
11:41<Txt-file>guest8: Randolph Air Force Base ???
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11:42<stacy>It is able to download some things, and indeed, it's just a warning at the end: testing Release: the following signatures could not be verified because the public key is not available.
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11:42<enouf>benjamin: see pastebinit pkg
11:42<enouf>benjamin: also, /msg dpkg pastebin pipe
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11:43<pumpkin0>stacy: you will not need for a normal desktop. run "tasksel" as root.
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11:44<stacy>pumpkin0: thanks!
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11:45<pumpkin0>stacy: you should get X working before wondering about the repos. d-m is for playing videos.
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11:49<mordy_>err... can someone help me a bit with understanding how init.d scripts work? the documentation is too complicated for me to read :(
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11:49<mordy_>since i'm planning on removing the fglrx entries
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11:56<stacy>hmm, I ran tasksel as root, selected some packages, and let it start. It's been sitting at 0% since, and I might have to leave soon. Is there a key combination to abort cleanly?
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11:59<valdyn>stacy: ctrl-c
11:59<stacy>valdyn: already tried; no effect.
12:00<valdyn>stacy: killall tasksel
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12:02<stacy>valdyn: thanks
12:03<stacy>now if I try tasksel again, I immediately get "aptitude failed (255)"
12:03<stacy>immediately, after selecting packages and hitting okay.
12:03<valdyn>stacy: run plain aptitude update
12:04<valdyn>stacy: or upgrade
12:04<valdyn>stacy: that should tell about issues
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12:06<stacy>now I get "Unable to lock the administration directory (var/lib/dpkg) Is another process using it?"
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12:08<Txt-file>stacy: you must run this command as root .. also whith sudo
12:08<Enfilade>sorry to be a bother, but im having problems with sid after a heap of upgrades the other day. firstly, now when i try to log in to kde via kdm, the screen just briefly goes blank and then returns to the login screen
12:09<Enfilade>i can start kde as root though using startx from a tty
12:09<stacy>txt-file: yep, I have root. "sudo aptitude update" gives me the same error
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12:10<Enfilade>also, /etc/init.d/networking start doesn't actually seem to start network services, but i can if i do it manually using ifup eth1
12:10<pumpkin0>stacy: a aptitude, dpkg or apt-get copy is still running in background. "killall aptitude", killall apt-get ...
12:10<Txt-file>stacy: then I don't know ... and I am away now
12:11<stacy>pumpkin0: that worked.
12:12<pumpkin0>stacy: something bad happend with that tasksel. run "apt-get update" and "apt-get -f install" before launch tasksel.
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12:18<stacy>tasksel is again sitting there at 0%. Is there a way to make it more verbose, see what's going on?
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12:26<Txt-file>where can I find the XServer logs
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12:29<mordy_>txt - you mean /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
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12:35<mordy_>i still can't get anywhere with this radeonfb
12:35*mordy_ cries "Oh Lord, why have you forsaken me?"
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12:38<christoph>hi all, any suggestions how to convert an .svg to an .pdf the most easy way?
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12:39<christoph>inkscape will only raster it and I would like some comandline tool
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12:40<stacy>Must go. Thanks so much pumpkin0, valdyn, txt-file, and enouf for tolerating my noobitude.
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12:41<christoph>ah better think of imagemagick
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12:47<mordy_>raedeonfb? anyone?
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12:54<Txt-file>I have only the problem that my xserver don't start
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12:55<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
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13:18<Presently42>This may be an Xorg question, but I will ask here first. When I use the new 6.9.0 ati driver, the fonts become so large as to make the display unusable. Is there some thing in xorg.conf that needs to be changed?
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13:22<Presently42>Seems a little quiet. I'll ask later.
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13:53<fatal>any locale experts around? I have my LC_TIME set to sv_SE.UTF-8 so I get "correct" (according to my swedish view) time/date. Unfortunately this also means I get weekday in swedish (which is inserted in every mail I reply to for example). Is there any way I can set up the locale to match swedish norms, but still be in english?
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14:00<gnumm>why isn't there any nvidia driver in the debian leyy repo?
14:00<gnumm>debian lenny
14:02<christoph>gnumm, because it was too buggy I guess
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14:04<schmichael>i use the binary nvidia driver in sid and it works beautifully
14:04<gnumm>which driver should install to have a good performance but opensource?
14:04<gnumm>should already be installed right?
14:04<gnumm>ok :)
14:05<schmichael>i have to be honest, i really like the binary nvidia driver
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14:05<schmichael>no problems here
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14:05<schmichael>and seems a lot less buggy than the open source intel drivers i use on another computer
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14:06<gnumm>schmichael: did you install them with the normal installer from the nvidia website?
14:07<gnumm>the 173.14.09
14:07<schmichael>gnumm: originally yes, but now i'm using the packages in sid
14:07<gnumm>ah can i install some sid packages in lenny?
14:07<munga_>if I do a clean install _without_ selecting any package, how much space will be used ?
14:08<munga_>can I fix a base installation in , say, 300 MB ?
14:08<schmichael>gnumm: no clue... i just use sid. i wouldn't try it
14:08<schmichael>check backports?
14:08<schmichael>otherwise nvidia's installer works alright
14:08<gnumm>are there bacports for testing?
14:08<schmichael>oh right... lenny == testing...
14:08<gnumm>yes :)
14:08<schmichael>i don't think so
14:08<gnumm>i will try the nvidia installer
14:08<schmichael>maybe the side one will work
14:09<schmichael>gnumm: just a warning: its a pain to switch from nvidia's installer to debian's packages
14:09<schmichael>make sure to run nvidia's uninstaller first
14:09<schmichael>otherwise things get very messy
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14:10<schmichael>(i guess remembering to uninstall isn't that big of a "pain" ;)
14:12<gnumm>right, how do i run the uninstaller?
14:12<schmichael>run the installer with --uninstall iirc
14:12<schmichael>gnumm: or run it with --help for all options
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14:18<gnumm>./NVIDIA blabla.... --help ?
14:19<schmichael>sh --help
14:20<gnumm>why sh?
14:20<gnumm>i always run them with "./"
14:20<gnumm>is that wrong?
14:20<schmichael>not if you 'chmod +x ...' it first
14:20<schmichael>either way accomplishes the same thing
14:21<schmichael>i guess technically i was running the script using dash instead of bash when i used sh
14:21<schmichael>but the end result is identical :)
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14:21<gnumm>ok :), that's the important thing
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14:23<gnumm>so if uninstall a nvidia driver before installing a .deb nvidia driver, everything should work fine?
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14:23<schmichael>thats what i did
14:23<schmichael>and i've been quite happy
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14:23<schmichael>it gets great performance out of my crappy integrated nvidia chipset
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14:24<schmichael>i think there are certain reflection-related opengl operations it crawls on...
14:24<schmichael>...but i only run into those in games and can usually just tweak the game's settings
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14:34<thezapper>oi. i want to buy a pci sata raid controller which smoothly runs on etch any suggestions?
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14:44<gnumm>to leave X in debian i must run init 3 right?
14:44<amphi>gnumm: no
14:45<amphi>gnumm: stop your ?dm
14:45<gnumm> /etc/init.d/gdm stop?
14:45<schmichael>gnumm: ctrl-alt-f1, login, stop gdm (or kdm or whatever), install nvidia, restart gdm
14:45<schmichael>gnumm: yep
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14:46<gnumm>so no matter if dash or bash for the driver installation?
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14:50<mordy_>i'll state this problem again: my box gets into framebuffer in middle of boot - changing the boot parameters, blacklisting radeonfb, renaming radeonfb.ko, using a different kernel, etc. have not yielded any fruit - any suggestions? i'm thinking that there's something in init.d or rc?.d that's forcing it to start, but i can't think of anything - any help?
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14:51<schmichael>mordy_: i know nothing about framebuffers, but are you using any boot splash apps?
14:51<schmichael>iirc i tried usplash in the past and it messed everything up by using a framebuffer
14:51<mordy_>schmichael - no
14:51*schmichael tags out :)
14:53<mordy_>where can i find anything about this? google for radeonfb doesn't give me much
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14:54<mordy_>i think i'm about to cry :(
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15:06<gnumm>next problem: the nvidia installer said, my kernel was compiled with gcc4.1, but the nvidia driver will be compiled with gcc4.3
15:06<gnumm>the installer said i have to choose if want to install it
15:06<gnumm>are there risks now?
15:06<Txt-file>gnumm: you must compile a new kernel
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15:07<gnumm>oh no...
15:07<gnumm>i can't
15:07<wnd>I think it would be easier just to install gcc 4.1
15:07<Txt-file>wnd: boring :)
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15:08<gnumm>thanks, i'll install gcc4.1
15:08<wnd>well, I prefer debian over distributions like gentoo partly because of this
15:08<wnd>I don't need to compile things manually unless I want to do so :-)
15:08<gnumm>i use lenny, will the next kernel be compiled with gcc?
15:09<gnumm>when i install gcc4.1, should i remove 4.2 and 4.3?
15:10<Txt-file>gnumm: I think the next kernel will not compiled with 4.3
15:10<amphi>gnumm: you can just do 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-4.1 whatever
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15:11<Txt-file>can I setup a ssh-server with the ssh package?
15:12<gnumm>amphi: so
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15:12<gnumm>amphi: CC=/usr/bin/gcc-4.1 sh ?
15:12<amphi>that should do
15:13<gnumm>why are kernels still compiled with gcc 4.1?
15:13<wnd>Txt-file, openssh-server
15:13<Txt-file>gnumm_ because 4.3 is not set as stable
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15:14<gnumm>and why is then 4.3 installed and not 4.1?
15:14<gnumm>ah, becuase i have testing? :)
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15:15<Txt-file>gnumm: that could be a reason
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15:20<gnumm>but is it dangerous to compile the driver with gcc4.3?
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15:20<schmichael>gnumm: oh right... i ran into that as well... use the version of gcc used for the kernel
15:20<schmichael>its a pita
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15:20<gnumm>schmichael: did you install gcc4.1?
15:21<schmichael>i forget, but that sounds plausible :)
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15:39<emiliogm>how to install a network manager for select the wifi network?
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15:40<Txt-file>emiliogm: I think it is already installed
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15:40<emiliogm>how to start it? i have debian lenny
15:40<mike__>emiliogm, To start ?
15:41<Txt-file>emiliogm: the network manager in the upper right corner (systray)
15:41<Txt-file>mouse (left button) and then select the network
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15:41<emiliogm>i cant see it, if dont start automatically, how to start?
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15:46<Txt-file>emiliogm: system -> sytem -> network
15:47<Txt-file>emiliogm: and ... sytem -> preferences -> network manager
15:48<enouf>heh .. hi amphi !
15:48<amphi>I missed the ugly scenes :(
15:49<enouf>;-) .. well, you're no less the wiser for it ;-)
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15:49<arenax>can someone show me his /etc/init.d/apache2 file
15:50<enouf>"heh I'll show you mine if you show me yours"
15:50<enouf>i don't have one, otherwise i would
15:50<enouf>hey, no pm! without authorization!
15:50-!-rilium [] has joined #debian
15:51<enouf>it's flooding me in pm ... :-(
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15:52<enouf>arenax: you've been put on /ignore for flooding
15:52<enouf>and sending me pm
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15:52<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
15:53<schmichael>arenax: ^^^^^
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15:53<guillaume_>hello, can someone explain me how I can get an access on a network ressource from gspot import function ?
15:53<gnumm>next problem...
15:53<schmichael>lol, ...longest paste url ever
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15:53<gnumm>when i want to install the nvidia kernel with gcc4.1, i get an error message:
15:54-!-HaMMiE [] has quit [Quit: Byesssssssssss]
15:54<gnumm>EROOR: unable to find the kernel source tree for the currently running kernel. Please make sure you have installed the kernel source files for your kernel and that they are properly configured. On Red Hat Linux systems, for example, be sure you have "kernel-source" or "kernel-devel" RPM installed
15:54<enouf>arenax: listen, i'm not a hardass to newcomers, and i apologize if you took my statement about "i'll show you mine ... " literally .. it's a joke, a saying .. anyway, i'll remove you from /ignore now, i'm sure you didn't mean it
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15:55<schmichael>gnumm: ugh... sorry i keep forgetting about these things. looks like you need to install linux-source-2.6.<your version>
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15:56<schmichael>i would think linux-headers-2.6.<you version> is all it would need
15:56<schmichael>but i could be wrong
15:56<schmichael>i often am
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15:57<christoph>what's the openSuSE equivalent of apt-file?
15:58<gnumm>schmichael: which linux-source?
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15:58<gnumm>this one?
15:58-!-hoppenstedt [] has joined #debian
15:59<schmichael>gnumm: whatever matches the output of 'uname -a'
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15:59<Lounge>gnumm: uname -r
15:59<Terr1>Im having problems with grub and booting on my disk correctly, when I boot my kernel it boots from my /dev/hdl3 (/) instead of /dev/hdl1 (/boot) I cannot get it to boot from /boot I suspect that grub is kinda broken or something? (, (hd0) = /dev/hdl) when I execute grub command and try root (hd0,1) I get: Error 5: Partition table invalid or corrupt
15:59<Lounge>oh wait nm
16:00<gnumm>uname -r : 2.6.25-2-amd64
16:00<Lounge>didn't scroll up
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16:03<Lounge>Terr1: have you tried (hd0) instead of (hd0,1)?
16:03<Terr1>Filesystem type unknown, using whole disk
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16:04<Terr1>problem is I want it to boot from /boot and not / partition
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16:04<ansgar>The ITP #457583 for HTML::Formfu seems inactive. I asked at the end of the last month if Christian is still interested in this, but got no answer.
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16:05<Lounge>Terr1: have you edited the /boot/grub/menu.lst?
16:05-!-juliank [] has joined #debian
16:05<Terr1>might yes.. I tried alot of things
16:05<ansgar>So I want to take over the ITP. Is it ok to say that I will do this in 1-2 weeks in the bug report and then eventually take it over later?
16:05<q0q>Terr1: cat /proc/cmdline
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16:06<Terr1>BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26.bak root=UUID=7d85c804-8244-4b07-a230-5b129020a8d5 ro quiet
16:06<Terr1>that image is located on /boot (hdl3) and not /boot (hdl2)
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16:07<schmichael>ansgar: isn't #debian-devel the place to talk about package development?
16:07<q0q> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26.bak ?
16:07<dpkg>from memory, flash is frequently used to deliver interactivity, audio and video through a web browser. Ask me about <gnash> or <swfdec> for free implementations or <adobe flash> for a non-free implementation. Also see
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16:07<Phoul>Could anyone help me get adobe flash working, Im running Lenny... Im not sure how to tell it to only take the packages needed for flash from sid :( ive never messed with cross-versions before..
16:08<schmichael>Phoul: you could download the .deb file manually and use gedbi or dpkg to install it
16:08<Phoul>Is it just one file thats needed though?
16:09<ansgar>schmichael: You are right. I will ask there.
16:09<schmichael>Phoul: well it depends on a number of packages, but they're fairly standard (xlibs and such)
16:09<schmichael>gdebi or dpkg will both nicely tell you
16:09<mordy>anyone have any experience installing debian from an iso located on a usb HD? when i try to install, it works until it scans for an iso, and says it can't find any
16:10<Terr1>Also tried: grub-install --root-directory=/boot /dev/hdl, gets: grub-probe: error: Cannot find a GRUB drive for /dev/hdl. Check your even thou (hd0) /dev/hdl is in my
16:10<amphi>/dev/hdl ?
16:11<mordy>hey amphi - want me to smash any LCDs today?
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16:11<Lounge>or hdl?
16:11<q0q> (hd0) /dev/hdl ??
16:11<amphi>mordy: as you wish - I'm fairly unmoved by the fate of your equipment, if truth be told
16:11<Lounge>oh wait sry
16:11<Terr1>(hd0) /dev/hdl <-- from grub's
16:12<Terr1>as in L
16:12<amphi>yes - that was what surprised me
16:12<mordy>amphi - it's when i'll start replacing your equipment wiht mine that you should worry
16:12<Terr1>its because Im booting from a promise IDE controller since my onboard IDE controller died on me
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16:13<Terr1>so Im in the process of moving my disk to boot from its new location
16:14<Lounge>yipe - did I just pm you?
16:15<Lounge>sry'bout dat
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16:16<Lounge>i moved my root over to a luks encrypted partition, set it up in fstab, crypttab and set the entry in the grub menu.lst and it just hung in the middle of bootup
16:16<Lounge>so i just said screw it and moved it back
16:16<gnumm>i could finally install now the nvidia driver (i had to install linux-headers, linux-tree and linux-source)
16:17<gnumm>since i haveinstalled debian i have another problem: when i log in, i can't get login sound(for logout too)
16:17<Terr1>Im totally lost whu its so hard to get grub to work correctly
16:18<gnumm>all systems sounds do not work
16:19<schmichael>gnumm: System > Preferences > Sound > [x]Enable software sound mixing (ESD)
16:19<Lounge>gnumm: you should look in system,administration,login window - should be in the accessibility tab
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16:19<Lounge>were you can set the sound
16:19<gnumm>schmichael: already enabled
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16:20<gnumm>Lounge: ok
16:20<schmichael>gnumm: in the Devices tab does the sound Test button work?
16:20<Lounge>yeah - the sound server thingy
16:20*schmichael curses esd
16:20<Lounge>sry that was kinda blond of me to say
16:21*schmichael wishes pulseaudio would hurry up and stablize
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16:21<schmichael>gnumm: does the play button next to individual sound effects work?
16:21<gnumm>Lounge: i mean the sounds when i log in debian(System > Preferences > Sound)
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16:22<gnumm>in the 2. tab of System > Preferences > Sound nothing works (no sound)
16:22<Lounge>oh that - er its a sound server but what was it called?
16:23<schmichael>is the current default
16:23<schmichael>gnumm: do you have the esound package installed?
16:23<gnumm>maybe i should install "esound"
16:24<gnumm>i try that
16:24<schmichael>you got it :)
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16:25<Lounge>yes - esound thats it!
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16:27<mordy>how do i find things in busybox?
16:27<gnumm>cool, i can play now sounds in system > prefs > sounds
16:27<gnumm>but i stell get no sound when i login
16:28<Lounge>you did a full reboot?
16:28<Lounge>is there a sound file seleted for login?
16:29<gnumm>the default
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16:31<Lounge>you dl esound and esound-common?
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16:32<Lounge>i swear - linux audio structure is such a mess
16:33<mordy>how can i find files in the installer busybox shell?
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16:36<mordy>hello? gah
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16:37<gnumm>hmm, yes sound is weird in linux
16:38<Lounge>here's the mess as a chart
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16:39<Lounge>crazy, no?
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16:40<mordy>how can i find files in the installer busybox shell?
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16:44<Lounge>i just learn that by making a 4.4gb luks or a truecrypt container file, you don't need to format it as a utf to burn it to dvd :)
16:45<q0q>mordy: install busybox ?
16:45<Lounge>well actually with luks you might need to - i haven't tested it yet
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16:46<mordy>q0q - i'm installing debian on my other box from a usb disk - and it's not reading the iso, although the installation loads
16:47<mordy>i want to know if it's not mou nting its own partition
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16:49<guillaume_>A bug in /media generate this folder : d????????? ? ? ? ? ? WIN how can I erase it ? when I try I get an I/O error
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16:50<Lounge>mordy: i didn't think a livecd, installation, usb made a partition on the hdd - i thought it loaded in ram
16:51<mordy>lounge - it's not a livecd - but according to debian installation manual, you can place an iso on the usb drive, and it will read from it after the installer is loade
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16:52<Lounge>do you put the iso by copying it or trating like a normal burn process - i've never worked with usb sticks on these kinda things
16:53<mordy>lounge - just copying it
16:53<mordy>lounge - look here
16:54<Lounge>have you tried dd=if/dev/<your-cdrom-device> of=/dev/<your-usb-device> bs=2048 ??
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16:55<Lounge>that would be a sure way of making sure it cloned the iso to the usb
16:55<mordy>hmm.. what does dd do? and wouldn't the iso need to have its own partition?
16:55<mordy>not to mention i don't know the path to my usb device either
16:55<Lounge>i know that an iso have to be 2048 in bytes per sector
16:57<Lounge>dd copied that absolte 1s and 0s of a device to another device or to a file.img
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16:58<Lounge>lol dd is pretty damn aWESome "i tell u what!"
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16:58<mordy>ahh... but i don't want to do that - the problem is that i don't think it's mounting the usb drive to begin with
16:59<mordy>i have two partitions on the usb drive - and it's a usb hd - not flash - one is ext3 and the other is fat32
16:59<Lounge>does your bios support usb booting?
16:59<mordy>lounge - yes
17:00<mordy>the situation si like this: i am able to boot from the disk, the installer loads like normal - but the problem is that it can't find the ISO - so it's not a bios problem but a fs problem - i think
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17:00<gnumm>do i have in testing less updates than in sid?
17:01<mordy>if i knew how to search for things in busybox, i would be able to confirm whether the usb disk was mounted or not simply by seeing if any of its files are listed
17:01<Lounge>so the iso isn't getting mounted?
17:01<gnumm>or only less dangerous updates?
17:01<Lounge>just the usb stick?
17:01<mordy>lounge - the problem isn't in mounting the iso - the problem is the usb stick itself
17:01<mordy>although i think it's pretty weird that it loads from the bios - but it can't mount itself
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17:04<Lounge>how far do you get before this error occurs?
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17:05<mordy>lounge - in middle of the installer itself
17:05<mordy>the installer tells me it can't find an iso image- but that's about it
17:06<Lounge>strange because the installation menu is loaded - which is from the iso its self, right?
17:06-!-bcn84 [] has joined #debian
17:06<mordy>lounge - not from the iso - but from the USB
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17:07<Lounge>is the installation sort of a linux live?
17:07<mordy>lounge - the USB drive contains two partitions - the partition of relevance is the fat32 partition which contains the installation image, syslinux (or ldlinux) and periphery
17:08<Lounge>like can you type unix commands there? in a terminal?
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17:08<mordy>lounge - yes - i can type commands - but it's limited - it's something called busybox
17:09<Lounge>can you do a mount -o loop /dev/<your-ext3-partition>/<your iso> /mnt ???
17:10<mordy>lounge - the problem is that i don't know what the path to my partiton is :(
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17:11<Lounge>can you type ls -l /dev ??
17:11<Lounge>and see if it returns and devices?
17:11<mordy>lounge - the list is huge
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17:11<mordy>is there a way for it to only show one screen at a time?
17:12<Lounge>try ls -l /dev/sd* or hd*
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17:13<Lounge>ok try to mount the iso image and see if that works - if it finds it
17:13<mordy>but the names aren't very descriptive - i see six drives
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17:13<mordy>ls -l /*.iso would work perhaps?
17:13<Lounge>just cd into each on and do an ls to find the iso
17:13<Lounge>each one*
17:14<Lounge>you could do that
17:14<mordy>sda isn't a directory
17:14<mordy>i need to mount it
17:14<Lounge>sda is a device
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17:14<Lounge>you could type: losetup /dev/loop1 /dev/sda
17:15<mordy>ahh... it works
17:15<Lounge>and then do ls *iso /dev/loop1
17:15<Lounge>where /dev/loop1 = /dev/sda
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17:16<mordy>one sec..
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17:17<mordy>gah, how do i unmount?
17:17<Lounge>if you found the iso? then it should be typed as mount -o loop /dev/loop1/<your iso> /mnt
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17:17<Lounge>you want to unmount the loop?
17:17<mordy>lounge - i mounted the wrong partition
17:17<Lounge>ok then type losetup -d /dev/loop1
17:17<mordy>i mounted my hd's partition with windoze xp home (ewwww)
17:18<mordy>losetup isn't a command in busy box
17:18<Lounge>where -d = dismount
17:18<mordy>i can only do umount
17:18<mordy>but i don't know hwo to use that
17:18<Lounge>ok then mount should work
17:19<mordy>ok, let's see if this works now -the partition is mounted :D
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17:20<Lounge>might i suggest that you put a live-linux in your usb instead of busybox so you can have a true unix terminal? or even a live desktop?
17:20<mordy>lounge - what's the fun in that? besides, it has no optical drive
17:21<mordy>i always avoid optical drives - they're slow and buggy
17:21<Lounge>i only say that b/c i know nothing about busybox
17:21<mordy>but this machine really doesn't have one
17:21<mordy>hehe, lounge
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17:24<mordy>hmm... i mounted the iso now - let's see what happens
17:24<Lounge>see i was under the imperssion that you either take an iso and burn it to cd or you burn it to a usb stick where the usb stick is basicaly a "cd" and treated a s such by the computer
17:25<mordy>yes, it's confusingg
17:25<Lounge>i never understood having to execute it as an installation by another installation :|
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17:25<mordy>i mounted the iso to /mnt - let's see if the installer will detect it - although i doubt it - since now it's a directory and not an iso file
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17:27<mordy>lounge - i'm in the iso's directory - what's the path to launching the installer?
17:27<Lounge>actually you're right it's not a file its supposed to be a device
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17:28<Lounge>it should be mounted to /dev/loop1
17:28<Lounge>instead of /mnt
17:29<Lounge>now how did you start the installation before - where it errored?
17:29<mordy>lounge - mount the iso or mount the partition?
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17:29<mordy>lounge - the installation starts smoothly from the usb disk
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17:30<mordy>no problems. it's really weird that the installation kernel loads from bios - but it can't find its own memory
17:30<mordy>it's like the installer has lost its own head :((
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17:30<Lounge>because it doesn't know what to do with a non-mounted iso image
17:31<mordy>lounge - it looks for one - the installer says "Looking for an ISO image"
17:31<mordy>and even in the error message, it says ""it may have had a bad filename (not ending in ".iso")"
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17:32<mordy>hmm... maybe i can copy the iso to the local hard disk
17:32<mordy>hmm... let's see
17:32<Lounge>the iso needs to be burned onto a cd or the usb stick its self - not through thrid party installation - i believe it to be better this way
17:33<Lounge>you might be experiencing a bug in busybox or something
17:33<amphi>mordy: did you look at the install guide?
17:33<mordy>lounge - i think the debian installer wants to do what i just did - i.e. mouint the iso image to the filesystem - but it can't do it itself
17:33<mordy>amphi - the install guide doesn't say much - i'm following it though
17:33<Lounge>like i said: possible bug
17:34<mordy>amphi - i would have never gotten the idea if not for the installguide
17:34<mordy>The installer will look for a Debian ISO image on the stick as its source for additional data needed for the installation. So your next step is to copy a Debian ISO image (businesscard, netinst or even a full CD image) onto your stick (be sure to select one that fits). The file name of the image must end in .iso."
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17:35<mordy>the *only* thing i can think of which i did wrong was make the partiton fat32 instead of fat16 - but does that make much of a difference?
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17:36<Lounge>do you have flash stick big enough to fit all the content from the iso?
17:36<mordy>lounge - it's a 40G HD
17:38<mordy>lounge- when i try to mount to /dev/loop1 - it says resource busy
17:38<Lounge>yes but i'm talking about a usb flash drive not your hdd stick
17:38<Lounge>try loop2
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17:40<Lounge>you would mount the iso and copy everything to the flash drive, reboot the system with only that "flash drive" in
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17:40<Lounge>the debian installation should begin - just like a it would on a cd
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17:41<mordy>hmm.. i'm thinkign about copying the contents of the iso to the actual HD
17:41<Lounge>it seems to be the easiest way
17:41<mordy>or copying the iso itself to the hd
17:41<mordy>it should certainly nto fail then - shold it?
17:42<Lounge>make sure it boots into that installation and not the busybox
17:43<mordy>but i don't have a usb disk to spare :(
17:44<Lounge>and you can't burn cds b/c of no opticals
17:45<Lounge>i see your dilemma
17:45<mordy>wtf? why is it only scanning /dev/scsi?
17:45<mordy>lounge - i can do netinstall - but that's another pain in the ass, since my connection is a pos
17:46<mordy>the problem is not the usb stick or any fs - i think it's the installer itself - why the hell is it only checking for /dev/scsi - i don't even have a scsi disk
17:47<Lounge>i would say debian live or knoppix in place of busybox - and also a spare flash drive wouldn't hurt
17:47<Lounge>geez i really don't know what else to say
17:48<mordy>lounge - for what it's worth i can make a third partition on my usb hd and extract all the iso files to there
17:49<Lounge>yes but that partition will need to be flagged as boot
17:49<Lounge>i don't really have the smarts on doing that though
17:50<qq>mordy: this machine have a floppy driver ?
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17:50<mordy>qq - this machine has nothing but an hd and usb ports
17:50<mordy>it's also a cheap pos - but that's nothing to do with anything here
17:50<mordy>qq- btw - i fixed that radeonfb issue - but it was a long process - solution was simple though - rename radeonfb.ko
17:50<qq>pxe network
17:51<mordy>qq - how would i set up a pxe network to serve files? i don't want a netinstall :(
17:53<qq>you may install from a local machine , who export his cdrom
17:53<mordy>qq - set up a ftp server and serve the installation files off the cd - and when selecting a mirror do local subnet?
17:53<themill>mordy: just remember to do that next time you have a kernel update too.
17:54<mordy>hehe themill -i don't think i'll forget this :D
17:54<themill>mordy: didn't think so... you've spent a lot of time on it...
17:57<qq>mordy: it may be a solution
17:57<mordy>qq - i tried doing that the last time - it didn't work -it just didn't find the mirror
17:57<mordy>i was using iis then - but still
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17:58<mordy>hmm... wait - if i do syslinux /dev/sdb2 from a 64 bit system where sdb2 is my usb partition intended for a x86 system, it shouldn't cause any problems =- righrt?
17:59<Lounge>try it
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18:01<mordy_>hmmm... now i'm getting a different error message - about the integrity of the cdrom
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18:01<mordy_>does this mean it's reading from the iso now?
18:02<Lounge>lol it thinks there's a bad md5 match
18:02<mordy_>lounge - it's working
18:03<Lounge>finally eh?
18:03<mordy_>the only thing i did was change the installation partition to fat16 - but the partition that it's reading from is actuallty ext3
18:03<mordy_>and it's reading from the amd64 iso - dammit
18:03<mordy_>but i think the concept is operational :D
18:04<Lounge>if you're a member of the busybox forums - you might wanna post this issue and the work around to this
18:04<mordy_>lounge - i don't think it's a busybox issue though - i think it's related to the filesystem in some odd way - the isntallation manual asks for a fat16 fs - weird though
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18:04<mordy_>also could be a bad disk - i don't know how good the disk is - it's a hd - not a flash disk - tyhings can get corrupted
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18:05<Lounge>you can check for bad blocks by typing
18:06<Lounge>/sbin/badblocks -c 10240 -s -w -t random -v /dev/<your-hdd>
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18:06<Lounge>see if any sectors of botched
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18:06<Lounge>are botched*
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18:07<mordy_>hmm.. it's still not working properly- i thought it was reading from the usb partition - but it isn't - remember when i said i copied the iso to my local hd? it's reading from tyhat
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18:09<mordy_>lounge - how long would this take on a usb drive @4200rpm 40G?
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18:10<Lounge>i would say as long as it take from doing it on a live cd
18:10<Lounge>maybe faster on usb
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18:11<mordy_>lounge - i mean badblocks :p
18:12<q0q>1-2 days ? :)
18:12<Lounge>that depends on how fast your processer is may take an hour - but it'll show you the progress
18:12<mordy_>ROTFL q0q
18:12<Lounge>as its working
18:12<mordy_>it's working - took about 5 min to get to 10%
18:12<mordy_>so i guess about an hour - if not less
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18:13<Lounge>i don't think it'll take an hour but it should "find and fix" mean while - play some halo3 and pwnt some noobs
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18:16<Lounge>this is your 4200rmp 40G hdd in the system and does it have any important data?
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18:16<mordy_>lounge - no - in fact, i was about to throw away the HD since i thought it was broken - it didn't work under windoze
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18:17<mordy_>loung, i had another HD whcih was 500G - but i smashed it down on the floor in rage - it contained almost everything
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18:17<mordy_>i've got some old backups of the most important things - but those are on old CDs which are probably bad by now
18:18<Txt-file>mordy_: congratulation
18:18<Lounge>ok should be find - assuming busybox supports checking for bad blocks, you should also whipe the entire hdd out by filling it with zeros
18:19<q0q>Lounge: wow, so 1-2 days of peace ? :)
18:19<mordy_>meh, i'll deal with all those things later - i first want to get my 'network' set up - i don't know how to manage this - i have three laptops
18:19<Lounge>dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<your-40G-hdd> conv=notrunc,noerror
18:19<Lounge>that'll wipe it clean
18:20<wee-u>know any network support?
18:20<Txt-file>mordy_: buy a server and store there all data
18:20<mordy_>the one i'm using is the 'server'
18:20<mordy_>it's a laptop too - but it's the biggest and strongest of them all
18:20<Txt-file>mordy_ aha
18:21<mordy_>the other laptop has a broken screen, but is pretty good - and the third one is a pos - but it's new
18:21<Txt-file>for what you need 3 laptops?
18:21<mordy_>txt-file - i may get evicted any day, and i may need to take several flights - so i'm not about to invest in a desktop
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18:22<mordy_>txt-file - the first one is too big, the second one has a broken screen, and the third i just bought two days ago - its price is as much as the screen of laptop 2
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18:22<mordy_>"msi wind" - pos
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18:22<Txt-file>mordy_ then 3 laptops make sense
18:23<Lounge>mordy_: i would say debian with a simple desktop like fluxbox would run it nice
18:23<mordy_>this big laptop is a 'server' for me - it's pretty old - from the beginning of 2005 - but it works like a horse
18:23<mordy_>hmm... what's fluxbox?
18:23<Txt-file>for the most server apps you don't need a big cpu and ram etc.
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18:24<Txt-file>fluxbox is a displaymanager
18:24<mordy_>txt-file - but i'm planning to make this a 'server' in the sense of workstation as well
18:24<Lounge>a very simplified light-weight desktop that requires very little memory to run
18:24<mordy_>thin client?
18:24<mordy_>oh, like X?
18:24<Txt-file>like gnome
18:25<mordy_>ahh.. i use KDE and it looks pretty much like windoze 95, which i liked
18:25<mordy_>my first computer had windoze 95
18:25<Lounge>yea debian to run flux instead of gnome
18:25<Txt-file>I hate kde because it looks like windoze
18:26<mordy_>yeah, but i'm used to windoze -
18:26<Txt-file>I use also windoze cause gaming
18:26<Lounge>mordy: the transition will be a Godsend to ya
18:27<Lounge>from winblows to linux
18:27<Lounge>and from mac for that matter
18:28<mordy_>yeah, i don't miss windows at all - for a newbie like me, linux gives me more problems - but the good thing about linux is that i can actually look into to every detail of the problem and see what's wrong - so i can understand what's giong on
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18:28<Txt-file>lounge: I loved windows. I used it for downloading linux
18:28<Lounge>mac is just like windows exept with mac you're a hipster
18:28<mordy_>ROTFL lounge
18:28<mordy_>ROTFL ROTFL
18:29<Lounge>and with linux you grow a beard
18:29<mordy_>lounge, i have a beard anyway :p
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18:29<mordy_>and long hair :p
18:29<Lounge> all linux users
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18:30<Txt-file>mac is to expensive ... if it would run on any amd on my pc would run mac
18:30<Txt-file>lounge lol
18:31<mordy_>meh, i don't have a long beard - i keep a small beard though - and long hair as well
18:32<Txt-file>no beard but long hair
18:32<mordy_>hehe, without a beard i look like i'm 15, with a beard i look like i'm 35 :|
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18:32<Txt-file>:D :)
18:33<qq>and have ?
18:33<mordy_>tyou mean my age?
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18:35<q0q>near from 15 than 35 ...
18:35<mordy_>hehe, i remember my first computer - 133Mhz, 16MB RAM, 1GB HD - $1000
18:36<mordy_>and i remember when it broke down -a new HD was $200 - it was 4GB
18:36<cockroach>oh no, i see a 'my first computer was older than yours'-rush coming... :)
18:36<Lounge>mordy_: my 1st puter was back in 92 486, windows 3.1 40mb hdd and about 2kram
18:36<Txt-file>here next to me: 6 pc's (3 running and 3 without hdd but would run)
18:36<mordy_>lol cockroach -
18:36<cockroach>hah, knew it :)
18:37<HaMMiE>my first computer was an amstrad cpc464
18:37<HaMMiE>my second a 486 with 210 MB HDD
18:37<mordy_>txt-file - yeah, i'm trying to set up a computer as a thin client that would run without hdd - but i hav eyet to learn
18:37<Lounge>remember how long it took to load a game into the c64?
18:37<HaMMiE>12 mins or so
18:37<HaMMiE>from a cassette
18:37<cockroach>heh, don't use the tape, then :)
18:37<Lounge>took five minutes just to get a possible load error
18:38<HaMMiE>12 mins with slow speed
18:38<Lounge>c54 was the xbox of the 80s
18:38<cockroach>nah, didn't break that often...
18:39<Txt-file>the oldest computer I have is a atari 2600
18:39<Lounge>its hard to imagine but console games came first before the home computer
18:39<Txt-file>yeah PONG
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18:40<Txt-file>realeasedate of pong (from atari): November 29, 1972
18:40<Lounge>lol pong & 8 track cassettes
18:41<Txt-file>A home computer was a class of personal computers entering the market in 1977 and becoming common during the 1980s.
18:41<Txt-file>both from wikipedia
18:41<Lounge>tandys ftw!
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18:43<Txt-file>anyone know how many Hz the first computers had?
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18:44<qq>0.2 MHz ?
18:44<Lounge>a cheap watch from a 25 cent plastic bubble has more computing power than those old monsters lol
18:44<stevecotton>First PC or first mainframe?
18:44<mordy_>lounge- is bad blocks supposed to erase everything on my disk? or only when i cancel it in the middle?
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18:45<Txt-file>my dads pda has about 300Mhz (but I'm not sure
18:45<qq>here cpu: 603ev bogomips: 19.96 (PowerBook 3400), 2.6.24-1-powerpc-miboot, lenny/sid
18:45<mordy_>my palm IIIe had 25MhZ - my current PDA has about 300
18:45<mordy_>what's powerpc anyway?
18:46<Lounge>mordy_: no it just checks if there are any bad blocks - if the bad blocks are found then it should repair them ( i think ) but after that, wipe the hdd out before you format it
18:46<the-me>19.96 bogomips? I think it wouldn't be fast enough to run dos, or not? :D
18:46<ranix>pre intel macs were powerpc
18:46<abrotman>ppc is not macintosh
18:46<mordy_>ahh - cancelled it in the middle
18:46<abrotman>many people use PPC
18:46<ranix>I have some 180mhz handhelds
18:46<ranix>and a 200mhz
18:46<ranix>the 180s run netbsd, poorly
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18:47<abrotman>and macs have used three different architectures that i know of
18:47<qq>icewm on
18:47<mordy_>hehe, those PDAs with 512k ram
18:47*stevecotton guesses at 1Hz for the Colussus, and 0.01Hz for the Difference Engine, then goes to look it up
18:47<ranix>makes a calculation a second?
18:47<ranix>that sounds like mechanical computing pre-transistor
18:47<mordy_>hehe, my uncle worked with those giants in the early 60's
18:47<mordy_>now he uses windows 3.11
18:48<Txt-file>your mind is faster then 1Hz
18:48<Lounge>mordy_: let me know if busybox can actually execute that badblock cmd
18:48<mordy_>lounge i doubt it - let me try
18:48<mordy_>what's the command again?
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18:48<Lounge>/sbin/badblocks -c 10240 -s -w -t random -v /dev/<your-hdd>
18:49<Lounge>where <you-hdd> is the actual device like sda or hda
18:49<mordy_>lounge - command not found
18:49<mordy_>i just did /sbin/badblocks
18:49<newsense>is it possible to safely resize a windows ntfs partition from within the debian installer ?
18:49<Txt-file>newsense: NO
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18:50<qq>not even on win ...
18:50<abrotman>uhm .. lots of people do it from the installer
18:50<abrotman>IIRC hte install guide even tells you how
18:50<Lounge>yeah see this is why its better to have something like helix or knoppix instead of busybox
18:50<abrotman>that said .. have a backup
18:50<stevecotton>ranix - look at the names of the machines that I guessed. They're both pre-transistor.
18:51<newsense>if i wanted to to use lvm do i have to use the entire hdd for linux ?
18:51<Txt-file>newsense: I have tried shrink a windows pertition with ubuntu hardy ... and yesterday I have reinstalled win
18:51<abrotman>!ntfs resize
18:51<dpkg>i guess ntfs resize is
18:51<Lounge>newsense: no
18:51<newsense>cool thanks everyone
18:51<Lounge>newsense: infact the /boot partition should not really be encrypted from what i understand
18:52<Txt-file>newsense: for that we are here
18:52<ranix>< Txt-file> your mind is faster then 1Hz
18:52<mordy_>lounge - can you remind me again how to 'burn' a iso to a partition?
18:52<ranix>a current can pass from one side to the other in less than a second?
18:52<Txt-file>that's right
18:52<mordy_>and does the partition need to be the same size as the ISO?
18:52<Lounge>the only partition that should be encrypted - that hold sensitive data are : /root /tmp /home /var/tmp and swap
18:53<ranix>or do you mean I can update my registers faster than once per second
18:53<ranix>or flush my input buffers
18:54<ranix>or modulate my phase variance
18:55<Lounge>mordy_: to do this first mount the iso to something like /mnt and if your partition is say: /dev/sda5? then to cp -avx /mnt* /dev/sda5
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18:56<mordy_>what does the -avx switch mean?
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18:56<Lounge>/dev/sda5 could be your flash drive or w/e
18:56<Lounge>but a flash drive wouldn't be called sda
18:56<mordy_>this one is called sdb
18:57<Lounge>but the question is could you get busybox to allow your system to boot into that partition at reboot?
18:58<Lounge>is sdb your actual hdd?
18:58<mordy_>lounge - i never had that problem - the problem seems to be in the installer itself- i can view all my partitons perfectly with busybox - but the installer itself doesn't i guess
18:58<mordy_>sdb is the USB HD, my HD is HDA
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18:59<mordy_>mount: debian-40r3-i386-netinst.iso is not a block device (maybe try `-o loop'?)
18:59<shze>hi! i have a problem mit kmail on lenny: i try to set up dimap, but i get two inboxes, a local and a remote.
18:59<Lounge>well if you can get the system to boot into the sdb - where the iso was copied to then you should see the debian installer come to life
19:00<shze>if i use imap, it works. how do i get dimap working? is this a bug?
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19:00<shze>disconnected or cached imap
19:00<abrotman>i think that's a client thing
19:00<mordy_>lounge - but how do i mount the iso - mount <path/to/iso> <target> doesn't work - gives me the message i just posted above
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19:01<shze>yeah, but it should work..
19:01<Lounge>mordy_: where was the iso saved to?
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19:01<mordy_>hehe, i'm wary of saying "doesn't work" lest someone say "!doesn't work"
19:01<mordy_>in /home/mordy, lounge
19:02<shze>any idea?
19:02<Lounge>mordy_: mount -o loop /home/mordy/<name-of-iso> /mnt
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19:03<Lounge>then cp -avx /mnt/* /dev/sdb or the partition
19:03<Lounge>assuming busybox supports those commands
19:03<mordy_>gah, do i have to mount that partition as well?
19:04<Lounge>well wait
19:04<mordy_>lounge - i'm not using busybox now :D - i'm using my normal computer :D
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19:04<mordy_>"normal" is a relative term though :p
19:04<Lounge>ok first before mounting do this
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19:04<Lounge>mordy_: mkdir /mnt/iso && mkdir /mnt/sdb
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19:06<Lounge>mordy_: then mount -o loop /home/mordy/<your-iso> /mnt/iso
19:06<Lounge>ok now
19:06<Lounge>mordy_: mount -t ext3 /dev/sdb /mnt/sdb
19:07<Lounge>assuming your /dev/sdb is ext3
19:07<mordy_>fat16 :p
19:07<Lounge>ok then just mount /dev/sdb /mnt/sdb
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19:07<Lounge>all this needs root
19:08<mordy_>of course
19:08<Lounge>now whats in your /mnt/sdb?
19:08<Lounge>ls -l /mnt/sdb/*
19:08<mordy_>all the dirs
19:09<mordy_>files etc.
19:09<Lounge>from windows?
19:09-!-pos [~mark@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:09<Lounge>do you need anything in there?
19:09<mordy_>no -
19:10<Lounge>ok then type: rm -r /mnt/sdb/*
19:10<mordy_>i finished copying and mounted everything - i tried to boot with ti - but it just gets a blinking cursor
19:10<Lounge>that'll delete everythin in the /sdb
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19:11<Lounge>mordy_: well you gotta do some things first before you try to load it
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19:11<jonathanpoon>hey guys....
19:11<jonathanpoon>I'm using an intel quad-core CPU...
19:11<jonathanpoon>which version of debian 64 should I install? IA64 or AMD64?
19:11<Lounge>first delete everything out of /mnt/sdb then cp -avx /mnt/iso /mnt/sdb and then...
19:11<Txt-file>jonathanpoon: nice
19:12<Lounge>then you need to umount them both
19:12<jonathanpoon>ia -> itanium?
19:12<Txt-file>is there a special IA64 version??
19:12<themill>jonathanpoon: amd64 or i386. Not ia64.
19:12<Lounge>so that way /dev/sdb has only the contents from the iso
19:12<dpkg>it has been said that ia64 is (Intel Architecture-64), a 64-bit processor architecture developed in cooperation by Intel and Hewlett-Packard, implemented by processors such as Itanium and Itanium 2. The goal of Itanium was to produce a "post-RISC era" arch using EPIC. see -- if your CPU is opteron/athlon64/turion/sempron/xeon/em64t/pentium/core2duo/core*, then it is NOT ia64, it's amd64
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19:13<mordy_>hmm... let's see what i can do here, lounge
19:13<themill>jonathanpoon: if you go for 32 bit (i386) then make sure you install the -686 kernel not the -486 kernel.
19:13<jonathanpoon>I'm going to go for the am64 kernel
19:14<mordy_>gah - maybe it's just the iso
19:14<Txt-file>jonathanpoon: what cpu do you have?
19:14<jonathanpoon>quadcore Q9450
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19:16<Lounge>mordy_: you tried loading /dev/sdb?
19:16<mordy_>lounge - i'm trying everything again from the beginning
19:17<Lounge>mordy_: mouting the iso over to /mnt/iso?
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19:17<mordy_>yes.. from the beginnign :(
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19:17<mordy_>mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/iso': Input/output error
19:17<Lounge>mordy_: /dev/sdb is also mounted to /mnt/sdb?
19:18<mordy_>why am i getting this?
19:18<mordy_>lounge - although i don't necessarily have to mount something to /mnt/* - do i?
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19:19<Lounge>mordy_: for the sake of simplicity i would mount them both there
19:19<mordy_>yes, but i get that weird error :(
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19:20<Lounge>did you create the two directories; /mnt/iso & /mnt/sdb?
19:20<mordy_>i can't create the directories
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19:20<mordy_>initially i created /mnt and /mnt2
19:20<Lounge>mordy_: "mkdir /mnt/iso && mkdir /mnt/sdb doesn't work?
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19:21<mordy_>lounge: "mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/iso': Input/output error
19:21<Lounge>you're doing this as root right?
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19:22<Lounge>try ls -l /mnt* see if there's anything there
19:22<mordy_>i was just about tot say that :D
19:22<Lounge>or rather /mnt/*
19:22<mordy_>there's one folder there, mnt2
19:22<mordy_>nothing there
19:23<Lounge>mordy_: strange that its not letting you create another folder there
19:23<mordy_>i figured it out -there wasd some weird mount there
19:24<mordy_> - /dev/sda
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19:25<mordy_>ok, i have two directories - now i'll mount -o loop <iso> /mnt/iso
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19:25<Lounge>mordy_: ok how about this: forget about mount, and instead created the dirs in your /home instead "mkdir ~/iso && mkdir ~/sdb"
19:25<tecnico>td bem?
19:25<Lounge>and then try mounting them there instead of /mnt
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19:26<mordy_>ok, both are mounted -
19:26<Lounge>mordy_: you should have /home/mordy/iso & /home/mordy/sdb
19:26<[diablo]>morning #debian ... guys, I've moved from Ubuntu to Debian... enjoying it alottt.. I'm wanting to use Xen, and is it correct that Lenny does not have a working dom0 kernel? I'm having to use a 2.6.15 atm
19:26<mordy_>cp -vxf?
19:26<mordy_>or rm .../sdb/*?
19:27<Lounge>mordy_: ok so should erase everything in /home/mordy/sdb first
19:27<mordy_>hmm.. doesn't let me remove anything from sdb :(
19:27<Lounge>rm -r /home/mordy/sdb/* or rm -r ~/sdb/*
19:27<mordy_>maybe i'm not typing it correctly
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19:28<abrotman>[diablo]: i think i've seen that mentioned
19:28<mordy_>ok, done!
19:28-!-usuariofdsafdsa [] has joined #debian
19:28<abrotman>[diablo]: there is a #debian-xen channel
19:28<mordy_>not cp -vxf...
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19:28<[diablo]>ah ok thank you abrotman I'll join it
19:29<Lounge>mordy_: ok now "cp -avx /home/mordy/iso/* /home/mordy/sdb" without quotes
19:29<mordy_>err.. avx
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19:29<usuariofdsafdsa>please help with cups, I have a hp laserjet 1022n and Im trying to configure cups, but I can't guess the URI, that printer its a network printer, it have the port 9100 open and 80, can you help me please?
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19:29<Lounge>-avx just keeps the permissions intact
19:29<mordy_>does it stand for anything?
19:30<usuariofdsafdsa>please some help
19:30<Txt-file>abrotman: but in #debian-xen are only
19:30<abrotman>Txt-file: do you know anything about his question ?
19:30<Lounge>mordy_: ok now if everything was a success you should unmount them now assuming all the content from the iso is now in sdb
19:30<caffn>usuariofdsafdsa > what do you need? The IP of the printer..?
19:31<usuariofdsafdsa>caffn: the printer, I add the printer in cups but it dont print
19:31<mordy_>what's the command for umount again? damn i'm forgetting these things - i just did this a few minutes ago
19:31<caffn>Any errors?
19:31<usuariofdsafdsa>caffn its a network printer
19:31<Lounge>mordy_: actaully don't unmount sdb
19:31<abrotman>mordy_: umount /mount/point
19:31<usuariofdsafdsa>caffn no it just dont print
19:32<caffn>Hm, sounds strange..
19:32<mordy_>ok, umounted the iso
19:32<Lounge>mordy_: tell it to load "/home/mordy/sdb"
19:32<Txt-file>abrotman: I'm sorry
19:32*caffn doenst know anything about printing in linux ;D
19:32<mordy_>what do you mean "load"?
19:33<usuariofdsafdsa>any help please
19:33<Lounge>mordy_: i mean have it look there for the debian installer
19:33<mordy_>everything looks in order - but i'm wondering if isolinux will give me problems
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19:33<qq>try it
19:34<Lounge>mordy_: well not sure how you're having it start - but sdb is now the "iso"
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19:34<mordy_>hehe, should i remove the bootable flag? should i keep it?
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19:34<usuariofdsafdsa>caffn: this is the uri that Im ussing socket:// but it dont print
19:34<mordy_>lounge - usb boot of course
19:34<mordy_>unmount it now?
19:34<Lounge>mordy_: in this case "/home/mordy/sdb"
19:34<Lounge>um no
19:35<mordy_>i'll need to unmount it eventually, as i'm not installing it on this computer -i'm installing it on a different one
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19:36<Lounge>mordy_: then have it look for "/dev/sdb" if that doesn;t work then mount /dev/sdb to somewhere and have it look to that mount
19:37<mordy_>hmm... you've given me an idea
19:37<Lounge>mordy_: because my guess is as good as yours on how it will play out
19:38<Lounge>mordy_: yes in order for any os to be abled to read content from a drive, it has to first be mounted
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19:38<Nyaa>OK, so my ISP is being an ass, saying they can't set up RAID 1 on Etch. I have /, /tmp, /usr and /var. I want to mirror all of the two disks. I only have SSH access. I also want redundant bootcode. How do I do this?
19:38<Lounge>or partition
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19:40<Nyaa>I found this:
19:40<caffn>Nyaa > google for a softraid howto, should help you creating an software raid1 :)
19:41<Nyaa>One comment mentioned this as well: "Do a "grub-install" on both halves of the RAID1'ed partition with /boot on it. Then, in your /boot/grub/menu.lst, specify that md device. Then, either disk could fail but you'll still be able to boot. Tried, true, and tested."
19:41<caffn>Or some mdadm howto
19:41-!-AnglaChel [] has joined #debian
19:41<Nyaa>Oh, wrong link. That was the one I was going to slap in my ISP's face.
19:42-!-persnickety [] has joined #debian
19:42<Nyaa> <- This as well.
19:42<mordy_>gah, i get the same problem again - something with isolinux i guess *sigh*
19:42<Nyaa>Both include things I cannot access.
19:43<caffn>Well, if you have root access via ssh, 2 discs, and that manual you should be fine, right?
19:43<abrotman>the install guide tells you how
19:43<caffn>With only user access it aint gonna work..
19:43<Lounge>mordy_: then i guess is to copy the contents from the iso onto a flash drive and then boot the system with it
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19:45<mordy_>lounge - i think the problem with isolinux is that it specifically looks for a physical optical drive and won't start without it - syslinux and pxelinux are better suited solutions for non-CD solutions
19:45<Nyaa>Well, single-user mode via SSH is a bit hard, isn't it?
19:45<caffn>True, true
19:45<Nyaa>I guess I'll simply have to RAGE at them and get them to reinstall the server properly.
19:46<Lounge>the debain installer its self is setup just like a live cd -it'll boot on its own, it should
19:46<mordy_>however my real problem is with the installer itself - what i realized is that the installer only scans the physical drives of the computer itself, and ignores the usb drive (from which it loaded in the first place) - and that i can't understand. i guess i can mount it to scsi/blah but i don't know if that owuld do the trick
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19:46<jonathanpoon>hey guys...
19:46<mordy_>hmm.. but the debian installer for USB is different than the cd image
19:47<jonathanpoon>I am running the lenny network installation CD. I don't see an option to create a RAID on my I missing some option I need to enable when I boot the CD?
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19:48<qq>do you have a raid controller ?
19:48<caffn>Softraid :)
19:48<Lounge>mordy_: if your bios support usb boot - then it shouldn't be a problem - the usb should boot it, other wise copy the contents from the cd image to the usb stick just by the mounting prosecc that we did
19:48<dpkg>somebody said fakeraid was term used for controller cards that advertise RAID functionality that is NOT supported by a hardware chip for parity. Most of these have only a BIOS ... if you use them with Debian it's suggested that you don't set a RAID in the BIOS and don't use dmraid, just use regular software RAID (ask me about <md>). see <sata faq>
19:49<jonathanpoon>I am trying to setup software raid on my linux box...
19:49<jonathanpoon>but I don't see it as an option when I'm installing
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19:50<abrotman>jonathanpoon: there's no option during partitioning ?
19:50<jonathanpoon>I don't see it...
19:50<jonathanpoon>I'm using the guided partition
19:50<abrotman>is it hte daily lenny installer or beta2 ?
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19:52<abrotman>i'm not sure if the guided partitioning does swraid
19:52<mordy_>all this boot stuff is interesting, but i wish i knew how it worked
19:53<caffn>Try manual partitioning
19:53<Lounge>mordy_: you remember how windows xp got installed?
19:53<Lounge>by using the installation cd from bootup
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19:53<mordy_>lounge - i just used a cd for that - although the last time i installed windoze, it was complicated - i used pxe
19:54*caffn can't remember his last win xp install :X
19:54<mordy_>but windoze refuses to install directly from pxe, you need to use something called windows pe which is in itself about 1G in size
19:54<mordy_>or you need to use WDS and RIS
19:54<jonathanpoon>okay..I got it..
19:54<Lounge>mordy_: these are very strange methods - they seem pretty unorthodoxed
19:54<Txt_file>caffn: but I can remember my last vista install ... yesterday
19:55<ranix>I prefer norton ghost
19:55<mordy_>hehe vista ewwww
19:55<caffn>A friend of mine has vista.. The poor guy..
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19:55<Lounge>mordy_: if you had a spare flashdrive that can fit a 700mb debian installer - you should be abled to use that to install debian
19:55<supaman>never installed either XP or vista
19:56<ranix>my girlfriend has it on her laptop
19:56<ranix>it enters standby sometimes
19:56<ranix>that's about all that can be said
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19:56<caffn>I installed win 98 on an ancient laptop a few weeks ago.. For my mum ;D
19:56<jonathanpoon>which filesystem do you all typically use? EXT3?
19:56<jonathanpoon>or XFS?
19:56<Txt_file>caffn: no linux is for low but windows for DAU
19:57<Lounge>does debian have a livecd/installer that i'm not aware of?
19:57<abrotman>ext3 unless you have a good reason
19:57<Lounge>where you can install debian from a debian livecd desktop?
19:57<abrotman>uh no
19:58*caffn likes ssh + ircII @ work.. Damn nightshifts
19:59<mordy_>gah, how do i just unmount everything?
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19:59<mordy_>i've gotten myself into a hole now :(
19:59<supaman>umont -a
20:00<mordy_>how do i force it? i get device is busy errors
20:00<Lounge>mordy_: umount /dev/hole
20:00<qq> is almost dead , at least sidux work
20:00<qq>current/ 21-Apr-2008 12:41
20:01<abrotman>qq: sidux isn't debian
20:01<caffn>Ah.. Yeah.. ur right.
20:01<caffn>Sidux is debian based...
20:01<abrotman>it's not debian
20:01<caffn>It's as much debian as ubuntu is... ;D
20:01<abrotman>the guy asked how to install debian
20:02<mordy_>still get device is busy
20:02<qq>abrotman: it may be , just put a debian kernel , and that is
20:02<Lounge>i dunno bout u gaiz - but i'm luvn the Mint! ^^
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20:02<abrotman>qq: it's not debian .. he asked how to install debian
20:02<supaman>mordy_: lsof on the device and kill the process that is accessing it
20:02<abrotman>qq: if you can't give anything close to the correct answer .. why bother?
20:02<mordy_>lsof /dev/sdb?
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20:02<supaman>mordy_: if that is the device then yes
20:03<abrotman>doesn't he want a partition ?
20:03<Lounge>mordy_: isn't your /dev/sdb mounted to ~/sdb?
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20:03<mordy_>umount ~/sdb gets the same error
20:03<Lounge>mordy_: it won't let you umount -f ~/sdb ??
20:04<caffn>Ur not actually IN that dir, are you?
20:04<mordy_>let me to lsof
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20:07<Lounge>so debain has an image for usb eh?
20:07<mordy_>lounge, yes
20:07<mordy_>but :(
20:08<abrotman>Lounge: /msg dpkg usb install
20:08<mordy_>ahh.. fixed the umount problems
20:08<caffn>Nice :)
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20:09<mordy_>i just entered umount -f -a repeatedly like a madman. it seemed to do the trick
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20:09<abrotman>uhm .. bad
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20:11<supaman>going apeshit on things usually never helps, but sometimes it does ;)
20:11<Lounge>i would say dl the usb image (am64 in your case) loops mount the image, copy everything over to a spare usb flash drive, use that drive to boot the system up for the installer
20:14<mordy_>lounge - that's what i did in the beginning- but you know my problem already - i want this to be a local install - why is a local install so difficult in debian/
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20:16*caffn missed the problem in just booting the full install cd/dvd
20:17<Lounge>mordy_: i thought you had copyed it to you 40G hdd usb stick as just an image file - not as the image its self..
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20:18<mordy_>lounge - here's exactly what i did - i copied ldlinux, vmlinux, initrd, syslinux.cfg
20:18<qq>mordy_: because , you have any local environment for that e.g. : severs for mirror , dhcp, bind, pxe ... and so on
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20:19<mordy_>qq - that didn't work for me:(
20:20<qq>try again until it will work
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20:22<qq>that is !
20:22<Lounge>mordy_: this box you're trying to install debian on, is it going to be a server or a desktop?
20:22<mordy_>lounge, perhaps a thin client
20:22<abrotman>what is mordy_ trying to do?
20:23<mordy_>abrotman, just trying to install
20:23<abrotman>obviously in some rube goldberg way
20:23<mordy_>who's that?
20:23<Lounge>abrotman: i think installing debian on a machine that has no cdrom(s) just usb
20:23<abrotman>!usb install
20:23<dpkg>it has been said that usb install is Yes, it is possible to boot Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key, as long as your computer BIOS can boot from usb: Details in the Installation Guide , see "usb stick" section for images. (Older, outdated articles and
20:24*variable test
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20:24<mordy_>abrotman - my problem is this - according to the debian site, you can add an iso installation image to the usb stick, and the installer will read from that iso - but i'm not having luck with that
20:24<Txt_file>I think go to a shop and buy a usb-cd-device would be faster AND EASIER
20:24*variable test
20:25<abrotman>variable: stop
20:25<abrotman>mordy_: did you read the above ?
20:25<variable>sorry for that
20:25<mordy_>abrotman - yes
20:25<Nyaa>Oh wow. RAID on Linux is such a shithole. Give me my GEOM.
20:26<Lounge>gotta treat an image like you wold trat a zip or a rar - its gotta be extracted first in order to do what its gotta do
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20:26<Lounge>otherwise its just a lonely container file
20:27<caffn>Or just mount the imagefile.. :P
20:28<Lounge>now if there is a proggie that can find the image/iso and then auto mount it and use it, that would be cool too
20:28<Lounge>that's what i thought you were tying to do with busybox
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20:30<mordy_>lounge - i was simply trying to find out if the problem was that the installer did not detect my USB drive - or something else -and i figured out it was something else
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20:31<Lounge>mordy_: but the installer is what baffled me - was it the actaully debian installer or the busybox
20:31-!-bane [~bane@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20:31<mordy_>lounge -the installer - and it's still giving me problems
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20:32<Lounge>mordy_: the *debian* installer?
20:34<mordy_>lounge, yes
20:34<Lounge>lol then that's wierd; the debian installer can't find its self
20:34<mordy_>lounge -exactly
20:37<Lounge>all the installer files and packages that it needs to install onto the hdd can't be found from the same sourse from withere installer is; its as if it thinks they're all from a cdrom
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20:38<mordy_>gah, wtf? why is busybox giving me an 'invalid argument' now?
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20:39<Lounge>that's odd if its an image made for a usb then it shouldn't gripe about *its source* coming from a usb
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20:40<Lounge>is it still looking for everything in a cdrom device? i wonder
20:41<mordy_>lounge, maybe i'll just download new installation images, although i doubt that will at all help - i guess it would complain if the images were bad - no?
20:42-!-Guest162 [] has quit []
20:42<Lounge>mordy_: well - usually cdrom images are for utf formated drive(cdroms) but i'm not sure what format it is for usb sticks
20:42<Lounge>or if it really matters
20:43<mordy_>lounge - look here and see
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20:43<Lounge>i need a passphrase for that site :|
20:44<mordy_>just use anonymous i guess
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20:46<Lounge>oh that's why just change the ftp:// tp http://
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20:46<Lounge>mordy let me ask you - you said your system is amd64 right?
20:47<mordy_>lounge - the target is not
20:47<mordy_>the one i'm using is
20:47<mordy_>i'm thinking that may be a problem as well
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20:48<Lounge>well the installer image for an amd64 should *not* be i386
20:48<Lounge>i386 is intel only
20:48<qq>and too ;)
20:49<mordy_>hehe, i'm using amd64 with an intel chip though :p
20:49<caffn>Yeah, amd64 is amd and intel..
20:49<Lounge>oh ok then i guess i386 will be
20:49<caffn>They should rename it to x64
20:50<mordy_>caffn, they have a em64t kernel -
20:51<Lounge>well if your chip is 64bit then i guess x64 is what it needs to be
20:51<mordy_>gah, how do i erase a disk completel? i've done so much crap on this disk
20:51<mordy_>i just want everything removed :(
20:52<caffn>All my aptitude is showing are i386, 686, amd64, and xen and vserver
20:52<Lounge>well nothing actually gets removed but you can overwirte the hdd with all zeros and then reformat
20:52<mordy_>caffn, em64t is a 'transition package'
20:52<mordy_>lounge dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb?
20:53<caffn>Hmz.. Can't find it ;(
20:53<qq>mordy_: which disk ?
20:53<Lounge>like this: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb conv=notrunc,noerror
20:53<mordy_>this external disk. i don't care much for it anyway - it'sbeen dropped more times than i can count
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20:54<mordy_>how long is this supposed to take?
20:54<Lounge>if you want to see a progress durning execution then...
20:55<Lounge>use dcfldd instead of dd
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20:55<Lounge>apt-get install dcfldd
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20:56<mordy_>can't find it
20:56<mordy_>maybe dcfl-dd?
20:57<qq>dcfldd - enhanced version of dd for forensics and security
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20:57<Lounge>if your using a linux to do this, not busybox then you should check sdb for badblocks first
20:57<Lounge>cant find dcfldd, what!
20:58<caffn>EM64T and AMD64 seem to be one kernel now, since 2.6.17
20:58<mordy_>hehe yes
20:58<Lounge>the debian repos don't have that?
20:58<mordy_>lounge - i don't think so :(
20:58<Lounge>apt-cache search dcfldd
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20:58<caffn>So.. AMD64 is the kernel to go if you have x64 ;D
20:59<Txt_file>caffn: that's right
20:59<qq>Get:1 sid/main dcfldd [36.4kB]
20:59<Simon_42>and if you use the hd-media installer you'll need an .iso on your stick too. The installer itself does not include the needed packages.
21:00<mordy_>what does an lda flag mean?
21:00<mordy_>ahh sid
21:01<qq> apt-cache search dcfldd
21:02<caffn>Stuff to read, I like
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21:03<Lounge>mordy_: you find dcfldd yet?
21:03<mordy_>gah, why is my mount read only?
21:03<mordy_>lounge - no :(
21:03<amphi>mordy_: it's an iso image?
21:04<mordy_>no - it's a USB drive
21:04<mordy_>i guess i should have added a writeable flag - but i can read/write from root - i just don't know why it's read-only for use
21:04<amphi>can you remount it rw?
21:04<mordy_>meh, i'll try
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21:05<Lounge>you can type "mount -o remount,rw /dev/<device>"
21:05<Lounge>will remount it as read/write
21:06<Lounge>but ya still have to be root in order to write on it
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21:10<mordy_>gah, this is absurd
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21:16<newsense>if i have lvm setup will my partitions grow if needed ?
21:17<abrotman>on their own ?
21:17<newsense>say a partition gets full
21:17<abrotman>not on its own
21:18<mordy_>abrotman - perhaps the syslinux.cfg file is missing some appends? although i don't know what else i can append to it
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21:18<newsense>whats a good comand to show partition table in size not blocks
21:18*abrotman thought the usb installation instrucgtions were pretty straight forward
21:19<abrotman>newsense: df
21:19<newsense>cool thats it
21:19<mordy_>abrotman - they just don't work - the installer keeps looking around for an iso image- despite the fact that it's right on the USB drive
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21:24<snogglethorpe>hi, I might buy a new system soon, and wanna install lenny
21:24<snogglethorpe>what's the scuttlebutt on the "lenny beta 2" installer?
21:25<snogglethorpe>[I tried it, or maybe its predecessor, a few weeks ago on a VM, and it worked great]
21:25<snogglethorpe>[probably I'll buy a phenom system using the amd 780g chipset, ... ]
21:26-!-zevarito_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:26<snogglethorpe>[so would wanna install the amd64 distro]
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21:27<mordy_>gah, why is it that when i think i finally have no more problems things start breaking down?
21:27<Txt_file>snogglethorpe: where is the problem?? I have never heared that debian don't work with an AMD780-chipset
21:27<mordy_>anyone try the USB install?
21:27<snogglethorpe>Txt_file: no problem, just mentioning
21:28<snogglethorpe>Txt_file: I presume the kernel in lenny beta 2 is reasonably recent, so should work
21:28<Lounge>mordy_: maybe try the cd image instead see if that installs from your usb stick
21:29<mordy_>lounge - haven't we tried that before?
21:29<mordy_>the cd image won't even boot :(
21:29<Txt_file>snogglethorpe: if not .. my bad :)
21:29<snogglethorpe>Lounge: actually I read a cool thing in the installer manual, where the installer will search all block devices looking for *.iso files
21:29<snogglethorpe>Txt_file: ugh... :-/
21:29<mordy_>snogglethorpe - it's not so cool. it doesn't work
21:29<snogglethorpe>mordy_: oh really?
21:29<snogglethorpe>mordy_: whoops
21:30<mordy_>snogglethorpe - i'm trying it right now
21:30<snogglethorpe>mordy_: so what does it do?
21:30<snogglethorpe>mordy_: maybe it doesn't consider the usb stick an acceptable device?
21:30<mordy_>it's just not working. what i did manage to do was copy over an image from my stick to the local hd - but that was the wrong iso - and now i can't see to do it again because i can't mount anything
21:30<mordy_>but i tried going ahead with the iso - it detected it, but it failed to read anything from it
21:31<mordy_>i'm tempted just to give up and do netinstall - but i don't think i want to throw in the towel jsut yet
21:31<snogglethorpe>mordy_: i'm kinda confused about what state you're in
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21:32<snogglethorpe>mordy_: are you restarting the install from scratch, but it's still not able to mount anything?
21:32<mordy_>snogglethorpe - what i did manage to do was get into the shell in the installer and copy an iso from my usb stick to the local drive - but that doesn't work anymore for some strange reason
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21:33<mordy_>and what's even weirder is that i can mount my usb stick but i can't mount my local disk - but then i guess the installer mounted it somewhere already anyway- although id on't knwo where
21:33<Lounge>is anyone else has been experiencing the same porblem as mordy then its more likely a bug on debian's end
21:34<snogglethorpe>mordy_: wacky ... so what is the state that's changing i wonder...
21:34-!-adema [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<mordy_>i have no idea :((
21:34<snogglethorpe>mordy_: a reinstall shouldn't be different from the last reinstall..
21:34<snogglethorpe>mordy_: ugh
21:34<snogglethorpe>mordy_: is it lenny beta 2?
21:34<mordy_>snogglethorpe - no etch
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21:35<snogglethorpe>mordy_: hmm maybe you should try LB2...
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21:35<snogglethorpe>mordy_: from my little experience installing in a VM, it works great on average
21:35<mordy_>snogglethorpe - i'm wondering that perhaps i'm not doing something right with the disk - but if that were the case, then it would complain about it - no?
21:35<mordy_>snogglethorpe - is this the lenny distro on
21:36<mordy_>gah, i'm losing sleep - literally - over all of this :(
21:37<mordy_>snogglehorpe - what version do i download? netinst?
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21:37<newsense>if i wanted to use lvm with seperate /home /tmp /usr /var partitions i would make those logical partitions ?
21:37<Lounge>mordy_: it has to be an issue with the NSA trying to eclips you from installing your evildo'er linux - therefore preventing you from blogging your radical truths
21:38<newsense>or all physical partitions
21:38<mordy_>lounge - the mossad
21:38<snogglethorpe>mordy_: i dunno... I'd download the biggest thing I can get to fit on my media
21:38<snogglethorpe>mordy_: cause you never know if the network setup's gonna run into problems or something
21:38<snogglethorpe>mordy_: how big is your usb stick?
21:39<snogglethorpe>mordy_: oh btw, did you boot off the usb stick too?
21:39<mordy_>snogglethorpe - i have one that's 40G - it's an external one
21:39<snogglethorpe>mordy_: wow!
21:39<mordy_>snogglethorpe - i'm able to boot off it - yes
21:39<snogglethorpe>that's insanely huge
21:39<mordy_>it's just an HD with an adapter, it's not flash
21:39<mordy_>calm down
21:39<mordy_>i don't want you to get a heart attack or anything. you're a nice guy
21:40<mordy_>but i take that back if you're ever mean to me, FYI
21:40<snogglethorpe>mordy_: i was thinking when I buy my new system, I'd get a 2gb usb stick and ask the shop to copy the installer to it...
21:40<mordy_>snoggle - i'm generlally wary of flash media for some reason - don't know why
21:40<mordy_>best thing i like are HDDs
21:40<snogglethorpe>mordy_: yeah... but semes lke it should be ok for this one-time use
21:40<snogglethorpe>mordy_: i agree
21:40<snogglethorpe>mordy_: they feel more predicatble
21:41<snogglethorpe>mordy_: I'm always afraid flash is gonna suddenly suicide on me
21:41<mordy_>snoggle - but only if they aren't the targets of your rage :(
21:41<snogglethorpe>mordy_: (though I guess HDs can do that too...)
21:41<mordy_>snoggle -i've had an experience with the latter
21:41<mordy_>also HDDs can be saved - flash can't
21:41<snogglethorpe>any warning?
21:42<mordy_>snoggle- there was warning - but iw as too pissed to do anything about it
21:42<snogglethorpe>my current HD has been doing more and more resets in the middle of random use...
21:42<mordy_>snoggle - i live in the desert with no air conditioning and loud neighbors. undeerstand
21:42<snogglethorpe>no crashes or lost data yet, but I'm getting nervous
21:43<mordy_>is there something better than gfarted?
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21:43<Lounge>whats wrong with the gfart?
21:43<Lounge>i like to gfart once in awhile
21:43<mordy_>i don't know - i guess it doesn't do what it expects me to do
21:44<mordy_>fdisk? isn't that windows?
21:44<caffn>Screw gui's
21:44<caffn>Fdisk is also windows
21:44<caffn>Uhh unix
21:44<caffn>Gfart is only a gui for fdisk
21:44<snogglethorpe>mordy_: btw
21:44<snogglethorpe>mordy_: what partitioning are you gonna use?
21:44<snogglethorpe>mordy_: reading the manual, it sounds like LVM is the way to go
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21:45<mordy_>snoggle - for the installation or for the USB? i don't know much about linux partitions
21:45<snogglethorpe>mordy_: oh i mean for the installation
21:45<Lounge>with LVM shouldn't you first fill the hdd with random bytes first?
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21:45<snogglethorpe>mordy_: the usb presumably you use ahwatever it has on it already
21:45<mordy_>not that i know much more about ms partitions :(
21:45<snogglethorpe>Lounge: hmm, no that's _encrypted_ lvm...
21:45<Lounge>aww yes
21:46<Lounge>then its all zeros then
21:46<snogglethorpe>Lounge: I don't care about encryption, just wanna void partition madness
21:47<Lounge>well its always good practice to do a zero wipe first before you format
21:47<snogglethorpe>Lounge: well i'm gonna buy a new disk anyway...
21:47<snogglethorpe>one of the most annoying things about a new system is trying to decide how big and how many partitions to make, which is a pain mostly because it's more or less irrevocable... but it sounds like LVM solves that
21:47<Lounge>should zero whipe that too to clear any thing from the surplus sectors
21:48<mordy_>i miss the US - over here you can't get anything good - and whatever you can get is triple the price - and this is despite the fact that they make many chips her
21:48<snogglethorpe>mordy_: where's here?
21:48<snogglethorpe>mordy_: hm
21:48-!-Blacker47 [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:48<mordy_>about 30% of our exports are chips
21:48<mordy_>hmm... 40% actually
21:49<mordy_>the other 40% are weapons :p
21:49<snogglethorpe>mordy_: israel's famous for chip design, but i didn't know they made them too
21:49<snogglethorpe>mordy_: well at least for the intel thing
21:49<mordy_>snogglethorpe - they make them here - then they're shipped to china for assembly
21:49<snogglethorpe>mordy_: seems silly
21:49<mordy_>snoggle - it's all about money
21:50<snogglethorpe>mordy_: the downside of u.s. cheapness is that... well there's an effect of everything being butt cheap
21:50<snogglethorpe>mordy_: you get the walmart syndrome
21:51<snogglethorpe>mordy_: people so obsessed with low cost that they're willing to throw out everything else good in pursuit of that
21:51<mordy_>meh, you have that here too :p
21:51<mordy_>not to such an extent though
21:51<Lounge>yea its buttcheap=killing the mom&pop business
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21:53<snogglethorpe>hmm so nobody's screamed about the lenny beta 2 installer, so I guess that mean's all peaches & cream!
21:53-!-q0q [~q0q@] has joined #debian
21:54<mordy_>i don't have such a quick connection don't know how long it would take me to download
21:54-!-alephnull_ [~alok@] has joined #debian
21:54<mordy_>i also need a download accelerator etc. - i need a gui one as well - one which monitors links etc.
21:54<mordy_>it's annoying -but you don't really feel like console-handling long urls
21:55<Lounge>yes!!! macross frontier epp.15 is availble with subtittles - woot!
21:55<mordy_>how do you search for something in busybox?
21:55<mordy_>snogglethorpe - know anything about busybox?
21:55<snogglethorpe>mordy_: hmm i hacked a lot on it, but...
21:55<snogglethorpe>mordy_: that was 5 years ago or so
21:56<snogglethorpe>mordy_: i mean, basically it's just like the normal command line, just smaller and a bit weirder
21:56<snogglethorpe>mordy_: but the same general tools exist
21:56<mordy_>yeah, but i can't do find / -iname
21:56<mordy_>how do i search for a file?
21:56<mordy_>for example, how do i search for all iso's?
21:57<snogglethorpe>mordy_: find . -name '*.iso' -print
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21:57<snogglethorpe>mordy_: btw, the .iso should be in the top-level dir or one-level-down for the installer to find it apparently
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21:58<mordy_>yeah, it's in the top-level
21:58<mordy_>maybe that's the problem though - the top level for the disk isn't the top level for the filesystem
21:58<mordy_>hmm.. doesn't return anything
21:59<Lounge>i need to add a ttf file but i forgot where to place it, anybody?
21:59-!-alephnull [~alok@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:59<mordy_>ahh... worked
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22:00<mordy_>hehe, - i did find / -name .. blaj
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22:01<mordy_>gah, how do i change permissions in here?
22:02<snogglethorpe>Lounge: add it ... where?
22:02<snogglethorpe>Lounge: you can just stick in ~/.fonts...
22:03<mordy_>any clues?
22:05<snogglethorpe>mordy_: frankly I'm lost as to what's going on
22:05-!-AnglaChel [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:05<Lounge>snogglethorpe: i added the truetype font to /use/share/fonts/custom-fonts
22:06<Lounge>custom-fonts i just created
22:06<snogglethorpe>Lounge: dunno how that will work with debian's font stuff
22:06<Lounge>but i'll actually move to ~/.fonts instead
22:07<Lounge>forgot about it there
22:07<snogglethorpe>Lounge: on average though, it seem sbest to avoid plonking stuff down in /usr
22:07<Lounge>snogglethorpe: thnx for the 411
22:08<Lounge>411=info or help
22:08-!-freealan [] has joined #debian
22:09<Lounge>411 was the oldschool wikipedia over the phone - cost 75 cents per call
22:10<Lounge>mostly just for number-directory listings from a ditzy operator
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22:12<Lounge>those were the days - before the cell phone boom - when people were actually driving home from work first, and then calling their friends
22:12<caffn>Yeah.. Not getting called when you were driving ;D
22:13<caffn>Also not being able to call yer friends when they were late.. again.. :P
22:13<Lounge>that and audio casette tapes were in
22:13<q0q>Lounge: install(ed) msttcorefonts x-ttcidfont-conf ?
22:13<caffn>Yeah, casette tapes :D
22:13<Lounge>oh yea i got all that
22:14<caffn>Taping music frm the radio ;D
22:14<Lounge>i actually cheated and downloaded all the medibuntu stuff as well as all the ubuntu restricted crap thereof lol
22:15<caffn>I don't like ubuntu.. @work, people ask: "What OS do you run?" "Linux" "Oh, ubuntu!" "No, debian" "Huh? Linux is ubuntu, right?" :p
22:16<mordy_>oh great. i finally gave in and tried to do a netinstall - and it cant' find an ethernet card :|
22:16<snogglethorpe>caffn: then you push them down the stairs, right?
22:16<snogglethorpe>caffn: (after dragging them to the stairway)
22:16<caffn>No, i just shake my had, sadly
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22:17<caffn>I could just hang em with an UTP-cable in the datacenter ;D
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22:17<RIVE>Hi, good evenning.
22:17<caffn>Hello there
22:17<RIVE>Hi caffn.
22:19<snogglethorpe>hmm here's another question concerning my planned new system: is a cd/dvd drive really necessary these days?
22:20<caffn>Nope. You can install from usb
22:20<snogglethorpe>seems like you could install off a usb stick and use that for data transfer in many cases too
22:20<caffn>Yeah.. Use usb to install, and LAN for data-transfer
22:20-!-ioport [~ioport@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:20<snogglethorpe>caffn: oh btw, when putting stuff on the usb stick to boot from, how do you make it bootable?
22:20-!-dyfrgi [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:21<snogglethorpe>caffn: I'm thinking if I get the shop to do it, they'll hae some windows system
22:21<RIVE>But, not all people use USB to save data, a DVD drive is still necesary, i think.
22:21<snogglethorpe>RIVE: for what? backups?
22:21<snogglethorpe>RIVE: if you run windows, I guess you might buy software on cd/dvd at the store
22:21<caffn>Hm.. I think that if you dd the iso to the usb-stick, it'll write the bootsector as well. Maybe you need to toggle the bootable flag (fdisk) also.
22:21<snogglethorpe>RIVE: but for debian...
22:22<RIVE>Mostly, and to test DVD/CD - live distros :-)
22:22<snogglethorpe>caffn: hmm how do you dd in windows.. ?
22:22-!-Txt_file1 is now known as Txt-file
22:22<caffn>I believe there's a dd-for-windows around somewhere
22:22<snogglethorpe>maybe I should just find a linux shop and get a real install set ... :-/
22:22<snogglethorpe>(likely to be etch though...dunno how old that kernel is)
22:23<caffn>Who cares.. apt-get dist-upgrade ;D
22:23<RIVE> 2.6.18-6-686 etch kernel.
22:23<snogglethorpe>caffn: yeah but it's got to boot right the first time, and my planned system chipset is quite new, so...
22:23-!-eno [] has joined #debian
22:23<snogglethorpe>caffn: I hae a slight worry that an older kernel might not worko
22:24<caffn>Hm. Hm..
22:24<caffn>What chipset? :)
22:24<snogglethorpe>caffn: amd 780G
22:24<Lounge>should get into the habbit and make aliases for terminal cmds
22:24<snogglethorpe>caffn: I think it was released, hmm, february or so?
22:24<snogglethorpe>caffn: not sure
22:24<Txt-file>snogglethorpe: you can also use etch and a own compiled .26-kernel
22:25<caffn>Or just connect the hd of the new machine in an old machine, start the install, and finish it in the new machine ;D
22:26<snogglethorpe>caffn: the old system is a scsi dsik thogh..
22:26<caffn>Ouch ;D
22:26<snogglethorpe>caffn: and I have this huge old scsi controller card which probably won't even fit in the new machine
22:26-!-superjet_busy [~superjet@] has joined #debian
22:26<caffn>Lol ;D Nah, thats a problem then ;P
22:26<snogglethorpe>[I think typical micro-atx cases only work with half-height pci cards]
22:26<snogglethorpe>caffn: yeah...
22:27<snogglethorpe>the annoying thing is that's only this initial install period where things are an issue
22:27<snogglethorpe>after that you can just do whatever
22:27<snogglethorpe>but the install needs to work first
22:27-!-das_maze [] has joined #debian
22:27<snogglethorpe>hmm i wonder if there's a shop where they'd let you plug in everything in the shop and test it there
22:27<caffn>Hm, i see on the forums that 2.6.18 does support the 78~0G
22:28<snogglethorpe>I'd pay a 5% premium for that
22:28<snogglethorpe>caffn: oh really? cool!
22:28<snogglethorpe>caffn: which forum was it?
22:29<caffn>4th last msg
22:29<snogglethorpe>caffn: cool, thanks
22:29<snogglethorpe>heh, I like these messages " what do you guys think of that setup (I've already got it ordered and being shipped)?"
22:30<caffn>"It sucks" ;D
22:30<caffn>It's kinda useless to ask.. Should ask it before ordering ;D
22:31-!-dyfrgi [] has joined #debian
22:31<snogglethorpe>though I find myself not actually caring so much... people seemed so obsessed with getting the last 5% of performance out their system, it's all kind of ridiculous
22:31-!-xbj9000 [] has joined #debian
22:31<RIVE>Ridicuolus, but fun.
22:31<snogglethorpe>I care about 10 faster, but 20% faster, well... whatever
22:31<caffn>Yeah, it's not like you'll notice when browsing the web or something ;D
22:32<snogglethorpe>=> 10 times
22:32<caffn>They'll buy a quadcore with 4 Gigs of ram, and all they do is chat on MSN and browse the web ;D
22:32<Lounge>lol my system is BIGGER than yours!!! that kind thing?
22:32<snogglethorpe>caffn: I actually wanna do stuff like raytracing too, but when I think about it, frankly, if it takes 2 hours instead of 1.5 hours, well I'll live
22:33<caffn>Yeah.. :)
22:33<Hideo>would clusters help raytracing?
22:33<Lounge>k time to go
22:33-!-Lounge [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:33<caffn>That was fast.. :P
22:33<snogglethorpe>Hideo: seems like it, ... RT is the classic easily parallizable problem
22:33<Txt-file>caffn: if he has to much money
22:34<caffn>Yeah, true
22:34<amphi>Hideo: ray-tracing can be hard to parallelize, I think - povray is having problems, mainly with photons and radiosity IIRC
22:34-!-dasmaze [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:34<Hideo>2 different answers =P
22:35-!-superlinux [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:35<snogglethorpe>Hideo: if you're doing photon mapping, you'd need to probably generate teh photon map first and distrribute it to all the processors being used for raytracing, but the RT is the really slow part, and it's easy to parallize
22:36<snogglethorpe>[god my spelling seems insane]
22:36<snogglethorpe>i dunno about povray's codebase of course
22:37<Hideo>I'm completely ignorant on the subject, I've always thought RT has to do with/depends on graphic cards
22:37-!-knoppix_ [] has joined #debian
22:37<snogglethorpe>Hideo: hmm no
22:38-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest178
22:38<amphi>no, it's mostly fpu stuff
22:38<snogglethorpe>Hideo: you can use a gpu as a processor of course, and implement your RT there :-)
22:38<q0q>RT realtime ?
22:38<Hideo>I see
22:38*Hideo goes wikipedia
22:39-!-Guest178 is now known as WuT
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22:40<snogglethorpe>Hideo: but by far the biggest bottleneck in RT is usually ray intersection searching, which afaik is not something a typical gpu processor is particilarly good at
22:40<Txt-file>I say only Cell-cpu
22:40<snogglethorpe>Txt-file: is the cell actually good though?
22:40-!-ted [~generalfx@] has joined #debian
22:41<snogglethorpe>shit earthquake
22:41-!-Seyfer [~seyfer@] has joined #debian
22:41<snogglethorpe>the wohle building is shaking
22:41<Hideo>where are you?
22:41<amphi>snogglethorpe: heh - where are you?
22:41<Txt-file>I have heared that 1 PS3 is so good like 7 or 8 PC's
22:41<snogglethorpe>it's huge movement, but very slowww everything's swaying
22:41<Hideo>get out
22:41<Seyfer>Ole Ole!!!!!!!!, jejejejeje Speack Spanish??
22:41<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
22:42<Hideo>snogglethorpe: might wanna get out of the building?
22:42<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
22:42<amphi>snogglethorpe: ping ;)
22:42<Seyfer>gracias, los amo!! jajajajaj
22:42<snogglethorpe>Hideo: no, this happens fairly often
22:43<db>hello wonderful people
22:43-!-aredhel [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:43<Txt-file>hello database (db)
22:43-!-ted is now known as ted_feng
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22:44<snogglethorpe>Txt-file: hard to say, but I rarely see anybody talking about the cell that isn't severely clue-challenged, so it's kinda hard to get a real impression of the thing
22:44<db>how are you txt-file?
22:44<WuT>kind of silly q ~ anyone familiar with video structured as stream.str along with various .xm* and/or .dbf files?
22:44<snogglethorpe>Txt-file: sony's famous for very unbalanced systems
22:44-!-monom [] has quit [Quit: BitchX for president.]
22:44<snogglethorpe>Txt-file: and with the amount of silly hype flying around with the ps3
22:44<RIVE>Hi db.
22:44-!-ted_feng is now known as ted
22:44<snogglethorpe>Txt-file: I tend to be suspicious of anything I see unless I trust the person saying it
22:44<Txt-file>snogglethorpe: I have read this in a BOIC-forum
22:45<db>rive: greetings
22:45<RIVE>Cheers! :-)
22:45-!-ted is now known as ted_feng
22:45<db>how is everyone?
22:46*RIVE updating Etch in his home server.
22:46-!-tchaikov [~tchaikov@] has joined #debian
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22:47<db>what are your opinions of other distros? mainly finnix and archlinux?
22:47<snogglethorpe>db: hmm what answer do you expect?
22:47<db>finnix being a debian livecd ( , and arch being in many ways simple. like debian is.. well, minus the ubuntu camp.
22:48<dpkg>A little off-topic conversation is okay here and there, but not too much, and not when the channel's busy, and not if it's your primary reason for being here. please join #debian-offtopic on
22:48<RIVE>I didnt try any of those.
22:48<snogglethorpe>arch linux has a pretty dodgy rep though
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22:48<db>well, i am working on my own distro, and out of all of the various camps.. i choose you all. time and time again.
22:49<db>you all dont have the bs that other folks have.
22:49<Txt-file>db: I have never become a working gentoo
22:49<Txt-file>db: lfs??
22:49<db>finnix is live cd, no x, debian testing,
22:50<db>lfs is nice, but it is not debian ^^
22:50<Txt-file>lfs is you own stuff
22:50<db>been there.
22:51<db>but that is not something that most atm are ready to do..
22:51<db>:-) i wish we could start giving everyone buildroot
22:51<db>and letting them pick their kernels,
22:51<db>and set them on their way.
22:51<db>but again, i only posed the question to learn your perspectives, and hopefully your insights..
22:52-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:52<Txt-file>db: Have fun!
22:52<db>i need to upgrade from etch, and you all are pleasant folks while i do that :-)
22:53<Txt-file>db: make it not to simple ... that's the reason why I have debian sid and noch ubuntu ... it is too simple
22:53<caffn>Sid on the desktop?
22:53<caffn>I rather use lenny.. Bit less unstable ;D
22:54*RIVE with Lenny in desktop too.
22:54<Txt-file>caffn: sid is stable enough
22:54<caffn>Hm.. No strange bugs?
22:54*caffn considers using sid.
22:55<Txt-file>where is the fun when I have a system what iwill only working and which does not have any failure :()
22:55-!-WuT [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:55<caffn>True, true.. Needs some exitement sometimes ;D
22:55<snogglethorpe>caffn: sid's fine
22:55<Txt-file>caffn: I found (unti yet) no problem/bug/etc
22:56<snogglethorpe>caffn: honestly, the frequency of showstopper bugs in debian unstable is _very_ low
22:56<caffn>Ah, thats nice to know :)
22:56<Txt-file>caffn: butt wait ... one big thing
22:56<snogglethorpe>caffn: it's been years since I encountered one, despite updating daily
22:56-!-emachado_away is now known as emachado
22:56<Txt-file>I don't get my 2nd pc so that it work
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22:57<Txt-file>the xserver has any problem .. even if I have installed 5minutes ahead
22:57<RIVE>snogglethorpe, mi iPod don't work well in Lenny, i can't play the music from it.
22:57<caffn>Hm, yeah.. I've been running sid in a vm for a while now, seems fine to me. Just some trouble with the xorg, but hey, thats vm ;D
22:57<Txt-file>rive: and in etch it work?
22:58<RIVE>I only use Etch in the server.
22:58<caffn>I have lenny on the fileserver and desktop.
22:58<RIVE>But it stop working since the las upgarde.
22:59<RIVE>I think is a gstreamer problem.
23:00<Txt-file>my VPS has etch
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23:02<caffn>2.5 hours to go, and I can go home and sleep..
23:02<caffn>Freaking nightshifts.
23:03<Txt-file>caffn: what's the time?
23:04<caffn>5 in the morning
23:04<Txt-file>central europe!
23:04<Txt-file>or afrika
23:04<caffn>Europe, around Amsterdam to be precise
23:05<RIVE>22:04 in Torreón, Coahuila, México.
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23:12<Txt-file>nobody any detachable problem?
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23:15<caffn>Hm.. I'm hungry? :P
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23:32<raginghard>Hi, i'm having trouble building openssh-chroot, because configure can't find libcrypto. I've installed the lasted version of OpenSSL, but the test for RAND_add() is failing. This is part of rand.h, but this is not on my system. What package is this apart of?
23:33-!-esaym [] has joined #debian
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23:36<raginghard>Why isn't this packaged with openssl?
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23:38-!-RIVE [~cesar@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
23:39<caffn>I dunno
23:40-!-smarenka [~smarenka@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:40*raginghard rages
23:40<raginghard>Anyway, thanks.
23:40<raginghard>It builds now.
23:41<caffn>Nice :D
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23:45<RIVE>My desktop joust freeze, i'm trying to read the logs, but don't know where to start.
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 19 00:00:13 2008